How Do You Know It's God Speaking?

Can you really hear God's voice?

In Part 1 of this conversation, Anthony Serino and Pastor Sam Edwards explore what the Bible teaches about hearing God, growing in discernment, and walking in step with the Holy Spirit.
They discuss why hearing God is rooted in relationship—not performance—and share three biblical tests for discerning whether a thought truly comes from God.

In this episode:
• Does God still speak today?• The meaning of John 10:27 ("My sheep hear My voice")• Pentecost and the reversal of Babel• Three biblical filters for discernment• Why Scripture is the final authority• The importance of wise counsel and Christian community• Why obedience increases spiritual clarity• Learning to trust God one step at a time

Whether you're new to following Jesus or have walked with Him for years, this conversation offers practical biblical wisdom for recognizing God's voice with confidence.

Timestamps:
00:00 Hearing God Together
02:13 Why God Speaks
09:31 Pentecost & Babel
20:09 Three Tests for Discernment
28:18 Scripture Is the Authority
30:40 Wise Counsel Matters
49:58 Tuning Into God's Voice
56:32 Why God Gives the Next Step
01:01:08 Obedience Unlocks Hearing
01:08:17 Experiencing God's Presence
01:10:05 Closing Prayer

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

When we are hearing from God, we should have brothers and sisters, leaders and teachers that we're able to come and talk to because we're not meant to be on an island all by ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

It is so important that you surround yourself with godly people who are seeking righteousness, who have unspoken expectations of you that are aligned with God's will.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

But when we're talking about hearing the voice of God, we have to realize that it is his will for us to be able to hear his voice, that it's meant to bring unity, and it happens only under Jesus through the Holy Spirit. Lord Jesus, I just thank you as always for the opportunity to speak, to be able to reveal more of who you are, Lord God, through the scripture. And I thank you for this time together as we're talking about hearing your voice, hearing you speak to us. And I'm just so grateful that you care enough to speak to us, that you care enough to lead us, that you care enough to help us to discern what it is that you're saying and you're doing. So I pray everything that we discuss, every word that we speak, that it would be in alignment with your spirit. And I thank you for all these things in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Amen. I'm so happy we started in prayer. And we've done that before, but specifically for this episode, I'm always thinking about the hook. What's going to get the most clicks?

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

But a verse that wrecked me was from Psalms. It was Psalms 127, 1. That says, Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. So if we did all of this without his presence, without his say, without his guidance, doesn't matter how good the hook is, it doesn't matter what we what words we string together. And so today is going to be about hearing from God. What that looks like, what are the practical steps to perhaps enhancing our ability to hear from God? But also, I we're going to point out some areas where I think a lot of Christians get it wrong.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

When you hear the title, How to Hear from God, as a pastor, where does your mind go first?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

One of the greatest privileges that we have as Christians is to know that there is a creator, that he loves us, and that he desires to be in relationship with us. Any other relationship in our life requires communication. Any other relationship in our life requires us to be able to speak, but also to listen. And so why would God be any different, especially when God is the one who designed us and created relationship to be what it is? And so for me, to know that he is speaking and to know that we can hear is the most important starting point. And uh to me, that's what I think of immediately.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Yeah. And what I find is that most Christians feel like they're struggling or they feel stuck because they assume or feel like God isn't speaking to them. But I find that most Christians are actually stuck or struggling because God is speaking to them, but they haven't tuned in to his voice. So as we kind of double-click into this topic, I want to talk about the supernatural side of this, but also the practical steps that a follower of Jesus can take to tune in to enhance their ability to uh hear and and interpret. Because I've realized in my life there's been times that I hear from God, but the revelation or the interpretation either doesn't come or it doesn't come until much later. Because it's like I didn't know what to look for, I didn't know what to hear for. And that's that's the thing God has put on my heart uh recently is like you can't see what you're not looking for, you can't hear what you're not listening for. And so just listening to this episode for the listener right now, just moving your awareness towards the ability and the possibility of hearing from God is going to enhance your ability to do so. And once again, I just want to reiterate this unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. And why this episode means so much to me is because I've done the worldly thing, the worldly strategy. I've built the business, I've built the content machines, I've built um the social media platforms and whatnot. It means nothing if God is not walking with me hand in hand in it and guiding me through that. And so for me, when I think about how to hear from God, the purpose of it is so that I can discern his will for me. Yeah, not so I can hear, oh, you're doing the right thing because you think it's the right thing. It's like, no, this is what you're supposed to do, this is the direction you're supposed to be in. And then if we go one step further into the revelation that I have, is like it's not so much about hearing from him step by step, but hearing from him to feel, no, and sense his presence in my life.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah, you just said the most important part of why we are pursuing the ability to hear from God. And the end is always really important when we are starting because we want to know what we're leading into. Am I desiring to hear the voice of God because I think that it's going to be the missing piece of the algorithm that's going to finally bring me into success? Or do I have a desire to step into deeper relationship with the God who created me, knows me, and loves me? And so starting with the end in mind in our relationship with God, when it comes to relationship in general, is so important. And I just want to say this as well the reason that we're seated together at this table is because that is your heart and that is my heart. We're not looking to create content, we're not looking to just do something because it would be fun to do a podcast. Our desire is to be able to pursue God and to help others in any way we can in that relationship as well. And so, yeah, regardless of hooks, regardless of places of like, hey, we want you to listen, our heart and our desire is for every listener to be invited into deeper relationship with Him through the Word. And so this subject is so important for every believer and even would-be believer to know that that is the difference. It's the one of the key fundamental differences of Christianity is first of all, that there is one savior, one king who gave his life for us, that we have the ability to enter into relationship with him. But because of that, we get to have an ongoing, intimate connection with the God of the universe. I'm not aware in any other religion or faith that you get to be in relationship with the God, with the deity. I don't think that exists. And yet in Christianity, we get to and we are promised a relationship with the one who gave his life for us, not just in this life, but in eternity to come. And so we get to start now, which is the incredible thing. We get to start to develop a relationship with that God here and now in earthly finite bodies, knowing that eventually we will get to be with him face to face. But right now we get to build, we get to establish that relationship and that trust in him in a place that costs us something. And that's that's also gonna be the place that brings the greatest reward because this is the place where we can't see everything in its fullness. We don't know the beginning from the end. We don't even know what the next decision is gonna lead to, but we have access to the God who does.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Absolutely. That makes that makes so much sense. And I know this episode is gonna answer a lot of questions, selfishly for my for myself, but also for the listener. And I and I do want to say uh before we get into the meat of all this, and I'm gonna sound a little bit like I think the term in in high school that kids used to use was a brown noser. It was not a brown noser in school, but I want to say like I genuinely genuinely appreciate being able to sit across this table from you, both as a friend, but certainly as an authority in the church and a lead pastor, uh, specifically here at the gathering in the Hudson Valley. And I want to remind the listener as well, is you are a pastor. This isn't just like two bros, you know, it's kind of two bros just sitting here. We we joke and say it's the Bible bros, but it's also a lead pastor, an authority in the church, someone who has studied uh the gospel, studied this word um thoroughly for years. And there's a lot of power in that. And so I thank you for being here and offering this time to me and and to whoever's listening.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Well, thank you for that. I still feel like a youth pastor. I still feel like somebody who's just leading and and uh desiring to know more about God and certainly studying the word, but having the opportunity to do it in this context is a huge blessing for me. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Pastor Sam doesn't like when I call him an authority figure, but that's okay. That's a story for another time. Um, in all seriousness, though, the reason I bring that up, not just to thank you and show my gratitude, but also to acknowledge the fact that every single week you do at least one message or sermon, uh, obviously on Sunday, and then sometimes even on Wednesdays, unless another pastor at the church is doing that. So I want to introduce a segment into this episode, and maybe if it works, we'll do it in future episodes.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

