Spiritual Warfare Explained | Dangerous Faith & Christian Boldness

In this episode, Anthony Serino and pastor Sam Edwards explore what it means to become spiritually “hard to kill” through dangerous faith, bold obedience, and intimacy with Jesus Christ.

They discuss spiritual warfare, taking every thought captive, renewing the mind, overcoming habitual sin, and why modern Christianity often lacks true discipleship and spiritual authority.

Topics include:

• Spiritual warfare and demonic influence
• Taking thoughts captive through the Holy Spirit
• Why sin leads to spiritual death
• Fear of God vs simply “loving God”
• Why works don’t save—but reveal transformation
• Breaking cycles of habitual sin and false beliefs
• Deliverance, discernment, and spiritual authority
• Identity in Christ and bold Christian living
• Friendship, influence, and Christian community

If you’ve struggled with mental battles, temptation, fear, or spiritual stagnation, this conversation offers practical biblical insight into living with dangerous faith in today’s world.

00:00 Bold Faith Warfare 

01:37 Golf Lessons Spiritual 

02:47 Realigning With Spirit 

04:27 Thoughts Emotions Authority 

10:57 Hard To Kill Armor 

12:47 Fearing God Lordship 

20:14 Sin Leads To Death 

25:11 Works Versus Faith 

32:50 Hypocrisy And Discipleship 

35:40 Breaking Habitual Sin 

37:11 Healing Root Beliefs 

39:05 Learned Patterns vs Warfare 

40:58 Holy Spirit Exposure 

42:37 Everyday Manifestations 

46:44 Caution and Authority 

51:13 Calling and Deliverance 

55:13 Dangerous Mustard Faith 

01:02:39 Boldness Through Identity 

01:07:31 Friendships and Influence 

01:13:30 Prayer and Sendoff

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We walk around with the God of the universe and the understanding that we've been created for and with a purpose. It is the best reality that anyone could ever experience. And we keep our mouth shut because we've been forced into it through intimidation.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

When you're the guy, when you're the person who's like, you know what, I'm gonna be bold in my faith, I'm gonna go to evangelism, I'm gonna go be a disciple. There's gonna be an opposing force that gets more apparent.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

I can have my own understanding of what it looks like to be a Christian, but if it violates what God has said, then I have to come to terms with one of them is right and one of them is wrong.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

And you can't be moving towards death and life at the same time. You can only be moving in one direction. And your thoughts are either orientated towards life, towards Jesus, towards eternity, or towards death and suffering and separation.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

When the Holy Spirit is invited in the other dynamics, let's say it's a demonic force, it gets really uncomfortable. Because nothing in the demonic has any authority over anything of who God is, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:06

When I say dangerous to faith, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I like dangerous faith because to me, dangerous faith means it's dangerous to the kingdom of darkness.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Very competitive.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Very competitive. Yeah. I think that it has subsided a little bit now that I'm gonna be 40. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I don't know if it's actually true or if I've just focused it in on like golf. Yeah. Which is just a little bit different than like any kind of contact sport.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

And golf is tough because it's as much a mental game as it is uh a physical game. Yeah, right. It's tough. I I get so frustrated on the golf course and I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

I hit two 300 yard drives the other day. I was in heaven. Not to brag or anything. No, well, I mean, this is the part that's the reality check though. I I basically bogeied the first one that I did. I was able to rescue it, and the second one I definitely double bogeyed. And I'm like, so hitting the ball far doesn't mean anything if you can't actually get it close on your next shot. Yeah. So I have a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

It kind of reminds me of like my walk with my faith. It's like I'm good for eight holes.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

And then on the ninth hole, I hit one way out of bounds off the T.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

And then I'm ruined for the back nine.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

I I completely agree with that. It's like you're moving along, everything's going well. You feel like your relationship with God is just flowing, it's coming easy, and you have that one moment and you've got to like fight to get it back.

unknown 2:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

How do you get it? I don't even know how I've how I've got only by the grace of God do I get reeled back in, you know, because I feel like shame takes over if it's due to sin or you know, disappointment happens a lot.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

How do you how do you get it back?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I think you recognize what's actually happening in that moment. It's not just that you're in the middle of like chaos. You're your internal man, your internal world has come out of alignment with the spirit of God. And so when you can see that and realize I'm not just a physical being that experiences physical manifestations of frustration or anger, that I have a spirit inside of me that is meant to connect with God. And then, as we've talked about before, my mind, my will, and my emotions, they're not meant to be in the driver's seat. They're meant to be the downstream effect of the spiritual connection I have with God. Wow. So when I recognize, okay, I've come into a place of emotional turmoil, I kind of just internally make that switch where I say, okay, Holy Spirit, God, right? I need you to speak to my spirit. I'm gonna bring myself into submission to you again. And I have authority over my internal world. So my mind, my will, and my emotions, I need you to come into submission to the Holy Spirit right now. And then the natural flow of that is that my physical body, the manifestations of what I'm feeling, the heaviness, the anger, the anxiety, has to then follow the internal man, because that's who I really am. And it's just that practice. And I say it like it's you know, black and white, step one, two, three. It takes practice, it takes work, but you know, my mom calls it coming into alignment. And if we just think about it, God, our spirit, our soul, and our body in that in that linear order.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Yeah, you know, I I have a background in obviously personal development, self-help, subconscious reprogramming. That was like the past 10 years of my life in that most previous chapter. And one of the things I would always help people with is like figuring out how do you control your thoughts so that you can then control your emotions because your emotions are actually what put you into motion.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

And so if you're in anger or you're in shame or you're in regret or embarrassment or guilt, etc., it's gonna mobilize you in a certain direction.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

What's interesting is the emotion is always the output. The thought is always the input. And what's important about that is that as the thinker of the thought, the thought can be no more powerful than the person thinking it.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

