The Million Dollar Question

What does it actually mean to have social intelligence and why does it matter so much in our relationships, churches, and everyday lives?

In this episode of Somehow Together, Miranda and Erica have an honest, thoughtful, and sometimes funny conversation about social intelligence: the ability to understand people, navigate social dynamics, and help others feel seen, valued, and safe. Together they explore the difference between emotional intelligence and social intelligence, how our upbringing shapes the way we relate to people, and why healthy relationships require intentionality, curiosity, and growth.

From awkward small talk and church lobby interactions to leadership, conflict, listening skills, and making people feel important, this conversation is full of practical insight and vulnerable reflection. They also discuss lessons from Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People, how Jesus modeled relational wisdom, and why encouragement often creates more lasting change than criticism.

Whether you naturally connect with people or constantly feel awkward in social spaces, this episode is a reminder that social intelligence is something we can all learn, practice, and grow in — somehow, together.

Book - "Managing Leadership Anxiety" - Steve Cuss

Book - "How to Win Friends and Influence People" - Dale Carnegie

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to the Somehow Together podcast, where we explore faith, connection, and everything that holds us together. I'm Erica. And I'm Miranda. Life is messy. And relationships are messy. But we weren't meant to do this life alone.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

And God, He is still working in the middle of it all.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

So we're still showing up somehow together. Hi, welcome back to the Somehow Together podcast. I'm Erica, in case you don't know my voice yet, and I'm here together with my friend Miranda, and we are going to talk about the subject of social intelligence. On our first podcast, Miranda mentioned this concept of social intelligence. And as a counselor, I've heard of emotional intelligence a whole lot, but I hadn't really thought about social intelligence. And so I wanted to look into it a little bit. And I've done some research. And so I thought we would share and kind of discuss and dialogue about social intelligence. Miranda, do you have any thoughts about what it means? What is social intelligence? What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, so social intelligence is actually a newer phrase that I recently heard. I have um experienced ideas around social intelligence before without it being labeled social intelligence. And so one of the ways that I've kind of come to understand social intelligence is the ability to recognize and understand the way that people act and engage within social settings. And that is the way that you personally approach social settings and the ability to see how other people interact and engage, engage within those social settings as well. And so that's kind of the briefest way. The definition of social intelligence is the ability to understand one's own and others' actions. Social intelligence is learned and it develops from experience with people and from learning from successes and failures in social settings. And so it really is a pretty important skill that helps people succeed in all aspects of their life. So it's, I think it's an emerging term that's starting to kind of flourish a little bit better. Most people are gonna, like you said, have a little bit more understanding about emotional intelligence. And so you do a lot of work in that field. So what's the difference? What's the difference between emotional intelligence and social intelligence?

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Well, emotional intelligence is like focusing on understanding your own emotions and feelings, right? And the feelings and emotions of someone else. While social intelligence is learning to navigate social situations and interactions and understanding social dynamics.

unknown 2:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

And I'm assuming that social intelligence is interpersonal between a couple of people and also social in regards to like the big picture and the global, the global picture, um, community-wide picture. I've just been thinking about it a whole lot. And I just I know we could only like start touching the surface of this subject, but I still think it'd be kind of fun, especially when it comes to thinking about how social intelligence um is important in the church. And so let's let's dive in. So um since we know that social intelligence is learned, do you have someone that you feel like was a really good model for you, somebody that modeled social skills or taught you how to get along with people when you while you were growing up?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Um no, not really. Okay. I think I say this a lot to people as I wish somebody would have taught me how to be a friend. And I think we touched on that a little bit in our in our first episode, but uh I don't know that I had somebody strong in a social setting that taught me really how to relate and be able to read people and read social situations well. I think most of the learned experience came from failure or successes. And so being in those spaces and being like, oh, I probably shouldn't say that, or oh, when I say that, they react this way. And that's that's really good and encouraging. And so I don't think I had really one person. And then when you think about the dynamic growing up, you're especially I think of teenage years, and we're just a bunch of teenagers doing life together. And so the the unhealthy things I bring into relationships, they do. And so then you see each other model this kind of unhealthy way of relating to some degree. And so again, it's so I think for me, it was mostly through trial and error and being in spaces and recognizing, oh, that didn't land well, or oh, they just kind of like cringed, or you know, those micro movements or those subtle things that people give you when you're tossing something into a new social circle.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Well, what's really great is that you can even pick up on that because some of us struggle to pick up on those micro um, you know, the subtle nuances of of a relationship dynamic. And um, and so I feel like you have really great social intelligence. And so the fact that you don't feel like you had a lot of role models, you must have um paid attention to those learning opportunities really well.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

