Most Christians Never Share Their Faith... Here's Why

What if YOU are the only gospel someone will ever experience?

In this episode of The Fifth Gospel, Anthony Serino and Pastor Sam Edwards explore what biblical evangelism really looks like—and why it's far more natural than most Christians believe.
Through real stories of praying for strangers, following Holy Spirit promptings, and overcoming fear, they unpack practical ways to share Jesus in everyday conversations without manipulation or pressure.

They discuss the power of the Gospel, how spiritual gifts should always point people to Jesus, why community and accountability matter, and simple habits that help believers become bold witnesses wherever they go.

If you've ever wanted to share your faith but didn't know where to start, this episode gives practical, biblical encouragement that anyone can apply.

In this episode:
* What "The Fifth Gospel" really means
* How to evangelize naturally
* Overcoming fear and rejection
* Following Holy Spirit promptings
* Practical prayer for strangers
* Spiritual gifts with humility
* Church hurt and sharing truth with grace
* Simple ways to live on mission every day
If this episode encouraged you, subscribe for more conversations on discipleship, spiritual growth, and practical Christianity.



TIMESTAMPS
00:00 The Fifth Gospel Explained
03:19 Incredible Evangelism Stories
08:09 What Is the Gospel?
13:17 Is Covert Evangelism Biblical?
20:23 Sharing Jesus Without Pushing People Away
25:53 Healing Church Hurt
31:43 Following the Holy Spirit
34:07 Spiritual Gifts & Faith
37:46 Staying Humble
43:03 Community & Accountability
49:56 Practical Ways to Evangelize
01:00:01 Prayer for Boldness

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

One of the things that people by and mark struggle with the most is they feel understanded, unheard, and underappreciated.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Even if I die tomorrow, the miracle is that I will be joined with Christ for eternity. That's the greatest miracle.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Make a friend, be a friend, leave a friend.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

You are once destined for eternal hell, eternal separation from God. And Jesus said, Over my dead body, will you go into a place of separation from me? And all we have to do is to receive what he has done for us.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Either way, we I think we nailed it with the fifth gospel. Everybody I explain it to, it's good because it does create like a little hesitation at first, and then they're like, oh, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yeah. I wore the t-shirt at the conference. A few people were like, one person came up to me and they're like, oh, is that your podcast? I'm gonna look it up right now on Spotify.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Awesome. Speaking of the fifth gospel, I want to start these episodes, and we've done this before with the proclamation of what it means to be the fifth gospel.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah, I was actually gonna say that from what I've seen, you've done an amazing job with this. But we look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as the four gospels, the books of the Bible that are the gospel that speaks specifically about the work of Jesus. Not just the work of Jesus, not just his birth, his life, his death, and his resurrection, but what he calls us as believers to do and how we're called to follow his example and to walk in pursuit of relationship with him in such a way that our lives reflect the goodness of God to the world. And so the fifth gospel means that we don't just read the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but that we start to live out the gospels and that we take it seriously, that Jesus has given his life for us, has restored us back to right relationship with him. And now, as a result of that, we get to live out the reality of the kingdom that he came to bring. So the fifth gospel is us following the example of Jesus and doing it in such a way that we're inviting others to walk into that relationship as well. When we are found by Jesus, when he is revealed to us, when the Holy Spirit does the work inside of us, it's not so that we keep it to ourselves and then we go and live life the way that we used to. And so in my life, there have been times where I've been in ordinary life, walking, driving, doing whatever, and all of a sudden the Holy Spirit will highlight somebody to me and say, go talk to them. And often he doesn't tell me what I'm gonna say before I get there. And so there was one time recently, and this didn't have some amazing outcome. I think it's just very practical. I was driving, uh, I had dropped off my daughter at baseball practice, and I'm driving out of the recreation center, and there's this guy playing basketball. I see him, I keep driving, but instantly I knew, okay, Holy Spirit was highlighting him. And when I say highlighting, meaning like there was something that when I looked at him, I felt the love of God for that person, but I didn't really want to stop. I didn't really want to go talk to them. I had nothing to say in that moment that I thought of. So I just kept driving. And so I'm having this external dialogue. I'm like, God, all right, I know that I know that you're you're highlighting them right now. What do you want me to say? Like, I you're not even telling me what to say in this moment. And I'm kind of like arguing with myself because he's not actually answering in that. It's kind of like just go talk to him. So I'm like, all right, I get to the end, I turn around, I drive back and I park. And I'm walking up to this guy playing basketball by himself. And I'm like, I have no idea what I'm gonna go say to him. So I just walked up, I'm like, hey man, how's it going? Everything good? Yeah. Um, I know this sounds a little crazy, but just wanted to see how you're doing. I'm a pastor locally, and I just wanted to see, do you want prayer for anything? Is there anything that I could ask God for um on your behalf? And he's like, Yeah, of course. Like, it's very rare in my experience that people will say no to prayer again a couple of weeks ago, driving by this outdoor gym, saw a guy, can I pray for you? Yeah, absolutely. Like it totally disarms the individual, usually, because how often does somebody walk up to you, like, can I do something good for you in general? But then we're talking about prayer. And so, both instances, they just stopped what they were doing. We prayed in the middle of whether it was the park or the the the uh recreation center, and nothing really came out of it that I know of, but I knew in that moment I had an opportunity to not just talk about Jesus, but to show what it looked like, to care enough, to ask how they're doing and to lift it up to God.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, it's really interesting because what I have found is one of the things that people by and large struggle with the most is they feel unseen, unheard, and underappreciated. So just that very act of you recognizing them, and and sounds a little cliche and fluffy, but holding space for that person combined with the supernatural power of prayer and the Holy Spirit's presence there, there's things behind the scenes in the spiritual realm that are working out in that person's favor. And also, you mentioned the word practical, you know I love that word practical, um, sometimes too much so. But when it comes to evangelism, what I've found is the answer is always yes, right? It's like, should I go pray for that person? Should I go talk about Jesus? Yes, yes, go do it. And like, so what if the downside? There's no downside. And so I think also I want whoever's listening to this to understand too, it's not always, and probably more often than not, gonna be some supernatural. There may be a nudging from the Holy Spirit, like you said, but it's not always gonna be you're gonna see something, have a word of knowledge. You could, they it may lead there, but you need to take that first step to simply create that experience of an invitation for the next step. And that is part of the obedience process. Um, do you think that we're all called to go out and not even think, because I know you know scripture here. Are we all supposed to, as Christians, go out and evangelize? If so, is it supposed to look the same for all of us? Um, and I guess before you answer that, let's set some parameters around what evangelism is from a biblical perspective.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

