You Can’t Follow Jesus Without This....

In this episode of The Fifth Gospel, the hosts unpack what it truly means to die to self, crucify the flesh, and live from a new identity in Christ rather than relying on behavior modification or self-help.

Through Galatians 2:20 and Romans 12:2, they explore how believers are already crucified with Christ and must live by faith in Jesus’ finished work while allowing the Holy Spirit to transform their thinking and desires.

Topics include:
* What “crucified with Christ” really means
* Why self-help cannot replace surrender
* Lukewarm Christianity vs full obedience
* Renewing the mind through the Holy Spirit
* The difference between grace and striving
* Accountability, correction, and biblical community
* Sanctifying gifts and talents for God’s kingdom
* Evaluating spiritual fruit vs fleshly living
* Practical steps for authentic discipleship

If you’ve ever struggled with comfort, compromise, identity, or spiritual stagnation, this conversation offers a practical and biblical challenge toward deeper surrender and true transformation in Christ.

00:00 Surrender Not Sacrifice
02:24 Crucified With Christ
06:26 Identity And Fruit
07:15 Fifth Gospel Explained
08:27 Comfort Versus Obedience
11:13 Leave Everything Behind
14:36 Gifts Sanctified For Kingdom
18:43 Accountability And Heart Shift
23:13 Peter Confronted By Paul
32:52 Offense Unity And Division
35:58 Subscribe And Start With You
37:09 Crucified With Christ
38:28 Truth Over Feelings
41:22 Revelation By Spirit
42:44 Meditating Finished Work
46:09 Grace Not Law
48:15 Renewed Mind Discernment
52:10 Spiritual Checkup Checklist
54:59 Fruit Versus Flesh
58:03 Community And Accountability
01:00:19 Obedience And Hearing God
01:03:55 Prayer And Repent Act
01:06:23 Closing Prayer

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

When we come to God, if we're thinking about all the things we have to give up, that's the wrong mindset.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

What is dying to self? What does that look like practically? What does it mean to crucify the flesh?

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Give my life to Jesus? That's a big call. Yes, it is. Like, let's not sell a false bill of goods. Let's not uh rosy up everything.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

There's this pursuit of self-righteousness, self-control, not a posture of surrender. And if we were all surrendered, we would have a much better world right now.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

As we're walking through this life, not just being saved by a savior that's way down the road, waiting for us to get to him. We have been given salvation by a savior who is here and present with us in the moment. He is our ever present help in time of need.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

For so long I consumed information for sport. If I only had the right business strategy, if I only had the right self-help with the right technique, then I would be successful. This is the business book. This is the life book. This is the relationship book.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

We have to recognize that when we enter in through that gateway, that when we enter into the kingdom of young, now there is a life to be lived. And it's not this small thing that gets incorporated into our life. It's not a diet, it's not a gym membership, it's not a self-help book, it's not a podcast. It is a lifestyle that we're meant to fully give ourselves to.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

So how do we turn head nods into footsteps?

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Lord Jesus, I thank you for this time together, for this work that you've called us to for this podcast for the fifth gospel. And I thank you for anyone who's going to be listening and for those who you have ordained to be listening. I pray that we would be able to speak not with human understanding or reasoning, but with spiritual insight and revelation, and that we would be able to speak beyond the natural and to the supernatural. So guide us in our words and our speech and everything we talk about in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Amen. All right, we're back. We're so back.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

We're back.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I feel like we were like we're we're having these constant, uh, in a good way, reiterations. Yeah, like it's this ongoing refining process. And uh for the listener, I hope that um not only you are you here with us, but you're here because of what we're trying to share, like the the true message of the fifth gospel. Yeah, and I think you know, Paul didn't say that he was trying to die to himself, he said he was already dead, he was crucified with Christ. And in a world in 2026 where we have a focus on personal development, self-help, therapy, even it's largely trying to change our behavior, change our lives through that behavior modification. But I don't see Christianity as that. I don't see my identity in Christ as just trying to change um what I'm doing. But I do see the necessity for my lifestyle being a manifestation of that identity.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

And so I think today we really need to answer the question of like, okay, well, one, what is dying to self? What does that look like practically? What does it mean to crucify the flesh?

SPEAKER_05 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

And and and to grow in the fruit and to have a life that resembles our walk with Jesus, not just another head nod to a verse, not just someone listening to this episode agreeing in their mind intellectually, but like knowing it in their heart that their lifestyle has to match their identity in Christ.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Yeah. I'd want to start by like acknowledging how important this is and how challenging it can be. For anybody who's walked with God for any period of time, we recognize, all right, I want to change. If I didn't want to change, I wouldn't have come to Jesus in the first place. So in coming to him, there is a desire to what we would call in in Christianity to be transformed, a transformation from what I was into who he's made me to be. So when I recognize that he has a purpose for my life, that he has intentionally created me, then it starts to stir up something inside of me, which is to say, I want to be more like that. I want to look more like that. But then I look in the mirror and I recognize all the places where I'm falling short, all the places where I'm not meeting those expectations. And so what I can try to do is one of two things, like you said, behavior modification. I can try to change who I am and the things that I say and the things that I do. And I think we all probably start here, but it isn't until we come to a realization of what Paul said, I have been crucified with Christ. And that's what you said. Not that I will be crucified with Christ, not that I am working my way through the crucifixion of Christ. I have been crucified with Christ. And when I recognize that this is the reality, what I can start to do is I can start to see myself, my flesh, all of the things that have that proclivity, have that draw to that old way of doing things. I can see that that has already been dealt with on the cross of Christ. And as we look at this, there is both a knowing, and then there is a realization of what that is meant to look like in my life. So I would say knowing is when we hear the gospel. We hear what Jesus has done for us, and we're like, hey, I want that for myself. I'm gonna apply my belief and my trust and my faith in that, and I'm gonna believe it so much so that that salvation becomes mine. That's our entryway into faith. But do we then allow that same faith in what he has done to begin to change who I am? Not just to say, yes, I get to go to heaven now. That's a wonderful reality. But now that same work on the cross has given me the ability to walk into a new reality of life where it's not me trying my best anymore, it's me operating out of his best. Because we've all tried our best. Just do your best. Try your best. Yes, that's really good advice when you're a kid and you're learning how to do something. But at a certain point of maturity, you're not just trying anymore. You have to begin to walk out of the reality of who you are. And the thing for us as believers is that we recognize that reality is not based off of what I can do, it's based off of what he's already done.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Amen. And that's the problem right there is that most people are trying to improve what God says must be crucified.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

It's not about upgrading your old identity. Yeah, it's about taking on your new identity in Christ as a new creation.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

And we talked about the be do have model of change. Yep. When you're operating in that identity in Christ, you're actually you should see the fruit of it in your actions and then ultimately in your outcomes. Yeah. You know, now it's not going to be easy. There is an ongoing nature to this, I think. We we are we are already crucified with Christ, but there is this kind of, and maybe it's the ongoing sanctification process, but it is the walk that plays out on a day-by-day basis. We are bound by time and space because we are in this human body. Um, and then there's gonna be that fruit that we see in our relationships and our businesses, you know, in these interactions that you and I are having. Um, and I just go back to that like proclamation, I think we both understand here for the fifth gospel podcast is that you are the fifth gospel.