So I'm gonna I'm gonna call that a thank you for like thank you to my trauma of childhood that made me be yeah um hyper aware of other people to eliminate as much harm for myself as possible. So I think that probably really did play a part in that to be able to read other people.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, yeah. Um growing up, I had parents, both of them, who were neither one firstborn children. They're both um middle children, and they both had this uh approach to life that we want to make it fun and it's gonna be a good time. So um, my my parents both we had a lot of people in our home. We had a lot of parties, we had a lot of game nights, um, we had time with extended family, we had time with friends from church. Um, growing up, I just had people around me a lot. And I watched my parents interact with people all the time. And um my dad is this farmer um in a small town who walks into any restaurant and knows people, right? And they all like smile at him and say, Oh, there's Steve here, you know, and they're happy to see him. And um, in fact, I found this uh newspaper article recently um that was about my dad and his farm. Like, I don't know if he's purchased land, and it said, if Steve Caves isn't known among his friends as smiling Steve, he ought to be, you know, because my dad just always walked into places with a smile and he just knows how to make people feel cared about and um and my mom was always a lot of fun, she just liked to laugh. I remember them always having a good time, and so um and they just had a lot of friends, and so that comes from yeah, um good social intelligence, right? And I don't necessarily know that I've ever thought about breaking down their behaviors to figure out what I learned from them, yeah. But overall, I know that my way of interacting with people is similar to how they do, and I I picked it picked it up. So anyway, why do you think social intelligence matters? And why does it matter when we're trying to build a community within a church?

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Oh man, I think first off, it just matters. I think that there is a lot of hurt that is caused by people when we aren't aware of the things that we are saying and the things that we are doing and the way that those things impact other people. And so, more than the feelings that we have around that, because that would be emotional intelligence, it's the way that we approach people and help them, help them to know that they are seen and that they are cared for and that they are valued. And so when when when we come into those spaces and places and we don't recognize that for others, we actually unintentionally create unsafe places for people inside the church. And so instead of having uplifting and encouraging interactions, we tend to hurt others, I think a little bit more. And that creates conflict that like ruffles right under the surface, where it's like, oh, I don't, I don't know what's wrong, but I know something's wrong. Right. And so I think congregationally and community-wise, there's there's this layer that social intelligence plays to where you you move into a space just like anything else, and it's not all about me, it's also about the other people. And when we start to live our lives not just for ourselves, but we start living them with other people in mind, it really does change the way that we interact and engage with others. Um I think that another piece of that is that people when when we lack awareness as a community or as a group of people, other people start to feel unseen or unvalued. And I think that's where a lot of quiet quitting hits the church level, is we're not aware enough of the people kind of on the fringes of our own social circles. And so we don't open ourselves up enough to invite more people in. And so then they don't feel that same sense of connection that they see happening around them, and then they just leave and we don't know why. Sure, that makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Or we don't even notice, right? Sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And and I think too, the another, well, not too, but in addition to that, the when it comes to our like how social intelligence impacts us spiritually, because I do think that that's a piece of it as well, is when like because discipleship is so heavily relational without healthy interactions and without being aware of how we show up in social spaces, people don't feel safe enough to be honest. They don't open up and become vulnerable. And so their growth starts to stagnate and it stays at almost a more surface level because um they don't know how to safely go deeper with the people around them because there's not this sense of security and safety within that, within that group or within that conversation, or within that that I say space a lot, but within that space. And so you can't grow people deeply if you if you can't encourage this environment where relationship flourishes and that that happens through being aware of others as well as yourself.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

So also um we have to have social intelligence um when we encounter people that come in for the first time, right? So they might um not necessarily be integrated yet into the body, but they we want them to know that it that it's a good place to spend time and to hang out so that we can have the chance to tell them about Jesus and help them grow in their faith. But if we we come across as not noticing, not listening, um, judgmental, um, those those problematic behaviors can drive someone away and keep or even you know keep them from from coming back a second time. And so yeah, it's it's it's from the time they enter our doors, yeah, um, until until they leave the church, you know, at the end of their life, hopefully social intelligence matters and how we treat each other matters. And um, and we just need to be aware and keep trying to grow in that area.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah, and it's and it's so hard because when you're in a a church family, a church body for so long, and you become connected into that, it becomes a lot harder to see outside of just the group that you're a part of. And so it takes a lot of intentionality to say, you know what, when I show up this week, I'm my friends, like we're gonna get together outside the church, we're gonna, we're gonna talk later, or we're probably gonna text through the message, you know, like whatever. We're gonna have those points of connections. And so when I'm here today, when I'm here this week on Sunday, I'm gonna make it a point to not like cluster up with the people that I'm closest with. And I'm actually gonna make it a point to approach somebody that maybe I don't know as well, or a new face that I've never seen before, or, you know, something intentional to help that person be seen and know that they have value and that we are so glad and so grateful that they're that they're joining our church community that morning. But it takes this level of intentionality that's really hard because we want to engage with our friends as well. But it's yeah, more I don't know, I just feel like it's bigger than that.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

