How to Be a True Disciple of Jesus | The 5th Gospel

In this episode, Sam Edwards from The Gathering (Hudson Valley) breaks down what it truly means to live as a disciple of Jesus in today’s world.

From navigating AI and social media to choosing the right church, this conversation dives deep into biblical truth, spiritual discipline, and Christian identity.

We explore:
-Why lukewarm Christianity is so dangerous
-How to discern truth in a digital age
-The importance of in-person church and accountability
-Gray areas of sin, conviction, and repentance
-Healing trauma and “soul wounds” through Christ
-Daily disciplines: prayer, Scripture, fasting, and worship
-How to use AI as a tool without letting it shape your beliefs

If you’ve ever felt stuck in your faith or unsure how to grow spiritually, this episode gives you a practical roadmap for the next 24 hours—and beyond.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I want to use it as a tool, but I don't want to outsource my discernment, let's say. How should a Christian utilize AI in today's day and age?

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Use it as a tool. Don't use it as the source. If you're trying to figure out how to fix your relationship, go to Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

The biggest danger for Christians using AI is the 1% of lie or deception that's in it. And 99% of it's going to be biblically accurate, but it's just like going to a psychic, and that's the trouble with AI.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Then the fact that it tells you what you want to hear. You can ask it for a scripture on anything, and it will make one up for you if you really want it. The more we know what God says in the Word, the more that we'd be able to catch the places where it's not telling the truth.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

What is the process to let's say resolve a soul wound specifically? What is the step-by-step process?

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Pain in relationships that keeps happening over and over again, even places where like, why does this keep happening to me? Okay, realize that there's probably something there if you're the common denominator. Usually that is going to reveal a lie that I believe to be true about myself.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

I want you to talk about the next 24 hours. Yeah. The person listening to this. Yeah. What should it look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Before you go to bed the night before, create that space. Get your Bible, open it up to the passage, John chapter one. Start in any of the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. Start there. Open your Bible up to it. Get your notebook ready. Get your pen ready. Have your coffee preset in the morning and plan on doing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Sam Edwards, the pastor, lead pastor at the gathering here in Hunts of Valley is going to be a staple of the show. It's going to be your show. I don't even want to be the guy. I don't want to be the guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

I refuse, I refuse to have it be my show. I I like the uh the ability to sit down in this chair and have it be your show and we just answer questions. I don't need one more place of responsibility in my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Well, for all the all the um people from the gathering who are who are listening or watching this uh right now, uh, this is Sam's show. So don't blame, don't blame me for anything. He's your pastor.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Um Yeah, well, I I can certainly uh I know what that's like, just you know, you know, have all the complaints come back to me.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

You know, in all seriousness, you know, I I've said even before you came on the show when I did episodes with other guests and on my own, is like, don't trust me. Go to this book and test.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I say the same exact thing, right? If I ever preach a message or tell you something and it doesn't line up with this, then and I know I've got a lot of good people that come back and be like, hey, wait a second. And I get like questions for clarification and context, which I think is so important because we we're all trusting in our walk with God, but we're all this is the standard of truth that we go off of.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

So I have a really good friend who's an Orthodox Christian. Okay, and one of our biggest gripes with us, with those people now, yeah, um is the lack of checks and balances in what is preached.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Do you have checks and balances? Like who does any? I mean, you kind of just reference people checking you, but is there a formal system? Like because I I I've seen from one church in California to uh Philip Anthony Mitchell to you, like there's a lot of variation. We're all speaking the same truth, yeah. But there's nuance that matters. Yeah. So where does the checks and body?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Hopefully, it's more stylistic than it is content driven, but yes, we definitely have a covering. So our church has a covering of the assemblies of God. And so if I went off the rails, um, they would certainly come in and be like, hey, what's going on here? And there would be, I'm sure, either correction uh that would happen um within with our board of elders, or there would be a disconnection, right? Because um there are some that would go off the rails, but if their church supports them in it, you know, they can keep going that direction. But we have great people in our church, uh, a board, we have elders. I have people that I respect greatly, and I know this very confidently that if I ever went in a direction that was anti-biblical, um, there would be no shortage of people that would be coming up to me and calling me to account for that, which I love. And we have to have that. So um I can't speak to any other church and how they operate, but there should be a covering, there should be accountability, and ultimately it should be very simple. Is this what the Bible says, or does it not? And if it's a gray area, how are you presenting it? How are you talking about the context? Um, is it your belief or is it something that is a doctrinal truth? What does the early church say about it? What's what's been the tradition all this time, you know? And so going back to those places, I think, is is necessary for people to have trust. So, like, yeah, some more orthodox or more, you know, mainline churches, um, I would say more conservative, right? But there's another word for it that's that's escaping me right now. But it's like, you know, we're we're not deviating from this and an iota, right? And so they get frustrated with Pentecostal Christianity sometimes because people have been too flippant, no question about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Yeah, that's one of the things I respect about reformed is the word I was looking for. Reformed, reformed, yes. One of the things I respect most is the liturgy, right? Is this liturgy that's been passed down for 2,000 years? Yeah. Now I I know that Orthodox bishops and deacons, they give sermons, but they have some pretty strict guidelines on what they can talk about, right? Stylistic things, like you said, are pretty strict. Yeah. Um, but it's it's different from church to church, from you know, Catholic Mass to watching you preach on on Sunday. Um, how does a Christian pick a church?

SPEAKER_00 5:35

The Holy Spirit leads them. Um it's been a long time since I've changed churches, and the church that I last moved to, I became the pastor of. So um what I would say in in knowing that you're in the right church, and I do believe it is, God calls you to a specific place. And I think that if we have that confidence, we shouldn't be quick to leave it once we find it. But in terms of knowing if the church is preaching biblical truth, uh speaking on things that matter, following the leading of the Holy Spirit, those are the things for me that really, that really matter. And so I would encourage anybody that if they're searching for a church, start with a church that preaches the gospel, that actually uh holds the Bible in its proper estimation of what it is. Um, they're not just, you know, using a Bible verse and then creating a whole message that is loosely based on the context of that verse. They're not afraid to talk about things that matter, which is, you know, that's a deep conversation. But I think that we need to be willing to speak to the issues of the day, not exclusively, but when they when they come up, we should be able to talk about them. And most importantly, a second to the scripture is being led by the Holy Spirit. Because for me, like I couldn't imagine having uh all of my script all of my sermons prepared in advance, like this is what you have to preach. Because when I read the word and I invest in it and I study it, God is continually speaking. And I love to be able to take some of what that is, that revelation, and to be able to put that into a message and to speak that. And when that happens, that that usually has the best outcome in terms of our services and and feedback from the messages in terms of what that did for for the listener.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

So say I'm I'm a Christian who's in search of a new church, or maybe a first church. Um, I need to consult with the Holy Spirit first, right? So it does which what does that look like? That's does he have does he put a glowing light above the church while you're driving by? Does he give you a dream? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, I think if we ask and seek and ye shall find, it's like we should trust that God calls us to go to church, he calls us not to forsake the gathering um of believers. And so uh it's not to say that we should just be sitting at home picking from live streams every every Sunday. Um, so I would say yes, he does call us to go to a church. And so if he has, then trusting him to lead us in the same way that we would trust him when it comes to our spouse, when it comes to a job, when it comes to other things in life, that we should truly trust that when we ask him, he wants to give us direction. Um, and so practically that might be you watch them online and you see what they're about, you go in person. Um, but the main things have to be the main things. And to me, it starts with scripture and continues in in how the Holy Spirit is given freedom to move and then continuing from there.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Yeah, this is the tough part. Like when I've brought people to church for the first time or haven't been in a while, and there's something quote unquote controversial getting preached on, then they don't come back because they're like, oh, I don't agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because what will happen more often than not is I'll be aware of a visitor, and then something in the service happens different than I expected it to. And for me, I'm like, okay, well, God, I just I gotta trust that you're the one that's that's leading them on the on the walk. But are you speaking about something more controversial in terms of like a biblical standard? Are you talking more of like a politically charged thing? What what specifically are you thinking about?