I think the simple definition is the spreading of the good news. And that really is what it comes down to. What is the gospel? The gospel is the good news. It is the reality that even though we were broken on our own, could not ever hope to achieve what God expects of us. He sent his son Jesus, he took on the brokenness of humanity on his perfect body, he went to the cross, he went to the grave, he rose again three days later, and in our acceptance of what he has done, we receive salvation. So we were once destined for hell and separation from God, but through Jesus and through his perfect work, we are now given access into relationship with him. The places in our lives that we couldn't do it, he did it. And now he offers it to us as a gift to receive. That is the good news. And good news is a vast understatement because it is the best news that could ever be given. Because in a practical sense, if you are about to die and someone rescues you, that is amazing news. If you are in a place where you're uh there's something about to come crashing down on you and someone comes and pushes you out of the way, that is amazing news. You would talk about that to everybody. You would think about that all the time. Well, what we're talking about with the gospel is that it's an eternal reality that we were once destined for eternal hell, eternal separation from God. And Jesus said, Over my dead body will you go into a place of separation from me. And all we have to do is to receive what he has done for us. It's the perfect, beautiful grace and compassion of a God who had no responsibility. He didn't have to do that for us, but because of his love for us, because he loves you, because he loves me, because he loves every single person listening or watching, he gave everything in the most painful, gruesome, horrific death ever to die. And he did that so that we would have life. So the gospel is the understanding, it's the recognizing, it's the receiving of what Jesus did for us. And that's why it's called the good news. And so when we share that good news with others, we are evangelizing. We are giving them hope in the midst of despair. We're giving them light in the midst of darkness.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

It took me a lot longer than I should admit to realize that gospel literally meant good news.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

And actually, I've come across uh some Christians who didn't know that either. So um don't don't don't feel ashamed if you didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

We could just, if we go back to the Greek, then I I'll probably butcher this pronunciation like I did last night at church. Um, you engeleon, and it means a good message. The good news is the redemption through Jesus. It literally is God's good news, and it includes the entirety of the Bible, but it's not limited to just the scripture, but it is the reality of what Jesus has done for us. And so in the word, it speaks about the good news very often. Uh, Jesus speaks about the gospel. And then Paul speaks about the gospel, and he says in Romans chapter one, verse 16, for I am not ashamed of the gospel, of the good news, because Paul recognized that this speaking and the receiving of the good news is God's power unto salvation. And so I want us to hear this that the gospel is not just the theory or the understanding that there is a real God who truly came to this earth and truly gave his life, but that there is actually power that is contained within the message of the gospel. Which is why when you share the gospel with somebody, you have to realize you're not trying to convince somebody of something. You're not trying to say, hey, go shop at Target because it's better than Walmart or like the Yankees because they're better than the Mets, which they are. We're not trying to convince somebody of something on paper. We're presenting them with an opportunity for God Himself, for the Holy Spirit to grab a hold of something within them and to bring them into the reality of what it is to have a relationship with a loving God. That's that's powerful. The power of God unto salvation. Not our ability to communicate it perfectly, not our ability to be able to be really convincing or intimidating or to try to, as we see sometimes in you know, different YouTube videos of trying to like beat them over the head with it. It's allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to the individual through the words that we are willing to speak, especially when when Paul said, I am not ashamed of the gospel. So we can't be ashamed of bringing the truth of what God has said.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

So this sounds really good conceptually, and I I know it to be true, and I have conviction on exactly what it is that you're talking about. And also, and maybe this is a little monsters under the bed, meaning it doesn't really exist or doesn't happen as frequently as I I may say it does, is the fact that a lot of people have an aversion to certain words, Jesus, Christian, church, prayer, Bible. And something that's been on my mind is this idea of covert evangelism. Do you think there's ever a place for that? Because I think it can be a fine line between being ashamed and also doing it in a way that's skilled or artful, so that we can not necessarily manipulate somebody, but we can meet them where they're at in a language that they speak that's not Christianese, that's a little bit more approachable. And one of the examples I'll give is like I come from the New Age occult community, and I've had extensive time with these individuals, both one-to-one and in large group settings. If I talk about the Holy Spirit, they may uh react, they may have some resistance. However, if I use another term that's in the Bible, the spirit of truth, now all of a sudden they're open to it.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah. So the packaging.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, what do we do? Do we have to have a certain packaging? Is that a secondary issue, if it if an issue at all? What do you have to say about this idea of covert evangelism?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