SPEAKER_05 7:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

It's that's it's that simple. And and you know, what does that even mean though? I think someone might be wondering, oh, that's kind of like a buzzwordy uh name to a podcast. It sounds cool and it it resonates. But what does it mean? And I we were talking about this yesterday when we had our meeting. I said, if you told me you were a golfer and I asked you, well, you know, what what kind of clubs do you have? I go, Oh, I don't have any golf clubs. I'd be like, Oh, so do you like do you practice? You go to driving range? You're like, no, I don't really go, I don't, I don't do that. Oh, do you even play golf? You said, no, I'll be like, Well, are you even a golfer?

SPEAKER_05 7:55

You know, I identify as a golfer.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

You identify as a golfer, right? And I think a lot of people identify as Christians, but they are not living the life that is indicative of the good news of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Yeah. Do you think that this is because Christianity in some ways is looked at as self-help, where we're trying to incorporate Christianity into our existing lives instead of realizing that our belief and pursuit of Jesus is the paramount, it is the thing that defines our lives.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah, I mean, I think people are turning to God for comfort.

SPEAKER_04 8:31

Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure that's happening.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah, which I think there's a piece that transcends all understanding, and I have felt that. Um but long suffering is also a gift for a reason. You know, there's a reason why we go through trials and tribulations, and that that builds character and perseverance, and um so it's not gonna be easy. And I think too many people they look for comfort and they're not willing to be obedient if it's uncomfortable. Um, and yes, I think people turn to the church for like this identity upgrade, this feel-good, like TED talk style motivation. Um, and then I think they go back out into the real world after Sunday service, life hits them in the face, um, and then they're left kind of juggling these real world problems and struggling in their faith and struggling with how they feel about themselves and how they view themselves because they don't have a proper understanding of what's already written about them.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

Yeah. Yeah, the Bible says wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and narrow is the path that leads to righteousness. And that gateway into righteousness, into the kingdom of God, it is narrow. And so I do think many come to that gate even because they need comfort, because they need hope, because they need life in the midst of whatever they're going through. And I think that's beautiful. And not everybody is gonna say yes, and because it is a narrow pathway, it doesn't incorporate the belief of the world. The systems of this world don't work in this new reality. But once we go into the narrow gate that leads into eternal life, what we have to see is that it's actually quite expansive. That once we get through that gate, the kingdom of heaven is not narrow, the kingdom of heaven is wide open. And so I say that to say, regardless of how we've come to faith and what we were carrying when we came to faith in Jesus, we have to recognize that when we enter in through that gateway, that when we enter into the kingdom of God, now there is a life to be lived. And it's not this small thing that gets incorporated into our life. It's not a diet, it's not a gym membership, it's not a self-help book, it's not a podcast. It is a lifestyle that we're meant to fully give ourselves to. And so I think that's that's what can be challenging because you've lived your whole life up to this point. Some things you want to change and some things you want to keep. And the things you want to keep, you really want to keep, or else they wouldn't be there. And if what Jesus says, if the word of God, if discipleship and following Jesus doesn't align with your belief systems, it becomes very difficult to fully give yourself to it because of what you're gonna have to give up.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

But when Jesus called his disciples, they're fishing, they're doing their jobs, they're tax collecting, whatever they're doing, he says, Come and follow me. He didn't say bring your fishing nets in case we get hungry later. He didn't say bring all of your tax collecting skills. He said, Come and follow me, and they left everything and they followed him. That's the model. And that's not popular. That's not something that many preachers are going to get up and say during a salvation message, come and leave everything. Uh, somebody was saying the other day, when you give your salvation call and you say, give your life to Jesus, that could be very intimidating. Give my life to Jesus? That's a big call. Yes, it is. Like, let's not sell a false bill of goods. Let's not rosy up everything. No, you're giving your life to Jesus because he said, I'm the way and the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father except through me. And so when we try to come with our own stuff and we incorporate Jesus into it, we are gonna be disappointed because it's gonna be a diluted version of Christianity. It's going to be a partial version of what he has said and what I believe. And I think that's that lukewarm nature. Some of God, the rest of me. And what that does, unfortunately, is it produces a lifestyle of compromise. So when I try to enact what I believe, when I try to change my behavior, when I try to do all the things that I think I need to do, and I don't get the outcome that I want, I turn around and I say, God, how come I didn't get what I wanted in this? I followed you. I I invited you into my heart. But did you give your life to him? Did you recognize that he's not just a teacher, not just somebody who we should agree with, but someone who says, Come and follow me, pick up your cross and follow me. And this is this is hard language. This is something I've lived my whole life. Maybe it's a little bit easier for me to conceptualize. But if someone's just coming to the faith and they're like, I have to give everything to Jesus, I'm I'm gonna tell you very honestly, yes. But there is nothing more fulfilling, nothing more worth it. There is no purpose that is true purpose that is found outside of him.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

So there is a very specific entryway into this kingdom, but realize when you get into it, it's everything.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah, I I've realized recently that uh the busier I get for the kingdom, um the easier it is to uh to continue crucifying the flesh. I know that, and once again, I'm using the same language that I say as Ron, but I'm saying like the ongoing battle with sin seems to get easier when I'm keeping myself busy, like getting involved doing this sort of thing, the podcast. But it doesn't have to be that. It's like even uh I have a buddy in California who I'm holding accountable with reading his Bible, just that alone and and and putting my focus there. We've talked about how critical it is to manage your focus because I think that is our biggest weapon as Christians. Um, keeping the eyes on the kingdom and what I can do practically for my brothers and sisters, what I can do for my church, that alone is going to help you. Yeah, right. Um, you mentioned something about how he told them to leave everything behind. And but he also went to them for a reason, right? He went to the he went to these specific disciples or people he'd make disciples for a reason. Like, so where do you draw the line between yes, it's no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me, but also I have God given talents and abilities and gifts um that are useful in the kingdom.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Because I think some people can hear, like, oh, you got to die to self-complete. It's like, okay, well, do I put all of my desires and all my talents and gifts to the side? Or and how do I how do I figure out where I'm supposed to use them now?

