Zen & the Art of Living S.L.O.W.
Zen & the Art of Living Slow is a podcast for educators who want to stay in the work without losing themselves along the way. Hosted by Cheryl-Marie Manson, founder of Zen & the Art of School Administration and a former school administrator, and Lauren Kazee, a licensed school social worker and founder of Living S.L.O.W., the show offers practical conversations about regulating stress, leading with intention, and sustaining meaningful work in schools.
Zen & the Art of Living S.L.O.W.
Meeting the Moment with Debbie McFalone
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Debbie McFalone Website (find her book!)
Okay, hello. Welcome to Zen and the Art of Living Slow podcast. I am your co-host, Lauren Kazee.
SPEAKER_04And I'm Cheryl Marie Manson. Welcome back, everyone. We are enjoying creating these spaces for all of you and appreciate all the positive feedback we're getting from them. So thanks for being with us.
SPEAKER_03So true. I feel like you and I are learning important life lessons and better ways to prioritize our own wellness as we prepare and record these episodes, Cheryl Marie.
SPEAKER_04I agree. Which is why I'm especially excited to introduce this month's topic and our first guest. This month, we're talking about what it means to truly meet the moment with Debbie McFlone. So, Debbie, I've actually known you for more than 30 years. Um, and throughout my career, I have appreciated you for different reasons depending on the season. Honestly, I first met you when I was student teaching at Bretton Downs Elementary, which is in East Grand Rapids in Michigan. And at the time, that elementary building, so this is early 90s, that elementary building was using email, which was not commonplace at the time. So that was really cool. And so I had this great idea. I had seen it somewhere that I could go to the Louvre. So when I was at home and I tried it out on my AOL dial-up, it worked just fine. So when I went to the classroom and tried to do it in the class, I assumed it would work and it wasn't working. And my teacher at the time, I think it was Marty Shardin, she said, you know what? Debbie has like it's direct connected to her computer because she's the principal. So we took 24 students down the hall to this building principal's office. And I've got to tell you, I was horrified because you know, everything's supposed to be perfect.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Zen and the Art of Living Slow with Lauren Kazee and Cheryl Marie Manson. Here is another episode where we talk about slowing down, finding clarity, and navigating leadership, life, and well-being with more intention. We're glad you're here.
SPEAKER_04And here I am, outing myself in front of the building principal that I didn't plan appropriately. But Debbie, you were nothing but gracious. You let all the kids, you stepped out because it was a small office, I'm sure you remembered. Yeah. You stepped out so that all of the kids could cram in that office. And honestly, that memory has stayed with me through all these years because looking back, I realize it captured so much of who you are as a leader. You're supportive, um, you're innovative, and you're always willing to meet the moment.
SPEAKER_01So that's so kind of you. I'm not certain how that memory ever, ever stayed with you, but that's great. You know, Cheryl Marie, I have to tell you how the world goes full circle. Next fall, my granddaughter will be at Bretton Downs Elementary School where we both met and used to be. No way.
SPEAKER_03I just got goosebumps.
SPEAKER_01Isn't that funny?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_04So great. I love that.
