How to pray effectively (discipleship, Jesus, & practical prayer)

From the stage at The Gathering Faith Assembly Church, Sam Edwards and Anthony Serino discuss the shift from early emotional excitement in Christianity to a sober, serious, daily faith that endures when feelings fade trusting God’s unchanging nature and recognizing His guidance more clearly in hindsight.

They explore how to balance expectancy with disappointment by recalibrating what believers think God “owes” them, bringing disappointment to God, and pursuing maturity without losing childlike hope. The episode also introduces the podcast’s new name, The Fifth Gospel, emphasizing that a Christian’s life may be the only gospel others see and should actively reflect the teachings of Jesus.

A major focus is practical prayer: following the Lord’s Prayer as a model, setting aside intentional “quality time” with God, engaging in worship and Scripture meditation, listening, interceding for others, and praying for personal needs without demanding specific outcomes pairing faith with action and discernment.

Timestamps

00:00 Taking Faith Seriously
 01:54 When Feelings Fade
 03:06 Invisible Thread Guidance
 04:41 Expectancy vs. Disappointment
 09:46 Feeling God’s Presence
 10:59 The Holy Spirit Explained
 16:49 Fifth Gospel Vision
 20:37 Practical Discipleship Tools
 26:27 Why Prayer Comes First
 29:30 Building a Prayer Life
 30:58 Worship First
 31:53 Kingdom and Will
 32:27 Daily Bread and Forgiveness
 33:32 From Checklist to Relationship
 34:34 Build a Prayer Routine
 36:06 Scripture and Stillness
 37:20 Posture and Spiritual Focus
 40:25 Types of Prayer
 41:54 Quality Time with God
 45:11 Asking Without Control
 50:30 Prayer and Practical Action
 53:37 Intercession for Others
 56:09 Detachment and Eternal Perspective
 58:15 Three-Point Summary
 59:48 Closing Prayer

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When the disciples went to Jesus and they said, teach us, they didn't say teach us how to cast out demons. They didn't say teach us how to raise the dead. They said teach us how to pray.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

There's been plenty of nights where I'm on my hands and knees weeping, crying out to God.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

People have felt the oppression of the enemy, and yet they don't know what it is to feel the filling of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Practical and the supernatural, I think when you realize that both of them coexist in a really beautiful, cohesive way, the supernatural becomes ordinary for you, which is a beautiful place to be.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

If we go into prayer with the end in mind, it's like we're treating him like a genie. God, I need this thing. Please do this for me in this way. Re-center who you are that is so self-centered or so world-centered back on him. God, you are so good. Holy is your name.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Through it all, that piece that transcends all understanding has been there. And every single time it's like the thread is invisible until I'm at the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

And then he's like, Your life is the fifth gospel. Your life is the manifestation of Jesus living inside of you. And we are meant to carry out his teachings, his words, and then the action that goes behind it. And so that's why I'm really excited about calling this the fifth gospel because we want to empower believers to be able to walk in the reality of who Jesus says that they are and the fulfillment of what he did on the cross and in his resurrection.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

So this is a good time to mention a change that we've had. I just heard you talk about uh the scriptures, gospel of Luke. Um, gospel is now in the name of our podcast. It's the fifth gospel. And people are probably wondering why the fifth gospel? I thought it was creator and co. Well, to make a long story short, when I first started this project, I was doing it on my own because I wanted to help Christian entrepreneurs bring Jesus into the marketplace and do it boldly. Um, but then when I met you, I was like, wow, this goes way deeper. And it's empowering to realize the necessity for discipleship. And what I've always been interested in is the practical protocols, the systems. And I know so I think sometimes people um don't like to do that with scripture or or or spiritual things, but I have no doubt that Jesus taught his disciples in very practical ways. I mean, he told stories and metaphors for a reason, but I think it's at the end of John when he says, if we put everything that Jesus had done, yeah, there wouldn't be enough space for all the people.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

The world wouldn't be able to contain all the books. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

So here we are, the fifth gospel. That's the new name of the podcast. Yeah. What is what is the fifth gospel to you?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I love it. We when we first talked about it, I looked up the fifth gospel to see if there was a fifth gospel already. And apparently there is some extra biblical writing.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yeah, don't look it up, don't look it up. It just listen to what we say.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

