God wants YOU back (here's how we know)

Do you feel too far gone for God—or afraid of what will happen if you return?

In this episode, we unpack how we know with absolute faith that GOD WANTS YOU BACK.

We explore God’s original design for an intimate relationship with humanity, how sin created separation, and how Jesus made forgiveness, salvation and restoration possible through His finished work on the cross. 

This conversation addresses some of the biggest barriers that keep people from returning to God: shame over past mistakes, fear of punishment, trauma, unforgiveness, distraction and painful experiences with Christians or church leaders. No matter how far you believe you’ve wandered, God’s invitation is still open. Restoration is not earned through perfection or penance—it is received through faith in Jesus Christ.

We also discuss why God can sometimes feel distant, how internal “blockages” may prevent us from recognizing His presence, and why Scripture, prayer and Christian community remain essential for knowing Jesus and growing in faith.

In this episode:

• Why the Gospel still matters
• God’s original design for humanity
• Whether you can sin too much to be forgiven
• Grace versus punishment and penance
• What the Gospel actually means
• Why Jesus pursues the lost
• Healing after church hurt
• Shame, condemnation and fear of punishment
• Why God may feel distant
• How trauma, unforgiveness and distraction affect faith
• Stewarding spiritual gifts
• How to repent and receive Jesus

You’re also invited to the God Wants You Back event at The Gathering, Poughkeepsie on September 20, 2026 at 5:00 PM. Join us for a powerful evening of worship, redemption and your invitation to come home to Jesus.

If this episode encouraged you, subscribe for more conversations about Jesus, salvation, biblical truth, spiritual growth and practical Christianity.

Timestamps

00:00 Why the Gospel Matters
 02:13 God’s Original Design
 04:09 Taking Jesus Seriously
 07:15 Have You Sinned Too Much?
 09:07 Grace, Not Penance
 11:48 What Is the Gospel?
 15:44 The Gospel Is Personal
 19:40 Jesus Pursues the Lost
 22:04 Is It Ever Too Late to Return?
 25:18 Healing From Church Hurt
 31:57 Why God Feels Distant
 33:03 Condemnation and Accusation
 35:06 What Is Blocking God’s Presence?
 37:52 The Danger of Distraction
 42:52 Stewarding Spiritual Gifts
 46:05 God Wants You Back Event
 50:15 Overcoming Fear of Punishment
 53:30 Prayer and Next Steps

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Why is the good news so important? Why is the gospel so important? Why was it so important for Jesus to be that living sacrifice for our sins?

SPEAKER_02 0:06

The good news is the good news because it is the thing that every single person on earth is in desperate need of, whether they know it or not.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Do I really understand who Jesus is and his nature? Because if you don't, then it is difficult to take him seriously.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

It's very easy for me to think I have to fix myself in order to come to God. This is the moment. Don't make excuses for it, because there's no more important decision that you could ever make than to give your life to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

All right, well, I'm excited to be back. It feels like forever. You went to Kenya, you went to Vermont, you've been all around the world over the past few weeks. And uh it feels like forever ago that we've been in the studio. I'm glad to be back because this is probably, in my opinion, it's the most important episode. And I don't say that as like hyperbole. It's like this is the episode to let the listener know that God wants you back, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

And why. And like we're also gonna go through all of the different questions that I've personally had. And I these are questions that still pop up in my mind every now and then as someone who has matured in my faith. And so if you're struggling and you think maybe you're too far gone or you've done too many wrong things, or there's like a fear of punishment, like we're gonna go down this list of like objections you might have, almost like we're a sales team. Not that it's sales, but like that's how I think about it. It's like I want to make sure that the person listening to this, yeah, there is no objection in their mind to coming back to God because he's already seeking you out. So when you think about this theme of God wants you back, I know that we've talked in the past about it being someone who's been gone for a long time. For me personally, it actually starts with a constant reminder. And and sometimes that can be out of maybe my own condemnation or shame that I might live in at times, but it is I there's seasons in my life where daily I have to remind myself, yeah, God loves me. He does want me back, he wants me back right now, again, right? So when you think about God wants you back, which which way does your mind go with those two paths?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yeah. So the first question that I think has to be asked is if he wants you back, what does he want you back from? What was the starting point? So if you were a Christian your whole life and you walked away, if you came to God and you went through a season, you know, of difficulty, which happens, I hear people say, you know, I was walking with the Lord and my loved one died. This happened, I didn't understand why, and I drifted away. Or if you've never made that decision to give your life to Jesus, then where are you going back to? And I think that there's one really important thing to look at, no matter where you are in your life, which is that in the origin of humanity, when God created Adam and Eve, He created them for relationship, he created them in intimacy, he created them in an environment where he would be able to be present with them. And so when we talk about God wants you back, regardless of who you are and where you are, we have to understand God's original design and intent, which is that before what we call the fall, before man and woman made the decision to go their own way, separate from the will of God, that they were in perfect intimacy with God, that he was present with them and that's what he wanted, and that has never changed. He's never changed his desire and intention to be present with mankind. And so when we say God wants you back, regardless of where you are, that is the original point of conversation, which is okay, he wants us back in the way that he originally created us to exist in loving relationship with him.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Amen. Yeah, so I never looked at it that way. I have looked at it from a relational standpoint of like he wants us back in relationship with him. But there was an original design and purpose in the garden for Adam and Eve, and then humanity was separated from God. Yeah, and then we also have our own kind of micro separation from God in our own lives here today. Yeah, I've been through that. I was brought up Catholic, but I always say I was Christian, like Olive Gar is Italian. I I wore the uniform, I went to mass, but I didn't really take God seriously. I certainly didn't take Jesus seriously. It was like I recognize these things intellectually, but it was like, yeah, maybe that's not for me because I don't really feel it, you know. And then as I went into college, the college thing, um, I actually that's when I gave my life to Jesus officially for the first time. But even then, I didn't fully understand what it meant to live in relationship with Jesus. Yeah. Because once again, I didn't take him seriously. I think I I may have given this analogy recently, but you know, it's like with my my dad, he's actually my stepdad, I call him my dad. But when I was a kid, I would think and even say sometimes, like, Oh, you're not my real dad. I don't have to listen to you. And so I didn't recognize the true relationship that we had. Yeah, and I didn't honor and respect him because of that. And then we had chaos and and and dissonance and all that because of that perspective, yeah. Because I didn't take him seriously as an authority figure.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Same thing with Jesus. Even after I was saved, it took me many years to actually recognize him as my Lord, my savior, and the seriousness that we have to walk in that with.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

