God Has Been Speaking... You've Just Been Missing It

Can you really hear God's voice?

In Part 2 of this conversation, Anthony Serino and Pastor Sam Edwards explore what Scripture teaches about hearing God, discerning His voice, and growing in intimacy with Him.
They discuss why God often speaks through a gentle whisper instead of dramatic moments, how to distinguish His voice from your own thoughts, and the biblical guardrails that keep Christians grounded in truth. You'll also learn practical ways to remove distractions, cultivate the right posture, and recognize the different ways God communicates through the Holy Spirit.
If you've ever wondered why God feels silent or questioned whether you're hearing Him correctly, this episode offers practical, biblical guidance rooted in Scripture.

In this episode:
* How to discern God's voice
* Why intimacy matters more than techniques
* Elijah and the gentle whisper
* Moses and God's presence
* Hearing, seeing, feeling, and knowing
* Conviction vs. condemnation
* Why obedience increases clarity
* What to do when God seems silent
If this conversation encourages you, subscribe for more biblical conversations on discipleship, spiritual growth, and living out your faith.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Whose Voice Is It?
01:04 Why Hearing God Feels Difficult
04:33 God Always Initiates
08:57 Tuning Into God's Voice
12:51 Elijah and the Gentle Whisper
15:56 Humility, Hunger & Posture
26:24 Pursuing God's Presence
36:55 Different Ways God Speaks
43:52 Relationship Over Religion
50:26 Pastor Sam's Process
53:42 Practical Steps to Hear God
01:00:26 Symbols & Discernment
01:03:45 Conviction vs. Condemnation
01:07:51 Peace as a Guide
01:13:09 When God Feels Silent
01:16:23 Prayer for Healing

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

So, how do we decipher, like, what's God's voice? What's my own voice? What is the enemy's voice?

SPEAKER_05 0:06

For me, I know he's always right there, ready to speak. The only hindrance to that is whether or not I'm in the military speaker.

SPEAKER_04 0:13

I think one of the third lines I've found in scripture is people who heard from God are the most likely to act on the moment they heard.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

If there are 6,000 languages being spoken on the earth, then why would we think that God will only speak in one way to everybody? Lord Jesus, I just thank you for today. I thank you for this time together. We thank you for your word and for the fact that you are always speaking to us. And so I pray that as we have this conversation today, that our eyes would be fixed on you, that our hearts would be open to the fact that you are speaking to us, that you love us and you desire to lead us and guide us. And so we thank you for all that you want to do. We give you control in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Amen. Amen. Man, the question that everybody asks as a Christian, especially, and I've asked myself this many times, is how do you hear from God? And I think it's the question that we often have the most trouble answering. But in a lot of ways, it's a it's has a simple answer. And that's kind of a paradox to how we're gonna address the topic because this is a part two of a conversation that we started uh our last episode on how to hear from God, and we just scratched the surface. So I think this is something that can be as simple as it is complex. And I want to start and preface this episode um with being a little transparent here. Well, a lot transparent is this topic is something that overwhelms me the most personally in my walk because it feels very cumbersome to look at my relationship with God as something I have to figure out if that makes sense. And very often it feels like whether it's my faith in general or my walk with God in general, or even a specific topic like how to hear from him, it's like I'm doing this puzzle upside down and I'm missing some of the pieces. And I can see the box, like I can see what the image is supposed to look like when it's done. I can see the glory of heaven, I can see him, I can see Jesus in it. But at the same time, on this side of heaven, I have to put all these pieces together and I can't even really see the image.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

And then on to top it all off, it's like, oh, well, there's a spiritual realm and there's demons actually like stealing my pieces and distorting them at the same time, and I got to combat that. And it's like I have to figure all these things out. And so it can feel very overwhelming. And last thing I'll say before we get into this is this is probably one of the only episodes that I'm actually okay with leaving people with more questions than answers. Yeah. Because I think the theme that we'll tease out here is that I think far too often people don't ask the right questions. So if we can leave people with the right questions to ask, yeah, that'll naturally lead into hearing from God.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

Yeah, because we can't give them all the answers, actually. We can give them the answers through the word of God, through the understanding that we have, which is really helpful and prayerfully is going to be helpful today. But ultimately, the questions that have to be answered have to be answered by God and in a place of relationship and intimacy with Him. So I think having questions at the end of this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Absolutely. And that's what we talked about uh last episode was having uh the understanding that it's about asking the right question. And also, we started talking about the difference between hearing and discerning, and maybe not the difference, but how a lot of the times what we're doing is we're discerning God's voice. And I do think there's practical ways to get into perhaps the right posture or positioning in order to hear God's voice. And we may even need a part three to this. I don't know, because I think this is a topic that's important. Um, and that if a Christian can figure this part out, um, it's gonna be it's gonna pay dividends uh in their faith and in their ability to uh not only live out their faith, but in a way that edifies uh the people in the church around them. Yeah. Right. So where does your mind go uh when we talk about hearing from God first?

SPEAKER_05 4:21

So I have a question. You don't have to have the answer to it, but I think it's a good question for for everybody to to uh be able to ask and answer for themselves through what scripture says. Uh, what is the in in terms of hearing from God, what's the thing that, and I just jotted down a couple of names as I was just thinking about it here. Samuel, Abraham, Moses, Gideon, Mary, Joseph, uh, Saul, who would become Paul, Noah, Jeremiah, what is the thing that they all have in common in terms of how they hear from God?

SPEAKER_04 4:56

That I don't know the answer to.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

So the the answer to this, through what I see, is that in every account, and there's more, these are just the ones I thought about really quick, every one of them they didn't approach God in order to hear from him. God actually revealed himself to them first. So, in all of these accounts, from Samuel being a young boy and he's sleeping, and he thinks that it's the the uh priest who's speaking to him, Eli, uh to Abraham, who God appears to, to Moses, who we know has the encounter in the burning bush, to Saul, who is on his way to Damascus and Jesus appears to him, to Gideon, who is hiding in the wine press because the Midianites are uh oppressing his people, to Jeremiah that God shows up to, to Noah, who's way back here, um, and and God appears to him. In all these instances, it wasn't, it doesn't say that they were first in pursuit of hearing the voice of God. It says that God appears to them, that God reveals himself to them. And even if you want to take this even further, the 12 disciples, did they go looking for Jesus to be his follower, or did Jesus approach them and say, Come and follow me? And so the the question in hearing from God generally starts with, what do I have to do? Why am I not hearing from God? What do I have to do better? What do I have to fix? How do I position myself in my life in order to be able to hear from God? And everything within our walk with God and everything in terms of being a Christian and receiving what Jesus has done always has to start with Him. And as soon as we put the burden on ourselves to be the ones that figure out how to make it work, we've shifted the responsibility from the only one who can to ourselves. And so when we're looking at our relationship with God and how we hear from God, we have to recognize that it starts with him. That while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. That Jesus came to this earth as a result of God's love for humanity, and it's his desire to have relationship with us. It was his design to be looked at as a father who loves us. And Jesus says, if you go to the Father, if you seek, if you ask, if you knock. These are all things that are as a response of his to response to his goodness. And so the starting point in hearing the voice of God and having relationship with him has to be on him first, and then our response to him, to his goodness. In all of these instances, God speaks, and then they have the responsibility to be obedient and to further that relationship.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

So is this not a proactive endeavor as a Christian to hear from God? Or is because what I'm understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is it sounds a little bit more passive. It's initiated by God, but it's also a byproduct of our pursuit of Him. So I guess it's maybe it's like semantics or nuance here, and maybe that matters, maybe it doesn't. As a Christian, I guess the question is should I actively be trying to hear from God?