SPEAKER_04 14:57

Yeah. So we know that when God created man, he did so uniquely. And I believe that each individual that he has made, he's given specific talents and giftings, he's given certain desires and passions to. That doesn't go away when we come to faith in Jesus. But what it does is it gets upgraded because on its own, it was good and it did reflect God in some way because we're created in God's image. But when we come to Christ and we submit our lives to Him, everything we have gets moved into a place of greater purpose. Our gifts to be able to speak now get to be used for the kingdom. Our gifts and being able to uh create wealth and to generate wealth, now they can be used for the kingdom. Our ability to love people, now it has purpose behind it. So it doesn't get thrown out the out the window, but now it's it's sanctified. It's being used for a greater purpose than we could ever do on our own. And so when we come to God, if we're thinking about all the things we have to give up, that's the wrong mindset. On one level, it's what do I get to give to Jesus who died for me and gave me everything? But on the next level, it's like, okay, um, what I do have, he wants to use and he gets to use for an eternal purpose. And so I feel that there should be an excitement about what we bring before him. Not, oh no, I'm gonna lose this. But God, you get to take whatever it is and to transform it and to use it for more.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

This has personally played out in my life, and I mentioned this on a previous episode. Um, is that I used to be involved in a lot of new agey stuff, um, borderline occult, some people might say. And I had a moment in church where God audibly spoke to me and said, use your power in my name. Now, at the time, he was kind of speaking to my arrogance. It's not necessarily, it's his power, but we have a power through him, right? Um, and what he revealed to me is like everything you're doing in this mindset space, like there's power in the mind. And I gave you a mind for a reason. I gave you the ability to reprogram it and to orientate it in specific directions. And and there is some several, some there, and there is some level of self-control there. Um use it for the kingdom.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And so everything that was revealed, and I see this in the new age uh community now, because I talk to a lot of former new agers who are realizing the truth. Um, and we're gonna talk about this in the next episode, actually. Um, but they realize that so much of what they've already been doing is perverted spiritual truth, spiritual technology, it's divorced from God. And it's they went through it for a reason. And now there's this bridge to Christianity where they have to leave all of that behind, but there is an actual biblical way to do things. Um, so for me, I've seen this where my own desires I've had previously, although perverted at one time, are desires that can now be orientated towards Christ with the tool set and skill set and mindset that I have now that can be useful in the kingdom. And so I thank you for answering that question because it I think it is it's a balance between who we are now in Christ and then the things we've learned along the way that can still be useful now, even if they weren't used for good before.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

So let's talk about what has to change in order for that to happen. Because in the previous space, you had the same skills and you had a desire for Jesus. So, what shifted in your willingness to lay the other stuff down in order to engage on what I would call a kingdom level with a kingdom mission in mind? And I would suggest, and I do want to I want to hear what you have to say, that it was a change in priority, it was a change in submission, uh and it was a recognition on a heart level of the one that you were now giving yourself to. Is that would that be accurate?

SPEAKER_01 18:43

So, yes, and uh it was initially um triggered by someone holding me accountable, actually. His name is Michael Cocini. Um, he put out a lot of Christian content on online. I think his handle is is or was the war within. I think he's doing something different. That's neither here nor there. He basically um became a friend of mine through the social media content, through mindset stuff, but he was more uh biblical based. And we had met, and I told him what I was what I was doing and some of the processes I was using, and he was really trying to encourage me away from that. And I was kind of listening, it made sense. And then one day he sent me a text message and he says, That's a wrap on our friendship because he saw that I posted something that was borderline new agey. Yeah, and he and he he gave it to me harshly, let's put it that way. And he he basically rebuked me. Yeah, um, and that was the first time in my life that ever happened. Wow, and so that honestly was was the moment. That text was the moment that I I officially decided to choose sides. Um, and so thank you to Mike. We don't talk anymore, and I hope maybe he'll see this. But uh, you know, that that was a blessing at the time, even though I was really hurt by it.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

But it's the importance of community, yeah, it's the importance of a standard. But from that point, there just in knowing you and having the chance to talk to you, your heart has shifted into a place where what you're doing and what we're doing here, the reason why this exists and we're sitting at this table right now is because your desire is to be able to speak about Jesus. And that doesn't happen unless there is a shift in priority and a heart change. And so, what I want to actually just communicate to anybody who's listening the way that we get away from behavior modification, the way that we move beyond just trying to accomplish something with our faith, checking a box when we're reading the word, um, anything that is more flesh-driven, right? Uh, and it's not to say there isn't effort that we have to put in. We we always qualify this, but I think it's important. It's not to say there isn't anything for us to do. We don't just receive Jesus and then sit around and wait for everything to happen around us. We move in obedience. But the priority, the thing that has to happen is that we have to come to a place of recognizing the goodness of God, the love that he has for us, and who Jesus is. Because unless we fall in love with him, everything does become a job, it becomes a task, and it will be short-lived because it is in our own strength and ability. And the more that I have grown in my faith in Jesus, the more that I have realized that the only thing that lasts and actually produces change in me is a place of love for him. Deep and true and authentic love for Jesus. And sometimes because that's a little bit more conceptual, at least the way it feels, than practical, we can put less of a priority on that. We can put less of a significance on that. But unless we've fallen in love with Jesus, everything else can be my own works and my own ability under the title of Jesus. Jesus, but without the the authenticity of who I've been called to be. And so that's that's something I really want to drive in because what we've endeavored to do in the fifth gospel is not just talk about the why, but talk about the how. And the how to me starts with I need to position myself. We talked about this in in the in the episode previously, about how we pray. And even in starting in that prayer, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name. Just stopping right there. God, you are holy, you are beautiful, you are wonderful. Orienting our heart with that reality is where everything else comes out of. And so my suggestion, okay, I've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer I who lives, but Christ that lives within me. Even before that, meditating on the truth of what it means that he died for us. Yes, he died to give us new life, but first he had to give his life. He had to give everything that he had to be able to restore us back to relationship with him, and he was willing to do it.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah, and this is where I I was reminded of Peter in uh Galatians because as you're talking here, it reminds me that I've I've already kind of accepted that I've I've I've died with Christ, you know, and I'm a new creation, but I also haven't always seen the fruit of that or the manifestation of that in in my life. Yeah um, and then I came across uh the story of Paul confronting Peter. Can we can we talk about that? Because it and then it's also connected to how my my friend, former friend, maybe a friend in the future, Mike, um, he held me accountable and had like it wasn't a public confrontation like Peter um is is confronted by Paul, but we see like this fear of man, we see a desire for approval, we see a fear of rejection, we see conflict avoidance. These are all things that we deal with in in modern times that can conflict with our faith and our identity in Christ. So can we go, can we actually go through uh that that that story real quick? Yeah, this is in Galatians 2, 11 through 14. Uh it starts uh when Stephus, who was Peter, uh came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face. This is Paul saying this to Peter, um, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles, but when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in this hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy, even Barnabas was led astray. When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:04

