How Satan Deceives Through Distortion and Confusion

In this episode of The Fifth Gospel, Anthony Serino and Pastor Sam Edwards unpack one of Satan's primary strategies: distortion.

From Genesis 3 to modern culture, they explore how the enemy imitates God's design, twists truth, and creates confusion around identity, purpose, marriage, and morality. Through the lens of Scripture, they discuss why God's nature brings clarity while Satan's influence produces deception, compromise, and disorder.

Topics include:

• Satan's strategy of distortion and deception
 • "Did God really say?" and the lie from Genesis 3
 • Identity in Christ versus cultural identity
 • Truth and compassion in difficult conversations
 • Spiritual warfare and discernment
 • Shame, condemnation, and new creation identity
 • Marriage as a picture of Christ and the Church
 • Distraction, compromise, and purpose
 • The role of Scripture and the Holy Spirit in discovering truth
 • Why clarity always comes from God

If you've ever struggled with confusion, compromise, identity questions, or discerning truth in today's culture, this conversation offers practical biblical wisdom for standing firm in God's Word.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

How do you think stay and see good?

SPEAKER_00 0:02

So the devil doesn't want someone just to live in sin. He wants them to grab a hold of that sin and to champion it.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

It sounds like the devil's a really good party pointer because he's great at getting people to celebrate extreme areas of delusion.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We have all made mistakes. We have all made poor decisions. The grace of God is sufficient for any decision we've ever made.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

So when we say in Jesus' name, our life has to match up with that in order to be that conduit in the spiritual and physical realm and have that dominion. Dude, it's a bad day for the devil. I think anytime we do this podcast specifically, it's a bad day because uh for him, because uh what we're sharing with our listeners is is critical. You know, I say this kind of half jokingly, but um the message behind the fifth gospel here has been that we take this seriously. Yeah, and one of the things that we have to really take seriously is uh investigating what's true and what's not, and the devil is a liar. I think a lot of people think uh the devil is the opposite of God, he's not the opposite of God, created being. He's a created being and he's trying to imitate God, yeah. And so he does that through deception. He perverts things, he perverts truth, um, he gives alternatives that might seem good in real time uh but have dire consequences.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

So today we're gonna talk about some of that confusion, and my hope is that not me, but you can give the listener some clarity on uh on where to go next. Like I like to focus on what are the next 24 hours for a disciple. Okay. You know, what what are those uh I use the phrase minimal optimal next steps. And minimal sounds like a bad word, but what is that, what is that one thing that if I just do this right now, it's gonna have the biggest impact on my faith, on the people around me, um, and it can allow me to continue in that walk uh effectively. So, what comes to your mind when we talk about the devil deceiving and being an imitation of God or trying to imitate God? Where does your mind go first?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So uh John chapter 8, verse 44. Jesus says that the people he's speaking to, the religious leaders, that they are of their father, the devil, and their will is to do their father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, he does not stand in truth because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies, which is such a clear statement that Jesus makes in that moment, but we don't always recognize it. And so, as I was looking at this verse, it was actually in preparation for a message I was gonna bring to the youth group at our church. And I was not expecting to preach that night, but I was like, what am I gonna speak about? And so, as I often do, I stopped and I just prayed. I'm like, God, what do you want me to share to these young people? And this is not a topic that normally comes up for me, but it was speak to them about who Satan is, give them some clarity on who Satan actually is and how he operates. And so, as I started to think about this and what I wanted to share about Satan, it's that Satan brings distortion, he brings a sense of confusion, and he takes, as you said, he tries to be like God, but he manipulates truth to try to get us to accept it as our own truth. And so sometimes we overcomplicate our walk with God because we have so many thoughts and so many, uh, I would say, just ways of thinking about things that are distorted because we've been influenced by the enemy and we don't even realize it. And so, what I started by talking about to these young people is that God is a God of clarity. And the most simple way to see this is to go to the very beginning in the book of Genesis. Genesis chapter one, it says that God creates the heavens and the earth. And all we see is that constantly he's bringing something that is one way and it's contrasting with something else. So if we go to Genesis chapter one, we know the beginning very well. In the beginning, God creates the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. So this is a place where there is chaos, there is darkness, there is movement, but there is no life at this moment. And God speaks, and immediately we see that he brings clarity to a universe that is without form and void. And he says that there was no light, and he says, Let there be light. And so the first thing that God brings distinction to is that where there was darkness, there's now light. There's a contrast between the two: light and dark. And this is before the sun and the moon. This is before anything else. Let there be light and there was light. And God saw the light, was good. And so not only does he bring distinction between light and darkness, but he calls one of them good. So if one of them is good, it means that the other, the darkness, is at the very least not good. So it says he creates the heavens and the earth, light and darkness, morning and evening. And then we go to verse six, and he says that there is going to be a separation between the waters from the waters. He goes on to say that he separates the earth from the seas. And as we continue down, all we see is that God is bringing clarity and he's bringing definitive uh examples of this is one way and this is the other. He gets down to verse 27, and it says that God created man in his own image, in the likeness of God, he created them, male and female, he creates them. Once again, clear distinction, male and female. And so when I was preaching this message with the youth group, I brought up two individuals. I brought up a girl and I brought up a boy. And I was like, guys, can you see the difference here? There is clear contrast between these two genders, which of course is really important right now when we look at the world and it's like, well, what is a woman? What is a man? What's that dividing line? If I feel like a woman, if I feel like a man, if I feel like this is true, then that's the truth. But that's not the way that God lays it out. He says, this is one thing and this is the other. Light, dark, land, sea, male, female. So God is very clear. And I went through this list, and there is a definitive list of like 20 different things that God says this was chaos and now there's order. There was formless and now there's formed. There was the sun and the moon, all of these different things. But then we get down to Genesis chapter three.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Can I pause for a second? Because I because you mentioned something. We have we have a video queued up too about this. You mentioned male and male and female. Yeah. And uh I know you and I send these videos back and forth, especially I love this guy, Congressman uh Brandon Gill. Gill? Jill? Gill, right? Yeah. Gill, I should know that. Um he talks about this. And I'm can we play that video and then we'll respond to it.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

It's an astounding thing to not have an opinion on. Um I think most normal people have an opinion on that. Do you think that men should be allowed in women's locker rooms? Um, sir, those uh regulations are set by people minority or no do you think men should be allowed in women's locker rooms? I I don't have a personal opinion. You don't have a person you have a personal opinion on a lot of things, but not on that. Sure. I mean it's it's a locker room is not really an area where people in around. So the answer is yes. I don't think men should be allowed to showers with women in public facilities. I think that showering is a private activity, and uh um it should be private, and it should be private. There's oftentimes communal showers. Are you okay with men showering with women? I I don't have an opinion on that in the context of the US. No, interesting. That's a that's an astounding thing to not have an opinion.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

You know what the first thing that stands out is that we see in scripture there's no gray area, there's truth. Yeah, that's it. There's light and then there's darkness. Yeah, and what these people do is they try to operate in a gray area that does not exist. And then when they're confronted with objective truth, yeah, they can't handle it. They don't have a rebuttal. They there's there's no way to articulate a defense against that.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

So I I mean, to me, that whole that that whole conversation uh it boggles my mind. Uh but what do you what do you what's your take on it?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

I mean, so in that answer, and I love how he does this, and if you go to his his page, you can see multiple conversations where it's like, what do you think about this? They will never give an answer. Because if they give an answer, then they are at risk of offending somebody. And what is the mortal sin of anybody who is a liberal or a progressive not being inclusive enough? If somebody is left out, if somebody is not included in their philosophy and their thought process in terms of what is right and wrong, well then now they've offended somebody and now they have to find a way to bring them back in. And so they intentionally keep their answers very vague. There's no definitive uh answers, because if they do that, then then they're drawing a line here, and there can't be any lines drawn. And that to me points back to the enemy because that's how he operates. So Genesis 3, we have this another clear example of this and how the enemy operates. So God said there's two trees in the garden amongst many, but there are two, one being the tree of life, and the other one the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And God is very clear, there is no ambiguity to it. He says, Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you do, you will die.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