This is not what we're talking about. But when we look at the example of Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, we see his life that's lived. We see that he doesn't just live a life and then just say to everybody, okay, I'm God, go do what I said. He goes and he calls 12 disciples. He goes and he sends out the 72 disciples, and he says, I've showed you what to do, I've given you the teachings, I've given you the example. Now go and do it. I want you to go out and heal the sick. I want you to cleanse the lepers. I want you to raise the dead. I want you to cast out demons. He said, As you have freely received from him, now freely give. And so it wasn't just that he said, Go and talk about me. He said, Go live this out. And so for me, the fifth gospel is the revelation to us that we are meant to live out the gospel of Jesus. He gave us the teachings, he gave us the instruction. Now let's go live it out. So we have the gospels. We're not pretending that we're adding to them in any way, shape, or form, but we are saying, okay, now go do something with it. Your life is the fifth gospel. Your life is the manifestation of Jesus living inside of you. And we are meant to carry out his teachings, his words, and then the action that goes behind it. And so that's why I'm really excited about calling this the fifth gospel, because we want to empower believers to be able to walk in the reality of who Jesus says that they are and the fulfillment of what he did on the cross and in his resurrection.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

I love that because and this is the whole like excitement around the fifth gospel for me is that I've realized most people haven't read the Bible. Yeah, most people don't know the good news. Yeah. And our lives as Christians might be the only experience that person has of the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

That's so good.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

And that's also part of the seriousness of this thing, this faith. You know, it's like take it seriously because not only your life depends on it, but the stranger that you come across, their life might depend on it.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah. Your family, your relationships, the people that you interact with that hear you're a Christian, your life is the representation of what that is for them. Yeah. If they haven't read the gospel, then your life is the gospel that they see. And hopefully your life invites them into a place of deeper relationship with Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Do you think I do you think maybe uh someone like me gets too bogged down in how-to's, or do you think it's like a necessary?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

No, I think it's so important. One of the things that I've learned as a pastor in preparing messages, and it's cool because we're currently in the sanctuary. This is the platform that that I get to preach from on a regular basis. I will sit down and I will invest 10, 20 hours in a message. But what I have to make sure that I don't do is to get so down into the depth of it without giving an introduction or an on-ramp into what I'm talking about. Because I could be telling uh an account of Moses or Gideon or um or David, even one that's even more well known. But for somebody walking in these doors, they may not have any idea of who I'm talking about. I may be talking about a term, I'm talking about justification or righteousness or uh, you know, concepts that are found in in Revelation. And they're like, I've never heard these words before. It's important that we take the time to communicate what it is we're talking about, why we believe it, where it's come from. And so I do think that there is a lot of benefit and value in being able to go into some of the foundational pieces of our faith and to explain it. And we don't ever want to just be like, and we've talked about this, give it to God. Oh, okay. Let me just grab this, you know, invisible thing and let me just grab it and just give it to God, as if that's going to, you know, be this very natural thing that I'm doing right now. So I don't think you're too bogged down. And I think that it's good for us to be able to think these things through and explain them in practical terms.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, because I I really think, and correct me if I'm wrong, a lot of maybe not you here at the gathering as a lead pastor in the sermons that you put together, but I see a lot of pastors by almost necessity have to do the what and the why for the general masses, right? Like for the reasons you mentioned. And my hope, once again, here is that we give the how. Yeah. You know, how do you do deliverance? How do you heal the sick? Yeah. How do you actually evangelize? Yeah. Like what how do you start a conversation? I know Pastor Jeff Banke was talking about in a Wednesday service that you had. I love that conversation. Um, and I'm glad that I'm glad I'm not getting too practical here because I I think I think the practical and the supernatural, I think when you realize that both of them coexist in a really beautiful, cohesive way, yeah, it is so much more accessible. And now the supernatural becomes ordinary for you, which is a beautiful place to be.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Can I tell you a story?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

So it's probably 20 years ago now. I was going to a church conference in Australia, and so it was on the Sunshine Coast in Australia. Absolutely beautiful. Um, we're there on the beach, it's like 10 o'clock at night, and there's a whole group of people out there, and they're playing um, they're playing rugby. And I had never played before. So I went down there and I'm like, I want to play rugby. Can you show me how? They're like, Oh, you're American. How about you teach us how to play American football? And I was like, This is so easy, of course. So I get the rugby ball and I'm like, I could teach you. And so this is a game I've played all my life. Watch it on TV, know all the rules. It is so simple to me because I've seen it my whole life. I played it. I start explaining the game of football to a group of people who have never played it before. I'm trying to explain the line of scrimmage. They're like, What's the line of scrimmage? I'm like, Well, it's this invisible starting point that resets every single time on every single play. They're like, What does that mean? I'm trying to show them how to start every play. When in rugby, there is no start and stop. And there are, there's a like a scrum, but there isn't that same level of, okay, call a play, stop, call a play, stop. I'm trying to explain this to them. They had no idea what I was talking about. And all of a sudden, this game I've played my entire life made no sense. And so I feel like when it comes to Christianity, when it comes to our belief of who God is, we have to be able to go back to the basics of what we believe. And in a way that we examine it again, okay, I've believed this my whole life. Do I know why? Do I know how to communicate this to others? How can I speak to somebody who has no reference point for what I'm talking about and give them the practical elements of this so that they could actually engage in relationship with God and start to live this out? So if we could do that, how, if we can explain this well, if we can give invitation to greater conversation about this, I think that that would be an incredible uh you know, outcome of this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah. What do you think? Like, if you could give like three or four like must have equippings, is that the right word? Like sure, what do you think disciples must be equipped with?