It's kind of touching on something that you've may have missed in your previous message at the church that you want to either expand on or that you missed altogether, and you want to make sure you get that point across in relation to the message that you were sharing. So was there something in in last week's service that you wanted to share that you couldn't, or something that you didn't share enough on? You felt?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah. And I think that it ties directly into this, which is really cool as well. This past Sunday, and I know that the the episode will probably drop a little bit later, but uh in our church was Pentecost Sunday. And it's so it's the day that we recognize in Acts chapter two that the promise of the Holy Spirit comes and it falls upon the believers in the upper room. And one of the coolest parts of that is when you recognize the connection that's made to Genesis chapter 11. And Genesis chapter 11 is the story of the Tower of Babel. And so the Tower of Babel is aptly named the Tower of Babel because these individuals come together with one focus and one mindset that they are going to build something of their own hands that reaches up to the heavens. And it says that God looks at what they're doing and he recognizes to see what they're doing in verse five. And it says, The Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. And the Lord said, Behold, they are one people, and they all have one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do, and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language, so that they may not be able to understand one from another. And there's this incredible moment where this people, they're so unified that it says the Lord comes down to see what they're doing and says, We've got to do something in this regard because together they have incredible potential because they are unified. And so that speaks to the power of unity, right? But the outcome is that he gives them various languages so that one moment they're talking the same language, and the next you're talking Swahili and I'm speaking in Arabic, and it's like, what's going on here? Now, this is a kind of a crazy story, but when we take this and now we fast forward all the way to the book of Acts, chapter two, we're in a place where there are many nations coming together, speaking various languages. But when Peter stands up in boldness and preaches the message, this incredible thing happens. All of these individuals from different nations that have come together, they hear Peter speaking in their own native tongue. And so what took place in the Old Testament, because of sin, because of brokenness, that caused this disunity, this dispersion of languages. Now, all these all of these years later, because of what Jesus has done, gives them the ability to come back into a place of unity under the cross and the blood of Jesus. So unity in the flesh was going to produce something evil, and so the languages were confused. Unity under the cross of Jesus, when we are together under him and who he is, it brings the ability to walk together in this place of seeing him as the lead. And when we hear his voice together, we're able to follow him and do what he's called us to do.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Wow, so good.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

And so the church fathers would have looked back and when they saw the day of Pentecost, they're like, oh wow, this is the reversal of the Tower of Babel. And so I didn't really get to go deep into that on Sunday. But when we're talking about hearing the voice of God, we have to realize that it is his will for us to be able to hear his voice, that it's meant to bring unity, and it happens only under Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Wow. And that that does dovetail so nicely into what we're talking about. And we didn't plan that at all. We did not plan that at all. Because what it reminds me of is, you know, and maybe this is the wrong way to look at it, but sometimes I look at it like a GPS system. Maybe we'll call it the godly positioning system, if you will. You put a destination in, and that's what we do as Christians. We say, Oh, I think I want this thing. I think God's leading me in this direction. This is the outcome. This is the goal that I want to achieve. Let me plug that into my GPS and then ask God, how do I get there?

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

But that's not the destination. Unity in Christ is the destination. Presence with Him is the destination. Jesus is the destination. That's what we need to have programmed in.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah. This is where we, I think, so often talk about death to self and death to flesh. And it could be misunderstood, but it is a death to the places where we have our own ambitions, desires, and perceived outcomes, where we think this is where I'm going, this is what it has to look like, especially when it's for us and it's not for us, when it's totally exclusive to everybody else, right? God has called us to operate together as the body of Christ. And so when I get too big about what I'm supposed to be doing and what my personal purpose is and mission and all of these things to the exclusion of the people that he's put around me, I'm actually not in alignment with his will. And so all the things that we pursue in Christ should lead to unity. And if they're leading to disunity as a broad understanding, uh, then what we have to realize is that we may not be following his purpose and we have to re-evaluate our motives. Now, my exclusion to that, my disclaimer is it doesn't mean that everything we're gonna do in obedience to Christ is gonna be popular. It doesn't mean that everybody's gonna receive it because sometimes God calls us to do things and they're not always understood. But in general, there should be a unifying element that is brought about through the Holy Spirit when I'm following what he calls me to do. It may not be, it may not be attractive to the world, it may not be attractive to everybody, but it does bring a sense of the Holy Spirit working in me. And there should be something in you that responds to it as well that brings us together. And let me just sorry, just to go back real quick to the book of Genesis, because I think this is really powerful in talking about what they were able to accomplish even in the flesh.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Um, and as you're going back, by the way, why Genesis specifically? Why as far as a contextual thing? Why go back specifically to there?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

I go back to Genesis all the time because it is the microcosm of all of history found in one book. So Genesis 1, God creates. We see everything that he intended for it to be. This was perfection in creation with relationship with God, where God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden and spoke to them freely. This is the original prototype, this is the original uh relationship and desire of God.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