So it actually this points to the dominion and authority that you're talking about. Yeah. Is that we have authority over the flesh, over our mind, over our will, and over our emotions. And and I think what you're alluding to, if not even explicitly, is like, no, say it. Like, say these things out loud, right? Like, are you actually like talking to yourself in real time and saying it out loud? And if so, is there like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit Yeah, it depends where I am.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah, it might look a little crazy if I'm doing it out loud in the middle of the situation, but Paul says, take every thought and hold it captive. And and my wording is to the supremacy of Jesus, like take that thought and and recognize that it is what you called it the output, right? So I have to change the input, and so I bring that to who Jesus is. He is the the king, he's the Lord, and so everything that I have internally and externally is his. So I bring that into a place of recognizing in this moment, something else is fighting for control. Something else is wanting to be the determining factor that produces an outcome in my life. I have the choice, though, to say, no, I'm gonna choose what God wants for me instead of what my emotions want. And the the saying that I've heard is that emotions are excellent servants and they're terrible masters. They're really good when they are the byproduct of my life that is moving in the direction of my purpose and my identity and my pursuit of God. When they shift into that, you know, I'm the boss, I'm the master, we are gonna be all over the place. Absolutely. And so what you said, change the input. Yeah, have to have to identify what the input is and then change it.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Awareness, right? Yeah. He says, My people perish for lack of knowledge. I think this probably a good time to maybe like, I don't know, even if we've introduced ourselves. We're a couple episodes in here. Yeah. Um, I think the people that are watching this are our pioneer viewers and and listeners, probably know at least one of us, uh, maybe even personally. Um, like I said, I have a background in mindset, in uh personal development, self-help. Um, I rose to TikTok fame through talking about those things, and I've decided to put away the millions of followers for Jesus. I felt called over the past few years. And uh, for those who don't know, I am Anthony Sereno. I identified as a professional hypnotist prior to this come to Jesus moment that I had. Um, and this is where this podcast is coming about talking about the spiritual technology. I know you love that term. Yeah, um, but really the things that we we turn to in the personal development space and self-help world is everything that's in the Bible, yeah, but it's been divorced from Jesus. And now I want to look at those topics and and those themes through the lens of scripture with keeping Jesus at the forefront. So no longer do I identify as a professional hypnotist, no longer do I identify as someone who's who's even operated in the gray area of some of the new age things that we'll talk about in the future. Um, I am someone who is trying to be a disciple and also equip disciples. The title for this episode is hard to kill, right? And I thought that was quite apropos. Obviously, Jesus is impossible to kill. Um, but I think as Christians, becoming hard to kill, yeah, hard to kill in spirit, hard to kill at a soul level, even becoming someone who is in control of their body and and realizes a temple of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

With our flesh is hard to kill.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Exactly. So that's a little bit about me for every anybody who's uh you know new here or coming across this podcast for the first time. But Sam, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah, my name is Sam Edwards. I have never risen to any level of fame, TikTok, social media or otherwise. Um, but I am the pastor of the gathering in Poughkeepsie, New York, and became the lead pastor in 2022. And that was after over a decade of being a youth pastor and working with junior high and high school uh students throughout those years, learning how to communicate, hopefully effectively, learning how to be able to walk through really difficult uh challenges with young people who they've had so many things going on, especially in the day and age in which we live. Um, and so have some wild stories that have come from youth ministry. But now, as a lead pastor, I get to lead an amazing congregation each and every week, and now get the opportunity to come on here and to do this podcast.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

So I think I mentioned this previously is uh Sam's the authority here. He doesn't like when I say this. I know you flinch a little bit, um, but I am not the one that has thousands of hours of sermon prep, thousands of hours of Bible study and research and working with people one-to-one. Um, I'm gonna do my best to provide uh like some color commentary and things that I know about from like maybe a more mindset perspective and and reprogramming perspective. Um, but as far as spiritual understanding and knowledge and wisdom goes, this is the man. And this is why I was so excited. This was divinely orchestrated, I think. Yeah, that we're here right now doing multiple episodes and going to continue to do this because this wasn't what it was gonna be in the first place. Yeah, so I I thank you for uh even being here and trusting me to, you know, some random guy off the street. I'm sure even people who are from the the gathering from the church listen to us like who's this random dude you just all of a sudden Sam's hanging out with, but we're here. We're new.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

I will tell you when I first came, I was like, so what are we gonna talk about? What's this gonna look like? I showed up with a Bible. I was like, that's the best I can do. I'm gonna show up with a Bible and uh loved the you know, the ability to have conversation, to talk about deeper things and to be able to hear your experiences. And so I agree. I I I know God put this together, and so I'm excited for all the the conversations that are gonna come out of it.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

Yeah, me too. So when you hear hard to kill, when you saw that I put that on our show notes before we started, uh what is that what does that make you think of?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, it makes me think of Ephesians chapter six as my initial uh thought process, um, where Paul tells us to stand and when we've done all else to continue to stand, because there is a element of our walk with God that is definitely spiritual warfare. Uh, Paul tells us that we are supposed to be equipped with the armor of God, that we're supposed to be ready for battle. And he tells us you're gonna have to stand, and you're gonna have to continue to stand. And the Bible is rich with imagery about perseverance and continuing to move forward and to walk through difficult situations. And the more that I've grown in my faith, and maybe just in this position now where I hear the stories of Christians and believers who are walking through challenging times, family issues, health issues, relational things, I realize that this walk with God is the greatest endeavor that we could ever engage in. And it's also not nearly as easy and you know, roses and just beautiful uh days where everything is going the way we want it to, as it's been, you know, explained to be so often. Yeah. And so hard to kill means that we are building up the endurance, the character, the reliance, the faith to be able to continue to trust in God even when it's difficult.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

I love that because it the verse that came to mind as I'm as I'm thinking about this was actually not in Ephesians, it was Matthew 10, uh 28, but it's speaking to this as well. It says, and do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. And I I when I was thinking about and brainstorming what we're gonna talk about today, you know, I I really have been taking a deep dive into what it means to like revere God and to fear God. Yeah, because I know in my life there's been long seasons where I believe in Jesus, but I haven't truly recognized him as the Lord over my life. Yeah, you know, and I it just brings to mind, you know, my biological father I never really met. He left when I was two years old, and he used to say things like, Oh, I'm not really his kid, etc. That's a long story. But um, my stepdad came around when I was about eight or nine years old, and my mom got remarried to him, and he took me on as his son. I even called him dad, right? Because he was all I knew.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

But as this happens in kind of stepfather, stepson uh dynamics, there would be times where I'd maybe misbehave or act up. He'd try to reprimand me, and I would either think or say, Well, you're not my real dad.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

And my actions and response were predicated on whether or not I recognized him as my real father.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

You know? And so it wasn't until I recognized Jesus as Lord that then obedience became the standard and discipline became the standard, and fear was also a part of that, but right like with this righteous fear for God. Yeah. So do you see that? Like, because you you deal intimately with uh constituents, not constituents, I'm thinking politics, but you with congregants, churchgoers of all different positions on their walk, right? Do you see a difference between the Christian who just believes in Jesus and the one who like fears God? And what's the difference?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah. I think we can talk about just Christianity in general when you recognize what you've been saved from. You recognize I'm a sinful individual apart from God, that I cannot uphold any kind of standard that he has for me. And you realize that the Bible says the wages of sin is death. And so Jesus comes and he brings us salvation through his death, his burial, and his resurrection, which we could never attain on our own. And so immediately what comes up in us is a gratitude and a love. We give our lives to him because we realized that he loved us so much that he gave himself for us. And that is so beautiful and so important. And I think everything stems from that place of love. But if it remains as love only and doesn't ever move into submission, it doesn't ever move into a place of recognizing his lordship, then what will happen is that we will treat him like any other relationship where we love somebody, we want the best for them, we take their opinions and their feelings into account when we're making decisions, maybe. But there is a difference between walking in relationship in love and saying, oh no, you have the final say. You're the one that gets to make the ultimate decision in this area, or when we're talking about God in every area. And I would say a vast majority of Christianity loves God, but they haven't moved into that place of transformation, which is submission to Him, allowing and recognizing that He is the one who created us, He is the God of the universe, and He's not just our Savior, but He is our Lord and our King. So I definitely think that is very prevalent in the body of Christ.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

So as someone who's on the other side of the pulpit compared to 99% of Christians, when you think about fearing the Lord, what do you see in someone where that fear is absent?