SPEAKER_03Full circle moment.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, before we begin, I thought it'd be helpful just to set the stage a little bit around this topic. So, Debbie, you've written a book called Meeting the Moment, A Call for Courage, and which has that also inspired the title for this podcast. Um, it was published in 2025, and in it, you lean into this idea that leadership, especially in education, requires courage. Um, throughout the book, you challenge us to think about what it means to truly meet the moment instead of avoiding discomfort, which I think is the hardest thing to do as a leader. You talk about the kind of courage that asks leaders to stay grounded, reflective, and connected to your values. Uh, what I what I appreciate about this conversation is that it really isn't about having all the answers. It's really about learning how to stay present in the work, how to lead with intention and from our values and how to create those spaces where people feel seen. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03I I love this. Um, the timing of this conversation, I think, too, is so important. I just recently attended the MASA Women in Leadership Conference. As Cheryl, Marie and I were talking about your book, Debbie, and having you on the show, it reminded me of um this event and one of the keynote speakers. And I actually I love that event. It's there's so much energy with women leaders in the room. There was like 400 this year. I think last year was 200. It just continues to grow so much. One of the main speakers was talking about she is a newscaster at ESPN. And when she was brand new, kind of like you were just saying, as a baby principal, she was brand new in her position and she was sitting in a meeting and she was the only female in the room. And so you can imagine sports world, you know, she was, yeah, she was just she's sitting in this room and they were trying to problem solve and she had an idea, but she was a little bit hesitant. She was kind of timid, didn't have that courage yet to speak up and to say something in front of this men, this group room of men. And so she hesitated, and then one of her colleagues spoke up, a male, and he shared the same idea that she had been thinking of. And of course, everybody was like, Great idea, all the accolades. And she's like, Oh, why didn't I say something? And so I think it just is like being in that moment and having the courage to be able to speak up. So I'm um grateful for the timing of this conversation.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. So let's enough about us. Let's let's talk about talk about Debbie. Let's let's dig into this. We thought it would be beneficial to our growing audience to have you share some of your insights as we encourage our listeners to embrace Zen and other self-care practices. Can you tell us a little bit about just yourself, maybe your background, and the impetus behind your new book? Sure.
SPEAKER_01I am so happy to celebrate this invitation to your podcast before we start. I said I'm just busting my buttons. I'm so excited to be your first guest. So thank you to both of you. Um, let me see a moment if I can connect the dots about um what led me to really focus on courage, if I may. So in my work, I've been a school person as Cheryl referenced for a long time. And for the last 12, excuse me, 12 years, I've been serving leaders in local school districts and educational organizations. It's just my joy. And my goal has always been to help leaders sustain their strong leadership over time, instead of having a great deal of energy and end up depleted, disillusioned, disheartened, and ready to just really question their own value and who they are. And so what I've come to is I've been able to think and read and write to this idea that in order to remain healthy and whole, sometimes if our leaders are experiencing a high degree of anxiety, depression, that kind of thing, it may be because their personal core values are not aligned with the values of the organization where they're trying to serve. And so that led me to where courage comes in. It takes courage today to live your values, to align your behavior with your values and your deepest guiding principles. We call it being the same inside and out. And when we are the same inside and out, it removes a great deal of our anxiety and our core depression and unhappiness because we're celebrating well-being. We remove the distraction of tension and negativity and of this misalignment. So the courage that we need allows us to embrace well-being. And yes, we may have uncertainty about our next steps and our future, et cetera, but we will know who we are and who we want to be.
SPEAKER_03I love that. I'm so glad you're here, Debbie. As you were talking, it reminds me a little bit about um Living Slow, S-L-O-W, and the S actually stands for sticking to your values. And so there's an alignment between our messages. And I think you're right to be able to have that um alignment between what you believe and what you're able to do. And I think it can be so challenging sometimes in schools because there's expectations to keep pushing, push, push, push when sometimes you feel like, oh, I just need to slow down or I just need to take a break, or I want to go in a different direction. So I appreciate your focus on helping people to find that so that they can um elevate their wellness.
SPEAKER_04In our last podcast, we talked about staying in our window in this idea of like some self-regulation. And I know towards the end of the book, when you're talking about the different way courage shows up, you talk about really kind of talk about regulation, that sometimes we are, let's see, the challenge is that often that inner voice is subdued or ignored because we're too busy to even realize we're getting those signals. And so, and then you go on to say the sobering fact is that over time we start to live outer directed rather than inward. And so I think there's a lot of not just administrators, there's a lot of educators, there's a lot of people that are living very outward directed. So what suggestions, recommendations do you have for people that might be living that way?
SPEAKER_01Thank you. One of the reasons that I intentionally structured this book to be very interactive is that it is meant, you'll you'll find as you look through the book, there are pages that are structured as a mind map. There are pages for journaling. And I continue to say to the people with whom I work that it is so critically important for us to carve out even 10 to 15 minutes in the morning or at some time of day, whether we're on a treadmill or whether we are sitting quietly with a cup of tea or coffee, it is so important to routinely reflect. It is whether we call it meditating, it is whether we do journaling, it is whether we're simply reflecting or praying. I often tell people when, you know, if they're looking for a prompt to focus on in the morning, your question is, how can I serve today? And how will I be the best leader that I can be? And in the evening, the question for reflection is, what did I learn today? What did I learn? Right? How'd I grow?