SPEAKER_05 7:58

Yes. Okay. So the the statement sometimes is made like, I found God, I found faith, I found this, I found that within within my religion, within my faith. But the understanding has to be that it was just that we recognized his pursuit of us. Like it always starts with him. Once we recognize that, whether it's somebody brought a word to us, they witnessed to us, or we started to read the Bible, or we watched the chosen TV series, or we saw something on social media. Once we recognize that he is reaching out to us, then we do absolutely have a part to play in a proactive pursuit of following him. So the invitation is come and follow me. The disciples could have said no. They could have said, Okay, thanks, but I'm gonna actually go back to fishing. They didn't do that. So it's first his call, and then it's our response to his call. But the burden of it being possible is still 100% on him, and we are the recipient of that gift.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

And that kind of makes sense to the analogy that came to mind last episode in part one was the idea of a radio station and us being the receiver. Where if we're tuned into him and aligned with his cadence, with that kairos, that that divine moment and that frequency of God, then we're gonna pick up on what he's already actively saying because the burden of speaking truth is on him, and the burden of being in alignment is on us to some extent because of our agency. And when we do that, now we're able to interpret and decipher what it is that he's actually saying.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

Yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes we are trying to um we're trying to basically build the radio station and to do all the things ourselves in order to be in the right place to be able to hear from him. So first we have to know that there is a signal that is being spoken, that there is a God who loves us and he is speaking, and we do have the ability to receive from him. And I think that opens up a place where um it should take off the pressure of I have to be perfect in order to receive, or I have to do this thing in order to hear, uh, that's not the starting place ever. And that's where the beautiful understanding of grace comes in. And this is why Paul, in the whole book of Romans, keeps speaking to the fact that it's not done by our ability, by our own strength, by our own self-reliance, but it's by the Spirit of God. And so for anybody who has been trying to hear the voice of God, and I think when we don't know if we're hearing from him and we're questioning if we're actually hearing his voice or our own, the pressure comes on to feel like I have to figure this out. Yeah. And I just want everybody to know as much as you want to hear from God, God desires that much more that you would hear him because he is speaking. We just got to get ourselves out of the way.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

Yeah, it's interesting. One of the prayers that I've been praying most frequently is not specifically to hear from God on a specific question or topic. And it's been, where are you? Because if you're not there, I don't want to go. If you're not in this business idea, if you're not in this thought, if you're not in this opportunity, if you're not in this relationship, if you're not in this atmosphere or this location, I don't want to go there. So I was probably asking a lot of questions in prayer to hear from God where God wasn't going to be. And so I was already asking from behind.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

And now when I ask from a place of presence, yeah, the answer is much more likely to come at by as a byproduct of his presence, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

No, it's so true. Cause I think that when we have a specific thing, like we're, it's an it's a means to an end. I'm gonna pray so that I can figure this thing out. I'm gonna pray so the thing that I want to happen happens instead of God, what are you speaking to me and how are you preparing me in this moment, in my questioning, in the places where I need you to come through for what you're bringing me into. And so as long as I am thinking about this is who I need God to be, I've placed God in a box that he doesn't exist in. And I've actually limited his ability to speak to me in that moment because I only want to hear according to this specific thing. I only want to hear based off of this question. But very rarely in the life of Jesus do we see him answering the questions that are asked of him. Yeah. Or God in general in the Bible. They'll ask a question with good intention, and God says, I actually want to show you something much bigger about who I am. Because whatever question you're asking, if you understand my nature and my omnipotence and my omniscience, my ability to be all powerful and all-knowing, if you recognize that, then you know you already have what you need if you have me. And now I can lead you and guide you in that specific area.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

So good. Yeah. And it reminds me of, and maybe this is not uh like a one-to-one uh correlation uh in scripture, but one of the verses and scenes that I had come across in this conversation of praying to be in God's presence and wanting to go where he already is, um, it brought to mind Elijah after he uh had victory over the prophets of of Baal and then was um threatened by Queen Jezebel. And he goes um to Mount, was it Mount Sinai, perhaps?

SPEAKER_05 13:24

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

So this so I'll read that's the context, right? So he's kind of he's he's afraid, he's exhausted. Um, I think the Bible might even describe him as being somewhat like depressed and suicidal.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

That's what we would think of because he says, I'm the only one. My God, you've called me to do this thing, and I'm the I'm the only one left, which actually isn't true, and that's what God speaks to.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

Yeah, so this brings us to 1 Kings 19, 11, where it says, uh the Lord said, Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by. Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquakes uh came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave. Then a voice said to him, What are you doing here, Elijah? This scene to me represents the business you're not supposed to be in, the church you're not supposed to be in, the place or relationship that you're not supposed to be in. That although it seems like there's activity, there seems like there's something happening, and sometimes this is even favor, this is money, this is opportunity, it doesn't mean that God is necessarily in it. Yeah. Is that am I gleaning the right kind of perspective from this, or am I?

SPEAKER_05 14:45

No, I think that that isn't a really accurate interpretation of it. It may have multiple, but when we see the the places where we would think that he would be in, when it would be in the earthquake and it would be in the fire, and it would be in those places where you would imagine in the in the strong wind that is making all the movement, um, that that would be where God would speak. And I think sometimes that's what we expect it to look like and sound like because that would be easy, it would be apparent. We want the big manifestation, we want the dream that's going to be Jesus appearing to us or coming into our room in the middle of the night. Um, and he's not limited. He can't, it's not that he can't do that or won't do that in certain circumstances, but far off in the night, he wants us to lean in. And that's why it's the low whisper. And those other things can also be the distractions, and they can be the places where we thought that our our answer or our value was going to be found in the apparent things that the world would look at and say, this is where I'm gonna receive what I need. So I think you're absolutely right. I think there's um a really accurate interpretation to say that the distraction that can come from other more apparent things can actually stop us if we chase after them from hearing the whisper.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Makes sense. And the other thing that stands out too about this verse it starts off with the Lord saying, Go out and stand on the mountain. To me, this speaks of positioning, yeah, of posture. So if we were to kind of lead into the meat of this specific episode with posture and positioning being the starting point, yeah. What do you have to say about that? What are your suggestions? What do you know biblically for a Christian to be in the right posture and position to hear from God?

SPEAKER_05 16:27

Well, it says very clearly in the book of James that God opposes the proud, but he actually draws near to, he embraces the humble. And humility is a really underrated posture within the world that we live in, but especially within the body of Christ, because humility is to say, I don't know, I don't have all the answers, I'm not the one that has the ability to maybe even do what needs to be done in the situation in the natural, but humility is to say, God, you do. And I think that humility is such a beautiful expression of being a child, um, to come before our father as the one recognizing, okay, this is my position, this is who I am, this is my limitation, and coming to him, recognizing, oh, you don't have any limitation. You don't have any of the shortcomings that I do. And so I'm coming to you in this posture of being one that receives. And that speaks again to not having the preconceived notions of what he's going to say or how he wants to work. We have to be the ones that are simply coming before him as the one who can do, will do, desires to do on our behalf, but it's not going to look the way that we would expect it to. So that would be the very first thing in terms of posture is humility. And I would say the second thing is hunger, because we want to have a hunger for what he is saying. And we don't want to walk away after two seconds of being in his in his presence and feeling like, okay, I'm full now. And I can be guilty of this. I can sit down with the Lord, read the Bible, sit down to be able just to spend time and to hear from him and to hear one thing and to get so excited that I run with it. I run with it to prepare a message. I run with it to be able to go break it down further and to understand it more. And that's not always a bad thing. But I think that our hunger has to be such that we are not satisfied with a little tiny word when he has a lot to say.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

I I tend to jump the gun a lot too. Oh man, that just convicted me because I feel like I do that all the time. The moment I get a little taste of his voice or a little direction, yeah, I run with it without pause. And that is like you're alluding to, it's a dangerous place to be.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

Um, so we have this positioning and posture of humility, uh, being hungry, which is pointing to an awareness that we are receiving, which makes a lot of sense because even um uh the ancient uh philosophers and and even the writers of the Bible, they would have looked at the facet of the soul that is the mind, much like uh any other part of us that receives, like our eyes or our ears receive inner receive in uh information. I think today, in this world of personal development and quote unquote self-help and you know, hustle culture, it's like me, me, me, I'm in control, I'm the transmitter, I'm the force behind all of this, and less on receiving, where 2,000 years ago plus the soul, the mind specifically, was this was this tool to receive.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

And so I think it just cut points to the fact that we are get meant to get in that posture of receiving and sometimes physically too. You know, we talked about this last week of doing a little bit of uh Sam's uh segment from Sunday sermons. There's a lot of S's there. But I remember this past Sunday, yesterday, actually, uh you prompted everybody to get on their knees and into a posture of worship. I remember what you were praying at the time was really kind of getting in that posture of worship too. And I think there is a difference between uh worship and praise, right? You praise somebody for something they do, you worship somebody for who they are. And as we were there, by the way, this is a little aside, I I hesitate to say I saw something in the spirit, but as I'm praying, I kind of got this idea, and I don't want to disqualify if it was something I was seeing in the spirit, was like angels ministering to people there. And not a lot. There, it just like there was there was this feeling urge in my spirit, this vision of like a few angels like breaking chains from people through that posture of worship through just getting on just getting on your knees. Yeah, I bet there is people in the congregation that have probably not gone on their knees in a long time.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

And there is there is something, as we mentioned before, spiritually important and necessary to get in a physical posture.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

So what would you say, because we kind of talked about the the soul posture, if you will, the spiritual posture. What would you say about the physical posture of these moments?