SPEAKER_00 16:49

I mean, I could speak to myself. Um when I am contemplating a decision, and I recognize that there is this, and we could call it a few different things, a check, a hesitation, a place of conviction. For me, what I know that is, is that's the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, When I leave, I'm going to give you the Holy Spirit, and He's going to remind you of my words, He's going to lead you and guide you. So when I feel that, oh, something is going on right here, I realize, oh, he's saying something. If I bypass that, if I keep moving in that direction without checking in to see, hey, what's going on here? I've decided in that situation or scenario that I am the ultimate decision maker, right? And so I will continue to move in that direction. And as I do that more and more and more, I will have that check lessened and I'll just keep doing what I want. And so what I see in myself or in others is that a blind spot starts to appear. So in the beginning, when I did that thing, I recognized, oh, he's saying something. But if I continue to push past that and keep moving through it, eventually I'm going to develop a blind spot. Other people are going to be able to see in me that deficiency, that overcompensation, uh, even that emotional response that I have excused or made justifications for, but I'm not going to see it. And then it's going to come down to me walking through enough situations and dealing with the pain that's come as a result of my blindness that will ultimately cause me to either see that thing or unfortunately to never see it. And we can still be a Christian, we could still do great things for God, but we're going to have relationships that are going to be destroyed. We're going to have byproducts of our own pride or arrogance or unforgiveness that are going to show up. And we're going to be like, why is that here? I tried my best. I did what I knew to do, but it's because we kept pushing past that lordship of Jesus, who's trying to show us something so that we make that shift early on when it's easy.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

What's that song, I Did It My Way? Yeah, Frank Sinatra.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

I love when he gets played at the end of a Yankee game. I don't love when it's I did it my way. And I'm like, oh yeah, I I know what that feels like.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Yeah. You know, and it makes me think about too the the severity of sin or the seriousness of sin. And this is something I I wish was talked about more. And I I'm projecting here a lot too. Like I think it's important for me to be transparent. A lot of things I'm going to ask you and talk about are me projecting my own inner woes and things that I'm struggling with, right? One of those things is sin, as we do. But what I've realized is that sin begets sin. So the more you sin, the harder it is to get out of sin. The harder, like the more you give in to temptation, the harder it is to then resist temptation in the future. I found that the more I turn towards Jesus and seek first his kingdom, the easier it gets to be obedient and disciplined and not have to white knuckle it. And then that begets more obedience. Not that it's easy by any means. I'm not I'm far from perfect with it, but once I started taking my sin serious, because I see him as a Lord and I fear like a righteous fear of God and reverence, yeah, that changed everything.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

So uh what would you say to the the person who is kind of flippant about their their sin in their life?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

So I referenced this before, but if the wages of sin equals death.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Wait, wait, what does that even mean? When you say are you saying like literal death? Like how serious are we supposed to take that statement?

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Because very seriously. Um, I would say that there is a spiritual component to this, yeah, and there is also the natural component of our walk with God. Um, we know sin came in in the very beginning in the garden. Adam and Eve made their own decision. They reached for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because the enemy said, Hey, there's something that God's keeping back from you. So if you eat of this fruit, you are going to be able to have your own discernment, your own autonomy to make these decisions. And that really set the course. And this is not um, it's not a uh a figurative example, it's not a parable, it's an actual account of what took place. And so at that moment, separation occurred from God. And so, even though they didn't physically die in that moment, they experienced a death because separation from God is death, he is the source of life. And at the moment that they disconnected from him, decay and entropy, I'm using a science word that I think I learned in sixth grade, pretty sure that's accurate. The breakdown started to occur because separate from God, death is what begins to occur. So, yes, ultimately the reason that death exists in this world is because sin is present. Yeah. So yes, it is physical, yeah, but it's also that spiritual component where as soon as there's a separation, we start to experience death. Yeah. Death in the the ability to walk in peace, the ability to walk in whole relationships, the ability to make decisions that are not selfless, but they're always they are selfless, but we want them to be they're they're selfish instead of being selfless, right? Those are all examples of death that are occurring.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

And you can't be moving towards death and life at the same time. You can only be moving in one direction. Yeah. And your thoughts are either orientated towards life, towards Jesus, towards eternity, or towards death and suffering and separation. And you mentioned a good word. I love it, entropy, right? This universe is entropic in nature, right? Meaning it's moving towards chaos and disorder outside of it being controlled by a creator. Yeah. Which to me, from like an apologist's standpoint, is like obviously there's a creator of the universe. There's someone holding this all together and engineering this. It's like if I just let my house or my home office go and I don't clean it up, it's going to move towards entropy. It's going to get dusty, things are going to get messy. I have to be the force that acts upon that entropy. That's God in the equation here. Sin also moves us in the direction towards entropy, towards spiritual chaos, towards spiritual destruction. And it takes a force, which is us through our, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's through acknowledging that we have a Lord and say we have a creator that's given us power and authority to act on our surroundings in our own spiritual life, that then allows us to act against that entropy, which keeps us moving in the direction of life, right? I know it sounds a little convoluted, but that's like the way I consider it.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Well, when it's connected to God, yeah, absolutely. But I think to answer your original question, which was why do we not take sin more seriously? Yeah. It's because even though this is happening and things are breaking down and sin is having the effect of death in our lives, separation from God. Somehow we think that we have the ability to overcome it. Yeah. We think that in our own ability, strength, and understanding that we can overcome the outcome that is just so natural. And so we think if I do this thing, if I accomplish this, if I do more good than bad, I'm actually overcoming that. And surely the results of it won't be death. Right. If I stand before God one day and I'm telling him all the good things that I did, there's no way that death or separation from him or hell is going to be the result, right? That doesn't make sense. Because in our natural understanding, eating from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we're constantly weighing these things out. Because that's how we work in relationships. If somebody is I'm friends with and they do good things to me, I'm like, hey, we're in a good relationship right now. If they start to fail me, then eventually I'm gonna write them off. It's this good versus evil narrative, but we don't realize that that even that understanding comes from God Himself in terms of what good and evil is, but we don't realize that we are inherently evil apart from him. So no amount of good that we do is going to overcome that.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

So where does good works come in then?