What I've seen is that there are some individuals, especially if they have the assignment of an evangelist on their life, that everybody they see, they are gripped with this reality that if that person doesn't receive Jesus, that their life is destined when they leave this earth to be spent away, separated from God in hell. And so there is an urgency that comes on it that everybody has to hear the word and they have to hear it right now in the clearest possible way. And there are absolutely moments where that is necessary. Absolutely without question. Um, moments where the the Holy Spirit puts it on our heart. There's an urgency behind it. I think to um a moment where I was working and there was a car accident in front of the building in which I worked. They were sending in the helicopter. I saw this young man on the ground and they were treating him. And I went over to him. I can't say like I sprinted over to him, but I was like, kind of like, I need to go, I need to go see what's going on. I need to go pray for him. And so I went over and he's laying on the ground. They had taken him out of the car. You could see where his head hit the windshield, and he's laying there and he's scared. And I went up to him and I said, Hey man, uh, I just want to pray for you. Can I pray for you? And it was before all the paramedics had arrived. There was a lady who was um, I think, off duty and she was trying to help. And she's asking him all these questions. The moment that I say, Can I pray for you? He's he told her, he's like, Stop. He like told her to stop. He's like, Yes, I want you to pray for me. Please pray for me. And so in that moment, I was able to grab his hand and just pray for him. He was, he was scared. And I was able to, first of all, pray for him physically that this wouldn't be something that would take his life, but also to be able to speak the reality of who Jesus was and that he was with him in that moment if he would receive him. And he was so grateful for it. Now that wasn't a moment in which I could covertly uh, you know, present the gospel. There wasn't a slow play. Like his life legitimately was uh in question as whether or not he was gonna survive. They were sending the hot the helicopter. And I reached out later on and thank God he made it and he and we spoke and he was very grateful. So that was a moment in which there was an urgency behind it. But I would say the vast majority of the time, we do want to have the long approach in not going up to somebody in the middle of their work day and just being like, hey man, you're going to hell. You need Jesus. Like that's not usually going to be received very well. Most often in America, we've all had an experience with Christianity. Unfortunately, a lot of it has not been good, depending on the denomination that we've grown up in. We've seen a lot of men involved in it. And, you know, oh, they're just after my money. Oh, they just want me to do this. There's manipulation involved, abuse, those kind of things. And so people have their own version of the gospel, and it's not the gospel of Jesus. And so they hear the word Jesus, they hear the Bible, they hear the expression of the Holy Spirit, like you said, and they're like, I already know what that is, and I don't want anything to do with it, because they're thinking of man's expression, and they actually forecast an understanding that they have of man on God, as if God is the imperfect one, as if God was the one who allowed or created that abuse or that trauma in their life. What we have to do is live out the gospel so that people see our lives. And as a result of seeing our lives, now they start to see the gospel, the fifth gospel, right? They see it at work in us and they actually want to know more about it. And maybe in that moment everything is going well and they're not really interested. But at the moment where things start to go wrong, where there's questions, where they start to have this internal dialogue and they're wondering about purpose and meaning, we want them to think about us because we've actually lived it out. And this is why Jesus says in Matthew chapter five, he calls us the salt of the earth. And then he says, You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp and hides it under a basket, but they put it on the stand and it gives light to everyone in the house. So, in the same way, I want you to actually become that light and to walk it out for the world so that they would see your good deeds and glorify your Father that is in heaven. He's saying, live it out, be light in darkness so that people will see your life and actually be drawn to it, because they might be in darkness, but they see that there is a light in you. So, to answer your question in a very long way, yes, I think that the way that we approach people matters. And if we can do it in relationship and as an extension of our lives, that is the absolute best way to do it because it brings an authenticity and it can bring a correction to some of the wrong belief systems that they may have because of the church or people doing things in a way that didn't represent Jesus well.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, because I feel like sometimes it's like trying to talk to someone who only speaks Mandarin and trying to speak to them in English. Yeah. You know, they're just either at best they're gonna be confused and not know, or they're gonna get offended because you're trying to get a point across them that they clearly don't understand and you're you're beating a dead horse, so to speak. You know, I I do think that there's a way to communicate with certain demographics, let's say specifically the new age community, or perhaps even someone that you know that's experienced church hurt, or someone who identifies as an atheist, there's probably ways. I don't know if softening the language is is the right way. Because I'm thinking, as you're telling me the story, when you went up to the guy on the basketball court, he could have things that have happened in his past where even you identifying as a pastor could have instantly put his guard up.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

So I don't know. I guess if we could put a period on this, if you were to give some best practices for specific language to use when approaching somebody, yeah, obviously it takes some discernment to know. Okay, obviously the guy in the car accident, you're not gonna be like, oh, should I say Jesus or not? No. But like maybe the guy at the basketball court who that, you know, maybe there's some discernment there to use different language. What would you say about specific language to be used?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah, just be real, don't be weird.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Like we by the way, I say this sometimes to people like this is gonna sound weird and this or this might be a little weird. Like recently I've had some dreams about people that I haven't talked to in a long time, don't even think about. Yeah. And the Holy Spirit has told me that's because I have to pray for them. And so I've actually reached out to a couple of people, like, hey, on Facebook, this is really weird. We haven't talked in 15 years. Yeah, I had a dream about you, and sometimes that's a prompting from God to pray for you. If you need prayer for anything, let me know.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

In your recognition of that it could come across weird, you're actually, you know, not being weird. Yeah, exactly. You're like, I understand this is not just your normal conversation that you're gonna have. When I went to the guy in the basketball court, um, I just said, hey man, like, listen, like, there's nothing crazy about this. I belong to, I'm a pastor of a church. Like, it's just to speak to the fact that like I am a Christian. I believe that God is speaking. And I just felt like He He wanted me to come just talk to you and see if there's anything that I could pray for you for. Like, yes, it's still kind of weird because it's not normal, it's not ordinary, but my desire was not for me. I wasn't trying to get out of uh something out of it. I wasn't selling him something, I was genuinely walking up to him because of a desire to want to see him receive and be benefited from it. So we shouldn't walk up and and talk about righteousness and sanctification and and the transformation power of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

What about you're going to hell, like these street preachers? I mean, sometimes I mean I see them all over, like not all over, I mean more in in bigger cities, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

I mean, if we ever put ourselves in that position of if somebody came and yelled something at us, how would we respond to that? Like, I am a pastor. If someone runs up to me and starts yelling at me for the gospel, I'm gonna be like, hey, back up, dude. Like, there's something wrong with the way that you're approaching this. And we want to be light, we want to be something that is attractive to the world.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, but you see videos on like social media of these street preachers who are clearly like some of them are fire and brimstone, and then some of them are a little more caring and compassionate, and then they post videos. I know it's just social media could be fabricated to some extent, but some people do respond. So, what if they spend a whole year out on the street preaching hell, fire and brimstone, but they get one person saved? Is it worth it?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

