Jesus Explained Why Christians Stay Stuck

In this episode of The Fifth Gospel, the hosts walk through Matthew 13:1–23 and unpack the Parable of the Sower through a practical three-level Bible study framework.

They explore how Jesus’ teaching about the four soils applies to modern distractions, spiritual warfare, persecution, comfort, and the “cares of the world” that choke spiritual growth and fruitfulness.

Topics include:
* The Parable of the Sower explained
* The meaning of the four soils in Matthew 13
* Why some Christians never bear spiritual fruit
* Spiritual distractions and worldly cares
* Bible study posture, worship, and prayer
* How to study Scripture deeply and contextually
* Perseverance and spiritual growth
* Spiritual warfare and receiving God’s Word
* Proximity to Jesus through worship, Scripture, and church community
* Bearing fruit through faith and obedience

If you’ve struggled with distraction, spiritual stagnation, inconsistency, or understanding Scripture more deeply, this episode offers practical biblical encouragement for cultivating good soil and receiving the Word of God with understanding.


TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Persevering In The Word
03:13 Posture And Prayer
05:04 Read The Parable
06:08 Level One Surface Observations
16:17 Level Two Themes And Context
21:58 Level Three Kingdom And Meaning
27:56 Thorns Cares And Riches
29:54 Thorns Not The Devil
33:24 Soil Audit And Discernment
34:10 Pressure To Be Expert
38:16 Fruit Comes From Understanding
40:30 Greek Insight And Capacity
44:25 Disciples Judas And Soil
47:06 Explain Like Im Five
51:01 Proximity Through Worship Word
53:43 Spiritual Warfare And Authority
55:57 Church Proximity And Closing Prayer

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

No matter where we are, the birds will come quickly to eat the seed, the thorns will come to choke it out. There needs to be a perseverance in this discipline of going into the word and trusting that God's leading us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

It's like the character that's world choking us out spiritually.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

You're not responsible to make produce the fruit. You're responsible to receive what he is saying to you as truth and to attach your faith to it. And when you receive the word, you have the ability to allow it to produce life in you if you continue to invest in it.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

This is what you should be doing when you're doing the Bible study and taking out actively reading, highlighting, underlining, and definitely writing down what's coming to mind.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

There is always an invitation in the world. There's always an invitation in scripture. People spend their entirety of their lives devoted to understanding the word. And we think sometimes that the first time that we read it, we're supposed to get every element of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

In last episode, um, we talked about how to actually study the word, how to engage with it. He gave us a practical step-by-step. And I said that in this episode, we were going to put that into practice so that someone watching, someone watching or listening can actually model what we're doing here, but also can follow along in the literal Bible study that we're doing. So I want this to be like you and me are just two Bible bros, love it, chilling, no cameras, no microphone, even though they're stuffed into our face right now. Um, and I want to go through the parable of the sewer. Okay. And I want to follow that framework that you mentioned. And maybe before we start here, um, you could share a little bit about what we talked about last time and also a little bit about the the framework that you shared, those levels uh to studying passages in the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Yeah. So um once again, giving credit to Nate Edwardson at the Stirring in Redding, California. He introduced this uh method in approaching scripture that I've had a chance to do now numerous times with different groups. And it's a three-part approach to how we uh explore biblical passages. And so uh the first is looking at it on the surface. So reading through a passage as if you had never read it before. The second level, starting to recognize significant moments, emotions, uh, themes that are being uh expressed, and then the third level going deep into it and bringing in context, bringing in other elements of the Bible, maybe even commentaries and word studies. And so looking at the Bible from not just a place of words on a page, but something that I can enter into and engage with on a deeper level. So I'm excited to get to do that here today.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

And so all right, so we're starting in Matthew 13, verse one. This is the parable of the sower. You mentioned kind of the different levels of studying scripture, which we talked uh extensively about in the last episode. Um, I do want to make sure we hit those posture points that we talked about last episode too. Um, so if I'm engaging in this Bible study with you as I am, um, remind me, what are like what's the posture I should be going into this with?

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Yeah, worship always, recognizing the one who wrote the word, who spoke the word is God. And we have the ability to come before him and to read his word. That's the most important starting posture. The second one, making sure that we're not reading this alone. We have the ability to read this with the author himself. So inviting the Holy Spirit into it and recognizing the privilege. We get to come before him and to read the word. And even going back to the 1500s, where it was written in Latin and in languages that they couldn't understand until Martin Luther was like, hey, we should be reading this together. We should be able to understand what's being spoken. We have it in however many different translations with Bible study tools. It's available at our fingertips. So this is a privilege and an honor. So with that posture, let's just pray to start before we jump into it. Lord Jesus, I thank you for who you are first and foremost. I thank you that you gave your life for us and that in reading your word, that we can discover who you are. We can discover what the plan was from the very beginning. We can discover, Lord God, that your life, your death, and your resurrection is what gives us the ability to come before you. And so, Holy Spirit, as we go into your word right now, I pray that you would bring us your insight, that you would bring us revelation, eyes to see, and ears to hear. And that as we explore your word, and as those who are uh joining with us today, as they hear this, as they take part in this study together, that you would reveal your truth to them as only you can in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