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Good works is the byproduct of good belief. So this is the book of Romans, which I absolutely love, where Paul speaks about the fact that we have the law that was brought into effect by Moses, and it was the standard that was given to the people of Israel, and it was their ability to achieve a level of righteousness, righteousness being right standing with God. If they followed the law and then they offered a sacrifice in exchange for the places where they messed up, then they could enter into a place where basically they and God were on good terms. And so what happened eventually, though, is that following the law became the greater priority for the Hebrew people than the relational aspect of it. So much so that we get to the time of Jesus, and the Pharisees are asking Jesus, God Himself, you healed somebody on the Sabbath? How could you do that? That broke our law. And they're talking to God Himself, who has healed somebody, and they're more concerned with the fact that he did it on the Sabbath than that the man received their healing. And so what we see is that man left up to his own or her own devices is always going to try to do something in the flesh to do good works to earn right standing with God. But what Paul so brilliantly does is he goes back to Abraham. Now, Abraham precedes Moses. So the law comes when Moses is leading the people out of the land of Egypt and they're moving into the promised land. But Abraham precedes them by generations. So before they ever went to Egypt, before Joseph, before Isaac and Jacob, there was Abraham. And it says that Abraham, apart from the law, because the law wasn't given yet, believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. It says that before circumcision, which is another Old Testament concept, I feel like we need to start having some of those descriptions on the bottom of the screen, right? Uh before circumcision, which was the thing that physically set them apart from all the other people, Abraham was justified by his faith in God. And so what we see is Abraham absolutely had good works. Abraham absolutely uh did things that were very much a byproduct of his faith, being willing to lay his son down on the altar. But before that, there was a belief in him that he trusted God more than anything else. He went into battle, he brought back his nephew Lot, he overcame the enemy, he did all these things, good works, but they all came from the priority he had in his life, which was relationship with God. And so good works come as a result of right belief. If the good works precede the right belief, if if we're if we're trying to do good works in order to achieve right standing before God, which is the law, it's based off of our own ability and our own righteousness. And God actually rejects that. The Bible says that self-righteousness is as filthy rags, and if we want to get real explicit with that, the the actual imagery is a menstrual cloth. So it's like it doesn't have life in it. It's dead blood. It's dead, right? It it's the it's the depiction of no life has come from this thing. That's what our righteousness looks like before God. Self-righteousness.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

So are good works ever a metric for salvation? Meaning, like, can you be saved in living a life of because I what I what first comes to mind is like being brought up Catholic, and I've taught to a lot of people that have like church hurt, right? They were maybe brought up in uh a household where their parents were quote unquote devout Christians and they would go to church, but then maybe they were abusive, right? Or maybe they they heard them say one thing and saw them do another thing, or maybe they were abused by someone else in their life who claimed to be a Christian. Is that a metric? Is like if someone is not partaking in good works and showing a manifestation of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, is that any indication of whether or not they're saved?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Yeah, so Jesus says the tree will be known by its fruit. Yeah, so the good works never determine the salvation, but they are a depiction or a byproduct of true salvation. So the things that I do don't earn my salvation, but if I am truly saved, then there will be good works, there will be fruit that comes out of my life to reveal it. It's it's an important distinction, and it may seem like a simple one, but uh Paul says in Romans chapter 4, in speaking about Abraham, he says, And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness. Just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from his works. So even David, who is in the Old Testament, is speaking about the fact that there is a righteousness that comes from faith in God. He goes on to say that in this is Romans chapter 4, verse 16, he said that righteousness depends on faith in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all of Abraham's offspring, not to the adherent of the law, but to the one who shares the faith of Abraham. And so he continually is saying that our righteousness, our ability to have relationship with God cannot be due to works, or else uh Abraham wouldn't have been able to walk in the righteousness that he did because he didn't have the law. There was no metric in place, and yet God calls him righteous. And so it's and I love how God sets this up because he knows Abraham's gonna come before Moses, and he makes it clear that our ability into faith is not due to something in the physical realm. And this is so important because uh God also says that Abraham is gonna be the father of many nations, not just the Hebrew nation, but of many nations. And so if it wasn't for this, we could look at the Bible and say, well, you have to be an Israelite in order to be saved. But Abraham precedes the law, and so it shows that if we join in into the same faith that Abraham had, we can receive the same justification, the same righteousness that he did. Because it's not based off of our physical heritage. It's not based off of the works that we do, it's not based off of perfection, it's based off of God Himself, who is the one who gives us the ability to walk in obedience and righteousness when we put our faith in him.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

So this may be a little redundant because that all makes sense to me. And also it's like going back to the question of okay, someone can be saved without it having anything to do with their good works or what they can do on this side of heaven. So what's going on with someone who's given their life to Jesus and they're just like they're abusive or they lie, they steal, they cheat all the time, they're in a constant, and we all sin, right? But like I'm talking like egregious patterns of lifestyle that are clearly counter um um against you know walking with Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yeah, it's it's a lack of discipleship and a lack of engaging in transformation. And to me, it's one of the saddest examples of Christianity where I am a Christian in my name. I speak about my Christian faith, I speak about my Christian belief, but my life doesn't show it at all. It's hypocritical and it is false advertising of the cross of Jesus. And that happens unfortunately so often, where I grew up seeing people who loved God, like genuinely had a heart for God. And yet what I saw out of their life was such a poor depiction of who God was and what a Christian was supposed to look like. And it's because they had belief systems internally that they never gave to him. And let's let's make that clear, right? Because I don't want to use just vague language if they didn't give it to him. They didn't allow the truth of what he said in scripture to actually reveal whether what they were believing was right or not. I can have my own understanding of what it looks like to be a Christian, but if it violates what God has said, then I have to come to terms with one of them is right and one of them is wrong. And so if somebody is saying, I'm a Christian, and yet the fruit of their life is continually the same byproducts, the same behavior as before they became a Christian, something is wrong. Now it's not to bring condemnation and to say you're a terrible person because you're still dealing with things, right? We're all we're all dealing with things. But has there been a point in your life where you have recognized that in God's goodness, He's given us the grace to not stay the same that we used to be? And if you've tried, and this is often the case, but I tried to stop doing that thing, I tried to overcome addiction, I tried to not treat my wife or my kids that same way. Well, that's sometimes the problem. You tried. Instead of recognizing that his grace is sufficient, his grace is all that we need. And so sometimes it's that willingness to recognize, okay, first of all, that is wrong. That's sin. That's not good. I don't want that. But then, God, I can't do this on my own. And so I need to relinquish my ability to fix it to you and to ask for your supernatural strength that I need.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

So, what does that look like? Because that like in my mind goes to the practical step-by-step thing all the time. It's like, okay, you're speaking to someone right now who's listening to this and they're struggling with habitual sin. They want, they have this conviction to live a better life and to do good works and to manifest the fruit of the Holy Spirit, but they're saying, I can't do it. And it sounds good to say, Yeah, give it to God and like invite him into it. But like, what does that look like practically?