So, so how do we balance though, like compassion and correction? You know, because when I think about some of my closest friends who I grew up with who are bleeding heart liberals, let's say, I what I have found to be true, and I've even dealing with clients with this, is a lot of times they've become angry advocates. And it's it tends to be because they've dealt with a lot of adversity, big T trauma, you know, when they're children, and now they become adults and they want to fight everybody's fight. Everybody has a fight that then they have to fight for. And I have some compassion for those people, but at the same time, I know that it needs correction. So, you know what I mean? Like, how do we balance like having like for that guy who's who's testifying in front of Congress? Obviously, we need to correct that, but there's a reason why if we like kind of double-click into their modes and beliefs, I mean, they're not they're just humans, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

So, but in that case, I mean, all right, two two different conversations. That guy is waving the banner and raising the flag for whatever his agenda is. The reason he's there testifying is because he represents something that generally has money attached to it, that has a whole ideology attached to it, and maybe it started in a good place. But I have a really difficult time thinking that most people, I mean, Brandon Gill asked the other lady, you know, about abortion. When does life begin? When is it too late? They can't have an answer for it because they've gone into such a place of delusion where there never is a definitive line anymore. Now, if your friend or the people that you're counseling, they've got an issue and it comes from their own trauma. We should always have grace and compassion, but the truth is still the truth, and the truth doesn't care about your feelings. And so if we are so concerned about not offending, then we will allow people to go down the road into greater delusion, which is going to do two things. One, and the most grave thing, it's gonna keep them separated from the truth of who God is, which means that they don't have the ability to receive a savior, because Jesus said, I am the only way, truth, and life. He's very definitive again. And I do want to talk about a couple of verses where he's very clear, this is the way forward. But Jesus, when he came to individuals who were hurting, he didn't lower the standard of truth, but he spoke to their true identity. He spoke beyond the hurt, beyond the pain. The woman at the well, he said, Where is your husband? She said, I don't have a husband. He said, You're right, because you've had multiple and you're living with another man right now. He speaks truth to her, but then he brings compassion. He invites her into something better. And so we have to be able to do both here. We have to be able to speak truth and walk in compassion. But we have to understand where the confusion comes from. This culture that we live in, this ideology of everything goes, whatever feels good, it comes from this statement that the enemy makes. So the woman comes to the tree, she's talking to the serpent. Why she's talking to the serpent when she's got the God of the universe who is present with them, I don't know. But the devil says to her, Did God really say? He brings a place of distortion, he blurs the lines of what God said. You're not gonna really die. Now the truth was she wasn't gonna drop dead the second that she ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but she was inviting sin in. She was inviting separation in that would lead to death. So what God said was true, but the enemy blurs the line and brings distortion. So she eats from the tree, Adam eats from the tree, sin is invited into the world. And now the enemy has taken that thing that was his doing. He led them into deception, but now he turns around as the accuser of the brethren, and now he points back to them and continually brings shame and condemnation.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

What's interesting is Satan obviously knows the truth too. Oh, yeah. I mean, he uses scripture against Jesus in the wilderness, which is which is quite interesting. Yeah. And then he distorts. So I just want to talk about the conversational thing real quick because I I think as Christians, we run into these conversations a lot with non-believers, especially. So how do you even have these conversations with someone who's just their their theology, their sociology is just so far off from truth?

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

And you want to balance it with compassion for the person in front of you. Obviously, this guy who has an agenda. I'm not going to be compassionate for that guy there necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

As a person, yes, as a person. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

So how do you even have those conversations? How do you expose the truth? Like when I think about uh how Jesus operated, we had mentioned this uh story recently uh where the woman was healed after 12 years of bleeding. He doesn't just heal her because he touched her or because she touched the hem of his garment, he then exposes her as it's who touched me. He knew who who touched him. But exposing her also made her address the uncleanliness that she perceived in her identity and who she was.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, it was full restoration.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Full restoration. So, how do we lead somebody to that moment, that aha moment, let's say? Um, even if it's not the full come to Jesus moment, it's like, oh, maybe maybe there is something to this.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

So we got to recognize the tendency that's that's in play here. And this is again why it's so important to talk about how the enemy operates, because he wants us to be concentrated on the external or the issues at the furthest extent to try and distract us away from the root cause. So any conversation that's had around these things, let's say it's abortion, for instance, we're not talking about the fact that the majority of abortions come from individuals who find it inconvenient to have a baby at that time. We go to the far reaches of, well, what about rape? What about incest? What about extreme poverty? We look at these situations and we're like, well, that's the thing we have to focus on. We have to protect the smallest minority here, and we have to ignore the entirety of what's happening in our nation and around the world. And so we've got to get back to the conversation about what's really at play here. And so let's go back to the garden. There was something that the enemy was able to manipulate. There was something that he was able to take advantage of in Eve. For me, it looks like that there was a deficit. There was something in her where she felt like, I need something more. What I have in my relationship with God right now is not enough, which is crazy. She's in perfection, but there's something that we can relate to in that. We can have this relationship with God and we could still be desiring other things. And so, once again, she's taking time to speak to the serpent. She's taking time to uh to spend away from God to have conversations she shouldn't be having. And then he exploits that. And so we need to find the deficit in our own lives and in the lives of somebody else. But let's let's start with us. What is the deficit? What is the thing that I am trying to fill by going to these other things? What's the place in me that feels like I'm not enough or I don't have enough? That's the place that we need to start. Because in any of these arguments, in any of these conversations, it all stems from a misunderstanding of who God really is. The enemy will always try to distort the picture of who God is. He doesn't just say, Did God really say? When we go back to that, it says that the serpent said that you will not surely die in Genesis 3, verse 5. For God knows that when you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. He basically says to her, God is holding something back from you. God is not the good father that you think he is. God is not the loving one who wants to provide for you. He's actually keeping this back from you because he knows that if you do this, you're going to be like him. Now, this stems from the enemy, from Satan, from Lucifer, who was a worship leader in heaven, worshiping God. And yet it says that he had his eyes on the throne. It wasn't enough to be anointed and to be placed in a position of great influence to be able to lead worship before God. There was something that he didn't feel that he had enough of. And so that's where he brings us to. Misery loves company. This is what the enemy wants to do. He wants us to see God the way that he sees God. And so, in our own personal lives and in the lives of others, we've got to see where the lie about God came in. Why do we not see God for who he truly is as a loving father? What are the experiences that we've had? And I know this is there's a lot at play here when we're talking about abortion, when we're talking about gender ideology, when we're talking about things about life and when life begins and all these different things, but I want to say that they all come back to having the proper view of who God is. Do we trust him or do we not?

SPEAKER_02 18:57

How do you think Satan sees God? You said he has an opinion or a view of God.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

How do you think this exposed the way he sees God? He's keeping something from you. Lucifer, in his majesty and splendor, beauty, right? The Bible actually says that he is beautiful, that he had this incredible gift, he felt that God was holding something back from him pride. Self-righteousness is where this comes from.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Okay, so we have like these three big pillars, which is interesting because you look at politics for the longest time now, these three topics divide a nation. You know? Um what are they?