So Genesis can be like the lens that we look at the rest of scripture through our own lives through.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Yes, we want to see the nature of God. We start in the beginning and we start to see who he is at the very conception of mankind. This is the relationship that he desired to have. The only reason that this gets thrown off is because man chooses his own way. It's the only reason why this plan changes is because man and woman decide, well, first of all, I'm going to entertain the thoughts of a snake, a serpent, when I have God there with me. But second, I'm going to choose my own way. And so it's not very long after creation, right? So Genesis 1, God creates. Genesis 2, we see them walking in the garden. Genesis 3, we see the fall of mankind. And then we see uh Adam and Eve. They have children, they have Cain and Abel. We know that story. So Cain kills Abel. Then we have Noah. So Noah comes shortly thereafter, a few generations, corruption comes to the earth, the flood comes, God wipes out all of humanity. And then we come back to Genesis chapter 10, and the earth is a little bit full again. And once again, they're falling back into their own, their own desires, their own ability based off their own knowledge. And that's the thing is we have, if we want to really simplify this, we have two voices we could listen to. We have the voice of God, the tree of life, or we have the voice of the flesh, which is heavily influenced by the enemy, which is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Is that separate or is that in union? Meaning, is the voice of the flesh synonymous with the voice of the enemy, or are those two separate things?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

The voice of the flesh is subject to the voice of the enemy, because this world is under subjection to Satan. The authority was taken from Adam and Eve and given to Satan. And so he is the prince of the power of the air, the prince of the air, meaning that he has the ability to speak in supernatural ways that actually affect us as human beings. So he is influencing, he is pushing us always towards the flesh. He's pushing us to always question. Did God really say? Did he really say that you shouldn't eat from this tree? Because he's always questioning God's goodness. And so he wants us to also question God's goodness. This is why so many people look at God as being the angry judge, being the one that wants to punish them, being the one who's the fun police. You can't do this, you can't do this. Because the enemy has distorted the image of the perfect God who loves us so much that he literally gave his own life in the most painful death. Well, even before that, he came to this earth, he left heaven to come to earth as a human being, and then subjected himself to being rejected by his own creation, to be beaten, to be mocked and ridiculed, and to be crucified and to take on the weight of humanity. This is the true God that we serve, and yet somehow he gets maligned to be the angry judge, the angry father who wants to punish us. And so, yes, so it's it's either one or the other. I love this simplicity. Tree of life, God, it's the Holy Spirit speaking to us, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It's us pursuing our own understanding under the influence of this world that is subjected to the kingdom of darkness.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

So it's safe to say that when we're listening, it's one of two sources. And being able to discern is probably one of the most important abilities that we could cultivate.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Because it can be very easy, one to think we are hearing a voice that we assign to God and it's not actually from Him.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

And also we can think it's our own thoughts that we assume are aligned with His righteousness and His will, but they're not, which are then ultimately you're saying influenced by the enemy.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah. I mean, I can give you a quick checklist that I use when we teach about hearing from God. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

You know I love checklists, you know I love diagnostics. I already have that in our in our in our outline. So I want to hear, I want to start with that actually. Um, what is this checklist that you're referring to?

SPEAKER_00 20:24

So this is simple. Yeah, it can be brought to a more granular level, but there are three things that I want to use as a filter when I'm hearing from God and knowing that it's God speaking. So when God speaks, he speaks truth and he speaks life. All the enemy can do is counterfeit what God has said. God creates, the enemy distorts. So because the enemy is a created being, he does not have the ultimate authority to create. This bears repeating. God and Satan are not equals. God is the supreme power in the entirety of even beyond the universe. Satan was created by God. Satan cannot ever overthrow God. And he knows it. He's not under any misillusion that he's going to overthrow God. He's just trying to get as many people as he can to join into his way of thinking, which is that God is not good. So because the enemy cannot create, he distorts. So we have to know the true nature of God in order to discern what he's saying, or else it's a counterfeit. Okay. Three things.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

That's one. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So know the nature of God. If what you are hearing violates the nature of God, then you have to question the source and legitimacy of it. How do we know the nature of God? Well, the best and the easiest way is to know the God of the Bible. That's why I start in Genesis chapter one. That's why I start in seeing that He created us and He created us as a Good and a loving father. That's why throughout scripture you can see so many instances of God's judgment because humanity has fallen short of his glory. But interwoven through these stories of God's judgment, because mankind has rejected him and engaged in sin, there are these beautiful promises that God speaks to his children through the prophets, which is the Holy Spirit speaking through them, where he comes and he says, Listen, you've walked away, you've fallen short, you have followed your own ambitions and your own desires, and yet there is going to be a day where I am going to come and I am going to restore you. This is found throughout the book of Isaiah. This is found in one of my favorite ones. It's found in uh Jeremiah chapter 33. We find it in Isaiah 30. Um, but uh Jeremiah 32, verse 36 says that now, therefore, says the Lord to the God of Israel concerning this city that was given into the king of Babylon, I'm gonna gather you together from all countries, I'm gonna bring you back to this place, and I'm gonna make them dwell in safety, and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear me forever, for their own good and for the good of the children afterwards. I'm gonna re-establish my everlasting covenant with them. He says in Jeremiah chapter 33, he says, Call to me and answer, and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Like these are the places of the nature of God that we don't tend to see. And I think it's primarily because we know that we're deserving of judgment. When I look at myself in the mirror, I'm very rarely thinking, Wow, Sam, you're awesome. You did so many great things this week. And when I say rarely, that never happens. I'm looking at myself like, man, you screwed up again. Like you had this opportunity and you missed it. You didn't do this as good as you should have. Like, I know that I am deserving of judgment. And yet God continually keeps coming back and telling me, this is who I made you to be. And as a loving father, even in your places of failure, I continue to love you. And this is only through Jesus. But Isaiah chapter 30, verse 18, therefore the Lord God waits to be gracious to you, and therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you. For the Lord is a God of justice, and blessed are those who wait upon him. So, rule number one, filter number one. Does it violate the nature of God? Now, when we go from the Old Testament to the New Testament, John 3:16, many of us could quote this for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever would believe in him would not perish and would not die, but have eternal life. So when we look at the nature of God from Genesis all the way to Revelation, in the midst of all of the judgment, in the midst of all of the chaos, what is God doing? He's bringing his people back to him because he loves us and he wants to be with us. So we have to know the nature of God, and the best way to do that is through scripture.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

I was gonna I was just gonna say, I know I know you said there's levels to this, and we could get granular with it, yeah, but it goes back to the fact that you have to be in the word. Yeah, you got to study scripture, you can't just read it for the sake of getting in a certain number of pages. It's like get into the word, literally meditate on it, chew on it, apply it to your life so that you know how God has worked and how he is working in real time, so that you can recognize his nature in a situation, in a circumstance.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yep. God is good, he is a good father. Start there. And if the voice that you are hearing or thinking comes into a place of discrepancy with the nature of God, then you know that it's not him.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