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Yeah. It's a great question. For me, if I was sitting down with somebody one-on-one and they're talking about a specific thing that they're dealing with and struggling with, I would start to ask some questions that ultimately would be to reveal this. What is that thing doing for you? Because on some level, whatever that thing is, if it still exists in our life, it's because we found some utility for it. It served us in some way, shape, or form. If it's addiction to substance, right, that thing has given us the ability to escape what I'm feeling in that moment. So there is a utility to it. There's something that it's doing for me. So until I recognize that I've gone to it for a reason, and then finding out what that reason is, then I'm never gonna like receive freedom from it. So, what is the pain that I'm trying to cover over? And as long as it's covered over, I can't see it. So let's say that there is this wound or this trauma in my life. I experienced abuse as a child, I experienced abandonment or neglect. Um, I was lied to, whatever it is. Well, that thing is producing fruit in my life. I have to first recognize that it's there. Then I have to recognize that that's not God's will for my life. And the only reason that it has the ability to stay is because I have given it permission to be there. So I've got to recognize, okay, there's this belief system that's present. It's there because I I agree with it. Uh it's it's kept me safe, it's protected me on some level. I have to then be able to take that pain and that hurt and to start to see God in the midst of it and change my perspective. Because I so often put myself on an island of I've got to fix this thing. And God's like, as your heavenly father who loves you, he wants to invite us into a place of seeing him, experiencing his love, and then giving us the empowerment that we need to walk through healing.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

So if I could distill this down, my perspective here is that step one is seek godly counsel in some capacity, but really it's like investigate why. Like, really look at it somewhat objectively as like, okay, well, why are you sinning? Why do you turn towards substance or pornography? Why are you cheating on your wife? Why are you lusting after women constantly? Why are you seeking that validation, finding some sort of origin or root cause? And this is all things I actually dealt with with clients from just a strictly mindset perspective. It's like, okay, you are this way, you have habits and behaviors that stem from beliefs and and uh self-concept that you learned as most likely as a child through trauma, through repetition, and and but now what I've realized is what what's been left out of the equation is the spiritual warfare of it all. So that's that's that leads me to my next question is how much of this is like learned behavior or learned programming, as in okay, I was abandoned or I was abused, so I learned to believe that I'm not worthy of love, and now I seek validation in the form of sex and I party to numb and all the that's like this kind of learned pattern of cause and effect. Where does spiritual warfare come in, oppression, things like that, if if at all? And is it always like they go hand in hand, or can something be just like strictly neurological and and habitual?

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Yeah, I think that it's very rare that there is a spiritual component to it that doesn't also tie into a belief system. Those things I feel always go hand in hand because I've seen that if you just go after the spiritual component of it and you don't deal with the belief systems that have come as a result of it, then you can get freedom spiritually, but you'll end up in the same place because you didn't change the the dynamics that led you to being open to that spiritual oppression in the first place. So it's important to recognize both things are at play. I think sometimes it can just be purely belief system. Um not to say that there isn't a spiritual component, but when we're talking about spiritual warfare and we're talking about the the demonic aspect of it, um, sometimes we've just developed our own wrong belief systems. And in order to find out what that is, that is really where I recommend sitting down and finding godly counsel to be able to pray through those things. Because the only one that truly knows what you're going through and what is producing the experience that you're having is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the only one that can lead us into that place of saying there is something here that is influencing your thoughts, your belief systems, and your actions. And for me, in the moments where that's happened, what I've seen is that when we invite the Holy Spirit into, and we should just do an episode on the Holy Spirit just to really, you know, talk about who he is and his function in our lives. But when the Holy Spirit is invited in the other dynamics, let's say it's a demonic force, it gets really uncomfortable because nothing in the demonic has any authority over anything of who God is, right? So when the Holy Spirit is present, it's going to create some movement, it's going to create some discomfort. There is going to be something that begins to manifest, which is the word that we would use, where there is normally a physical manifestation that starts to take place because it's like the fire is present. Like if you throw a piece of wood into the fire and there's something in it, insects or snake or whatever it is, they're they're forced out. That's what happens when we invite the Holy Spirit in. Those things start to move, they start to shift, they start to make themselves known, and then and then you're able to deal with it.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Can I tell you a common experience I've been having recently?

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

The deeper I get into my faith and have like recommitted my life to Jesus and walking obediently and really deciding to be like a confident, bold Christian, the more I see the spiritual or experience spiritual, not necessarily attack, but like that manifestation of what we would call the demonic. For example, I'll be at the gas station grabbing uh a water, or I still I love to drink a little Diet Coke now. And I love a nice fresh Diet Coke.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

I won't tell my wife she would judge you hardcore. Spring water.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

I'll hide this at the Celsius, but I'll be at a convenience store and someone will be in front of me online, and the cashier is very nice to that person. So sweet, so you know, uh customer friendly. And then I get there, and I'm like a very nice guy. Like I think I have a trusting, kind face, and I'm like very open to talking to anybody. Yeah, and all of a sudden, as soon as I walk up, they are rude. Yeah, there's like some agitation, yeah, there's like a distraction, you know, something. And I think what I've been realizing is that they're responding to like not me, but like the Holy Spirit that I'm carrying around. Is that does that sound like something that would happen?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

If we think about the spiritual. Realm as being the unseen and yet completely interwoven with what we do see. If you are carrying the presence of God and you're coming into contact with somebody else that's caused it, that's that's walking in the presence of God, there is such a unity that comes so quickly. Oh, you know it. Beautiful connection that's made because it's we can call it real recognizing real, the Holy Spirit in me, recognizing the Holy Spirit in you, and there's just this connection. And I've had conversations where it's with somebody who's a Christian, I didn't know it, and you just connect so quickly. And eventually you're like, hey, like, are you a believer? And they're like, yeah, and you're like, there was just this connection. So if you imagine that's happening on the pro, on the Christian front, then imagine what's happening for somebody who has either intentionally or unintentionally given themselves over to demonic forces, right? Uh, and when I say given themselves over, opened themselves up to made agreements, sometimes made actual agreements in the demonic realm, or just through their own life and decisions they've made of doing things that are actively opposed to God, not like knowledgeably, like saying, like, I don't care, I'm doing this thing anyway. When the Holy Spirit comes into that presence, it would be crazy to think that there wouldn't be a reaction in them to that. It's the heat. The heat gets turned up, it causes things to come to the surface. The light brings out the darkness. And I think that this is another dynamic of this too, is that there are spiritual gift things that people walk in. I know people who are so sensitive to the spiritual realm. They walk into a room, they can sense it, they can be aware of it immediately, they have discernment, they've got dreams, and they're seeing demonic forces, they're seeing the angelic. Like this is part of their gift set. This is part of who they're made to be. Um, they're gonna pick up on those things much quicker than anybody else. I might have that experience with, you know, the clerk at the gas station and not even think anything of it. But when you become more and more aware, because that's who God made you to be, those things I do think even start to increase exponentially more. And it's because God is wanting you to pay attention to it, because he trains us to walk in the authority in the realm that he's called us to. And so if you're called into a place of spiritual warfare, I truly believe you're gonna have a greater awareness of what's going on. And God is wanting to train you and equip you to have authority in those moments where if somebody's responding a certain way, you know how to respond in kind because it's the Holy Spirit inside of you.