Yeah. It's powerful.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

So what was going on here? Like who, first of all, like we did a uh a Bible study recently for the men's group, and I love the the approach you took with looking at this at different levels and layers. Um, can we can we kind of unpack it that way? Like, what are what are the who are the stakeholders? What's going on? What don't we know at this point? What do we know?

SPEAKER_04 25:23

Yeah. So we have this full context. Peter, obviously a disciple of Jesus. Um, Jesus makes it clear, even in his conversation at the well, that he's come first for the Jews and then for the Gentiles. Uh, so there is this element of his ministry in which he comes first to the people of Israel, the chosen people, Jesus himself being a Jew. Um, and so we also recognize, though, that when he goes to the cross, he dies, he dies for all mankind, not just for the Jewish people, but for everybody. Everybody is invited into this promise of new life in Jesus. And he tells them, I want you to go out and preach the gospel to everyone. I want you to start in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. So start in Israel and work your way out from there. So Peter and Paul are both empowered by Jesus. Now, Peter in life, um, uh Saul, who becomes Paul, he is confronted by Jesus on the way to Damascus, and that's another story, but I'm sure many would be aware of that. So uh Peter has a ministry primarily to the Jews, and Paul, who is formerly Saul, has a ministry primarily to the Gentiles. And so both of them are operating in the same time within church context. But Peter has this unique experience where he's on his rooftop and he has a vision come down from heaven, and it's a sheet and it has all this clean uh food on there that is deemed unclean because under the Hebrew tradition, you can only eat certain things and you couldn't eat every everything, like shellfish, uh, animals with cloven hoofs, um, reptiles, all these things. And it says that the vision comes down and the voice says, Rise, Peter, kill and eat. And he says, There's no way, God, I'm not touching that stuff that's unclean. And Jesus rebukes him and says, Don't call what I have called clean unclean. And right after that, he gets invited to the house of Gentiles, non-Jewish believers. He is speaking to them, they're talking, he tells them about the story, the Holy Spirit comes and falls on them, and he goes back and he tells the rest of the Jewish believers, hey guys, God is here. Jesus is here not just for us as the Jews, but also for the Gentiles. So he has this amazing experience. Now we fast forward to this, and evidently there's a time where Peter is eating with the Gentiles, spending time with the Gentiles until the Jews show up. And the Jews show up and they have their understanding of what is clean and unclean. They have this understanding of what the circumcision is, which is something that was commanded to Abraham and went through the generations. Um, and so Peter apparently backs off of his relationship with the Gentiles when the Jews show up. And Paul's like, Whoa, what's going on? Because the gospel is for all. And this is near and dear to Paul's heart. He is he's going after the Gentiles. He is establishing churches all throughout the the area that are Gentile first. Um, and so Paul comes to Peter and says, Hey, what you're doing is not in step with the truth of the gospel. You are operating out of fear of man. This is remarkable for many reasons. Number one, Peter is one who has been forgiven so much. He's the one before the death of Jesus that denies Jesus three times, and Jesus restores him back on the beach after his resurrection and says, Do you love me, feed my sheep? Do you love me, feed my sheep? Do you love? And he's like, Yes, Lord, I love you. Okay, so I want you to do this. And so Peter has been forgiven much, and yet somehow in this moment, he forgets the grace that's been given to him and he operates back in the flesh. But Paul, one who was saved after him, one who um had his own past of persecuting Christians, comes and says, Peter, this is not right. And so what we're seeing here is exactly what you said. Paul is holding Peter accountable, not to his own desires, not to his own thinking of what was right or wrong. He says, You are not in step with the truth of the gospel. So taking this even further in our relationship and our friendship, in our relationship with other believers, when we confront them, it has to be out of the truth of the gospel. What has Jesus said? And are we living in accordance with that? Um, and we need people in our lives to be able to do exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Yeah, and I think that's like the the key practical piece of advice here that I realize is so important in my life. One, because I've been the recipient of that accountability and that sometimes rebuke, but also now I've been more bold in my confrontation of maybe that's not the right word, but of pointing out to my fellow brother in Christ, like, hey, you got to clean this up. And because I think we get caught up with the hey, take the log out of your own eye first, which is important, but we're also called to hold each other accountable, clearly. Yeah, um, and so I I've been doing a better job or trying to do a better job of when I see a friend, like I said, a brother or sister in Christ is doing something that's clearly uh wrong, yeah. Um lovingly, you know, saying, Hey, yeah, you need to re-examine yourself.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

That requires maturity.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

Because in the same way that, okay, Peter had a fear of what the Jewish people were gonna think, Paul could have been like, I've got a fear of what Peter's gonna think. Yeah. And that doesn't seem to be Paul's MO. He doesn't really seem to back down very often. But if we really love somebody and we're in relationship with them, and Paul and Peter did have a relationship, um, then we should be able to go to them out of a place of maturity to say, I don't think what you're doing or what you said was actually in alignment with the example that Jesus gave us. And so when we read in the book of Ephesians that we as the body are joined together as multiple parts under one head, it's this recognition that we're called to walk in unity with one another because we're following Jesus. He's the head. And so, as the church, we have a responsibility. As Christians, we have a responsibility to him first and to each other to function in a way that is the best representation of who Jesus is, so that the world would see our example, see Jesus, and follow him. And so in this case, Peter was not walking out the truth of the gospel. I'm sure that there was offense taking place because the Gentiles, Gentiles are like, hey, what happened? I thought we were good, and all of a sudden they show up, and now we're, and now you're you're spending more time with them, you're not spending time with us, what's going on? And so Paul was willing to, regardless of what the consequences were going to be, to go to him in a place of maturity and a place of love and say, that's that's not right.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

How do you see this show up in modern times? Because I know you counsel a lot of people. Where are the most frequent areas of um obedience being uh put to the side for comfort? Like you get what I'm saying? Like, where do you find people are are uh leaning more towards comfort than obedience? And they have they're like in direct conflict with with each other?