And this goes back to uh one of the episodes that we did on how to pray. And you brought up the Our Father, the Lord's Prayer. Yeah, I was thinking about this this past week. I was like, there feel it feels like there should be like 30 minutes between each line of the Lord's Prayer. Yes. You know, it's like our Father, yeah, 30 minutes meditate on that. Yeah, you know, like that that puts us in that posture, and I want to talk about posture after after you finish with these three points, but it puts us in that posture and recognition of who he is, his nature, and then everything flows from that.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yep, you're so right. I think that what you said is spot on. We should slow down when we pray that prayer. Like you said, our father. We as humanity get to call the perfect, infinite, omnipotent God our Father. Who is mine that who is man that you are mindful of him? Like this is what David says like, who am I? Who is man? You created us just a little lower than the angels, and your thoughts towards us. Uh Psalm 139, it speaks about the thoughts of God being endless towards us. If I could count the sand on the beach, then I would be able to understand the amount of thoughts that God has towards me. So we could spend all day just on the nature of God. Yeah. But if you want to know what God is saying, you have to take the time to understand who He is.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

So step one is nature. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

And this would be the same in any relationship. You know, if somebody calls claiming to be my wife, and they start saying things that my wife would never say, it'd be like, uh, who is this?

SPEAKER_03 27:38

So and that comes with a relationship too. I mean, I know your nature now because I've become friends with you.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

And so I don't need to constantly relearn necessarily. And this is a little different with God because we're growing, and there's always depth to understanding him and his ways. And even though we can't and it transcends understanding, there still is that that study and that process. But it is something that, correct me if I'm wrong, should be somewhat second nature, should become part of what you already recognize as a default, is who he is. Yeah, because that is what informs everything else. So step one, actively understanding his nature, knowing his nature, yes, which then you do that often and frequently enough, that just becomes a default recognition for you. Absolutely. Which probably brings us to step two, which is it does not violate his word.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

So it can't violate his nature, and it can't violate his word. So again, this is where we know scripture. This is why we as Protestants, right, and that can encapsulate of quite a few denominations, but that believe in sola scriptura, which is the belief that the scripture is the authoritative word of God that transcends any earthly figure, it transcends any church father, it transcends the Pope, it transcends any tradition in the church. This is the foundation in the bedrock.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

But that doesn't discount early church father teachings or things that are like the church fathers.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Okay. But if there was something that they said that I perceived as uh violating scripture, then I'm probably wrong because there's a reason why they're the church fathers. So I gotta go back and understand what they were truly saying. Um, but they're not gonna say anything that's gonna violate scripture, but still scripture is the highest authority. Gotcha. And whatever religious leader there is, let's say the Pope, for instance, if he's following Scripture as he should be, then yes, he's an authority, but it's still subject to the ultimate word of God. So that's number one nature, number two, the word, which means you've got to know the word. You've got to know what he has said. And specifically, and I would just say this in a place of uh just practicality, what you want to do is you want to be able to understand the New Testament uh of what God is saying. Uh the Old Testament is not done away with by any stretch of the imagination, but we want to understand things through the new covenant, through the blood of Jesus. And so, does it violate anything that God has said in the New Testament scripture? We also want to go back and understand the Old Testament, it just has to be in its full context because the Old Testament, absent from the new covenant, is incomplete. Jesus came to fulfill the old covenant. So the old covenant, the old testament is great, but it's incomplete without Jesus. So, does it violate scripture? Does it violate what scripture teaches us? And not just one piece of scripture, but scripture in context, scripture with the understanding of what is being said and why. So the nature, the word, and then the third thing that I would say is really important is that when we are hearing from God, once again, unity in the body of Christ is so important. We should have brothers and sisters, leaders and teachers that we're able to come and talk to that are able to help confirm what we're hearing and what we're believing. Because we're not meant to be on an island all by ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

It's just what we call wise counsel.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yes. So you want to make sure that when you're hearing something, if I hear God say something to me, and it is so beyond the ability to understand because it seems so out there, um, I'm gonna need to be able to sit down with some people that I really trust that know the Lord and are filled with the Holy Spirit that know scripture to be able to talk about it. Because the Holy Spirit works within us all. And in relationship, I don't think that I can get too far off because in my church, for instance, if I started teaching some doctrine that was way out there, I would have no shortage of people at my door coming to be like, hey Sam, what's the scripture say about that? What does the church history say about this thing? You gotta be careful here. And if we are so about myself, my own ministry, my own ideas that I can't listen to anybody else, then I'm in danger of being misled. And this is where wrong doctrines come in so often. This is where wrong theology starts to emerge because I think I've got the answer. And everyone else is like, uh, I don't know. That doesn't, that doesn't, something's not sitting right within me. Um, and so that's why we need community as well.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Can I ask you a personal question? And this is this is for everybody that's come up to me about this podcast to say, we get to see a really cool, intimate side of Pastor Sam that we don't necessarily get to see because you're normally on stage in front of 500 people at a service, right? How do you balance who you are as a pastor, the authority that you have, you being the wise counsel in a lot of circumstances with the interpersonal relationships that you have, whether it's family, friends, because I assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, it might be difficult to balance or to compartmentalize different aspects of who you are between pastor, between father, between friend, between son. How do you balance that?

SPEAKER_00 33:17

I think the way that it's best balanced is by understanding that God gives us relationships in certain contexts for a reason. And there is the highest level of intimacy that I have with my wife, where she gets to know everything and there's nothing hidden from her. There's the greatest responsibility as a father to my children that I have to take seriously and I have to put as a priority in my life. And then from there, there are various levels amongst staff, amongst board, amongst the leadership within the church, amongst congregants, and then friends as well. Each has its own different uh place in my life that God has given me as a gift. And there are certain conversations that I can have with a close friend that I can't just have with a congregant. And there are certain conversations that I can have with a board member that I can't just have with a friend. And so knowing those different areas and why they exist, knowing the purpose behind them, is the best way to be able to do that. And that's something that I think is learned over time, but also Holy Spirit discernment. And that is where, in any given conversation, I will feel a green light, a yellow light, or a red light of yeah, you can have this conversation, go down this road. Be careful that this is not really something like we can talk about this in general, but without specifics or a red light. Like, no, this is not the time or place because something might happen and I might just want to vent and I feel like it's a safe place. And the Holy Spirit's like, this is not this is not the time or place for that. So becoming so familiar with these three things that I talked about his nature, his word, and being able to do it in community, that you I don't have to sit there and go through the checklist every time. I've become so accustomed to how he speaks to me that it just in an instant I know, okay, yes or no, more so than not.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Do you ever get uncomfortable or frustrated when those lines are blurred? Meaning you and I have become friends. First and foremost, I now look at you as my pastor. No offense. You've been a great friend, but I guess I take that, you know. And even me, just as a personal anecdote, is like I'll have things that come to mind that I would want to go to for wise counsel. But at the same time, it feels like it might blur the line of friendship where you know, let's say we're on the golf course, we're friends, we're just two buddies golfing, yeah, right? Sometimes it's hard to separate that with who you are as a pastor and wanting to seat that wise counsel but not cross that line because it might blur the line of friendship. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