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Well, because we're our audience is we want to build disciples and have people who are bold in their faith, embolden scripture, embolden truth. Let's let's put it out there. Um, we look at the LGBT, etc. community. Um, and obviously scripture says there is a standard for man and woman, things like marriage and things like that. Here's my thing with this that I really want people, especially non-believers, to understand when I when I bring up these topics is like I don't hate that sin any more than I hate the sin right here.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Right? Yeah, it's no different than me lusting after a woman or any other sin. Yeah, it's as as it's as grave to me as when I talk about the sin out there. Yeah, and I do think too many Christians focus on the sin out there and not enough on the sin here.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

So that's the first thing I want people to know. The second thing I want people to know is that scripture doesn't care about your feelings.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yeah. So true. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

So what would you say to the people who they believe in 98% of the scripture, but there's 2% of it that really makes them feel uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah. They got to go deeper and find out why it's making them uncomfortable. And usually it's a pretty, you know, tangible reason. It's not really that hard to discover. But do you take the time to realize why is this pushing back on me? Um, internally, why am I having this response to it? But um, I think the way that we talk about these things really matters. Uh, again, I think the church hasn't always done a great job in displaying who Jesus is really well. And it's really easy to get up on a Sunday and to preach against the sin of the world and to bash people, so to speak. Um, and it's harder to lead them into the reality of who Jesus is first, understanding his love for them, what Jesus did in dying for them on the cross, and then leading them into the place of realizing that Jesus does have a standard, that God and his word, that there is a standard that is set and it isn't predicated on our feelings or our emotions. Um, and this is where you could say, like, hey, you may not like gravity, but gravity doesn't care whether you believe in it or not. If you jump from something high and you don't have a soft landing, you're gonna get hurt. The standard of what scripture is is because God designed and ordained the world that we live in, and it's based off of his nature that doesn't change. And so I can disagree with it, and I actually think God is, you know, in terms of like having dialogue with him, it is not going to be offended that you have a disagreement. But at the end of the day, who is the one who has the final say? Is it God or is it my emotions? Is it my finite understanding, which is like this big, or is it the God of the universe who knows everything with no lack, with no um anything missing in his in his understanding or or wisdom? And so we have to be willing in our lives to determine who has the final say. And so if it's something that I don't agree with, like I said, find out why. Is it something that I have a desire or proclivity in this area? I have an attraction, maybe I have same-sex attraction, or it's somebody in my family that does. Like I've seen this happen a lot where uh a parent will be, you know, against uh all the things that the Bible is against, whatever it is, right? And then all of a sudden their their child comes out and says, Well, I'm gay. And all of a sudden their belief system changed because their child did, because they don't want to lose connection. Well, that's understandable, but it's not God's standard. And do I love somebody enough to tell them the truth in love and in relationship if it's going to hurt them in the long run? The thing is, is that again, we we've talked about this in previous episodes. When we go into our flesh to try to be the thing that informs how I make my decisions, um, what's going to happen is I'm gonna be limited to my own strength and my own understanding instead of saying, oh God, like you love this person who's dealing with the sin, whether it's me or somebody else, so much that you want to give me the wisdom on how to talk to them about it, how to pray for them, how to lead them through it. Uh, and I think that if we were quicker to go back to God and to receive his grace and to walk in that, we would have different conversations that aren't so confrontational. But if somebody comes to church and we speak about something that they don't they don't agree with, which happens, and they get up and they walk out, like if I could chase them down in that moment and have a conversation, maybe I would, but I don't have that ability, you know, to do that. Um, and so I just have to trust that God's working through them and maybe they'll find a uh you know, a time in their life where they're willing to really examine that more. But ultimately, my responsibility is to teach the truth in grace and just to be aware of of how God's leading me to say it in that moment.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

And I think I think what we're talking about here really dovetails nicely from last episode because we're talking about kind of how the lifestyle of a Christian plays out. Yeah, what it means to be a disciple of Jesus practically as well. Right. And we'll we'll in f in the future, I'm sure we'll dive into deeper spiritual conversations and the supernatural power. And I know like when I say this term, the spiritual technologies that exist. Um, but for this episode, I I want to keep going down this this lane of practical um discipleship. Um, what is what is the life of a of a Christian look like tangibly? Um, and we already started this conversation with uh how to pick a church. That's a very practical thing that probably a lot of new Christians and even Christians who have gone astray are wondering, right? I think it also brings up the question of how important is church? Like actually going to church on a Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Do we need to do that?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Yeah. I think it's a great question and one that many people are, I'm sure, wrestling through, especially in the day and age in which we live in. Um, you know, when I came into our church in 2016, we didn't have a live stream. And it was something that I thought, hey, we should get a live stream. Like this would be a really good idea for people to be able to see our church and to check it out before they even come here. But now in the day that we live, day and age that we live in, uh post-COVID, everybody has a live stream. The biggest churches, the the most grandiose churches with the biggest budgets and you know, best lighting and cameras and and worship and everything else to the to the smaller ones as well. And so my point is that you can on a Sunday morning wake up and you can never get out of your you know pajamas. You can get your breakfast and sit down on the couch and go to church. That to me is like only in times of emergency. Like my kids are throwing up all over and I and I just you know can't make it out today, or they canceled because of a snowstorm or whatever it is. Um, that unfortunately for too many in our in our world have has become church though. And it's not to be, you know, um to bring condemnation, but and I am a pastor, so obviously I do have my own, you know, view on it. But the Bible says that we are not to forsake the gathering together, the coming together of the brothers and sisters in Christ. And there's a reason for that because it's twofold. Number one, it's really easy to stay the same when I'm by myself. If I'm never challenged on anything, it's really easy for me to keep doing what I've always done. When I'm in community with other people, though, that becomes more difficult. When I have relationships with other people and I show up each and every week together, uh, they can actually start to speak into those places. And it's the ones who are kind of the lone wolves on their own that we should often be the most cautious of because they don't have those checks and balances. Um, number two, there is something on your life and my life and everybody who believes in Jesus that they have that somebody else needs. If I don't come together, I can have the best wisdom, the best understanding, all of these gift things. But if I don't bring them to the table, then others don't get to eat from it. And so that's really selfish. And third, there is a spiritual dynamic about coming together in agreement. The word says that where two or three are gathered together in my name, I'm there in the midst of them. Well, if the two or three are gathered, and it's not to say it couldn't be on the phone or online, but like there is something about coming together and being present together in worship, in the word, in even in the things like giving of our tithes and our offerings as a community, taking communion, being able to be a part of baptism services. There's something very specific about coming together that is lost when we're sitting at home or just completely abstaining from going to church.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Well, that's what's intrigued me most is the spiritual reality of the practical things that we're called to do.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

When you go to church, there's a literal spiritual atmosphere that's different than the atmosphere before you walked in. And it's not just it's not just in theory, like there's something happening in the invisible realm. Yeah. When you step into church and you start worshiping together.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Also, the practical side of this is like reverence, ritual, repetition, environment. These are all things that God already designed to benefit us.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

And so I ful I full uh and wholeheartedly agree that we need to be going to church. Now, you said in extreme circumstances or sickness, or you know, obviously, if you're gonna travel, travel, if you can find a church, I'm sure that'd be good.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Um, is it a sin then not to go to church? Or like where do we draw the line with what's a sin and what's not a sin in that case?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

If I wanted to really simplify it and boil it down, if we're doing something that's outside of the will of God, then yeah, it is, it's sinful.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Someone's getting convicted right now. Someone listening, they're like, I gotta get back to church.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah, and it's uh no one's no one's asked me that question point blank before. And so that could seem extreme. Yeah, but uh in the same way that you said before, like we're not judging other people's sins as greater than being other ones necessarily. Um, yeah, if if God calls us to do something and we have our own reasons why we're not gonna do it, then yeah, that that's sin, basically by its very definition. I'm choosing my understanding over his.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

So it's a sin to go against your conviction from the Holy Spirit. Is that a metric?