I think it is. And um, we're gonna get into it a little in a little bit, like some of those specific things that we can do that helps a person walking in for the first time feel loved and cared for. And what you're saying sounds hard and it sounds um complicated, but it's not always you know, there's like some very simple things we can do to show that we care and we we notice them coming in. So and show them that we want them to be here and included. So yeah. Um, what are some of the problems though that we see come about, especially in the church, when people don't practice, you know, good social skills or good people skills?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Oh, I mean conflict, right? Like there's gonna be conflict even in the healthiest of relationships, but when we don't practice uh good social skills or people skills, or we're not working to actively improve in those areas, I think conflict is the the number one. I think um gossiping happens more because you are unhappy and so you want to share that with other people. And so we there's a fine line between venting to somebody else and gossiping about a situation or about something that you've experienced. And so I think that that happens, and then that plants a lot of other like seeds that go out that cultivate more conflict, and and so I think that is a big problem. I think that when we're not clear in our communication from a leadership standpoint, so I'm gonna put on my leadership hat right now. And when we're not clear in the way that we communicate with others, and um I think that it creates a sense of instability within the organizational structure as a whole. And so when we don't practice good people skills, it can create this underlying sense from other people of like they don't know what's wrong. I kind of said that earlier, right? Like we don't really know what's wrong, but we know there's something wrong. And so when the leaders aren't practicing good um social intelligence, that filters down into their leadership teams, which then filters down into the people of the church. And so while you can never really put your finger on it, there's this, there's this thing that that doesn't that doesn't that doesn't seem to fit what we say. And so I think that can be a problem. And so um, yeah, I just I think that it's again one of those things. I read there's this book, we'll we'll link it down below, but it's called Managing Leadership Anxiety by Steve Cuss. And I think that's the first time I started hearing this idea of being more aware of other people in spaces, just as if you are aware of yourself. And so super great book. I won't go into all of the nuts and bolts about it, but um he never used the phrase social intelligence, but now I'm like, oh, I think that's what he was talking about. And so when we as leaders can manage our own internal systems that we are struggling with, it gives us the ability to recognize what is going on outside of us. And so when leaders practice good social intelligence, it creates and opens up this space for other people to do the same. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Yeah, that's great. Um yeah, as you were talking, I'm like that that um the things I've seen over the years include like being easily offended, right? Yeah, taking offense to things, um uh or being annoyed as somebody taking your role or um maybe doing something that you wouldn't do. Um and we instead of thinking about how we want to empower them to be able to do their ministry, we're thinking about how it impacts us instead. And so that that kind of selfish perspective of what is the church providing me instead of what is the church here to do for that other person, or what is the church trying to um provide for um that whole group over there, even, you know, where my group, I'm not even interested in that. Why are we putting resources into that? That kind of um tension can sometimes be a problem. And it's it's often an indicator of like maybe we need to grow in that social intelligence area.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Um well, and I think too that when when we struggle with social intelligence, like you were just saying, that challenge part of let's like let's maybe grow in that area, it becomes more of a judgment and it becomes more punitive for people as opposed to an opportunity to improve or grow in that way when there's not a strong sense of social intelligence at play.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Yeah. Well, and just to be honest, you and I know that we're not perfect at it, right? So we we're we are assuming that we are taking everything as a pot from a posture of wanting to grow and get better and practice all of these things alongside everybody else around. And so um, yeah, we do not have it all together. No, we don't. Um, so yes, I get that. That need to grow that we but we wanted to take it from a posture of learning instead. One of the areas I've seen people struggle with social skills is sometimes in small group settings where one person will talk a lot and dominate the whole conversation, and where you've are in a conversation with someone who wants to talk but will not listen and not practice listening. And so those are just some basic, I mean, I'm sure it's not just in the church, it's probably everywhere, but like um people really struggle to listen, and part of that's because of their own needs, and that sometimes that anxiety that you were talking about, that that unmet anxiety the unmanaged anxiety that they are struggling with, and so um they end up not listening well, and uh then it kind of changes shifts the dynamic in the in the group or in the relationship. So do you feel like I guess this will go back to what we were just talking about, do you feel like social intelligence comes easily for you? And or do you do you feel like there's um areas of weaknesses that you wish you could improve on and that you'd be willing to share?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I yeah, I think that it comes easier for me today than it did yesterday. And it came easier for me yesterday than it did the day before. Uh, but all jokes aside, I think that it became easier the more I I understood the power of active listening and the the skill of being curious. And we'll get into a little bit more of that later. Uh, but over the years, as I've really stepped in and practiced those things, I think it has become much easier for me to move into spaces and do that. Reading people has always been easy for me, like I mentioned earlier. And so that hasn't been, that's always been something that I've been aware of. I just never knew what to do with it. And so that's where that a lot more of that trial and error came from. Uh, weakness that I'd be willing to share. I'm actually, I don't like small talk. So for me, moving into spaces is actually really hard because people see me as a like people person. I'm I'm your brand is a people person, and I am, but I'm a people person. And so moving into spaces where the expectation for conversation is very low and it's very minimal, and it's very surface level, and all of those things are are great and they're needed, and there's a place for those. I like to dive deep. And so I find myself super awkward and super. Uncomfortable when it comes to those small talk pieces. And so I think that is something that I would like to cultivate a little bit more is how to how to really engage in healthy small talk situations with people where I don't come across as awkward or maybe diving in too deep too fast with people because that's kind of what I tend to do. And I will say I'll be like, you don't have to answer this question. I'm just curious. And then I just go for it. Um, but I I would like to cultivate and not in like the the get out, you know, like get out of the conversation fast way of like just hey, how are you doing? No, I'm great. Okay, great, what great weather. Not that kind of small talk, but like like true, just like we only have a couple minutes, let's let's chat well. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense, but I think that is something that I'm not really.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

I'd love to know. I would love to know if that's possible because the lobby is not my favorite place, you know, like when you're just in the church lobby and you're like asking someone and you're just like, hey, how's it going? You know, and or you have like just a few seconds because you want to pause and talk to them, but you don't really know what to talk about. And um I know we can't dive deep, but it's good to see you, you know. Yes, exactly, exactly. It is I would love to know if there's like some skills that we can learn around small talk, quick conversations, and get better at it.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