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So from what starting point? Saved, knowing God, walking in the world.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

I I I think, you know, my I think most likely this podcast will attract uh a relatively mature Christian, you know, because I I think those like like me, it took me almost 10 years, actually longer, almost 15 years to start taking my faith seriously. It took me over a decade to actually read the Bible cover to cover, you know. Um but like I said, I think a a mature Christian, they're already deep into their walk, they're looking for this deeper understanding of the supernatural. So what in you know, because you like we said, heal the sick, raise the dead, yeah, cast out demons. Are those part of the things that they need to be equipped with? And you know what I mean? What is the actual like what's the tool belt? Tell me the tool belt for the disciple.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

All right, so again, not a super complicated answer, but before Jesus taught them to do any of those things, even by example, the first example that he gave them was separating himself to pray. The first thing that he showed them was that before this time of ministry, before this expression of the power of God, it was go be present with the Father. So so praying, praying in a way that is not just me communicating my thoughts to God, praying starting with the Lord's prayer that he instructed us with.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Wait, I thought he's like he's like a genie. We just get wishes, right? We get three wishes a day, I think. Exactly. Yeah. I rub my Bible.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Let me know how that works out for you.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

How's it worked so far?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

So if we miss the example that he set, because I I did say that, like he gave them the example to walk in the supernatural. But I've heard this said before. This isn't my thought on this, but it's so good. When the disciples went to Jesus and they said, Teach us, they didn't say teach us how to cast out demons. They didn't say teach us how to raise the dead. They said, teach us how to pray. They were aware that there was something in the life of Jesus that separated him away from everybody else. And it wasn't just the expression of the power. It wasn't just that when he spoke, they said, Who is this man who speaks with such great authority? Who is this man that the wind and the waves listen to him? Like he speaks to the storm and it's calm. They said, Teach us to pray. And it's because multiple times throughout scripture, Jesus goes away and he spends time with God. He starts his ministry this way. He goes to John, he gets baptized, and immediately goes into the wilderness and he spends that time. And yes, he's tempted by the devil, but I guarantee you that he is spending time with God as he's there. He is going sleepless nights, it seems like, going to pray. Before he goes to the cross, what is he doing? He's going to the garden to pray. If there was only one thing that a disciple needs to learn how to do, it's spend time with God. That is that is the paramount foundational piece. And if we treat our relationship with God as an additional extra, just something that I incorporate into my life, then I will never make time for that because it's the thing that costs so much when there are so many other things competing for my for my time, for my energy. To wake up and spend time with God is not the thing that we necessarily want to do. To make sure before we go to bed that we're just realigning our heart and just just even a short prayer. God, thank you for what you've given me today. Thank you for what I had the opportunity to walk through, the good and the bad. And tomorrow I'm asking for more grace to be more like you. Like honestly and truly, that was the most important thing that he showed them. If you get that part down, then all of the other things are in the right context.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

