Somehow Together?

In this episode, we explore the origins behind the Somehow Together Podcasts and get to know the voices behind the mics.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to the Somehow Together podcast, where we explore faith, connection, and everything that holds us together. I'm Miranda.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

And I'm Erica.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

You know, life is messy.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Relationships are messy.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

But we weren't meant to do life alone.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

And God is still at work in the middle of it all. So we're still showing up somehow together.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Hello, and thank you for joining us for our very first episode of Somehow Together. I am one of the hosts here, and my name is Miranda. And I am so glad that you are joining us. With me today is the other co-host, my amazing friend Erica. And before we jump in to the first episode of this awesome season, we wanted to spend a little bit of time introducing ourselves so that you could get to know the voices behind the microphones. So without further ado, I want to introduce you to Erica, and she's going to tell you a little bit more about herself.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Thanks, Miranda. Well, my name is Erica Matters, and I, along with Miranda, currently live in Washington State. Miranda's getting ready to relocate soon, and so this will be a distance podcast, but we're excited that we'll be able to stay connected, even while she's living in a different state. But um I am a pastor's wife, and I have been for about 26 years now, which sounds like a very long time, and it really has been. So um, Miranda, why don't you share a little bit about you two so that they can get to know you?

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Yes. Thank you. I I just have to say, as Erica was introducing herself when she said she's not the typical pastor's wife, it made me chuckle a little bit because I actually still remember the first time that we really hung out after we, my husband and my family and I moved here and you invited me out to lunch. And I just remember thinking, oh my goodness, what an amazing personality she has. And I think that I could force myself to be friends with her, or rather force her to be friends with me. So I'm so excited that years later we actually are still friends together, and this is an adventure that we are going on. And so anyway, but um, so yes, my name is Miranda. Miranda Plyler is my last name, and I have a husband and two teenage boys. Um, Nate is my husband. He is not a pastor, I am not a pastor's wife. Uh, however, I do work in ministry at our local church as an ordained elder in the Church of the Nazarene. And so I get to kind of be on the other side of ministry from Erica, but it has still been an honor and a privilege to be able to serve alongside her and the other leaders that we have here at the church. My my husband, Nate, he loves worship. So he is one of our worship leaders. And my boy is my oldest, is just getting ready to graduate this summer. So we are embarking on the very early stages of what it looks like to have our teens leave the house. So um, I am sure we will flood some of these episodes with some of our personal stories because so much of life is lived personally and we get to share those pieces with you. In addition to being a wife and a mom and a pastor, I'm also a trauma chaplain. And so a lot of my heart behind walking alongside people in the local church is to help bring some trauma-informed perspectives into what does it look like to live um just faithfully with the Lord through some really hard and challenging times. But also, what does it look like for us to provide support for each other, even if maybe you don't know Jesus? And so um, yeah, I guess I guess that's kind of where my heart is. And and as Eric and I have talked, we just wanted to do something a little wild and crazy. So here we are.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Here we are. Um, also, as part of your job, you train others to also have that trauma for informed perspective. And so I think it's exciting that this podcast might be a way that we can help um help others to see things differently, maybe um use faith as a resource to help people, but also um know how to sit with people in their pain and their struggles and not always give an easy answer. Yeah, that sometimes the church is known to have provided in the past. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

That is so good. I think so many people have such good hearts and they want to be able to walk alongside and come alongside people, and yet they just have never really learned how to do that well. I mean, I I didn't. I thought I would was doing a lot of good. And then in some of my learning and and just equipping for myself, I realized that there are some some things that I probably did that were more hurtful than than helpful. So learning's all learning. Learning's good. Yes, yes. All right, so now we get to get to the fun stuff. Why a podcast? There are so many podcasts out there. Um, and so why why a podcast? And so this is something that you know, Erica and I we've we've we've kind of joked about doing over the years, but really something I'd say probably in the last two years really started shifting for us. So, Erica, tell us a little bit about how how we got started. What is it that kind of brought us here in this room together? Like, how did how did we get here?