All right, so Matthew chapter 13, verse 1, we'll start with verses 1 through 9, and then we're gonna do those three different levels we spoke about, starting on the surface, going deeper, and then jumping in and seeing the depth that's in this. So Matthew 13, one says, That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea, and great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat down, and the whole crowd stood on the beach, and he told them many things in parables, saying, A sower went out to sow, and as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil. But when the sun rose they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. He who has ears, let him hear. So, level one to this, let's start with the most basic of basics. So, in this, we're given the context of who's speaking, which is Jesus. So, first things we want to do is let's look at some basic things in this. So, who do we have present here? All we know from this passage is that Jesus is there, there are crowds gathered around him, and then he is speaking to them. So, in terms of key players, pretty simple. Jesus and crowds. So it's already pretty notable because even if we don't know who Jesus is, what we recognize is that he is somebody who demands the attention of many. There are many who have come to hear what he has to say. So that would be my starting point. And then he tells them what's called a parable because it says to us in verse three, he told them many things in parables. And so he tells them this parable. So um, is there anything on the base level, like when we're looking at this, that stands out to you? Because there's a couple other, even though they're not talking about people, um, even just physical things that we can look at so we can have, so we can paint a picture of what what's being told here in this account.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I mean, like you mentioned, a large crowd. He drew a large crowd. This is he he got into a boat.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

You know, on the surface. I don't really know what that means. Um, and then he sat there and he taught as the people stood on the shore. Um, so so to me, if I'm inferring things, not not to go too deep in this, but like the crowd was so large that he had to have a different vantage point in order to actually preach to them.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Yeah, that's important. So he got into a boat because there were so many people. It also says that he sat down. Um, now what I would do is I would ask the question, is this typical of somebody in his position, which we don't fully know yet? But is there is it typical of someone to sit down to teach or is he tired? Because the first verse says that that same day, that same day indicates something has happened before this. So when we're reading in context, we also want to know the verses preceding and the verses that come after. But on the first level, we're not going there yet. What we're doing is we're just staying within the context of what we see in this passage. So that same day, so something else happened before that. Jesus went out of the house. We don't know whose house yet, but a good thing to write down whose house. So we're asking questions. Great crowds came around him. We don't know how they got there yet. And the whole crowd stood on the beach, and then he told them these things in parables. So even in the first three verses here, before we even get into anything that Jesus said, we're already painting a picture. And this is the beauty of scripture, is that we could read through that and never give a second thought to great crowds, got in a boat that same day, any of those things. But when we're reading to study the Bible and we're realizing that there's depth in it, we're going to pay attention to details that we would ordinarily just read through because every part of them holds depth, it holds meaning, it holds significance. So, okay, so that's just setting the stage for what he begins to speak. And then in your Bible, um, uh not necessarily your Bible, but in many Bibles, uh, as soon as Jesus begins to speak, the letters change from black to red. And so then we start to see, okay, these are words that Jesus is speaking. So he speaks about what? What is he speaking about? He's speaking about a sower, he's speaking about somebody who is planting seed. So once again, we don't know anything outside of this context, but why is it important that he's talking about an agricultural matter?

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Does it do the translations matter? Like mine says farmer.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Yeah. So translations also come into play here. Um, once again, with technology now. We have the ability to read one passage in in multiple translations in parallel. We can read it in ESV, we can read it in New Living Translation, we can read it in message, and we can see how they how they translate this. So uh good to pay attention to. And then later on, we can find that word, what the Greek word is for that, and that's only going to be one word. As it's translated into English, whoever's translating it uses multiple different options, but it's good for us to go back to the original to find out what's being said. So, but for right now, uh, a farmer or a sower, he went out to sow. And as he sowed, so as he is throwing out the seed, some of them are falling on the path. So let's take note of the different places. One falls on the path, the other ones fall on rocky ground, the other ones fall in a place where um there are thorns. The thorns grow up and choke them out. And the fourth option is that some seeds fell on good soil and they produce something. So the ESV says they produce grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. Um, so what does yours say? Is it the same, the same measurements? Is it speaking about it in different contexts?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

It says he scattered he scattered them across his fields. Some seeds fell on a footpath and the birds came and ate them. Other seeds fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seeds sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow, but the plants soon wilted under the hot sun. And since they didn't have deep roots, they died. Other seeds fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants, and then it goes on. Still other seeds fell on fertile soil.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Okay. So I think we've we've at least for this, and depending on how much time you have, you could take a lot of time to do this. But we have some of the basic things. So Jesus comes, people are listening to him, great crowds. He's in a boat, he tells them a parable, and then this is the parable. It's about a farmer who is sowing seed. Some of that sowing is successful, some of it's not, and we have different reasons as to why that is.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

