SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, welcome to episode two of the Russ and John podcast. We did episode one if you haven't had it. They'll pop a graphic up at some point so you can subscribe to it. It's not on my normal platforms, but you can get this platform uh podcast all the time. And we have the privilege this week of being able to do it in studio together rather than on X spaces like we normally do. So glad you're with us. We opened it up for questions today. You can't play media on a podcast, so we can't do like a check the news type thing. But I figured we'd use this as an opportunity to uh answer whatever questions you have about the Bible. And on the way in, we were talking a little bit. Um there's an older preacher who told me who's, you know, overseen close to a thousand ministers, if not over a thousand ministers. His wife said, We've seen people come back from everything affairs, homosexuality, drugs, you name it. The only thing we've never seen anybody come back from is if they start messing with the Bible being inspired. If the if the devil can get them to where, well, I don't care what the Bible says, I believe this. So I can't tell you, and then we were talking about ministries on the way in, that are kind of going south right now because they're not solid doctrinally. And when I say solid doctrinally, I don't mean to get a good doctrinal understanding so that you just spend all your time on social media arguing with people about doctrine, but for your own life, Jesus said, He that builds his life on my word and my teachings. So I want you to write that in the comments if you would. My word and my teachings. I don't enjoy hearing people say we need to trust Jesus. That's such a Catholic-y thing to say. That can mean like a million things to a million people. Trust Jesus, I just whoever he is, I'm trusting him. Build your life on what his word says. And anywhere you read in the Bible where your life is out of alignment with the Bible, bring your life into alignment with it. Pastor Russell might know. I I can't remember who it was that said it. But one guy said, um, when you don't read the Bible, the Bible reads you. So when you read it, the Bible says about itself in Hebrews, it it searches your inward parts and divides join join and marrow. Like it goes to the deepest parts of you. And then you can do what almost everybody else does and just make an excuse. Yeah, I know, I know the Bible says to honor Sunday, make it the Lord's Day, but I have to work. I know the Bible says, uh, I don't believe in tithing. And just make a way for you to live your same exact American life or Canadian life, and um pretend you're Christian, but your life is actually, yeah, you might make heaven. You may make heaven. No guarantees. But it depends on how much of the word you subvert and if you want to make those, take, take those chances. But your life is gonna be tossed around by the winds and waves of life because it is not rooted on the word of God. And we were talking on the way in. There's like there's pastors that preach, they're great preachers, they they have churches, they're shaky on the Bible. They don't, they'll compromise on the Bible for money. They'll cut that they're they they don't, they they have not built their ministry on the word. The word makes everything solid, it makes you a solid person. It's why Baptist churches generally are way more solid than hyper-charismatic, presence-driven. You know, I don't, when you hear a church say that we're presence-driven here, you know, I would, I'd be word-driven because presence is whatever you want it to be. That's not something to build on. Everything has to be built on the Bible. I would be interested, I know I haven't asked any questions, but I'd be interested to hear what your take take is because that's why we're taking your questions. It's not just what you can hear us give you answers, or you know, sometimes I can answer in a comical way and make you laugh. It's what it's lining your life up with the Bible because if you do that, your life cannot be shaken. What would you add to it?

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah, I think that's uh one of the reasons why, you know, one of the primary uh heresies that we battle in the modern era is deconstruction. You know, deconstruction, which is um uh uh really like a system-wide critique of the word or uh uh a redefinition of the word or a renegotiation of the word um is that primary uh Trojan horse, I think that that's most prevalent in in our generation today. Because once you begin to either doubt or or diminish the word, you become an image maker instead of an image bearer. And so that's you know, going all the way back to the Decalogue in the Old Testament, you know, this is one of the things that the Hebrew children are forbidden from doing. Don't make God in your image, don't make gods of graven images. And so when people lose the foundation of the word, it it opens the door for any amount of heretical belief uh or uh teaching because you're detaching yourself from historic uh Orthodox Christianity. So if the word no longer has the power to be the guardrails, you know, like we say often, for every mile of road, there's two miles of ditch. So you've got the ditch on the left and and the ditch on the right. And so in in order to stay uh uh you know on that road without having a collapse of self or um having you know some sort of wacky theology that gets you pointed in the wrong direction, uh people have to have an allegiance to an unchanging standard, the canon. Uh it it's something that points you in the direction that you should go that you'll never depart from it. And so um you're you're you're you're seeing that today. It's not just a debate over what translation is best, or um, you know, like you're talking about the difference between maybe the Pentecostal movement or or or some of the some of the more like Southern Baptist um uh you know friends we have, but churches who retain a high allegiance to the word, like scripture says Lord honors the word uh even above his own name. When you have churches or denominations that have a high standard uh uh for for the word of God, um it seems like they are able to develop a defense against apostasy in ways that it ensures their longevity that is a lot different than some of the mainline denominations who little by little have essentially detached themselves or deconstructed themselves from word-based theology, word-based lives. When when you detach from you know word-based, then all of a sudden um uh either you know cultural uh or political correctness or empathy or um the need to, you know, uh uh uh try to communicate, you know, some level of tolerance or whatever. When anything replaces the standard of the word, it never starts out as like overnight heretical, but that's always where it ends up.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