SPEAKER_00 19:38

They're sex or sexuality, sexual identity, it's life. Where does life begin? What does life look like? How do we protect it? And race. So what's the distinction in race and what does it look like to be a racist, to be one who oppresses others? These are the three things. And then I would say maybe as an umbrella, because it's always there, is money. But those three things are always in the forefront. They're always central to every uh political race, to every place of disagreement. It generally comes down to those three things.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Yeah, and it certainly, in my opinion, seems like the abortion one is is the most divisive right now. I mean, they're all divisive, don't get me wrong. But the one that they hang their hats on specifically is that one. Obviously, they have uh gender identity and sexuality and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Um but if you blur the lines in life, yeah, you can blur the lines in any other area.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Oh, of course, of course. So that's what I was gonna ask you is yeah, let's say I I have a friend who um believes in their right to have an abortion, you know, their body, their choice, as they like to say.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, separate body, separate DNA, yeah, separate, separate uh everything from the tissue, everything like that. One is dependent on the other. But this is once again, these lines have been blurred. If we were to really think about this conceptually, about this life being formed, and try to put a line on, they can't even say where is the the point where life begins. Maybe they would say when the baby is out of the womb, right? But I know somebody who was born at 16 weeks, and he is a healthy, strong individual right now. So that baby, or what they would call fetus at 16 weeks is not worth protecting. They can't bring a definition to when life begins. We have a definition when life begins, it's at the moment of conception. We have a definition of where identity and purpose comes in. Jeremiah 1:5. Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, I set you apart, I called you to this purpose. So before that moment of conception, there is purpose and there is life given to this body, then that now grows in the comfort and the safety of the woman and only a woman, which is crazy that we even have to define that now. But do we see how the enemy has smashed? And so successful in even distorting what life looks like. Like, I've seen the sonogram pictures of my children in my wife's womb. And you can clearly make out. I mean, at the beginning, let's be honest, it's kind of like, I don't know what's what. They're like, it's a boy. I'm like, okay, I don't, I don't know. But you can clearly start to make out. I have pictures of of them at 16 weeks or whatever it is. And you can clearly, you can look at them now and say, okay, yeah, I see who you are. But the enemy distorts the truth. Is that really a baby or is it a clump of cells? Is it really a baby or is it a fetus? And so now we've not, we're not even having the conversation about that. Now we're having the conversation about all of the secondary and the the farthest reaches of what this means. And now we've said, well, my body, my choice, you get to make that decision. But once again, no definition as to when that begins, when that ends, uh, when it becomes infanticide. I mean, isn't it true? And I I believe this is true. Tell me, you know, if if you know different, if somebody is a drunk driver and they crash into a car and they were to kill the mother and the child, it's manslaughter on both, or it becomes more than manslaughter. Double double homicide, right? So how is that homicide, but then an abortion isn't?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

And I you know, I don't want to beat a dead horse. I kind of do because the you know, these are the conversations I find difficult to get into because I feel like I can't articulate my point well enough. And I know there's a listener right now who's so I want you to talk to me. I'm I'm the woman who had an abortion, and I firmly believe my body, my choice, that was a better option in my mind than bringing a child into this broken world, and I didn't know if I could support it, and I didn't have I didn't have the money or the means to do so. What what is the actual conversation you have with me? Like if you were talking to me directly.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

I have another one that's even more inflammatory if we want to go down that road too.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Um so which is I'm just saying, someone, if I'm a w, if I'm a woman sit standing in front of a Christian, yeah, and I And as a pastor, I'm talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

You're you're going through this, you've been through there. First of all, I have very close relationships with multiple individuals who have had abortions. I know that they have, they've communicated it to me. And not for one second do I see them any different. Not for one second do I bring shame or condemnation to them in any way, shape, or form. Um, to me, this is a place where these decisions are not easy ones, and I don't want to make it sound like it's just this flippant thing where you go out and do this. Although you're just seeing so many who would celebrate it and turn it into that. But for the vast majority of women, I would say that's that's very likely not the case. Tough situation, pressure from a boyfriend, uh, not having any support, and even worse situations, rape going down that road. So, first of all, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We have all made mistakes. We have all made poor decisions. The grace of God is sufficient for any decision we've ever made.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

I don't think it's a mistake.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

But this is the thing, though, is that I do believe that deep down, everybody knows that this is wrong. It's just that because I don't want to face that it's wrong or that I did something wrong, it's much easier to accept the distortion that it wasn't wrong.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

So, what are you calling me? A murderer?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

I'm calling it in that case though, if you are not willing to look at the truth of it, there will not be any healing. And so in love and compassion, it's let's look at what Jesus did. He brought forgiveness, but also we have to be honest about what took place and come into a place of mourning and a place of being able to recognize the heaviness that surrounds this.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

But you're referring to the Bible, it's just like perpetu perpetuates patriarchy and like oppression of women.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

What about science? What about like we'll we'll stand on science until science doesn't actually then support my point of view? Um, science that says that it is a separate DNA, that they're able to feel pain at a very early point, that they're able to have sustained life past a very early point. Like I won't put numbers on it because I don't know the specifics and I want to speak accurately, but this is the science of all of these things. And I can almost guarantee that many of these individuals, if we're talking about a baby puppy or a baby kitten, like there's a lot more compassion that's put around them than there would be on a human life because we've so dehumanized the baby within the womb. And like I I want to be, I want to sound more compassionate in this. I truly do, because I never want to bring condemnation to somebody who is in pain or hurting. And yet we have to be bold enough to speak truth and to speak about the reality of what we're talking about here. Life is life. So then we shift down the other, the other road, which is well, then what are you doing in terms of adoption and fostering? And what are you gonna? And I think that's an absolutely valid conversation. If a baby is brought to term, is delivered, then what are the Christians doing in order to take care of these children if a mom is unable to care for that? That's a much more important conversation to have than the one that's, well, I don't really believe the Bible or I don't really believe that it's a baby. It doesn't actually matter because God says that it's life. And I know that in culture we've sort of shifted away from God being the authority, but it doesn't change that he's the authority. So, what are the other things going on internally that we need to bring healing to so that we could see God as a loving father, so that we can recognize who he really is, and then go into the place of healing and restoration, no matter what the sin was. For the murderer in prison who killed whoever, to the person who is living with the shame and the regret of a poor decision. Whoever that is, they need Jesus just as much as I need Jesus. The same amount. I don't look at myself as being better than anybody else. I am a sinner in need of a savior outside of Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yeah, we and we were talking about this in a few episodes ago. It's like I don't hate that sin any more than I hate my own sin. And I think, you know, there are a lot of Christians out there who are like all holier than thou and kind of walk around with their chef chest puffed out when about these topics specifically, and they're going home and you know, committing their own sin, all which we do routinely. You know, one of the things that it's this is kind of this is gonna sound a little fringe, but I don't think it is because I think we gotta fight these things in the spiritual realm as well. Um, one of the things I've done in these sort of conversations, because I do think there's spiritual um battles to be fought in real time, there's spirits, unclean spirits, the devil has his minions out there influencing the thoughts and the emotions of the person that we're talking to in real time. I'll just pray quietly to myself. Like I bind and silence any demonic influence voice or spirit. And it's sometimes people will go, they'll instantly stop talking, yeah, or they can't articulate themselves because I I firmly believe now that when I've prayed that in these difficult conversations, and they either stop talking or can't articulate themselves, they were being influenced by that demonic voice or spirit.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

And it gives you it gives you a little bit of leeway and it gives you a moment to actually speak to them, the the human part of them, their their conscious analytical thought, yeah, where it's not being influenced in real time.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

So you're just expressing that our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and rulers of darkness. And so, like, I'm speaking to you very clearly about what the truth is. If I'm speaking to somebody who disagrees with me, I'm gonna be much more tactful. I'm gonna be much more sensitive in how I'm having this conversation because my goal is not to be right, my goal is to be able to uh communicate in a way that allows them to receive the truth of what God is saying. And I just want to clarify that's my purpose in that.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Yeah, and I'm not saying I'm not saying like pray out loud in their face. Like I'm not saying like in my own mind, that's what I and it's amazing, it's amazing how well it's worked in.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