SPEAKER_05 21:00

Yeah, the physical posture is something that can be left out of Christianity, at least in our context in modern day. I don't think this was always the case. Um, the physical body is very much given to us by God just as the soul, just as the spirit. We are tripart beings. And myself included, have looked at the body sometimes as just being the flesh, just being the worthless part that is always causing me problems. But when I recognize that Jesus came in flesh, perfect flesh, but then when he came in flesh, he actually shows what it is to live in an alignment where the spirit is at the forefront, the mind, the will, and the emotions, the soul are in a place of submission to the spirit, and how the body will then come into a place of agreement with God because he knew no sin. He was the perfect sacrifice because he never experienced that place of sin, that place of separation from God. And so our physical bodies are. Are meant to have an impact on everything else. They're just the physical body's just not meant to be at the forefront, meaning that I feel tired. Well, I can't pray because I feel so tired. I feel hungry. Well, I'll I'll pray as soon as I go take care of my natural needs. No, our physical body has to be in the right order. But that posture that we took on Sunday, which it's I don't go into Sunday service thinking, oh, we're all gonna end up on our knees in worship today. Like, just so that's clear. But as I was walking up to the platform, uh, what came to mind was the book of Revelation. And it says that the elders they fall down before the Lord and they cast their crowns before him. And as I was just processing through that, I felt like I was being drawn to this place of being on my knees before the Lord. And so for me to invite the congregation into that is not always comfortable because I also know there's quite a few people that would be like, What are we doing? Like, seriously, I came to church today to hear the word, and now you're calling me to get on my knees. What is this? But I am not ever going to be dissuaded by that either. Um, because it's an invitation. Maybe you've never known what it is to put yourself in that posture. So to answer this very long-winded answer, uh, I do believe that our physical environment and the posture physically can absolutely help or hinder us in being able to be receptive to what God is saying.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

Yeah. And I know, I know you're aware of how powerful that moment was, but um, I think it was even far more powerful than maybe even what you had realized in that moment.

SPEAKER_05 23:38

Well, can I just be very transparent about this? I have a different experience than everybody else. Yeah. I have a different experience from being the one who is speaking or the one who is up on stage leading because in that moment, I'm not thinking about everybody else as much as my eyes are closed. And that's a moment with me and God that I want everybody to engage in on the on their own. Um, but I think it's funny because I've I've shared this with you before. It's on the days where we have the most new visitors. It's on the days where somebody is there and they're like, you know, just coming to Christ. And in the natural, you'd be like, there is no way this is a good idea for this person to want to come back. And yet that's what it looks like to be yielded to the Holy Spirit. He knows exactly where they are, what's going to speak to them, what's going to be able to uh have an impact on their lives. This past Sunday, I'm at the baptismal tank. I my back is turned to everybody. I don't even hear what's being spoken from the stage. It's a totally different experience for me being in that role than the congregation. But I love to hear the response from those who are present in it and are engaged because I get to hear what God's doing even when I'm not aware of it, because it can't be about what I'm doing. Yeah. It has to be about the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

This also makes sense too, and you probably do this naturally, is you are either consciously, and you can tell me if you're doing doing this consciously in real time, or it is natural now, second um just second nature, of pursuing his presence first. Like you pursued his presence, and his presence showed up in revelation for you. Yeah. And it showed up in posture for you, it showed up um tangibly in a way that you then heard from him what you should do next, and it led to what it led to. And it is interesting because I remember when you asked who's new here, I did not expect that many hands to be raised. And I also thought at the same time, I was like, wow, this is an interesting service to come to for your first time to a church. But it was it was obviously no less powerful because of that. And uh, I will say the other thing that came to mind that was powerful for me is I'll be honest, I'm a big dude kneeling like that in church. I was it was and I have a torn ACL. My knees were hurting at one point because we were down on our knees for a long time. And it just reminded me is like even in the pain, yeah, like this is the posture you need physically, spiritually, even when it's uncomfortable. Yeah, it's not just about how you feel, yeah, and it feels and it feeling good. Um, and a song that keeps coming to mind this past week is uh I forget the name of it, but it's like there's no less God in the shadows. Is that the lyric? It's like um Yes. Yeah, yeah, I think it's a Hill song. Same, say, same thing. Like there's no less God in the pain. There's no less God in in those moments that are uncomfortable. Um, and so thank you for facilitating that. It was a beautiful moment.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

Well, I I appreciate hearing that. And and one of the the uh you know chapters that we were looking to discuss in this is Exodus 33, and it's kind of become my my life verse in ministry, uh, which is I don't think I'm always gonna do these things perfectly, and that's not the expectation, but this is this is my desire. Um, Exodus chapter 33, uh, where Moses says to the Lord, I don't really know what I'm doing in all of this. Um, and this is the one who's called to lead. And uh the Lord had told him, All right, I'm gonna send you into the promised land and you're gonna go there, and angel's gonna go with you, but I'm not going with you. And Moses responds and he says, If I have found favor in your sight, please show me your ways that I might know in order to find favor. Consider too that this nation is your people. And he said to him, My presence will go with you and I will give you rest. And this is what Moses is holding on to. You said your presence is going with us. But he says, If your presence does not go with us, I don't want to go. I'll stay in the wilderness. I'll stay in the place of discomfort and inconvenience as long as you're there with us. And to me, that is the perfect picture of what we should be going after in church. If your presence is not in my message, if your presence is not in whatever we had planned for today, whether it's a baptism or any other agenda, then we're not gonna go there. Because there's no point in showing up to church and just being a part of something if God's not in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

So, how do we define presence then? Because this is another piece of the puzzle that I get overwhelmed by. It's like, is it that chill up my spine? Is it the goosebumps? Is that the feeling in my gut? Do I see something visually? Because as like I said, I kind of saw in the spirit as I was praying with my eyes closed, like these angels coming. And like, I'm just dipping my toe in this idea of being able to see. I would love to hear your um thoughts on that because I want to talk about how do we actually hear from God? What does that look like? Prophecy, dream, seeing, etc. Yeah. But let's start with the presence of God, the presence of the Holy Spirit. How do we identify when we're in that presence?

SPEAKER_05 28:36

Well, very practically, we can be aware of someone's presence without being able to see them or hear them. Like we've probably all experienced this.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Like the breath smells, and you can yes, exactly. Like, what just came into this room right now?