So it sounds to me, uh based on my understanding of scripture, there's kind of different types of prayers or maybe different utility behind prayer. But before before I get to that, you know, you kind of you made a point about making time. You know, I feel like I'm always praying. In fact, the other night I woke up praying. That's awesome. I was literally praying in the spirit. Now I didn't know if consciously I was had chosen to because I was like in that in-between state, but that was pretty cool. I have a friend though, every morning at 4 30 in the morning, he gets up, he gets on his hands and knees in front of his front door and he prays for an hour. He says it's his meeting with Jesus. Yeah. Now that to me, first impression, seems extreme. But then I'm like, I kind of like it. Yeah. Me, I'm like just kind of laying in bed, eyes half open. Yeah, you know, thank you for waking me up today, God, you know, kind of like going through my day and like different things, whatever comes to mind first. I pick up my Bible because I always say I want the word to speak to me before the world speaks to me. So I've gotten in the habit of touching my Bible first thing. Um, but definitively, if we were once again equipping a disciple right now, yeah, who like really wants to figure out this prayer thing, how do you actually pray? What does that look like on a day-to-day basis to pray and to be in God's presence and to communicate with him?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah. Um, so is can that be extreme? Yes. Some of this is can be influenced by personality, by makeup, by by those different things. But ultimately, it's going to it's going to represent how Jesus taught the disciples how to pray. And so very simple breakdown. Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed or holy is your name. To me, the best time with the Lord starts with a recognition of who he is. So that's worship. That's even without music, it's taking the time to recenter who you are. That is so self-centered or so world-centered back on him. God, you are so good. Even if I don't feel it, even if I don't understand it, by your very nature and who you are, you are good. Holy is your name. You are set apart. There is none like you. Speaking those words out, not just thinking them, but speaking those words out through word or through song or through quoting scripture, going back to the Psalms, is the most important thing because it the very first thing you were doing is a recognizing he's God and I'm not. That alone could take your entire prayer time and be worth every second of it. So holy is your name. Your kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Once again, it's this repositioning. God, you are here. I'm here, I'm in pursuit of you. I want your will to be done. I want your kingdom, your authority, who you are, to come into this world and that I would be a conduit of it, that it would flow through me because that's the way that you've designed it. You said, come to you, you said, represent me to the world, basically, is the example that Jesus gave us. So your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And then give me this day my daily bread. I I am gonna ask for things because you're a good father and you want to give it to me and you love me. Uh lead me not into temptation, but deliver me from evil. Uh I I want to I want to make sure that in this moment that I'm I'm holding on to things against my brother. Forgive me of my trespasses. Forgive me of the things that I've done, that I've put my attention on my own pursuits, my own ambitions, as I forgive those who have sinned against me, and then lead me not to temptation, deliver me from evil. And we return back to this conclusion of the prayer that's found actually in one of the Psalms. It says, For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. So him first, his kingdom, his will to be done. Yes, forgive me for those places where I've fallen short. I'm gonna forgive those who have trespassed against me. And now I want to walk this out. I want to actually live this out in my life. That to me is a very simple model of it. But the more that you do it, the more it becomes relational. And it's not this checklist that I have in front of me.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Because you've already probably you've already probably hit that checklist in your posture and in your spirit.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah. Right. It just becomes familiar. Like if you walked in the door, maybe, maybe some people are just formulaic like this, but you like you greeted your wife in the same way every single day, and you just said the same things all the time, it would feel formulaic, it wouldn't feel relational. There are times where I will always start in a place of worship or a posture of just wanting to recognize who he is. And there's times where I feel like read scripture, and so I read scripture. Times where it's like, hey, sing a hymn. Just something very simple. Times where it's like, I want you to take your journal out and just start to write. Once we get familiar with what it is to be in relationship with him, we become sensitive and we allow him to direct what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

In the meantime, though, if you had to prescribe a protocol, say, what would you tell me to do? If I'm like really uh it's like, oh yeah, I pray all the time, anyways. I talk to him while I'm driving, I do want to for, but like if I needed more structure to that, what do you what do you think a good place to start?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Before you go to bed, set your Bible up, get your coffee ready, be prepared, get your water ready, get your space in front of the front door, in your office, in your your closet, wherever it is, like you have to go sit in your car in the parking lot, find your spot.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

There should so, first of all, there needs to be a specific spot, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

That's a really practical way to do it. It's not always, you know, it has to be prescriptive in that you always do it this way. But if you are going to make this time, if if you were gonna meet somebody of really you know significant value in your life, you'd want to think, oh, we should meet here because this is gonna be the environment where we can talk, where we can hear each other, where we can enjoy each other's company. Find that spot. Not in front of the television, not with yourself in your hand. And just start by, I would say, when you wake up, I'm assuming this is first thing in the morning, going to the Lord and just saying, God, I just want to recognize who you are. And the reason that I'm here right now, it's not for me, it's for you. I would open up scripture, I would start in the Psalms. There are so many beautiful Psalms that you could just go to and you could start to just read the words of David. Like you don't even have to be super um what I would say, like creative or spiritual on your own. You could actually use the words that are already in there. I think I've been opening to Psalm 51.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

What happens when we're lamenting like David though? Sometimes I'm lamenting, you know, is that a is that a problem?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

That's not a problem, but I still want to start with I still want to start with who he is more than anything else. I still want to just recognize that he is so good. Um, I mean, this is maybe a combination. Psalm 46, God is our refuge and our strength. He is a very present help in trouble. Therefore, we therefore we will not fear, though the earth gives way, though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam, through the mountains, though the mountains tremble at its swelling, there is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy habitation is the most high. God is in the midst of her, and she shall not be moved. This is just speaking about what we get to experience God as the one who is not shaken or moved. And then it says in verse 10, Be still and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth. It's this beautiful expression of this is who he is. I'm reminding myself of the truth of that. So in joy and excitement, or in lamentation and sorrow, he doesn't change. So we should always recognize that first.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, this is one of the things prayer specifically, when I talk about the seriousness. Of my faith, I realized I had to start taking more serious, not in quantity, but in quality. And really having a separate space where you're not just laying in bed praying, where you're not just doing it because it's easy.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