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Well, I think you hit on it. Like Miranda and I had a lot of uh conversations over a long period of years about how God might want to use us being women in ministry or women who have a passion for Jesus and um in and being involved in ministry, we were trying to find our place and trying to find our role. And so we've been praying and talking about it a lot over the years. And um, as I transitioned back into the workplace as a mental health counselor, I was praying even more about how how can God use my gifts and how can God use us to continue to have influence and um help teach and guide people in the area of faith and community and mental health. And so the podcast idea came up and we laughed about it at first, and then we laughed a lot about it, and then we prayed, and then we probably laughed some more, and then we both were trying to read whether the other person was actually serious about the idea, and finally we put it on the schedule and started uh planning some some of the details that are required to pull off a podcast, and so um it's kind of how it started. I have a passion for podcasts because it's my favorite medium for learning. Uh I like that I can listen and do other things, I can listen to it in the car. Um, and there's been times in my life where I've felt kind of alone in ministry, and sometimes I feel pastored even by some of those podcast leaders. You get to know them personally, you feel like you know them personally. Yeah. And um, and they bring in sometimes really great speakers and people that have a lot of things that can uh they say a lot of wise things that can help you along your faith journey. And so I've just had a passion for podcasts that way. I also love chatting with Miranda, and she's just we just have a lot of fun when we're together, and so this idea of sitting across from each other or even across through a screen together and chatting, it just sounds fun. And so we both love to talk about God and we like to talk about how we're growing in our faith. We like um talking about mental health and um how we can best uh make sure that we're the healthiest people, moms, um, leaders we can be. And we also like to laugh a lot. Like a lot.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Yeah. I remember Erica. I remember for me, when I think about how we got here, I did I did say we laughed a lot because we did. Um, I think that for both of us, it was something that we both desired to do. I and you hit it on the head perfectly when you said, but we tried to figure out if the other person was actually serious because there was a lot of laughter involved. Uh for me, I think it was sitting at the She Speaks conference last summer when we both went there. An amazing conference put on by Proverbs um 31. Great ministry. And I think that's the I think that was the first time when the real like the idea of doing a podcast started to feel like it could become maybe a reality. And even then it took us a few months to a few more months to to get there. But here, you know, here we are. And we are. We're just so excited to be able to share our hearts and how God is moving and and truly help people like you, our listeners, learn and explore what it means to truly live a holistically full life. Because I do think that that is life that Jesus wants for us. And so that's how we got here. And then, oh my Lanta, there was so much that came with the planning parts that we were not really prepared for. But the biggest piece was picking a name because there is power in a name, and we didn't name the podcast somehow together by accident. And so, how did we name our podcast, Erica? And what what was the motivation really behind it?

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Well, we felt like um we wanted a name that indicated a few different different things, different aspects of kind of our mission. And um, one of the things that we thought thinking is important is connection. And so we were trying to find a way to make sure we incorporate connection into our name. Um, and God has had me on this journey of trying to um get personal with people, and so I feel like it just fits my faith journey right now really well, this idea of getting personal, um with even just a few small, like a few people in my circle. And um, so I but it's hard because there's not very many people who've invested me in that way. And so I've been trying to find tools and ideas that I can implement in this personal getting personal journey. And um, so as I as I have been learning, I would like to share what I've been learning with with people. And so that idea of together is a is a ties that personal part in. Um, we also wanted this like a faith component, I think. Um being in the church for over, well, almost 40 plus years, um, you start to realize that the church is the most odd, the most unlikely group of people, right? We have people who are all ages from zero to in their 90s. We have people who are on all different ends of the political spectrum. We have people who are introverts and extroverts, we have people that are funny and serious, and it's just this um this big group of people that is very unlikely. And so somehow we've been put together on this journey in this race to finish, you know, finish strong of um, and so we need to encourage each other and um and help each other, and somehow there's no expert strategies on making that happen, but we figured like somehow that happens. And um, we do know that the somehow is actually by God's strength and holy and the Holy Spirit, but um, we wanted the title to kind of indicate that we are experts, we don't have it figured out, nobody has it figured out. And so somehow, somehow we're together, we're somehow put together, but we're also somehow gonna make it together to this to this goal that yeah that God set before us.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Yeah, and there's so many differences. I mean, I think even between you and I and our our friendship, there's so many things that that we enjoy together, but we also have so many differences as well, and yet we are still somehow together as as friends. When I when I was thinking about the component of the togetherness, because I think that's so important, is that peace for connection. And I think about how if you go back early on, very, very early in in the Bible, it's the it's it starts in Genesis, and you know, as God creates the the world and everything he creates, he says it is good. Light is good, um, the creatures are good, the plants are good, everything is good. And then he creates mankind and he looks at Adam and he says, This is very good. There's only one place in the creation story where God says this is not good. And it is when he looks at Adam and He says, It is not good for this man to be alone. And oftentimes we look at that as between spouses, but I think it goes so much deeper than that. There's such a huge relational component to in the intentionality when God created men and women to be together in community, and it's not surprising because you look at the Trinity and the the relationship, even in the fullness of who God is. And so that together piece for me is just so so important and and so key. And then the somehow is all the mess that that comes with it, right? The the differences, the the just the messy life that we live, both inside the church and outside the church, and and somehow by God's grace, we are able to to journey this life together. And so it definitely was an intentional name. And we really just want to encourage people to find and be in community, whatever that looks like. And so that's gonna be kind of a focus that we keep coming back to is what does community look like? And how do we how do we find that somehow together as we as we live out this life that we've been called to live? And it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