But that's a beautiful thing because what you're actually doing is now creating groundwork to be able to speak to them clearly. And so I think that these things they need to be done. Uh, the Bible says to be wise as serpents, but harmless as doves. I think that we need to be able to speak with love and clarity, not to be right and not to get our point across, but with the end game in mind, which is I want this person to know Jesus more at the end of this conversation. But I don't think that we can effectively do that unless we're firm on what the truth is. We can't compromise in the truth and then expect to bring hope to anybody because the truth is only found in Jesus. And so the enemy wins when we go into a place of compromise. And this is what he continually is trying to do distort, blur, bring places of confusion, so that we're more concerned with those things than we are about the fact that God is good, that he is the God who brings love and restoration through Jesus, and that's what we need to focus on. And so, what I what I've seen happen though, and I think this really ties into this, is that the devil is not satisfied in us compromising in our beliefs in a few areas. He's not con he's not he's not satisfied with us making a mistake once or twice. He wants us to go down that road to such an extent that we now start to celebrate evil. The Bible says that there will be times where they call evil good and good evil. So the devil doesn't want someone just to live in sin. He wants them to grab a hold of that sin and to champion it. He doesn't want them just to make a mistake occasionally and feel bad for it. He wants them to grab that thing and make it their identity. Because if it's their identity, what it does is then it ruins their purpose and their pursuit of God. I want to go down this other road that I think really ties into this. And it's because the enemy is not satisfied with us sinning once or twice, doing something wrong, and then feeling bad about it. He wants us to feel shame. Shame is good for him. Uh, condemnation, because that separates us from God. But he's not good with us just making the mistake. He wants us to take that mistake and to take such ownership of it that it becomes our identity. Because if we make a mistake, okay, well, I feel bad, I can ask for forgiveness. But if I do something wrong and now that becomes who I am, now that immediately shifts me from my identity and who God created me to be into a different identity that I've embraced to give me purpose. So this is the case with the LGBTQ agenda, which we would say that homosexuality is not a bigger sin than any other sin. Except that what often happens is that I embrace that lifestyle so much that now I champion it. I have to go and promote it. I have to go and and push it out there for the world to see. Pride month. Yeah. It's no longer that I've done something wrong. Now I've embraced this thing and I champion it. So now it's it's part of who I am. And I want to lead others in the same way. And so what the enemy sees in this is not just, oh, they've made a mistake, they've separated themselves from God. Good. No, now they've become this thing. And it doesn't have to be something so egregious. It can be our own thoughts in terms of who I am. I'm such a this, I'm such a failure, I'm such a person. I always um I always come up short in this area. I'm not good enough. We grab a hold of these identities and we make them our own. And in doing so, we separate ourselves from what God said, which is, I've created you in my image and my likeness. I've given you purpose and identity. And so we have to be very careful with the things that we take ownership of in our thoughts and in our words.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

So, what about the Christians who always say, Oh, I'm such a dirty, rotten sinner, I'm broken, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Even something that's nice, like a sinner saved by grace. I kind of take exception to that, even though I fully understand why it said a sinner saved by grace is a beautiful sentiment because on my own, without Jesus, I am a sinner. Romans 5 8, I believe, um, says that we've all sinned and fallen short. Let me make sure. Uh, but God shows his love for us that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Okay. So while we were still sinners, which clearly says, yes, I, apart from Jesus, am a sinner. But he says, while we were yet sinners, speaking to a former reality. 2 Corinthians 5, 17, I am a new creation in Christ. The old things have passed away. Yes, without Jesus, that was my identity, sinner. But now, 2 Corinthians 5, verse 21, to make sure that I have this accurate. Don't want to misquote scripture.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Is that the one on the inside of your right arm?

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Uh no, it's close, it's close to it.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Um, by the way, Pastor Sam is a phenomenal golfer, just for the record, you heard it here first.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

It is so not true.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Um, he saw me hit some decent shots today, but but no, we have to tell you know what we're gonna break from our regular scheduled programming to say that Pastor Sam did not lose a single golf ball today.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

I was playing with a very expensive golf ball and that someone got me for my birthday. Yeah, yes, and I kept it for the entirety of the round, which I'm very, very proud of.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

You know what's really interesting about that? You always protect what you value. It's true. So, what do you value in life? You know, if you have if you have a nice car, let's say of course you park a little farther away, you park away from cars, you protect what you value, and I think values will always drive um a lot of your behaviors, and I think it's synonymous a lot with identity. You know, when we have our identity in Christ and we um live through his nature, you know, I just posted a video recently um saying that it's not enough to just say in Jesus' name when you're like casting out uh demons or healing the sick, there's obviously power in that people like don't care what I'm not saying to the person listening to this, but it's like we say that because it's indicative of us living in Jesus' name. Yeah, it's with that power and authority that he has ordained us with, yeah, insofar as we're obedient and surrendered to him.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah, that's our reality now.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

So when we say in Jesus' name, the I and correct me if I'm wrong, our life has to match up with that in order to be that conduit in the spiritual and physical realm and have that dominion, right? So it flows from identity, which in which informs our values. And like I've said many times, it's easy to do who you are, it's difficult to do who you're not. And so if you identify as someone who's broken and who's um a loser and you always mess things up and you have you don't have any like self-worth, I know that's kind of a bad term, but you get what I'm saying here. It's like you're gonna see that manifest in your life because you are gonna actually act that out.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Yep, you know. Yeah, and that makes me think of you know, when you say, Okay, I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic. What's the purpose of that? I'm taking ownership for the place in my life where I've messed up. I'm recognizing the place where I have a deficiency. But I also don't think that with Christ in our lives, we should be walking around saying, I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yeah, I was gonna say, do you think that's a good that's not I never thought that was a good part of the the alcoholic?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

But they say that the the the first part of it is that you have to recognize what's going on, right? You have to be able to come to terms with the reality that this is my nature. So by nature, I have a dependency issue or I have an addictive personality. Like I am an alcoholic, I am an addict. To come to that place of recognizing that to start is really helpful. Yeah, but with Christ, I am no longer an alcoholic, I am no longer an addict, I am no longer a loser, I'm no longer a thief, a liar, whatever it is. I can still experience some of those attractions and those even those places where I'm drawn to these things. But this is what I wanted to get to 2 Corinthians chapter 5, verse 21.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

We took the long route there.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Yes, over here. For our sake, he, this is God, made him, Jesus, to be sin, who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. My identity is no longer in what was. My identity in Christ is that I have been made righteous through what he did. Not my own righteousness, not my own ability, not my own ability to stop doing the things I don't want to do. It's recognizing that Jesus died once and for all, took the sin upon his back, and it says now that we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin, but alive to Christ, which is easy to say, but this is where this meditation on the truth of scripture and this reality that we keep talking about, transformation by the renewal of our mind comes into play. Because the enemy will continue continually lead you into sin and then accuse you of it.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Why why do you think though they they like keep it as like a badge of honor? Because I've talked to a lot of former addicts and alcoholics, and it's like they they want to hold on to that so bad still. And I think I think it's if you're listening to this and and you're a former addict or alcoholic, it's like you it got it has to go from I am to I was, yeah, I think, right? Because like I said, you're always it's always gonna be easy to do who you are. And to me, it's like why why not recognize that freedom that we have in in Christ if you're a believer. And I don't want to go too far on a tangent about Alcoholics Anonymous, but it just reminded me of kind of the program, you know, I don't I don't know it uh too too much.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Well, because we don't know it, like Pastor Dave, we were just with earlier, he was in those classes and he said, That's what I did say. He goes, I don't say that anymore. That's not my identity anymore. That's not who I am, that's who I was.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Well, I was gonna ask you because it's on this topic of confusion and and truth being distorted. I know a lot of them quote unquote find God in the program. Yeah. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yeah, they use and quote unquote use religion as a place of putting their trust in a higher power, which is really good to put your trust in a higher power so long as that higher power is Jesus, and so long as it's not just a religious exercise that you're actually building relationship with the one who brings you your salvation, brings you your freedom, brings you the ability to overcome the old nature. And so it is a good thing that they use it, but you actually have to continue into that place of recognizing I can't, but he did.

unknown 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Why do you why do you think though that Satan uses these things, and there's only a handful, like we mentioned. Um, like why does he spend so much time on them? Like, why why is it why is it like these three or four hot topics?