SPEAKER_00 20:23

It's a sin to go against what he's saying, right? So our conviction, yes, except for that can feel like a little bit uh you know uh abstract, right? My conviction on something may feel a certain way, and you may have a separate conviction and they may conflict with one another, but uh that's why we need to learn how the Holy Spirit speaks to us, how God speaks to us, but we can always start with the word, right? If I've never felt or heard the voice of God in my life, or and I think we talked about this the first time we got together, and what it was like to hear the voice of God, um, and we should develop that for ourselves. But if the scripture says something, it's pretty black and white, especially New Testament scripture.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

But does the scripture say go to church every Sunday?

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah, it says do not forsake the coming together of of the the brothers, the the brethren.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

So but does that incorp does that incorporate four walls in a specific location? Like you said, he referenced, you know, are we having church right now, you and I?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Uh no. But I think it's I think you know, in a certain sense, like you could have community, you can have fellowship.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

We did communion before we started recording today. Yeah. And we're yeah, you're basically preaching part parts of a sermon right now, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

So like Well, I think you but this is where we have to go back to the context of how it was being written. Like the writer of Hebrews says, and this is uh Hebrews chapter 10, verse 25, uh, not neglecting to meet together as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day drawing near. Um, the writer of Hebrews, whether it was Paul or a different uh a different author, Um at the time he's writing that letter, is live stream an option? Is the technology there to be able to do that? And so, like, I would go back to how it was written in the time it was written. And he says, we want to consider how to stir up another to love and good works. And the way that we do that is not neglecting to meet together. Um, and I'm sure that there would be other examples of this, but again, just because the Bible doesn't speak to something directly doesn't mean that it's silent, and it doesn't mean that we should take that as a liberty to go do what we want because it didn't talk about it. Because when we read the word, right, if we look at all the letters that Paul writes, to the Ephesians, to the Corinthians, to the Galatians, to the Colossians, like to the Romans, who's he writing to? He's not writing to cities, he's writing to churches within those cities. So he didn't have to tell them, hey guys, you should go to church, because he's writing it to the churches with the expectation that just as when they were Hebrews and in the Jewish faith going to the synagogue, that they're meeting together as believers. It's just now in this convenient world that we live in that we've made it so easy for people to be a Christian. And this is something I think we need to talk about. Is a Christian and a disciple of Jesus the same thing? But it's so easy to be a Christian that we can just kind of call anything church now. And I don't think that it is.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

So I have a I have a hot term for you that I've I've thought about gray area of sin.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Is there a gray area of sin? And if so, what does that look like? And I'm gonna give you a verse for us to to think about here to chew on for a little bit. Yeah this is in Romans. This is uh Romans 14, 2. For instance, one person believes it's all right to eat anything, but another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don't. And those who don't eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. Who are you to condemn someone, someone else's servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall, and with the Lord's help, they will stand and receive his approval. To me, this is basically saying if you're convicted on it, it's a sin to do it. If you're convicted not to do it, right? Is that the case? Is this what I am I reading or interpreting this the right way? Is there a gray area of sin?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah, well, I think it's black and white in what's black and white. Yeah. So what is clearly stated and what's clearly laid out, that's black and white, right? So this is what the scripture says. Um, specifically, like I said, it's not to say that the old testament is not valuable, but the old testament speaks to things often within the context of that day. So it's speaking about things that were what we would call civic laws, which could be, you know, uh tattoos, it could be what we eat, what we drink, all these different things. So that is important, but it was also a lot of it was held to that day. So New Testament, meaning everything after the book of Matthew, which takes into account the life, the death, and the resurrection of Jesus. Anything that the New Testament is telling us, this is what we need to be following as believers. Pretty simple statement there. But for us as individuals, God is going to lead us differently. And so, yes, our convictions, I may have a conviction that says I shouldn't drink alcohol, and that's my conviction. And for the next person, maybe that's not a big deal to have a glass of wine or whatever it is. What God is speaking to me is in my personal relationship. And that's what I have to be obedient to as long as it doesn't violate the scripture and also going back to community. Maybe, maybe I feel like it's not a big deal, but the place where God has called me to be and the people he's put me around are saying, Hey, this is this is not cool, like this is not a good representation of Jesus. Do I care enough about my relationship with them and Jesus to lay something down, even if I don't have a strong personal conviction about it?

SPEAKER_03 26:30

So the black and white says, let's say drunkenness is a sin.

unknown 26:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

But my conviction, let's say, says, no, all alcohol intake for me is no good.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

If I then drink, is that a sin? I guess that's the kind of question I'm getting, but does is there a gray area of sin? And I'm not trying to actually challenge you in that. I'm genuinely curious because I think, you know, because in God's sovereign nature and he knows how everything is playing out, my my brain looks for like practical implications of things of like, oh, well, maybe he's convicted me not to have any alcohol because he knows of something down the line where I'm gonna run into a situation or some medical condition because of my alcohol intake. And like he's convicted me now. So yes, it is a sin not to do that thing that he's telling me not to do now, even though it's not in black and white in the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Yeah. If God's giving you a conviction not to do something and you do it, and then you are separating yourself from what his will is for your life. And so it does step into sin.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

And you you already said the word, and I'm gonna bring this up because this is a hot topic with with Christians today, because of the some of the with the Christian aesthetic we've talked about before, uh said the word tattoos.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Uh-huh. Yeah, I don't believe in tattoos at all.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Let me just so I I think I did notice uh you have a couple tattoos.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Um, is it a sin for Christians to have tattoos?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

No. So I would I I mean, I said that pretty quickly. Uh obviously, I don't believe that it is, or else I wouldn't have tattoos myself. Um, some would disagree with me on this, but I think this goes back to what is a civic law and what is a spiritual law. Old Testament, as I said, they're civic laws. Uh to me, it's kind of like a speed limit, right? A speed limit in 2026 is very understandable. We have it here because we we shouldn't exceed that certain speed limit. That makes sense in our context. Um, if we were to go back a hundred years ago and talk about a speed limit, they'd be like, well, my horse doesn't go that fast. So it doesn't, it doesn't really matter, right? Um, at least I don't think a horse can run 55 miles an hour. I could be could be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

But yeah, we might be on the line there. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