SPEAKER_04 46:45

Do you think it's necessary to give people a precaution when even listening to this podcast where I think we're on the same page here? We want to equip disciples in these areas. But knowing that and knowing that the spiritual battle is going to increase, that sounds like something to caution someone about because before I would have never thought twice about someone being rude to me at a at the gas station. But now I recognize it as potential spiritual warfare or some demonic force manifesting, right? But also the way I've looked at it before is like who are they gonna double team on the basketball court? So he's gonna be, you know, Steph Curry, it's gonna be the all-star. You know, and not saying that we have to look at ourselves as all-stars as Christians, but I'm saying when you're the guy, when you're the the person who's like, you know what, I'm gonna be bold in my faith, I'm gonna go evangelize, when I'm gonna go be a disciple, right? And do it loudly and proudly, yeah, there's gonna be an opposing force that gets more apparent because the opposing team doesn't double or triple team the eighth guy off the bench. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

And they definitely don't attack the person who's already on their side.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

So when you really put two feet in and you're like, no, you know what? I'm gonna become a warrior, I'm gonna be hard to kill. You're gonna get evidence that of that, right? And you're gonna see obstacles and you're gonna see more of that.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yeah. I would say to that that I would never advise anybody to walk out, you know, looking like uh I'm a demon hunter, like I'm gonna go try to find the the demon slaying. Oh, I love demon slaying, man. We don't even know what that term means. I don't know if it's like a show or a reference to something, but like I'm not out there looking for the demonic. Yeah, but I am trusting that as God has called us into certain places, that he's gonna lead me and he's gonna teach me appropriately on how to engage in that place. Because our priority, and if nobody hears me say anything else in any podcast we do, is our pursuit of Jesus. It's never the gift, it's never the gift set that he's given to us that we walk in pursuit of. We walk in pursuit of Jesus, and then it's us seeking first the king and the kingdom, all of the other things start to come in. And so I always want to go before him and say, God, whatever you're calling me into, whatever my purpose is, whatever my identity is, it has to be found in you because otherwise I will find my identity in any gift, whether it's being a pastor, being an evangelist, being someone who is operating in spiritual warfare. No, it's Jesus first and foremost, and then it's allowing the Holy Spirit to guide me. And so to caution, yes, I think we caution uh to make sure that the priority is God leading us and not just going out and looking for the demonic because it sounds fun or because we have a gift set there, right? And so I would always start with the scripture. If it's something that you feel that there is a an abnormal amount of spiritual warfare going on, I would go to the scriptures, I would read Ephesians chapter six, I would go to the examples of Jesus interacting with the demoniac or you know how he handled those things and realizing that if he's called you into that arena, it's a very specific and it's a high calling, and it's not to be done in our flesh because we see the example of the, have you ever heard the seven sons of Skeva? So they go out and they say to this, to the demons, like, um they call out the demons by the name of Jesus, who Paul preaches. So like it's like third-hand understanding of who Jesus is, and they come out and they're like, okay, so uh I believe I have this right. Paul, I know, Jesus, they definitely know, but like, who are you? Like they were walking in authority that was not theirs. And it says they get beaten and they run away naked. So there is an uh like a uh respect that we need to have for this area. But when we have relationship with Jesus, he calls us, we go to the scripture, this is our foundation, then we don't need to fear anything. When those things happen, we will be prepared for them because greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

So can I push back on this a little bit? Push back, not push back like uh where I disagree because I fully agree on all of that. But didn't Jesus, in pretty much every instance, when equipping disciples to go evangelize, he equipped them to do things like deliverance and commanded us to do so. In fact, if if I remember correctly, basically one third of his ministry was deliverance. So on one hand, you say don't seek those things out, but on the other hand, you say some people are called to do that. So where's that line between like actually seeking? Because like me, I'm like, I think that might be something I'm called to do. Yeah, because I've seen the necessity for it through doing strictly mindset work. I realized, oh, it's not just the mind. There is often demonic forces at play.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

And as I have as I've looked into that, researched it and studied it biblically, God's like, oh, well, I positioned you in this fashion. I gave you all this information and revelation about the mind and the soul. Now you're seeing that there's a spiritual side to it. So go out and and help people in that capacity as well. So to me, I do get excited. Not that I like want to go out and slay demons, I'm saying that kind of you know flippantly.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

But like I see it now and I want to help people in that capacity. So what's my back to my question? Where's the line between seeking it out and recognizing your calling in something as maybe seemingly fringe as deliverance and so it's not the pursuit, it's again the byproduct.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Yeah, it's not the it's not the ambition that this is who I am until I understand who I am as a son. So it's not to diminish any of the other things, right? I could say in my gift set as being someone who preaches, teaches, and walks in a pastoral gifting to a certain extent. Um I I am a pastor, but I think that there's different spiritual gifts and that I that I operate in. If I am pursuing the platform of being a pastor or a preacher more than I'm pursuing my relationship with God, then I have the order mixed up and I have become the source. I never set out to become a pastor. That wasn't my goal. My goal wasn't to be a preacher, that wasn't my desire. But my relationship with God led to this expression of being able to step into ministry. And so what I am saying is it's not to diminish if you do have a calling to spiritual warfare, to intercession, to walk in discernment in a spiritual way. It's not to lessen that, but it is to always caution that the pursuit first is Jesus. And as we pursue him and we say, God, here I am, send me. Whatever area you want me to walk into, wherever you've called me to go, I am willing and I am desiring to walk according to what you're calling me to do. But it starts with our pursuit of him, and then as he leads us into those places, then absolutely we don't shy away from them. Absolutely. So once again, it's just an order thing.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

Gotcha. This could be a good uh a good moment to ask you guys to like and subscribe uh if you're watching on YouTube before Sam uh never wants to talk to me again because I keep pushing this deliverance thing. But no, in all seriousness, I do want to I I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I want to do a whole uh episode on spiritual warfare and and deliverance because I do the more I look into it, the more I realize we we were we were directed to cast out demons and and and raise the dead and heal the sick. And what I what I've seen in my own life, this is where I'm I need prayer to like step out more boldly in that is I've seen, though, that when people are delivered, that is such an amazing experience for them to then give their life to Jesus. And that's what we see biblically is like people very often didn't give their life to Jesus and then get delivered, they got delivered and then chose to follow Jesus or they were healed and then followed Jesus, yeah. Which I think a lot of people in deliverance ministry specifically get that wrong. They think there's all these conditions you have to meet to be delivered. The power of Jesus is sufficient, yeah. Right? Oh, yeah, so I would love to talk talk about that in the future, but let's let's reel it back a little bit and talk about something that certainly applies to everybody. I want to talk about faith, right? Because we talked about fear. Now I want to talk about faith because to me, as it at some level, faith precedes confident confidence as a Christian, boldness. And uh, you know, to me, whenever I've I've operated in faith, that's when real amazing things have happened in my life. God ordained orchestrated uh things just kind of seemingly miraculously happening. So when you think about faith, and we think about even you know, faith of a mustard seed, the the term that comes to mind that I really like, and it it's kind of it's good for this hard to kill concept is dangerous faith. When I say dangerous faith, what does that mean to you? Because I think people hear faith of a mustard seed, yeah, and they think small, right? They think, oh, only if I have a trace amount, and I think that's true. But when I look into what a mustard seed is and was, and its pervasiveness and its offensiveness, and it would go into any climate or any environment, and it would still grow and nothing could really kill it, and it would expand.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Its root systems are expansive, right?