So, what are the four soils again? We have the footpath, the rocky ground.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Correct. Um, we have the amongst the thorns, thorns, and then good soil. Okay. So depending on where they land, there's different results. So on the footpath, uh, the birds come and eat it. The rocky ground, it does start to grow, but because there's no room, there's no room for the roots to go down deep, uh, they die. Um when the sun rises, they're scorched. Uh the other ones go among the thorns. So they grow, but then the thorns choke them out. And then the ones that fall on the good soil produce something. Um, and either a hundredfold, sixty-fold, thirtyfold. So, like, you know, depending on um where they fell, they have growth, and that growth is significant because it's producing exponential. Yeah. And then he finishes it off with these words he who has ears, let him hear. So that seems to indicate that there is a choice to be made and that some are going to hear if they have ears. So I have to figure out what that means, and let him hear. Okay. So that there is this reality that not everybody's going to understand what he's saying. So that's level one. And as we're concluding level one, now I want to start to ask the question: okay, so what genre are we looking at? Where is this account being told? And I use the word account intentionally because it's not a story, it's not a fictional uh narrative of something. It is something that Jesus is speaking. And so this is an account in the Gospels. So in the book of Matthew, Matthew is telling the accounts of what Jesus did and said. And so we have here the initial part, which is the account, which is the first three verses, and then it goes into a parable. So, what's a parable? It's not something that actually happened, but it's a story, it's a method of communicating truth that Jesus uses in order to speak about the realities, in this case, about the kingdom of heaven. So, uh, so we're looking at a nonfiction account of an actual event and a story that was told to the people. So that's level one. So now we have an understanding of the initial part of this, but now we're gonna go deeper. So we're gonna actually get off the paddleboard where we could see the surface, we're gonna get into the water and we're gonna start to experience some of it.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I think something too that surprised me about this that I didn't pay attention to prior to this framework is the importance of, and I know there's part of level two, but who's writing. So taking a mental note in level one of like who's actually writing this account.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah, no, it's really important to be able to recognize that. And like I said, I I encourage people, if they have a study Bible, uh, to go back to the beginning of that uh, not just chapter, but that book to find out who's writing and what their background is. Matthew, a former tax collector, he's gonna be more analytical, he's gonna write these things. And if I remember correctly, and I'm 99% sure about this, he's writing primarily to a Jewish audience. And so there's going to be a method in which he's writing to communicate to the Jewish audience specifically. Um, and if I'm wrong about that, you can tell me in the comments, and I will have known it before you told me because I'm gonna check that as soon as we're done here.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Which, by the way, if you're following along, make sure you hit that subscribe button, share this episode with somebody, and take notes. You know, right now I'm I'm I'm writing because I'm actively engaging with this Bible study as though we weren't recording an episode. But this is what you should be doing when you're doing a Bible study is like taking notes, actively reading, highlighting, underlining, and and definitely writing down what's coming to mind.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Yeah. So that's the best way to do it. Love doing it that way as well. Having a notebook that we read the Bible with, that we pray with, that we write uh, you know, different thoughts and ideas and revelation as we're as it's coming. Okay, so level two, we like to say that the Bible has layers. So this is where we start to notice themes, movement, and an invitation in what's being spoken about to think about it on a deeper level. So the encouragement is don't rush. Don't just try to get this done. Take the time. So we want to ask what stands out in this, what questions are raised, what is the author doing? Why is he communicating things in this way? Um, so we really want to look at what jumps out at us in this. So uh let's bring in a little bit more context in this. So we know that Jesus is at the very least in their eyes, he is a rabbi. They're coming out to hear him because he has something of value to say. And even though we haven't gone further back in the text yet, we know that there is something about what he has done up to this point that has gained credibility, that people are coming to hear what he has to say. And so he is teaching them, and he's teaching them in great number. And what he is talking to them about right now is something in an agricultural context, which would have spoken to them very deeply. Um, in today's day and age, we talk about sports a lot as analogies. We might give a parable based off of being down, you know, full count, bottom of the ninth, your team's on the, you know, the games on the line. For them, they're talking about what they understand, which is agriculture. A farmer goes out to sow. If you don't sow, you don't reap. If you don't sow, you don't have food that comes out of the ground. And so where you're sowing actually matters. And so as they're listening to this, they're probably thinking, oh, yeah, when I was sowing that seed, I really make sure I'm not gonna just throw it on the footpath, I'm not gonna throw it amongst the thorns. I'm gonna be intentional about how I'm doing this. So I can relate to this, I can understand what he's saying here. And so Jesus says that there was some seed that fell along a path. The birds came and ate it. And as we said, the rocky ground, uh, the thorns, but some produce good soil. So as they're hearing this, they're thinking, I want to put my seed in a place that's going to produce good soil. I want to have a result of the investment that I'm making because for them, their life depended on it. Now, think about that from our perspective. Like if we're thinking about a farmer planting seed, we're like, well, I would just go to the store and just buy more of it. No, this has significance to them. So if we understand the significance that this had to them, now we can start to put ourselves in that position.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Is that part of level two? Like, I because I'm already starting to apply this to my life. Is that level two or does that come on?

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Yeah, well, we're asking questions about why this mattered. Gotcha. Why would this have been significant to them? And so this is significant to them because once again, this would have been their livelihood. They can relate, they can relate very strongly to this. And then I would just, and if we were doing this as a group, I take a little bit more time. But verse nine, Jesus says these words, he who has ears, let him hear. Now, if you've gone out to hear somebody speak, somebody who you really appreciate, somebody who you respect. Let's just say, like a Jordan Peterson, for instance, like a notable intellectual mind of our day, and you want to go out and you want to hear something that's gonna come from a different place than you've heard it before. And he says to the to the audience there, he says, not everybody's gonna understand this, but like if you have the ability, you should really devote yourself to understanding this. What's that gonna do in you?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

You're gonna take it seriously?