But um at that time, based off of where they were, the Hebrew people, in keeping that place of separation from the other nations and keeping that identity as God's holy people and chosen people, it was to not go and to intermarry. It was to not go and to serve those gods. And I'm sure that in a lot of those cases, you know, tattoos, piercings, all those things went hand in hand with the worship of other gods and other idols. And so, like, you know, it was a strict, we're not doing that. Um, there are others as well, you know, like I said, dietary things that were very specific for that time. Um, and probably some of them are still would be good for us to follow in general. But as we move into the New Testament and we move into the the spiritual laws, there are things that God said in the Old Testament, thou shalt have no other gods before me. That continued on all the way through. That wasn't specific to a point in time, that was a eternal truth that was spoken at that time that continues. So understanding context in any part of scripture is really helpful.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

By the way, you're good on the horse thing, they max out like 45 miles per hour. Nice. So we're good.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

All right.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Um, I used to own a tattoo removal company. I don't know if I told you that.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

You did.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

One of the things God has actually convicted me on is tattoos. And I kind of and I do kind of hope that a listener here who's thinking about getting a tattoo might be convicted on this. And let me tell you why from like a biological standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

I won't hear it.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

So when you get a tattoo, it gets injected into your skin, right? It sits in um the dermis. What happens is you have cells that then encapsulate the ink particles.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Your body is then trying to get rid of those ink ink particles in perpetuity, meaning for the rest of your life until you die, your immune system is tacking attacking the tattoo. That's why tattoos fade.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Is because there's a trace amount of ink particles that are taken away from the site of the tattoo and it looks faded.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

When you cut open a cadaver, someone who's passed, you will often find that those ink particles are in their lymph nodes and things like that. What I'm trying to say here is that the body processes these foreign ink particles and it has implications on our health. Now, you know, someone who has one or two tattoos, probably not as big of an implication on their body as opposed to someone who's covered head to toe. That's the biological thing. And I know that the the Bible says that our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, not to defile it, right? Yeah. That's the first thing. The second thing is I think a lot of people get tattoos out of a spirit of rebellion. Um, and so I don't, and I'm not saying it's a sin to have a tattoo. I think it can be an issue to get a tattoo, knowing, like he says that my people perish for lack of knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

I think this falls into one of those categories sometimes. I'm not saying everybody who has a tattoo is gonna have some health condition down the road. I just think it's something that needs to be approached more cautiously.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

To go to go along with what you what you said, like there are other things too, where I touched on the dietary things. And so the restrictions on the dietary things that that God spoke to them, whether it's um like the shellfish or the scavengers, right, that are that are eating all of the disgusting things in the ocean, right? Even like lobster, we love lobster or whatever. Um even pork, like there are certain people who have you know restrictions on eating pork even now. They're not the healthiest things for you. They're there are certain things that I just don't believe were meant to be eaten and to be digested.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

98% of our diets today, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

So, so the more that I've learned about that, the more that I'm like, okay. So it makes sense that God would have given them that restriction even then. And so I would go so far as to say that you could be you could be right when it comes to tattoos. It wasn't a conviction that I had, certainly not out of a place of rebellion because it's mostly my kids' names and Bible verses.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

No, but I'm saying a lot of people do get out of rebellion unknowingly, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

It's but like to to your point though, in terms of what the physical implications can be, if God knows those far better than us, then even still following some of those restrictions would be beneficial, except if we're talking about like women can't cover walk out without covering their head, right? Like those kind of things that are a little bit more restrictive in nature based off of appearance, because the time they were living in and the nations that they were surrounded with, and there may be even more, you know, I haven't done a deep dive on this, um, but I think it's a good conversation to have, and making sure that we are bringing even the the seemingly insignificant things before God to allow him to speak into them uh is a really good way of going about following Jesus and being a disciple.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

I'll tell you what, if there's anything that's gonna get us comments, is me talking bad about tattoos because I talked about it once briefly on some video on my own personal page. Yeah, and people were in the comments.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

I'm just listening I want to hear all the comments on this.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

I'm no, there's a lot of Christians who are like, you're absolutely wrong. Like, I'm being judgmental. I'm just I'm just presenting my information that I know about the human body because of my previous profession. Yeah, and I'm just thinking from a common sense perspective. And also at the end of the day, does it pass the litmus litmus test of WWJ D? You know, yeah. And once again, it's not to judge you because you have tattoos or the but like it's let's think about the implications of these, especially something that's quote unquote permanent. And and even like I when I started my business, I got a tattoo of my logo just to remove it as like a marketing thing. Because people would always come in, like, does this work? Yeah, well, I got my logo and now it's hated. But if I touch it, there's a scar. So even though the ink is gone, yeah, whenever we get a tattoo, it leaves a scar. So I just offer that to people that if you're thinking about getting a tattoo, pray pray on it. Go to the Holy Spirit first. Yeah. If he convicts you, there's probably a very important reason behind it. So that's that's kind of you know, and I don't want to go down an exhaustive list of all the things that fall into the potential gray area of sin. These are just some of the things I have a little bit more understanding about because of my own personal experience.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

And I I just think the way we have these conversations matter because it, you know, the tendency would be to get defensive and be like, no, you're wrong. Like I have tattoos, obviously, it's fine. But like, because that's my my thought process doesn't mean that it has to be somebody else's. And if I did something in error and it's still something that God cares about and I did it anyway, well, then I'm accountable to that. So I think it's it's interesting. I certainly didn't even know what you just brought up in terms of the the scientific aspect of it. Um, but whether God spoke it then or now, it definitely has a purpose. And even for us just to learn and to be able to look back and to see why he spoke what he spoke when he spoke it in the context of it is certainly a worthwhile endeavor.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

I think the real message here is like, what is your personal conviction through the Holy Spirit? You know, we talked about um the Christian aesthetic and Christian clothing. Yeah, the praise of the church. I wore one today. It is finished. Amen. Um, that's something that people I think do too flippantly. And and this is why it's so important to recognize your identity in Christ, have the mind of Christ, live that out in your lifestyle, and start from a place there. But we all sin. My issue with the Christian clothing, and I do wear it, but I'm much more intentional now because there's people observing you all the time, even when you're not aware of it. Yeah. The road rage incidents, you know, um, if you're checking a girl out at the gym, whatever it is, and now you're wearing this thing that says Yahweh on it, or trust God, yeah, or your favorite Bible verse. Yeah, you might be the only example of the gospel that someone ever witnesses in that moment. Yep. And I think that's what he he says is better to be cast into the sea with a millstone around our neck. That is that's something that's weighed on me very heavily.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

So, what's the what's the context between that that scripture and the and the Christian aesthetic? Just leading the conviction astray.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

No, like the conviction. Like, what is the conviction behind what you're doing? Like, like, and I think really it's not just conviction, but be intentional. You know, even it whether it's a tattoo that's permanent or a shirt you're gonna wear for a day. Yeah, be intentional.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah, I agree. And I think this is you know, I just touched on it a little bit before, but like when we taught about discipleship in our church, we said, you know, is there a difference between being a Christian and being a disciple? And to me, there shouldn't be, there shouldn't be a separation between the two. But many would say, I'm a Christian, I follow Jesus, I go to church. But is that the same as being a disciple of Jesus? And I would say that those two things can be different. And what we recognize in terms of our pursuit of Jesus and how we actually pledge allegiance to him is going to determine the amount of weight that I put in what he says, in my convictions. So if I'm just a Christian and it's the same to me as being a member of my local gym or club or a Yankee fan or whatever it is, if that's what that means to me, then well, I'm not really gonna give him a voice in decisions like should I get a tattoo or not get a tattoo? Should I date this person or not? Like that's that's something that people should spend a lot more time, especially. Well, yeah, exactly. But you know, dating to Mary. Um, is this the person that I should be with? And I know people think about it a lot, but thinking about it and praying about it are two different things. Um, and so we should be stepping from a place of believing in Jesus to following Jesus. And that's what Jesus said is he showed up to uh first, it was um Andrew and Peter and James and John and and said, Follow me. And they had the option to say, Yes, we will follow you, which meant leaving everything else behind and following him, or they could have just gone back to what they were doing. Matthew, the tax collector, follow me. Like he didn't get to just say, Oh, well, I'm still gonna keep going back to my nine to five, and I'll come and follow you on the weekends, Jesus. No, they actually followed him, they gave their lives to following him and eventually physically gave their lives because they followed him. And to me, that's you know, discipleship is much more than just a belief system.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Makes me think of the idea of being someone after God's own heart. I think about David.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Like him sleeping with a married woman and then murdering her husband.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