I'm a big proponent of the starting place determines the outcome. And so in the early 90s, there was a lot of uh emphasis put around certain productions, even that would really focus on what hell was and and seeing the torment of people in hell. And I think that there is in some ways a you know, a really a benefit to the recognition of it's a real thing. But what I also saw, and this is not across the board, but that there are individuals who came to Christ in that place of fear. But fear is not necessarily a lasting motivator because as you go back into life and circumstances happen and things happen, like you're not really going to that fear is. Going to be the same motivation as it used to be. And it doesn't lead you into relationship with a loving God as much as it should. It tends to bring more self-effort, condemnation, those kind of things, instead of the recognition of a loving savior who brings you into relationship. Um, and so yeah, I mean, God is not limited, He could use the most flawed among us and the most uh, you know, the worst maybe methods and still speak to people. But in general, that's not the approach that we want to take. Um, we want to be those that are trying to embody the example of Jesus. And Jesus so often was the one who would go into the places with the hurt and the broken and the rejected and the outcast and show them love. And just by his mere presence, he was actually showing them who God was. And so we want to take that approach much more than the you're living in sin, you're broken. How could you do that thing? Um, because that is going to immediately cause defenses to go up and it's going to be a rejection to the good news that you're bringing to them.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Absolutely. And I think at the end of the day, the most important thing is that we approach people in these situations with love and compassion first and foremost. It's interesting because I come from a business and marketing background. One of the common frameworks for marketing is PAS, pain, agitate solution. So you identify someone's pain and what they're going through. You agitate it so you really talk about their symptoms and what they're feeling, and you paint that picture for them so they can step into it, and then you hit them with the solution. It can be a little manipulative, but if you're, I think if you're doing it for a good reason because it's a service or product that you know can actually help somebody, great. Same thing with the gospel. It's like you're sharing the good news is that we were broken, right? We're sinners. We needed a savior. Why not try Jesus? You know, and then that's the solution. Um, so it does follow some sort of framework. I do, I do hesitate with speaking to people sometimes overtly, because what I like I sound like a broken record here. So many people have experienced some what they I don't like the term church hurt, whether that's like the Catholic guilt. I went to Catholic school. I know that was in the 90s and 80s, or not 80s, the 90s and early 2000s, this kind of guilt and condemnation, maybe not intentionally by the school, but definitely the kind of Catholic theme in general at that time. That's what it felt like. We also have people that we mentioned before who were abused, let's say, either by a pastor or somebody in the church, both big T trauma, small T trauma. Um, how do you approach those people who have faith? Maybe in their heart, they do still believe in God, but they're kind of anti-church at the same time, anti-Jesus, and maybe anti-that's not the right term, but you get what I'm saying. Like they're kind of still resistant to it. What do you say to that person who's been hurt? Not not like they don't even know about the good, like they know the good news, they know about Jesus already, but they've they've gone astray.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah. I think when our energy communicates some level of pressure because we're sharing the gospel with them, they resist because of whatever you just said, because of the pain, the trauma, the church hurt. If they respond, then we start to get anxious and we start to get, well, I I've gotta, I've gotta correct this wrong thinking, I've got to defend what I believe, I gotta tell them the truth. We start to take the responsibility upon ourselves instead of recognizing that the only way anybody walks into salvation, transformation, and relationship with God is through the Holy Spirit. It is not my responsibility to formulate the perfect package to speak this in order for them to receive it. I'm gonna do my best. I'm going to be mindful of where they might be coming from. I'm gonna be sensitive if I sense some of that stuff coming up. But ultimately, I'm not gonna go into that place of anxiety where now I feel like I've got to do something to convince them. It's like, okay, Holy Spirit, like you see what's going on here. The Holy Spirit knows exactly what's going on inside of them, knows exactly why they believe and feel and and are receiving or not receiving. And so, Holy Spirit, is there something you want to say and want me to say? And maybe at that point he's just like, Yeah, just back off. Just let's just continue to pray for them. Or maybe he'll give you insight into something and give you the ability to speak. And maybe you start speaking and you're like, oh, I didn't, I don't even remember like formulating that thought. But when we don't go into it into anxiety, we go into a place of yieldedness where he can use us and speak through us to accomplish his purpose. We can't take the responsibility upon ourselves to do the work that only God can do. Because when we do, we tap into human understanding and reasoning, and then we could actually find ourselves getting angry with somebody in a conversation where we intended to bring them more of Jesus and we've shifted into our own strength, and now we're actually doing a disservice because they're getting me instead of him.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

You bring up a good point, and I think part of the inherent, I'll say, problem of evangelism, it's not a problem because it's factual, but there's an underlying premise if I'm evangelizing to somebody that I'm right and they're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

But at the same time, there is a truth objectively that we know and believe in. And what you just mentioned, which is the point I want to drive home, is this is a collaboration with the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

And I am guilty of this sometimes. I go into my own logic, my own reasoning, my own articulation, and I get angry. I'm like, oh, you're doing that thing, like you're telling me how you just went to a psychic or a medium, and I'm telling, no, you can't do that. I'm trying to correct, but like they never respond to that, you know? And the Holy Spirit's always going to speak through love and compassion. And I think what I need to do a better job of is in the moment, in real time, just like I'm having this conversation with you right now, also in my mind and heart praying, Holy Spirit, what do you want me to know about this situation? What do you need me to say? Where do you want me to go? Where are you? Sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