SPEAKER_00 41:05

It's all identity-based. Yeah, like he will always go after our identity, he'll always try to distort who we are. If we've been created in the image and the likeness of God, then that is what we should be in pursuit of.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

You know what I think it really goes against? Marriage.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Like, especially a lot of like these movements now where you know, I don't need no man, or the hookup culture for a guy, just get another notch on his belt and just wants to be the single alpha dude. Um, you know, the women who's like the boss lady. Uh, you have these gender issues now where it's like, okay, anybody can be with anybody. Like, it's it's coming against the the institution and sacred union of marriage.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up. All right. So, what does it say in Ephesians chapter six, I believe? It says, Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church, laying his life down for her. Marriage is meant to be a picture of the joining together of us as humanity with the groom who is Jesus. So, why would the enemy want to tear down the institution of marriage? Because he wants to tear down the understanding of who we are as the bride of Christ. There are two things that I believe the enemy really attacks very specifically in identity: being a son or a daughter of God, and being the one who is the pursuit of Jesus Himself. Jesus is coming back for who? For his bride. So if he can diminish marriage, if he can diminish sexuality, if he can diminish what it is to be in a committed relationship, then he has the ability to distort the relationship that we're meant to have with Jesus. And if we think about ourselves in the way that, okay, I have found God, Christ is my savior, and I just think, well, now I'm just going to live my life by a set of rules and regulations or morality, then that will get me so far. But what if I realize that I am one who's preparing myself for an eventual wedding day with the one who loves me more than I could ever imagine, the one who gave everything to be able to be restored in relationship with me. Now I live differently. So now we see why the enemy distorts identity, why he distorts sex, why he I he why he wants to be able to bring distortion to any level of truth, because that truth is meant to bring us to the one who is the truth and speaks the truth. And that allows him to be able to bring separation. And he doesn't actually can't separate us from God. The devil cannot come into your life and pull you away from God. Can he influence that though? Well, this is the point, right? He can't separate you. It says life nor death in heaven or hell. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. So what he has to do is he has to come and say, Did God really say? Distort our understanding of who God is. God's holding something back for you from you. And then he gets us to make the decision for ourselves. If he can get us to make the decision for ourselves, then he wins. He couldn't get Eve to eat the apple. He couldn't force her to eat the apple, but he could entice her to eat the apple. And in questioning the goodness of God and speaking to something she did not have, he got her to eat the apple. So the question is, what is that for us? If we're becoming disciples of Jesus and followers of Jesus, what is the thing that the enemy is trying to entice us with? And this is where this whole episode leads to. What are the things in our life that the enemy is pointing to and saying, hey, you don't have that thing and you need it? Is God holding that back from you? Is your relationship with Christ, is it holding you back from the thing that's ultimately going to give you purpose and fulfillment? Is truly walking in a place of submission to God? Because this is this is not an easy word, but it is the truth. We're meant to give ourselves fully to Him. What are you not going to get? What are you going to miss out on? Are you going to miss out on fun? Are you going to miss out on wealth? Are you going to miss out on purpose and identity and all these other things that the world promises? Because if we think that's true, then we will accept a lesser reality. And as a result, we will separate ourselves from God. And the enemy doesn't have to do it. He's enticed us to do it through distortion and lies.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Yeah. And it sounds like if we were to boil this down to one main point here is that Satan wants to distort our identity. And why do you think everybody's focused on self-image now? And he has that in his grips. And you know, I see uh Genesis 127 says, so God created man in his own image. In the image of God, he created him, male and female, he created them. And we're supposed to live out that image. Yeah. That's our self-image. It's God's image. Now, this brings up a question in relation to the marriage, real quick. Is do you think the union between a male and a female in marriage is the manifestation of the full image of God? Yes, yes or no? And if not, I guess that means that we can individually be the full image of God?

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yeah, so so it doesn't uh in terms of our personal walk with God?

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Well, just when I read this verse specifically, right? Male and female, he created them in his own image as a unit, that sounds. It's not it's not male separated from female. Does that mean that when a male and female get married and become one flesh, they are now the full image of God together as one flesh?

SPEAKER_00 46:38

They are a depiction of it, but Paul also says very clearly, like, and Paul wasn't married. Paul's like, hey, if you can abstain from being married, go for it. That's actually better.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Who hurt Paul? That's what I want to know. Woman hurt him.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

We don't know anything about his pharisaical life or his career before that. But he's like, hey, this is not for everybody. Not everybody has to be married. And if you can not do that, he it actually, and we have to look up the verse, it actually seems like he's like, hey, that's actually better, right? He almost makes it seem like you're the weaker one if you're if you have to go get married. But we know that, and this is what I'll point to fully. When it comes to parenting, this is where the male and the female really must be present to display who God is in terms of what you produce. And this is again why it's so sad that we see these videos of men together who are adopting children, who are mocking their children. Oh, you want your mommy? There is no mommy. Like, have you seen that video? It's it's disgusting. Um, or individuals who are sex offenders and cannot adopt on their own, going out and hiring surrogates so that they can have children of their own, and there's no legislation against this. And now they are trying to be both male and female to raise a child in this world, and it doesn't work. And who is left to suffer? It's the child, it's distortion, it's the brokenness. And and this is of in any place. I'm not just, I know it seems like we're just picking on these hot topic issues. It's any place where we accept a lesser reality for ourselves than God has for us. What we will produce will be more of the same, and it will produce deficiency, it will produce lack. And this is the enemy's strategy, and this is why it says in Revelation 12, it speaks about Satan, and it says that he was the one who leads the whole world astray. But it says that God tears down who he is, he he hurls the great dragon down, the ancient serpent who is called the devil, Revelation 12, 9, and it says that he is now dethroned. Uh 2 Corinthians 11 14 says that Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light. This should be a sober reality to individuals when they feel like I'm running with the truth, even though it's contrary to the Bible. If it's not the truth of the word of God, whose truth is it? And if you're running with this thing because it gives you purpose and identity, please take the time to reassess it under the understanding of God is a good God who loves you. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever would believe in him wouldn't perish, wouldn't die, wouldn't be separated, death talking about eternally, wouldn't be separated for eternity, but have eternal life. That's the love of God for us. He's not withholding anything from us, he desires to give us all that we need and more, but we have to come before him rightly and with the correct understanding of who he is, not listening to what the enemy is saying, which is he's holding back from you, but realizing that all of Scripture points to God wanting to give us and to bless us and to adopt us as children. This is what we have to realize.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

You just mentioned a word for the first time all episode, which was uh distraction. Distraction seems in real time seemingly more innocent to the person suffering from the distraction, even unknowingly. Can you speak to that real quick? Because we talked about distortion, we talked about him um perverting the truth, counterfeit ideas and and whatnot. But distraction is a little different, and it seems like there's a nuance to that. So, where do you think are the most common areas people are distracted in right now? Even especially specifically Christians, like where do you find that we get distracted the most?