And seemingly not even like realizing the sin of it in the moment until he was confronted.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:30

But still being a man after God's own heart.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

And I I don't know, because it seems like there's a there's a paradox there of like what we do in contrast to who we are as a disciple, is we're gonna mess up. And he's gonna use broken people and and imperfect people for purpose.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

So I guess my question is like how how do how do we how do we live out the life of a disciple in 2026 at this time? Um knowing that we're gonna mess up, right? Knowing that we're gonna sin.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

What does that look like practically?

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah, I it just makes me think um about something. I believe it was as I was preaching on Good Friday, and it's interesting as I'm preparing messages. Sometimes I feel like as I'm writing something or preparing something, I'm like, oh, that wasn't even my own thought. Like I I wasn't thinking about this, or I didn't have the the wisdom to be able to look at this from this perspective. But we get so concentrated sometimes on what we're doing that we lose sight of who we are, and we've talked about this concept a few times. If I get the being part right, being my pursuit of Jesus as a son or a daughter, even when I make a mistake or I fall short or I do something that isn't up to the standard that I think I should have, or he says that I should have, he still somehow has the opportunity and the ability, I should say, to bless that thing. Even when I come up short. Because I do believe that my devotion to him, my life before him, the the laying down of my life in terms of the decisions that I'm gonna make and bringing him into those things, even if I don't live it out perfectly, he can still use it because he's just that good and he's not limited to our perfection, or else he would never be able to do anything through us. And so, as you were saying that, it just made me think about that. Like we have the ability to, in our devotion to God, that even in our mistakes and even in our places where we come up short, that God can use that. And when David sins, and it says that Nathan the prophet comes up and speaks to him about what he has done, and and he sees the error in what he did, which is just like I said, crazy that he didn't see it initially, because that's that's major, major in every sense of the word, from adultery to murder. Um he goes to the Lord and says, God, I've sinned against no one but you. And you're like, wait a second, you sinned against quite a few people, very clearly in this moment. But his primary place of repentance was in what he did in his relationship with God, that he did anything to disrupt his relationship with God. And that is, I think, something that we need to take into account in our own lives, is that that relationship with him is paramount above anything else. And I'm gonna make mistakes and I'm gonna make a mess, and I'm gonna have to deal with the consequences, I'm gonna have to go into repentance and ask forgiveness. But my number one priority is my relationship with him and then trusting that even in the places where I fail, which I will, when I allow him to come in and to restore and to bring healing, uh, he can even use those moments for his for his good.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

It reminds me of a season of my life a couple of years ago where I really messed up and it was tearing me apart. And God was speaking to me. He was trying to correct me. Yeah, there were consequences spiritually, emotionally, everything, you know. And I was trying to, oh no, I repented. I don't want, I don't want the consequence, I don't want the correction.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

I remember I was driving, I was crying out till I was praying. All he said to me was if you're not willing to listen to my correction, don't ask me for my guidance. And that really spoke to me. Yeah. Um, because I've always wanted to listen to him when like things are good.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

But when he starts correcting me, yeah, yeah, or I start suffering the context. Consequence of my sin. That's a whole different story.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah, and that it's actually a promise in scripture that God disciplines those whom he loves. And uh that's something that we should keep in mind. Um, another verse in Hebrews, we've been spending quite a bit of time in the book of Hebrews, but to have this understanding that the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and it says that he chastises every son whom he receives. And just because we have grace, which we do, which is beautiful. I love how Wes Huff described it. He said, Um, mercy is not getting what we deserve, justice is getting what we do deserve, and grace is getting what we don't deserve. And so we have that mercy in that, like the the just penalty of our sin is death, but Jesus gives us life still and salvation. Um we don't actually get the justice of what we deserve because of what he has done for us, but grace is being able to live out of the abundance of what he gives us, and so even in we operate in mercy and then grace, it unfortunately for us doesn't mean that there aren't places of correction and discipline where we have to walk out the consequences of what we did because that's actually what's going to change us. I could want to change, but I'm very rarely going to change unless there is an external force or something that is pushing me to say, no, you need to change.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

What does that punishment look like, though, or correction or consequence? Obviously, there's worldly, you know, we reap what we sow, we see that as a as a process or a spiritual truth. Um because, you know, we're not supposed to necessarily keep record of wrong. We're supposed to look towards the future, keep our minds on things above, things that are good, pleasant, right? So when I sin, then I may feel some regret or guilt. Yeah. I know that shame can be a tool from the enemy, but is there utility in those two? Like is is that part of the consequence or the correction? Is it's is the emotional turmoil, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Yeah, I think that that remorse, that place of just recognizing who I am and and finding that place of oh God, I let you down. And once again, David. I mean, he's like the key figure in in what we look at in terms of you know how he expresses himself in the Psalms. God, I've I've sinned against no one but you, and recognizing that that place of of failure in the natural has created any kind of separation between me and him. I can't speak for anybody else, but like discipline from God in my life feels like that. It's that place of just Holy Spirit conviction, like, oh, I messed up. And it's not that I messed up and I'm worried about what that's going to do in my day-to-day life. It's the fact that I have somehow let him down. I've I've somehow done something that was detrimental in my relationship with him when he's given everything for me. Um it can go beyond that, but I would say for me, that's the primary way that that that looks like it's that that internal recognition of I messed up.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Is there a timeline to that? Like how long are we supposed to sit in that or not sit in it?

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Uh just very honest, for me, it's not very long. Um I would say thankfully, by the grace of God, I haven't walked into any situations that I've had to undergo really severe discipline. Um, and I pray that I don't ever need to in like the big ways that we would think of, um, which I think is just a byproduct of the little places of discipline, of recognizing I don't ever want to do something that's gonna cause that kind of um pain. But hey, it does happen. I've talked to really good friends that have walked through really difficult things, they've made decisions. Um, but for me, when I recognize that there's something that I've I've done wrong and I go to the Lord with it, I I really truly recognize I I can repent for this thing, but in my repentance, I want to change the way I thought about it so I don't do it again. And I see myself being covered by the blood of Jesus. Like he paid the price, so I don't have to continue in this. And if it's something that needs to be continually addressed, then it's something that goes back to my thinking that is something's not right. And then what he's done is he'll bring in other people in my life and be like, hey, just I want you to look at this thing. You know, this thing you did, this way you spoke, this reaction that you had, not good.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

I was just gonna say it sounds to me like it definitely uh the repetition or a habitual sin is obviously gonna warrant more time in right. Where if you know you've you've messed up, you've been remorseful, you've acknowledged why it's wrong, which I think is an important part of the repentance process, not just saying I'm sorry, but like why, how, like what do I do differently? That's all part of that repentance process. I think if you know in your heart your intention has changed and you're convicted that you're not going to do that thing again, that probably consolidates the amount of time that you're gonna sit in that.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Yeah. There may be things that we don't see. I mean, it's possible that maybe we were called to to go to a certain place to operate in a certain area, and we are not seeing that take place because we've lived in a place of unforgiveness or we've lived in a place of habitual sin. Um, that's certainly possible as well. And maybe that only becomes clear in retrospect. Uh, but as the Holy Spirit enlightens us and reveals these things to us, the best thing we could do is just deal with it immediately. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

So I'm big on anti-goals.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Okay. I haven't heard that phrase before.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

So everybody obviously everybody sets goals. Yeah. I think it's important to set anti-goals. What are some of the things that you want to avoid? Now, this can be a little slippery slope because you know, I say don't think of a pink elephant, you know, you're gonna think of the pink elephant, but I think it's important to navigate away from things and also towards things. Okay. Um, let's say I want to go to hell. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. What's the fastest way?