It does. And so what I would say to that is that I never hold anybody to that standard in terms of our relationship, in terms of friends who are also part of the church. Like, if there ever comes a point where I'm like, hey, I don't got the bandwidth for that for that right now. Like, I don't have, I just need to be able to kind of disconnect a little bit. I'd love to talk to you about that later. I'll say that. And a true friendship is able to handle that. Um, but for the most part, ministry has become the overarching part of my life. And so there are very few times where I don't want to talk about something. Like I will talk about scripture. There is never a time in which someone comes to me, what do you think the Bible says about that? It's either I believe it says this or I don't know, let me go find out. But there's never a time where I feel like that line gets blurred because before anything else, I'm a Christian. Pastor or not, this is my heartbeat. This is what I have given my life to. So I never want my friends or even people in the congregation to feel that they can't come to me with something, but I also have to have the ability to say, hey, just not right at this exact moment. Like I need to spend some time with my kids. Yeah. Or I just need to be able to process through something. So I'm not ever really concerned about that. And I would say in our church, we have so many amazing people that would probably err on the side of caution in not wanting to bring something to me to burden to burden me with it. Um, and I I appreciate that, but I want people to know that they can come and talk to me.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

So I I don't I don't fear that too much.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Good. Yeah, and and and that question came out of a good place because I I really see you, and I'm sure a lot of people relate to this is anybody who's met you and knows you personally, you're like a lighthouse, you know. Like people are drawn to you, they want that that wise counsel, but also Sam's not I know it's not just your personal opinion, but it's filtered through the Holy Spirit, and you're just such a godly man and you're humble, you're easy to talk to. You are a lighthouse for people, especially at your church. And so I think a lot of people feel that draw to you, but also there might be like I'm I'm kind of articulating this discomfort in in actually drawing closer to you, if that makes sense, yeah, because of those lines that we we just discussed, and not to beat a dead horse here, but I don't see myself in in any of those ways.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Like, uh not to say that I I can't recognize what God has done in my life and where he's brought me, but to me, like I don't I don't think there's any part of me that's like, oh yeah, I'm I've I've made it to a certain point where I can't have any conversation with any anybody, but I appreciate those things. Um but I think authenticity is the most important element that we have in terms of our walk with God and our walk with people, and we've got to be who God made us to be. We've got to be real.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Do you but do you think any of those boundaries should be held? Meaning, is there ever a situation where a friend might come to you and you might suggest, let's say, that they talk to, let's say, another pastor or someone else who can who can guide them because you don't want it to necessarily blur lines, or is anything goes for anybody at any time for you?

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, that's where discernment comes in because we have an awesome staff, and there are times where people will come to me and maybe not even in a friendship, but they're like, hey, I want to talk about this. And I'm like, you know who would be great? Pastor Rachel, Pastor Jeff, Pastor Christian, Pastor Sanjay. Like, go talk to them because this is an area in which they excel in, and they're gonna give you really good counsel in this area. Um, the only place that I think a line could get blurred, and this can can tie into what we're talking about, so I don't mind going down this road, is when it comes to authority, I think authority within the body of Christ really does matter. I don't walk around demanding that I have a level of respect or that people view me in this authoritative way in general, but in a spiritual context, there is a need for spiritual authority. And so if somebody comes to me with something and I'm not just speaking to them as a friend, but I'm speaking to them as a pastor, I do have an expectation that they're gonna hear what I have to say and that they're going to receive it as an authority. And that can be uncomfortable for people who have been in church environments where that's been abused, where the authority figure has demanded something and they've been wrong and they've gone over the top. But when authority is in relationship and it's in health with proper boundaries, we have to look at authority in our lives as something that is God given. And then it's up to us whether or not we're gonna receive it. But if we're following God, we should be, we should be willing to receive correction. We should be willing to receive instruction. I need to be under authority. We all do. And the only place where those lines can get blurred is that now we've become friends and it's lessened your understanding of my place within the church. And that needs to be upheld. And so, in the same way, when we're listening to the voice of God, which is the ultimate authority, if we're not willing to listen to what he's saying as the authority, then we are not going to steward well his voice in our lives. And so we can't go to God as if what he's saying is a suggestion. Like, God, what should I do in this situation? I get a strong sense of what he's calling me to do, and then I'm like, all right, I'll weigh that out. I'll see if I think that that's good. As if he's just somebody else. Yeah, he is the authority, and so if we want to hear from him, we have to view him like that, and then to handle his word, what he speaks to us correctly.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

So, to your point on all of that, it does tie into your third filter, if you will, of wise counsel, community. And what comes to mind for me is that wise counsel doesn't necessarily start or stop at a pastor. You should surround yourself with friends and people who are your wise counsel. And the biggest shift for me over the past 12 to 18 months has been in my personal life with certain friends where I realize that it is so important that you surround yourself with godly people who are seeking righteousness, who have unspoken expectations of you that are aligned with God's will. Yeah. What I mean by that is it's it's not that I want friends who expect something from me, but they expect more of me. I like that. Because I have friends still that don't expect anything of me. They don't care what do I achieve or don't achieve, and that's nice, that's great. And this is more from a worldly perspective. They don't care how much money I make or how great I am at certain things, but that's not motivating at all. No. And now when you apply that to our walk as Christians, as disciples, you want someone who's going to expect obedience, who's going to see you and not even have to say something. And this is what I get from you too, just personally talking here is like when I'm around you, even just hanging out or on the golf course, it's like I feel that righteous expectation in a really beautiful way. And that makes me want to be better. And that's that's the power of surrounding yourself with wise counsel and community.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah, the people that we surround ourselves should also be under authority themselves. And as part of that, then yeah, expectation is beautiful because it's under the context of who we are in our relationship and our pursuit of God. And when I walk in pursuit of God, it gives me an expectation for my life. And we should be seeing in others what they cannot see themselves, and what we see in them should be greater than they have the ability to see for themselves. And so I love that. Relationships and friendships that have good and I would say holy expectations. Yeah, because this is who God created you to be. You may not see it, but I certainly do. And I'm gonna hold you to that level, but not just hold you to that level, I want to help.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