But to me, isn't that so important? Because for me, if I'm laying in bed praying, I'm just gonna fall asleep.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

That's why that's that's part of it though. I mean, and I think you know, we'll we'll talk more in the future about some of the spiritual realm and demonic influences and stuff, but like it's very easy to fall asleep at nighttime when you're just laying in bed and just kind of you know, not really putting much into it. Yeah. I think, and I and this is other we talked about spiritual technologies. I think there's a lot in physic physical posture and what that does in the spiritual realm too, which that may sound a little crazy to some people, but no getting on your hands and knees or even in worship when you're when your hands are open. Like there we see this in um they they have they've done studies with uh blind children. Um the first thing they do when they win a race or win something, what do they do? They put their hands up. Wow, they've never seen that before. Yeah, the body's responding to victory, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

So the inverse, I imagine, like when we're in a spiritual atmosphere or we're in worship, there's a posture that's related to that.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

I couldn't agree more. I had my pastor told me, and and we were in youth group at that time. She's like, Okay, so you stand here, we're worshiping the God of the universe, and your hands are in your pockets or your arms are folded, and you're kind of just like, Jesus, you're amazing. We love you. And it looks like you're so disinterested, you're not engaged in any way. I I agree completely. The posture of our physical bodies definitely has a connection.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

And I I think, but I really do I do think things move in the spiritual realm when we're when things move in the physical. So who was it? Who was it that was face down naked in the Bible, like uh praying? Do you know? Um, I forget what who that was.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

I'm thinking of I'm thinking of when uh was it Moses or Noah was, but that's a different example. That wasn't that wasn't praying.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

But I'm saying like it's it's that it's that posture of submission and surrender. Yeah. And I think I know there's something that happens neurologically, physiologically, and ultimately spiritually when we get into the when we get into those positions. But that's probably we're gonna go layers deep in future.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

I think there I really want to hear hear what you've learned on that because I think that there's a lot of value value in recognizing how our physical posture and position matters. Um, so to continue, so I I would I would go into that place and that posture of recognizing who he is in worship. I would then make time to read the scripture, go and read the life of Jesus, go into the gospels, read who he is, read the words that he spoke. Take that, don't just read it and just put the Bible away. Think about it. Don't feel like you have to read an entire chapter in order to be able to say, Hey, I read the Bible today. If there are four verses that stand out to you, read them and think about them. It's the living word of God, which means that you are consuming something that is meant to do something inside of you. Don't rush through it. Think about what it is. And then absolutely, you said there's multiple types of prayer. There absolutely is. There are prayers of intercession for other people's people, there are prayers of supplication, there are prayers of petition, there are prayers when we just go before the Lord and say, Hey, this is something I'm going through today. I don't have the strength for it. Can you give me the grace that I need to walk through this thing? And is there something that you want to speak to me about this thing that I'm facing that I'm not seeing? Is there something you want to reveal to me in scripture or in my spirit right now that I need to know? Take the time. So worship, go to the word, meditate, and then yeah, talk to them and take the time to listen.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

All right. So you kind of gave us uh not just an overview, but like when I asked how to pray, you said, okay, well, set it, set time aside. And if we have to, we do it in a specific location or home, maybe. Doesn't necessarily have to be as extreme, I guess, as getting on your hands and knees in your front door. But if that's a necessity for some people, yeah. Um, we do know to pray without ceasing. That's why like I'm always someone described it to me as like Jesus is here right now. And if you could actually see him like standing next to you, it'd be kind of weird not to talk to him all the time, you know, and not to ask him about like even what you're gonna wear that day or what's gonna happen in this business meeting that I need to know about, or where do you what direction do you want me to go in in this particular decision I have to make? Um, so is there a time frame? Like, how long should I be praying? Because we see we hear that pray without ceasing, but yeah, and I and I don't want to get too prescriptive, but I feel like to me, like I think there's a lot of people like me who need the structure, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Have you heard of the five love languages by Gary Chapman? Yes, yes, yeah. Okay, so anytime you're in marriage counseling, premarital counseling, you're talking about the five love languages, which I think is really helpful. Um, I always forget one of them, but I know that I hate words of affirmation.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

My wife will tell you uh I do not take compliments well.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

The one that I am really not good at, naturally, is my wife's strongest one, which is quality time. Because for me, I'm like, hey, we're together, we're doing something together, we're watching the food network, we're we're spending time, you know, together with our kids.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Together alone time, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