SPEAKER_00 50:28

To go to hell. Deny Jesus as as Lord and Savior.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

And then what is that, what does that look like from an ongoing capacity? Let's say, let's say uh I've I've believed in Jesus, maybe I've walked in the faith, uh, I've dabbled my toe in Christianity. Um, do I lose that ticket? Like, can I go back to hell?

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Like, like, how do I if you deny Jesus, you're not gonna have to do anything to see what the natural ramifications of that are going to be, because you're you're gonna find it very quickly. And obviously, nobody who I'm gonna say this is a blanket statement. I could be wrong about this. In my opinion, anyone who really knows Jesus, like for me, there is no world in which I go away from him, turn my back. Like, death in front of me, there is nothing that can get me to deny him because it's just the reality of who he is. Um, but Romans chapter one talks about the fact that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who, by their unrighteousness, suppress the truth for what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them, for his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world. They're without excuse. And then he goes on to talk about they didn't believe in God, they exchanged the truth of who God was for a lie, which is what would have to happen if we were gonna deny Christ. And then it tells us all the things that they gave themselves into and God gave them over to. And so, yeah, if you were to deny Christ, there is a list right here of all the things that you're going to do. It's the not the anti-goals, it's the anti-fruit of the spirit.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

Yeah, I didn't, I I didn't put that, uh, I didn't put that little sound bite on our on our pre-show notes, so I could I can I could say that in real time. Um, but it but in all seriousness, it's like let's look, let's look at practically as the anti-way of a disciple.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Like what it what is the things that we don't want to be doing.

SPEAKER_03 52:38

Yeah, what are what are some of the like the things that we don't want to be doing?

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Yeah, um, selfishness, uh having everything be about us. It's a very quick way to make it not be about God and to not be about others. Jesus said, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength, everything you got. Love your neighbor as yourself. Well, if you start loving yourself more than everybody else, then you're going to be deviating from the example of Jesus. Jesus said, if you want to be the greatest in the kingdom, you're going to be a servant to all. Well, be a servant to yourself. Look out for your own good. Um, take advantage of people. That's a really good way to go against the gospel. Because throughout scripture, God's a God of justice. He does not in any way tolerate us taking advantage of the needy, of the poor. Um, so take advantage of people and and live out of that place. That's a pretty good way of deviating. Um, go into a place where you are you start to deny his lordship. And so there's there's a whole list of things in this world right now that we could promote that God doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Yeah, yeah, there's there's so much that we could do. So, but um, if we make ourselves the God, like there there is a throne, and there is a throne in our heart. If God's on the throne, then our life is going to reflect that. If we move ourselves into the throne, everything that we don't want to be is going to be what comes out of our life.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

I think this brings up to what we were talking about in the previous episode was where your focus goes. I think this is where the enemy gets us sometimes. You think something is good. I think it was uh Pastor Bobby Hargraves who I first heard this from. He said, uh, sometimes a good thing is a bad thing if it keeps you from the best thing.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

You know, so you may have a really fun, cool hobby. Yeah, right. But are you placing too much too much time and energy in that? Where's your where is your focus going?

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Um so self-righteousness, number one seems pretty important, right? Avoid that.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Is insecurity on that spectrum of pride and self-righteousness?

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Insecurity can produce it, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

Like because to me, insecurity, and I and I heard this recently, it made sense. It's like, yeah, it's actually on the spectrum of pride because I'm so concerned with how I'm perceived by other people. I don't recognize my identity in Christ, who I am as a child of God. And it's actually putting it all on me, what I can do. And so that's actually a form of pride. I I asked because recently I was talking to someone who was going back to church for the first time in a while, and they felt really insecure. Like they're not as connected as everybody else. I saw someone else crying, I saw someone else lifting their hands up. I don't feel that. Yeah, and so they go into insecurity and and how they were perceived. Well, what if people don't like see me as someone who's as close to God?

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Yeah. And I think that's super common. Yeah, I think that's dangerous. Yeah, it is. Um, that's the comparison aspect of it. I think that insecurity is detrimental in what it produces, but I think the the place where it can bring us into what's wrong is where we're not allowing God to deal with the root of the insecurity. Um insecurity is is very often a result of trauma or some brokenness, but it's always wrong belief systems. And so if I'm insecure because I don't truly believe who God says that I am, or haven't taken the time to examine those things in my life, the places where I believe that I'm a failure or I'm not good enough, then I will constantly keep going back to what I'm not. And yeah, if we don't deal with that, the the fruit of that is always going to be disconnection because it is, you're sure you're right. It's going to be focused on me, what I'm not, what I don't have. So, yes, it's important that we, and this is where the Holy Spirit is a genius. He will reveal these things to us if we're looking. And then more importantly, than just finding it, he'll give us the tools that we need to be able to step away from those wrong belief systems.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

Yeah, now with social media and just just the modern culture today of do more, have more, this is who I am. I'm fans, whatever it is. It's like everything is pointing back to identity and everybody's trying to find themselves.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

And it's never been more apparent than right now in 2026 that this is the antidote. Yeah. Right. Your identity in Christ. That solves for all of it. I get to outsource my identity to the creator of the universe. I don't have to worry about what car I drive or how much money I have or whatever, you know?

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

And that's such a it's such an easier place to be. Like I said last time. It's I don't know. And I think I think people are really struggling with identity nowadays nowadays. Even Christians who know that their identity should be in Christ, they're struggling to even believe what the Bible says about them.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Yeah. And it's even more detrimental when we realize that there already is the identity that's been established. So anything else is a counterfeit. Anything else is if you think about the the greatest work of art, and we'll just say the Mona Lisa, right? Um, I'm sure that there are other even more, you know, amazing ones. And then you think about what a six-year-old would draw, and you like hold them up next to each other. That's kind of what it looks like when we go for our own identity over the masterpiece. God has the the purpose, the identity, the masterpiece view that He has of you. And we're like, yeah, but I think I'm actually gonna go with this one over here. And so we start to design it ourselves. Um, it's a it's a counterfeit, it's less than what God has for us, and it really is something that um the enemy wins when we buy into the lies that he has about us.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

Yeah. So what are practical ways then? Because you talk about being a disciple and how that plays out in the real world. But like, I also it sounds to me like there has to be practical ways to to kind of reprogram my mind and with with with the knowledge of who I am as a disciple. Like, yeah, can you speak to that? Like, what are some practical ways to to solidify, I guess, our identity?