SPEAKER_04 32:52

Yeah, I think places where we're offended uh is really the biggest place this happens because somebody does something and now because we were offended or because we saw them do something that that hurt me in some way, I now feel justified to respond in kind, to hold unforgiveness. And it's very subtle and it's very sneaky. But often you'll be talking to somebody and they'll say something about somebody else, and they're like, um uh, they say something and you're like, hey, that thing you just said seems like something's going on here. Is anything going on? Oh no, no, it's fine. But really, because what you said, it sounded like you have an offense there, and it becomes this blind spot. And I forget the specific passage, but um, it's when when you're going to bring an offering before before God, and you remember you have an offense against your brother, you have to first leave it there. That's what Jesus says. It's Matthew 5, 24. Leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them, then come and offer your gift. And the reason why this one is so important is because what I just said, we're meant to walk in unity together with Jesus as the head. When there's division in the body, it's like we're beating our, we're beating ourselves up, we're beating the body up because of offense or unforgiveness. And this doesn't just happen in a local church context. Unfortunately, this happens on a on a much bigger scale in the body of Christ, where people can uh they wouldn't say this about somebody maybe that they know, but if there is a pastor on a high platform and he falls or makes a mistake, everybody is like, hey, you need to step down, you need to resign. You did this, this, and this. Get out of there. You're not fit for ministry anymore. And it's like, whoa. We're putting all this out for everyone to see. We're calling these people out. Sometimes it's right, but often it's because we have an offense, we have a judgment against somebody, and we are not protecting unity, we are all too quick to be able to tear them down. And I part of the conversation could be how this is happening on a macro scale as well. Well, we're seeing this in politics, we're seeing this in the world, division is so prevalent. Um, and it's something that we can excuse away. And if we aren't aware of where division, um unforgiveness and judgment is present inside of us, we won't realize the effect that it has on our internal world. And it's hard to see ourselves, and that's why we need community, we need brothers and sisters to be able to say, hey, what's going on here? Have you gone and talked to them about it? Have you dealt with this thing? Because it's eating you up and it needs to be addressed.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

And it just reminds me how that's the biggest problem in society today is that there's this pursuit of self-righteousness, self-control, but from like a self-reliance standpoint, pride and not a posture of surrender. And if we were all surrendered to Jesus, we would have a much better world right now, you know?

SPEAKER_05 35:55

No question about it.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Um, okay, so speaking of being crucified with Christ, and that's been the main topic of our conversation today. Uh, and oh, by the by the way, we we don't we're not good at CTAs, we're not at the call to action. I want to encourage uh the listener or the view reviewer here. Um, if you're someone who doesn't want to just listen, but you want to put all these things into action, uh, hit the subscribe button, leave us a review. Uh, only if we've earned it though, obviously. Um, and also uh we do have the the honor of having a lead pastor from a local church here in the Hudson Valley, the gathering. Um, if you are local or want to travel to to check out the the gathering, and I know you'd encourage them to do so.

SPEAKER_05 36:31

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

But I also I want to I want to take a moment to here, middle of the episode here, to to just thank you for for being here. Um you know, you could be listening to any podcast, uh, but you chose to be here. Um and and we really that's why that's why you and I are here is not because we want more eyeballs, not because we want more views, um, but I know you and I are on the same mission for multiplication, right? So that we can equip the disciples and uh they can then go out and create more disciples.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Um so with that, in order to be a disciple, we we we we titled this episode Start With You, right? I think too many people are focused on out there and not enough on it in here. And if you want to be a disciple who's living out the commission, who's you know, healing the sick, who's doing deliverance and casting out demons, who's performing miracles, who's spreading the gospel, who's evangelizing, um, we have to we have to focus on our identity in Christ first and being crucified with him, which brings us to the verse of the episode that I have here is Galatians 2.20. Um and I I want to take some some time. I know we just took time on on the story of of Peter and Paul and Paul confronting Peter. Um, but can we can we like wade in the water here for a little bit on Galatians 2.20? Because this is this is the core message for me on this episode. Um, and I'll I'll read it here and then we can unpack it. Um so it says, I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. Now there's a few things that stand out to me, and I I want to hear your take because you you have many more hours of of biblical study than I do. But the first thing that stands out is that this is past tense, right? I have been crucified with Christ.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

It's not something we're again pursuing, yeah, but it's something that's already happened. Yeah. Where does your mind go when when you read this verse?

SPEAKER_04 38:27

Yeah, there's so much in it. I would say the first thing is the recognition of what he has already done for us is not based on our ability to feel it or to even recognize it on an emotional level. We have a very difficult time receiving truth that doesn't give us an emotional, a positive emotional response. No. We have a difficult time hearing I have been crucified with Christ and trying to rectify the other parts of my life that don't seem to reflect that reality. The truth of the matter is this: Jesus died whether we agree with it or not. He died for us as humanity, whether or not it feels like it. It says in John 3.16, the most simple explanation of this for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever would believe in him would not die but have eternal life. He did it. He did everything that needed to be done. And when we receive it, we also have to receive the reality of what that has made possible for us. So I have died with Christ. Whether or not I feel like it when I wake up in the morning or not, I've died with Christ. Whether or not I made a mistake this afternoon, I have died with Christ. And because of that, I've been given an introduction and a welcome into a new reality, which is to do exactly what it says. It is no longer I that live in the flesh. I don't live by the flesh, but I now live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. So when I come to terms with the fact that he has died for me, that he has invited me into his death and his resurrection, what I now have to come into agreement with is that whether I feel like it or not, I have access into grace through faith. I have access into a new life that wasn't possible before. I did not have a passport to get into this new country. But now I've been given this identification that says you are now welcome into the kingdom of God. And the life that you get to live now is in accordance with that new reality. But if we've been given this new reality through Jesus and we don't realize it, we can still live according to the old way of thinking. And when I'm faced with a challenge, my natural response will be, Well, what do I have to do to get through this? What's my, what do I have to do physically in order to be able to make myself feel better? What do I have to do spiritually? If I read enough verses in the Bible, am I going to feel that I'm worthy of it? Well, this verse doesn't say I've been crucified with Christ when I read my Bible in the morning. As important as that is, it says I've been crucified with Christ, the life I now live. I don't live according to the flesh. I now have access to live by faith in who Jesus is. This is revelation, though, that we can't convince ourselves into. It has to be revelation that comes by the Spirit of God. It has to be the eyes of our heart being open. The very next chapter, if you're reading along with us in Ephesians chapter one, uh Paul prays this over the church in Ephesians 1, verse 17, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. So what does that mean? He is praying that the Holy Spirit, who is God Himself, that He would reveal the truth of what Jesus has done. And practically what this means is the next time that we're facing a temptation, a challenge, an opportunity to walk in offense and unforgiveness, say, Holy Spirit, reveal to me what I now have access to in Jesus. Because Jesus died once and for all, and it says he filled all things. He gave us what we needed if we would receive the reality of what he's done for us.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