But quality time is actually investing in each other in conversation and relationship. And so it's not to say that the other time together doesn't matter, and how you act in the other time together doesn't matter, and that you shouldn't be recognizing and engaging with the person in those moments. But in our time with the Lord, if we don't have the quality time, I don't think that the remainder of our time in that day is actually going to be as effective. The quality time and the intentional time is the most important to me because if we get that right and we spend that time with him intentionally recognizing who he is, what we're doing is we're setting up the posture of my life in that day to be able to respond to who he is. And then when I go to work and I'm driving in the car, I'm having that conversation. I have a few moments in between, and I'm just like, God, I love you. We are thinking about what we read in the scripture. We're talking with somebody and we're like, hey, did you, did you recognize in this that that you were talking about how how like you know, bad you are in this area, how shameful you are? Like, do you know that's not how God sees you? Those other moments are a byproduct of the quality time that we spend. And so I think it could be a cop-out for people if they were like, Oh, I just pray all the time. I just think about God randomly during the day. I like that's how I great. Definitely do that. But spend the quality intentional time first, and then I think you're much more likely at various points in the day just to feel that that little tug where you're just like, Oh, hey, I just wanted to just wanted to tell you I love you, God. Just wanted to have that this quick connection. And to me, that is a really cool depiction of what it's supposed to look like.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, and thinking back to my friend who who goes to his front door every morning at 4 30, he calls it his meeting with Jesus because it's the most important meeting of his day. And I I do love that idea. Um, you mentioned the utility of prayer insofar as we're talking about intercession, supplication. One of the things that I've stopped doing, I'm not perfect with this, I still pray for things sometimes that I think I want or need. Like, how foolish is that? You know, like, and that's where I've come to realize is like the birds don't have to worry. Why do I have to worry? Like, God's always worked it out. And I know that, like I said before, my disappointment is always his protection. So I I try not to pray for things. Should we be praying for things though? Specifically, like, should I be like, God, resolve this financial thing? Should I be praying for, you know, obviously intercession and things for healing, but what about like a specific outcome that I think I want or is good for me? Should I be praying for that specific thing?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yes, I don't think that there is, I don't think there is ever a wrong thing to pray about in terms of what we're praying about. The way that we pray needs to change sometimes, meaning that whatever the situation is, it should always be brought to God. He's the good father that cares about everything we're walking through. But if I go to him with the outcome already in mind on this is what should happen, and we pray for that thing, like God, I have a need right now. I've got a deficit financially. I need $10,000. I need you to send somebody over to me with a check in my mailbox to put it in there, and I'm gonna go home and this $10,000 is gonna be here. That is basically indicating, God, this is the only way that I think that you could be faithful in this situation. If we have the $10,000 need, yes, Lord, you know the need that I have. You know what's gonna happen if I don't have this money at this point in time, but I'm not gonna go into fear and I'm not gonna go into worry and anxiety about it. I'm gonna ask that your will would be done in my life on earth as it is in heaven. And I'm gonna trust that no matter what the outcome is here, that you are gonna take care of me. And so is there something that you want me to do? Is there a next step that you want me to take? And if it is, I want you just to rest and to trust that I'm gonna take care of this, awesome. If it's to just go into a place of worship and to just continue to seek him, great. Um, is it to make a phone call and to talk to somebody in particular? Do that thing. But if we go into prayer with the end in mind, it's like we're treating him like a genie. God, I need this thing. Please do this for me in this way.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

So so we can pray for the what, but we also need to pray for the direction, right? Or the how? Yeah, the direction. So we can pray for the $10,000, but not that it's just gonna show up miraculously on our doorstep.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah, I I think we just come before him as a child would before his father.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

And if he's told us to do something in that area and we haven't already done it, maybe that's the only time that we shouldn't go and and pray for whatever it is, because he's given us direction, and sometimes we'll have this sense I need to go do this thing. Yeah, I want to go bless this person with this amount of money. I want to go and do this thing. And so I have that in my mind, but I just keep, ah, that's just me. That's just my own thoughts, that's just my own idea. But maybe it's that God has spoken that to us because that is an avenue into the outcome that he wants to bring us into. Yeah. So I would just say, relational. This is always meant to be relational. And what happens is that we go to God with our understanding and our outcome that we think we needed, even if it's as significant as heal that loved one, or I need this bill to be paid, or fix this situation. And then it doesn't happen the way that we want it to, and then we blame God. And some people walk away from God thinking, oh, he's not actually real, because he didn't do the thing that I think thought that he needed to do in the way that I thought he needed to do it. It's faith that we're meant to hold on to. And Abraham didn't know how or when Isaac was going to come, but he continued to believe, and in the moment that it was meant to happen, God brought Isaac. And so pray about everything. Pray without ceasing. But pray from the standpoint of God, I know who you are, and you're so good, and I trust your outcome in this. So would you teach me to trust you even more? Teach me to operate in your grace. Teach me that even when it looks the most dark, and even when I don't know what the outcome is, you're still good, and you're still going to bring the best because you're a good father.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah. Amen. I yeah, I always pray, you know, you tell me if this is wrong, but I always say God's will, God's will, you know. And but that's not separating me from the practical action that's necessary. And I've said this to you before, is like, I firmly believe and know that we are very often the practical means to God's supernatural solution, right? And uh, so I always ask for the direction or the action that I needed or the idea. Um, so this falls under the umbrella of prayer uh for supplication. Um and also on this, I heard a quote about speaking of the birds, right? How he provides for the birds. I forget who quoted this. Maybe it was Dave Ramsey, I don't know. He said, uh God uh provides the worms, but he doesn't put the worms in the birds' nests. So faith without works is dead. Yeah, you know, ask, seek, knock, take some action, you know. Yeah, a lot of this points back to the practical side of our faith is taking action. I was thinking about today. We were on the golf course. Uh, I had to leave early because there was a uh medical situation with my grandmother, and you said, Hey, let me pray for you. Perfect time to do that. There's nothing you could do for my grandmother in that time.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

