What's It Like Being a Novice

Being new at something is uncomfortable, but it is also where so much growth begins. In this episode, Erica and Miranda talk about what it means to be novice podcasters, the vulnerability of learning in public, and why trying new things can stir up anxiety, humility, laughter, and growth. From parenting and counseling to podcasting, ministry, friendship, and faith, they reflect on the courage it takes to keep learning instead of avoiding what feels hard. Together, they explore how Scripture invites us to remain teachable, how safe relationships help us grow, and why being beginners might be one of the healthiest things we can allow ourselves to be.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Somehow Together podcast where we explore faith, connection, and everything that holds us together. I'm Erica and I'm Miranda. Life is messy and relationships are messy. But we weren't meant to do this life alone.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

And God, He is still working in the middle of it all.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

So we're still showing up somehow together. Welcome to the Somehow Together Podcast, where Moran and I today are going to talk about being novice podcasters. We're so excited to have you with us. And um, as we have been on this new journey of learning how to podcast, we have been thinking a lot about being beginners at something new. And so we wanted to have a discussion about that and to talk about why it's important to be willing to learn and be new at things. And so, Miranda, I want to start by asking you when was a time in your life where you had to learn something new that was, you know, either a challenge or just really difficult? And what do you remember about that experience?

SPEAKER_02 1:13

We'll get to the podcast part later. Yes, we will. Yeah. Uh for for me, when I look back over my life and learning how to start something new that was a challenge, I think that would be highlighted by so many parts of my past. I am a learner by nature. I like to learn new things. And so to boil it down to one isolated experience is kind of hard. And so the thing that popped into my head the most was being a parent to kids. Oh, that's great. Yeah. And I remember thinking that I would have it all together because I had a lot of experience with young kids when I became a parent. And it wasn't very long into getting my my first, my oldest son home for the first time where I realized I actually don't know anything. And as we have transitioned from season to season to season and like different developmental stages and all of that kind of stuff, that I realize I know far less than I care to admit about parenting. And so much of it is trial and error. Like you can read all the books, you can know all of the things. And yet, these little humans that we are entrusted to raise are their own people with their own personalities. And the way something works for one doesn't work for the other. And so I would say that that has been a challenge in my life that is continues to be an ongoing challenge. Right now we are in the stage of learning how to loosely hold on to our almost 18-year-old as still a teenager and a child, and at the same time giving space for him to explore a little bit more what it means to be an emerging young adult. And that comes with its own challenges too. And so yeah, I think for me, I would say parenting has definitely been a challenge that I've had to learn and grow through regularly.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

For sure. And because every stage of life requires all new learning, it's been an ongoing process for all of these years, right? Um it just keeps going.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah, it totally does. And that is the thing, which we'll talk about today, the thing about growth and learning new things. And so it gives us just the ability to look at something that has been challenging in our life and figure out where do we go when it's hard. So yeah, I think yeah, parenting, parenting man is not for the faint heart. That's your faint of heart for sure. How what about you? What's something in your life that you've had to learn that was a challenge? Sure. For you.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I am not uh well, I do like to learn. I like to learn things that are more um intellectual and life application and relational. So yes, I like to learn those things. But when it comes to like learning new skills or tasks that are like more concrete, I definitely avoid them and resist resist learning in those in those ways. Um so the idea of learning is some kind sometimes uncomfortable for me, but um I remember learning to be a counselor was a very big challenge. And so I remember graduating from my master's program and entering the workforce and feeling really incompetent, like I didn't know what I'm doing. Like, how do these theories that I've studied and taken tests on actually apply to this room where I'm now I'm now sitting with somebody and trying to listen and figure out how to um walk with them in their journey? I remember feeling like a weight of responsibility, trying to figure it all out. Um, and it was it was hard. I didn't really have a great supervision experience when I was young. And I think that's really important. So when I tell counselors now, I'm like, look for a supervisor who has invested in you and is really helping you. And if you feel like they're just signing off on your hours, you're gonna miss out on something really great. So yeah, um, I I think that was really, really hard. And I have had to keep learning through this whole process. And um, I'm at a stage now where I feel pretty confident going in and working with people, but I still have topics that come up that I don't know about, I still have issues that I don't know how to address, and so I have to be a constant learner, or I would just not be able to help people very well.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

So yeah, things shift so fast in really any any field, but I think particularly when you are working with people, yeah. You have to be willing to to kind of dig in and and learn a little bit more. Do you feel like do you feel like you ever have imposter syndrome? Oh yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