So what's the starting point then? Is it for us personally? Where does it start? Obviously, it started with him and what he did, who he is, and who he is, it will continue to be. Yeah. But where does it start? Is it the recognition? Is it that you know, confess with our mouth, believe in our heart? You know, we see the word faith here a lot. Yeah. Where does where's the start? What's the starting point?

SPEAKER_04 42:44

I want to answer this practically. Practically, it starts with the meditation on the finished work of Jesus. I want to recommend a book to everybody, older book, amazing, The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Me. And maybe we can put it in the in the links than the in the show notes. The normal Christian life, it is the reality of the finished work of Jesus. If we would take more time in communion, in our time of prayer with him, in our time of worship to just concentrate on what he did for us on the cross, that is the foundational starting point. And then from that place, worshiping God because of it, thanking him for what he has done, and then recognizing the application in the reality, in the in the very practical ways of our lives to be able to say, okay, this is what I'm facing. Be very clear. I'm facing this challenge right now. Did the death of Jesus give me the empowerment to overcome or to at least walk through this situation with the expectation that he's going to give me what I need? So, was the death of Jesus enough? We have to answer that question. We can think it conceptually, and we think because it's somewhere in the recesses of our mind that it has power. No, bring it to the forefront. Is what Jesus did for me enough? Yes. Okay. So, Lord Jesus, in this moment, I receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit through your finished work. In this specific moment, with this bill in front of me, with this relational problem going on right now, I receive what you have done for me. And it's in that place that I'm no longer living according to the flesh, which is to go and think of my own solution. It's to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal himself in faith that, oh, he's got a better way. He's got an answer in this. It's already done. I don't have to earn my way into it. It's already done. I have been crucified with Christ. The old nature has been dealt with. So, Jesus, I don't know what this looks like, but I really want to live this out. Show me. Reveal yourself to me. And it's one of those things that the more that we do it, the more natural it becomes, the more it just becomes a part of our lives and we start to live out of this new reality. It's the process of sanctification and transformation.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

And that's honestly what I what I do struggle with full transparency is I all do, just for the record. Yeah. I I understand all of this conceptually. And I heard someone say uh that a lot of people are going to miss heaven by about 18 inches, the distance between their head and their heart. Um, but what I've always relied on is that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And every time we have these conversations, and the more I stay in this book, um, and the more I interact with other believers and I get involved in the church and I'm busy for the kingdom, that bolsters my faith. And it staying in Galatians, it reminded me here that I have I have circled. It's uh Galatians 3, 2. Let me ask you this one question. Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not. You receive the Spirit because you believe the message you heard about Christ. And so the more I can, like you said, meditate on the message I've heard about Christ, the more my faith is bolstered, and the more everything that I experience flows from that.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

Yeah. Everything that is law-based, when Paul references the law, which he does often in the book of Romans, in the book of Galatians, and throughout the epistles, the letters that he wrote to the churches, we see him talk about the law. The law was a very good thing. The law was given by God, but the law, very explicitly through the writing of Paul, was given to us to show us that in our flesh we could not do enough to earn righteousness. It was there as a good thing to reveal our inadequacy. So I don't obtain righteousness. I didn't receive the spirit by works of the law, but it was through faith because Jesus came to do what the law couldn't do. He came to give us the empowerment that we needed through his work. And so we have to see ourselves as we're walking through this life, not just being saved by a savior that's way down the road, waiting for us to get to him. We have been given salvation by a savior who is here and present with us in the moment. He is our ever-present help in time of need. You're not walking through a crisis of faith without him. You're not walking through a situation that you can't overcome without him. He's present with you in that moment. And it's through our faith in what he has done that we receive the empowerment to be able to do what he's called us to do. But this isn't formulaic. It's not, once again, and I keep going back to this. Did I do enough good today in order to receive his goodness? No, he did it. I received it. I'm gonna live out of that. And the more I live out of that, the more I find that, oh, I'm walking in what I would call righteousness. My behavior is now reflecting who he is because it's no longer I that live, but Christ that lives within me. It's not the law, it's grace through faith. And this has to be a daily endeavor because we so naturally fall back into our own way of doing things. But Romans 12, too, don't be conformed any longer to the ways of thinking that is according to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. And not just that we would be transformed by the renewal of our mind, but it says that when we are renewed in our mind, that it's so that we can uh actually test what is good and acceptable and perfect. It says, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. When our minds are being transformed, we have the ability to discern what God is doing. And the final thing I'll say on this is that once we get to this place, we're not just getting to a place of survival. We're not just treading water. We are actually moving in the spirit. There's a difference between being in the water and just treading water trying to breathe, and being in a race where you're on a mission trying to accomplish something. We're not just meant to be treading water. Absolutely. We're meant to be moving in the spirit and being able to accomplish what he has for us.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

And you mentioned Romans 12, too. That's that's my favorite Bible verse because there's so much power in that. Um, and what what actually just came to my mind for the first time is you pointed out the discernment that comes with the transformation of the mind. So discernment is not just a facet of the spirit, it's a facet of the mind, which is interesting. Um, and also the way I've looked at this too is like even the consumption of information, like even listening to you right now or the person listening, if you're listening to us talk, it's almost like a form of repentance in real time. And not a repentance of like saying I did something, but it is that it's that reorientation towards Christ, it's the changing of the mind, which is we look at the original words for repentance, um, and it's that ongoing repentance process of consuming this information, of consuming the word, which is having a real neurological effect.