SPEAKER_03 19:56

You're gonna take it seriously. Now, for some, depending on where they are, depending on what their context is, they might be like, I didn't understand any of that, I'm out. Like Jesus would often speak, this is too hard. Who can understand this? And they're out. But for those who are hungry, they're going to take the time to desire to know what he's saying. There's always an invitation in the words of Jesus. There's always an invitation in scripture. And so as we're reading this, we should be thinking, okay, what I'm investing in my life, what does that look like? Where is it going? Is it producing something? And when Jesus is speaking, am I somebody who has ears to hear? Or am I somebody who just quickly moves on to the next thing? So we we want to just ask about what the text is saying here, and then we're gonna move to level three. But is there anything specific in these nine verses that really is like it's bringing up a question in you?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah, I mean first questions that come to mind are like, what do the seeds represent? What is symbolic about the birds? Yep, you know, the thorns, all of those things are kind of prompting me to ask, like, okay, well, why was he using I know he was using this because they would relate to it, but clearly each individual component of the parable was symbolic um and had some utility for something specific.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Yeah, yeah. So those are the right questions to ask. Those are the things that you want to be looking at in terms of um, why did he use these specific things? And the beauty of this is that when we go into level three, not always do we see Jesus fully define everything that he said, but as we read this, his disciples are going to come to him and they're gonna say, Hey, I didn't understand this. Like, can you can you shine some light on this as well? Um, which is really good. So let's let's now dive deep into this and ask more questions. So we know Jesus is. The Messiah, the Son of God, they're following him because he has performed miracles, because they've heard the accounts and the stories of what he has done. And the people of Israel, they are looking for a messiah. They are hungry, they are seeking, they are under the oppression of Rome and they want to break free from it. And so he's going to be talking to them about something called the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of heaven to them represents everything that they were promised through Abraham. And when their Messiah shows up, he's going to bring them into a kingdom. Now, we know in context, they don't fully understand this. This, they have their own understanding of what this is going to look like. But it doesn't stop Jesus from giving them the principles and the truth of what it is that they need to know to enter into this kingdom that he has come to establish. So now in level three, let's examine the context of all of this. Let's talk about which we just did some of the Old Testament implications. They knew a coming Messiah was coming. They've been looking for him. Jesus has arrived. And now let's talk about what Jesus meant in the sowing of the seeds. And as I said, we don't always have this luxury. To a certain extent, we we always will have other scripture that will reveal it, but the answer doesn't always come immediately. So that's where the study really comes in. But in this in particular, verse 10, so the very next verse after this, then the disciples came to him and said, Why do you speak to them in parables? So this answers one of our questions, right? It says that Jesus would in verse three, and he told them many things in parables. So if we don't know what parables are, that's a question that we're going to have, and now it's going to be answered for us. And Jesus answered them, To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case, there is a prophecy from Isaiah that is fulfilled. It talks about them not being able to see. But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears for they hear. For truly I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, which is the fulfillment of prophecy through Jesus and the kingdom, but they did not see it, and to hear what you hear and did not hear it. And then he says to them, and he tells them the what he meant in the parable of the sower. So before we get to his explanation of it, in our lives, we look at this and we say, okay, once again, seed is something valuable. So what would that look like for us today? For them, that's what they needed to eat and survive. What would our seed look like?

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Well, I mean, honestly, for me, I don't know if this is the the I I maybe not necessarily the right answer, but to me, it's like even reading this is like the seed that's being planted. Like, is the word being planted? Yeah, you know. So when I think about seed, I'm like, what I'm what am I consuming? Yes, you know. Yeah. Whether it's the word or whether it's, you know, TV or music.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Yeah. And this is a it's absolutely right. And also a principle that can be taken into other areas. Where do we invest our time? Where do we invest our money? What do we invest into our relationships? Are we being intentional with what we've been given? And where are we putting it? Yeah. Because money is always a great example, right? It's a currency. Money is not good or evil, it's a tool. The love of money is the root of all evil. So the same $5 bill can be used to buy something. Maybe $5 is not an appropriate analogy anymore. The same $20 can be used to buy somebody food, or it can be used to go buy alcohol, or it can be used to be doing all manner of evil, right? So where we sow the seed matters.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

I'm also looking at it though, from like less about me being the farmer and me being the soil.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Okay, that's good too.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So, what am I, once again, going back to what am I letting in? What's taking root inside of me? Yeah. You know, both good and bad.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Multiple layers to this. Yeah. And and really good to have a full understanding. And so what you're doing is I'm looking at it from the sower side, you're looking at it from the soil side. Both are important to be able to recognize. Okay. So Jesus says here, then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, which is what you're speaking to, and does not understand it, then the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. All right, so we wrote down the four different soils. So we know the path is the place where the word is spoken, the evil one comes and snatches it away. And so that is the initial point of this. In the initial thing, he says that some fell along the path, the birds came and devoured it. So that's representative of the gospel being preached. It's not understood, and the devil comes and he snatches it away, and therefore it can't bear any fruit. The seed never went into the soil, and so it never produced any life. For what was sown on the rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word, immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but he endures for a while. But when the tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. So in the parable, the sun comes, it beats down on that which has grown, but it just didn't have the depth to be able to grow into it. Once again, withers, dies, doesn't produce any fruit. And he specifically speaks to tribulation and persecution. Good to take note of. As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word and it proves unfruitful. All right, so something stands out to me in that. I want to hear if you have any thoughts on verse 22. It's sown among the thorns, and it's the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word and it proves unfruitful.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, I mean this is the first thing I say, I was like, this is what we all struggle with in 2026. It's like the cares of this world are are choking us out spiritually. Um and we've talked about focus before, you know, where where our focus goes, our faith goes. Are the thorns I guess are are the thorns I know that's where it's tough to do this in real time. Like I'm just trying to be candid here without trying to seem refined or polished and what I'm saying. Um the seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God's word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and a lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

