Episode 5- Karma & Consciousness: Breaking the cycle within

Welcome back to Path to Wholeness 🌿

In this powerful conversation, we go deeper into the true meaning of karma—moving beyond the common ideas of punishment or reward and into a space of awareness, responsibility, and growth.

Together with meditation coach and author Thaisa Clapham, we explore how karma is not only created through our actions, but also through our thoughts and emotions. Every moment becomes an opportunity to either react unconsciously or respond with awareness.

In this episode, we dive into:
 ✨ What karma really is (and what it isn’t)
 ✨ How your thoughts, emotions, and actions shape your reality
 ✨ Why triggers and difficult people are actually opportunities for healing
 ✨ The difference between reacting vs. responding with awareness
 ✨ Real-life examples in relationships, parenting, stress, and daily life
 ✨ How to break cycles and stop passing patterns forward
 ✨ The importance of self-awareness and inner work on the path to wholeness

This conversation is a reminder that life isn’t happening to you—it’s constantly guiding you back to yourself.

Instead of asking “Why is this happening to me?”, we invite you to explore a new question:
👉 “What is this teaching me?”

Because the journey isn’t about perfection—it’s about becoming conscious.

If this episode resonates with you, share it with someone who may need this perspective 💫
 And don’t forget to leave your questions or topics in the comments—we’d love to explore them in future episodes.

Thank you for being here on your path back to your true self.

Disclaimer: The conversations shared on this podcast are intended for educational and reflective purposes only. We encourage everyone to follow their own inner guidance, use personal discernment, and seek support from qualified medical or mental health professionals for any health-related concerns. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Back to Holdeness, your journey back to your true self. Here we explore meditation, energy, and awareness. Hopefully, we need more clarity, alignment, and well-being. After the response we received from our previous episode, we knew we needed to continue these conversations because it became very clear that there is still so much confusion when it comes to spirituality, energy and healing. So today we're bringing back to it. And we're going deeper. In these episodes, we're exploring topics like karma, but not from a place of fear, punishment or reward, from a place of awareness. We talk about how karma is created not only through our actions, but through our thoughts and our emotions, and how everything we think, feel, and do creates an energetic impact in our life. We also explore something really important, how the situations and people that treated us are actually opportunities for growth and age. Instead of asking, why is this happening to me? We begin to ask, What is this teaching me? We also go into real life situations, relationships, family dynamics, parenting stress, and how to respond awareness with awareness instead of reaction. Because the journey is not about being perfect, it's about becoming conscious. And of course, I'm here with Tanisa Klappman, meditation coach and author, to bring both the spiritual and grounded perspective into this conversation. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

One of the questions that we received was about karma. So is it true that everything that we do creates karma?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Yes. In the manifested world, there is the law of physics, it's the Newton law. And basically it teaches us that for every force of action, there is a reaction, there is a force that will come back to us, of course, in different directions. So we put an energy out there, and the force of action is gonna come towards us. So we learned that in high school, right? So that's basically the law of karma. It does not mean punishment or reward, but it simply means for you to become aware what you put out there, what force of action you're putting out to the universe. And because you will receive back. Sometimes not in this lifetime, but I am a believer that we don't live only one life. So, but even if you don't believe in that lineage of understanding, everything will come back to you in this lifetime. So I have a joke, even for selfish reasons, practice conscious actions because it will come back to you. But of course, we don't want to act from a place of being selfish. We want to act truly by feeling the unity behind everything. It's basically the golden rule. What is the golden rule, Angelica, that we learned when we were little kids?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Well, to always act from your heart and do the right thing and uh you know express yourself and do the right actions, always, you know, with exactly that.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