That's what I was and I remember when I was really young, I felt it a lot. Um feeling like I'm just trying to act like I know what I'm doing, trying to act competent with all these doubts floating around in the back of my head. So for sure. It's hard, it's hard when you're learning something new, especially something in a new career field or hobby, or even a hobby like podcasting, right? So um, and I'm so different than my husband. So Jason will read an instruction manual from start to finish, and he will like tackle something, and he tries to educate himself about things, and I'm kind of like, I'll figure it out as I go. I need to find a YouTube video that tells me how to do this because I'm not gonna read an instruction manual on anything, you know. Um, I do like to read books, but I even prefer audio learning in books, and so yeah, uh, like instructions are hard for me, but yeah, he will just tackle things very differently than I do. And um, he's willing to learn that way. But do you like to listen or do you like to will you read an instruction manual?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Oh yeah, I'm uh I'm definitely more of a reader than I do. I actually really struggle with audiobooks. I think because I just check, I check out when it's only audio input. Okay. Uh I think that for me, I grew up in a really big family. And so there was noise all the time. And it was easy to tune out the noise to be able to focus on what was right in front of me. And that has definitely carried over. I like to be able to highlight things. And so I will read fiction and fun books on my, you know, like my Kindle app. But when it comes to anything educational or instructional or growth-oriented, anything like that, I I need the book. I need the book because I like to take notes and I like to write and I like to do all those things. I think the only way I can really focus on audio is if I'm reading along with it. Okay. And so if I'm reading along with it, I can focus more on the audio. Or if I'm in front of, you know, like at church with a sermon, like the audio does like I don't tune, I don't tune out the messages or movies, you know, things like that. But when it comes to yeah, when it comes to learning, uh, definitely more of a visual, visual learner for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

What do you think you need in your life to feel safe enough to try new things or grow in areas where you haven't honed your skills yet? A large dose of humility for sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

To to to recognize and know that I will probably fail at it five million times before there's something successful that comes from it, and surrounding myself with people who will give me the space for that. Uh the failure without the the judgment, I guess. And so that helps boost confidence and the ability to step into new things when you know that there's a a person or two or three that is behind you cheering you on and rooting for you. Yeah. Who will even laugh with you when you make the really the really the really weird mistakes, if you will, and that you can laugh through it and know that it you're not being judged or you're not being um your value isn't being based off of the what you're producing, and it's just the space to to try something new. And if you fail at it, the ability to have somebody who's gonna be there to be like, okay, well, do you want to keep trying or try something else?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, that's great. That's great. I think that in those situations, I have to be motivated or inspired to try the thing. And so, like, if somebody is telling me to do something, or you know, when you have a work project put on you, or I'm put on a task force at work and I have to figure out a bunch of new things, and I'm really not motivated or inspired, it's really hard to want to do those things. But if like if I feel motivated and inspired to do it, like I feel like God's put it on my heart or um have the passion behind it, then I am more willing to keep trying and not give up when it's hard and keep learning. Um also bravery, right? I feel like sometimes we put ourselves out there in ways that uh feel vulnerable. And so um when we're trying new things, it takes a good amount of bravery and and willingness to overcome the anxiety that we feel inside of us. So yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Do you feel like do you think that you would say peer pressure for you is one of your motivators? Like if the other people around you are doing it or saying it, and not in a negative way. Like, take take out like the idea that peer pressure is somebody trying to convince you to do something you don't want to do because it goes against a moral or a value that you hold, but rather the environment that you are in provides kind of that pressure to perform in a way that maybe you wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I think that I have to buy into the why of whatever it is that I'm doing. So I don't think that peer pressure um is a motivator unless we're all, I mean, I maybe the the group of us are all working on a common mission, or I under we're all we all understand the why behind whatever we're learning or doing. Um, then I think it's motivate a motivator for me. How about you? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah, I don't actually care for peer pressure. I'm more likely to not do it because I'm being pressured to do it. And and again, outside of, I think that's different if somebody's trying to convince me to do something that I don't feel passionate about doing or feel like I should be doing for whatever reason. But when it's on a team or like you said, like working towards a common goal or or mission that we're all bought into, and it's something that I'm like, uh, I don't really want to do that. I'm more likely to end up doing it because of where it gets us and not necessarily because it's the task or the ask of me. Okay. But if it's just pressure for pressure's sake, I kind of buck the system a little bit. And I've always kind of been that way.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Like, no, you can't make me. Also, I think uh for me, I need time alone to hone skills or to read things or to really fully think through things. I like a team atmosphere to um bring up the idea, but for me to be able to spend some time reflecting on it or to figure things out alone is really important. So sometimes I I just need that time to be able to like mess around with the computer myself or to uh think through the reasons why I'm doing this on my own to practice the skills, whatever I'm learning.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