SPEAKER_00 59:05

If you've known me for any length of time, you'll know that one of my favorite verses in the world is is uh found in Romans chapter 12, verse 2. And yeah, don't be conformed to the ways of thinking of this world, but be transformed by the renewal of our mind. And so, to me, there's a few things that go into this, but um, one thing that we talked about in our church when we were going through the study of discipleship is what are the disciplines of a disciple? So, a spiritual discipline is the behavior which we submit ourselves to in order to grow in dependency on Jesus and transformation into what he has created us to be. So, just a couple in terms of just examples. Having times of solitude and silence, having times where we are disconnecting from the sources, the inputs of the world, the social medias, the YouTubes, everything, the news, everything else. Time where we're just alone with Jesus. There's no better way to kind of recenter ourselves on who he is than cutting off everything else. And it doesn't mean we have to do this for hours a day, but making sure we have specific time to do that. Um, in that time, going into prayer. And if you don't know how to pray really, the Our Father is a beautiful starting point, but don't just rattle it off like you know, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Like, think about what you're saying. Break that down in the fact that we're first coming to God, our Father, who art in heaven, holy is your name, your kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Just taking that time of really speaking the words that Jesus taught us to pray, and then allowing that to go from there. Studying the Bible, meditating on the word, journaling, taking the time to break it down even further, fasting, and then good stewardship where we put our money. Like those are disciplines that are supposed to really encapsulate the life of a believer, which separate us from what the kind of the normal operating system and shift us into that place of following him.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

Yeah, and two two things I want us to do in the future if you're down for it and for the listeners, listening. Um, as I love to do a deep dive in one, like programming ourselves with the mind of Christ. That may be a little like weird language I'm using. You get what I'm saying. And then um also um how to heal what I call, and I I don't, and maybe you correct me if I'm wrong biblically, how to heal soul wounds, right? Specifically from like trauma, things that have affected us. Because I think, or I know that trauma is one of the biggest enemies to identity. Yeah, right. Things happen to us, things are said to us, we witness things that tell us to believe something about ourselves that's not aligned with the word of God.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:07

Can we touch on that briefly? Because you mentioned the word trauma before, things that happen to us. How does it affect our identity and then ultimately how we live our lives as Christians?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

Yeah. The woman at the well comes to mind. Jesus comes up to the well, she's out there in the middle of the day, um, separated, isolated. She's not in community. She's out there at the hottest part of the day because, as we're going to find out as we read the account, um, she doesn't have relationship with the other women. Uh, they come early when it's cool. She's out there in the middle, uh the middle of the day, and she's drawing water. And then Jesus comes up to her and starts to speak to her, asks her for water. Um, eventually he speaks to her and says, Listen, you know, she says, Well, you know, uh, he said, You're right in saying that you don't have a husband, you've all had multiple people that you're with. And he starts to speak to the reality that he would have no idea of outside of this word of knowledge, um, being God and God himself certainly helped in that in that matter. And what we see is this hurting woman. She's out there, she's had multiple relationships, affairs, whatever it is. He says the woman you're the man you're living with right now is not even your husband. She's in deep pain. She's in in trauma, but she's still hungry. She's just calloused. She's just like, you know, looking at looking at Jesus and and not even feeling any level of of uh, I would say, validation for who she is. And you can just see this in the way she's responding. And Jesus says to her, ultimately, if if you knew who you were speaking to, you would ask me for water. Because I have the living water that will never run dry, it'll never run out. And so she said, Sir, give me this water. Like I want this. And the the ultimate thing is that as he it feels kind of like exposing her, but as he speaks to who she really is, he's bringing to the surface belief systems that she has about herself. And then he's giving her the ability to step into hope, to step into something in that moment that she hasn't felt in so long. And she ends up walking away, going to her town and saying, Come and meet this man who told me everything that I've ever done. And the the people of her community have the ability to walk into salvation because of Jesus. All of that to say, our pain, our wounding, it will keep, it will cause us to separate from others. It will cause us to isolate, it will cause us to go into shame and depression and anxiety and everything else. But when we meet Jesus and we recognize that he knows who we are, and yet he still offers us the water that we need to survive, the living water that will never run dry. It gives us the ability to find hope and to realize, oh, there's something more. And now we want to tell everybody. It's just a really beautiful depiction of what that can look like to not know who I am, to walk in brokenness, to meet Jesus, and to realize, oh, he's got a lot more for me than I ever realized.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:31

You you talk about the woman at the will actually kind of confirms something that God brought to my attention as I was meditating one day about trauma, about soul wounds and things like that. And by the way, real quick, it do we like the term soul wounds? Is that too it's fine? Okay, yeah. Soul, mind, will, emotions, there's things that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:50

I was meditating one day, and he gave me kind of this uh visual of a soul wound, like the architecture of a soul wound that looked like a bullseye or a target. And as you were talking about the At the well, it's like she couldn't see the truth because she had believed the lie because of the trauma and because of her sin, right? The bullseye for me in the center is the immovable truth. The next layer to that is the lie that you learn to believe about yourself, about your identity, because of the trauma, because of the sin.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

Outside of that is another layer of unforgiveness, bitterness, resentment. And then ultimately, what's overall of that is Jesus, right? Knowing who we are, yeah, believing in him, a living water. Once we believe in him, give our life to Christ, take of that living water, once we resolve for unforgiveness, yeah, and let go of the resentment and the bitterness, then we can uncover what the true lie is, which then identifies or exposes the truth.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:55

And so it to me, it highlights this process. And so for you, if you could you double click into that, like is it am I making sense here? Like with that visual, does that like what is the process to let's say resolve a soul wound specifically? Like if we're gonna get surgical about this, yeah. What is the step-by-step process? Someone has trauma, someone has saying that's affected their identity in Christ now. What is that step-by-step process?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

I would say first we have to realize that there is something there, which to me, the easiest way to do that is to look at the places in my life where there's some kind of disconnection, um, pain in relationships that keeps happening over and over again, even places where like, why does this keep happening to me? Okay, realize that there's probably something there if you're the common denominator. So uh usually that is going to reveal or always a lie that I believe to be true about myself. Something in me where I have developed a belief system based off of something I've been through in the past, something I've walked through. And then I want to ask the question when did I start believing that? Is that something I've believed for a long time? Is that something that I just recently started to do? Or is this like something that from the time I was a child, I've been kind of seeing this pattern in my life? Um, what decisions have I made based off of that belief system? Like if we believe something to be true about ourselves that is not good, then we're gonna have to do something in response, which is to protect ourselves, to put forward a barrier or a front to try to keep people from seeing that I'm really not good enough. So, what did I do about that? Um, and then to realize that that's probably there because somebody has hurt us, caused us pain, a parent, a loved one. It could be something really significant or it could be something pretty simple. But either way, there's somebody in there that I'm gonna have to forgive. And that's something I can only do with God's help. And then the final thing that I have to do is I have to recognize that whatever that lie is, whatever that belief system, the protection, I've got to renounce it. I have to come out of agreement with it. Because the only way the lie has the power to do something in my life is if I'm in agreement with it. So I recognize, oh, I've been believing this to be true about myself because I went through that thing as a kid, but it doesn't actually make any sense. Like I made that decision as a seven or eight-year-old who didn't know anything. I'm not gonna believe that anymore. I'm gonna actually come out of agreement with that thing. I'm gonna break the contract with that thing. And these are simple steps, but they're only done with the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:44

We're gonna do a whole training on this. I'm gonna convince you if even if you don't agree right now, we're gonna be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

I'm here for it. I think it's so, so important. Yeah. And for people to be able to learn how to do this on their own, even is really, really valuable.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