That personal aspect of what you're talking about matters so much because if in any way, shape, or form we look at God and we say, Well, because I haven't done this, or because he hasn't done that, we don't actually have that relationship. We can disqualify everything that he wants us to do or who he calls us to be. And that is the sad reality when we look at God through the lens of our own failure or success. It's always going to be based off of whether I did more good than bad. And if I did more good than bad, and if I feel like he's a good father, then I can come and do what he's called me to do. But if I feel like I've messed up too much and I disqualify myself, then I don't really feel like I deserve it. Or if I feel like he's failed me and he isn't a good father, then again, I'm going to not place a high priority on what he has said. I'm not really gonna take it seriously. And so I'm gonna live my life based off of how I see him, either as my real dad or not my real dad. So I think that's a really important analogy.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Absolutely. Yeah, you you mentioned disqualification. It's interesting in the analogy with my my dad, I actually was like disqualifying myself by disqualifying him in a sense. Yeah, and it seems to be like that disqualification process, if you will, goes both ways. It's like for me, there's been a time I'm like, do I really understand who Jesus is and his nature? Because if you don't, then it is difficult to take him seriously. Yeah, right. If you don't study the word, if you don't get to know him intimately, then you're not gonna have uh a respect and honor and reverence for him in a lot of ways. So this sounds to me is it's it's a much practical, like practical recognition and being in the word, but also intimate relationship in an ongoing walk. You know, one of the things that comes to mind first when I when I think of this topic of God wants you back, because I know people feel that tug, and there's probably someone listening to this who's like, I I get that, but like like you mentioned, maybe I've sinned too much, like I've done too wrong. I've I've personally done a lot of bad things in my life. And there's been moments where I'm like, I don't know how one, how could God forgive me? And two, even if he does forgive me, can he actually use me still? Because like I was that guy, and like, how is he gonna use Anthony when other people have seen Anthony do the things that he's done? You know, so what would you say to the person who's like, I've sinned too much, and or maybe they think they're broken in some way? What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 7:52

I would say that the first violation that we had as human beings took place before we ever took our first breath. So we were almost already disqualified, and we were before we ever even made our first mistake because of the human nature that we inherited. Now, I think it's important to look at this. I was listening to R. C. Sprohl the other day, and someone asked him a question about the nature of Jesus. And he pointed back to the fact that humanity in and of itself is not broken. So, like if we return back to, as we said in Genesis, where God creates man and woman, there was a period of time in which they were fully human without a sin nature. They were created in the image and the likeness of God. And before they made the decision to eat the fruit from the tree, they were who they were created to be. But the moment that they ate from the fruit of the tree, because they were deceived by the serpent, they entered into a new broken reality which we now inherit as human beings. Every single one of us, as descendants of Adam and Eve, have inherited a sin nature. And now, as a result of that, we live apart from God in brokenness. And so if we understand that before we ever even made our first decision that we were already disqualified, then we realize, okay, what Jesus did for me 2,000 years ago, it actually preceded my ability to do good or to do bad. And when I look at it that way, when I look at all the mistakes of my life, when I look at all the situations that I've been in where I chose the wrong way, it's very easy for me to think I have to fix myself in order to come to God. Or, like you said, I'm disqualified for coming to God because of all the things that I've done. But when we recognize that Jesus Christ came to this earth as the perfect substitute for every place where we're broken, and he came and he did that before I ever even took my first breath, it means that I now get to receive what he has done for me. And it's not dependent on my perfection, but dependent on his perfection. So the way this makes sense to me is if I'm living my life and I'm a pastor, I make mistakes all the time still. All right, I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I'll make a mistake, I'll I'll fall short in an area, and I'll immediately feel this sense of guilt, this sense of condemnation. And I'll go to God and I'll go to Him in worship or prayer just to spend time with Him, and I'll immediately start thinking about the thing that I did wrong. And my immediate response is probably the same for everybody. What do I have to do to fix this? What do I have to do to change this? But when I stop and I realize, Jesus, you have already paid the price for my past, my present, and my future, when I repent and ask for forgiveness, it's already done. I don't have to pay penance, I don't have to do X, Y, and Z or pray a certain prayer X amount of times in order to receive forgiveness. I simply have to come into agreement with what He has already done for me. So for the person who has lived a really good life and is gonna make a mistake tomorrow, they've already been covered by the blood of Jesus if they receive his finished work. And so for the person that has the past where they've done as many evil things as you could possibly imagine, their sin and the punishment that they deserve has already been dealt with in the same way by the blood of Jesus because he died before any of it ever happened. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

So I have to move into a place of agreement with what he's done. And so the simple thing is whether I've lived a really good life in my own eyes or a really terrible life, I'm still a sinner who needs the grace of God and still needs the forgiveness that can only come from Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