And the most important place this shows up is in marriage. I find that far too often a spouse will expect the other spouse to, let's say, be a good husband first, or a good dad first, or a good friend first, and not a good child of God first. And so they put these other roles on an altar for their spouse. Yeah. And it's actually doing that spouse a disservice because if they had that even unspoken expectation, driven out of love and compass and compassion, it would improve their spouse's ability to either be the leader or to be the woman who's submitting only to the man who is who has surrendered his life to Christ and is living obediently. That cohesive relationship of unspoken expect of expectation in Christ is what I think is the biggest driving force, specifically in a marriage, to mobilize both parties towards God.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

That's an awesome point. I I definitely agree with you. And I just I'm kind of just digesting what you just said. Because if you have an expectation of this is who you should be, but no expectation of how you become that thing, it's very incomplete. And if I want you to be there for me and to fulfill these needs, but I don't make space, time, or encouragement for you to first become who you are as a son or a daughter, then the order is really uh it's out of it's out of alignment with who God calls us to be. And so I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Absolutely. All right, so let's reel us back in. We went we went somewhere very important, obviously. Let's put a bow on the the three points you just made. So you kind of gave us three foundational elements to start with when we think about hearing from God. Yeah, number one was know his nature. Yep. This comes through. Number two is studying and knowing scripture so that you can test things against scripture. Yeah. And then three, wise counsel. On this topic of hearing from God, what do you think the most common question is that Christians ask, but it's actually the wrong question to ask?

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Um, is God speaking to me, which would be the wrong question because of what Jesus says in John chapter 10, verse 27. Uh, he said, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. Let's just stay with that one verse very simply. My sheep know my voice. The vast majority of examples that Jesus gives are agricultural, or even in this could be under the umbrella of agricultural, but when it comes to being a shepherd and the sheep, the sheep know my voice and they follow me. If they hear the voice of another, they will not follow. So is God speaking to me? If you are a believer in Jesus, if you have received him as your Lord and your savior, he has become your king, he has become your shepherd, then yes, he is speaking to you. Point blank, yes. So then how do I know the voice of God? And I guess the the question that would go along with that, which is not a wrong question, but it's something that can become a disqualifier for a lot of people. Well, what if it's just me? What if the voice that I hear speaking is just my own voice? And because of the fear of missing it, I don't engage because I'm afraid that I'm gonna be deceived by my own ambitions and my own desires. And so this is a point in time where we have put too high of an estimation on our ability and too low of an understanding of God's ability. And this is so natural. We become the center of our own universe. Everything we think of, everything that we feel and we experience, it orbits around me. And so I think what I'm able to do, what I'm able to achieve is based off of what I have done or what I haven't done. Instead of recognizing that we are a very, very, very small, not insignificant, but comparatively speaking, small piece of the entirety of God's plan, and that his ability to speak to me is not limited to my ability to hear. My ability to hear and to discern has to first be based out of my submission to him and his omnipotent, his all-powerful, and his omniscient, all-knowing nature. So if God created me, if he designed me, if he created me with a purpose and with a plan before the conception, before I was ever even born in my mother's womb, in Jeremiah chapter 1, verse 5, that's what he says. Then I also have to trust that that God knows how to speak to me. And also, the God who created humanity, and we saw this in the Tower of Babel, and created all these different languages, which now includes over 6,000 languages in the world. Do I think that God can only speak to me in one specific way? And is it the same exact way as someone else said that they heard from him? Like that would be incredibly limiting to the God of the universe. So can I hear from God? Yes. How do I know if it's him or me? Run it through the filter of his nature, of his word, and through community, but then immerse yourself in it. Jump into the reality of what he's called you into, and do not allow fear to be the voice that speaks louder than the voice of God.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

So this sounds to me like the goal is to tune into his frequency. Like there's this heavenly cadence, this divine rhythm, if you will, God's frequency that we need to tune into.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:11

And the analogy that always comes to mind is radio stations. Yeah. If we think of, let's say, the sound of life, which locally is 89.7, those numbers are a frequency that you tune into. Yeah. That frequency, no matter where you are, is playing right now in the airwaves. Yeah. It's not until you tune into that specific freeze frequency that you can then decipher and interpret the data that's coming through that frequency. Yeah. So the goal is to tune into God's frequency so that we can then interpret what it is that He's already speaking to us.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Is that and that frequency has been purchased? That frequently had to be frequency had to be established. It had to be bought with a price. And so the frequency of Jesus as the shepherd who is speaking, giving us the ability to listen, was bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus. And this is why I continue to return back to the fact that God is bigger than you. God is greater than you. And his investment in you is bigger than your ability to follow your own devices and to screw it up. It doesn't mean you can't. It just means that he has done everything and continues to do everything in order to draw you into his good purpose. I am a firm believer that far too often we think too highly of my inability instead of thinking about his amazing ability to do what he wants to do.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

I always say that we should set goals so big that we can't help but to give him credit when we achieve those goals. I love that. And that what you just said reminds me is like he starts where I end, which is very short distance. I can only go very short distance, and then God takes over. Yeah. And yeah, so that that's just I think far too often we we set goals. One, maybe in from a fleshly nature, from worldly desire, but certainly limited based on our own capacity and understanding of our own ability, not on what God's capable of.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

It says that he who started a good work in us is faithful to bring it to completion, which means that he is the one who began it. At the moment that we said yes to Jesus, we submitted to his plan. He began that good work in us the exact moment that we gave him permission. And when we have given him permission to do and work within us, then we have to trust that he is the one that's going to bring it to completion. And the moment that I slip into my own strength, my own ability, my own uh desire to make this work is where I disconnect from the source of his grace. And that's where so many of us try, fall short, go into condemnation, and then make a judgment that it doesn't work, which is just crazy. And it's just the ability of the enemy to hijack what God wants to do. So if God says, I want to speak to you, my sheep hear my voice, and they're gonna follow me. The enemy comes in to say, Was that really his voice? Was that really him speaking? That sounds a lot like you. Well, guess what? It's allowed to sound a lot like you when it's being spoken into your spirit. There is this cohesive nature of his spirit and our spirit that comes together and now produces something that is supernatural.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

What is that something then? When you say there's this something that's supernatural because his spirit and our spirit are coming into unity, what is what does that actually mean? If we were able to, I know we can't hold it in our hands, but if we were to kind of put a tangible box around what you're talking about, what does that look like practically?