So watch that YouTube video.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, watch a YouTube video. Well, Jason at our house has been playing around with woodworking and he's been trying to make this bowl out of pieces of plywood, and and it's been fun to watch him kind of experiment with it. And we've been talking a lot about even now that we're in our midlife you know years, that it's okay for us to be novice at something, to try something new, to experiment around with different hobbies and goals, right? And and so we've been having this conversation a lot around our house. And so just for reference, a novice is a person who is new to a field, an activity, or a job, possessing little to no experience, training, or skill. It describes someone in the early stages of learning, often acting as a beginner, trainee, or apprentice. And I love this definition's emphasis on being new to learning in a certain area. This that that concept of learning. It's okay to be new to learning, right? They say that it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert in any one area, which I'm like, that's crazy, right? That's so much time. That's so much time. So therefore, we are all on this journey of learning for most of our life in most areas of our life, right? Um, what do you think about being a novice podcaster?

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Um I well, um is one of the you know the things here. Yes. I think being a novice podcaster has probably been one of the most uncomfortable learning experiences that I have stepped into in a very, very long time. I agree. Everything about it has been a different challenge and a good challenge in some ways and a not wonderful challenge in other ways. It has heightened and highlighted the fact that I really don't know as much about things as I thought I did, and that is from content and the creational aspect or creative aspect of it, I guess, to all I mean all the things. All the things it has it has been social media, yes, editing, all the technology.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

There's so many platforms that are required to do this. We are learning how to share a pot, share an email address with someone, like little things learning when we should pause on a screen, you know, on the recording, when we should stop saying like and um like I keep coming up with all of these things that we still have yet to learn and figure out, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:50

And every time I turn around, it's something it's something new, literally, which we're just this morning. Okay, for those for context, Eric and I are in the same building, but we're not in the same room because we had audio issues from the very beginning, being in the same room together. And so we decided that we were going to separate and try this in not the same area, and yet we walked back and forth between offices for an hour this morning, trying to dial in what needed to happen just so that we could hit the record button so that sometime in the next few weeks you would get to hear this episode.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

That's true. And after we recorded our first few episodes, we realized later that we needed to put the music in while recording, not afterwards. And so the first few episodes are gonna be without music, but hopefully, hopefully, after an hour of working on it this morning, we'll be able to have a little sound bite that sounds musical in our episode. We will see, right? It's it's been a learning movement this far. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

You get to hear the music introduction. And I'm sure you some of you guys who are more uh technologically savvy than us or who have experience with editing and recording, you're probably gonna be like, you know that there is a way easier way to do that. That's great. Email us your tips and your tricks because we're hiring for a producer right now. The pay is awful. There's a lot of zeros attached to that, which starts with a zero and ends with as many zeros as you want.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

It's been a it's been a lot. Uh every time we think we're gonna sit down and record two podcasts, we have an extra two hours at least of technology technology issues that we have to navigate and figure out. And so there's a lot. There's a lot that comes into being a podcast. When we first started, we had no idea. We thought we were gonna chat with each other and have fun like we always do.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I think we we looked at sorry guys, I am trying so hard not to lose it. Uh we looked at a PDF file that broke down a class we weren't able to take because it was full at a conference that we were at. And so we took this PDF file and we looked at it. We're like, we can do that. Yeah. We can do that. And here we are. This is what our probably our fourth or fifth, depending on how we how we release episode, if you will, into this season. And we are still learning.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Learning, still new to learning. And I think that's okay, right? 100%.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

And it has been for all the frustrations, it has been fun. Again, I'm a learner, so like learning the new things. Erica was telling me this morning that the average podcast only lasts for seven episodes. And I was flabbergasted because why would you put so much work into learning something new and overcoming all the obstacles to get to you know, episode five, six, seven, or even eight, and then be like, quit.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Never mind. No, we've invested too much time and energy into this and money, right? Into this. We're like, we're not giving up. We are at least we will at least be above average and have eight podcasts. 100%. Okay. So we we are above, we are we're shooting for above average. Yes, shooting for above average. That's right. It's doable. It is. So, what part of being a beginner, you know, or being new to something feels the most threatening? And do you avoid being a novice at times?