Yeah, this is a good reminder for me to uh I forget to give call to actions on these episodes. Uh definitely like and subscribe this uh this episode if you're watching on YouTube. Um, because the more people do that, the more you like the the show. Um the more you double tap the screen if it's on like a short form content, the more it gets it out. The algorithm picks it up. Um, also I want to take this time to remind people that um on Wednesdays I do like kind of a deep dive into all these sort of topics, specifically around like um mindset as a Christian, these soul wound topics. Um, is and we align it with make sure it's aligned with scripture. Um, but that's every Wednesday at 3 p.m. York time. Um so people can check out uh Creator and Co. Um, you can check out my socials and you can get access to that. Um, but as we kind of close on this episode here, we've talked a lot a lot about discipleship, what it looks like practically. And there's I'm sure this episode actually left people with a lot more questions than they came there with, and I think that's really good. One of the questions that I always have in this modern era of technology is AI. And I catch myself sometimes relying too heavily on it. Yeah. Um, can you speak to the Christian who is in you know uh conflict about this, or there's something in them that like, I want to use it a tool, but you know, I don't want to I don't want to outsource my discernment, let's say. Yeah, you know, how how how do how should a Christian utilize AI in today's day and age?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

Use it as a tool. Yeah, don't use it as the source. Um, if it's a tool, money is a tool, uh, gifts, talents, they can be tools, but if it's relied upon before we go to God, then then it's taken the place of priority. Um, if you're trying to figure out how to fix your washing machine, then use AI. If you're trying to figure out how to fix your relationship, go to Jesus. If you're trying to figure out, you know, the what what you need to to do to plan for this upcoming thing, you know, great, use it as a tool. Um, but when it comes to our our first response, I have a challenge, where do I go to first? If it's to grab, you know, an AI model and to use that instead of you know going to the word of God and saying, what does God say about it, or asking him or praying, or even going to somebody I trust, then it's moving into a place of of priority that it shouldn't be in.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:21

I think AI is a great tool for Christians as almost like a search tool, first and foremost, is like, hey, I'm struggling with X, Y, and Z. What are the specific Bible verses on that? And then you and then go to the Bible, right? Um, I think the biggest danger for Christians using AI is the 1% of lie or deception that's in it. Because it'll sound good and 99% of it's gonna be biblically accurate, but it's just like let's say going to a psychic or a medium who tells you 99% truth or something that is factual, and we could go on a whole tangent about you know that side of things, but it's the one percent that leads you astray. Yeah. And that's the trouble with AI.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

Yeah, and the fact that it tells you what you want to hear.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:03

It's very, yeah, it's very uh confirming.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

You can you can ask it for a scripture on anything and it will make one up for you if you really want it. Yeah, so it it tells you what you want to hear, so you have to be aware that 1% or whatever that that deviation is from the truth. Um, it's it's gotta be backed up with the standard. And so the more we know what God says in the Word, the more that we'd be able to catch the places where it's not telling the truth.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:31

It it brings up social media too. I mean, social media is not too far off from a conversation from AI because now more than ever, I think it's great that there's this proliferation of Christian content and Christian content creators, just like me. I'm not infallible. I don't know who that dude is who just went viral, you know. So, how do we solve for that? Because I my algorithm is full of Christian content.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:54

Yeah, you know, yeah. Uh, and some of it could even be AI generated, which is very interesting. Um be careful who you are giving access to in your life in terms of their voice, or at least in what what place you're putting them in, what's the ranking? Um, it's good to be looking for you know good content, Christian content creators. Um, but they should be maybe fourth or fifth on the list, you know, uh the Bible, uh, your your local church, your community, people you trust that are following God with you, like they should all take priority over the latest, you know, viral clip or whatever that is, because what you're hearing online could be amazing. It could be exactly what you need to hear in the moment. I know people who have got saved from watching a clip online. God will use anything like that. Um, but as we walk in maturity and we grow, it should be that we have the proper order and the right people speaking into our lives. And so if you don't have community, which we either talked about this in this episode or before, find a good church that believes the Bible, walks in the truth. And that way, you're not solely relying upon AI or social media to give you truth. You've got other places that God's called you to walk in community, to have spiritual leaders and people who are farther ahead than you to be able to walk you through those things.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:21

And I mean, the the biggest point there is like start here. Yes, you know, yes, and then everything else is secondary. Yeah. So let's leave the person listening with something granular, practical, easy to follow. I want you to talk about 24 hours in a day, the next 24 hours, yeah, the person listening to this, yeah. What it what should it look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:44

Yeah. Find a time specifically, like that you have said this is time that I'm gonna spend with God. And before you go to bed the night before, create that space. Get your Bible, open it up to the passage. I'm opening up to Romans chapter one right now. We were talking about that. That's a great place to start. Start in John chapter one, start in any of the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. Start there, open your Bible up to it, get your notebook ready, get your pen ready, have your coffee preset in the morning and plan on doing it. Set your alarm and get ready for it. Because this is something that if you fail to plan for, you are gonna fail to do it, is just the reality of it, because life gets too busy. Create some time that you're gonna spend with God. But then don't feel like I just have to read a chapter and just check the box and say I'm done with it. Read it. But if something stands out to you, write it down and take the time to say, God, like I don't fully get this, or I do get it, but I want to get it more. Or what were you saying in this? Take the time to allow the Bible to do what it's meant to do, which is not just to be a quick snack, but a meal that feeds us and to get deeper. So spend that time allowing him to speak. And then I would say at multiple points throughout the day, just return back to it. Just go back to that verse that you read and just think about it. Like that simple action that doesn't require a whole lot of our time is such a beautiful uh aspect of being able to walk with God. Um, to me, I love worship. Like, go to Spotify and type in worship, you know, go to the your local church, watch the live stream, whatever it is. Um, my good friend Joshua Malachi just came out with a new single called Holy. Beautiful. Check it out. Giving him a plug right here. Um, take that time and just be present with him or just turn off the radio completely. Spend some time just thinking about what you're thinking about and allow God to speak into those places. Those things to me are practical, they're they're simple, but if they were more routine, we would have so much more input from God because we're making space for him intentionally.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:01

So daily read scripture, daily pray, daily meditate on what you've read and prayed about, which is like a it's like a it's a pondering, right? Yes, I think there's a structured meditation that we can do, um, but it's like that chewing on the verse and applying it to your life that day, your circumstances, um, and worship.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:24

So those are kind of four sounds, four really practical ways. Um, and I think each one of those, we go deeper, there's gonna be spiritual layers and understanding and spiritual technology below each that we're gonna dive into. So um, this is great. I I love this conversation. I I could talk for hours about the practical side of things, and sometimes that's to my own detriment.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

Um but you need that, but you need it, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:49

Both and I I guess what I would like to leave the uh the listener with today is like, are you following Jesus or are you following your emotions? And are you being obedient even when it's uncomfortable? Or the moment that it gets uncomfortable, are you shying away? Because we want bold Christians listening to this podcast, right? We want people who are um not just Christians but disciples of all nations, yes, right? Um, amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:15

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:15

All right, can you pray us out of here?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:16

I'd love to. Yeah, Lord Jesus, I thank you for whoever's listening, whether they are someone who has walked with you deeply for years or they are finding their journey, that you would give them just such a sense of what you're calling them to, that there is greater things that you're calling them to, Lord Jesus. And it's not in their own strength or perfection, but it's by your grace through what you did on the cross, Lord Jesus, through your death and your resurrection. So we receive that today in full. I pray that you would bless them and be with them. We pray all these things in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:45

Amen.