So can you double-click into that? Because I think even people who have believed in God, maybe the majority of their life, don't fully understand the sacrifice that Jesus made and why. So, and this goes back into what the gospel is, the good news, which means there's bad news. So even if it if it seems rudimentary here, for the person listening who's like just getting back into their faith because they feel this nudge, why is the good news so important? Why is the gospel so important? Why was it so important for Jesus to be that living sacrifice for our sins?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah, so I love the word gospel, and I I wanted to look it up in the in the Greek. Um, I believe it's Evangelio, something you and Gelio, something like that. But speaking to the good news, the good news is the good news because it is the thing that every single person on earth is in desperate need of, whether they know it or not. And what the good news and what makes the good news so good is that regardless of where I have started, regardless of where I've come from, if I've come from poverty or I've come from wealth, if I've come from a lack or I've come from privilege, every one of us is in the same position and that we need what Jesus has done for us. And his desire for us is so beautiful and it's so deep that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. That before we could ever make our first mistake, he had a picture and a plan for us, and he said, Whatever they, wherever they come from, wherever they are, I love them so much that I've come to get them back. And I think the pr the picture that is so beautiful about this is that the Bible refers to us as the bride of Christ. And I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast before. There are two main ways that that God sees us through scripture. He sees us as sons and daughters, right? So we're meant to look at him as a perfect father who loves us, and this is why the the prodigal son, the parable that Jesus tells, is so beautiful. Because even though the son knows the love of the father, he goes off and he does his own thing, the father runs towards him and receives him back when he's come to himself, he's recognized what he's done wrong, he repents, the father comes and embraces him and celebrates his return. That's a beautiful picture. The second way is that the Bible calls us the bride of Christ. Now, a bride and a groom have a different level of intimacy than a father and a son or a father and a daughter, right? So when we're looked at as the bride of Christ, it means that Jesus loves us so much as the object of his affection that he came to rescue his bride from a place of brokenness and separation. The reason this is so important is because if we don't understand the love that God has for us, the unconditional, beautiful love that he has for us, so much so that he was willing to come to earth and die for us, if we don't get that, then we think that it's kind of like I broke the law and now I have to serve my time and I have to make things right instead of I'm returning back to the one who loves me with everything they have. The good news is that God loves you and loves me, even though we're imperfect. The good news is that Jesus gave his life for you because of the deep love that he has for you and me, because he is perfect love. And because going back to that original intent again, his purpose for mankind was to be in relationship with us, was to express his love to us, was for us to be able to receive it and to reciprocate it. And so the good news is that regardless of where we've come from and what we've done, he's done the work necessary to bring us back and to restore us into a place of relationship with us.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Amen. So what do you say then to the person listening to this that's like nodding their head but might be feeling, oh, that's for them? And doesn't really personalize the word you when we say God wants you back. How do we know it's personally for you, Sam, or personally for me, or personally for the the one listener that's listening to this right now?

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah. So a lot of times with new believers, we encourage them to go and to start reading in the New Testament to start off with, because the New Testament it is it it teaches about the birth of Jesus, the life of Jesus, the ministry of Jesus, how he interacted with people, how he saw them. We've talked about the woman with the issue of blood, where she reaches out and grabs the hem of his garment and he turns around and says, Who touched me? And they're like, Everybody has touched you. But even though everybody is swarming around him, he makes time for the one who's reached out. When the woman is at the well and she's been rejected by her whole community, he sits and he talks with her. He's actually sends his disciples away and has a conversation with her directly and knows everything she's done. She says, He's the one that sold me everything I've ever done. But she comes back to him and she brings the whole village because of the love that is shown to her. So that's the New Testament, and that's so beautiful. But even if we go back to the Old Testament, we see the intimacy that God has with creation, with Abraham. We see it with Moses. We see that there's this instance where uh Moses' brother and sister are very upset with him because they don't like the direction that he's going in and uh the decision that he's made. And so uh the brother says to Aaron says to Moses, you know, I can talk to God too. And Moses like interrupts him and says, Yeah, but wait a second. Like I'll give you instruction. But Moses, me and him are so close that I talk to him as a man speaks with his friend. He says to Jeremiah, Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you and I set you apart and I created you with a purpose. The Bible also tells us that God is no respecter of persons. So if we see this desire for relationship with these men of the Bible, right, where he shows up to Gideon, where he shows up to Joshua, where he shows up in powerful ways from the Old Testament to the New Testament, why do we think he's any different today in regard to us than he was to them? The Bible says that he's the same yesterday, today, and forever. So the only thing that is missing out of this equation is the experience. That's the only thing that's missing, right? He showed us who he is through his word, but we can tend to think, well, the Bible happened thousands of years ago, so that doesn't really apply to me. And yet the same God desires to have that relationship with us so much so that he doesn't just dwell in heaven. It says he's come and taken up residence in us. Wow. That we are temples of the Holy Spirit. So now it's not that he just comes and visits us, that he wants to be within us. And so if you feel disqualified and you feel like that's for somebody else and not for me, it's only because you haven't made room to experience the presence of God, the intimacy of God, to be able to recognize who you are.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

So good.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

And so that's that's what we need. Yeah, we need that that, and and everything shouldn't be based around experience or based off of feeling or based off of all this stuff. We know that. And yet, God wants to be present with us and to reveal himself to us. And when we experience that, when we experience him, no argument, no thought process, no, no um, you know, compelling, you know, conversation with a stranger is gonna talk us out of what we've experienced. And so that's what we need. We need to ask God, God, I believe that you're real, I know that you're real, I believe what Jesus has done for me. I want to experience you. Yeah, I believe that's a beautiful prayer.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