What you do to others will come back to you. And of course, we want to act from a place of feeling the union that we all want. So I'm not gonna do to you something I don't want to back in my life. So treat others like you would like to be treated. That's basically the golden rule. And we want to act from a place of goodness, of feeling that we are connected, that we all in having a human experience. And that's the law of karma, doesn't not mean punishment. So sometimes I see people rolling their eyes, oh, it's my karma. So good means good, bad means bad. It will come back to you. You can't in that manner, you can't plant an apple seed and expect a peach, right? Yes, so that's basic intelligence. So sometimes people seed all the wrong thoughts, emotions, and actions because karma is very important, they'll happen in different layers of the human constitution. For example, we have we're made of the physical body, that's so that's dance. So that's what Newton was speaking about, physical force. But we know we are beyond our bodies, so we are we are our constitution is made of our thoughts as well, correct? Your mind, so that's your mental body, and also we have our energetic body, the pranic, where car where the chakras are located, so they're located in your body of energy, and we have the body, so we have the body of mind, the your thoughts, the energetic body, and your body, astral body, your body of emotions. And so this sounds like complicated, but it's not. So for every thought I have, I create a force of action, but in a subtle, because you cannot see your thoughts, correct? Maybe you, because you're too visual. She told me she's very visual. So maybe her, I don't see my thoughts, but like just thoughts forms. So you have thought forms, and they you constantly think those thoughts. And then here comes an emotion that animates those thoughts. So it creates like an animated thought. So that force of action of a thought creates an action, and an emotion creates an action as well in that plane, in that dimension. So we have to be very careful. We have to be in harmoniously. We have to be harmoniously in integration between your thoughts, your emotions, and your physical actions. Because most people only talk about karma in the physical actions. If I push you, the force of action will come back to me. But it's very important to notice these different dimensions of our constitution. So we are made of physical body, that's very easy, pranic body, that's the chakra, energetic, and then the mental body, that all your thoughts, your perceptions, your memories, and your emotional body. So we create karma in all these dimensions. So make sure when you think, you feel, and you act, they're all in alignment. So that's the explanation. A deeper explanation sounds complicated, but it's truly not. But just think about it. Your thoughts are in the subtle energy. You don't see your thoughts, unless if you are more visual, you have that vision, your clear vision, your third eye is more developed, then you can see it. And your emotions, some people see emotions, they feel like they can see like colors. So we we have different manifestations of that dimension, though, of those dimensions as well. So the law of comma, it's very important because it inspires us to be conscious, conscious of our your thoughts, your emotions, and your actions.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

So I think that this is such an interesting topic for me because I feel like what you're saying, a lot of people focus on the reality, like what's in the dance, yeah, the dance physical 3D, as they call it, but they don't really think about what's beyond in the other dimensions. And I think that that is a reflection of what really is created here. So, how do we manage that, right? Like, so we have these thoughts and they create emotions, and then they have all this negative energy around us. Is that what then attracts that karma? Or like once you act on it, but if the energy is there, it won't attract it? How was how how can we work on it?

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Well, it's not attracting a karma because karma is manifested, but in a way, we are co-creators, correct? So we learn that everything starts in the mental plane. So everything starts with a thought. So be aware of your thoughts. And if you contemplate that thought, if you nourish those thoughts, you know, you keep like rethinking and like the looping circle uh thought process, then that creates like almost a form. Then you attach an emotion to it. So then you have a thought with an emotion. An emotion is the one that animates the thought, gives more action. And then from that, like for example, I'm gonna look at you, and like you're not, I don't know you, I don't know Angelica. And I see her, and the way she looks at me, I have a thought. Angelica doesn't like me. For some reason, I I nourish this thought and keep adding to it. And then I start developing, like, for example, resentment. So listen, an emotion attached to the thought first was just the thought, maybe she doesn't like me. Then another day I see, I think she doesn't like me. And then another time I see Angelica, I'm for sure she doesn't like me. So then an emotion attached to that first initial thought. Now I'm sure. And then I, for example, I have hurts, resentments towards you because in my mind it's almost like a bird went in there and laid the egg. In my mind, that bird planted the egg in that nest that she doesn't like me. Now I have the animated emotion and I feel like resentment. And one day I see Angelica and she's coming to my meditation class, or she's coming to the podcast, for example. Now I know her, and then I'm very aggressive towards you. I say harsh comment and really aggressive, and you don't know anything about it. What I had contemplated in my mind, and what I nourish that thought process, then you think it's from nowhere, but I've been nourishing that thought. Angelica doesn't like me, and then I animated that thought with oh, and now I'm resenting, I resent Angelica. Hurt because she doesn't like me. And then I see Angelica and I make a bad call. Then it's the action, a physical action. Do you understand? So this is how the layers of that you can understand how karma did you attract that? Not necessarily. If it's in your karma to be the recipient of that aggressiveness, there is a saying that says, How somebody acts towards me is their karma, how I react is my karma. So I'm harsh towards you, I'm aggressive, I'm resentful because you don't like me, right? And then I practice an action of aggression. I'm harsh, I speak bad about you, I or I speak behind your back. I create all these bad, you know, imperentist bad karma. But look, look what I'm seeding. So I'm like nourishing these seeds of resentments, hurts, aggressiveness, anger. So it's your karma how you're gonna react towards me. You know what I mean? I'm bad, I I I act in an aggressive manner towards you, but it's your karma how you're gonna respond to me. Okay, how you're gonna react. The best way is to respond. That's the best word. You respond with awareness, presence. So you instead of being, because it's very easy, I'm aggressive to you, then you come right back and you're aggressive to me. The good way to plant the good seeds is how you're gonna react and respond with awareness, conscious towards my comment, my actions towards you.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