I mean, I think once again, it's where is our focus oriented towards? And if it's focused on this world, it's like I don't know. See, this and this, I think this will relate to some people that are they're listening to me in real time trying to trying to uh munch on this. It's like very often my spirit will understand something that I can't articulate consciously.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yeah, you know, I like that though, because there it's this invitation into there's more behind this, yeah, and this is always the jump-off point. Do I go deeper or do I just walk away frustrated? Yeah, and in which point you're actually indicating what kind of soil you are, yeah, right? So the thing that's notable to me in this, because he's drawing four different contrasts, right? Four different options here. And so it doesn't say that the thorns are the devil trying to choke out the life. It specifically says in this that it's the cares of this world and it's the things that allure us because we want to go after other options. And so what stands out to me quickly, and like I always say, you could read this passage and have something stand out different every time, but it's not necessarily the assignment of the enemy that is always there to take us out. And we can't be too quick to be like, oh, well, the devil is what choked out my desires for God. It's like, no, it's the world and it's this place inside of me that if I have a deficit, if my soil is filled with other things, thorns, roots, weeds, all these other things, that I am going to keep going after the things that I feel like should produce life in me. But those other things that I allow to stay there, the other pursuits, the other desires, they're ultimately going to be the things that choke out my relationship with God. That can be my desire for greater wealth that becomes my be-all and end-all. It could be my desire for notoriety and for fame. That can be the thing that then chokes out my relationship with God. It could be the relationship. This is the person I want to be with, and yet they're not walking with the Lord. I'm talking outside of marriage, just for this context. And I just want to be with them, and then they start to pull you off in different ways. Those are the thorns that choke it out. It's not the enemy necessarily sitting there just trying to constrict. He's the one that steals the word immediately. But when you receive the word, you have the ability to allow it to produce life in you if you continue to invest in it. But if you allow these other things to stay present, they're gonna choke it out. And that's why we're constantly recognizing the need to weed out those other places. And not just from a, and we've said this before, behavior modification standpoint, but from an understanding of why does this yearning, this desire for um, why does this desire for whatever it is, whether it's more money, more notoriety, more comfort, more um acceptance, why do these things keep coming up in such a big way? Yeah, because what we want to see is that God gives us the ability to to remove that. So I don't I don't want to go too because it's hard for me to read a passage like this without starting to think about how I would preach a message out of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Well, I think I think this is good though, because and I want to leave these pauses in and where I'm like, because I think this is like actually this parable or this passage coming to life in in this moment. It's like it's almost feels like the devil snatching up the word as we're talking about it. Because I in in you're talking, I'm trying to think about it, and then I feel stupid because I can't articulate my answer to the question. And I I I've gotten there where I like get frustrated with the scripture or I can't articulate what my spirit's understanding. And I'm sure someone listening to this can relate. Yeah. Um and I think, I think too, it's like this coming to life right now is like you said, it's not just demons or the devil, it's the world, yeah. Also our flesh.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Um, and there's some level of discernment, it sounds like that needs to be had here to figure out what is the status of our soil. Yeah. Like which which path are we on? Yeah. What is the quality of our own soil?

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Like they take soil samples, right? When they're going out to build, it's like, let's take a soil sample and see what we're dealing with before we do the work.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

And we talked about this in a previous episode, too, is like kind of that spiritual audit. So this sounds like here, this is a good point, this is a good time to reflect on your life, where you're at currently, habitual sin, what influences are around you, people, environments, job, um, is there spiritual warfare happening? Um, so yeah, take good. Let's go but let's go back to where we were um a moment ago. It's so weird. Like, I'm I'm usually normally very articulate, and like in this moment, I'm like thinking, like, I can't even I can't even get my thoughts straight.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

So, what's what what's the pressure when it comes to the word of God that we feel like we have to be an expert immediately? Like, what is it about? Because we have such a desire in our relationship with God. Like, if you're sitting down and you're studying the word of God, obviously you have a hunger, you have a desire for more, you have a desire to have greater depth. And you've been told that the word is this tool that you're supposed to have that is the living word of God. But people spend their entirety of their lives devoted to understanding the word. And we think sometimes that the first time that we read it, we're supposed to get every element of it. Like this is where the Holy Spirit comes in. Holy Spirit, I don't know everything that you're saying here. Reveal it to me. Yeah, I'm asking for more. And if I feel the pressure to have to figure it out, that doesn't seem like it's coming from you. Yeah, that doesn't seem like that's a godly desire emotion to go along with this desire. So, what's going on here? And it's just that that rest and that reset.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

I think I have to remind myself too, I'm not a pastor, you know, because it's you're a pastor for a long time now and well studied and put a lot of sermons together. Um, and I know someone else that might be listening to this. Well, Pastor Sam sounds really articulate and can communicate these points really well faster than I can understand them, you know. Um, that's okay, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:40