That would be because I do think that's a part of social intelligence too, right? Like we can sit here and pretend that it's all the deep stuff and all the all the good, you know, good quote unquote conversations that we have with people, but but it starts in the lobbies, right? It starts at the doors, it starts in those first awkward small group interactions and as you're trying to put a group of strangers together to dive into God's word. Like it exists, it it's in the grocery store aisles and at the shopping malls when you run into somebody like it truly does exist. And I just I find myself super awkward and super uncomfortable. And um, so that's my vulnerable moment of the day is I don't like small talk. Not I don't like it, I don't know how to do it well.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah, yeah. I agree. That would that would be one of my areas of weakness as well. Um, unlike you, I am not good at um picking up on subtle cues. I take things at face value and I take people at their word, and I don't necessarily pick up on those extras. And so sometimes that's a problem, um, especially when you're a counselor, which I am. Um and I'm getting better at it, but um I really I that's not an area that comes easily to me. Um also I can sometimes be really direct. I just want to get to the point and just take care of business. And I don't know that everybody always appreciates that as well. So I know that's kind of just some an area, some areas where I struggle or want to learn and um develop new skills around, you know, picking up on cues well and paying attention to what might be underlying their their comments or their behaviors, and um, and then also um sometimes wording things in a more subtle way so that that maybe the listener will hear things better. So we're lucky because like we've been talking about, social intelligence can be learned. Yes, crazy yes, and it can be practiced. Yeah. So when I looked up where do we learn about social intelligence, it was hard because there wasn't a whole lot out there that that I found. Um I but I did find one of the leading books on social intelligence, and I don't think they actually even use that phrase, was Dale Carnegie's book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, which was written in 1936. Imagine this isn't an old, a new idea after all. It's not a new idea. So um the cover of that book looked so boring. And I know that Jason's brought it home before, so I'd seen it before, but I was like, that looks so boring. I don't even want to read it. But I decided to listen to it um on the library app, and it was so good, and it was so many different stories and examples of people influencing other people in positive ways. And so I am I just I loved it. And so he he gives very specific strategies, and so I thought we could talk through some of those things, but I did want to share one story he talked about. He talked about the story of Charles Schwab, which you've probably heard that name before. Well, Charles Schwab was paid one million dollars per year in the steel industry at the same time that others were making between 400 and $5,000 a year. That's insane. I know. So $1 million versus let's say $5,000. And it's like you ask, what makes him worth so much more than everyone else? And it wasn't his skills in steel production, but it was his ability to influence people. And when people describe what he did, they say he knew how to make people feel important. I love that. He was able to motivate a lot of people to work together toward a common goal, which is justified his $1 million salary. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Some of his key strategies included these things. He used positive reinforcement and not criticism. You know, we all try to, especially as parents, we know, like tell our kids what they're doing wrong, right? Or people will often tell leadership, church leadership what they're doing wrong. And um, pastors sometimes try to motivate people by pointing out what they're doing wrong. And that criticism doesn't actually motivate change. And so I think I think just think that's an interesting fact.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

He picked up Do you know that that do you know that that's actually a skill that not a skill, but a concept that works from a very young age? Sure. So when I was working in early childhood education, it was one of the ways that I would teach my teachers to help correct bad behavior in the classroom as long as it wasn't dangerous behavior, was to instead of constantly calling out the kid who was being naughty, it was to reward the kids who were doing well. And so if it was time to come to circle time and you know, Johnny's off over doing jumping jacks in the corner, as soon as Mary sits down, it's Mary, I love the way that you're sitting at the carpet waiting for the story. Thank you so much. And then, you know, Jenny would sit down and Jenny, I'm so excited. Thank you so much for joining us for circle time. I'm so glad that you're here. And then, you know, Billy would sit down and it'd be Billy, you came to circle time. We're so glad. And then lo and behold, Johnny would make his way over to circle time and he wouldn't be bouncing around the classroom. And so that's actually something that is taught in child development from a like circles in a very young age. Well, and it's not a new concept.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

No. And when you would want them to change their behavior, you point out what they're doing well, right? And you celebrate what they're doing well, not necessarily what they're doing wrong. Yep. Yeah. And it's so we can learn from Charles that way. Um, the other thing he's hit one of his other strategies was that he made people feel seen and valued by looking for what they were doing right, which is just exactly what you were saying. Yeah. He also influenced people through relationships, not through authority. That's so he relied on making connections with people. He got to know them. He got to know what they were good at. He got to put people in their places where they're gif gifted, you know, and like um and encourage them when they were going through a hard time. So that kind of connection. And he also created emotional energy in the workplace. His positivity generated enthusiasm. And so you go, huh, this guy has got it going on. He's got great social intelligence, so we can learn a lot from him. So they said that he learned to turn getting work out of people into unlocking the potential within people. Do you think it can help people perform better when they feel seen? Oh, 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