I love that. I love that. Thank you for that reminder of how it's God wired us this way. We are created in his image to be in community, and so when we don't have that, we feel it. We know that there's something lacking in our lives, and we and I hear it a lot. I hear a lot in my counseling room, I hear a lot from people in churches and my small groups that they feel alone, they feel like they don't have connections. Um, they feel like they're always the one putting in the effort. Um, and I just uh think it's it's just an important reminder for people to realize they're not, yeah, they're not alone in this journey, that we are all struggling with it. It's a it's you know, a common humanity issue. And um, and then God speaks to it.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

They're wired for this community. We are literally neurobiologic, like neurobiologically wired to have a deep sense of belonging with each other. We were we were wired for community. We were literally never meant to be alone, and yet we live in this time that seems so connected with cell phones and technology and podcasts, right? Like, but the ability to connect with each other is unending. And yet there are higher levels of loneliness reported now than ever before. It's it's incredible to me, it's crazy. And so we just really want to be part of the solution, I think. And I say that as I know that we're sitting like behind microphones on a podcast asking you to listen to it. Um but I think that's just part of life. We're gonna we're gonna listen and we're gonna consume, but then we also have a responsibility to go and do different too.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

So and at a minimum, you and I are gonna feel together. Oh, absolutely. Somehow together, even you know, yes, wherever this podcast goes, however, God uses it, absolutely it'll be a journey for us to grow and to be together. So yeah, we can't lose. No, no, win-win for us, yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

So I know I I think Erica, we we have definitely touched on this already, but I want to ask it just really clearly as we've been talking and planning and dreaming about the podcast, what like what do you hope people get from listening and being with us? Like at a deep level, like what is that that you hope for in this?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Um, I have a few ideas on how to answer that question. Well, I feel like as we learn, as we personally learn how to be um get more personal in our connections and our relationships, and we share our journey, we hope that others will be inspired to be vulnerable and to try to deepen their connections as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Um I hate I I have always struggled with this like this I this idea that I want to have some kind of influence, but I feel like God has God has put that in my heart, this passion to um to impact others, impact the world around me. And so um I hope that by sharing and being vulnerable and um even sharing resources that I've come across that we can help impact people to um try to reach out to others and deepen their connections.

unknown 18:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Um I really feel like the only way, at least the best way for us to be able to disciple each other is going to be through personal connection. Yes. Um, I think too often for too long we've relied on programming in our churches to disciple people. Um, but what I've learned in my years of ministry is that that only goes so far.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Um, the church can only do so much. And the best ways we learn is through those per personal connections where people um can speak into our lives, they can hold us accountable, they um they know what's going on, and and they can point us towards scripture, they can point us towards God and what God would have for our lives. And so we can only do so much through the church. And so I guess I, as a personal um, somebody who believes really strongly in personal connection, I feel like the best way to disciple. Also, Jesus did it that way. So I'm kind of like Jesus was a he invested in people and got personal with people, and then he was able to disciple his disciples. So um, I feel like that's just kind of a goal. And then I hope somehow together we can share our podcast with friends and the passion that we've shared together in growing in our faith, the area of mental health and relationships, um, just that passion that we have. So, how about you? What are you hoping?

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Yeah, I heard I actually just heard recently this phrase social wellness. Oh, yeah. And I was like, ooh, I really like that because I think so often we focus on these pockets of our life, um, physical wellness, mental wellness, spiritual wellness, and emotional wellness, and all of those things are super important. Um, but I think sometimes we forget about the social piece that that thing that connects us all together, right? And so um I think that I want people to be inspired to figure out what does social wellness look like for them? How how do we how do we uh take those brave steps into community and allow the Lord to foster those relationships with other people because it is really, really, really hard. I as you were talking to and you were talking about um being encouraged by other people and helping point, like being invested in the lives of people to help point them to Jesus and also allow them to point you to Jesus when you're struggling. It reminded me of the story in Mark when the the paralyzed man's friends brought him to Jesus. Yeah, like literally dug into a rooftop to lower him down to Jesus because I could not get through the crowds. Like, could you even imagine being Jesus and he's he's speaking in the roof, literally starts falling in, and then there's this guy that's just lowered down to you. But that's the type of connection that I I want for myself, and I want other people to find it is not just to be a friend who is the carrier to Jesus. Like I think we can all kind of do that sometimes, but sometimes we don't allow ourselves to be carried to Jesus. And so I want people to open up and be vulnerable enough to have those deeper connections to where you will be carried to Jesus when you need it too. Because sometimes our lives are gonna go really, really well, and we get to be the ones who carry others, and sometimes our lives are not. Going as well as we had hoped them to be, and we will need to be carried. And so being vulnerable enough and having the people in your life who can look at you and be like, ooh, I think I need to carry carry her to the Lord and be willing to step into that place and do it.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