The more that we can live in an awareness of what he's saying in the moment, the more effective we could be at being a vessel, a conduit, being an expression of God on this earth. But that usually doesn't start in the moment of pressure or when we're talking to somebody. That is developed in quiet time with the Lord. That's developed in our car as we're driving and we're turning off everything and we're just allowing him to speak and we're becoming more familiar with his voice, like we talked about in the previous episodes, um, because he wants to speak to us in those moments. So is the channel open and clear? Because the enemy will come in in those moments and be like, listen, you're it's not working. Like, what do you think you're doing? You think you can really talk to them? And then maybe you even start to like, it's crazy, you can start to question what you're saying. And you're like, wait a second, I know what I'm saying, but the flesh gets involved in that. And that's where we shift into uh the weapons of our warfare becoming carnal. Paul says, the weapons of your warfare are not carnal, they're not to go after other individuals and people. You're going after the spiritual realm, the demonic forces of evil, the places of confusion and delusion in their lives. So the more that we could stay focused on the Holy Spirit, the more that we are equipped with the tools that we need to speak his truth. And uh back to your question about like, has there been moments of uh evangelizing that have had maybe unique outcomes? There was one time I was working with these guys, and and you never kind of knew who you were gonna be working with that day, but I was with these two guys, an older guy, a younger guy, both of them, you know, on the surface, about as far away from God as you can imagine. And they're asking me questions because they knew I was a pastor. All right, so like you think you can hear from God was one of the questions. And I'm like, absolutely, I feel like I hear from God. And they're like, uh, they're like, prove it. And I was like, okay, like I'm not, this is not like a magic trick. I'm like, I'm not going to, you know, but they're like, all right, prove, prove that you can hear from God. I'm like, listen, I'm not saying definitively that I'm gonna say something right now that's gonna be so profound, but at the same time, God is real. So just I close my eyes and um I forget the name of the street. I'll I'll remember, but um the name of a street popped in, and I said the specific street name that came into my spirit at that moment. And the one guy looks at me with his eyes that open up, he's like, Are you kidding me? He's like, That's the street that I grew up on. That's the exact street that I grew up on. And then out, so this is the older guy, and the younger guy's like, Are you are you kidding me? Like, what is happening right now? I'm like, Well, you asked if God speaks. This was just a very small thing and a very small example of it, but God is speaking and he knows everything about you, and he knows everything about you, he knows your life, he knows where you grew up, he knows all of these things. Was it mulberry? It was like the name of a, but it was a specific street name. And it was a word of knowledge, something that I couldn't have known on my own, and not like the best way to go about that, because I'm not walking around trying to put the Lord to the test and be like, all right, you've got to perform here. But at the same time, the Holy Spirit in me knows what's going on in you, and God loves you enough that He wants you to know how much He loves you and knows you. And so in that moment, I was able to speak that thing and um I prayed with both of them for salvation. Now, I don't know, we didn't really work together very much longer after that, so I'm not sure exactly what happened, but that was a spiritual, a supernatural expression of the Holy Spirit who cared more about them than I did, but I didn't get fearful when they're like, prove it. It's like okay, let's see. Yeah, what do you want to do?

SPEAKER_01 32:07

It's reminds me, and that's a great story because you were talking about spiritual gifts last night uh in your sermon, and we use these spiritual gifts to unify as the body and bride of Christ, right? It's also what I find in scripture when the disciples and Jesus use their power and authority in the supernatural, it was often an invitation to then lead someone to Jesus. And I think where I got mistaken for a long time is like someone had to convert first, someone had to give their life to Jesus first. So can you speak on using our gifts, like whether it's healing, whether it's word of knowledge and pre in in that scenario, using that at the forefront to be the invitation? Because very often someone's like, if you start talking about their childhood street, and then the Holy Spirit gives you some more words of knowledge and your prayer is so specific to what they're going through, yeah, that's a pretty good invitation to be like, hey, yeah, this God that I serve is is the God. Yeah. How about how about you join me? You know. Absolutely. So, what would you say about using your gifts as an evangelical tool?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

I think in our awareness of the gift that's on our life and in the developing of that gift and what it is to walk in it, it's absolutely to point people back to Jesus. So uh every gift that we are given is not from us. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. God gives it to us. It's to bring Him glory. Uh, it's to edify, as you said, the body of Christ. It's the for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry. But in glorifying God, uh and what it's said in Matthew chapter five, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father that is in heaven. So when I operate in the gifting that God's put on my life, whether it's communication or it's one of the spiritual giftings that He's placed on me or you, I'm creating an opportunity for a wall to come down, for a door to be open, for there to be an attentive individual who may not have been otherwise. So if the the guy gets in the car accident and he's laying on the side of the road and I can go and I can minister to him in that moment and I pray for healing over his body, it's an opportunity for him to be able to know the love of God, to see the power of God and to receive him. If it's the word of knowledge, the word of wisdom, if it's a prophetic word, whatever that looks like, um, it's giving an opportunity for the door to be opened to the good news. Because the incredible thing, the miraculous thing is not that I knew the name of a street. The miraculous thing is not even if someone is healed. The miraculous thing is the eternal reality that they're being invited into. Because even if I die tomorrow, the miracle is that I will be joined with Christ for eternity. That's the greatest miracle. Like if I receive a financial blessing today, and that's like, wow, look at this financial blessing. No, no, it's not look at the financial blessing, it's look at the one who gave the financial blessing. And so every gift is meant to point back to who God is. And as our gifts are on display, and it's we're not using them to show others how great we are, but to show how great He is, then we're giving an opportunity for them to have a relationship with the very same God, to receive the very same Holy Spirit, and to operate in the giftings that come from the same Spirit, which is what is what we're told in 1 Corinthians uh chapter 12, that it's by the same spirit that we are given the ability to walk out these giftings. And we're giving them an invitation to do the same.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