It's it's so beautiful, and it reminds me of the parable of the sheep, of the lost sheep, rather. This, and I just pulled it up, uh uh, Luke 15, uh, where he says, What man of you having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the 99 in the open country and go after the one that is lost until he finds it. Yeah, and this gives such a beautiful personalization to who we are as children of his. And he's the perfect father, yeah, he's the perfect shepherd. And he leaves the 99 to go chase after you at any moment. Yeah, and then the picture I get in my mind is like we think of how we would feel when we're reconnected, but I think about how that shepherd feels when he gets that sheep back. And it's difficult because at times I myself and the person listening we do feel too far gone because too much time has passed on. This verse talks about the shepherd searching until he finds it, yeah. Which is telling me that there's no amount of time that God won't continue to search you out.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

So, what do you have to say to that person who who maybe had some faith, they were brought up in it, they fell away. It can't maybe it's decades. What do you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 21:05

So let me just uh read this verse in Luke 15, verse 10, just to just to capitalize on what you said. It tells us, and Jesus is speaking, I tell you that there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents. Like the joy is not just of God, it's of all of heaven, because they know they've seen from the beginning, they've seen man created, they saw the purpose, and they're watching eagerly to know what's going on. They saw the fall, they saw the coming of Jesus, they saw everything that's taken place, and they're like, oh, they've said yes to eternity. This this coming back to God is not just for a moment in time, it's an eternal decision that they've made. And that is so so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

So they're able to recognize like the real gravity of our choice to repent and to pursue God.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Evidently, yeah, it looks like that is the case that they're able to see the The significance of that, which to me is just it's so exciting. It really is.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

So is there a is there an amount of time like what if someone's gone their whole entire life and they're just like, you know what, I've been out of the faith for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yeah. Um, so I would say if we if we lost something, even when we were a kid, right? Something that meant a lot to us. Yeah. And for me, I lost a lot of things. I would always come home from school and it would be like, hey, where's where's your jacket? Where's your coat? Where's your lunchbox? Where's where's all the where you went with one thing and you came back with nothing? I think if I found that thing today, I would still be so excited. Like, is there any better feeling than when you lost something and you search desperately for it and you find it? Like, for me, I just guess I'm a little more like, you know, haphazard with this stuff. When I find it, I'm so excited. Now that's that's an object, right? Over time, we could be like, okay, I don't really care about that thing anymore. But what about a person in our life? If you're a parent and you have a child and they have done so many things wrong and they go away for all that time and they come back to you. I don't care who you are, I don't care how cold you are or how hard your heart has become. There is something about this reconciliation to what it's supposed to be that absolutely changes our lives. We were created to be in relationship with God. It is our purpose, it is our highest calling. So it doesn't matter how long we've been away, as long as we're away, we are living outside of our purpose, our very design. We're living outside of who we were meant to be. So should we come back to God as soon as possible? Absolutely. But maybe it's been 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Maybe it's because somebody in your life that you cared about, they passed away. You prayed for them, you believed for them, or you just don't understand why this happened. Somebody hurt you, somebody abused you, and you've questioned God, why did this happen? Whatever the reason is, as long as you've been away, you've been living outside of your purpose. And everything that you've tried to construct and everything that you've tried to build has been trying to fix that thing that has been empty. So it doesn't matter how long you've been away. The moment you come back to God is the moment you come back into a relationship, you come back into purpose, you come back into meaning. And so time is a is a construct that we have. God doesn't have that same construct.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Well, I remember doing kind of like a word study on time in the Bible, and we see the difference between Kronos and Kairos, where Kronos is more chronological, Kairos is uh timing more like a song, it's a beat, it's a heavenly rhythm. So when we get back into God's timing, it's simply our turning back towards him to get back into that heavenly rhythm of him. It's not about, oh, it's been X amount of years or decades. It's like, no, as soon as we decide to get back into timing with him, we it's like turning back into that radio station. Yes. We match into it. You know, you mentioned something very important here. I think this is probably one of the biggest hurdles for people, it's that they've been hurt. They've had they have trauma, tragedy, uh, sickness. Maybe even someone from the church has hurt them. Um they've they've had Christians in their lives who call themselves Christian and then do really bad things. What do you say to that person who's like, yeah, I if there is a God and this guy wants me back, why would he let all these things happen to me? Why does he create these Christians who call themselves Christians and do really egregious and wicked things? Like, how am I supposed to believe that one, that God that you're talking about exists in the way you say he does? And then two, he wants me personally back after letting me go through all that.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah. I when you say that the church has hurt me, like that, that stands out to me because it's a very common conversation that I have with people. Uh, yes, we touched on when something happens and we don't know why God allowed that to happen. Um, it's important to recognize we live in a broken world, a world of sin, a world where man chose its own way apart from God. And so the result of all of that is a sinful world that we live in. It's a sinful nature. God didn't choose brokenness, he only chooses wholeness, he didn't choose death. It's his will that none should perish. He only chooses life. So everything that we face and we experience is not as a result of God making that decision to say, I'm gonna make this happen to you. It is as a byproduct of men choosing their own way. So that's a good starting place. But the church has hurt me. I I kind of look at that from my perspective and I'm like, yeah, join the club. The church has hurt me too. I'm a pastor. Uh, the church has hurt me many times. The amount of times that people will leave a church, that they'll walk away, that they'll leave without saying anything, that they'll have their own opinion about something and go talk to a hundred other people about it before they talk to me is getting a little bit old, right? So, yeah, the church hurts because it's made up of people. It's made up of imperfect people, it's made up of people who have the best intentions, but have their own past, their own experiences, their own way of doing things. And what we're desiring to do is come together under Christ, who is the head, and to grow up into maturity so that we leave our brokenness behind and we come into a place of being able to be an adult, to being somebody who doesn't react and respond in emotions and lash out at people and hurt people and talk behind their backs. But some people are farther along this journey than others. Some people are doing a really good job at this, and some people have a long way to go. So if people in the church have hurt you, then it's something to realize okay, as long as there's people, there's gonna be places where people are gonna let us down. Um, the analogy is always if I go to a restaurant and I get food poisoning, I'm not gonna stop eating, I'm not gonna stop going to restaurants, I'm just probably not gonna go back to that restaurant, right? So, like, don't leave your faith in God, don't leave the church because someone has hurt you. But what if it's the leader? What if it's the shepherd? What if it's the one who's supposed to protect you? What if that's the one that hurt you? That becomes a lot harder because it's not just another person who's hurt you, it's somebody who has been placed in a position of authority. What do I do then? In some ways, it's the same exact thing. It's a person, it's a human being, they've hurt me. But again, uh it's so important that we recognize that the reason that that person, whether it's a pastor, a priest, a leader, that they hurt you or somebody else is because they're still dealing with their own stuff. Maybe they were put in a position they shouldn't have been, maybe they're dealing with their own wounds, their own hurts, their own pain, and they never dealt with it. It doesn't excuse it. Like leaders should be held accountable for the decisions they make. God holds leaders to a very high standard. But even if a pastor or a priest, let's say the Pope himself, hurts you, it still doesn't change who God is. It still doesn't change that he is a loving father. And so you can choose to allow the enemy to win by using that person to separate you from relationship with God, or you can choose to go deeper into who God is. And that's really a choice that we have to make. Does the enemy get to win in this, or does God get to remain as God, the loving father, who is the only one who could take what the enemy meant for evil and to use it for good? And so we have to choose in our relationship with God whether we're gonna trust him above anybody else. That doesn't mean that if you've been hurt by a leader, though, again, that you should stop attending church. So many people are like, I'm gonna go do church on my own. I don't actually need the church, I don't actually need to be in a place of community. That's not the right answer either. Uh, 1 Corinthians chapter 12, verse 27 says, You are the body of Christ, and individually you are members of it. So you are an individual. You do have a calling, you do have a purpose, an assignment on your life, but it's meant to function together as the body. And so don't allow the the enemy to win by disconnecting you from God as a loving father or the body of Christ that He's called you to operate in.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