It's like okay that we're not it's more, it's more than okay, and it's important for me when we sit down and we do a cohort or something like that. I'm like, this is just my literal life's devotion. So I I I have spent a lot of time in these passages, but more than any of that, right? Pastor, no pastor, you could be a grandmother who's just reading the word, you could be somebody who um, you know, works nine to five and just spends time doing this. It the biggest thing is the development of the trust in the Holy Spirit to speak, and that's where the pressure just has to come off of it. And and I can feel the pressure as much as anybody else when I'm preparing a message to have to speak to however many people on a regular basis. I get to do this. Again, the posture. God, thank you for your word. I get to do this thing, reveal this to me. And there are times, I mean, there are passages that, and maybe we'll talk about them in the future. I read them and I walk away and I'm like, wait a second. I there's one thing that Paul says, and he talks about having to take the the wounds, having to bear the suffering of Christ to basically, he almost uses the words to supplement what Jesus has done. And I'm like, wait a second, Paul. You're not Jesus, you're not supplementing anything. But then we go into the understanding of what he's talking about in the earthly sense until Jesus returns. When somebody comes to me with a question and they're like, okay, so why did God tell the Israelites to kill all of the men, the women, the children, the cattle? And I'm like, this is a deep conversation. I don't have an answer for you. And as I read it in my flesh, I can be like, oh, that's that's heavy, that's hard. I'm saying all this to say, no matter where we are, the the birds will come quickly to eat the seed, the thorns will come to choke it out. There needs to be a perseverance in this discipline of going into the word and trusting that God's leading us in it. And I think that we're seeing it in real time, which is just which is beautiful. But the fact that you, you're at home, you're reading this, you're taking the time to to spend in the word of God, uh, amidst maybe some of the frustration and that kind of stuff, yeah, is just so good. And for me, God is like uh I feel that he's being honored in our pursuit of reading his word, even when we don't do it perfectly. Amen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

So so let's let's regroup then. Let's go, let's go back. We were we were we were in verse 22. Correct. The seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God's word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and the lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced. What does stand out to me about this is like there's a possibility of fruit or no fruit. Yeah, right? This is like reaping what you sow, yeah, uh spiritual truth that we see throughout scripture.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Yeah. And I think if I'm correct in this, because I am not a uh biologist or a horticulturist, I don't even know if that's a word. I think that as a plant grows, like it doesn't produce fruit immediately, that there has to be a maturity in it, which means that it doesn't just grow for a little bit and all of a sudden it's producing cherries, it's producing, or like there has to be a growth and a maturity. So there needs to be that season of the roots going down into it, then producing the fruit. And so if it gets choked, if the birds come and eat the seed before it has any roots, obviously not gonna produce fruit. If the thorns come out and choke it out very quickly, not gonna produce fruit. If the if the uh roots go down a little bit and the sun comes, persecution comes, and it dies, not gonna bear fruit. But the one who uh the good soil is the one who hears the word and understands it, he indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another case sixty, in another thirty. The thing about this verse that stands out to me very significantly is the word understand. So it says, he, it doesn't say he, the one who hears the word and then tries really hard to do it, is the one who bears fruit. That's how we would understand it. Somebody's given us instruction, like it's a job, go do this thing, and we do it as hard as we can and as good as we can. That's the one who's gonna produce fruit. That's not necessarily true in the kingdom. The Pharisees were doing a really good job of hearing what they felt was truth, and it was, it was the word of God, and then they were doing it in their own flesh.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons?

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Yeah, yes, and depart from me. I never knew you. So this is now okay. What does this word understand mean? Does it say understand in your translation, just out of curiosity? It does, yeah. Okay. So um, what I would do in this case is I would go maybe to a parallel Bible and I would look at how many different ways that this word could be um communicated. But here I'm in Logos Bible Software, and this word understands, looks like it may be pronounced Cineiemi, and it means to realize to the point of insight. It means having a capacity to understand. And so for me, what this begins to paint the picture of a capacity to understand is not an incredible amount of willpower. Once again, this is kind of what we do in Christianity often. Let me do it to the best of my ability. A capacity to understand to me is a yieldedness. Uh, what would be a non-Christian way to say yieldedness? A submission, a openness, openness, a trust to God's ability to fill a place that I've made space for. So to have good soil, the requirement is to understand. To understand in the Greek means to have a capacity to understand.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

So would this be like a revelation?

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Like, like basically if you're understanding, you kind of have a revelation of well, yes, because if you have the capacity to understand, you're making room for the Holy Spirit to bring his truth. Now I'm going to take you even deeper because this is we're going deeper, this word understand. So, where else do we see this word understand? Okay, so Romans chapter 3, verse 11. Paul says these words no one understands. No one seeks for God. This is the reality of what they're seeing in that place. Like they're they're not making room, they're not creating a space for God to be able to speak. Um, and so what we have to see is on our own, in our flesh, we can only know in part and see in part. Our soil can only be as good as our ability to go beyond our natural understanding and to step into faith into what God has given us. Our soil can only be fertile if we are making room for God to come in. And um, in the Old Testament, I forget which passage, it says to break up the fallow ground, to break up the crust, the hard crust on the ground, to cultivate it, to allow God to break down the places in us where we have trusted in our own belief systems to create space now for the seed to go into the ground, to die, and to then to produce life in us. So understanding to me comes from uh a trust and a reliance on the Holy Spirit. Um, do you see why these can these studies can get so deep?

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Yeah, and and because it and then it put like this whole parable idea is like it points to the fact that when we are discipling and evangelizing, it's to model this too, is to find relatable allegory, relatable analogy, relatable metaphor that could speak to the individual. I mean, even this is relatable. I was just um uh reseeding my lawn, uh the grass, right? And you had to put new soil down. Yeah, and not only did you have to put new soil down, but like when you put the seed down, now you're putting, I think it was I don't know if it's called sea moss or moss. Sometimes you put hay to protect it from the birds coming. Yeah, but like my mind goes there. And then I'm like, okay, well, how do I? How do we protect ourselves?