I mean, I don't actually think any of us would disagree with that question or with that statement. When people feel seen, there is a deeper sense of belonging. And so, I mean, I've I've heard it, I've heard it said before that people don't quit jobs, they quit leaders or they quit managers. And so when you cultivate the sense of being seen and you, there's a deeper connection to the employment or the leader or the mission, right? Like I think of a church, it's not, we don't want people to be connected to us as leaders. We want people to be connected to the mission and vision that God has on their life and in the world around them. And so when people feel seen and valued and um they cultivate this deeper sense of belonging, not just with the church, but with God as well. And that opens up just so many more avenues. They perform, I don't want to say perform because church shouldn't be a performance, but maybe in employment you perform better. Um, because you're not afraid of getting yelled at, you're not afraid of getting fired, you're there's um a little bit of safety and failure to some degree. And you know that the person who is in charge of you is actually for you and not just in charge of you.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

I love that. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Yes, I love that. So why do you think it's so much easier for leaders to criticize instead of encourage? Why do we take the negative approach instead of the positive one? If we know positive works, I think it's easier, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Like, which is really sad to say, but I think that when we this is gonna tie into emotional intelligence, I think just a little bit. Sure. Because when we are frustrated or when we are angry, those are stronger emotions that come out. And when we are not practicing emotional intelligence to be aware enough about where those emotions are coming from, we become more reactive to them. And so when we are frustrated or upset with somebody and that that feeling emerges, it is easier to lash out in that moment of criticism or a correction than it is to respond out of a place of let me, let's talk about what just happened. Here's where I know your strengths are. And so I it kind of confuses me a little bit that this is what just occurred because I've never seen that from you before. You're you're a strong employee or employee, or you're a really great Bible study leader and you relate so well with people. And so what was going on inside that prompted this type of reaction or response from you? Like that is very different than you can't talk to people like that, right? Like so that's where I think social intelligence and emotional intelligence overlaps because it's that emotion that drives that reaction and response. But when we're willing to work through the emotional piece to get to a better response, then we become more engaged with the encouragement and less with the criticism. And in that encouragement, we can still challenge people to do things differently.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Um and our brains are wired to look for problems, right? Yeah. They, I mean, it's just how our brains are wired. And so we our brains usually go to the negative. Um unless we really work hard and retrain them, which I talk about in counseling a lot. But it's like, yes, but they just go to the negative, they go look for the problem. We want to fix things. And so, um, and that's just part of our human how we're wired.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

How God I think we see it, yeah. I think we see it in reviews too, right? Like, if I have a bad experience with a restaurant, I'm gonna go tell everybody like, don't eat there, I got sick, or their chicken was awful, or their kitchen was disgusting. Like, whatever it is, whatever I'm unhappy with, I'm way more likely to spread that. And I think we all are more likely to spread that than we are the positive. Like, I can't remember, okay, other than maybe recently, two times, but because it was a very good eating experience. And I tend to really like food. Uh, but when you have a pleasant experience, my first thought is not like, oh, I have to tell my friends that this restaurant was really good, or they need to go try this, or um, the checkout person at the shoe store was amazing, that she fitted me with the perfect shoe, or like that's not where our mind goes. But as soon as we have a negative experience somewhere, the first thing we think of is, oh my gosh, I have to tell somebody how horrible this was.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Warn everybody, tell everybody, right? Yes, yes. So we are wired for the negative. I mean, and so it takes a lot of extra effort to slow down and to think about the positive, right? Or to think about the strengths and to um reword what we want to say in a way that helps promote their dignity and their self-worth and to even slow down and view it as this is a mistake they made versus this is them as a human, they're a mess up, you know. Um, just we have to really slow down and rewire our brain through practice. Yeah. And it's it's hard and um criticism just comes easier and we don't yeah. But we don't benefit as a group or even as an individual when we do that. So here's a question that I think is kind of tricky or hard, and we'll see if you can come up with an answer. Um if we are all prone to opening ourselves up to people who seem to like us, so if we have somebody in our midst who is really good at pointing out our strengths or is super positive or very enthusiastic and you know, they just they brood energy. So um if we have those people around us, are there things that we need to watch out for? Like, how do we know when it's like a genuine healthy positivity and energy versus maybe somebody who's manipulating us or blowing smoke up our skirt?

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Well, I'd have to wear a skirt first in order for that to happen. Yeah, that is that's really hard. I think part of that is time and relationship. So I'm gonna, I will actually speak to the the first thing that like the things that we need to watch out for. I think sometimes when we only surround ourselves with positive people, we we and I don't even actually want to say positive people because that's the wrong, that's the wrong phrasing of that. But when we only surround ourselves with people who are only going to encourage us, because encouragement is important, we wouldn't disagree with that. But when that's all that they do, we start to get what kind of like confirmation bias. There's nobody who's gonna challenge our thinking, there's nobody who's gonna be like, uh, are you sure? Because that's not really how I saw it happen, or that's not how I felt it happen. Um, and so I think that when we only surround ourselves with people like that, we're almost breeding an environment for unhealthy relationships to flourish. Uh, and so then those red flags, if you will, or those warning signs over when are we being manipulated, when are we just being puffed up, or when are we actually being spoken truthfully to, become a lot harder to discern. I think in order to discern the in disingenuous people, we have to surround ourselves with the opposite of that. I can't say that word, in ingenuous, uh, like real people. Yeah. Right. Where we're gonna hear some of the things that we're doing that don't make them as happy. And yet it's not in a shame way or a judgment way or a condemning way, but in just a healthy, like, hey, did you mean to say this? Or did you mean for that to sound like this because it did when you said that? That helps us recognize kind of the fake encouragement that we may be receiving from other people. So I don't think it's as easy as like picking up on one or two things. I think it's more having a diversity in the types of people that you engage with regularly because that's when those um warning signs.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