And that's exactly what Satan would love to do is create this chaos within the four walls of the church specifically, because that's where we go. That's supposed to be our sanctuary, that's supposed to be where we have community and we have the gathering.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

You know, it's interesting. There is nuance here because let's say a pastor does hurt somebody. It's not indicative of the church as a whole, but I also don't think that the church as a whole should abdicate responsibility for what has happened. And I know you're not saying that, but I see that I see it as like, oh, it's not the church that hurt you, it's a person that hurt you. No, the church did hurt you because we're representation of the church, yeah, and that needs to be acknowledged, but also understanding that that doesn't mean anything about the nature of God.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Yeah, if that church doesn't deal with it the right way, then you have the ability to say, okay, you're not handling this according to scripture. I'm going to find another fellowship. So the church does need to take responsibility. If two people came to me and they're like, they did that to me, I'm not like, okay, you guys go figure it out. You're just human beings. Like, if that person has been entrusted, if they've been put in leadership, or even if not, we want to walk together with this into healing. And that is our responsibility and to take accountability for it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

So in switching gears here a little bit, um I feel like a lot of people, and I I think I've had seasons like this in my life where I haven't felt God, I haven't felt the presence, and maybe I've tried to pursue him, or I understood that he's there and wants me back, even kind of unconsciously, if you will, but then I don't experience him. And so then I just kind of remain stagnant in that. What do you say to the person who's listening to this and like ah once again I get this intellectually, but I haven't felt God in a long time, if not ever.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah. So I'm just I'm kind of looking because I I I spent some time uh writing about this, this exact thing. And um, and some of what we're talking about here is gonna be coming out in in a different format. I have known multiple individuals who say, I've come to God, I love him, I have never felt his presence before. Now, for me, I have felt the presence of God, it's the most beautiful thing like when you feel it and experience it. It's one of those things that you never want to leave. It's just it's it's everything. Because I believe it's the closest that we come to what it was in the garden to experience his presence with us and to know that he is tangibly there with us. And so the first thing I want to do is take away any feeling of condemnation that the enemy wants to bring in these moments. Because what's the first feeling that you feel if someone else feels the presence of God and you don't, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah, like I'm doing something wrong, not good enough.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yeah, something's wrong with me, I'm not doing it right. This is where the enemy comes in so quickly because he's called the accuser of the brethren and says, Well, it's because of this, this, this, and wants to push it in your face. If you wouldn't have done this, if you didn't stop doing this, you'd be able to feel the presence of God. What's the matter with me? And that is where he wins. For me, the best analogy that I have, I'll do this quickly. Over the winter, uh, we were home, the house got really cold, the found out that the furnace wasn't working, didn't know why. I went and diagnosed it the best that I could, got it to run for a little bit, blood the line, couldn't get it to work. Had a friend who knew what he was doing, and he came and he looked at it. Actually, it was just on the phone and he was able to diagnose it. And it turns out that there was fuel in the tank. That's the first question. I talked to three people. Do you have fuel? I'm like, yes, I have fuel. Okay. Okay, yes, I love God. Yes, I have a passion for God. Yes, that's established. Um, okay, the furnace, is it working properly? Yes, the furnace by all accounts seemed to be working properly. So it wasn't doing anything wrong. But there were these lines, these little tiny copper lines that went from the tank to the inside. So the tank's outside, the furnace is inside. And what I found out was that it had gotten so cold outside that the fuel had frozen in the lines and there was a blockage. So there was nothing wrong with the fuel. The fuel was there. There was nothing wrong with the furnace, but this little part in between had a blockage in it. And so, what I would love to, if someone is going through this and they feel like I don't feel the presence of God, I love God, I want to experience Him. There's nothing wrong with God. So, what's going on? Is there a blockage in the lines of your heart? Is there something in your life that has happened that has changed the way that you see God, that has affected the trust that you have in him? Or is it something where I've held on to unforgiveness against somebody? I've held on to a judgment against somebody. There is some trauma in my life that has happened that I've never actually gone back and addressed. I can kind of sense that it's there. It's kind of like if you're you're walking in the dark and you kind of just have a sense that someone's there, like, okay, but have you dealt with it? Because very often it's just something simple. And the way that we deal with a blockage, the way that I had to deal with the blockage in the line was that I had to add heat to it. So until I added heat to it, I could do anything I wanted. I even added, you know, treatment and everything else. It wasn't until I applied heat that it melted, it thawed, and then the oil was allowed to flow. And oil is very biblical, right? That the oil was able to flow, it was able to ignite, and it was able to produce what it was supposed to. So you have to apply heat to it, which means it's not just go talk to somebody. It's not just go see a therapist, as much as that could be a good thing. It's allowing the Holy Spirit, the fire of God, to be present in that place when he reveals it, allowing him to expose it, apply the heat to it, and he's the only one that can fall whatever it is that's you know blocking it. And I think that starts by removing condemnation, asking for the direction, and then allowing him to come in and to bring what he needs to bring.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Yeah, so it sounds like a two-part process here, and probably the most quoted verse that we've had is Romans 12, 2. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind so that you can discern God's will. Yes. This sounds like a good starting point. You're mentioning these blockages, these things that have happened to us that have uh taught us to believe certain lies about ourselves, about the world around us, about God, even need to be addressed.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Let's say someone's done that, or maybe they're working through that. What are some of the practical things to apply heat, if you will? So if I if I want to apply heat to my my blockages practically, is that going to church? Is that um doing a Bible study? What are some of the practical heat applications, if you will?