SPEAKER_02Right?
SPEAKER_01So the morning question asks you, who needs you today? And how do you want to intentionally make certain that you connect with a person and that you have the courage that you need to step into something that perhaps feels a little difficult? But who needs you to be that leader? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I love that. So that makes me think of what we talked about in our last podcast, Cheryl Marie, about your routines and your morning routine and your evening routine. So I'm like, oh, you may have to modify that and ask those questions. I know one thing for me too, we have talked also on this podcast about the stories that we tell ourselves and how sometimes they can be this negative record playing over and over. And I think what you're suggesting, Debbie, feels like that breaks that cycle to be able to have some of that self-reflection and to have those prompts, especially at the end of the day, where you can like what did I learn? And I think even too, just feeling grateful that um you did the best that you could for that day and that you get a new day to be able to put those things into practice and to start over, and it's a fresh start. And I love I love the ideas of just those two easy prompts to help to think through.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. If it's been a tough day, I sometimes come back and remind myself of Maya Angelou's lovely quote: every storm runs out of rain. And no, if it's a tough day, Lauren, just as you said, tomorrow will be new, and wind the clock and get up and do it again. I also want to stress that I say to people continually, it is only 10 or 15 minutes. You don't know need to get up an hour early, although I do, but only 10 or 15 minutes to just calm yourself and quiet yourself, and to say to yourself a favorite quote, or to do a two-minute reading from a lovely book, right? That enriches you. What you are doing is you're grounding yourself so that you can meet the needs of your people. Gallup tells us that the four key needs of our followers right now are they need leaders who envision trust, who are hopeful, who have compassion, and who are stable. And what we are doing in that quiet 10 to 15 minutes of reflection time is we are equipping ourselves to meet those four most critical needs of our followers today: trust, hope, stability, and compassion. We can't do that if we are weak and depleted ourselves.
SPEAKER_03I love that. Cheryl Marie and I started this podcast to help people in education or any helping professional to know that self-care doesn't have to be this long, intensive, hard thing and one more thing on the plate kind of feeling that it can be an easily embedded question, 10 minutes of reflection, that it um is something that doesn't have to feel so out of reach or extra.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And I tell people start to think of it as an investment that quiet reflection time is an investment.
SPEAKER_04My morning routine, like Lauren said, I do some spiritual reading in the morning, nothing crazy heavy. It's more hopeful and more grounded. And I do it before I will not look at TikTok, inst, you know, Facebook, Instagram, the news, because I want to set the tone for my day and for my mind. And then, like you said, I do do some reading as well. I do 10 minutes. I say no more than 10 minutes. I use Substack. You know, I like to go in there and kind of see some different topics. Where do you go for your readings every morning?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, I have some favorite quotes and verses and things that mean a great deal of mine, like the quote from Saint Julian of Norwich: all will be well and all will be well, and all manner of things will be well, for there is a force of love flowing in the universe that surrounds us and will never let us go. So I have a few cards like that that I've made and laminated myself like a former teacher. And I often go through cards with my favorite verses. And just as an aside, you know, I have given laminated cards with some of my favorite verses to some of my friends who are struggling with disease and sadness for grief for different things. And I I have found just it is a personal thing that they have really appreciated.
SPEAKER_04So thoughtful.
SPEAKER_03I love the idea of all will be well. I say that regularly.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_04So completely um off script, but you just made me think about I've had you again through different seasons of my life. One of the seasons is when I was at Bam Buren ISD as the director of instruction there. I asked to come in and do a training there. Right off the bat, you asked for a list of the participants who were going to be there. True.