SPEAKER_03 44:01

You know, and like it begins to open up these lines of well, I tried to put down soil last year, and on some, I did a really good job of raking it up so that there was something to receive it. And on the other ones, I'm like, hopefully, if I throw this seed out there, it's gonna work. And obviously, the one that I just threw out there didn't work. So then, in all of this, Jesus speaking to these people, he says, Many of them are not gonna understand. Many of them are not going to be able to get it. Who is the one who was guaranteed, guaranteed? Because there's a little caveat to this, who are the ones that were guaranteed to you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven? It was believers, the disciples, those who are walking with him, and yet Judas is present amongst these, right? But they were given the access to have the capacity to understand why.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

So did he did he understand and reject?

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Yeah, well, let's let's get to him in one second because I think that's a really good question. But in walking with Jesus, it created the capacity. So intimacy with Jesus expands your correct capacity, proximity to the king is what expands our ability to walk in an understanding and a revelation, and then to be able to do something with it. Okay, so Judas, that would be a whole nother study. But yes, he had the capacity to understand, but on some level, he didn't deal with his thorns, he didn't deal with the places in his life. Whatever the deficit was in Judas that he needed that created an opening for Satan to come in and to fill him to be the son of the devil, which Jesus says, You guys are with me, and one of you is a devil. Yeah, so he's talking about Judas. Um, he didn't deal with the the soil of his life. Um, Peter is still working out the soil of his life when Jesus goes to the cross, obviously, as he's denying him, because he's one that persecution comes and he's he's running away, like the sun's scorching him in that moment. John is present with him even at the cross. And so he's got good soil. He's the most intimate, but it says that they all run away basically. And even after he raises from the dead, there Thomas is like, hey, I'm not gonna believe it unless I see the holes. So this is a process in them which should be encouraging to us as well. We don't necessarily have the perfect soil on day one unless we're willing to work it, unless we're willing to cultivate it, unless we're allowing the Holy Spirit to come in to get rid of the rocks, to get rid of the thorns, to break up the hardened places. And then as we are going to the word, it's watering the soil. It's giving the nutrients that we need. It is the seed to come in and to produce life in us.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

So, how much is this like a practical process for us? Because I I always go back and forth on this. I always think like, well, who the sun says free is free indeed. I give my life to Jesus, I'm a new creation. But then it also, these parables point to an ongoing process of renewal of the mind, transformation, transformation. Um, if you could explain this, like I was five, right? Yeah, sum this parable up. Yeah, can you can you do that for forget about the listener? Me, Anthony, Anthony Sereno. Can you can you can you describe this to me and explain it in a way um like in a way that applies to like real life today?

SPEAKER_03 47:24

Yes, you're not responsible to make the seed produce the fruit. You're not responsible to make it grow. You're responsible to receive what he is saying to you as truth and to attach your faith to it. Capacity, I love this word because the Bible says we've all been given a measure of faith. Faith is what we need to understand what we're reading and to grab a hold of it and to allow the truth of it to produce life in us. So we're all given a measure of faith. I I believe that we all are given faith because of that at the moment of salvation, but the capacity for our faith is how we steward what he says to us. It's how obedient are we with what he gives us. It's are we willing to trust in the moments where he's given us seed, maybe he's given us a word and says, This is what I'm gonna do with your life. And you've got a few options. That'll never happen. I'm I'm messed up. Look at me. I'll this will never happen. Okay. Seed gets stolen immediately. I I believe what I want to believe what he's saying. I have an excitement about it. This is this is amazing that I could actually be one that um that does something for God. But then our eyes go back to those challenges again, to those places of of what I'm not and what I don't have. And eventually I start to give up on the truth of God because circumstances seem to say otherwise. Or, yes, this is great, but I really I think what I need is is more notoriety. I need more of the money, I need more of whatever it is, and that thing gets choked out. Or, God, you've spoken a word over my life. I may not know what it is in every detail, but I'm choosing to trust that what you said is true. And so even when circumstances in my life seem to indicate something different, I'm still gonna choose to trust. I'm still putting my faith in what you've said. That's allowing those roots to go down deep to start to pull from the nutrients. I'm gonna feed it. My wife and my wife loves plants, and we plant these plants sometimes. And some days, sometimes they do really well and sometimes they don't. And we go back to the the uh the farmer, the grower, and they're like, Well, did you feed it? And we're like, Well, we watered it, and he's like, Yeah, but do you need food and water? And we're like, Yeah. He's like, Well, give it some some nutrients, give it something to help it grow. Okay, so God said it's true. I'm gonna keep feeding that thing, and it is going to grow. He who has started a good work in you is faithful to bring it to its completion. So, who makes it grow? Paul says, uh, Apollos may plant it, I may water it, I may have that backwards, but God causes it to grow. So if we take the responsibility of receiving the seed, making the seed grow, watering and doing all those things, we're gonna go into self-effort. We're gonna go into places where we feel like I have to do it. And God's saying, I'm the one who's going to do it, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

You know, when we go through this and we talk about the three layers, the only thing that comes to mind mainly is that it feels like there's infinitely more layers we could go into this and into every passage, right? Not the only thing that comes to mind, but every time, yeah, every time you ask me a question, it then sparks a new question in my mind. Um for people just starting to actually take studying the Bible um seriously, what would you say is a practical step to increasing their capacity through proximity? I'll I'll tell you my my the thing that comes to mind first, and then I would love to hear your answer here. But I realize that proximity to Jesus comes with proximity to the word, proximity to church, proximity to your men's group or your women's group. Um, because I found that the more I'm in proximity to this, whether it's through talking about it on this podcast or being part of the men's cohort or even making sure I'm showing up at church once or twice a week, that has built that proximity or it's gotten me in proximity, it's built intimacy, which has increased my capacity. Yeah. So what would you say? What's a what's a practical way to to one get in proximity to Jesus and two ultimately increase that capacity?