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah, probably any of the things that we would initially think of reading the word, prayer, uh, Bible study, going to church, all those things are good. Um I would say that the most important thing that we could do is to recognize why we haven't dealt with those things already. One of the biggest deterrence to faith in the world, but especially in the United States, has to be distraction. It's not being taking the time to look at what's really going on. Yeah. Cell phones, televisions, YouTube, whatever it is, right? Golf. I hate to say that. Any number of things, right? There's always something that we can be doing, even just the busyness of life and work and whatever else, that will distract us away from what really matters. And so if we're not paying attention to what's going on inside of us, then we will never address it. We'll never recognize the thought patterns and the thought processes and the strongholds in our mind that are keeping us in a place where we don't see God correctly, where we're looking at ourselves through shame and brokenness and condemnation. We have to take the time to look. And I'm looking at myself right now as I'm saying this. The most difficult thing for me to do after a long day, after the responsibilities of being a pastor and a husband and a father and a friend and whatever else, is to take the time to sit down alone with my thoughts and to recognize what's going on inside. It's far easier to just keep it moving, to keep pushing through to the next thing. And unless we take the time with God to stop long enough to say, God, uh as this is our second most quoted verse in in the podcast, Psalm 139, uh, verses 23 and 24, which is where David prays, uh, search me, O God, and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any grievous way in me and lead me in the way everlasting. Are we taking the time to ask God what's going on inside? Are we taking the time to recognize it? If we don't recognize it, I think that recognize it is actually the hardest part. Because inviting the Holy Spirit to come and to do something with it, to teach me, to speak truth to me, to go to the word and find out what he's really saying, that's a lot easier. And that's where church comes in, that's where community comes in, that's where Bible study comes in, that's where relationship comes in, because it's always more helpful for us to do that part together.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

You mentioned distraction. I had a dream recently because I I rely on like John 14 26 a lot now. It's like he's gonna send us a helper, an advocate, the Holy Spirit to teach us all things. So if I have a question about something, I I've been recently um doing uh deliverance sessions for people. I I've had the wonderful blessing of God like sending some of my videos out to the internet and people, hundreds of people reaching out, doing a lot of these sessions, schedules booked out for like two months now. It's insane. And I and in doing so, I'm like, well, God, you gotta teach me. Yeah, I don't I don't fully know what I'm doing here. I see what you say in the word, I see your deliverance accounts, I see kind of the simplicity, but the profound nature of your power and authority, but I know there's nuance here. And I bring all this up because I prayed that one night and I had a dream. And in the dream, I run into a guy at a gas station and he asked me to pray for him, and it instantly turns into like a deliverance session in this gas station. And I'm praying over the spirit of distraction for him. He runs out of the gas station, and next thing you know, we're both in a house, which biblically the house can be indicative of like the soul, obviously. And this is just what I was discerning in real time because as soon as he ran away from me in the house, my discernment was, and what I was seeing was that this spirit was taking him away from me, with taking him upstairs, which is uh symbolic of the mind, occasionally. And then as soon as he went up, another woman who was demonized that came down, and I knew in the dream was a spirit of wickedness.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

And what was revealed to me in that moment is that so often it's the distraction that comes in first that then leads to wickedness. And so what the Holy Spirit was teaching me in that moment was how to get kind of more surgical in these areas of our life that we need to pray into and to be delivered from. Yeah. Because sometimes it's that it's that distraction on the cell phone that then leads to the wickedness of what you're doing after that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 42:00

So that's so that's so powerful. And I think any Old Testament account that we see of Israel walking away from God started with distraction. Distraction because they didn't have what they thought they needed, because they didn't have, you know, they they they had manna, but they didn't have any any meat. Like everything was like, I'm distracted. I need something, I want something, I don't have it. Even Adam and Eve, they got distracted from the goodness of God, spoke to the serpent, and ate the fruit. The Israelites end up building the golden calf while Moses is on the mountain speaking to the Lord, they're distracted by the other nations, by what they have, and and then they take matters into their own hands. So distraction and wickedness, I think that's very profound. I love that you dream like that. I think that's amazing. That's that's so cool because it's so specific. I have had dreams few and far between, just as a little tangent here. But when I have and I remembered them, they've had a lot of significance. But I'm enamored by people who dream. And and I I think we need to go deeper into this uh in in conversation on another another episode because I had somebody that came up to me on Sunday and they said, I I actually have this this discernment when someone's gonna pass away. Like I've seen it happen multiple times in my life, and I'm like, the way that God speaks to us is so unique, it's so beautiful, but we need to pay attention to it and steward it. And sometimes we think, oh, well, that's just me. Yeah, but clearly, with something like that, the specificity of that is amazing. Well, I think I love that.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