You can see the whole picture when you yeah, I love that idea. Diversity, but then also like credible. It's like it's hard to know when somebody's credible until you really get to know them and spend time with them over time, right? And so you watch them um over a period of time, you uh journey with them through different experiences, you watch how they react in certain ways, you know, in certain situations, and then they build credibility in your life, and then you can you know it's important to listen to them at that point.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

So yeah, because I think that there's a lot of people, I mean, you've seen it as a pastor's wife and as a leader in the church, and I have as well. And I think one of the things, if I'm allowed to say that frustrates me is when people who uh don't engage in the church, they just come to church are the ones who are criticizing everything happening in the church. Uh, because they don't have that relational equity to be able to say maybe we could do it different, because they're just coming to, they're not engaging with. And so that creates a little bit of tension.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

And it's one of the dangers of like social media, yeah, right? Because people don't have a relationship with a lot of the names that are on social media or the church page or um certain forums or pl you know, um platforms. And so um you haven't earned the credibility to speak into people's lives when you are just a Facebook friend. Or even it but people do that too, and it so many it doesn't come across very well. So no, you haven't earned that credibility. So Dale Carnegie in his book mentioned several times Jesus' teachings, and I don't think it's a Christian book, but he did talk about Jesus a lot. Um, what are some of the things Jesus teaches us about social intelligence?

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Oh man, I I think that he teaches us quite a bit. I think one of the things that that I really appreciate about how Jesus approaches people is that he he treats everybody that he meets with dignity. Like there's no hierarchy in his interactions and engagement with people. And so he saw people, he saw individuals, he didn't see um categories or or labels, right? Like where we would say the tax collectors or the sinners or the outsiders or the you know, the whomevers, he saw them as people. He gave like he he engaged with them on an interpersonal level that made them feel seen. And I think that builds trust faster than probably anything else. And so when we are trying to model after Jesus and how we approach people, that ability to kind of strip away the things that we see or the things that we've heard about them or the things we think we know about them, and instead to just see them as an individual person will help build trust with them, I think, way, way faster. The other thing, which I think is huge, sounds funny coming in from a podcast where we're speaking a lot, but uh Jesus asked so many questions. There are um, there are, I think, I think I read it vacillates between like 300 and 308, depending on who you ask. But he asks about 300, just over 300 questions in the three years of recorded ministry that we have with him in scripture. Wow. And so he asked so many questions. And the cool thing is he already knew the answer. Like he was so much more interested in what other people had to think, like what other people had to say, or to get them to this place of thinking and understanding by asking questions, not just telling them what they should think or believe, even though that's what they were asking him to do. And instead, he he asked questions, he was curious, he he helped them engage with themselves to come to these realizations of truth that he already had for them. And I I think that's amazing. And honestly, and ironically, actually, I guess, is I think it's Dale Carnegie who says um it's more important to be interested than it is to be interesting. Yeah. And we see that modeled in scripture. And so um I think that curiosity when we in uh approach situations, especially ones that are full of conflict and strife, when we can approach them with With curiosity that disarms defensiveness and it creates a point of connection with somebody else. Because it's no longer us just telling them our opinions or our thoughts, but we're actually engaging with them and drawing them into a conversation. And so I think Jesus models that really well. I mean, there's so many other things, like he leads with empathy and compassion, and he, you know, he's not afraid to go into spaces. He speaks truth differently than maybe we do with our kind of sharp edges. He he shows us what it looks like to manage conflict without an escalate. Like there's just so many skills that we can learn from Jesus. Yes. What's something that you've like as you've thought about like Jesus and his role in social intelligence? Is there something that you've thought about or that has stuck out to you?

SPEAKER_02 44:46

I don't know. It's not necessarily from Jesus, but um other places in scripture I've really loved like thinking about like the idea of building each other up, right? That comes from scripture. So that's like a form of encouragement. We don't tear each other down, build each other up. Yeah. Um be quick to listen. I when I memorized the book of James a long time ago, my favorite the one that the phrase that still comes to mind and then still that God uses all the time to slow my slow me down is be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger. Those are just like some basic social social skills that I've learned from being in God's word and learning about the scriptures, right? Yeah. And I think it's Jesus that teaches us the golden rule, isn't it? Like treat other stuff, yeah, how you want to be treated. I don't know exactly that. That's not his exact words, but it the golden rule comes from scriptures. And so um, there's just so much we can learn about how we interact with people. And um just really appreciate it. We have that guide in in scripture. Yeah. Um what are some ways, some practical things we can try in our churches or in our relationships to begin to practice making others feel important? How can we show people that we're interested in them?