SPEAKER_05 28:48

No, I was in my office earlier today and I had the music on and I was just preparing. Um, I didn't hear anything, I didn't see anything. My back was turned towards the door. And um, but I but I knew somebody was in there and like legitimately didn't hear them at all, didn't make a sound. Um, because I think they were just being cautious, knowing that I was, you know, preparing. But I knew they were there. I sensed them there and I was able to turn and to respond to them. Um, there is something in us that is able to recognize movement even when we can't see or smell or taste or touch or anything like that. Um that is, I believe, something that is built into us, that is a spiritual reality, that we can walk into a room and we can feel tension, that we can walk into a room, we can feel joy, we can walk into a room and feel like, oh, somebody was just talking about me in this room. These are things that we can sense in the spirit. And so we do have the ability to sense and we are doing it whether or not we know that we are. So that's number one. It's already built into us. You don't have to work for that. Number two, God Himself, the Almighty who created the world, first of all, it's amazing. It's beyond comprehension that he would desire to be with us. And yet that's what we see all throughout scripture. He comes where he's wanted, he comes where he's invited. And so God desires to be with his people from Adam and Eve all the way through, and actually paid the highest price to be able to restore that relationship that was broken through sin. So he we can feel him, he wants to be with us, and if he comes into the room where we are, because he is who he is, there in my mind, and my understanding, is going to be a tangible feeling that goes along with it.

SPEAKER_04 30:34

So can we pause on this real quick? Because my understanding is that we have the Holy Spirit in us that indwells in us, right? But it also sounds like the Holy Spirit is out there and the present presence is made tangible somehow. So is there a is there a separation? Is there a line between where the Holy Spirit is in me and where he is in an atmosphere or a location? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Like, yeah, so we are temples of the Holy Spirit, so he dwells within us. Um I guess the way that I would think about it is that when Elizabeth in the Gospels is pregnant with John the Baptist, and it says that she's filled with the Holy Spirit. And then Mary comes with Jesus. It says that John leaps within Elizabeth's womb. So John can't see Jesus. John is a an infant, a baby, pre-born in the womb, and yet there's something in him, the Holy Spirit, that responds to the presence of Jesus coming into that place. Now, Holy Spirit, God the Father, God the Son, they are one. I don't know how this works, but there is something about when God enters the space that the Holy Spirit within us responds accordingly.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

It's like real recognizes real. I don't know how this works.

SPEAKER_05 31:55

I don't know what this looks like. So I wish I could speak to this more intelligently. And there's probably some smarter people that would be able to even point to some biblical reference for this. But the way that I see it is that when we worship, when we turn our attention, our spirit to him, he comes into that place and the Holy Spirit within us responds to him. And there is this interaction, there is something that is jumping within our womb. Another example is Jesus walking on the road to Emmaus, and he's walking with the disciples who are talking about his crucifixion. This is after his death and his resurrection. They just don't know he's been resurrected yet. And he doesn't reveal himself to them. He doesn't say, I'm Jesus, and they don't recognize him. But when they're done, when this encounter is finished and he has revealed himself and he has left, um, they say, Didn't our hearts burn within us as he opened up the scriptures? There was something in them that was responding to him, even though they physically were kept from being able to see him. So the Holy Spirit recognizing Jesus' presence when he's been invited into it is the presence of God that I physically feel in those moments. Now I could be reading and I could be praying, and I don't necessarily feel that, but there are moments where all of a sudden it hits me like, oh, he's he's present. Is he always present? On some level, I think yes.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

This is this sounds to me like a mystery too, probably.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

I don't think there is a specific answer because I've talked to people who haven't felt the presence of God, and I don't know exactly why that is. I don't know if that's something that's present. I don't know if there's unforgiveness present or or places of unbelief or things that they're carrying that would seem to prevent them from being able to receive that. All I know is that there was a moment in my life where I felt it more strong than ever before. And you asked me about this at the end of our last episode, where I just said, God, I want to feel your presence. And I felt him come into my room and I felt an embrace from God in that moment. And it was basically like there was an explosion within me of just the sensation of the goodness of God, of peace, of joy. It's the kind of feeling that you never ever want to go away. You never want it to leave. But maybe it's kind of like Peter walking on water where his eyes are on Jesus, and then he gets distracted and all of a sudden he starts to sink. That it's like, this is amazing. This is everything I want. And our mind, which just it frustrates me sometimes, all of a sudden it's like, oh, what about this thing? And it's like, oh, yeah. So I want to get more and more attuned to his presence. And the example that was given, um, Bill Johnson, a pastor, said, if there is a dove who's perched on your shoulder, which side note, I was just at a friend's house the other day. She runs an animal sanctuary, Amanda Grace, and she had birds and she actually was setting them on my shoulder. I was like, okay, this is this is a an actual, this is what it feels like. She said, or he said that if you want to keep that dove on your shoulder, the way that it stays there is by making sure that every move is intentional. You're not going to make these quick set of moves, you're going to move with the understanding of, oh, there's something that's that's sensitive here. And I want it to stay so I move intentionally to be able to walk in humility, to walk in hunger, to position myself so that I can receive from God.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

Yeah. And it goes back to one of the initial points of like the posture you get into. You can't see what you're not looking for. You can't hear what you're not listening for. And I think, like I said in the previous episode, just listening to this episode and giving people the awareness that these things are possible and part of the life of a Christian and a disciple, yeah, they're going to start hearing from God, even just by consuming this content, right? It also reminded me of uh Matthew 3.16, which it says, and Jesus, when he had been baptized, went up straight away out of the water, and lo, the heavens were open unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lightning upon him or lighting upon him. The reason that came to mind was because you mentioned the dove and and the birds, but I think a lot of people don't realize that there's actual there is a sound, and this is where we get into frequency and this sounds a little woo-woo, but vibration. You know, when I think about a dove descending, they don't they don't kind of land like any other bird. They actually make, have you heard a you've heard a dove land? Like they flap their wings and it sounds louder than so. To me, there is going to be some sort of vibration resonance, there's gonna be uh some sound transfer in some capacity, and then also the seeing aspect of it, like the the lighting upon him. There's there's a visual aspect to this, maybe not just physically uh from our eye, physical eye perspective, but from our spiritual eyes, we can see things in the spirit. So this leads me to my question about all of this is what are some of the ways that people do hear? Is it sound? Is it dreams? Is it prophecy? Is it seeing things? Like what are those kind of categories of quote unquote hearing from God that might fall into even discerning from God?

SPEAKER_05 37:16

Uh I like the teaching that I've I've often pointed back to um and to give credits from Havilah Cunnington, and she uh speaks about prophetic personalities. And uh the way that it's simplified is that uh I always say this, I've probably said it here before. If God speaks six thousand, or if there are six thousand languages being spoken on the earth, then why would we think that God would only speak in one way to everybody? Like different callings, different identities, different personalities, um, I think leads to the fact that God speaks to us based off of who he's created us to be. So the way that we would often think about it would be like Samuel, um, which he heard an audible voice. So there is this ability to hear. Now, very rarely in anybody that I know have do they hear from God in an audible way. I've heard some individuals say they have heard his audible voice on very, very, very rare occasions. I've personally never heard an audible voice. But the way that I hear or discern what God is saying, it feels like I am hearing from God internally. Like there are legitimate words that I am hearing being spoken in my mind through the Spirit, but that's what it sounds like. Um, that's the the one that everybody would think of and say, oh, that's how I want to hear from God. But that's not always the case. Um, there's also the ability to see, and this is, I think, more common than people would imagine. This is in their dreams. Literally, as they're sleeping and they're having dreams, now not every dream is from God. We know that, but there are dreams that God will give us to be able to see. And some people are very active dreamers. And to me, this from my experience tends to correspond a lot with people who are more gifted in the spiritual realm, who are highly discerning and are meant to walk in a gifting that has to do with that. Um, so seeing sometimes in prayer or in worship, they will actually start to see something in their imagination that is God showing them a picture, and then he brings discernment to that picture.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

So is there a difference between I've heard the phrases open vision and closed vision? Is that biblical or is that open vision and closed vision? Meaning seeing something just like I'm seeing you now, but spiritually, and then I guess a closed vision would be just the imagination part where I'm just seeing it.