I think not to get too deep into this, I think it should be a whole episode, and maybe next time we will talk about things like deliverance and prayer and dreams and and whatnot. Because I did, I did pray for a long time for God to open up my spiritual eyes so I could so that so that I could help people. Yeah. And first you had to take all the pride and ego out of me because I I think I may have mentioned this on previous episodes, but I was like the little boy who had like a magic kit and like wanted to like have this awe and wonder of. People. If there's any of that in the prophetic or in any of the gifts you operate in, it's a it's a terrible mixture and it's a recipe for disaster.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

So once that was burned out of me, he's like, All right, let's send you, let's put the training wheels on first. So as I prayed, I literally just started getting dreams and visions of people to pray for. Wow. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Nothing else, not about my life. He's just like, okay, this person that you haven't seen in 10 years, or this stranger that you're gonna meet in two days, or this person, uh uh the one of our groups or whatever. Yeah, he's like, This is I want you to pray for them, and this is what I want you to pray for them for. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like, why? And I question, why are you just why this? And he's like, Well, you haven't been obedient in this. And if you're not willing to just go pray for someone that I'm I'm encouraging to pray for, then why would you want to see anything else? Why would you want to prophesy over anything else? Like, you need to start here without obedience. Yeah, and so yeah, as I've done that and have have taken ego and pride out of it, um, he's been revealing some pretty cool things to me. It's also dangerous, though, because we do have an imagination, right? We do have our own, our flesh that gets in the way. We're not infallible. So I'm also I'm also very cautious to even discuss these things at times because I know this it, although he's revealed truth to me, my interpretation of it may not always be the most accurate thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Yeah, but there is maturity and growth that takes place in that. There is that development of that spiritual muscle that is there, you're meant to have a confidence in him and what he's saying and doing, and keep that confidence in us at an appropriate level, right? Yeah, for sure. Uh in any place. But I just think that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Yeah, well, and we'll do we'll do a whole episode on this. And and for the sake of time, I want to I want to make sure that um a couple we do a couple of things. One, as always, like like this uh video, subscribe if you haven't already. But if you're here for the first time or uh for the I don't know how many episodes we've done so far, maybe the 20th time now. Um we we are so grateful that you take the time out of your day to even listen to us talk, you know, as much as you're a pastor, but we're just also two guys sitting here chatting about the Lord. And it's really a beautiful thing that people would give us their time and energy to be here. Absolutely. And with that, I will kind of I don't know if it's a tease or a spoiler alert, but this episode is specifically to um promote something that you are hosting at the church, at the gathering, yeah, which is the God wants you back. Have we have we decided then is it the conference, is the event, the God Wants You Back event. Event, yes, yeah, and so that's gonna be in September, correct, right? And that's September what?

SPEAKER_02 46:28

September 20th, okay at 5 p.m. All right, at the gathering.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

And what is what is the the main intention or mission behind this specific event?

SPEAKER_02 46:36

So this is an evangelistic event. It's doing two things it's launching our Sunday evening services at the church, which are meant to be evangelistic. They're meant to be for families and individuals who can't always make it to church on a Sunday morning, but to create a little bit of flexibility into the community. But the biggest part of it is that we want to mobilize Christians and believers to be able to spread the simple message of God wants you back, regardless of where you are, what you've been through, how far you've been away, how long you've been away. God wants you back in relationship. And it really is as simple as making the decision to come back to Him.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

So all someone has to do is show up on September 20th.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yeah, September 20th, yeah, 5 p.m. It'll just be really easy. We're gonna do it outside. We're gonna have uh things going on for the kids to be able to, so it's family friendly. Um, we're gonna have music, we're gonna have a message, we're gonna have some testimonies, and there's something else that I'm planning as well, um, which I'm not going to announce quite yet. But uh it's just gonna be a really great time. And because it's outside, maybe individuals who wouldn't ordinarily want to come to a church because they don't know what it's like to cross that threshold and to come into the door will be a lot more comfortable coming outside and just being part of a service outside where there is just an invitation to be able to experience God.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

And there's something supernatural about being there in person.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Like you can't deny the presence of God in that moment when you're around hundreds of other people. And even just, you know, I think as a practical piece of advice to dovetail off that announcement, is I have a friend who's recently started asking me questions about Jesus. He's believed in God, he went through AA, he knows that you know, there's quote unquote a higher power, at least as far as he's concerned. But now he's asking me about Jesus because he he knows based on what we've talked about that I see it differently than just this kind of general concept of like big man in the sky, you know. And he just goes to me, he's like, Anthony, I want what you have.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

And he's like, I see all these other Christians in my life, I want what they have.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

And he's like, but I don't necessarily know if I actually want it or I want to want it. And I said, That's okay. Yeah, just want to want the thing, want to want to come to church, want to want to explore Jesus more intimately and seriously. That's that there's no there's no there's no weight on this for you. Like it's literally just a it's a turning, like it's literally just make the decision, take the step, and God does the rest, as cliche as that sounds.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