So for people that have this type of situations at work, for example, like with family, and then you have a family member that has these thoughts, and and then they do the action towards you, and then you're talking about a reaction. What is the best way to manage a situation like that? So, what will be the best response for people to follow?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

The best response is always like what your mom taught you to pause. It's the best response because if somebody's triggering you, like your aggressiveness, for example, somebody can trigger you. Just because somebody was aggressive to you doesn't give you the right to be aggressive to them in return. But some people might think that way. I'm just not gonna give my other cheek. But it's always your choice, you are empowered to make your own choices. I would pause, I would take a it's not necessarily I'm gonna be able to do this all the time. It depends what triggers they are they are pressing, depends on your day. For example, if you're not having an amazing day, you're not gonna feel that bothered by my aggressive manner towards you. But if you're down or feeling not well that day, I might be able to push your buttons easily, correct? So the best way that I see is to pause, take a deep breath, connect to your body, do the self-inquire questions. What I'm feeling right now. Why? Because the person can be aggressive towards me, but I cannot feel insulted. They can insult me, but I might not feel insulted. So what makes the difference? Depends on what trigger they they press at you. If that's something that vibrates with you, if that's something that it's you're wounded by, then you're gonna feel triggered. So if I say to you, Anjam, your hair is black and ugly, you know, you know your hair is not black and ugly. So you're not gonna feel triggered by it. You say, oh, she's just having a bad day, it's her karma, right? My karma is how I react to her. So it's her karma. Well, send her the blessing. Maybe she's having a bad day herself. Sometimes, like some a person in traffic, they cut you, they rude at you, and what is the natural response? I'm gonna be mad, I'm gonna yell, I'm gonna shout, I'm gonna whatever, you know. Uh well, you know what I do? Maybe they're in a hurry. We have a joke. Oh, memorize the license plate just to make sure they arrive in time for whatever emergency they're having. So I tend not to judge. Maybe somebody in their house is not feeling well, or maybe, or maybe that's his or hers nature, and it's her their karma, not mine. So how you respond is my karma.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

So is it clear? Yeah, yes. I like I like that response because it then it takes us to the next question. When you have these triggers, are they tied to karma that you have to get over? And then when you meet these people that trigger you and kind of like touch, I guess, on that on that subject on you, it makes you more aware of what you need to overcome.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