SPEAKER_01Tell us more about that. Well, the goal in my work is that is to serve the people that I am working with. And just as another aside, people have asked me before, you know, do you ever still get stage right? Or are you nervous or anxious before you work? Some of my groups have, you know, 60 people in there. And I have said, I have learned through the years that when I have stage fright or I am anxious, which I am, but I have learned that when I am in that space, I am about me and thinking about me. And what alleviates anxiety and that stage fright and that imposter syndrome before I work with a group is for me to say, who are they and how can I serve them? So before I work with groups, I have a group of 45 people tomorrow that I've not met yet. And I have a list of the participants, who they are, where they are from, what their roles are. And you know, it just helps me. I feel like I want to familiarize myself with who is in the room and how many principals do I have? How many special ed people do I have? How many instructional coaches do I have? How many, do you know? And that makes me think, well, then what examples might I use? What article might be most helpful for these people? So it helps me to try to serve my people well and in a very self-centered way, it alleviates my anxiety because I already know a little bit something about them.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Well, and just being others focused, right? Like you said, when you're thinking, oh, I'm nervous, and how are you? I mean, really, it's basically like, how am I going to come across and how what are they going to think of me versus how can I, like you said, teach your word, serve them and focus on what they need in the moment. That's really great.
SPEAKER_04So tomorrow you're working with um you're working with building principals from all over Michigan. And I I know them because I've met with them before. And so I know some of the things that they're worried about, that they're thinking about. And I know what's going to come up, especially because the topic before you've come on um to speak with them has been around special education and inclusive practices.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_04These are building leaders who are really trying to promote and shift their culture in some of them though have maybe toxic cultures. And so in your book, you talk about toxic cultures.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_04And unfortunately, a lot of us inherit maybe um a a culture like that. So I love how you make it feel simple in your book. You really do. That if we know our personal values and live by them, it makes confronting these issues and conversations easier. So can you just share an experience maybe that you had personally or what led you to this portion of the book?
SPEAKER_01Sure. So because I work with people who are doing this on a daily basis, and I also do individual leadership coaching. So the middle section of the book, as you know, Cheryl Marie, is called Face Your Struggle and Find Your Strength. And we don't want to sit around and admire the fact that we're working in a toxic or resistant culture. But what do we do to cope with that? And as you said, some things just take preparation, reflection, and thinking about before, you know, what can I say in these instances where I encounter resistance? And so sometimes people have said to me, Debbie, when you equip us with the script and the sentence stems to say in response, it's so helpful. So in the book, I have tried to do that, and you'll find that if you if you equip yourself as a leader with, okay, what what can I say now? And they are things like, here's where I may disagree with you. I'm thinking that do you know? Or gosh, what you've just said makes me feel very uncomfortable. Or my sense of fairness is offended by what you just said about those children. Do you know? So sometimes, as I've said, it is fair. I I always say, you know, at my heart, I'm a simple girl. And sometimes it has been very simply equipping people with a few sentence stems to have in our back pocket. Because here's what happens. Many people like me grew up in a loving, supportive family. And what used to happen to me was when I encountered a really snide or remark that was out of line, I was just frozen in time because I did not grow up hearing that. But we all liked each other in my family. So I'm trying to save the people that I work with and serve from being frozen in time and knowing, boom, here's what I'm gonna say. And I also think this is really important. I tell people you can embrace the gift and have the power to say, what you just said is something I want to be really thoughtful about before I respond. And so I'm going to think about how to respond to this. And I will return to you and continue this conversation before the end of school tomorrow. But right now, I want to be really thoughtful on how I respond. And sometimes I think we've raised a generation of leaders who think, boom, I've got to get in there and respond right now and my arms up and to do it right. And that is not true. Um, I have every right as a leader to embrace our power as the CEO of our organization and to say, I'm going to take time to respond to you because I want to be really thoughtful.
SPEAKER_03I love that. That also just makes me think about the benefit of going slow to bring it back to our little podcast theme here. And I think sometimes, even when you take those moments, you can come up with a better response. Because I think you're right, Debbie. I think the pressure is we're in like automatic pilot. I got to check this off the list, or I have to answer right now, or I've got to get back to them right away. And sometimes if you can give yourself that moment to pause and reflect and even maybe sleep on it and come back the next day, your emotions are died, have died down. You've had time to kind of process it a little bit. And to me, it feels like it maybe can make things dissipate a little bit easier versus maybe then fueling the flame sometimes.