I remember hearing, um, I don't remember if it was a book or a podcast or where I got this information from, but um, somebody was talking about how if you want to be able to help your friends when they have needs, you have to be willing to ask for help when you have needs.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Because it's like giving them permission to ask for help. And so often we hear people say, Of course I want to help my friends. Of course I want to jump in there and meet their needs in this moment or whatever, but we're not very good at asking for help when we need it. And so um, that idea of like being willing to ask for help when we need it is really giving your friends permission than to ask you for help when they need it. And so it's the same thing. It's like, how can we allow ourselves to be carried sometimes um so that we we are then privileged to be able to help carry someone else um down the road. So yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

I love that too. I love that um that that is so much that it shows the reciprocal nature of relationships and connection. And I think inadvertently sometimes we put these, I mean, in my life I call them like micro walls up, where you can kind of look over it, but you might not you might have a hard time climbing over it. And so I have had to learn over years to to start breaking down those micro walls and allow people in in a more authentic way. Because I will do anything. I mean, not anything. I will do a lot of things. Almost almost anything for people, right? Um, because we are we're helpers by nature, and yet so many times I found myself on the other side suffering alone because I wouldn't allow people in because I would put those micro walls up. And so much of relationship is reciprocated. Eventually, people will stop asking you for help if you never reciprocate and open yourself up in that way to other people. And I think that is the same way with a lot of different things, not just when it comes to help, but just connection in general. And so we have to learn how to how to reciprocate in relationship and not just be one-sided in it. And that is for the givers and the receivers on both sides. It is easy to to land on one one side of those and just kind of stay there. And we have to remind ourselves that we have to jump across that line sometimes to be the friend that we're supposed to be and to find those connections that we're longing for. Yeah. So agreed. Yeah. All right, Erica. I know, and this is probably I I think as I was thinking of just some of the some of the questions that we were gonna talk through today. I love hearing you talk about how you've how you've learned about community and connection. And I know that you are a podcast person, I know that you love listening to podcasts, you love anyway, all those things. I tend to be more of a book reader, and so this is definitely a new arena for me. Um, but what is one of or two of some of your favorite people that you've been learning from when it comes to community and connection?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

All right. Well, you know, at first when you sent me the questions, it said one, and I was like, one, I have to limit myself to one. Okay, no, you can give more than one. Sorry. Well, right now, I would say my favorite person to listen to is Liz Bohannan. She has a podcast called Fucking Up. And she's currently doing, she's fun to watch on social media anyway. She's just kind of a fun um personality.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

But she also currently on her podcast is doing a series on how to build community. And um, she's very specific and strategic and gives you real tips that you can actually try, take, and try to apply to your life. And um, I've always liked her, but um, I've really loved this current series that she's doing right now. Um, another person I've always loved, and anybody who knows me knows I love um is Annie F. Downs on the That Sounds Fun podcast. Um, she talks a lot about personality types with the Enneagram, and I I like that. But um I really like this idea that she has right now of a board of directors for your life. And so it means like having a different types of experts or friends that are, you know, using varying gifts to speak into your life, you know, somebody who might be able to help you with your finances, somebody who's helping you with your marriage, somebody who's helping you with your mental health, um, spiritual coaches, you know, different people. So she talks about like how do you have a lot of different players in your life, people in your life who are helping you to live the most well-rounded life that you can, and just um so you're just continually continually learning to be your best self.

unknown 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Um Jenny Allen also has a good book on communities. Um, I like Jess Connolly. There's a lot of people out there, but those are just a few of my favorites. So who are some of your favorites? You can tell we're friends because we follow the same people.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Right. And I don't the um Liz Bohannan and Annie F. Dance, I don't follow them as much through podcasts and social media and stuff like that. But um, I I think I've read everything that Annie has ever produced, um, even her Bible studies, 100 Days to Brave. Oh my goodness, that that hit right. I think we, I mean, we I ran so I ran a group through that study, I think right before COVID hit. And it was just so, so, so good. Less to do with community, more more to do with yourself, but but still so good. Um, I I yeah, and I love Jenny Allen and Jess Conley. I I follow them quite quite closely and often. I'm curious though, uh, what is when you were talking about Liz Bohannan, you mentioned that she gives like super practical tips. And I've never heard community building put in a way of systems and processes. And so I contend to be a systems and process person. So you said that, and I'm super curious for all of our like maybe more a little bit more systems-oriented versus um I guess just systems-oriented people. What are some of the specific things that she's and you don't have to run through her entire system? You can check out Liz Bohannon's um podcast if you guys want to learn that. But what are a couple things that she has said that has stuck like stuck out to you?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Well, a couple of my takeaways that I've, you know, from her is just one of the things ways is like to have a standing meeting with your people on the on the calendar. Because what happens often is we um we just go, we'll we'll get together. Let's let's try to get together.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