I I believe on that. I see every opportunity, it's a door for our healing. So if somebody is pressing you the wrong way, I'm I'm saying the wrong way, usually our first reaction is to be external. I'm gonna blame you, I'm gonna be aggressive to you. But what I like, what usually I do that, I practice a lot. I can say I'm not a master, but I practice so much that I have that already built within me. What do I need to learn from this situation? What life is trying to teach me? Uh, maybe I need more patience, maybe I need more resilience. So I always ask, how can I grow? Because life is always teaching you a lesson. So I believe on that, that you always go back to you and ask the question, how may I learn from this? How can I heal my wounds? Because always is an opportunity to heal yourself. Because, like I said before in this podcast, if a ball hits you, it's your height, that means you haven't overcome that wound. There is a layer, and we heal in layers, but everybody wants like a magical button. I'm gonna press this button, heal illumination through the weekend. Is to for every time life gives you an opportunity for you to really learn and grow and evolve because that's why we're here.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, and I think that that what you just said, that's one of the things that got to my heart initially, because I was doing all the Reiki and I was doing all the inner work and the semantic release, and and I didn't realize that we had these wounds. And all the people that we have around, that they trigger us, it's a way for life of telling you, like, hey, wake up. You need to work on these things instead of feeling like a victim or feeling like, oh, they're hurting me and they're they're wrong, they're you know, they're doing these wrong things. It's like understanding like why is this happening to me? What is life teaching me? What how how do I overcome this? There is something inside me that I need to work on so they don't that I don't keep these situations around.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

The ball is not your height, so it's gonna go right over your head, it's not gonna hit you because you learned a lesson, you mastered the lesson, and we're gonna learn many lessons. It doesn't mean that you're never gonna learn anything anymore. As long as we're living, breathing, we're learning and evolving, and that's our purpose to be here.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Exactly. Yeah, no, and and I really I'm telling everyone that that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned from Thaisa and that applied to my life because I could not understand why I was doing everything and then things were not changing, and it's that change from the inside, and it's like reading all the situations. Why is this person doing this? Okay, so then I have to work this on myself. Yes, where is the wound?

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yes, what cost it? What is hurting? Why what that person told me triggered me? Exactly. Why? Like, for example, if I tell you hair is black, you're not gonna get triggered because you know it's not. The ball is not your eye, so it's not gonna hit you, it's not gonna press your button. So if it if it if it hurts, if it something happens inside of you, and it's very important to read, to have your awareness, body awareness, because you will feel in your in your body, especially in your sometimes your heart, sometimes your your navel chakra, you will feel like your gut feeling. You notice your very vision, you might see feelings and your thought forms. You might notice these things. So pause. What's happening within me? What's happening with me? I always ask this question. How what I'm feeling right now, what are my thoughts right now? I always do because you bring in alignment. It's almost like an operating system. You put it in a computer, and the computer operates through that software, correct? If you learn to ask these questions, if you learn to do the inner work, the self-inquire, it's gonna be your operating system, it's gonna be built in. It's not gonna be at the beginning, it's gonna be an effort, but at almost it's gonna be effortless. Yeah, and that's the path to know the yourself. Know thyself. The Greeks always inspire us to know thyself because that's the path to discover the whole mystery of whole life and the universe.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

And I that that is, I love that. I really do because it's like that is really the essence of it. Knowing yourself and why you're doing these things, it's what is gonna help you overcome them and then really be yourself, know your wounds, know the triggers, know all these things, like who you really are. And and a lot of people have this mysticism about like knowing who they are, thinking that at someday they're gonna have this aha moment, and there is gonna be like this whatever thinking that they're they're gonna discover themselves. But it's a process.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Little by little you start removing these things, it's layers, they are layers and layers and layers, and you know that the thyself through layers, know your physical body. We know we have science to explain that to us. Know your mental body, notice what's going on in your mind. What are your thoughts? What are you thinking? What are the because sometimes your thoughts are not. Even your thoughts is just come by to you, you know, and just notice, observe, notice what your notice your emotional astral body notice that. What are your emotions? What I'm feeling, what are my triggers? Why am I attracting aggressiveness into my life? What do I need to learn? What is going on? Notice your subtle body, your body of energy, your pranic body. So observe all the layers of your constitution. And ultimately don't identify with them. But it's good to like, I'm feeling angry. I'm feeling angry right now, but I'm not my anger. So that's how you create a separation of what you're feeling, then who truly you are. Anger comes to me, but it doesn't define me. Like when your physical body is hurt, like for example, I have a disease, I have a broken leg, but I'm not my broken leg. See, it's just like understanding a constitution to know thyself, because that's the path of liberation.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