SPEAKER_05 39:43

Yeah, based off of this, it would fall under the category of seeing. Um, I I don't think I know too many people that would have maybe an open vision. Well, I guess it depends, right? On a Sunday service, like you spoke about feeling that sense or that understanding that there were angels present in the room. That's not the first time that that's been spoken to me. So just by way of confirmation, um, that is something that people have seen. And so whether they can see it with their physical eyes or it's something that they're seeing in the spirit, I don't know for sure. But I do know it would be underneath that gifting of being able to see and being more visual in terms of how God speaks to them.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 40:22

Um, then there is the ability to know. This falls under the category of the more discerning gifts. I said that everybody can walk into a room and kind of sense, you know, if there's a very significant uh feeling that's going on in that room, that's more of this feeling gift. But some people are very sensitive to it. I might walk into a room and not think anything of it. And uh my wife comes with me and she's like, Oh, did you feel that thing? And I'm like, No, like, but there's an attuning that comes in. And so for somebody who feels it might feel like they're always aware of all these things and other people aren't, and they might be like, Well, what's wrong with me? Or what do I do with this? Well, maybe the Holy Spirit is bringing you a spiritual understanding of what's taking place in that atmosphere so that you can then go pray about that thing, or there's something for you to know about it to be able to discern, because he wants to give you wisdom. And so that ability to sense and to feel is part of that. Well, that's this, so I said knowing. This is more of the feeling. I'm sorry. So this is more of the feeling aspect of it. Knowing is more of the going into a situation and feeling like you know what God's calling you to do with no other understanding, nobody's instantaneous. Yeah, nobody said anything to you. So this is where that I spoke about discernment. The knowing is um, I just know this is what we're supposed to do. And you're like, how? I don't know. I just know. Yeah, and this comes from the Holy Spirit giving you the ability to have a greater understanding. Um now there could be some some carryover between hearing and knowing in this way, where there's something, a spiritual gift called words of knowledge and words of discernment. It's in prayer, it's in speaking to somebody, the Holy Spirit gives you something, some information that is something you couldn't know on your own, but now you know something about that person. And maybe it's just to give you a place to be able to speak into their life, or maybe it's because once again, you're meant to go back and to pray about that thing because God's revealing it for a reason.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

So it does sound like there's a lot of overlap here where, and sometimes it's semantics too. Like I may discern something instantaneously that I then use words to say, oh, I feel like God blank, right? Where I already knew the thing, but now maybe it is manifesting in a physiological sensation. Maybe it's a nuance that matters, maybe it isn't. What I will say is I have found that there is nuance to these different uh giftings or abilities, if you, if you will. For example, um, I've relied heavily on discernment, but specifically in the realm of like systems and people and how they fit into that system. So this is this has served me very well in business. There's been many times where I meet somebody and I know exactly where they're supposed to fit in a particular system, business, organization, et cetera. And I I just I just know it, right? Um, and this can be even something simple as a piece of furniture. I know exactly where it's supposed to go in the greater system of a room. And and some may say, oh, that's just your ability for or tendency towards design and spatial awareness. I don't know exactly.

SPEAKER_05 43:38

But it wouldn't be surprising that those things would work together.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 43:41

Because if God designed you and created you and gave you these natural giftings, why wouldn't the spiritual side of that inter interweave into um what you're doing in the natural as well?

SPEAKER_04 43:52

Yeah. So that leads me to the question of this idea of discernment, and I've often phrased it like this it's not really about here. It's about discerning God's voice with the caveat that I have actually once personally heard the voice of God audibly. But I say that because most often it seems that for most Christians, it is in the realm or umbrella term of discernment. Does that make sense? And I think that's important. And I may have mentioned this a few episodes ago. I think God wants it that way because He's not, He's not just going to give us a vision or a dream or an audible voice every single time we have a question. We need to just be walking in discernment of his will. And that starts with the posture of alignment and receiving. So I know that's that's a little intangible and not formulaic, which I think is important to not necessarily make this just a formula and system, and make it more about posture and alignment. So what do you have to say about that specifically as far as does this mostly fall under that word discernment? Am I focused too much on that word? Because that's just what I've seen in myself and in others that I know personally who quote unquote hear from God, that it usually comes through some level or aspect of discernment.

SPEAKER_05 45:05

Relational, you know, the context that we talk about, our our relationship with Christ. It is meant to be going on continually. Yeah. And so if we were hanging out all the time and walking together and doing things, like there would be constant dialogue that would be going on. There would be things that you would be able to bring to understanding that I wouldn't have seen based off of your giftings and your understanding. If we're walking with the Holy Spirit, there is no limit to what he wants to be doing as we invite him into our day, into our decisions, into our conversations. Whether that is speaking to us directly, giving us discernment, giving us greater understanding, or showing up in a tangible, powerful way, giving us something that we need in that moment, there is no limit to it. And so I do think that discernment and hearing the voice of God are very closely interwoven. And so I guess my point is that when we make the priority being with God at all times, as we turn our attention to Him on a regular basis, he is going to be doing any number of things in partnership with our lives. And so I don't think that we can, we, we, I think it's comfortable for us to categorize what he's doing and how this looks like and what this how this works and what this looks like. Um, but I think in continual relationship, he's just a part of what we're doing. He's just a part of our conversations. If we are tuned into what he's doing, he is giving us checks, he's giving us feelings of yes, this is this is good, go for it, or no, stay away from this. We're about to say something, and he's like, mm-mm, don't say that thing. So, yes, to answer your question, I do think that discernment and hearing the voice of God are very closely related.

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Do you do you think that he speaks more frequently and clearly to certain people and not to others? And if so, why?

SPEAKER_05 47:04

If you have a prophetic gifting on your life, it's very natural that you are going to see the world through the lens of that prophetic gifting, which means that you are constantly going to be looking for his voice in everything you're doing. Now, for others who have more of a propensity towards evangelism, they're going to be looking at how do I grab a hold of this soul for the kingdom of God? It's just as much Holy Spirit, but their pursuit's going to be a little different. Um, for different giftings, they're going to see things differently. So I would say that if you have a prophetic gifting, you are naturally going to be looking for things in that way more so. Um, so I would say if there was a higher level of hearing the voice of God, it would be within that gifting. But I don't think it's limited to that.

SPEAKER_04 47:52

Do you think it's predicated on our capacity for stewardship?

SPEAKER_05 47:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

So I think one of the through lines I've found in scripture is the people who heard from God were the most likely to act on what they heard.

SPEAKER_05 48:09

Yes. So I so in answering your question, I'm speaking more to the generalization of somebody who is pursuing God and wanting to hear his voice. Are are they going to hear more if they have a prophetic gifting than another gifting?

SPEAKER_04 48:22

So it's like a so maybe like a talent, maybe that's not the best.

SPEAKER_05 48:26

Uh based off their assignment, based off of what they've been called to do, some are going to have a higher propensity for hearing the voice of God.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

But is like a talent like singing, like a like some people are born and they can just naturally sing better than others. Is it like that?

SPEAKER_05 48:39

Yeah, uh, I mean, that's a natural gift. We're talking about spiritual gifts. So I I don't know the direct comparison to that, but I like the word assignment because it's something that's been given to you by God. And a singing gift would be given to you by God as well. So maybe you're gonna have a greater propensity to want to listen to music and to understand how that works in terms of how God receives it. Um, but I think that your your point is an important one. The more that we position ourselves to hear the voice of God in humility and hunger, and the third one that I was gonna add, I was just trying to think of another H is obedience. So we hear the voice of God and then we steward it well, we do something with it.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

The H is silent. The H is silent, yes, yes, in obedience.

SPEAKER_05 49:26

Um if we are humble and hungry for what he is saying and doing, I do believe that there is a greater sensitivity and a reception if we use that that radio frequency to be able to hear the voice of God. So if someone is gonna hear more from God, it's gonna be because they've stewarded that, they've got a desire for it, they've made time and space for it. And if God comes where he's wanted and we're creating that space, then yes, in that context, there will be those that hear more from God than others.

SPEAKER_04 50:01

So it sounds like stewardship and obedience could also lead to hearing him more clearly and more frequently and more loudly, right?

SPEAKER_05 50:12

So the the sheep know the voice of the shepherd because they've heard it continually, and because they've not that they've made space for it, but in our lives, when we make space for the voice of the shepherd, we're going to discern it much more quickly. And if God's always speaking and we're intentionally listening, then for sure we're gonna be hearing it.