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Romans 8 26 says, likewise, the spirit, who is the Holy Spirit, he helps us in our weakness, for we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the spirit himself intercedes with us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the spirit, because the spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. His spirit, when we invite Jesus into our lives, now has access to our spirit. And what happens is that the part of us that is connecting to a heavenly reality that we cannot see is now in partnership. We think about it as a business partnership. Both of us bring something to the table. Well, in this case, the Holy Spirit brings the power of God, and what we bring is a yieldedness for our physical bodies to now be used for his purpose. So it's all his anyway, but we're actually stepping into a place where now I've said yes to him, and now he has the ability to use me to interact with a physical world and to bring his kingdom into a natural and a tangible expression for others to be able to see it. Makes sense. So what's produced from the spirit and the natural is now a life submitted to Jesus, where I now walk in obedience to what he's called me to do. And now, as I walk in obedience to what he's called me to do, I can create with him, I can influence for him, I can be an example of his goodness, I could teach his word, and I can be an evangelist that brings us into the kingdom. Those things do not happen in the kingdom of God without the spirit coming inside of us and us walking in partnership together. And everything that we can accomplish that is of any value has to be done through the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Could tell you where I've gone wrong personally, is I find myself wanting to hear from God to know the map, to know the checklist, to know all of the steps needed when really I probably should be asking God, where are you? and send me there, wherever that is, however or whatever I need to do to get there, yeah, it's about presence and not information. Yep. But at the same time, I do know that he has revealed action or steps for me to take. However, it's usually just the next step.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

Why do you think God does not say, hey, you're gonna do A, B, and C, and it's gonna lead to X, Y, and Z? He's like, no, just do this thing that seems really scary, maybe, and really weird, and it goes everything against what you think you know or what you've been trained in. But here, go.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

That's the only thing that shifts us out of our self-reliance. Yeah. Because if we are trusting him for something that is way crazier than we would think we should do, now we've stepped into a place where faith is required. And it reminds me of of this analogy, and I'm and I'm sure that we've all experienced it on some level. When you're going on a trip and a longer trip, and there's a kid in the car, what are they asking? Are we there yet? How long till we get there? Like, what do what's what's it gonna take for me to get from where I am to the destination? And that's what we're doing with God. We're like, God, are we there yet? Like, what am I supposed to do? Like, we've been in this car forever. Surely there has to be something I can do to accelerate this process. And as a dad, I'm like, you'll know when we get there. Like, do you trust me? I'm operating this vehicle, I know where we're going. We're gonna get to where we're supposed to go. So, you asking me, Are we there yet? Not helpful. Doesn't matter. Trust me. Trust me, trust me, trust me. And I think sometimes we're like, God, I want the next five steps laid out in front of me. And he's like, Do you trust me? Because we could either worry about every next step that it's gonna take to get there, or we could enjoy the time together.

SPEAKER_03 58:02

I also don't think, or I should say, I also think that he doesn't reveal that to us because if we knew what we were gonna have to go through to get where he wants us to be, yeah, we probably wouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

Very valid.

SPEAKER_03 58:14

The tragedy, the trauma, the death, the sickness, the trials, the tribulations are all part of that divine plan, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Very valid. Um, but he's not overwhelmed by any of those things. He knows that we can be. But the primary responsibility that we have and that he desires for us is to be building that connection as we go. Like, even if what's ahead on the road is going to be a tornado, a wildfire, a flash flood, whatever it is, when he's the one who is who is leading, those things do not concern him in the slightest. So if they're not concerning him, they should not concern us. The concern that we should have is am I taking the time to grow deeper in relationship and trust with him? Because nothing is too big for God to be able to lead us through.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

So you just made a good, a very good point that I often fall short with, is knowing that it's never outside of God's control or ability, but my human instinctual response, like that's that's gonna be tricky, that's gonna be difficult, and having that resistance. And what I've realized is that that's gone down as I've been more obedient and stepping out in faith, and I see it in other people. I recognize the people that hear from God the clearest and most frequently are the ones in closest proximity to him, but they manifest or show a manifestation of the peace that he's given us. So you see these people who are just it doesn't matter what's going on around them, they're not that they're on phase, but they operate in this peace that transcends understanding. They have this joy and this lightness about them despite what's going on in their external circumstance. And that can only come supernaturally through proximity with God.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think that once again, going back to the garden, God spent that time with Adam and Eve in the garden in relationship, and that hasn't changed. God's the same yesterday, today, and forever. So his desire is to be present with us, and he's the same God in the garden as he was in the boat when the disciples are freaking out. Jesus, don't you care that we're gonna drown? And he's like, guys, honestly, you've been with me this long. Where's your faith? Gets up, speaks to the storm, everything's calm, and they're amazed. Our flesh is so fickle, our flesh is so subjected to this world that we are so opposed to discomfort and uncertainty, and God is not phased by it at all. And in fact, if we will submit those places to him, he will use them to help strengthen us to be able to know and to discern his will, his voice, what he's saying, and to be able to walk into our purpose. And that's where Romans 12 comes in. And this is like the the verse of my life, my ministry, um, and this podcast. We've talked about it so often, Romans 12, 2. Do not be conformed any longer longer to the ways of this world, to the thinking of this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, so that in doing so you will be able to discern what is the will of God, what is his perfect will for us. And so that follows verse one, which is to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice. The more we're willing to lay down us, the more we're able to receive what is him. The more we're willing to lay down our fear of I'm gonna miss it and I'm not gonna hear him right, and I don't know if it's him, and I don't know it's me. And the more that I trust in his ability and surrender myself to that, the more that I'm going to be able to think what he wants me to think and to discern what he's saying. And then the most important and the most difficult thing comes in. Now I have to be obedient to it. Now I actually have to do something with what he's called me to do. And that is the next piece of how do I hear the voice of God? Be obedient to what he's called you to do. How do I hear the voice of God? He tells you to love, love your neighbor as yourself. Are you being obedient to that? He tells you to operate in forgiveness. Are you being obedient to that? He tells you to seek first the kingdom of heaven and all of its righteousness and everything else will come after that. Are you being obedient to that? Because if we don't steward the simple things that he calls us to do, then how do we expect that he's going to call us into deeper things and greater things?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