What advice will you give to moms when you know you're stressed? Because you know, maybe your relationship with your husband is not as great, and you're stressed about that, and then you have your kids, you know, one or two kids or three kids, and and it gets to you, you know, today and having to raise them, and then and then because I I see this a lot. A lot of moms they scream at their kids and then they feel guilty because of it. So, what would be the process for someone that is under that kind of stress to take a moment to themselves, like to so then they're better to their kids and they don't transmit this energy to their kids? What would you teach them to manage that?

SPEAKER_02 23:50

I always teach to have a moment to yourself. I know it sounds like a privilege, but it's it's you need to do it because you cannot, like, even on the plane, they teach us like put your mask first. I can't give you oxygen if I'm dying. So nourish yourself, allow yourself the gift of time for you. Do whatever you want, would nourish your soul. Sometimes it's just like I'm gonna nourish my physical body, I'm gonna have my hair done or my nails done, or sometimes I'm gonna nourish my mental body, I'm gonna read a nice book. Sometimes I'm gonna nourish my energetic, I'm gonna have Reiki done on me. So nourish you so you can be a better human being and serve better your loved ones. Like Gandhi told us, be the light, work on you, be the light you want to see in the world. I know it's hacked that. I have two kids. I know it can be complicated, but there's only one path, and the path is within. So work on you, allow yourself, pamper you, nourish you, heal you. Because complete and whole human beings are gonna be better at the roles, the roles they play, the roles as a mother, as a wife, as a friend. So if we nourish us first, and sometimes what we do, we project. We have people want to be one, be complete as one. We need to be complete and then two complete people as one. Yes, I know because otherwise the other person is just a cane, it becomes your spinal, you walk through them, you breathe through them. So you transfer the responsibility of your life. They need to make you happy. No, you need to be happy yourself. Be happy, be complete, be whole, and then you find another complete whole person. But we all wounded, walk, we all trigger and wounded, walk, walking, we all wounded and triggered, walking in life, trying to find our other half. I mean, I feel like the best people, the best marriage, and the happiest marriage is when you're whole, complete within you. You know yourself and you can be better in the roles you play.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

And I think that uh that's something that I went through as well, which I learned from Thaisa. I always thought that you find the person to be happy. I always I never felt complete and I felt like I needed someone else. And I think that the work that I did through your teachings was to understand that I needed to be whole first, to love myself, to be happy within, and then you find that person which is also whole and complete and happy. Hopefully, yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Because that's the law of attraction. You resonate with what is inside of you, you attract, and then your karma is gonna lead in that direction. I see that way. Unfortunately, what happens out there is like half-wounded trigger people, they want, they transfer their power to somebody else to make them happy. Yeah, they don't feel whole and complete. And then there's a lot of blame, guilt, accusations. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

And I and I always and I feel like that's a good advice for people that are in their early 20s, you know, because sometimes they feel like they want to get married so early. And and I they need to work on themselves to then be whole and then find the right person, yeah, and then have kids and then do the whole process in life. So that is one take. And then for the people that are already married, what you're saying, nurture yourself. Yes, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Do the work your mask first, get your oxygen, because if you are, if the plane is going down, you have no oxygen, you're gonna save the other person, you're gonna die. So put your mask first. These are so basic, but we forgot the basics. And we all, and what is very important is never transfer the power of your life to somebody else. The power that you have to heal yourself is amazing. And we trans, we want to be healed by somebody else. I mean, unless if you are connected to a higher power, then yes, but not horizontally. If you connect vertically, I I agree. But like I transfer the power that I have to be, I have I transfer my power to you or to my husband or to my children. And that's not a whole relationship. Then it's always gonna be entangled, trigger. It's always, I'm sorry, it's always gonna be a mess. Because all these emotions, and then a mother that invests and sacrifices their life to their children is gonna blame and guilt their children instead of setting them free, is gonna create bondage and accusations because I did this for you, you have to do it for me. Then, like I said before, it's credit karma. I invest in you because I'm gonna get something in return. It's not true goodness. You you need to act from a kind of your own conscious. I'm gonna be a good mother because that's in my own awareness that I want to perform as a good mother, as a good person. Not because I'm investing in my kids, because it's a credit karma, that it's gonna come back to me. Like since we are in the topic of karma, I'm bringing karma back. So I invested in my son because that's what I want to do. Uh, not because he's gonna invest it in me in the future. That is up to his conscience, his decisions to make, not mine. Otherwise, it's not true giving. So I give, and there's always an attachment. I give, but I expect something in return. So that's not true giving. That's not true love or true devotion. You just needed to do for your own being.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