SPEAKER_04 50:32

So how does how does Pastor Sam Edwards hear from God?

SPEAKER_05 50:37

Making time and space, and it's really not in just one area. What I've I think been grateful to be able to develop through my walk as a Christian is that whether I'm driving or I'm in my office praying or I'm just closing my eyes at night, I intentionally want to hear what he's saying. And I I should do a much better job of this than I probably do. I think there's always a greater aspiration for more of it. Um, but I do make space in just about every space that I'm in to want to hear what he's saying.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

So less uh, so less about the how, but more about the manifestation of his voice for you specifically. How how do you hear from God? What does that manifest? Is it you see it in your mind, do you feel it in your gut? You have words of knowledge, how do you how do you hear from God?

SPEAKER_05 51:25

It's a it's a dialogue.

SPEAKER_04 51:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:27

So I don't know exactly how to explain it outside of I know when he's speaking and what that sounds like internally. Okay. And so there is a conversation that's going on.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

And so is that so it makes sense back to like the resonance or a frequency? That's kind of what it sounds like. Like it may not be like that physical sound, but you're you're you're discerning a frequency or something internally that just you know is not you, it's him.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

Yeah. So on Sunday going up onto the platform, I didn't have an agenda. Like I knew what we were doing for that day. I knew we were gonna have a baptism, and I knew that we were gonna transition and that we were gonna be taking up our tithes and offerings in that moment. But besides that, I didn't have any idea or understanding of what God wanted to do. And so as I'm walking up there, I'm led to the book of Revelation. I open Revelation, I go directly to Revelation 21. Um, I feel I quickly read it as I'm walking up there, and I'm like, okay, that is what that is where the Holy Spirit's leading me. I read that, and then from that place, feel that sense of, okay, he he is asking for a place of obedience right now. And that's how we ended up in that posture of being able to just kneel down and worship him. So if it becomes normal in our everyday walk, then it could be normal in any circumstance. So uh a difficult situation. Uh I'll give you an example of something else that's a little more personal. Yesterday, um, I did something dumb. And so I was feeling shame about it, and I was carrying the weight of it. It wasn't evil, it wasn't, you know, malicious, but it was dumb. And I was like, oh, I feel the heaviness of this thing right now. And I could sense that the Holy Spirit was showing me there was an opportunity. I just couldn't get past that angst within me to get there. And so it took me a while to get there. And it wasn't until this morning on the way into the church that I finally made that space to hear and then to let him deal with it. So I know for me, I know he's always right there, ready to speak. The only hindrance to that is whether or not I'm willing to receive in that moment.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Gotcha. So if you were to kind of like handhold me, let's say you were like a golf coach, right? You'd probably get me in a certain position, you give me some uh tactical um advice on how to swing the golf club and where to position myself in relation to the ball and where my eyes are gonna go. What is like the really nitty-gritty practical advice? If I said, hey, Pastor Sam, I want to hear from God today. And I know that's not necessarily how it works. So I don't want, I don't want, I don't want to take away from the seriousness of this, but I want to have a tangible framework for people. Where would we just start? And I know we talked about posture, but what does that look like? Is it in a prayer closet? Is it me laying in bed? Is it me getting on my knees? Is it face down on my living room floor? Like, what is the practical, tangible process, if you will?

SPEAKER_05 54:28

Get someplace quiet. So get rid of the distractions. And if you can, put your cell phone out of the room, get someplace where you can just listen.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

By the way, that's I want to stop on that point. I have my my cell phone right here, and I normally don't have it here. Um, they've done studies on the proximity to your phone. Your brain fires differently when your phone is in the same room as you because you're constantly trying, it's a source of dopamine. And so your brain is accustomed to the notifications to picking it up. And so if it's anywhere in your vicinity, your brain is aware of that.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:02

And it's it's waiting for you to pick up that device. So the best thing, like you just said, is if you're gonna get quiet with the Lord, yeah, put the phone in it in a totally different room.

SPEAKER_05 55:11

Yeah, that's a little scary.

SPEAKER_04 55:13

It is scary, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

And not surprising, actually, when you really think about it. Um, so yeah, definitely remove that from the equation. Uh, and however you do this next part is really, I think that's something that you develop between you and the Lord. But the most important thing that we can do to start is to recognize how good God is. So it's worship. Now, if that is singing a song, a hymn, if it's going to the Bible and looking at one of the Psalms that David wrote in worshiping God, for me, that's what puts us in that posture of humility. It's recognizing how big he is, how powerful he is, and how much love he has for me. If I can get into that space, then I've put myself in the proper perspective to realize he's God, I'm just a man, but he loves me and he wants to speak with me. To me, he wants to be present where I am. That to me is really whatever that looks like. Um, for me, that looks like I, when I'm spending intentional time with God in the morning, I'll go in the garage, I'll sing a hymn, I'll start to pray in tongues personally, I'll start to just really put myself in that place of recognition of who he is and inviting the Holy Spirit into the place where I am. So that's the very first thing. And then it's the quietness of being able to. This is how do we put this in a practical term outside of I'm not trying to do something very specific in terms of what I'm going to hear or what it's going to sound like. I'm just creating a space for him to be able to do it. So if I've removed the phone and if I've removed the distraction, and if I turn my attention to him, now I'm just creating an invitation. God, come to the place where I am right now. Come fill this room. And when he does that, then you just have to pay attention. What do you start to feel? What do you start to think? Maybe there are things that come to your mind and they're distractions, and you have to just push them out. Those are pretty clear to me. The distractions are anything that produces fear, anxiety, worry, those kind of things. I'm gonna push them out. But even paying attention to um the things that might feel like a distraction where I'm thinking about a certain situation. I'm thinking about something that happened, you know, a week ago or that morning or whatever it is, maybe we think that's a distraction, but the Holy Spirit's actually wanting to speak to that place.

SPEAKER_04 57:53

So circumstance, situations, environment. Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 57:57

If there's a picture that comes up, if there's a verse, a scripture that you were reading and it starts to come back to your mind, just pay attention. Like we want to create a blank canvas for him to be able to start to paint on. And we may not know what that looks like initially, but we're gonna create that space. And the most important third part of this is don't give up if you don't feel like you hear something right away. Don't walk away and say that didn't work. Recognize that you are now creating a different rhythm in your life, you're creating a different sensitivity. And so don't give up even after one time of it feeling like it didn't work. Continue to come back, continue to come back. This is why I love the parable that Jesus tells of multiple parables, but the one of the like the unjust judge. He actually says that the judge doesn't answer her because he's a good man or because of any of these other things. It's just because she's persistent and she keeps coming back. That speaks to the hunger part of this. How hungry are we to hear from God? And will we continue to come back? Um, there have been things in my life that I know I've had to, I've had to continue to pursue even when they didn't happen right away. And it was weeks or months or even longer than that that I was waiting for certain things. Like speaking in tongues was one of them. I continued to pursue, I continued to come back. And then there was a moment where it seemed to happen like that, but there was a process of getting there.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

Yeah, I think too many Christians pray to speak and don't pray to listen.