And this is also uh circular, it's not just linear, right? Meaning, and I have Vaughn here, I was looking into Ezekiel 12, 2 actually. It says, Son of man, you dwell in the midst of a rebellious house, who have eyes to see but see not, who have ears to hear but hear not, for they are a rebellious house. And what that says to me is that hearing from God often precedes obedience, but then obedience begets our ability to hear from God. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

No, you're absolutely right. There's this beautiful um let's say dynamic in the kingdom that is obedience and faith, trust, obedience, faith, and trust. And it's meant to continue in every area of our life. And what I found just very um transparently is that there are certain seasons where I am more willing to step out in faith and trust than others, and those are the moments where I feel the most engaged and the most closely connected to the heart of God. And then circumstances will come and situations will come, and I'll get beat down, and I'll get beat up, and I'll get a little bit gun shy because I know that there's a cost associated with it. But as long as I am kind of staying on the outskirts, like God's called me to do something, and I'm a little bit hesitant to do it, those are the moments where I feel the most disconnected and where I've made room for other things to come in. Places of temptation, places of compromise, places of self-gratification, in terms of I want to build up my own self-image, my own whatever, my own kingdom. But as soon as I'm like, okay, God, I I repent and I hear what you're saying to me, I'm gonna do that thing, it's where that synergy comes back in, that connection, that relationship comes back in, and I feel like I couldn't be closer.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

And so I I actually need to be looking for those opportunities more often than I tend to do in my own flesh to look for where's the place where I can say yes. I was in church not too long ago, and um it just felt like God said, Hey, bless this person. And I was like, Okay, this is a little bit painful, like this is this hurts a little bit, but I did it. Um, and then another time, just something very simple. And like, I'm sure that those moments have come and I've ignored them and seemingly nothing's happened. But in the moments where I've said yes right afterwards, there's such an excitement in me because I know I've given him something to work with.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:23

So, as a pastor, you obviously have some like special ability to hear from God better than other people, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

Absolutely. As soon as you get ordained, you get a special number, it's like a special connection. Yeah, not so much, yeah. But I would say that if you don't have that relationship and you step into ministry, man, you're in trouble. Like you should not be entering into a place of leading others and ministering if you do not know what the voice of God sounds like in your own life. And so, if anyone listening is an aspiring pastor or leader in any context, this is what you got to get before anything else. Learn how to discern the voice of God for your life before you try to lead anybody else. Else because if you're not being led, you're gonna really suck at leading others.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

I love that you just brought that up because one of the things I have on our outline for today is about impartation. And I'm gonna leave people with a little bit of a cliffhanger here. And what's so interesting, not interesting, I expect this now, is I was praying about this episode today because I wanted to start practicing a little bit more of what you preach here. It's like, let's pray about what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

And I knew this was gonna be a two-part episode. Yeah, and here we are, we're over the hour. We only got to about 25% of what I had planned for us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

Welcome to my every message I ever try to preach.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

But it's it's just confirmation that we're talking about the right topic right now and that it's gonna be fruitful for the listener. And I also want to encourage you, if you are listening to this and you want to go deeper with us, is one, make sure you subscribe to the Fifth Gospel Podcast on your favorite platform and like it too. If there's a way for you to like it on YouTube, leave a comment, ask us questions because a lot of what we do talk about obviously comes through prayer, but it comes through conversations with like the men's cohort or people that we know personally who are like, hey, we'd like that you talk about this, or we have this question. You know, a lot of people who may not have direct access to you, like I do right here across this table, you're like, Hey, can you ask him about this? And that's how we kind of come up with these outlines. So, all that to say, please engage with the podcast, but also take what you listen to, what you hear about you know, Pastor Sam talking about and apply it to your life. Like ask yourself when you when you hear something that resonates with your spirit, ask yourself, how can I apply this to my life within the next 24 hours? You know, and I also uh we miss this sometimes, but encourage anybody who's local or wants to travel to the Hudson Valley, make sure you check out the gathering uh here in Poughkeepsie where uh Pastor Sam is the lead pastor there and does an amazing job. Um, so this will be part one of a part two.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

Can we add something to the to the call to action? Oh, of course, like subscribe, follow, share all the things. Yeah, and if you want one of these t-shirts, comment t-shirt because we will be giving away a a free fifth gospel t-shirt because I'd love to be able to start to see some of these come up. So if anybody has a desire to do that, comment t-shirt. I would like to start giving these out.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

Pastor Sam has officially become a content creator in this moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:11

The shift just happened. You just saw it, witnessed it live right in that moment.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Yeah, watch out for the merch drop. So I want to end this. Um, we kind of teased a little bit about impartation. We're gonna talk more about maybe some of the supernatural aspects to hearing from God as a little bit of a cliffhanger here to leave people with. What is, and I don't know if this is the right word, but what is the most esoteric or supernatural take you have on Holy Spirit, hearing from God, everything we talked about, not practical, not step by step. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

What's one of the most significant moments in the entirety of my life, and I may say the most significant moment of my life, was laying in my bed in LaGrangeville, and I just said, God, I want to feel your presence. And I felt in that moment an embrace from God. I felt the presence of God internally more than I felt any other sensation in my entire life. It was the literal tangible presence of God, and I think back to the Old Testament where they build the tabernacle, they build the tabernacle in the wilderness according to what God told them to do, and the fire comes from heaven and the presence of God fills the tabernacle. We see it again in the temple that happens later on in Solomon's temple. I felt the power of God, the Holy Spirit come in, and I do believe that that is once again not a unique thing. That if we ask and we seek to know him more, not because it's gonna make us feel good, but because he loves us and he wants to be where we are, that we will be able to hear his voice and to know when he's in the room.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

That's beautiful. And we're not gonna give any more to the listener because you have to come back for part two. Uh, Sam, if you could, let's pray us out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

Absolutely. Lord Jesus, we just thank you again for being able to talk about who you are, your nature and your love for us. And I thank you that everything that we've discussed and everything we continue to discuss and every word that we read in scripture, it is through the lens of the sacrifice of Jesus, of his life being given for us, of your death and your resurrection, Lord Jesus. And I thank you, Father, that through this episode, through these words and through the reading of your word and our personal devotion, that we would develop a greater hunger and a greater understanding of the incredible love that you have for us. And so whoever is listening, wherever they are right now, I pray that you would be with them in this moment, that as they ask, as they seek, and as they knock, that you would respond because you are so faithful to do so. We love you and praise you and thank you in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:52

Amen.