SPEAKER_00 50:42

It depends on our personality. There's all number of things that we can be distracted with, but I want to talk to the purpose of the distraction. If God creates us in his image and he calls us into a specific purpose, which I don't want people to get bogged down into, okay, my purpose is to do this, my purpose is to be a pastor, or it's to be this or that. But there is something that your life is meant to produce. There is an assignment that God gives you on your life to be able to bring teaching or to bring um healing or to be able to lead people back to Him. Uh, we talk about apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, but even not getting even that specific. God has created you for a reason. There's something that God has put on your life that other people need. So, how is the enemy best able to keep you from accomplishing that by distracting you with other things, by distracting you with your past, distracting you with your pain, distracting you with your hurt, even places, and you know I'm a I'm a um proponent of having a good counselor, a good Christian counselor, and talking through those things. But what you can do now is you can become so wrapped up in the past that you're distracted from what you're able to do moving into the into the future of what God has for you.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

I'm gonna say something a little counterintuitive to this conversation right now, but I feel like even these conversations that we're having can sometimes be a distraction. And that may trigger somebody listening a little bit because they're like, oh, well, no, I agree with what they're saying. But once again, a lot of times they focus on the sin out there, not the sin in here. And I've said I've said that multiple times. And I'm projecting here because I used to do this. I'd have these conversations, I get really fired up about these hot topics, you know, and they're important. Yeah, but it was almost like if I really let the Holy Spirit expose what was happening inside of me, yeah, it was almost like justifying my own sin.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

If it becomes your identity and your purpose is to go out and to prove everyone else wrong, then again, you're filling a deficit with something good, with something noble, even. But if that becomes who you are, and that it is for a lot of people, they're all over social media defending whoever their political candidate is or whatever their issue is, and they're like, no, this is the truth, this is the right thing. They're trying to fill something inside of them by standing on the truth, yeah, and it can be a distraction for sure.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

So let's talk about distortion, let's talk about where the devil's perverting things right now. I sent you a uh a tweet or an ex post recently of uh Lulu now uh now I love this uh selling hijabs um at scale, and it's right there on their website. I couldn't believe it. Actually, someone said it to me. I literally didn't follow the link. I went to lululemon.com and I searched for hijab. Yeah, and it was there.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Was your response what mine was? What I sent back to you? Can we say it live? Yeah. Oh no, no, because my response was not safe for the second. But was your thought process in the contradiction? Was it was it the same as what mine was?

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Oh, yeah. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Okay, yeah, yeah. Because all I know is I go to Lululemon. There's two stores that I know of for sure, besides every coffee shop in in New York, that you go up to it and there's the pride flag. Oh, actually, every coffee shop in New York and every old school mainline denomination, like Methodist church, no, it's the pride flag. Yeah, that's the thing that is okay. If you want to come in here, you know this is where we stand. Well, you go into Lululemon, and the first thing on the glass is the pride flag. And then what you have to understand is in their promotion of the hijab and the Islamic faith, could these things be any less compatible? Can you think of two things that are less compatible than a religion that is completely condemning and brings into uh penalty of death, homosexuality, and the LGBTQIA plus community?

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Well, and this is why when the dark starts getting exposed, it doesn't hold up. And this is why, even like from a practical perspective, like a lot of people are pathological liars, unfortunately, it's really hard to keep up with a lie for a long period of time. Yeah, same thing is true at scale in in marketing and in the marketplace, you know, you see these total contradictory things happening, yeah, and they it just doesn't make sense because it doesn't make sense. Yeah, and so just like whether it's the congressman drilling the advocate for whatever many locker rooms, many women locker, yeah. It's like once you get down to the objective truth, the lie instantly fails. Yeah, and what what drives me crazy once again is like how how do they just double down on it? And so, and this goes back back on the conversation of distorting things, the whole pride movement of we we joked about not joked, but seriously, like the the rainbow, you know what what once well it still does represents got God's covenant, yeah, has been stolen. Yeah, and I am gonna make those t-shirts that say make the rainbow uh Christian again. But um I want to I we were talking about the hijabs, and the reason I was thinking about that because there's one topic we didn't bring up in relation to this, and it's the kind of the false religion aspect of it. And I was thinking about what we should title this episode. Um what why is Christianity the right religion? You know, why is it the true religion? Why is it the light and these other ones are the dark? You know what I mean? So where do we where do we start with those conversations?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Because I don't know paths lead to God, yeah. Uh every faith is good as long as I have faith in something. If you have faith in something, that's you know, I have faith in something, that's fine. All paths are going to lead to the same place. And even sects of Christianity that would say, well, um, God wouldn't really send people to hell. Like a loving God wouldn't do that. So, you know, you could still get to heaven if you just did enough good things. Jesus is so clear about this, and this is where sola scriptura really comes in the belief and the understanding that this is the word of God. And and even just practically speaking, there are some things that can only be done one way. There are some people who are truly meant to be able to take on a certain task. Um, my wife asks me all the time, and she always jokes, I'm a strong, independent woman until something's too heavy for her to carry, and then I pick it up and I carry it, right? There are certain things that I'm built for and certain things that she's built for that I could never do. There are some truths in the universe, gravity, thermodynamics, all of these things. We can accept them in these areas, but then when it comes to God, it's like, well, as long as I feel good about what I'm doing. Every other religion has to do with my own ability to live up to a standard. And you want to know something that I know very firmly about myself? I cannot live up to a standard. I want to, with everything in me, to live up to God's standard, and I still fall short of it. Every other religion, though, is if you do enough good, if you do enough right, then you're gonna find acceptance. Christianity is the only one where it says there is the person of Jesus who is God who came and gave his life for you because you couldn't do it on your own. You could never reach that standard, and you know it, or at least you should. And the only way is through his death and his resurrection. And that's the that's the thing that sets Christianity apart from everything else. It's not up to my ability, it's up to his ability because he's perfect and loving and gave himself for me.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

Yeah, I think Christians even get this wrong is like Muslims don't have the same God that we do. No, they're not worshiping the same God.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

It ties back to Abraham, yeah, right, to Ishmael and Isaac, and so there are some commonalities in faith. Their Quran actually speaks to Jesus, but no, they are not, they are not the same. Yeah, absolutely. And and this push for Islam as this more recognized faith, if we take it to the farthest extremes of it, you can deny it, but it pushes for the killing of the infidels, for the push towards this new understanding of what their kingdom looks like. I want to just be clear, like I don't know all the specifics of it, but this is what Islam pushes for.

SPEAKER_03 59:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

And that's very anti-Christianity, very anti-the-gospel, and we should be aware of that while still operating in love and loving the person always.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

When we talk about these topics, do you think we're worse off now as a generation than previous generations? Because I feel like every generation says, this is the worst generation, the end is near, you know.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

I do see evidence that this is getting worse with it.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Accelerated. Yeah. I think that any generation dealing with what they were dealing with, if they had the advent of social media and our artificial intelligence, it's just what we're dealing with is accelerated. We're dealing with it on a greater platform, it's more broadly known and seen. We have news more available and information more available. Um, everything now can be in your hand, all kinds of good, all kinds of evil. So it's just, it's just brought to the forefront and accelerated. And if we look scripturally, that makes sense because as you're moving closer to an end point where Jesus will return, then things are going to go into decay. But at the same time, you know what we're gonna see is that there are gonna be more and more people pursuing truth. And this is what I'm so encouraged by is that what we see in church and what we see around the world is young people coming back to God in droves. We see people coming to church, um, especially on this past Sunday. We had five young men who came up and said, Yes, I want to follow Jesus with my life. That when I was growing up, I didn't see that happening hardly ever. Maybe at a youth conference, we'd have a few people that would emotionally make a decision and prayerfully they would continue in it. We're seeing week after week young men and women and adults, but really focused on seeing this younger generation coming back to God because what they're seeing is that the world's way of doing it doesn't work. And so as the dark gets darker, that's the contrast we're talking about. The light is going to get brighter and we're going to see the separation between the two. So we shouldn't be surprised when we see more and more people pushing to the outer extremes of delusion. That's what Romans 1 talks about, uh, but also seeing an increase in the amount of people that are coming back to Jesus and finding the truth and living according to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

I don't know why I just thought this, but it sounds like the devil's a really good party planner because he's great at getting people to celebrate these extreme areas of delusion. Yeah. Right. Where do you find these celebrations are happening most often for our generation right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