But um and then like six months go by and you never have that coffee with that person.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Yes, and we look at our schedules though, and it's really hard to have to find time in our in our schedule to get together. And so if you always have a standing meeting like the third Wednesday or it can be every week, it could be every other week, you know, but a standing meeting with your people that you are trying to build that personal connection with, then there's never a question about whether they're available. Everybody has it blocked off on their calendar. Um, everybody else is prioritizing that time together. You know, sometimes things happen, but like just that standing meeting. And um, and so like in my personal relationship, since I've heard that, I've been trying to make sure I schedule the next meeting with my friends.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

And so I am her friend. I can attest that she actually does this very, very well, and she has been an inspiration to me to do the same.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Good, good. Yes, and so that's that's one tip. The other part I really love about her, and I can't remember exactly what word she uses, but she talks about um talks about going into relationships um with where knowing that there's gonna be conflict sometimes, there's gonna be disappointment sometimes, but that those relationships need repair, and we need to like strive for repairing them instead of walking away from them.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

And as somebody who's been in the church and seen people walk away from lots of relationships and to not do the work of like repair, um, that I've been passionate about that because that walking away process is very painful for those left behind. And so um I just think we have to know that disappointment's gonna happen. Yeah, we have to know that conflict and butting of heads is gonna happen. Uh relationships are not easy. Um, we are we're just all so different somehow, right? Somehow all together, but we have to be willing to like do that hard work of repairing relationships. And so I love her wisdom and her her um the way she talks around the idea of repairing relationships.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

And so man, that's so good. That's so good. Yeah, you're right, because there it's so much easier just to walk away when things are hard and maybe start over somewhere new than it is to like stay stuck, not not stuck in a bad way, but like stick it out where you are at and and hopefully find resolution and repair to things. And and sometimes, sometimes that repair doesn't look the way that we hope for it too. But at least at that point, if you still choose to go, you can go maybe not as hurting as you were before, you know. But um, yeah, that's really good. I like I like that. I'll have to I'll have to check that part out. That's good, that's good stuff. It is good, and in in all of this, like we we recognize that so much of this is relational heavy because that is what connection is and that is what togetherness is. And some, like you said, somehow we are we're doing it. And and yet there there's this component of relationship that has to has to exist. And so I think of you know, I think sometimes we just assume that that you go from stranger to friend so quickly, and it's so not like that. But when we were kids, it was. Do you remember how easy it was to like make make friends as as kids? You'd like walk on the playground and right, you're what kindergarten, first grade, and you look at somebody and you're like, oh my goodness, your shoes are so cute, and then bam, you're like best friends from kindergarten to graduation and beyond over shoes. Like that's how easy it was when we were young. And now something something changes, and now we have to be so intentional with what does friendships and relationships look like and carving out the time for that. And it is hard because life is so full and so busy. And I love what you said about just having those standing appointments on your calendar. I think of when I put something on my calendar, and this is just for me that I do, I think of it as if that is not movable. Like once it lands, if it's theoretical and it's like, yeah, I'm gonna try for this. I don't put it on my calendar. Um, maybe on my to-do list that may or may not get done. But if it is something on my calendar, for me, that is just the same as if I were to have a doctor's appointment or um some type of an appointment that I have with some super powerful person that you would never move it for, right? And so pending like a true emergency, or usually that's my kids needing something, or I mean, or my husband, but that like emergencies with your spouse don't come up all that often. Um I I just don't usually push those personal appointments anymore because of the value that it provides.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

So it communicates that they're important. Yeah. And if you're always backing out or changing the appointment, they are gonna feel like they're not important. And then they're gonna feel that disappointment and then they're gonna not know whether they can trust the connection. And so, yeah, showing up is just huge.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