SPEAKER_02 20:55

That is a very good question. And I think when we look at the answer to that, it actually tells us more about ourselves than we would like to know. For me, I actually don't like being bad at things. And so the thought of failure, even more so than in the investment of time and energy into it, is probably what would keep me going longer than necessary. I I'm okay being goofy and silly, and I'm okay making mistakes. That those don't, that doesn't really bug me because I know that mistakes are part of learning. It's how you learn and grow. I don't like to fail. And I don't, I don't like people looking at me like I am an expert in something and feeling like I am not at all. And so even as we talk through some of our deeper topics that we that we go through on this, there is a part of me where I'm like, who am I to to tell people?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

You're an imposter, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yes, yes, which is why I asked that question earlier. Cause I definitely I feel that a lot of the time. And so for me, I think that is that is it. It's that perception of how will people view me and see me. And yeah, I don't have the the right to be viewed or seen in that capacity. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yes, it does. I definitely do not like to feel incompetent. Um, I don't like to be viewed as if I am incompetent. It's it's one of those triggering things for me. And so uh being a new podcaster, the world gets to find out that we're incompetent, that we're novice at this. So we're just learning, you know. Um, I also am somebody who is like really prioritizes efficiency. And so when I think about my time and I think about my resources and I think about um my energy, I'm like, what am I gonna give myself to? I don't like to do that, to spin those three things on something that's not gonna have good results, or that it's just gonna be for fun. I guess I should do more for fun. But like um, and so putting it out there and putting all this time and money and energy into it feels threatening, I guess, or feels like I might be wasting something that is important, and I have a lot of other things I want to do with my time and energy and money, you know, and so that's kind of hard.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

It is, it is hard because in order to do something well, you have to not do it well at the beginning. Okay, that's not entirely true. I know some people who can start something and you look at them, it seems easy, and you tell yes, and you're are you for real right now? How in the world do you just do that? And so I do get that for some things and for some people, the beginning part is easy for them, and yet I'll say for the common folk out there, it it is hard to do something. And so there's so much of it that feels like it's outside of our control. And I think as human beings, we like to be in as much control as possible. And so when it starts to not go our way, or you hit um you hit these roadblocks or speed bumps along the way, those are those become barriers to continuing on in learning and growing.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

So allowing ourselves to learn, you know, be new to learning is hard. What do you think we would miss out on if we were never willing to try new things? I I love that.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

I think the biggest thing that we would miss out on is growth. Truly because when we have to fight through the struggle, I think that is really where true growth and true change happens in all facets of life. I even think of my faith journey and how many, how many times I came out stronger through what I would say is maybe not crisis of faith, but those really hard points where I had to struggle through something with the Lord and the formation that happened through that and on the other side of that is something that I would not trade in the world. And so I think really when when we don't allow ourselves to be beginners at things, when we don't allow ourselves to try something new, when we don't allow ourselves to fail at something, we miss out on what can happen in us and through us when we persevere and push through.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yes, I love that. Yeah, and I think that is I I'm motivated to grow, right? And so yeah, I definitely don't love the novice feeling, but I do love growing. And so it's sometimes we just we grow through through trial and error. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

And so I I do believe as well that that when we don't try new things or we don't push through hard things, there is a relational cost to that as well. Sure. Because if we don't try new things and we're not willing to learn how to kind of flex and bend a little bit, we become too rigid in in who we are and what we do or don't do. And when we become too rigid, rigid people are just really hard to grow with. And so there is this aspect of relationship that happens when we allow ourselves to navigate and try, try new things, even within the context of community and each other, because when you are so rigid in what you do and how you see things or view things, it's really hard to be in community with other people.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

I agree. Also, I think that anxiety grows the more we avoid things that are hard. And I mean, it's how the anxiety avoidance cycle works. I educate people on that all the time in therapy. Um and if we are always working to avoid the uncomfortable things, our anxiety is actually gonna grow. And then it makes it harder to try the next new thing. And we end up isolating and having a lot of other struggles that are compounded. And so just because somebody is out there trying something new doesn't mean they're not afraid, right? It doesn't mean that they have no anxiety about it or no um nervous gut about sitting in front of a microphone, right? But the fact that we face it and try to grow through it, yeah, um, helps and overcome that anxiety helps the anxiety to uh to be less um over overwhelming, I think. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