SPEAKER_05 59:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 59:31

I'm guilty of that. And one of the things I've been doing more often now, besides asking him to reveal his presence to me and where he is, is just listening. And I think that might be a good challenge for the listener this week. Don't say anything. Just have the intention of sitting there with God, letting him reveal his presence to you and whatever he wants to say. But I also know what's important here is not just knowing how he speaks, but like the nature of his voice. And we talked last episode in part one about knowing who he is, knowing his nature, specifically through scripture, because scripture is going to speak to you in black and white, and then through the revelation that you have. There's gonna be the Holy Spirit. We talked about wise counsel is important. Um, we just mentioned circumstances, environments, and then we also have what we alluded to and and actually mentioned before was dreams, visions, prophecy. Under all those, though, I want to I want to ask you about symbols. Do you think he speaks to us symbolically? I know there's a school of thought, obviously, with dreams. We see this throughout scripture that things were often symbolic. Do you think something can show up, let's say, in nature and be symbolic as a representation of an answer that he has for us in regards to something? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:47

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:48

Um, I wouldn't limit it, limit him to not being able to do that. I would just caution that you want to have the foundation in place first in terms of how he speaks and really being able to discern that voice because if we start looking for things, we can find answers everywhere. It's not necessarily him. So we want to know what his voice sounds like.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

So this is where I feel crazy a lot. Like I I'm being really transparent here because sometimes I feel like I get a lot of anxiety about this because I'm like, is it my is it my own thought? But wait, there's demons out there. Is it a demon influencing my thought? Is this God? Like, is it do I and then I go to the Bible, but like the Bible says the thing that I think I was thinking, but I don't know. It doesn't really feel good. Like I just I literally feel like I'm going crazy sometimes. Like, am I schizophrenic because I'm hearing these things? I don't know if it's my voice. I don't, you know, like so how do we decipher like what's God's voice, what's my own voice, what's the enemy's voice? Because it really makes it drives me nuts sometimes, dude. Like if I'm being totally honest, you know?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:49

Yeah. So once again, if it's him wanting to speak to us, which it is, if he is the one who is all powerful and we're not, we have to place the larger burden of responsibility on him than on us. And we make it too much about am I doing it right? Am I doing it wrong? Um, is this him? Is this me, etc.? We have to just come to that place of surrender where we begin to just learn. And this is not like an overnight thing. This is a process of development where we learn this is how God speaks to me. This is what I feel physically, this is what I recognize in terms of the peace that I feel or the joy that I feel. These are the trademarks of God being present in the room. And that only comes over time. Like we haven't known each other very long. But yet, if you call me, I know your voice on the phone. I know that it's you, I know the things that you say, I know things that we've talked about already. We've built a relationship. That wasn't the case on day one. That was something that was developed. And this process, this journey of God is developed. And again, we've talked about it before, but Moses having to go through that process of running from Egypt, finding the burning bush in the wilderness, uh, being the one who leads the people out of uh Egypt, none of this happened overnight. This was a process of David going through a process, of Saul going through a process, of Abraham going through a process. This does not happen immediately. But if we go into anxiety and fear and worry, that is where the enemy is able to have an influence. And so as long as his word and what we're perceiving to be his word is not violating scripture, is not violating his nature, and is not violating those around us that would say that doesn't feel right. There's something about that that feels wrong. As long as we're walking with those guardrails, then we should walk in obedience to what we feel that he's saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:45

Makes sense. Yeah, the test for me recently has been is this is this conviction or is this condemnation? Because his word convicts, the enemy condemns. Yeah. And that and you'll notice, at least I notice this, is a lot of the statements of condemnate condemnation are you based. Like, oh, you're such an idiot, or you're, you know, insert, and sometimes it'll get like uh expletives and like really bad words and and things about who I am and and what I've done and shame and guilt and all that. And I know that's not it's either from my own flesh or it's from the enemy. God's not doing that. That's not how he's speaking to me. And and as you like you said, exercise this muscle, it's it seems like it's a repetition thing as well. You it's a it is a skill to some extent, I guess, that you can strengthen. I've been able to decipher more instantaneously is this conviction or is this condemnation?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:34

Yeah, I guess the question that I would have, and I think you're what you just said is absolutely accurate, and it brought me to a passage I want to read. When we're being tormented, wondering, is this God or is this not? Is this me or is this the enemy? The question that I have to ask is if I start to pursue what I feel is God and I miss it, is he capable enough to bring me back to him if my heart's going after him? If a child is learning how to walk, we keep them away from the sharp corners and we keep them away from the things that can endanger them. We don't let them walk by the road, but we do let them fall. We do let them take those first couple of steps and we don't try to catch him every time, but they fall and we're like, hey, you're good, get back up. Like God being the perfect father, we don't like to see ourselves as toddlers who are wandering around. But even when we're just learning, yeah, we're gonna fall, but he's there, he's gonna help us get back on our feet and then put us in the right place. Like again, let's trust him to be God. Let God be God and recognize who we are. We are those who are following after him, trusting that he's gonna lead us in the way that he needs to. The places of shame and condemnation that come are where we feel like, I've got to have this figured out already. How come I don't know this already? How come I don't know I don't know what it is to be able to do this. I want to know. I desire to know. And God's like, rest, slow down. Let me do it. It's in my timing. It's in my ability to bring you into the place where you need to be when you need to be there. And if you mess up, guess what? I can use that too. And so Romans 8.1, we always go back to, and I quote this all the time, but it was this morning where I was just, I've been just taking just a deep dive in the book of Romans. Romans 8.1 says, There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And he goes on to say, it's because the law of the spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. So you've been set free from your own self-reliance to be perfect. And now you've been connected to the law of the spirit who empowers you. That's a beautiful understanding. It's by spirit, it's not by our own ability. But then later on in the passage in Romans 8, 34, Paul asks the question: Who is to condemn? So there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Why? Who is to condemn us? It says that who shall bring any charges against God's elect? This is the verse before. It's God who justifies. And Christ Jesus is the one who died. And more than that, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who is indeed interceding for us. Why don't we walk in condemnation anymore? Because Jesus paid the price. And if that wasn't enough, he is praying for us at this exact moment. The one who is the only one who could bring condemnation against us, the one who paid the price for us, is not standing there judging us. He's actually praying for us. He's interceding for us that we would be able to do what he called us to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:51

Do you think peace is a good litmus test for whether or not we're hearing from God?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:57

I do. I think sometimes the situation that he calls us into can be so much of a it can require so much faith of us that it doesn't necessarily mean that we feel good in that moment, but there is a confidence in who he is. There's peace to me looks less like everything feels exactly the way that I want it to, and much more of, okay, this all doesn't feel good, but I have a confidence in who he is. And if I have a confidence in who he is, then I have the peace to be able to surpass my understanding of why I think it's good or bad, and I can just trust.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:34

Well, yeah, I ask because there's a situation that you you know about personally with me. I don't like talking about it publicly just yet. We've alluded to in previous episodes, but I also feel like there's a lot of ego in me talking about it because I go, oh, look what I did for God. Like that's I don't want it to be like that. So I'm gonna be vague here. But one of the things that led me to know it was the right decision was because on paper, it's one of the most quote unquote objectively difficult, financially stupid, et cetera, et cetera, things on paper from a worldly perspective. But every single time I addressed one of those concerns, I had peace when I looked into the future of it all. And that's that tends to be the litmus test for me from hearing from God. But at the same time, I do conflate peace with feeling good too often, I think. And I think a lot of Christians probably do that as well. So that I to me, that's another muscle that needs to be strengthened.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:29

Yeah, I think in the past I would have said, Yeah, if you're doing what you're supposed to do, everything's gonna feel great. And I'm like, I just haven't found that to be true. It just there's a confidence though in who he is. And that to me is is what I will rely on because even if it doesn't feel good, I still trust his word.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:46

So if we were to kind of give like a diagnostic for this, then you know I love my little systems and diagnostic tests. Yeah, you know, four things come to mind for me, and I would love to hear you fill in any of the blanks. Uh, but first is alignment with scripture. Fruit, does following this thought into practice and into behavior actually yield fruit? Uh, does it glorify Jesus? And number four, does it stand the test of time? Yeah. Is there anything I missed? And if not, uh, I would love to expand on the ones that I did say.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:19

I think that's great. I would only add, does it cause me to rely more on myself or or on Jesus? So does it bring about self-reliance or God reliance? That would be a question that I would ask.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:33

Yeah. I always say this. I think I might have said in part one is God wants you to set goals so big that you can't help but to give him credit when you achieve those goals. You know, like it's all to the glory of God. Yeah, it's all to relying on him, not relying on ourselves. But that this is another this is why this whole topic makes me feel crazy, is because I'm like, well, he also wants me to take action. It is up to me some to some capacity from a practical standpoint. So where does where do I stop and he begins? You know, like I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:00