SPEAKER_05 50:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Um, and so that all this stuff amazed me, and that's why I love that verse because God is so amazing how he designed things. It's not just the supernatural, it's not just the spiritual, it's not just the practical and the physiological, all of it works together cohesively. Um, and you know what? They didn't have words for like neuroplasticity back 2,000 years ago. They didn't know a Greek word for neuroplasticity, not that I've that I've come across, but all these things he put out and laid out so simply, but so profoundly in black and white for us. Thank God. Yeah. Um who was it that said the Bible's basic instructions before leaving Earth, right? Yeah. Um, it's all in here. Yeah. And I in, you know, I I think a lot of people resonate when I say this is for so long I consumed information for sport. I'd read for sport, especially being an entrepreneur. If I only had the right business strategy, if I only had the right self-help book, the the right technique, then I would be successful. Um, and recently, not that I don't read other books anymore, but I've realized this is like this is the business book. Yeah, this is the life book, this is the relationship book. Um, and if only we were to turn to him and recognize what he's already done and who he is in our lives and then who we are because of it, uh, as we see in Galatians 2.20, it manifests in our life naturally.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

Yeah. There's an empowerment in it to live differently. And I think that's what we started with. How do we live differently? Yeah. How do we make the decisions that are difficult and overcome the things that are challenging? Yeah. It starts with that change in heart posture of God, you are so good. You love me, and you did everything that needed to be done. So, how do I now start to walk in the fulfillment of that? I entrust my life to you, not just as a whole, but situation by situation, moment by moment. How do I invite you into those moments so that you can give me the grace that I need, which continues to give me greater trust and confidence so that even when I start with the little things, when the big life-changing moments come, I'm actually prepared. I'm ready to put my trust in you because I put it into practice.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

So, how do we turn head nods into footsteps? How do how do we actually motivate people or even give them some sort of framework, uh, a jumping off point, if you will? And you know, and I ask this kind of not rhetorically, but because this is my intention today to to wrap this episode up with um kind of a spiritual checkup. Yeah, we see in 2 Corinthians 13, 5, examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith, test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you unless, of course, you fail the test. So I would like to tease out and and kind of give uh a checklist, if you will, because to me it's like we do physical checkups, yeah, we do mental checkups. Why not do a spiritual checkup that's rooted in in scripture? Um, and I'm gonna, if you don't mind, I'm gonna give you what I kind of researched and what I found in scripture, and then we can expand on it and we can subtract and add and whatnot. So the first thing I think is important is one, it's the authenticity of your faith, right? It's not just intellectuals, like, did it make it to your heart? Do you believe in your heart that leads uh that Jesus is who he says he is, that he's a Lord over your life? And that's where it starts, right? Starts with the gospel, starts with the good news of what he did and who we are in Christ, um, which leads me to the identity piece, right? Who are we in Christ? What does it mean to be a disciple? What are our responsibilities as part of the great the great commission? And then ultimately, does this bear fruit? Is there tangible physical evidence in our relationships, in our business, in our lives that point back to that identity and point back to Jesus, which ultimately will show us where we're out of alignment in thought, feeling, and action? And I think if we were to wrap that in a nice tiny bow, it's like, okay, does our mind, like our thoughts, our heart, and our desires, and ultimately the way our mission manifests in our life tangibly through our actions, is that congruent with his mission for our life and our identity in him?

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Um, so that's where I that's where I I I marinated on this, and I asked myself, if I could go through a checklist to make sure everything was checked off, to say, hey, if I was going to do a spiritual audit on myself to determine where I'm at currently, um, these were these were the the simplest questions I could come up with to start.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

Um when Jesus said that a tree would be known by its fruit, he said that because there is meant to be actual evidence of the change that has occurred within us. And so what you're saying is so right on. There needs to be an actual representation of what we are believing here that makes it to hear, that then expresses itself in a tangible way. And so what I would say is that if we're talking about fruit specifically, let's go back to the book of Galatians, that's where we started with. Uh it says in Galatians chapter five, verse 22. Uh, and this is something that we often learn in church as children. It says, But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. We call this the fruit of the spirit. And so when we are aligning ourselves with the spirit of God in our lives, the result and the fruit of that is that there should be a producing of this fruit in the situations of our life. I want to change. Awesome. Okay. But in order to change, we need to start walking in a different reality than we walked in before. So in my life, is there an evidence of love? And we can look in 1 Corinthians 13 and see how love acts. Is there joy? Is there peace? Is there patience coming out of my life? Do I have self-control? Am I operating within these places where Paul says, if you are in the spirit, it will look like something, it will look like these things. If we want a checklist, a very practical one, let's print out the fruit of the spirit and say, Is this present in my life? And when we react in a way that is not in accordance with that, okay, where was the love? Where was the joy? Where was the peace? It wasn't there because I moved back into a fleshly pursuit of what being a Christian looks like. I did it out of the flesh. And so there was actually results of the flesh. There was fruit of the flesh. I need to go back into that moment the next time that it comes up and to recognize okay, it doesn't feel possible for me to be loving right now, but Holy Spirit, you're in me. It doesn't feel possible for me to be patient right now. I've got to do all these things. But Holy Spirit, your fruit is patience within me. It doesn't feel possible to have joy right now. I'm going through all these things. Holy Spirit, it's that's the checklist. Yeah. Very practical. Yeah. All right, if we're going to be very practical, Galatians chapter 5, verses 22 and 23. That's what it looks like for us to walk in the spirit.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

Yeah. And so this also sounds to me like yes, these are the things that we're experiencing internally, and they will manifest physically in our relationships in the situation that we're in. And also, I imagine that we can look at sin in our lives too, habitual or otherwise, to point to how those things manifest, right?

SPEAKER_04 57:38

Well, if we back up a little bit before that, he talks about what the works of the flesh are, and there's a whole list of them. You could read through them: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like that.

unknown 57:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:55

We've got a pretty long list of what it looks like to do the contrary as well.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

And I want I want to sound like a I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, but I want to put an emphasis on this. I am not perfect, but I have seen firsthand, and this is this is a recent testimony of mine, um, is doing these sort of things, getting involved in the church, once again, getting to work for the kingdom, helps you overcome these things so much more easily from a even a practical perspective.

SPEAKER_05 58:20

You lose an appetite.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

You lose an appetite. Now you you have that spiritual nourishment, which is obviously coming from the word, but also it's being made manifest in your life. And the devil would love to keep your attention on the things of this world, and that's why they're so dangerous, is because they really do a good job at consuming the flesh, like you know, and we're consuming it distracting. Yes. So the devil tries to keep us busy in those things. Um, I would encourage anybody listening to this, is I'm not saying you have to go volunteer at the church. I think that would be a great thing to do.