SPEAKER_04 56:28

Yes, that's how we should go into atmospheres and environments and situations in our business with that pervasive, offensive, dangerous faith. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Is that too like like out there or I like dangerous faith because to me, dangerous faith means it's dangerous to the kingdom of darkness. Yeah, not dangerous to us, but it speaks to the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force. Like there is an element of our walk with God that is offensive in terms of it will offend, but also it's on the offensive, right? So we don't seek to offend people in our faith, but we realize that if we are part of a kingdom, one of the basic tenets of a kingdom is that it's meant to expand. And we are the citizens of this kingdom, which means that we are meant to continually be expanding the kingdom, and the currency of the kingdom is faith. Without faith, it's impossible to please God. So everything that we do should be according to faith. That's where we started with Abraham. He believed God, he walked in faith, God counted it to him as righteousness, and the results of that were Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, the nation of Israel. He believed God and he went into battle with his trained men, and they went and they overcame the enemy. This is what faith looks like. Gideon, he walks in faith. He's got 30 something thousand, and it gets narrowed down to 300, and they go and they win the battle because they walk in such great faith. And faith in Gideon's case didn't always look like faith, right? But it developed in him. And that's what we need to be walking in. We need to be walking in a powerful understanding of what faith is. And I was literally having this thought today. I think sometimes it's so easy. I know that it's so easy to allow the situations of life to determine what I am willing to believe for. And the more that there is opposition and the more that there's challenge, the more likely I am to start to retreat a little bit in what I in what I'm willing to step out in. And it's meant to be the opposite. Because as the situations arise, as the opposition comes, it's an indication. Like you said, the double team analogy, right? The enemy's not sending resources to people who aren't doing anything. The opposition is coming because you're moving in the right direction. But the opposition is to intimidate us to not walk in that faith.

SPEAKER_04 59:05

And the three things that come to mind that you just said walking, stepping out, moving, right? To me, that says action. Yeah. And I this is like become my motto in terms of like faith without works is dead, mindset without works is dead, intelligence without works is dead, courage without works is dead, going to church without it then manifesting works afterwards afterwards is dead. Watching this podcast or listening to it without it then manifesting your life through your action and through your works is dead, right? So that also points me back to a verse that I came across recently speaking of like timidness and and courage was Revelations 21:8. And I can I read it to you real quick. It's uh, but as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, the sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. Now, what's interesting is what's the first thing that's said there?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

Cowards.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:05

Cowards.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:07

So that's why I am so lit up about this topic of disciples being bold. And if you're listening to this as a Christian and you've you've you've been a little like even we've talked about this before, we went to lunch and you're praying over our food before out loud, right? In front of a crowded restaurant. Before I would be like, uh, you know, that's a flinch, but now, like now, I'm like, oh, I love that. And I think a lot of Christians fall into that category, and I want, I want them to be confident and bold.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

It's become this thing where we've been on the back foot in terms of Christianity because it hasn't been popular, because when we stand for what we believe in, it's always looked at as being um uh ignorant, closed-minded, um, hateful, whatever it is, right? We have all of these titles that are that are thrown at us. And as a result, the the natural thing is to be intimidated and to hide our beliefs and to keep it silent and keep it to ourselves and in the workplace. It's you know, it's basically uh discouraged to do that. I don't see that happening with most other religions. You know, if you walk past uh you know a group of Islamic believers, they're they're having no problem rolling out their mats and praying at the right times and doing those things. Their faith is is put on display. The world has its own faith, right? Wearing a pride flag is a form of faith in a different kingdom. That is the thing that they believe in, and they have no problem pushing that. We walk around with the God of the universe and the understanding that we've been created for and with a purpose to expand the kingdom, which is righteousness and peace and joy. It is the best reality that anyone could ever experience. And we keep our mouth shut because we've been forced into it through intimidation. And it is time that Christians are not on the back foot trying to feel like I have to hide my faith, but walking in faith. And that to me, what you're talking about is not just it's not standing on a street corner yelling at people that they need to get saved. It's operating in such faith in my life that it produces an outcome that people actually want to know more about and want for themselves. And so that should be the fruit of our faith is that our lives are putting on display the goodness of God. And as we're doing that, they want to know what we believe and why. And they're asking for, hey, what's going on? And we can give them the invitation into the same kingdom.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:37

Amen. All right, so I think this brings us to a good point here to provide some practical steps to cultivating this courage and this boldness. Yeah. Um, and I and I think we could probably riff on this a little bit casually, but I I I the first thing that comes to mind when I think about cultivating that is always recognizing who it is that we serve and recognizing who we are and who we are. All right. And you and I were talking about this uh before the show. Identity.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:06

How how is how is a Christian supposed to really solidify that identity in Christ? Like when you think practical steps to doing that, what do you think that means?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Um, it's interesting. I uh when you asked the question, something came to mind that I wouldn't have initially thought of. But when I think about the moments where I am most bold, most like ready to go, it doesn't matter what's in front of me, I'm going after it. It's the moments of intimacy with God. It's the moments of worship where I have put myself in a place of laying down my flesh, my desire in that moment, and I am giving myself to God in worship through song, through meditation on his goodness, through putting my eyes on him, whatever that looks like. That to me, that intimacy produces such a boldness because the more that I see him clearly, the more that my identity is being informed by who he is. And this is true of David. David had such intimacy with God, he had such a reverence and a priority on the presence of God that while he's out on the field tending the sheep, he is present with God. And when he steps into the opportunity where the lion or the bear comes, he doesn't run away in fear. I don't think anyone trained him to go kill the lion or the bear. But he was present with God and when the attack came, he responded. What did that lead to? Goliath. An entire nation is cowering in fear, and he says, Who is this some circumcised Philistine that would stand and defy the armies of the living God? And he steps out and he does what he knew to do, and he defeats the giant. He steps into a place of running from Saul and he doesn't take on Saul like the lion or the bear or the giant, but because of who he is and his identity, he actually submits to the king and he he operates in a different, uh, a different expression of that, but it's still informed by his relationship with God. And then he steps in as the king. And even before that, he defeats Philistines, he defeats the armies. Uh David has Saul has killed his thousands, David has killed his tens of thousands. Saul is not in intimacy with God. He is so aware of his own deficiencies that he is able to operate to an extent in what his full uh you know, his full uh capacity would be. David, he exceeds what his capacity would be in the natural. So intimacy with God, bar none, most important thing we could do to inform our identity. And the second one, I'll make this one short, being in community. When you are surrounded by other people that believe the same things, are in pursuit of the same things, you operate in a place of And I believe that there is a spiritual acceleration that comes from individuals coming together with like mindsets and like like uh common pursuits and going after what God has.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:13