SPEAKER_03 52:11

It's in these moments where I often think the answers are not complex, but there are many things that fight against the simplicity of it. Worship in the word are really so valuable. And once again, I've grown up with this my whole life. So for me to worship, thankfully, is very natural. It may not be for everybody else, but take the time to put your eyes on who he is and how good he is. Go to the book of Psalms, read the words of David, read the words of Moses, read the words of Asaph, read the beautiful expression of worship. And even if you don't know how to worship on your own, just read the words out loud. Worship puts our eyes on him, which takes our eyes off of us. And then go to the word even deeper and just see the words of Jesus, read them, allow the word to do what it's meant to do. It's not like a formula, it's not some kind of exercise, it's just allowing the word of God to speak to you. If you take your eyes off of yourself long enough, you're gonna see him and you're gonna yearn for those moments where you can come back into his presence. You're gonna start to have a hunger for it because you're gonna realize when I'm away from him, I feel a certain way. But when I come back to him, it's like I want to live in this place because he's just so good. And so taste and see that the Lord is good, give him that time and and trust. And that's that's what I can say because I know he's gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Do you think do you think when we're doing this sort of thing, like even when we're doing a podcast, there's like spiritual warfare happening? Do you think there's actual Oh, there has to be. Like, do you think there's a spirit of confusion? There's a spirit of you know what I mean? Because that's what I feel. Like, like I mentioned earlier in the episode, is like there's something almost blocking my thought process of being able to articulate what it is that I'm understanding. And in in the second follow-up question to that is one of the things I've prayed before is to like bind and silence any spiritual influence or voice that's do you think that there's utility to that? And once again, I know we could do a whole podcast episode on spiritual warfare, but do you think that's ever needed? Like, do we need to incorporate that those sort of prayers?

SPEAKER_03 54:34

Or is that I think there is definitely there can be a benefit to it if the Holy Spirit leads us in that direction. Yeah, once again, I don't want to be going and looking for things that may or may not be there. I want to put my attention on God. But if the Holy Spirit is revealing, or if you do sense every time I sit down to read the word, all of a sudden I start to feel this heaviness, this anxiety, this fear, whatever it is. Yeah, in the name of Jesus, whatever spirit is causing this confusion, causing this stress, causing this place of anxiety, I speak to you in the name of Jesus and I tell you to go. Like to have that authority, and it can just be that simple and that quick, but to take authority over it, yeah, absolutely. Be sensitive, but allow the Holy Spirit to direct you. Because yeah, the devil doesn't want us to read in the Bible, he doesn't want us to go into the word. It exposes him.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

And so it would be foolish for him to be like, Oh, yeah, let's let's let you read and and expose my schemes and my my ways of going about taking you out. So, yeah, of course, there would be those places where he wouldn't want this to happen.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Okay, good, good, good, you know, because I I know it's not just me, you know, and I I I I run into this a lot where I'm where I'm trying to study something, I feel so focused at first. I feel and then all of a sudden it feels like there's like something external. It's like this this cloud of confusion, this cloud of chaos, which I very I know now could be something spiritual. So I'm glad you confirmed that we can pray against those things. Um by the way, anybody listening, if you if you love the way Pastor Sam is uh presenting this, um, it's like this every Sunday, some Wednesdays. I don't know the Wednesday services are gonna go away at the gathering, but um, we would love to see you there if you're local, right? To to the Hudson Valley here, where specifically the gatherings in Poughkeepsie, New York. Um, and whether it's the gathering and you're close by or it's your own church, like get involved. Like absolutely we're talking about proximity, like taking your faith seriously means it showing up in your action and in your behaviors and in your involvement with your church community. Yeah, right. So uh thank you for this. Uh any any closing thoughts on on the parable of the sower or Bible study in general before we uh pray out of here?

SPEAKER_03 56:41

Yeah, I just want to encourage everybody who is listening that if you allow the word to get in you, it is going to produce fruit. And if I can encourage you to start today in one of two places, start in John 17, read the high priestly prayer that Jesus prays so you can see his heart for you, and just read the story of his passion, his love for you, the crucifixion, his death, and giving himself for you because it is the fullness of the gospel contained in the life of Jesus that brings transformation. And that's what we want more than anything else.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Absolutely. All right, Sam, pray us out of here. Pray for some clarity. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

Lord Jesus, I thank you for your word. I thank you for the ability that we have to invest in and to be poured into by your word. Holy Spirit, speak to us, bring revelation, bring clarity. I come against any anxiety, any fear, any oppression of the enemy that would want to come to steal, to kill, and to destroy when you are speaking to us, Lord God. So we thank you by the blood of Jesus and by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, the same power that rose Christ Jesus from the dead that lives within us, that we would walk in the fulfillment, the fulfillment of your promises and your word in our lives. In Jesus' holy name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Amen.