It's just all in the right order. Yeah. The book by Watchmanny called Sit, Walk, Stand, I think is so great. He says, God creates the whole world in days one through six. He creates man at the end of day six, and day seven is the Sabbath. So man's first day is a day of rest, and God's last day, the day seven, is when he rests. But he has done everything already. So he calls us into a place of trust and rest after he's already done it all. So for us, again, what are we called to do? We're called to trust in him, we're called to rest. Then, so we go from seated to uh to sit to walk. So I start to walk out what that looks like, but it's because I've started in a place of rest. And then this is from the book of Ephesians, when you've done all to stand, continue to stand, then I stand against the attack of the enemy. So it just has to be in the right order. First, I sit and I rest in what he has done. My first day is a Sabbath, it's a trust in him. My second thing is to then walk it out. So there is an action that's required of us. It just comes next, and then I stand firm in what I know.

unknown 1:12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:09

Most Christians, I think, pray with their mouth and not with their feet enough. Yes. You know, I see through also throughout scripture that it's about action and and mobilizing.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:17

You know, I'm all for action as long as it starts at a rest.

unknown 1:12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:20

And he also says be still, not stay still.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:22

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:22

And so, right, it does start with that rest.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:24

And then Where do you have all you have all these statements that I'm like, you say things that I don't even I've never even heard of before? And I think they're very accurate, they're very good. But I'm over here like, oh, that's good. I want to, I want to put that in my next message.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:37

You know what's funny is my brain for a long time has worked in cliches, you know, and I always say cliches are cliche for reasons because they're true. Yeah. Um, and so now I I've applied what I've I've done in a previous life. I know it's a bad term, but you get what I'm saying in an old chapter, uh, to now the Bible, and I think about things in kind of these cliches or these phrases because that's how I remember them the best.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:58

At least the one per like, you know, kind of work together. I'm like, where did that come from? I like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:05

Well, I appreciate you uh you acknowledging that because I do tend to think of things in that way. So with that, we have this kind of diagnostic test. Um, let's let's kind of end this episode practically with with troubleshooting. Um, because I know a lot a lot of the times I feel like I'm not hearing from God. But at the same time, here's another cliche for you. It's like if we go back to that GPS analogy, like the godly positioning system, if you will. Well, when is the GPS silent when you're on the right path?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:35

You know? That's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:36

And so I think sometimes that silence is the answer.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:40

And too many Christians are waiting for the go signal when they should be waiting for a stop signal. And so to me, this is about taking action from a place of rest, from a place of surrender, from a place of wanting to be aligned with his will, but also knowing that if he's not actually stopping you and you've already had the discernment that you are someone on the right path, like keep going. Yeah, he'll stop you, he'll close a door. Yeah, you know. Um, so what would you say to the person who's listening who's like, I've I've prayed for years, I've tried to hear from God for years, maybe even decades. They've never had a tangible experience with the Holy Spirit. What do what do we do about that?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:18

Yeah, I've had people come to me with that, and it's probably one of the hardest places to respond to because for me, that was never my experience, but it doesn't mean it's not a legitimate uh experience. It doesn't mean that it should be looked at as the person is wrong or even doing something wrong. But I would say that there are usually some places in our development, whether it's our spiritual development or even just our natural development leading to that place that have led to a distrust in God. Um, we look at God as God the Father. A lot of times it's because there are places where there are wounds from that not having that father or that security in their relationship with their father that will almost internally disqualify them from being able to hear from God. Whether it's I don't feel worthy of being able to do it, or it's a distrust in who God is. And I think that for me, if I was in that place, I would really want to go back and to take the intentional decision to search scripture for who God is as Father and what Jesus says to be true about him as Father, and then to start to rectify. And this is the Holy Spirit will work through this, whether you feel him or hear him tangibly or not. I would just make a list and okay, these are the things that the Bible says to be true about who God is. And if I'm very honest, this is what I think to be true, and to see any of the discrepancies, and if there are discrepancies present between his word and my word, his word is always the right one. So then I repent for the places that I have continued to believe something that is not true. And that doesn't mean you did something wrong again. It might be something that was done to you. However, any belief system that has been created out of trauma or out of even good intentions or whatever it is, if it stands against the word of God, only one of them can be accurate. Makes sense, only one can be true. So we have to choose this day who we're going to serve. And that's what Joshua says.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:23

But what about the situations where people are in constant constant pain and the word tells us that our sicknesses and pain and sin and transgressions have been nailed to the cross? And obviously, part of God's original design would be for us to be whole and and our physical bodies to be healed. And maybe it's not just a physical ailment or pain, maybe it's that mental anguish or anxiety. You know, I think about Paul's thorn that he dealt with that God didn't relieve him from. Um what do you say to that person who right now is in so much pain?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:54

And also wanted to hear from God. Is that pain a message, perhaps? I I don't know. Is it is it to reveal his his grace?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:02

Is it you know? That's the so you're giving me all the hard ones. The second hardest question is so, you know, why am I not healed? Like, why am I believing for this and I'm not seeing the healing that I want? And I would say I don't know the answer because I I wouldn't, you know, think that I could just give a blanket statement to everybody's ailments and and whatever that looks like. But I would say that regardless of what we're going through, don't waste the opportunity for God to reveal Himself in it. Don't waste the opportunity for God to speak to us in the midst of pain. Like if you're going to be in a place of pain or sadness or whatever it is, um don't let the moment go by without allowing God to do what only He can do through it. And sometimes we're in a rush to get out of that place, we're in a rush to get out of the discomfort and the pain. But sometimes those are the moments where God speaks to us the clearest. And that's not an answer that anybody wants to hear, but it's one that I'm starting to recognize more and more in my own life because I'm like, well, I follow God and I want to do all that he has for me. And yet all these situations are happening. Why? Why do I have diabetes? Why am I experiencing this difficulty in this area, in this area of my life? Like I'm doing everything I know to do. Well, the only two things are either there's something wrong with me, which is what shame wants to tell me. This is what the enemy wants to bring up in condemnation. Or what if God wants to use the situation, whether he caused it or not? What if God wants to use this very thing that I'm walking through to prepare me for something greater, or to at least be able to deepen that relationship I have with him. And so that's what I would encourage somebody with, even though it probably doesn't sound like very much of an encouragement. Um, whatever it looks like, invite God into it and let him do what he wants to do in it and then trust and continue to believe that he can bring that healing.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

Amen. Yeah, it reminds me, I think Josh Howerton said this or quoted it. God's either gonna heal us instantly and supernaturally, maybe practically and medically over time, or through the our glory in heaven. You know, I don't think that necessarily means that we shouldn't desire healing and wholeness on this side of heaven, but it also should give us some some peace and rest in the fact that, hey, this life is a vapor. We're gonna look back in 80 to 85 years, maybe more for some of us, and we're gonna be there being like, wow, that was that was nothing in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, you know. Um, yeah, we'll we'll have to do a whole episode just on healing and some of those elements of it. But for the sake of time here, uh thank you, thank you, uh Sam, for for having these conversations. Um, if anybody has any questions about this specific topic, uh leave a comment. You know, I want I want people to engage with this. And I always say I don't care if we have a million views on on a video like this or we have one view from one person that really needed to hear what we're talking about. Um, but it is to start a conversation because a conversation is going to lead uh to the furthering of that discipleship that we're we're looking to promote here. Um so with that, Sam, uh would you mind praying us out of here?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:06

Of course. Lord Jesus, I just thank you again for the ability to be able to know that we are sons and daughters, that when we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, that we're invited into a family with a Father who loves us, who cares for us, and desires to speak to us, to lead us and guide us. And so, Lord Jesus, for those who are listening, for those who may be in a place of just wanting and desiring to hear you more clearly and feel like they can't, that you would bring them a place of peace right now, that you would bring them comfort, but in that moment that they would recognize that you are the perfect Father, that you love them, that you are speaking to them. And I pray, Lord God, that any place where the enemy has had an influence in those places, that his voice would be silenced and that the voice of the Holy Spirit would be so clear and so loud that you would speak to them even tonight as they're going to sleep, that you would bring them peace that passes understanding and joy that would be their strength. We thank you for all this in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:01

Amen.