When there's an overcompensation, when there needs to be something to grab a hold of for identity, purpose, and community, that's when we'll celebrate something. We love to celebrate things together. In sports, I love to go when the Yankees are winning and to celebrate with other Yankee fans. It's not as much fun if you're celebrating by yourself. So if this thing brings me purpose and identity and others are doing the same thing and coming together, then we can celebrate together. Eventually there's going to be a conflict, though. Because if there are, use this terminology, open borders on everything, at a certain point there's going to be conflict. If there's no definition to life, to marriage, to sexuality, to purity, to religion, to faith, to any of these things, then there's going to be conflicts that are going to be created and it's going to backfire. And then where are these individuals left? And so if the church doesn't take its stand to be who the church is meant to be, to represent God well, then when these celebrations end, um, and the people are left broken, they're not going to know where to go. Yeah. And so we want to be the answer to be able to bring them back to Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

I do, I do feel like Christians on the whole have done a less than stellar job mobilizing together, as well as these sects of belief systems that are so out there, you know, whether it's the Muslim community who overtakes these towns and and they're all grouped up together and they're bold in their prayer life and in their faith. Imagine if if the Christians here, the Christian listening to this, could be as bold as a Muslim is getting on, you know, in the middle of Times Square doing a prayer or whatever time they do it, you know. Um they're celebrating, doing these protests. Um, they're standing up for women's reproductive health, pride month. You know, like we I find that the Christians that I'm around at least they're not mobilized together. We need to have these conversations, and that's why I'm glad we're doing it kind of on online and people can watch it, but like it needs to go beyond just you and your buddy talking about these things.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

For sure. We've become too familiar with the freedom that we have in terms of our faith. We've become too bashful in terms of what it is that we carry. We're afraid to pray in a restaurant or to share our faith with somebody because of the criticism that we're going to get back instead of recognizing that what I carry is the thing that can change someone's life for eternity. And we don't think about eternity enough. We don't think about the end game. So we don't mobilize, we don't pursue these things in terms of the advancement of the kingdom. Jesus said that the kingdom suffers violently and the violent take it by force. That there is an advancement of both kingdoms, light and darkness. And so, yeah, those who find their purpose and identity in these other things have no problem pushing it to the nth degree. We as Christians, and we've said this in the past, are often on the back foot. We're ashamed of it, and we've seen bad examples of it, and we don't want to be like that person who makes someone feel uncomfortable.

unknown 1:04:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

So we talked about like these obvious areas of deception. What are some more subtle areas of deception that you see people struggling with or unknowingly struggling with or getting involved in?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

Yeah, so I would say places where we are too quick to bring judgment and condemnation against uh people that we love, even gossip, um, tearing people down, uh places where um what was the specific question again?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:09

Well, I was asking what what are what are some areas of subtle um distraction, distortion, compromise? You know, we talked about these kind of three or four big uh themes, but in the cr uh the life of an everyday, or the every in the everyday life of a Christian, yeah, what are those areas that they may not be aware of, but they're compromising or there's some there's a gray area that they're operating in that they shouldn't be?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

How free we are with our speech sometimes and the things that we say, the fact that we carry the name of Jesus, but we're so free to be able to speak things that are condemning and judging against ourselves and others. Um, places where there's compromise personally, where I say that this is right or this is wrong, and yet behind the scenes I've made excuses for them, I've made a Allowances for them. Um any place where the enemy is able to get a foothold, where he's able to have influence, even on a small level, are things that we should be aware of. And the more that we're discipled by and following Jesus, the more evident these things become.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Yeah. You mentioned uh gossip or the things that we talk about kind of flippantly. Um what I've realized, you know, I I I always say this is like fringe, but it's not fringe because the spiritual realm is obviously real, it's it's more real than this physical existence. But there is there is dangerous things that occur um in the spiritual realm when you're gossiping about someone. And uh I hope someone listening to this gets convicted on this because I I used to gossip a lot, kind of like unknowingly, just my buddies like, oh, did you see you know Jill? Like, what what an idiot, you know, just like thing, but like those words are having a tangible effect. And this is where it sounds a little fringe or or weird, but it it it affects that person, and you can unknowingly curse people too. Um, so I think people really need to be careful with what they're actually speaking out loud. Obviously, the thoughts is gonna be, you know, they're your words are gonna be a manifestation of your intent and your thoughts most of the time. Um, but what you actually let come out of your mouth uh can be very dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

Yeah, and a divisive at the very least, and affect the way that you see them, the way that you interact with them, and how other people might see them. Yeah. Because there have been times where I have a personal, you know, connection to somebody and they did something, and I'll let my frustration about them be known on a larger level. Now the other person's like, oh, well, I wonder what he's talking about. And their opinion of that person is now affected by it. And that happens a lot in all walks of life, but when it happens in the church, it's ex it's especially uh dangerous, it's especially divisive, and it happens far too often.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

Yeah, Ephesians 4 29 says, Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. You know, this is something I think is good for the the married Christian out there. You know, I I I admittedly sometimes vent to my buddies about marriage life and my wife. Yeah, but I realize that what I'm saying about my wife in real time is having such a significant impact. And like even just speaking positive words to her in real time and taking a beat to just be like, Holy Spirit, what do you have to say about this particular thing? Because I immediately go to like, I'm right, you're wrong, I know what what the truth is. And that's not always the case. And it leads to me saying things that maybe I shouldn't say um that have a far more significant negative impact than I had intended in in real time. Um, but just kind of asking myself and asking the Holy Spirit, what what do you have to say about this? Yeah and then praying that I can articulate that is such a is such a game changer, you know? So what do you what do you say about that? When like because obviously there's like objective reality of a situation or someone has done something wrong, and also this idea of of encouraging somebody, even in that struggle, even in that argument. How do we approach conflict with uh not even just a spouse, but a spouse, but a fellow believer?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Yeah, in the same way, we want to have the end in mind when we're bringing any kind of correction or even just we're having a disagreement or an argument. And if it's not something serious, we both can be partially right about something. Uh, but what's the end goal? It's how I see them, it's who I want them to be and how I want them to feel at the end of our interaction. And so if I feel that the most important thing is that I protect my own self-image, if I protect my own opinion above their well-being, then I can accomplish that. But then at the end, what's the end result of it? It's division, it's separation instead of unity, instead of being able to be somebody who speaks what God is saying about that person. And so that's where we need to slow down and start to say, Holy Spirit, I I need this patience, I need the ability to be humble in this moment and to not put forward my own agenda. And I think that's an important thing is the places where our emotions come up the strongest are usually the places where we have a wound and we're trying to protect it. And this can apply to this whole conversation. I mean, there's people that will be offended by what we spoke about and what I what I shared on based off of the truth. Yeah. The question I would ask is why? Yeah. And if it is your truth, and if it is the truth, then who cares what I have to say? But usually it will bring up an emotion because it's tied back to something that is associated with your identity. And we need to be really aware of that because the more the more places that we have like that, the more vulnerabilities that we have before the enemy. He actually has a place in my life where he has like a consulate, right? Where it's his uh territory within my life. And I want to root those out. I want to root out those strongholds, those belief systems that are tied to his way of thinking, which is deficit, lack, who I'm not, um, instead of who God says that I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

Yeah, and you made a great point there. If you're feeling triggered by this conversation, it's a good cue to pause and to ask yourself why.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

Yeah, don't take my word for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Yeah. I used to I used to tell, yeah, I used to tell uh clients who I I coach like, I don't always want to resonate with you because I'm just resonating with your belief systems then, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Yeah, and just to be a challenge.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

Just because it feels good or sounds good to you, you know, doesn't mean it's truth. Which brings me to something I want to talk about in closing here. And by the way, before we close, I'm so bad at these call to actions. Just just hit the subscribe button. Like for the love of God. Literally, please help us.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:52

Share, find us on social media, all the things.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:55

I'm not beyond begging for your uh for you to hit the subscribe button.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