This is what I had to learn the hard way is that if there's any ounce of ego, pride, or like look at me in the gifting, it's it's one, it's dangerous, and two, you're not gonna operate as effectively as you should be. And I think a lot of Christians need to be more honest with themselves because it is cool, like it feels cool, right? Like, and maybe it's a maturity thing for sure, but you've done it enough times you're like, oh, this is just part of the normal supernatural experience of having Jesus as my Lord and Savior and having the Holy Spirit, the same spirit who raised Christ from the dead, living in me, right? Like it eventually a pride becomes normal. But definitely at first, it's like, oh, I had a word of knowledge with somebody, I saw something in the spiritual realm. I saw, and like it can still tug at that ego, at that pride, right? So, what advice would you give someone who like has that? Like they know they have a gift, they maybe it's a supernatural ability to see or they get words of knowledge, and they can still feel that's like it feels cool that they're doing it and not necessarily just the Holy Spirit doing it. Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? Like, do you see that happening?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Oh, I 100% know what you're saying, especially if you have any need for uh validation, any need to be recognized, which some personalities are more naturally geared that way. Um, I think back to Pastor Jeff at our church um telling the story of being in a foreign country. I may have shared it before in the podcast, but praying for healing and like he wasn't like, oh, I'm so confident that this woman that is completely bent over is gonna stand up straight, but he prayed for her. And as he's praying for her, she stands up, she leaves, she goes and tells everybody in the village what just happened, that this miraculous uh event just took place. Everybody comes in. He's like, I'm praying for everybody, and healing is happening across the board. So he goes, the next, I don't know, the next day, the next week, he's someplace else. And this guy comes up and like, can you pray for him? He's deaf. And he's like, Of course. I just saw all these healings, no problem. Bring them over to me. He like tells a story, like, there's such a confidence about this. So he's like, I saw God do it before. He's like, I could, I could heal this guy. And so he's like doing everything, he's shouting, he's clicking in his ears, he's sticking his finger in his mouth and sticking in his ears. He's like, I've terrorized this poor guy for however long. And he walks away, nothing happened. And he says, God whispers into his ear, hey, uh, from now on, I do the healings, not you. Amen. Like this understanding that, like, as soon as we get involved in the process, it does feed something in us. And this is the case for every gifting. For me as a pastor, for us hosting a podcast, for those who are operating in any spiritual gifting, we've got to deal with our internal deficits because our internal deficits are the places where we are trying to consistently fill that place to give me meaning, identity, worth, and value. Maybe I'm trying to prove something to somebody, a parent who's no longer there, a spiritual leader who I used to, you know, be under. I'm trying to prove myself to them. Um, and it becomes more about me than it becomes about him. And that is dangerous. So uh what I would suggest in terms of practicality in this place, especially if you recognize it, is something that I often do. Uh, Psalm 139, which I've ref referenced this many times, but just even the last, the whole, whole chapter is so good. But verses 23 and 24, search me, O God, and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any grievous way within me and lead me in the way everlasting. So as we recognize these places, I would say just an honest place of repentance, which can look just like this. God, I know that when I, let's say me, I preached that message, I felt so good about myself, but afterwards, all I kept thinking about was how good I did. And I recognize this need for affirmation in my life. I repent for that. Because honestly, I'm given this gift to be able to share your word and to speak to your children, to people that would be able to hear and know you. I don't want this to be about me. So I repent for that thing. Search me, know me. And if there's a reason that that's happening, if there's something right now going on inside of me that needs to have that validation, can you reveal it to me and bring healing and correction to that place? Because what I know is that I've seen other great men of God. I'm not calling myself a great man of God, by the way, but other men of God who have walked in these things.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

I'll say it. Pastor Sam won't say it, I'll say it. He is.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

I receive it in faith that have made the gifting and the platform more about them than it was about what they got to do. They lost sight. They lost sight of the fear of God and the one that they were serving. And as a result, it led them to all kinds of trouble, which then led the people that they were overseeing to be able to walk away from God. And that's a terrible thing because we're all gonna stand before God one day and we're gonna have to give an account for our lives. And I don't want to be one that followed my own way and my own desires and my own gratification in terms of look at me and to realize that I missed out on what God called me to do.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

I was thinking about this exact thing recently, uh just yesterday, in fact, because I feel like a lot of ministries become businesses. And this is not a conversation necessarily about monetizing ministry. It's about the slow slip into the need to create extra biblical processes and frameworks and systems that are seemingly proprietary to a person facilitating it so that someone thinks they need that pastor, that person, or that minister more than they need Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

That's well said.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

And I see this in specifically deliverance. Deliverance is like huge, a huge topic right now. And you see all these people like courts of heaven, and like, yeah, I do the specific deliverance process and these like kind of visualizations and specific prayers and whatnot. And I think there is some utility in it, but I always remind people is like you can experience these things spiritually, supernaturally, like freedom and deliverance, one of two ways, like one under the law, just like kind of how demons operate, and two, like under the power and authority of Jesus, which is not jumping through hoops and going necessarily down this checklist in order to receive that, right? So, what would you say about that when when, and I don't want to get too far off topic here, but this idea or fact that people, pastors, ministers are maybe unknowingly and accidentally creating systems and frameworks that are at best a misinterpretation of scripture of scripture, and at worst, they're a blatant sidetrack, uh, even perversion of what's in scripture and maybe not even in scripture.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

The best way I know to combat that is in community with the right people around you or the right voices who have the ability to check our motives, to be able to recognize the motivations behind things, and to be able to look at things through the lens of what are we doing this for? Is it for the betterment of the body of Christ? Are we serving the body of Christ, or is this becoming more about us, our brand, our our church, our pastor, whatever that is, and we become more aware of what we are doing and how we're promoting ourselves than um, then the ultimate purpose, which is to bring men and women to Jesus. So I think in community, having people who are truth tellers, people who are willing to uh speak into those places and really just staying in a place of being grounded with the spirit who can reveal the motivations of the heart.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Yeah, this is exactly why I am such an advocate for being involved in your church and finding a good church, first and foremost, like someone who's steeped in scripture and and and community, like you said, and hierarchy of authority and people hold each other accountable. Because I have a friend right now who's very, he's not anti church. He's like, I believe in the big sea church, but I don't think I necessarily need to go to a church. But then where are your checks and balances? Where's your community? Where's your expectation from your peers?