So this leads me up to my question of like, when is prayer not the answer in the moment? Because I was actually joking with my wife afterwards. Uh, I was like, this would be a good like uh Instagram bit, you know, like your house is burning down, and like your friend comes over and it's like, oh, let me just let me pray for you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So where's that line between praying? Because I feel I'll be like, oh, let me pray for you. But I I firmly believe if if my friend comes to me and they tell me they're struggling with their finances, I'm not just gonna say, Hey, I can pray for you. Yeah, I'm gonna first I'm gonna try to help them ideate. If there's something that I know they have agency over, like they're a business owner, yeah, I'm not just gonna give them a handout for the sake of it. But if they genuinely need money, yeah, that's how I'm gonna help them, not just praying, you know, breakthrough with their finances. So where do you know? Does that make sense? Like, where do you draw the line with that?

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, Holy Spirit discernment for me is really what comes into play here because my heart is always to help somebody, especially as a pastor. They come to me, they're like, I have this need. If it's in my realm of possibility to help them, I want to help them immediately. And what I've learned is sometimes my own desire to help them is not always the best thing for them in that moment. Like you said, sometimes you just have to have a conversation and say, Well, what's going on here? Like, why do we keep ending up in this spot? Is there something different we have to do? But the prayer is always beneficial. Now, your house is burning down. Let's go put out the fire. Let's go immediately to that thing to go deal with it, right? Um, but even in that, right? If I can't put out the fire myself, well, let's go. But as I'm on my way, God, we need a miracle here. Holy Spirit, like we need the right people, the right place, the firefighters, send the reins you can, but whatever it is, right? So you're doing it in action because you don't always have the time to literally stop everything to do it. Most of the time, I think you do, and I think it's a really good thing. But if your plane is going down or whatever it is, like you have to, you have to have built up that that connection, that communication with God that no matter what's going on, that you are able just to, just to turn your your internal world to, God, I know you got this. Like that can be a prayer, just in and of itself. It's that shift that can happen in a moment that gives permission to God to calm your emotions and the fear and the anxiety that's going on inside of you. Yeah. So once again, always pray. How you pray matters. And Jesus gives us great examples of what it is to do that. Um, fasting, we talked about that, like these practical elements of it, but it is a lifestyle that's created. And the only way that lifestyle is created is when you shift your focus to saying, my time with him is the most important thing that I could do. It is the best thing that I could do with my day, is to start it with him. And that can be challenging no matter who we are, but it's always, always, always the most beneficial thing we can do.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

So, like I said, this falls under the umbrella of praying for supplication. You talked about uh intercession. How do we pray for somebody? How do we intercede for somebody? Because I I get caught up with the word sometimes, and I know it's not like it's not, oh, let me put the words in this right way, and it's not a specific algorithm to like, you know, God's not like some AI bot where you're just like whatever, you know. Um, so how do you how do you pray for intercession for somebody?