I think you've said it before in a way that I have really loved. And if I if I miss, I'm not gonna quote you because I don't exactly remember, but if I misspeak, feel free to correct me. But you and I have talked a lot about the role that anxiety plays in the lives of people and how it seems like right now in the culture we live in, the desire to alleviate all discomfort in order to alleviate anxiety is what people are trying to strive for. And yet being able to navigate and work through that discomfort is actually what then helps us navigate and deal with and cope more healthily with the anxiety when it pops up.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Correct. Yes, that's exactly how it works. When we avoid anxiety, it grows, when we face it, um, we feel better, anxiety is in check, we learn to manage it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Which is crazy because it's so um and it's the opposite of what you think you would have to do. Correct. And so we actually have to do the thing that we think will cause us even more anxiety or hardship. Yes. And yet in doing so, we actually alleviate a lot of the anxious responses that we have when discomfort and uncomfortable situations pop up.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah. And when I think through the years of like what I would have missed out on if I would have listened to my anxiety, I think that I would have missed out on a lot of learning opportunities in the church. Um, I think I I remember one year, this is in my old church that I helped co-lead VBS and it was huge and it was made me anxious and it was overwhelming, but I did it and I learned so much through that process, and I got to see the blessings that came from that. Um, I've tried speaking on the stage before, you know, in our churches, and that's my my watch literally the last time I did it, my watch was like, your heart rate is up, your heart rate is up, you know. And I'm like, uh it is, it was because I was anxious, you know, I had to get up and and talk in front of people. But yeah, by facing those things that make you nervous, sometimes you end up benefiting and growing and receiving some of the best uh blessings of your life, right? I would be really sad um to not be where I'm at today in ministry if I, you know, because if I would have listened to my anxiety and and kind of hung out by myself in my house. So yeah, 100%. Yeah. Um, so how can we encourage each other as we talk about like we are still new to this podcast journey, right? We're novice podcasters. How can we encourage each other as we're still new to this learning process? And how can we make it safe for each other to grow?

SPEAKER_02 31:32

I think it's what we've kind of already talked through and about. One, if we know what the other person needs, which we talked about, how to create the space for each of us to thrive as we learn something new and podcasting falls into something new. I think that mostly it's the desire and the ability to hear what the other person needs and then be able to provide that. And so when you were speaking, I heard you say that you you like to learn the new things, and yet it also takes you some time to process and be able to implement them in a degree in which you feel comfortable with. And so to make it safe for you to be able to grow in this particular sense would be to make sure that there is space for you to be able to process. So if I'm if I'm hosting and driving conversation and questions with you, giving them to you the night before we're supposed to record is probably going to feel very uncomfortable for you and feel almost like I'm setting you up for failure, instead of getting them to you early enough for you to be able to process through and think through the answers or at least the impressions that you you want to share. And so when we are encouraging each other in things to learn how to grow and do new things, I think learning what works best for the individual people is important. And again, I will say it, creating the safe space without judgment. It is okay to not do well. It is okay to fail. It is okay to think you are doing something well only to find out that you are not. And so to create a space where there is encouragement and not judgment, I think is going to be incredibly important and vital for people to have the space to learn and to grow and to ask the questions that they feel like they need to ask and to provide a space where you can show up and not feel like you have to be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

That's great. As we embrace this learning process, I appreciate that we're you're willing to laugh at me. And I don't feel like you're making fun of me, but we're just laughing at the fact that we use the word um too often or like or take pauses in the weirdest spots and and um or laugh too loud. Yeah, laugh too loud. Whatever it is, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Breathe too heavy.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

We have to be okay with our mistakes and embrace this learning process and be okay um as we support each other in doing the same. Um, because it does feel vulnerable that we're putting this out there on the airwaves, right? Yes. How did you feel when we released our first podcast this week? Because when we were we were recording this and it will come out later, but this week, as of this recording, we just released our first episode. We did to to the crowds, to the masses. How do you feel? How'd you feel?

SPEAKER_02 34:39

I wanted to throw up on when I I think I texted you at 10 that night and like, oh my goodness, our podcast drops in two hours. I'm not actually sure I slept those extra two hours. I think I was way too what are we about to do? Is it too late to go in there and take it off of the auto release? Will Erica notice if I if I just bump it out, you know, a little bit. Uh yeah, no, it was really, it was really nerve-wracking and it was super exciting. I was also really excited. And I was anticipating the, I don't know, whatever comes after that, which I don't really know what the ways that God was gonna use, the ways that God was gonna use it, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

And so I'm excited about that part of it. Um, and I've now that we've had it out for a few days, I've heard great things. And I'm like, the encouragement we've gotten from friends has been really um also it's been really supportive, and it's been um what we need to keep going and persevere in this novice new to learning experience.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

So it will get us to be above average with at least eight podcasts episodes. At least eight podcast episodes. Were you were you nervous at all? Or was it mostly just the anticipation and excitement?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

I think I was the most nervous when we when we published our Facebook page and our Instagram page and like put ourselves out there saying we are releasing a podcast. Okay. So when we did that a couple weeks ago, that was also that was very anxiety producing. Cause I was like, well, here we go. We are doing this. And there were literally like 15 steps we still had to figure out before our release date, between the time we put it out there to the world that we were going to have a podcast and actually releasing it.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

So I think even now we're still having issues with the social media platforms and cross-posting and access and all the all the fun things.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