SPEAKER_00 44:06

That's a really good way to stay in a place where you don't have to change. Where you can just remain the same because no one's actually holding you accountable. That's not the way it was designed. And I would say and I'm not gonna say comment if uh if you disagree, but very often it's because obviously church hurt, but usually there's something in your life that you know is gonna be challenged if you're in community and you don't want it to be challenged.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

And that's that's a problem for any of us, especially if we look at the fact that this earth, this life on earth, is the it's the precursor to eternity. Like we don't want to be just making excuses for our stuff. We want to be prepared for the moment that we stand before Jesus. Because once we're standing before Jesus, we don't get to go back and edit the places of our life where we were living in sin or living in compromise. Like we want to deal with that stuff now, and it's God's grace that we get to deal with it now. Because if we don't, then there are there are rewards for those who actually live this life in trust and faith in Jesus. And I do believe that there are also an accounting for the places where we failed to do so. So community helps us do that, and that's part of the reason why God calls us to not forsake the gathering. Uh, first of all, the gathering.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Represent.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Uh the gathering of believers being the local church.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Yeah, and and speaking of the gathering, of course, if you're local uh to the Hudson Valley here, uh Pastor Sam is a lead pastor there at the gathering in Poughkeepsie. Uh great service. I started going uh months ago because of the depth that not just because you're a great speaker, but because there's clearly a tangible presence of the Holy Spirit felt in the depth of the experience that uh that we're a part of there.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

That's what we're going after.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

And uh also the second greatest thing that happened this week, other than the Knicks winning last night, is that we crossed over a thousand subscribers. So I want to thank the first thousand uh subscribers here, uh specifically on YouTube. Um, if you haven't done so already, make sure you hit that subscribe button, uh, like this video, share it. You know, we're not necessarily focused on the number of eyeballs. I do think that the number uh has utility, has merit. Um, but as I've said before, uh there was the analogy that I heard is this true story about uh these cobras in uh India. And what happened is they had this issue where these giant cobras were attacking small children, livestock, and it was a real issue for the government over there. I think they were under British rule at the time. And so they created this initiative, this system, where they would pay a bounty for every cobra that a villager killed and presented. This worked for a little bit, but then the villagers got smart and they started breeding their own cobras. Well, what ended up happening? They ended up having a worse issue because they were tracking the wrong metric. And so very often, eyeballs, even the dollars in your bank account, um uh the number of followers that you have on social media, it's not necessarily the best metric to be chasing. All that to say, we are not focused necessarily on um number of people who subscribe. We're most important most importantly, we're focused on depth and the seriousness of even if it's one listener who we get to be more serious for Christ, and to go out and actually put the gospel into practice. That's our mission. So that was a long-winded to say thank you to our to our current subscribers and anybody who's going to join us on this journey going forward.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Yeah, I love that. And yeah, it's pretty, pretty exciting. Um, this whole the way that this all came about was definitely a God thing, divine orchestration. So I'm grateful to get to do it and grateful for those that prayerfully we get to impact. And we just want to keep creating disciples and empowering believers in Jesus to go out and to do the work of the of the ministry to be the fifth gospel, to be those that carry the gospel of Jesus. So yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

So speaking of living this out, let's put a little bow on this episode and get practical. Uh, you mentioned Pastor Jeff, Pastor Jeff Banke from the gathering. He did a a message on evangelism and a framework that was very simple but also profound was this idea of make a friend, be a friend, lead a friend to Jesus. So, within that framework, how can someone today who's listening to this episode who's like, oh, I I feel that energy? And there's this word I love, it's alacrity. It means a cheerful readiness. It's like that feeling that you get when you have a vacation coming up, like the next day. And it doesn't matter what you have to do, it doesn't matter how early you have to get up. You haven't packed yet, but you have like this cheerful readiness to like get on the road and go. I want people to feel like that after this episode, but what do they do with that alacrity from a practical perspective? And how do we fit it within that framework, maybe of make a friend, be a friend, lead a friend to Jesus? Where does someone start?

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Yeah, I mentioned in that first interaction that there was a highlighting that took place. And I think that the more we become sensitive, like if we start to ask God for opportunities, He's going to bring them to us. And so be aware in the workplace, in your family, in public, if there is a highlighting that's taking place. Um, and I would say very often the initial thought is, oh, I should just pray for them from afar. And yes, maybe, and definitely you should pray for them. But very often, or at least my experience has been if God is highlighting somebody, it's for a reason, and you don't know that they might not be in the perfect place in that moment to just need to receive something. And so I would say, be ready to go to somebody and just to say, Listen, I attend church locally, I'm a believer in Jesus. I just wanted to pray for you. Is there anything in your life that's going on that I could just come together with you and just pray for? As simple as that statement is, it opens up people, it drops down their walls, and more often than not, that person is going to be very receptive to what you want to bring to them, especially if the Holy Spirit is the one who's directed you to them. Um, the more you do it, the easier it gets. And this is the case in the giving of our finances. This is the case in the giving of our time. It's the case in putting ourselves out there to do something like this. We're not doing it because we're checking a box, and we're not doing it because uh someone listened to this podcast. We're doing it because Jesus, God Himself, gave His life for us, and what an opportunity we have to speak about Him and to share His love with somebody else. And so I would just begin to personally just start to pray that you would have a deeper understanding and revelation of the love that God has for you as an individual, and second, to give you a heart for the people around you.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

What's the question, though? If I'm if I'm sitting there and I'm ready today to go out and evangelize and I want to pray first and get in alignment with God's will for this day of evangelism, what is the question that I want to ask the Holy Spirit first?