SPEAKER_01Yep. You are coming back to the stability that the person's need and the regulation to use a great word for in education right now. You're coming back to what your follower needs. They need you to be stable. They also don't mean, don't need for you to say something that you can't follow up on or that you really don't mean. I love that.
SPEAKER_03All right. Well, unfortunately, we are starting to wind our time down here. I am so grateful. But as we begin to wrap up, and again, just thinking about our mission that Cheryl, Marie and I have to help those in the field of education to become the best versions of themselves, hoping that you can maybe share one more takeaway for our listeners as they consider meeting their moment.
SPEAKER_01Sure. So I'm very uncomfortable in the sales role, but may I just add that if anyone is interested, the book is called Meeting the Moment, a Call for Courage. And you can find it easily on my website, which is livewellleadstrong.com. I want you to know it is a very interactive book that part one is about your own values and how you ground yourself in them and use them as a foundation. The second part is the one we mentioned face your struggles and finding your strength. How do we cope with perfectionism, isolationism, dealing with resistant or toxic people, etc. And uh the last book, last part of the book is four types of courage that leaders need today. And I believe it helps leaders to think about empowering themselves to leave this legacy of courage that is really what we want to leave in the world where we lead. So I'm so grateful for the time to share about my new book today. And I'm just thankful for being invited to talk about something and hoping that it will be very helpful to your listeners. So thank you to both of you.
SPEAKER_04Well, Debbie, I definitely enjoyed the book, and I know our listeners can't see it. Mine is marked up with my three different tabs because there was things I wanted to ask you about. There was things that I thought, oh, that's great advice. And then my red tabs are um my OM wow. Like that was really cool, what you just said there. So I highly recommend the book. I think it's very grounded in um intentionality, I would say. And I I appreciate that. I think we need more of that in the world right now. I will make sure to put the information about the book and how they can purchase it in our show notes. But the last question that I have for you, I just need to know. In the book, you talk about art and music and the impact that it's had on you personally. So I just have to know what is it an instrument? Is it art? Do you sing? What is it?
SPEAKER_01You know, I grew up in a musical family, and my first degree is actually in vocal music. And I do sing and play the piano. And my husband and I, you know, a favorite evening is to go to a concert or see a Broadway show or something like that. So yeah, that is a favorite way to spend my time. And I do still pound the piano every week at at my church with my small team of people who, you know, we're not good and we don't care. We're there to have fun with each other. And uh, you know, we we do we do that. Yeah, thanks for listening. So thanks for asking about that. Oh, that's so great.
SPEAKER_04I had no idea. Well, thank you so much, Debbie, for your gift of time and wisdom. My it's truly has been a pleasure to have you join us and in all of your contributions to the education field. Like I said, I've connected with you throughout different phases of my career, and it's I've very much appreciated you. Thanks. I know I'm taking away the idea to connect with my why and allowing that to give me the courage I need in difficult times. Uh, what about you, Lauren?
SPEAKER_03I have several takeaways, but I think I am actually gonna start to do my, I'm gonna start to be like you, Cheryl Marie, and do this morning routine. I love the idea of starting with a question and ending with reflection. I think just being more intentional about that feels doable and it feels like it will have a great impact. So thank you for that tip, Debbie. And I know there's many other things you've shared today that I am um just taking away in my heart. So, listeners, um, this is your turn to think about for yourself. What is your takeaway? So, maybe what's one idea from this conversation, all of the things that Debbie shared and the the discussion that we had here that you can take in your pocket as you walk away today. So, next month, we are looking forward to having a conversation around trust, which is how you trust the universe and how do you trust that things will work out when you don't see a path forward, or how can you trust the other people around you if there's a shift underway? So we will be joined by our second guest, Colin Ripmaster, who is starting a new professional chapter as the executive director at Michigan's Association of Secondary School Principals, M A S S P otherwise known. And uh, we look forward to having you join us then. So thank you for being with us today. And thanks again to Debbie for your time.
SPEAKER_04You bet. Yes, thank you, and thank you for being here with us. Until next time, stay grounded, stay present, and stay in the work.