And I think of too, like from a from a trauma perspective, okay. I I'll try not to get too soapboxy here, but but like we've all been through things in our life, and so any like change is actually really hard for most people, even if it's little bits of change. And so when we don't take the time to communicate, you are important to me by keeping that appointment, we're inadvertently revalidating their lack of worthiness that so many people already feel like, oh, well, I'm just not important enough for them to hang out with me. And we're we're reinforcing those underlying ideas that they've been building over their entire lives. And so instead of repairing some of that relational damage by being intentional in relationship with them, we're actually causing more relational hurt. Um, and you don't really think about that when you cancel a coffee date with a friend, and yet if you do that over and over and over again, it does start to communicate something different to that person.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Yeah. Even if it's unintentional for sure, but yeah, yeah, still, yeah, and things come up, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Life is life is hard and it is long and it is it's kind of messy. So, um, but I think being intentional with even the way you communicate with your friends is an important. Okay, so then as as we think about like friendships and relationships, the other question that comes to mind is, and I know we could actually probably spend a whole episode on this, so we're not gonna go super deep right now because I do actually think that this would be something really good to talk about more in depth. But what makes somebody a good friend? Like what makes somebody a good friend? You I think you even more than me, although I think we see we see people come in with similar questions and concerns into our offices, and yet they're coming at it from like really different perspectives. And so I think you have kind of a unique perspective on relationships and friendships from especially from your mental health standpoint. And so as you're navigating relationships with people, how do you help them recognize like who is a like who's a good friend? What makes a good friend?

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Yeah. Um, well, one of the the things I learned from a book once was just that we need lots of different types of friends, right? Um, sometimes we need spiritual guides, sometimes we need funny friends, sometimes we need uh dependable people that are gonna show up and like bring us a meal when we're sick. You know, we just need friends who challenge us to grow, you know. Um, and so I think too often we have this idea that we are we need a friend that we get along with 100% of the time, that that that we're just exactly like, that that they hold the same values as us, they have the same personality type as us. And um, let me tell you, your life will be very bland and dressed the same as we're currently dressed like twins today. We totally are, totally by accident. Yeah, and so I read it in book. I think it was a pastor's wife, actually, that um it was Rick Warren's wife. Um can't I think her name's I don't remember her first name, sorry, but it was Rick Warren's wife. She wrote a book, and I just remember her talking about different kinds of friends, pulling in lots of different friends in your life. And I'm like, so when I say think of a good friend, the word good can hold so much different meaning, right? And because different people are gonna um contribute different things into your life and help fill you up in different ways. Um, one thing though, that when I think about like what have I felt like I have missed, been missing, or that I wish I had, was a friend that just shows up when we need to be seen or need help. Like um often we feel like we're on this journey and we have to do the hard work of asking for help, or we have to be the one that's always taken the initiative, right? Which I mean, really that's how we get what we want in life is to do those things. But um, a good friend is one of those people that maybe sees that you're struggling and asks you about it, or sees that you need something and um just goes and gets it, you know, and takes care of those needs. And so um, we all want more of those kind of people in your life.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

That's kind of that underlying kind of need that we all we all kind of have.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

And I don't know if we like to admit it out loud, but we all kind of do need that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

Um yeah, yeah, I think that makes me think of actually so going back to the the story in Mark about the paralyzed man. The interesting thing in that story is we actually never hear from the paralyzed man. It so we don't actually know if he asked his friends to get him to Jesus or if they just saw that he needed healing and they believed enough that if they got him there, he would get it. And so, so we don't actually know. We don't know if he asked for that help or if they just saw that need and was like, you know what, buddy, we're taking you. We're gonna take you to Jesus and He's he's gonna meet you there. And so I love that you that you mentioned that is just being aware of what other people are going through and what they might need. And that is so hard in our in our busyness of our everyday life. Um, and I think that in order to see other people, we actually have to create the space to see them because we can get so busy and so bogged down with everything that we are doing that it becomes actually really challenging. I mean, all I can see are my needs sometimes, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:10

I'm like, why is there somebody showing up to help me?

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Um, and so it's even harder then to see the needs of a friend. Sure. Because we're already so busy, and so we have to create margin and space in our lives for that, you know, for that to happen. I also think of, you know, a a good friend um is a friend who doesn't need details that they just I love that like I yeah, you know, that that that you you know, I like to think that I'm the type of friend, Erica, that that if you were struggling with something, and let's say you can't even express what that is, but if you just reach out and you're like Miranda, I just need help, or I need I need you to pray for me right now. I don't have to sit there and farm for information from you. I don't have to be like, oh my gosh, yes, absolutely, but tell me what's happening, right? Like it it can be as easy as absolutely yes, I'm coming over right now, or I'm praying for you right now. Like, we don't have to know the details of what is going on. You'll share those when you're ready. Um, but I think that's what makes a good friend too, is somebody who's willing to just meet you there without needing a lot of understanding of why they're going in the first place. Like, I don't I don't need to justify that I'm gonna drop everything to go be with a friend in need. Um, I'm just gonna go do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah. I don't know that many of us know how to be that friend very often. Yeah. Or that we're very good at it yet.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

But somehow together, yes, on this journey, we hope that we can learn and we can start practicing. And it takes practice, and that's and that's okay. Um, and just to see that it's an area of growth for all of us, or room we have room for growth.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