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Uh, will you break my heart for what breaks yours? Like, I want to see through a lens that is not my natural understanding. So if I see the person and I see somebody operating in dysfunction, which it just seems to be more and more evident lately, instead of being like, what a screw up, or or what's going on with them? Holy Spirit, is there something you want me to say to them? Is there something you want me to share with them? Yeah, I mean, definitely you might see something, you might look at somebody and have a memory that goes back to something. You might think of a song, you might think of a movie, you might see them and and actually start to see something around them where God gives you insight into their life or demonic uh assault or oppression that's going on. This is again where our quiet time with the Lord is leading us into these moments. So I always just say, when you're driving in the car and you're by yourself, just turn everything off and just let him speak. Start, let him begin to reveal how he speaks to you and become familiar with it. So that way when you're in the grocery store, when you're in the, I don't know why car dealership just came to my mind. So maybe that's for somebody in particular, and you're you're talking to somebody, you're you're listening to what they're saying, but you're listening with the ears of the spirit because there might be something that they say that opens up a door where you can be like, hey, have you ever thought about this thing? Um inviting them to church, uh, praying for them, these simple things um in response to what God shows you, it can just be very practical evangelism.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah, and what's helped me too, and I think this was another suggestion uh from Pastor Jeff was when in doubt, ask questions. And so if you have that prompting from the Holy Spirit, yeah, someone's highlighted and he asks them, Hey, is there something you need prayer for? I don't know. It's this is weird, but God put it on my heart to pray for you. Yeah, is there something that you're hoping for or dreaming of, you know? And maybe you don't know where to even go with the prayer. It's like, okay, well, oh, so tell me more about that. Like, oh, what does that mean to you? It's you know, I think about sales and marketing again. It's like one of the ways that you combat objections is by you continue to repeat the objection back to them as a question. Okay. So if they're like, oh, it's just too expensive. Yeah, like, oh, it's too expensive. Like, oh, well, we're saving up for this for this trip. Uh, me and my wife have been talking about for oh, so do you do you think your wife would have an objection to this? And like, so you just kind of keep going down that objection list in the form of questions. And I think that can be used from an ethical uh uh way uh in evangelism. The more questions you ask, the more information you're gonna get. It's gonna be more authentic information. Okay, and it also gives the opportunity for the Holy Spirit to speak into that. Yeah. Um, the other thing I was at lunch with a friend uh a few weeks ago, and this is a really beautiful way to segue into uh evangelism, is we were sitting down to eat, our food was brought to the table, the servant, the server puts it down and he just goes, Hey, uh, we pray before we eat. Is there anything that you need prayer for?

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

And it was like the most casual, yeah, non-weird thing. And the guy was like, Oh, yeah, actually. And like, you know, I just I want to, I kind of want to get out of work in here, you know? Yeah. And that was what we prayed for.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

And it was like, it just was so it wasn't weird at all. And that's I think that's a really practical thing. I would actually challenge people who are listening. Is if you're questioning how to get into this uh process of evangelism the next time you're out at dinner or lunch, yeah, say that to the server. Yeah, hey, this may sound a little weird, but we pray before we eat. Is there anything that you're you're you're hoping for that you're struggling with? I'd love to pray for you. And then just let them walk away. And then tip that, yeah, tip them well for sure. And that's the thing. Let them walk away. Whether this guy actually stayed at the side of the table as we were praying. Um, but they may walk away and that's fine too, because we're planting a seed. So once we've identified someone with the Holy Spirit that's been highlighted to us, what's that next step? Because I want to make sure people have a step-by-step process here.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

I think it depends. It depends on personality, depends on gifting. But I would say that you're walking up to them with just a genuine concern. Hey, noticed you over here. Um, just wanted to know like, is there anything that that you would need prayer for in your life, which is the example that I gave. You notice a need, you notice somebody who is in need of something, and they're like, hey, I need food. You go buy them food. They're somebody who's struggling with something. You don't just uh kind of just see them and ignore them. Uh, me and our our worship leader, Joshua, were driving down the road on our way to church and saw a woman who was broken down in like one of the middle lanes of Route 9, and you could tell she was frantic, and everyone's like annoyed, beeping, driving around. I'm like, bro, we got to go help her. So we pulled over on the side of the road, ran over to her, pushed her car out of danger, got her out of the way, and then we helped get her car to her house. And then another one of our friends, Moose, came along. We towed her car all the way there. Police officer came and kind of followed us. It was this whole orchestration.

unknown 56:02

She didn't just pray for her casting to me.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah, exactly. It wasn't like, hey, I'm the way by. Lord, pray that her car would just miraculously start to work in the middle of the road. So, of course, you know, as we're doing it, I'm like, hey, uh, we have a church right here. We'd love for you to come visit us. Turns out that she was a believer. Um, and so that was awesome because we actually were part of the answer to her prayer that she was praying in that moment. But if she wasn't, it was an opportunity. Other people were reacting in anger and frustration. They're thinking about themselves, and we have the ability to step up and to be the hands and feet of Jesus and to go actually be someone who helps. It was an opportunity to share who God was.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Yeah, it reminds me of a really good piece of advice I got from someone uh who I was mentored by because I used to be on a lot of podcasts, interviewed in one mountain, and said, never tell a story for the first time. And I think that is critical with a testimony, not necessarily that has to be so refined and polished, but you do want to know your points. And also at the same time, the second piece of advice that I've come to know and understand is really useful because that does not have to be law. I think of blind men, Luke Nine. Yes, and they say, What happened? Yeah, they say, I was blind, now I see. Yeah, and that's sometimes that's as simple as it is as it needs to be about that. Um with that, let's play us out of here.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

Lord Jesus, I thank you first and foremost for what you've done for us. That the good news is the reflection of your life, your death, your resurrection, and the invitation that we have to come into a place of seeing you as Lord and Savior. Lord Jesus, I pray for the people that you place in our lives, for the people that you want to highlight to us, that Holy Spirit, that you would reveal the individuals that we need to speak to, that you would break our hearts for what breaks yours, that we would walk in compassion and love for the lost, for the hurting, for the broken, and that and all these things that we would recognize that as much as we want to see lives transformed, that you want it so much more, that these are individuals that you've designed, that you've created, that you've purposed and put plans and giftings on their life, Lord God. And so we pray that we would be a part of your process, that we would be conduits of your goodness, that we would share our faith, share our testimony, but that in all these things, that as we speak the gospel, as we speak the words of Jesus, that you would fill them, that you would be the one because you're the only one that can, that would bring them into salvation and knowing you as their Lord and Savior. Thank you for all this in Jesus' name. And one more thing, I just pray for a boldness, I pray for a courage, I pray for a Holy Spirit empowerment, that this would not just be words, but that there would be a reality of the fire of God within them to go and to spread the good news of your kingdom, to respond to the great commission, and to say, Here I am, send me in Jesus' name, amen.