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah, I think the the person who does such a good job at this is uh Pete Gregg. And so I would recommend anybody who wants to learn about specific prayer, he has a book that's really simply called How to Pray, a simple guide for normal people. We highly recommend it. We use it in the church. To intercede for somebody, you have to find out what they're they're going through. Like, okay, do you have a good understanding of what they're going through or not? If you can get a greater understanding, good, do that. Because you want to actually put yourself in a place where you care about what they're going through. Like your heart breaks for what they're dealing with, and you go before the Lord. And what I always do, I'm like, God, I love this person, but you love them so much more because you have unconditional love and you know what they're going through, you know what they're walking through, you know the challenge that they're facing. And so I'm asking that you would intervene in their life right now, that you would bring them the grace that they need in the midst of the situation. Because it doesn't always, we can't always just pray and have that situation change completely. But we want God's will to be done. So if they are, if if he's using that to strengthen them and to prepare them, then then I'm not praying that we would override what God's doing, but give them the grace they need to walk through it, to be strengthened by it. Bring the right people into their life in these moments that they need to be able to encourage them and to walk with them. Um, and yeah, if they're in need of something specific, God, I pray I attach my faith to their situation right now. And I pray that you would provide for them, heal them, bring the change that they need in that relationship. But it comes from a place of knowing who he is and his love for them, and then knowing that he is such a good and perfect father that he wants to bring them the answer that they need. I just keep coming back to this. The answer is not always what we think it is. So let's stop pre predetermining what the outcome needs to be and spend more time trusting him that he's working it out, and that I'm gonna keep giving myself to whatever he wants to do because he knows the beginning from the end, and I'm gonna trust him in it.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yeah, this reminds me of of a balance between like faith and attachment. It's like faith, keep that high, attachment to your desire, low. Hey, great. If this is part of God's will, yeah, God show me what to do. Yeah, show me how to operate in this assignment. But if it's not, that's okay too. If I'm supposed to, God forbid, file for bankruptcy and um, there's gonna be a lesson in this, and uh, this is the financial struggle I have to go through. I'm gonna operate in peace and understanding to the best of my ability. Not that it's gonna be easy. That's where I've gotten to is like a level of detachment from the worldly desires. And I thank God, that's like I thank God, because I could have gone down a totally different route because I had I had a taste of some success, financial gain, some social media fame, and I could have gone that direction. And it's only by the grace of God that he reeled me back in. Um, but I saw the danger of it very quickly. So now it's get it's gotten me to this place of detachment, you know, and not detachment where I'm like apathetic, but it's like I realize, first of all, this life is a vapor. I fully believe I'm gonna wake up in heaven, not wake up, but I'm gonna be in heaven one day, and I'll be like, oh, those 84 years, hopefully or more, it was nothing. Like it was just like went by, you know. So that's where I've kind of gone.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

I don't know if that's the right way to look at it, but there's just a maturity in recognizing that the things in this earth are great. God gives us things to bless us with, to bless others with. If that's what we have, that's amazing. But ultimately, do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust will destroy, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where nobody's gonna be able to come and take it away from you. So investment on this earth, making wise decisions, even building up wealth to be able to bless the world, like that's amazing. But ultimately, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. And so if your treasure's in the right place, you're laying up something that is going to be in existence for eternity, not just for that this short amount of time that you're here. So if we trust him, he'll give us the the right steps along the way. And as we put our eyes on him, he'll give us the right perspective.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Amen. Okay, so to land this plane on prayer, wrap it all up in three points. Okay. What would you say to the person who's like, okay, I heard all that, it's resonating. How do we get how do we get that down into three points?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

The pursuit of Jesus is the greatest ambition that we could ever have in our life in every area. So prayer is spending time with him. Don't treat it as a formula, don't treat it as a checked box. Go and spend time with him because he wants to be with you. He wants to spend time with you. He gave his life to be with us. That's number one. Number two, lay down your own expectancy for what has to happen. Lay down your will, not my will, but your will be done. So that's why we pray. Uh, Father, let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Number three, I would say that we need to choose to engage in faith. Choose to believe and trust that he is going to bring the best outcome when I trust in him. And when I walk in faith, it gives me access into the supernatural ability to. To walk in obedience, to walk in the grace that he has for me, um, to be able to take those next steps that I need, trusting that he's gonna do everything that I need. Uh, no matter what, the outcome, if it's in him, it's good, even if it's not what I expected it to be.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

If Peter can step off the boat, you can make that call, you can have that conversation, you can take that action that you can have, you can post that video, you know what I mean? Like you can do that thing, you know. All right. So, speaking of prayer, let's pray. Let's pray us out of here, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Lord Jesus, I thank you that in your word you gave us the example of what it is to pray, what it is to have relationship with the Father, of what it is to not just ask, but to expect to receive. And I pray that for anyone listening right now, that if they haven't developed that life of prayer or that experience with you, that you would give them a hunger and a desire to be present with the God of the universe who loves them more than they could ever imagine. But I even pray beyond that, that Holy Spirit, as they speak, as they open up their mouth, even right now in this moment, that they would feel and experience your power at work within them, knowing that the same power that rose Christ Jesus from the dead was given to us for those that believe in him. And I pray, Lord God, that this would not just be an idea, this wouldn't just be a formula, but it would be a reality of who you've called them to be and how you've called us to walk in relationship with you. We pray all these things in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Amen. Awesome. On the stage, too. Love it.