It's so true. We just got to make space for him. Yeah, and sometimes that's the the biggest the enemy will do everything. I think he allocates the most resources to stopping us to get to that point of just giving God space. He'll do everything he can to keep us out of church. You invite someone to church, they're like, Yeah, I'd love to go, and then all these things happen, and all these things come up.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Listen, speaking of, listen to this. So, that guy that I'm talking about, you actually, I think you might have met him. Um one of the guys that responded to the altar call. Okay, we'll name any names just yet. My buddy was his friend. My buddy was on the way to church. This is the one that's asking all these questions about Jesus. Yeah, hadn't fully committed his life to him yet. His bike breaks down, his motorcycle breaks down on the way to church for the first time. Yeah, and who knows how long. Yeah, he still gets to church that day, still has his friend come. Yeah, and his friend, who's also his one of his biker buddies, ends up giving his life to Jesus that day. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Yeah, so he wasn't so easily dissuaded by that. No, some people don't go to go come to church because it's raining outside, and he's like, No, I'm coming even though my my my bike broke down. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Yeah, and God was able to have his way for sure, and God always does have his way. Um, what about the people who come back and and think that they're gonna be punished, though?

SPEAKER_02 50:21

I'm so glad you asked that question. Yeah, that is that's the one that I think uh really is important to to end on. I believe that God will punish me. Two verses. Uh, first John chapter four, verse 18. John says, and this is a disciple of Jesus, the one that Jesus loves. This is his own title for himself. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out all fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. The overwhelming truth of the gospel is this that Jesus Christ died in our place to pay for the punishment that we could not pay for on our own. Yes, on our own we are deserving of punishment. We are deserving of the outcome of our bad decisions. But Jesus came as the atonement, he came as the propitiation, he came as the substitution where we couldn't pay the price, but because he lived a perfect life, a sinless life, and he lived it unto God, he was the one who, when he went to the cross, died for our sins. And he didn't just die for us, he died as us. He took our place on the cross, but because he was perfect, he had none of his own sin to pay for. And so the punishment that we fear when we come back to God, the place where we feel like God's gonna say, because you did all of this, now you're gonna have to do all of this, that's just not biblical. Now it doesn't mean that we're going to have this easy, cushy life when we come to God. But punishment has to do with fear because fear doesn't understand who God really is. Fear is not found in God. Perfect love casts out fear. So if you're afraid of punishment, it's because you haven't received the love of God yet.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

The love that God so generously poured out for us on the cross of Calvary. And so we've got to realize that in combination with Romans 8:1, there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. When we are in Christ, when we receive the finished work of Jesus, we don't have to fear punishment. We actually get to go to court with the only one who can pay our fine, who can pay our debt, and who already has and who gives us life in him.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

It's so beautiful. And just the thing that comes to mind is like there's no condition that you have to meet because he already met them. Yes, yep. There's no 12-step process. Yep. It's not about you, it's about Jesus. Yeah, but it is all about you because of Jesus, if that makes sense. And so it really is just that turning and choosing, and he's and it's not about punishment. Condemnation is a tool from the enemy to try to distract you, try to keep you away. Um, but God, God loves you, right? Like, and and it's hard to even understand, even I question that somewhere, what does that truly mean? But like then there's just all these little God moments in my life where like, oh, I get it. And I've said this before, it's like you see the thread when you're at the end of it. Yeah. So to the person listening right now who has felt that call back and knows in their heart of hearts that God wants them back, I'd I'd like you to just pray for for for that person listening right now, yeah. Um, as we as we pray out of here, okay?

SPEAKER_02 53:43

I'd love to do that, and I'd love to encourage every person listening. If you sense that, do not ignore it. This is not an invitation that you press snooze on. There is a moment in time in which God reaches out to us and he constantly is doing it. As we said, it doesn't matter how long you've been away from God, but there's moments of specific grace where he starts to put this tug on our heart. It's a moment in time that we need to respond to, and it's never going to get easier than now. This is the moment. This is the time. Don't put it off, don't make excuses for it. Allow God to do what he's going to do because there is no more important decision that you could ever make than to give your life to Jesus. Amen. Lord Jesus, I just thank you for everyone who is listening, for anyone who is listening, whether they're questioning who you are or questioning who you've made them to be or the love that you have for them, I just pray right now, Holy Spirit, that you would speak to them, that even in the place right now where they are feeling anxiety, feeling fear, feeling a heaviness, that supernaturally that you would bring peace that passes all understanding into their hearts and their minds right now, in Jesus' name, that they would experience even just a touch from heaven, that they would recognize that in the places that they've been asking these questions and they've been uncertain, it's for a reason. That the time is now to return back to you. Because the time that we have on this earth, it isn't guaranteed, but eternity is. We will live forever away from these earthly bodies, and we will either live with you, present with you forever, or we'll live separated from you. And so, Lord Jesus, we thank you that you paid the price that we could never pay to bring us into a place of relationship with you where our future is guaranteed. And so, Holy Spirit, grab a hold of hearts and minds right now, and I thank you for any person who feels that tug to come back to you, Lord God, that they would simply repent. They would say, Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins. I repent of the places where I have chosen my own way. Today I choose to receive you, Jesus, as Lord and Savior. I acknowledge that you died on the cross for my sins, that you rose again to give me life and that more abundantly. And so today I choose you as Lord and Savior, and I receive you as my King. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

If anyone prayed that prayer for the first time or agreed with that, I really want them to reach out to us. We'd love to be able to speak to them, to be able to connect with them, to be able to give them resources, whether they're local or not. But it's the most important decision that anyone could ever make.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

Absolutely. Yeah. Send us, uh send us a uh message on Instagram, even um at Sam Edwards NY. Correct. Right? Yeah. And I'm at Anthony J Sereno. You can reach out to either one of us and and we communicate with each other all the time. And we would love to chat, uh, get even get on a Zoom call or something. We we can do that for you. So yeah, uh, thank you, Sam, for uh for for sharing that and we'll see you guys next time.