So I think that that made me the most anxious. So I sat with it then a little bit more than I had to when we the night before we released it. I did have the thought, oh, it's gonna come out tomorrow. I wonder what's gonna happen. But at that point I was like, the world knows it's coming, so here it comes, you know. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

I think I went more towards, well, the world knows it's coming, but we can also always say that we have to delay it for whatever reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

So it didn't hit real until it trying to get YouTube to work with me on our distribution platform was took a three-day process, and it literally happened around 9 p.m. the night before our podcast came out. So it was like one of the things I was like, God's like, you got this, all right.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

One of the few things that actually went well.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Well, it took me three days to figure out, but I felt good in that moment when you texted me right after that, going, it comes out in two hours. I'm like, okay, so anyway, yeah. So thank you for everybody who's sent us texts and told us what our podcast um has meant to you this week. And I'm just glad that we get to be here. Yes. Um, so as we think about being a novice or being new to learning, what do you think the scriptures teach us about doing things for the first time or about learning?

SPEAKER_02 38:36

I think that the scriptures are full of people doing things for the first time and learning. I think of you know, Abraham who's called to leave his homeland and go somewhere where he's not even sure where he's supposed to go. Yeah, God just tells him to leave. He doesn't tell him where he's supposed to go yet. He just says, go and I'm going to show you the way. Uh, Moses leading uh an entire people population, literally, as he's like, God, I'm not equipped to do this. Um, Peter stepping, not even Peter just stepping out out of the boat onto the water and trusting that he's not going to sink, but Peter stepping out of the boat to go follow Jesus. Like there it's all through scripture. You look at any of the disciples, really, and following Jesus was a step in learning something new. In fact, not just learning something new, but they had to actually re-learn some of the truths that they had grown up with as young Jewish men. And for them to learn what it meant like to follow this Jesus guy went so far against everything that they would have culturally known at the time. And so everything that they were asked to do and everything that they experienced under the leadership of Jesus would have been new for them. And so this is vulnerable, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yes, very vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yes. And so I think that that there are so many places throughout scripture where we see people stepping into doing something new or doing something challenging or not believing that they are equipped to be able to do what it is that they are going to try. And yet Jesus meets them there every time.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Every single time.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yes. Thankfully. Thankfully, we have the Holy Spirit that walks with us as we take steps of obedience, right? And we keep trying to learn and do the difficult things. In Proverbs, there's a lot of verses about learning. And I was just gonna say that Proverbs 18, 15 says, intelligent people are always ready to learn. Their ears are open for knowledge. And then in the Psalms, it talks about show me your ways, Lord, teach me your paths, right? We we are always learning, we're always trying to figure out what is it that God's wanting us to, what is it that God wants us to do next? What's our next steps? What is what does he have for me?

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah. And when we ask those questions, there is this element of discernment and wisdom that we are trying to press into. And when you brought up Proverbs, that's what I was thinking. I'm like, man, Proverbs constantly ties wisdom to learning and even correction. So recognizing when you have even stepped out of alignment with wisdom and into what Proverbs calls folly, and then being able to course correct back into that learning and that wisdom. And so much of that learning is is also listening and being able to follow where you where God is leading as well. But it constant Proverbs constantly ties wisdom back to learning, understanding, and even correction.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

So that's great. Yes. So since we know that learning is biblical, what would happen to our relationships or in our churches if we stopped trying to learn new skills?

SPEAKER_02 42:07

We would get stale and stagnant. Just like as people, we would get rigid. So would our, so would our churches. We would, I think we would default to to things. I mean, I've heard it said this way. And I know being in churches as a pastor's wife and leader, you have also heard it. But this is the way we've always done it. Yes. I've heard that a lot. Yeah. So many times. And so we would stop adapting to each other as we grow. We would rely on old patterns that may not be healthy. I think that misunderstandings would increase. Communication would decrease in clarity. We would lose the ability to reach new people because if we're so set in our ways and doing things the way that we've always done them, are we actually cultivating an environment that is invitational to people who are seeking Jesus? Leaders would burn out. Yes. People would feel unseen because we're not learning and growing and how to care for them. I mean, there's so many. I know. So many ways I think that that would happen.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