Wait a second, though. If we're gonna do the call to action every Sunday, I am the pastor of a church called The Gathering in Poughkeepsie, New York, by the way. Um, we have a live stream that you can join every Sunday at 10 o'clock. We have an amazing team who puts this live stream together. And if you want to join us in person, we would love to have you 10 a.m. Sunday mornings at the gathering. You can look us up online. We'd love to have you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

Yeah, that would that would be awesome. I I'm I'm so happy to be a part of the gathering, to be someone who can sit there and and listen to you while you're on stage behind the pulpit. Uh, you do such a great job. Um and it the depth, I've said this before, like the depth is spiritually at the church is is like nowhere else I've been before. And I and I appreciate you for uh for shepherding that it's awesome. Um, which you know talks about the fact that there's certain things that do make us feel good. Like when I think about going to the gathering, I feel good, right? I also feel convicted, which I think is useful as well. Um, but it brings up uh 2 Corinthians 11, 14, where it says, and no wonder for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. And we talked this is my kind of an underlying theme throughout this episode is like people go with their emotions and what feels good. So can you talk to me about what this actually means? Because this kind of this to me, this is a scary concept or idea or truth. It's like Satan can masquerade and does masquerade as an angel of light, which to me goes deeper than just like distraction or distortion or counterfeit things.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

Can you read verse 15 as well?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:32

Um, I only have okay. I only have four. Verse 15.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

So so this is really important. And no wonder, this is verse 14. No wonder, for even that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. I can think of a whole handful of individuals who are the ones saying, This is truth, this is right, this is good, and they are walking in the deception of the enemy. They're the ones that are the proponents of the greatest places of delusion that go against God's purposes for life and for sexuality and for protecting children and for protecting women, all of these areas. But what Paul says very clearly is that they're following the devil, who is the one who disguises himself as an angel of light, and they will also meet an end that corresponds to their deeds. This is so prevalent in the world that we're living in right now, and the and the way that the enemy can get us to accept his lies is by making them seem good, to call evil good, and to call good evil. This is the way he operates. And so I just really wish that we could recognize that following God sometimes is a whole lot simpler than we make it. All these issues become so complex and so distorted and so diluted because the enemy has a strategy in them.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

Yeah. Do we see this in the church?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

I'm sure we do. I'm trying to think in which context.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:06

I'm not saying here specifically, but do we see this idea of the the devil showing up as an angel of light?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

Do we see so we've talked about James Tallerico, and just just to call him out for a moment, because as a politician, he's running on a platform of Christianity. He's running on a platform of I'm standing for what is right and what is good. And he's taking Bible verses and distorting them and trying to bring along with him this contingent of Christians who would say, Yes, I want to follow Jesus, but I also want to hold on to my progressive ideologies and belief systems when the two are not compatible. One does not lead to Jesus. And so I either have to uh change the word of God or I have to bring down the understanding of who Jesus is to match my understanding. And so, yes, this is happening in the church that I would say in a broad sense is the church, but not in the capital C church, which is the body of Christ, who is operating under the truth of who God says that he is and who we're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

Well, just in that it it makes me think that if a politician can be that way and act that way, so can uh someone who calls themselves a pastor.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

Pastors, leaders, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:20

So how how do you I already know the answer to this, I think. How do you combat that individual on the individual level? How do you make sure that you're able to see that when it's when it's there?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

Two things know the word of God, so you know what the standard is, and two, pray for discernment.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

So Jesus said, I'm gonna send you the Holy Spirit, and he's gonna remind you of the words that I've spoken. So these are the words that he's spoken, and there is more that the Holy Spirit will reveal to us through the Word. So if we know the Word, and then we're also sensitive to what the Holy Spirit's saying, then we can have discernment to be able to know what is good and what is evil.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:59

You think there you think there's ever too much Bible reading, too much Bible study? No, yeah. I know what this is another thing I'm projecting on, but it's something that like it's such a it's it's such a simple revelation. But this book, like, if we could all just read it more, study it more, pray on it more, meditate with it more. Yeah, like it's it really is that simple, but it's it's infinitely profound and eternal.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:23

Except when it feels too complicated. Yeah, you're everything you said is right. And the reason I say accept is because people will say, Well, it's really complicated to read, I don't understand it. You have to invest in it. If you're gonna learn anything new, it's because you're gonna give yourself to it. And at first, it's not gonna make sense until you start to really invest in that relationship in the time spent into it. And so, whoever's listening, read your Bible. Yeah, like start in the gospels, read about Jesus. And if you don't understand, there are plenty of amazing tools, but even reach out to us, we'd love to be able to help.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

Yeah, and if you're a disciple listening to this who's already, he's like, Oh, yeah, I read I read my Bible all the time. Well, encourage someone else to do it. That's one of the things I've been trying to be better at. Is I have a couple buddies of mine who I just like, I'll shoot them a random text. Like, you read your Bible today? Yeah, and it also it then in turn makes makes me more accountable, you know. Um, so get it get in the it's like, and first of all, this is this is a supernatural spiritual algorithm. Yeah, sounds a little buzzwordy, but you get what I'm saying that you get to download, you know, and this is this is going to reinforce that identity, which is then going to manifest in your life in very tangible ways, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

And get a physical Bible, yes. Digital Bibles are good, it's really convenient to be able to have the word of God wherever you go, but get a physical Bible and allow the words on the page, like don't be in a hurry to read through them, read them slowly. And if you have questions, get in good community, ask questions, and it's the way that we eat, it's the way that we're fed, it's the way that we're able to receive.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:56

Speaking of physical Bible, do you did you see the video with Jay Farrow, the comedian, no, talking about a Bible? So he's he's a comedian, he's a believer, and he was convicted that he should get a physical Bible because he was just reading it on his phone on the some Bible app. And uh he was praying about it, and he had a um a tour coming up, and at a particular venue, they they actually had to cancel the show because they didn't sell enough tickets. One thing led to another, they were able to um get it back on the schedule, and he performs that night. He hasn't bought a Bible yet, he gets done. There's a Christian pastor there who couldn't get into the show but waited the entire time for him to come out, and he said, Uh, the Lord told me he wanted me to give you a Bible. That alone is crazy. He said the Bible was a blue Bible with his name on it. It looked exactly the same to a Bible that he had as a kid. And he said when he opened it up, it was the last verse he had left off on his Bible app was where it was marked in his Bible. That's awesome. And so I think that's a pretty clear sign, not just to Jay Farrow, but to us to have a physical, the physical word here.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:08

Um, so with that, Sam, uh, this is this is great. And I think not only should people uh re-listen to these episodes, but definitely check out the ones before and after because we often dovetail um pretty pretty well in either direction. Um and also if you have any questions, uh leave them in the comments below. Topics that you want us to to talk about and go deeper on. Uh that's why we're here. That's why we're doing this. Um, do you have anything that you want to leave?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:32

Any final uh Yeah, just if there's questions about these things, like there's sensitive issues that we covered, they need to be discussed. Um, they need to be discussed through the lens of truth. But if there are questions that go along with it, like I think the easiest way is on our Instagram page at fifth gospel at five th. Um, send us a private message. We'd love to be able to have further conversation. If there are questions, if there are questions about scriptures that we cover. Um, we don't want to just we're not saying things just for the sake of saying them. If there's conversation that comes from it, great. And it could be anonymous and we'd love to have them.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:08

Yeah. And as always, remember, you are the fifth gospel. Yeah. Right. So Sam, go ahead and pray us out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:13

Lord Jesus, I just thank you as always for the ability to dive into your word to be able to explore the truth that you have spoken. And I pray that for anybody who's made it this far, that is listening right now, that Holy Spirit, you would speak into the places where there may be confusion, distortion, places where there might be darkness, that you would bring light, that you would bring comfort, that you would bring grace, Lord, that even in the places of our greatest failures, that your good is so much better than our worst. So, Lord Jesus, we receive what you've done for us. We thank you for your grace, and we pray all this in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:46

Amen.