And then when you when we're with our friends, right, we do actually like to have fun together. Like this is the poor and this is being with them, and and that is so important because again, we're gonna go through seasons of of highs and lows in our life, and so we need the support people in in our life too. Um, but so much of connection has to do with shared interests to some degree. And what are what are some of the things, or maybe one of the key things that you look for in a friend beyond like character capacity? But when you're I mean, I don't want to say interviewing for friendships, because that sounds weird, but it's not so easy as I like your shirt anymore. So that's true. We do kind of fix them. We kind of like date date our friends a little, see if we're gonna be compatible for that friendship. Um, so what are some of the things that you look for when you are kind of just starting out that connection or relationship with somebody in your you are like evaluating and kind of asking yourself, like, could I see myself in a friendship relationship with this person? Is this gonna be someone that I'm gonna invite kind of into that inner circle of my life?

SPEAKER_01 41:55

So I I had two ideas when you when I saw that question, and I'm like, okay, the first one is a common passion and love for Jesus. I um sometimes can be intense when it comes to this passion that I have for growing in my love for Jesus and and uh bringing people along on that. Um and so if you can't handle that intensity, that that passion, I'm we're probably not gonna be the best of friends. But if you are striving to get better in um in your walk journey with Jesus, um and it really is a journey, nobody's great at it, but if you're not trying very hard, it's probably gonna be hard for us to be best friends. Not saying that we can't be somewhat friends, you know, work friends or acquaintances and stuff. But I I like I like to pursue Jesus with my whole heart. And so I hope hope that my friends would also feel the same. The second thing is I like to laugh. Yes, I was happy you would say that much. And so I love going to comedy shows, I like to laugh really loud, I like to share funny videos, I like to do all that. And so if if somebody's gonna hang with me, they're gonna probably have to be willing to laugh and to get jokes, you know, like yes, and maybe have a similar sense of uh humor with me. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

So how about you? I love those. I love that so much. I was so hoping that you would say the laughter one. I was like, if she does not say that, I'm calling her out because laughter is so much fun.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Yeah, I I love um, I think for me, in in a friend, definitely we're we're gonna have to enjoy life. Um, it is far too short to be super serious all the time. And in in ministry and chaplaincy work, and as a pastor and counselor, even like we see a lot of serious things. And so, like, I I do want the space to be able to kind of let my hair down a little bit, if you will. That's kind of an old saying, I guess. But but to let let my hair down a little bit and and just enjoy life without really having, I don't want. Say filter myself, um, because I'm not talking about like filtering in appropriate things, but just like without having to think so hard about what I'm gonna say or what I'm gonna do and just kind of fully be myself, or if you're in the mood to be quiet, it's okay that you're quiet, or if you're in the mood to be goofy, that you can be goofy, yeah. Yeah, and and have somebody who's gonna meet me in that space and understand when I when I need to shift out of that, but but definitely enjoy enjoying life is a huge part of it. I'm a huge, well, I don't know that I'm a foodie because I'm not picky about food, but I love like trying new places. So for me, it's not uncommon to invite people out to restaurants or to try something, I wouldn't even say new because I'm really not that adventurous. I'm making myself sound super awesome right now. I'm really not, but I do have my favorites, and so I want to share my favorite things with people. And so I really do love um, I love doing that. And then I do I do love being able to talk. Like, like you said, I want somebody who's gonna be like I'm intense. I read a lot of things and I'm passionate about a lot of things, Jesus being one of them. And so I do want somebody who's gonna be able to not match me in it necessarily, but at least meet me in it and and maybe ask questions about the things that I'm learning or experiencing, or um be willing to put up with my monologues when I'm teaching them about something that I've learned or know. And uh yeah, I think just again, that's that space to be wholly who we are without having to worry about the parameters from like ministry and and walking with people in a more intentional way where we can just kind of be ourselves, if that makes sense. Yeah, it definitely makes sense. It's not that we're not vulnerable with people, right? Like and in authentic and and truly who we are. Um, but I do think again, those micro walls pop up when we are in more of our ministry settings, whether that's inside the church or in in your office with clients. Like there's there are boundaries that exist in those types of relationships. And so um having a space that's not boundaryless, but kind of almost is super important. But for sure. Yeah, and I think I think for for you guys as listeners, it's important for you to know what is important to you, uh, so that as you are dating friends, you can you can recognize and be like, oh, I really, I do actually really, I really love this about this person, and I actually want more of that. And so you'll start to when you're practicing awareness, you will start to recognize the things that you were naturally drawn to and those types of personalities that you are drawn to. I remember though, with my kids, and you said something earlier, Erica, about like different types of people in your life, and I think that's really important too, because I think we could we could easily surround ourselves with the same type of friend. And I remember with with my kids when they were little and they would struggle with, well, I don't want to invite everybody to this movie, especially so and so, because they talk through movies. Or I want to go to the skate park, but I feel bad not inviting this friend, but they don't even like skating. And so we would have conversations where it's it where we would talk about it's okay to have friends who have different interests in you. And and to invite a friend to go skating when they hate skating is actually gonna make skating miserable for you and your other friends. And so it's okay that you don't invite, even though they're one of your best friends, it's okay that you don't invite them to go skating because it's not gonna be good for them, it's not gonna be good for you, it's not gonna be good for the other people. Same thing with movies, right? And so it is important to know, engage. Like one of my favorite restaurants is a Mexican restaurant. If my friend hates Mexican food, that's not gonna be the place I invite you to go to dinner with me because you're not gonna like it. Yeah, and then it's gonna be miserable for both of us.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Yeah, or if you have a serious friend, like maybe you're more challenging, like they're not maybe they're not a challenging, but they're a challenger kind of personality, maybe. Um, and you've had a really long week at work, they're probably not who you want to hang out with on Friday night when you're already mentally and emotionally exhausted, right? Because you won't have the capacity to like engage with them in a conversation, but you want to hang out with your friend who makes you laugh, yeah, in those settings. And so it's it's definitely good to have a bunch of different types of friends.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's that's super important. Yeah. And you learn, you learn what that looks like, but you only learn that if you actually engage in and around and try different people, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:37