I was trying to envision what it would be like to have a church without like a leadership pipeline. You know, as we uh invest in our youth, our young adults, uh, and we allow them to try things and to hone their skills and experiment around with where their giftings are. We get to watch them grow in, they take over certain ministries and they start to um step into roles, right? And it's very helpful. And it's just the church runs that way. And it's it's exciting to see, it's a great process. And so, from a leadership standpoint, I was trying to think what would it look like if we didn't have a leadership pipeline? What would it look like if we didn't have people? Trying to step into their gifts, and I was like, we'd have to pay people to do everything. It'd be like paid staff that were just they would be doing all the jobs. Like, yeah, I mean, it's not even feasible. The church would collapse, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so um, we'd also miss out on um living out our own giftings, and we and God's given us things that we're good at, and He has plans for us, and so we'd miss out on getting to live that out if we stopped learning. Um, and we'd stop making friends because relationships require a lot of learning.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

They do.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

And uh we and I I kind of wonder if that's why we are where we are as a society in this like loneliness epidemic, because people have stopped trying to learn how to be a friend. We do it in elementary school. I know so easy. And then as we age, middle school makes it awkward, and then people start listening to their anxiety instead of like putting themselves out there relationally. And as young adults and as adults that are middle-aged and um and on, we we end up pulling away and becoming isolated and and disconnected. And I think our phones have made it way worse. We think we're falsely connected with people. Yep. And so people don't even make it the effort anymore. But um anyway, I think part of it's just our unwillingness to try and learn how to be a friend anymore. So, how can churches or pastors create safe spaces for us to learn these new skills that we need?

SPEAKER_02 45:43

I think that there's quite a few ways, and I'll I'll try not to get too preachy, too preachy about it, maybe. Uh, I think one of the things that we can do right out the gate is, which is gonna be countercultural to our talk about pushing through difficult things, but I think initially creating some low-risk environments in which people can serve and kind of get a sense of confidence as they step into serving and leadership. I think that when we give them the opportunity to try something without the high pressure to whatever that outcome needs to be, we can equip them with the confidence that they need to be able to then go out and do and live out what it is that they are being called to do. I think that we can lead by example, that we can normalize as leaders that we don't know everything, that we are still learning and growing, that we share in our mistakes just as much as we share in our successes, that we don't punish people for trying and failing. I mean, we're I don't know that we like punish, punish might be the wrong word, people for trying and failing, but that we really try to help them understand that growing and failing is not the same thing as like it doesn't cultivate the same idea that it's shameful to fail or they're being condemned or judged for it. And so creating a safe place for failure to happen. And that happens, I think, best when we start to celebrate some of the effort and not necessarily the outcomes with people. I also really do think that setting people up for success in serving and creating safety for people to try new things is when we as leaders in churches are clear in what what next steps look like for them. Whether that is here's how we can help you in your next steps in your faith journey, here's how we can help support you as you do X, Y, and Z. Oh, you want to be able to lead this ministry or start this ministry, here's what this actually looks like. Instead of, oh, you want to be a small group leader, sure, go be a small group leader, start your small group, have fun. Um, but providing them with a clear understanding of what it looks like to be a small group leader, what it means to be a small group leader, here's the steps that you're gonna take, here's how you care for people within your small group. Um I don't think people grow well in like muddied environments. And so we we get the we get the pleasure of being able to break some of those things down in actionable steps for people. And when they can do those, it gives them the confidence to be able to then go and do the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Along with that, we have to practice having conversations about skills and growth areas and not in a shameful way. No, but even having the ability to hear it is a skill, you know, being able to listen to somebody else's suggestions and um critiques of our skills and helping us strategize on how to improve something, and then also being the ones, the leaders, being the ones to actually step into those uncomfortable conversations so that if they become more normal and maybe less uncomfortable eventually. But um, it's those are hard conversations, but they also are empowering conversations, right? When somebody believes in you enough to take the time to teach you how to do something better. Um one of the things I admire about Jason, who is my husband, in case I haven't made that obvious, is that he has never been like a pulpit hog. He's not like there are some lead pastors in churches that will not let anyone speak on Sunday morning and or to do certain things within the church. And he's always been about like, what is the next who's the next leader I'm going to put up front? Who's the next person that I'm gonna allow to step into this role? Um, and I've always really appreciated about them, that about him.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

It's that mentality of working yourself out of a job. Almost yes, and not in a way that like shirks your own responsibilities in the role. It is more to do with continuing to train and equip people. And even in ministry, I think of this like when I when I I will always take way more time to pour into and equip another leader coming up underneath me because they may have different passions and different skill sets than I have. And when they are able to press in and use their giftings, after they're ready to go and do, it actually frees me up to do more of the things that I'm passionate about doing. And I never feel as if I'm I'm giving part of my ministry away to other people to be able to participate in. I honestly feel like I'm broadening the scope of what ministry looks like, not just for me, but for other people as well. And I think of Jesus when I when I say that, he constantly shared ministry. He sent out his disciples two by two to go and preach to the people. He constantly was giving them authority, he was constantly showing them and sending them to go and do ministry, not for him, but with him in different places. And so that's what I think of when I think of what you were just saying, even with Jason, it is the sharing of ministry. But in order to do that, we also have to be good at equipping people so that they don't quit after eight podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Yes, yes, I love it. So, aside from podcasting, what are some skills you're currently trying to develop and how can I encourage you?