And with the karma, too, when it comes to mothers and kids, you know, my understanding, and then you can explain it a little bit if it's true, is that we kind of pass that karma into our kids because of our actions. So we raise them and we raise them in a way that creates these triggers. Yes. And then they go in life, and then the kids are already.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah, it's uh I think it's our jobs to heal ourselves because we are gonna become more whole, complete human beings, and we can perform our actions better and our roles better. I mean, if the kid is born through you, it's uh you already have the karma. So you already, or you can have the dharma, so you already have the life circumstances that put you together. And there is a reason why you are the mother of that child. Perform your role as a mother from the best point of your ability. And I feel like a complete human being, a human being that is working on themselves to be the light in the world, they're gonna perform amazing in their roles as a mother, as a wife, as a friend. That's how I see it. When I marry, I'm gonna say something personal. When I marry my husband, my mother-in-law, she told me he's gonna be an amazing husband because he's a great, amazing son. And uh I believe in that. If you are amazing in the roles you play, you are already amazing. So I believe that ripples through what you do in life, your different roles. I don't see an amazing human being being a terrible mother. I don't see that because it just naturally will flow from inside out.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

So that's how I see it. And it's true because I have two kids, and I think the way I raised my son and the way I used to be with him is completely different than the way I am with my daughter now. I mean, there are a few years in between, and I think I had the opportunity to work on myself. And you can't, it's possible. If you do the work on yourself, you will put this energy into your kids, and your life will be very different, and you will be helping your kids. And I think that that's a message that I wanted to bring also with the karma today. Yes, because it's a family. Yeah, you know, we bring all these things from our heart to our kids, and then it's like a cycle that it continues with the karma.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yeah, I agree. And the cycle has to end with us because we become a whole complete in our own existence. We don't transfer, like we see that a lot. Parents, like, for example, that never had a chance, for example, to go to a medical school, but they transfer, they want their son to go, but maybe it's not their calling, and maybe it's not their passion, maybe it's not their dharma to follow that path. But you see, when we don't work on ourselves, we project, we transfer, we want other people to do something that we need to do ourselves. If I want to go to medical school, I'll go to medical school. I'm not gonna transfer to my son. I'm gonna not transfer my frustration, my anxiety, my fears to my son. I'll do it. So, and that's our role to become a whole, more complete human being so we we can be better in the roles we play.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

And that's today's episode. We hope this gave you a deeper understanding of karma, not as something outside of you, but as something you're actively creating through your thoughts, your emotions, and your actions. Because every moment is an opportunity, an opportunity to react or to respond with awareness, an opportunity to repeat a pattern or to heal it. And as we talked about today, the people and situations that trigger you are not there to work against you. They are there to show you what is still asking for your attention, your awareness, and your healing. This is a path to wholeness, not avoiding life, but using every experience as a doorway back to yourself. If this resonated with you, feel free to share with someone who might need this perspective. And if you have questions or topics you would like us to explore, leave them in the comments. We would love to include them in future episodes. Thank you for being here with us on Path to Wholeness. Remember, this journey is not about becoming someone new, it's about returning to who you truly are. Take what resonated, integrate it into your life, and trust your own process. We will see you in the next episode.