You know, stick with the one person or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

And I think that's the that's also the hard part because then you're like, well, I'm supposed to have 12 best friends.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Not asking you to have 12. Start barely have time for one. Start with one, start with one, yes, but start with one, right? Start somewhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

You don't have to go like from zero to a hundred all at the same time, it's it's starting small and investing purposefully in those people.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

And in our safest relationships, we know that it's okay for our friends to have other friends, yeah, right. And so like I so good, and even like when we're at church and Miranda is busy doing something else, talking to someone else, investing in a relationship with someone else. I can be happy for her to have that moment and to do her thing. And so, and then I don't have that need to like follow her around and try to get her attention, you know. We have to have we have to be whole people on our own so that we can uh engage in a healthy way with our friends and and but support them in their journey. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

All right, as we as we wrap up our episode today, Erica, where in your life do you need a little bit more togetherness? That wasn't on your question. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Well, one of my best friends is moving away to Utah. It's me. Yeah, it's Miranda. And so um, I guess like I'm going to have to find people to hang out with when I won't be, would have hang out, hung out with Miranda. But um, so maybe uh finding some new some more connections to invest in. Um I've started off slow because personal, you're when you're trying to set up a monthly meeting or something with with people, you can only do that with so many people. And so like I find that my time with my women friends is just as um just as powerful and uh impactful as even time alone with my husband, which don't tell him I said that. I love him, but you know totally gonna listen. No, but I love I love time with my girlfriends, and so I guess um I just need to keep prioritizing that, and that would be where I'd feel more yeah, more um need for togetherness. Yeah. How about you?

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Oh man, well, definitely in thinking of what does this look like being removed from all of my togetherness? Um so Erica mentioned I'm I'm moving to Utah, so we'll only get to be in the same room together for a few of these episodes before I go remote. Uh and so it's gonna look really different being in a place and having to practice this in real time with people that I I don't know at all. Uh Nate and I were joking the other night. I was like, do we have to become people who do things? Like join hobby groups, and what if we really like the hobby, but we don't like the people? And and uh so we just had a kind of a good while he was laughing, I was laughing crying um because it this is something that is so near and dear to my heart, and it's something that I've tried to be really intentional in, that's just like you have in growing in over the last years. And so um looking at what does togetherness look like in a completely new environment where I I am coming in kind of kind of blind and don't know. I have a couple people there that I know, but I'm not super connected with. And so what does it look like to start to foster um relationships in a brand new place? And some of you who are listening might be in that brand new space, so we get to journey that journey that out together.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I was just thinking that it's a really great opportunity to walk with our listeners through um life transition, right? And you'll learn, learn alongside them and um maybe come up with some strategies on how they can try making new connections or finding yeah, find new friend groups and things.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

So yeah, it'll be it'll be an adventure. I think I'm gonna have to reread uh Jenny Allen's book, Find Your People. Yeah, because it's been a while since I've read that one. Um, and it was super good the first time. And so I think I'm gonna have to revisit that a little bit uh in a new place with with people that I'm not already friends with. Yeah, for sure. So all right. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us today. And we look forward to to chatting with you again soon. Yes, thank you for being here. Thanks for spending time with us today. If this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone you want to help feel a little less alone. And as you go into your week, ask yourself where in my life do I need togetherness right now? And until next time, we are somehow together.