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Yeah, I think the first thing I again I'll say it once, I'll say it a million times, it is be curious. I mentioned that earlier on when we talked about this. And I was hoping that something along these lines would come up because I think curiosity in people is one of the biggest gifts that we can give them. When we are curious about their lives, when we're curious about what they're going through, when we're curious about um what they're thinking, what they're feeling, why they got to where they got like curiosity for me, those that idea of being curious when it comes to other people is something that I think really does help people feel important. And I I hope people don't hear this and they're like, oh, well, we just have to be curious. And then people, you know, because it's so much deeper than that. Like, because I I truly do think that there is healing that takes place when we are curious with one another instead of combative or instead of um judgmental. Yes, yeah, yeah. Or or we're just like coming at them or um I don't want to say aggressive, but kind of in a way, right? And so I yeah, I think that for people to feel important, and I think again, going back to Dale Carnegie and even that idea of in the workplace when we point out the things that people are doing well and that we see in their in their lives that are well and that they're strong at pointing out their strengths. Um, you know, I really loved the way that you encouraged, you know, Kathy after Bible study today. I love seeing you connect with other people.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yeah. Um, one of the things I learned about when I was learning about spiritual gifts was that people tend to see the world through their giftings, right? Or and the church and what needs to be done through their own spiritual gifts. And um, they tend to not sometimes undervalue the gifts of someone else.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

And and um, like a server who's like down in the gym picking up tables and chairs, might be annoyed and frustrated at the person who's standing there taught having a conversation with someone else. Yeah. Like, why won't they help? You know, they're avoiding work. Yeah, they're avoiding the work. And I'm like, but they just have a different gift, right? And um, I think part like like what you were saying, um, it's important that we slow down and we pay attention to what they're trying to contribute, where they're coming from, why what's motivating them, you know, in in those moments, and um have a respect for the differences that are in between us.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Um it's that, it's that blindness, right? Where um, and same thing with um uh love languages, right? Like we, if if if your love language is to give gifts, then you assume, you know, like there's just a lot of assumptions that are made about that, or if, or sorry, not if your love language is to give gifts, but if your love language is to receive them, then you just assume that the other person wants to receive gifts too. So you give it to them. Yeah. And theirs might be physical touch or words of affirmation or something completely different that you're missing the bar on because you're just only doing what you know that you can't love the way we want to receive love. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. My um my kids used to my oldest, especially, talking about the golden rule earlier and showing things that you want to receive. Um, he used to, when he would be mean to his brother, and I would say, you know, like Colton, why are you being mean to your brother? And he's like, he's like, Well, that's how he wants to be treated.

unknown 50:06

And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Like nobody wants to be treated with meanness. And he's like, Well, that's the way he's treating me. And so he must want to be treated that way. Because if you're supposed to treat others the way you want to be treated, and he's being mean to me, that must mean that he wants me to be. And he was like three or four. He probably didn't say it that articulately, but like I was just like, oh no.

unknown 50:29

How do you?

SPEAKER_00 50:31

How does he doing that? Yeah, different, right? But that's that's that idea of we tend to give the way we like to receive.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And so keeping that in mind will help us to um respect what other people are trying to do because maybe we don't quite understand it. It's not the way we would do it, but but we can learn to look at people and see their value and what they're contributing. And um, we hope they do the same for us, right? And um and we just all try to keep journeying together and growing in that in that connection and environment and common mission that we have as a church. Yeah. Or even in as a family, you know, in our homes. So for sure.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

You know, like don't be mean to your brother. Yeah. He doesn't actually want to be treated poorly. Well, and I think the cool the cool thing is is that it's just like most intelligences, they can be improved, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Yeah, practice, yeah. Well, in the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, he mentioned six ways to make people like you. So if we want to like find ways for people to, you know, just to um win people over, um, these are where you can start. And we've mentioned some of them already. But number one is be genuinely interested in people. And so you kind of you've already mentioned that with the curiosity. We're asking questions, we're trying to listen, right? Smile. That was the number two. Like, just smile. I keep telling my kids, they're always like, Why are you walking through the grocery store smiling at strangers? I'm like, Because why does it what does it hurt? Right, yeah. You smile at people. Um, my dad was smiling, Steve. So it's I learned it from him. We just smile at people, and you can win people to yourself that way. Um, remember that a person, a person's name to that person is the sweetest sound. Um, our church a while back read a book called Get Personal or Let's Let's Get Personal as something by Orange.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Anyway, I think it was like Yeah, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

But it talked about um the importance of learning names. And so as a church, um, even I know Jason talks about this with his with his staff and um in the kids' department and the youth department, we were trying to learn the kids' names. We're just like learn people's names, it makes them feel important when you remember their names. And so it's a value that we try to work out here. Um, the next one is be a good listener, encourage others to talk about themselves. Yeah. So just ask questions. It's not that hard. Just ask questions. People want to talk about it. People will talk about themselves. Yes, they will.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

They like it. Everybody's like, oh, I don't like talking about myself until you ask them a question and then they'll actually talk about themselves.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