That's exactly what I was gonna say. It's been the single biggest thing that's lit me up in my boldness and my faith because it's infectious, is fellowship and being around like-minded believers, confident believers. Now, I advise everybody to go out and get yourself a Sam Edwards um because it's amazing. Um, but not even just our conversations or this, like after we do this, I'm like ready to go out there and like pray over people and and I not be a street preacher, but you know, to that level of excitement, you know, or if it's just you know, my best friend uh Brian, who you've met, who's been on the podcast, um, just having a little Bible study with him. Yeah, but pursuing that is important because the people aren't just gonna come to you. You have to go pursue other Christians as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

Does that come naturally to you?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:58

Pursuing other people?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:59

Well, now it is. It's always I I've always loved community. I think that you know, I was an only child, had you know, trouble with not having my real father in the picture, like I mentioned before. So like I've always pursued that, but it was almost like to fill a void. Yeah. Now it's because I realize like the power of it through church community, through faith, you know. So it's more, it's more um, it's sustaining now rather than something that's just temporary or or out of validation, you know. So yeah, fellowship and seek it out, but that's up to the person listening, right? It's like your pastor's not just always gonna check on you and give you a phone call. It's like you have to surround yourself with people. So that brings me to my one of my final questions here from a practical perspective. In the business world, I was always um uh agreeing with the fact that you're kind of the sum of the people that you surround yourself with, and your net worth is your network, you know. I think that's even more significant for a believer.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:54

And I've no, I know that in times in my life, I have plenty of friends who are non-believers, but there's been some I've had to cut out cut out and either quickly or even slowly distance myself from. So, what do you think about Christians being friends with non-believers?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

Yeah, I think that it's a great thing, so much as your relationship with God is foundational enough that you are an influencer more than you are being influenced. Um, and it's not like a hard and fast rule, become a Christian and cut off all your relationships. But I've seen that it often is a natural byproduct because of either the fact that you can't engage in what you used to engage in because there is a uh discrepancy internally, and there's something where like I just can't be around this anymore. Um, or they don't want to be around you because you're not fulfilling or affirming the things that they're doing. And so that's not always the case, though. You have some friends that are just like, hey, this is not for me right now, but like I respect what you're doing, and you can continue in that friendship. But if you're with them and it's a constant battle, there's something internally going on, constant conflict, um, then it would be wise for you to recognize should I prioritize this relationship? And I would I would liken it to um when you become serious in a relationship and you're gonna get engaged and you're gonna get married. There are relationships that you had previously that are no longer appropriate for this new season. Some are fine, but some are not. Yeah, and so you have to have the discernment to know this is a relationship that's meant to continue, or maybe even just not right now. I need to be able to build this relationship with God, and God may bring this, you know, friendship back together at a certain point. But you definitely, without question, even if you maintain your relationships with your friends that you had before, you do need to have those Christian friends because uh the the Bible says a three-chord strand is not easily broken, right? If one falls in a pit and he's by himself, he's stuck. But if he has a friend, he's gonna help him out of it. We need people who are walking the same journey who will help build us up and we can talk about scripture and pray together and those kind of things. So it's it's important.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:19

Yeah, I think that's been the hardest part for me is um not finding or fellowshipping with Christians, but it's cutting out people from my life because I think it this is especially true for I think people who are rediscovering their faith or you know, deciding to walk boldly again. And it's less true for someone who's more mature in their faith because they're more set in their ways. They they've they've they've, for example, you as a pastor, as someone who lives and breathes this all the time, even from a neurological perspective, you're not going to be as influenced by somebody, right, who's a non-believer. For someone like me, or someone who's once again getting back into their faith for the first time in a while, or maybe they've been lukewarm. The way the brain works is when I become friends with somebody, it literally creates neural structures and connections and areas of the brain specific for that person that then triggers different thoughts, emotions, feelings, and actions based on just being around that person.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:13

So I found that being around unbelievers in my life, even though they're very close friends, I start talking the way they talk, I start joking about the way they joke, even the way I carry myself or my my tonality, or just kind of even my perspective on situations begins to change because my brain is just responding to the history that I have with them.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:33

So I think even if it's just temporary, you have to distance yourself some of the time from these people.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

That's interesting that you say that. I've experienced that. And I'm wondering, like, why do I even start to use different vernacular when I'm talking to friends from when I was a kid? That was just that common relationship we had back then. Even if it's not bad, it's just interesting how our brains are so powerful to switch into that mindset. And so, yeah, being aware of who we are when we're with them, yeah, it definitely matters. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:01

Well, they did a study on um on obesity, and I I forget the exact percentages, but if you have a good friend who's overweight or obese, you're something like 80 to 90 percent more likely to have uh trouble with your weight as well. Wow. Now that's interesting in and of itself. But what the research also showed is say you have a best friend that's of a healthy weight, and they have a friend that you don't even know that is obese, you are significantly more likely to struggle with those afflictions yourself in some capacity. Now it's far less than if you have direct contact, but that just shows the power of whatever neurological connections and triggers and influence is happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

And maybe a commonality and value.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

Whatever it is that, and I want to be gentle now. I say this, but that has an allowance for that is a belief system that may affect other things. And so by virtue of being present with them, it can have an effect on your thinking or your values coming into alignment with theirs. That's very interesting. I I want to do a deeper study on that because that's that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:11

Yeah, we're gonna talk about the neuroscience and and kind of community and some of the practical implications from a nervous system perspective, because I think as we dive into this and what's been revealed to me is it meets at a beautiful crossroads that people don't at typically um realize is is is there, you know. Um, so with that, Sam, would you mind uh I think we're I think we're over the hour here. So would you mind praying us out of here?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

Absolutely. Lord Jesus, I just thank you for every person who's listening right now, and thank you for the ability to go back to your word and to realize that our pursuit of you is meant to inform every area of our lives, that our faith in you and our trust in you is what defines who we are, because it gives us the ability to become a reflection of you and your goodness. And so I pray, Lord, that in any area of our lives where our behavior, where our works, where the things that we have done, that they are trying to produce life in us, they're trying to define who we are, that Lord God, we would just back up and we would see that the reason we can walk in salvation is because of grace through faith. It's what you have done, and it's our ability to trust in you. And I pray that as we see that more clearly, that what comes out of our life and out of our relationships and in every area of our life, that life would be produced out of it because you have gone before us. And we just thank you for all this in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:35

Amen.