SPEAKER_04 58:51

We'd love to have you if you're in the Poughkeepsie area.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

For sure. Start a little Bible study. If it's just you and another friend, like those, even just those little things. I've realized those days are so much not easier for me in like easy sense, but like the control, the ability to move my control back to like what I should be focused on in Christ. Yeah, that that refractory period is so much shorter. I might still have a sinful thought, I might have an inclination or a craving or a temptation, but the control factor now has increased because now I'm strengthening my mind, my soul, right, towards the kingdom. Absolutely. So I just I once again I know it's not like a broken record here, but get involved in the church, do something for the kingdom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:33

Even on Zoom, you could have a Bible study on Zoom. Yeah, you could do those things in community. You you talked about the interaction between Paul and Peter that only happened because there was community, there was relationship to be able to hold each other accountable. Yeah, we need that.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Absolutely. So I'm gonna end with some diagnostic questions here. Um, and you tell me what you think about these. But the first thing that comes up is it pretty obvious. Like if someone observed your life, would they conclude that you follow Jesus?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:01

Yep. So good.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Would they see that you are the fifth gospel? Yeah. We've talked about this ad nauseum now.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:06

Yeah, I will continue to.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Yeah. Um, two, and I think this is interesting. We don't always consider this. What has changed in you over the last 90 days? Because this is a a continual process of growth.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Um, three, what is the last thing God told you to do that you haven't done?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:25

So good.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

Man, I I'm guilty of this. Like, even if it's like, hey, you should go talk to that person. Yeah, hey, you know, you should bring this conversation up to that family member. Um I find myself getting more confident in doing these things now, but I also know that delayed obedience is still disobedience. I can we can we pause on this for a second here. What what do you have to say about listening to God and being obedient? Because I know for me, sometimes like, did I think that? Was that actually a nudging from the Holy Spirit? How do we actually know when is the right time to do the thing that we think God is telling us to do?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:05

This could be and should be a whole entire conversation. Is it in alignment with scripture or is it not? That's let's just make it so simple. Okay, did do you feel like God's calling you to do something? Does it violate his nature, his example, or his word? If it doesn't, then what would be the doubt the downside? What would be the detriment in doing that thing? Sometimes we just have to make it very simple. And then he says, My sheep, they know my voice and they follow me in the voice of another, they won't. The more that we start to walk in obedience when we feel that he's saying something, the clearer his voice becomes. And that is what it is. It's okay, I felt this was the Lord. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I I feel like it is. I'm gonna be obedient to it. You do that obedience, the next time becomes easier and easier, and his voice becomes clearer and clearer.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Absolutely. And then the next question here this kind of reminds me of the Pharisees and how they operated, right? It's like if sin had no consequence, would I still choose righteousness? Right? If I wasn't being observed, would I still operate in a way that's indicative of righteousness? Yeah. So check your heart. What and this goes back to the things that are happening internally. Audit that inner dialogue. What are you saying about yourself to yourself? What are you saying about other people to yourself? What is actually what's that mental that chatter? What is the dialogue there? Because that's gonna point to things that are coming up subconsciously and that are really deep in your heart. Um, and be honest with yourself. And then, of course, we have uh the last two questions here. How do I treat others? Pretty obvious one. And then have I impacted anyone spiritually in the last 30 days? This podcast is about action. And I want to make sure that we hold people accountable.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

Um, and also I'm projecting here. This is holding me accountable by even talking about these things. Um, but discipleship is action.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

So what what have you done over the last 30 days and what are you gonna do tomorrow?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Is there a friend that you need to reach out to? You need maybe there's something in this episode that we've talked about that you can just bring up to a friend who's like spiritually open. And I I think that's a good person to start with. It's not the person who's like a hundred percent against Christianity. Start with the spiritually open person who respects you, who trusts you. And I think it was Pastor Jeff Banke who said, uh, be a friend first, right? Of course, make a friend, be a friend, lead them to Jesus. And sometimes that takes some time, um, but start the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

That's I think the thing that all of us could do today is start the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:42

Agreed. Yeah. And whoever it is, God loves them more than you ever could. So allow him to lead through you. Yeah. Allow him to speak through you, allow him to give you the heart that you need to be able to reach them.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

And so lastly, here let's say someone's listening to this, they've done this spiritual checkup, they've asked themselves these diagnostic questions, if you will, and they found some areas that need to be to be worked on. Maybe there is sin in their life. Um, maybe they find that that inner dialogue is is not orientated towards Christ-like thoughts and and the mind of Christ. Um, what should they do? What's the f where do they need to start in in optimizing their spiritual health?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:27

Yeah. Prayer. I love what Paul prays, and we mentioned this last time, but Ephesians chapter one. He says, I pray that the Lord God, the Father of glory, may give you the spirit of wisdom and of revelation and the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts in light, and that you may know what the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power towards us who believe according to the working of his great might, that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at the right hand in heavenly places, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age, but in the one to come. It is that realigning under the Lordship of Jesus. It is recognizing what he has called us to and asking for that Holy Spirit revelation that we need, because we're not going to be able to do this in our own strength. And the more we try in our own strength and our own ability, the more we'll come up short. But the more that we rely on the Holy Spirit to empower us, it is that supernatural empowerment that we need to be able to become who he's called us to be. And even if it doesn't feel that that makes all the difference in the world, I promise you, it's giving him permission to act on our behalf and through us.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

Amen. And this is also, it's not just a it's not just a Jesus thing acting on it or God acting on it. It's us acting on it. What are we going to do with this information? Um, and I have here as as kind of the Period to this episode is confess, repent, act. Um, there are spiritual consequences, there are physical consequences, we reap what we sow, but God has given us a formula, if you will, to bring it in confession, to repent for it actively, and then to act out the change in your life.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Right?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:22

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

All right. So with that, can you pray us out of here?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

Absolutely. Lord Jesus, I thank you that in everything that we do, as we put our eyes on you, you've called us into greater things. You've called us to be able to walk in realities that are bigger than we could ever imagine. And so, as we bring our greatest strengths before you, as we bring our passions and our desires, I thank you that it's only you that can take those things and use them for greater realities than we could ever understand. And so, Jesus, we choose to trust in you today. We thank you for the empowerment of your Holy Spirit, for grace that we have by faith in you. I pray that in everything we do that we would recognize your presence in it and that you are leading us and you're guiding us into a truth that is greater than our own. We thank you for all this in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Amen.