Yes. And so maybe that'll be one of our awkward um small talk things is we just need to have some good questions that we ask people, right? When we're in in the lobby. Yeah. I asked the same questions. I need some new ones. Number five is talk in terms of other the other person's interests. So, what are the things that they're interested in and um excited about? And number six, make the other person feel important and do it sincerely. Yes. So that's what we kind of talked about. We didn't we're not trying to blow smoke up someone's skirt, right? We're trying to make sure that they know that we actually do see their value and that we are thankful that we're with them. And so, since we know that social intelligence is learned and it can be practices, we know it comes easier for some people than others, and it takes practice. Failures and successes teach us, right? What's one thing that maybe you're inspired to pay attention to or try to practice or learn moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Fleshing this out with my voice. Um, but moving away from the the generic questions of how are you? I don't actually think I ask that one a lot. I learned a long time ago through like my chaplaincy training and stuff like that, that that's just a terrible question to ask people. I'll ask it more pointedly, how are you doing today? Or how are you doing right now? Or how was your excursion with, and I'm a little bit more specific when it comes to the how are you blank questions, uh, but one that I think we we we shuffle, especially with new people, into asking, like, what do you do a lot? That's another very common generic question. And I saw it recently where where somebody asked, what is the what is what do you enjoy the most about what you do? So instead of getting to like what it is that they do, they get to share about what they enjoy about their job. And in that then opens up a whole new level of conversation because now you're not just like, oh, I'm a salesperson. Oh, that's cool. Like, where do you go from there? Right. But instead of it's tell me about some, like, what do you enjoy about what you do for work? Oh, I really enjoy that. I get to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like that's anyway. So I think I want to incorporate, like, try to figure out and engage more around less generic questions that tie to generic questions we typically ask.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

I like that. I like that tip tip. Can I claim that as mine too?

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Yes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

I was gonna ask. Do you have one? No, I like that's that's a really good one. Um, I've been sitting here trying to think what I would how I'll answer that question. And um, and I think it it's similar. I just want to ask more questions with a sense of curiosity, um, with the intention to find the value in the next person, to find the value in the person I'm talking to, you know, not necessarily just to engage with them so that they feel happy they're at our church or that they're talking to me, but just like so that they feel important, like engage them on at a level that will make them feel valued beyond the greeting. Yeah, I do love them. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

And that is what that is what I want people to know. I think for me, and I I'm gonna speak for you because I know you pretty well, is that we we truly do want people to know that they are seen and they are loved and they are valued, even if it's the first time that we are meeting them, because it's not about knowing things about them, it is about knowing who created them. And that in and of itself gives the people that we come into contact with an unlimited amount of value worth being seen. And like that is my heart where I'm like, yes, I just want I don't want it to be fake for people. I don't want them to be like, oh, she was just doing that because she said she's going to on a podcast. No, like like these things come out of like the depth of of like my soul and who I want and how I want them to be able to see themselves too.

SPEAKER_02 58:07

Well, even this conversation comes from that place, like how can we be better at being like Jesus? Yes, you know, and then how can we love people the way he taught us to? Yeah, and that comes from learning about things like social intelligence and picking up on views, yes, and and things like that. It's it is what drives drives both of us, right? It drives me um to keep learning and keep having these hard conversations or fun conversations sometimes, but like um because I like to learn. Um, yeah, but I hope that that conversation, this conversation that we've had over social intelligence will help drive people to to pursue new skills to help them best in engage with the people around them. So yeah, I agree. All right, well, as we get ready to wrap up, we like to do something called the somehow together question of the day, where we draw a random question from our prompt jar to close out our time together. And so our question of the day is what's something small that instantly makes your day better, Miranda.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Something small that instantly makes my day better is my really obnoxious dogs. Oh, I love them so much. At the time of this recording, I think by the time it airs, I'll still be without them. Um, but I I will be away from them for close to two months by the time I'm reunited back with them. And I notice myself as I approach the door, I'm I'm like, I'm like, the puppies are gonna greet me. And then I get home and they don't. And I'm like, oh, sad. Because they're not there to greet me, not because they hate me, but because they're not there. They moved to Utah with Nate already. Yes. Yes, they're in Utah with Nate already. And so they, but just they're I don't know, there's just something about being greeted at the door by your dog. No matter if you've been outside for two seconds or you know, two hours or two days, there's there's something about it. And and the the head lay right on my lap, or the I don't know. There, my puppies, it's small, but it makes me happy almost. I was wondering how you were doing without your puppies. So uh maybe not as small as I thought I was, actually. Taking some time to reflect on you need to FaceTime your dogs. Yeah, they don't listen to video, they'll like perk up their ears when they hear my voice, but they won't like look at the screen. Sure. It's very weird. We've tried, clearly.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

We've tried to do it with our cat and Olivia at college too. So uh yeah, they don't like it. I don't know. I don't know what there's yeah, I don't know. No. All right. Something that's is small, but that instantly makes my day better is my first drink or sip of Diet Coke each day. Ooh, the first sip. It's this first sip. It's even the cracking open of the can. If if I'm at work, I usually drink cans. And so I do love a good, you know, fountain drink with pebble ice and stuff like that. McDonald's Diet Coke's the best, but at work I'll crack open that can and take a drink, and I'm like, okay, I can make it through the rest of the day. I love this. Love this drink, and it just makes my day better. So and I love Diet Coke. And so people that know me know that I love Diet Coke. So there you go. Anyway, well, thanks for being here, and we will see you again on the Somehow Together podcast. Talk with you guys later. Thanks for spending time with us today. If this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone you want to help feel a little less alone. And as you go through your week, ask yourself where in my life do I need togetherness right now? Until next time, we are somehow together.