SPEAKER_02 52:07

That is a great question.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

This feels like enough right now, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 52:15

I know. I think podcasting is definitely one of them. Another, I'm not sure skills is maybe the right, maybe, because it's it's relational skills and it's community skills and it's all the all the peopling skills. Um, but being able to to learn what it looks like again to recreate community when there's not a very strong foundation for it. So not to like push into moving again, but that is a very real reality that I am facing. And I think even opposite from now coming in as a place, like as a leader, nobody will even see me or know me that way. And so learning what's that what's that book called, Erica? That is like learning to lead when you're not in charge. Yep, that's exactly the name of it. Yeah, I need to learn to do that. And and and and not not just like that. Sounds kind of arrogant to say I am a natural leader and I have been for a long time. And so moving into spaces and giving myself the freedom to not feel like I have to step into more than I'm ready for in a new in a new place, in a new environment. That will be that will be hard.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Sure. Well, we will continue talking through that process. So I will do my best to encourage you in that. Yes. Um, right now I am learning a new uh therapy modality. I don't know if that's the right word, and um or what you know, a a way to think of therapy and and um went through a six-week course and it took me, I don't know, three months to get through it. But yeah, you know, I'm getting through it and trying all these new tools and techniques with people. And so it that's fun. It's always risky when you pull out a new metaphor or a new uh strategy because you don't know if people are going to be open to it or if you're explaining it very clearly or whatever. So that is something I'm working on. I also have started leading a small group, which I've led small groups for years, but I am leading it currently with a group of young adults. And right now it's just a bunch of young men who come. And so I pulled Jason in, so he's in there too, but we are working our way through John, and so it's not there's not a formal study we're doing. We're literally just taking the scriptures, looking at who Jesus is, figuring out what we believe, and the conversations are just a new kind of conversation. And so I'm learning, and that's okay. Yeah. So keep praying with me. Yes, checking in on me. We got this, laughing with me. That helps us, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

All right, well, this has been a good conversation, but before we end our conversation, we have the somehow together question of the day, where we take our take a jar of questions, pull one out, and ask the question of the day. And today's question is what is something small that someone can do that shows that they really get you?

SPEAKER_02 55:46

I don't even know how to put this. I thought, I thought about this and how to articulate this, and I don't even know how to do it. I love when somebody sees something, and it doesn't even have to be big. And so I'm not even saying like, go out and buy me this. Um, but when they see anything that reminds them of me in any way, it could be a it could be a text, it could be a weird little random video, it could be like a weird little trinket of some sort, just something random and and weird that they're like, oh, Miranda would like to do it. Miranda likes it.

unknown 56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

And they send it to me. Because I I do tend, I we talk all the time about how much we like to laugh and you know all that kind of stuff. And so it's not so much the tangible item that I can hold, it's the fact that they thought about me and sent me something to to let me to let me know that. That shows that they that they see me and and they get me on some level and they're able to to to encourage me in such a weird and random way. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I'm like, I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah, it's weird and it's quirky, and I like weird and quirky things. So that's okay. Yeah. How about you? What are what is something that something small that someone can do that shows that they really get you?

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Oh, this is easy. They bring me a Diet Coke. It's it's it's best if it's from McDonald's because they have the best fountain drinks, but also I like Diet Coke, like a fountain drink with pebble ice from like 7-Eleven or somewhere like we're eating real specifics. I know. And I'm like, You're gonna show up with like 12 Diet Cokes of Pebble ice, you know. Uh, but people bring me Diet Cokes on a regular and I just feel really seen. And I'm like, thank you very much. You know, um, I have had somebody make me a Diet Coke can cake. I've had somebody make me uh Christmas lights with Diet Coke cans like strung on to the trick the Christmas tree lights. Uh huh. Uh and I've had um somebody give me a mask back when we were wearing that during COVID with Diet Coke on it. You know, people know that I like Diet Coke and I feel very seen. Yeah. Anyway, that's awesome. Well, it's been a great conversation. So somehow we're gonna keep learning, learning somehow together. Thank you, everybody. We'll see you next time. Bye, guys. Thanks for spending time with us today. If this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone you want to help feel a little less alone. And as you go through your week, ask yourself, where in my life do I need togetherness right now? Until next time, we are somehow together.