And so whether that's you're you're rejecting the um sexual ethic of scripture, you no longer hold um a high fidelity towards um the lordship of Jesus, you get away from Trinitarian theology, whatever it is, if the word is no longer the standard, then it's kind of like whoever has the best idea or whoever's most convincing or whatever seems most culturally appropriate becomes the replacement theological truth, and then you end up with these denominations who, if their founders were alive today, would burn down these denominations because it's it's just so crazy where they've arrived.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yes, and and the thing is, you know, you can have your own ideas and they work. They work in peacetime, but they don't work in a wartime. It's like if our ministry right now was built on selling t-shirts, you know, people have extra money to donate and enjoy getting a t-shirt, but we don't teach sowing and reaping. That's why you see churches make huge changes when there's trouble. You know, they were always proud that they only had a box at the back. We don't even say anything about tithes and offerings at this church, bro. Then COVID hits in 2020 and it's panic mode because nobody's giving it the box in the back anymore, and they have to teach on the Bible. It makes it anybody can prosper in a first world country in peacetime. But when you operate according to the Bible, it makes it where it doesn't matter which ways the winds of the economy blow or whatever's happening in the world. You've built what you're doing on the foundation of the Bible. Can you find the scripture for me? Um, in the Amplified Classic, a time will come when men will no longer listen to right teaching and will seek, uh gather unto themselves teachers who tell them what their itching ears want to hear. And then while she's looking that up, 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17. This is uh the 16 fundamental truths of the assemblies of God, which are great. They're the the original ones until they started amending them uh at the bottom from some moron that's never been in the ministry in the year 2000, but like the ones PC Nelson wrote, that's the reason you would think, you would think if you were gonna write the number one doctrine, what would it be? Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but it's not. Because how do you know Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven and the only begotten Son of God? From the Bible. So if you don't make number one the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture, you've got nothing. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction in righteousness. Keep that up. That's a great one. All scripture is given. So I want you to write that in the comments if you would. And I know some people are listening to my podcast, but for those that are watching live, all scripture is given by inspiration of God. Not the red letters. You know, I'm a red letter Christian, I do what Jesus said. Well, then you you don't know Christianity. There's not four books in the Bible, there's 66 books, and all scripture is given by inspiration of God. That's where you get people, you know, just preach the gospel. No, teach the whole counsel of God's word. Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable. Write that down. Is profitable. Meaning when you understand the Bible brings profit to life. When you bring your life, I I hope, I hope everybody won't miss what I'm saying. When you bring your life into alignment with God's word, it does not bring you backwards, it brings you forwards. Why do you miss church on Sunday for work? I'm not saying this as a pastor. You can dig me up in 2016 talking about this when I had no church for anybody to attend. Why do you, I'm talking to you personally, miss church on Sunday? Because I have to work. What does that mean? What are you saying without saying? I feel if I don't go to work and go to church instead, I'll lose money because that's how I get paid. You don't understand that it is impossible, you're losing money not going to church. The blessing is in bringing your life in full alignment with the word of God, not when you can and your schedule permits. And that's where people, that's why you have to have all these pastors preach on what do you do when you're not seeing God come through? And what are you what the hell are you talking about? Not seeing God come through. No, you're not seeing it happen because you're not doing the whole thing. God's not slow. We don't have a big, dumb, slow God. Heard somebody say last night, he's seldom early, but he's always on time. I don't know, man. Before your storehouse is filled with grain does not mean he comes through right on time. It means there's a surplus. You might not start off that way. You despise not that they have small beginnings, but it doesn't stay like that. Pastor Russell started in a barn. He's not in a barn. He'll probably have to build barns to house his uh landscaping equipment and stuff that takes care of his church properties. Because you where you start is irrelevant. Thou anointest my head with oil, my cup runs over. So until you're convinced that keeping God's word brings profit, you'll always struggle to do it. But what do you know how many consultants told Truett Cathy to you need to open on Sundays? It's okay, you know, um, we'll be closed till church gets out. You know, God doesn't expect you to give him the whole day and not to tithe. Now, now I'll I'd be surprised if his son keeps it going, because it looks like it's it's headed in the other direction. But what made it the most profitable fast food chain in America by far? He he decided, I'm gonna do what the Bible says. It makes no sense to be closed, you're closed 16.6% more than all other of your competitors, and you blow them out of the water. It's not like God made the 16% back up. They're worth like three times more than their competitor, five times more than some of their other competitors, and they're much younger as a fast food chain. Anywhere you listen to God's word, it brings you higher, not lower. And I'm not bringing myself as like the shining example, but I'm telling you, as a pastor, I waded through all that. Pastors, you know, preachers don't have to tithe. The tithe is for the Levites. I decided I'm I'm not carving out an excuse for me in any area of life. I'm gonna read that Bible like nobody talked me out of any of it. And I'm gonna do every single part. And I'm I'm flying. Pastor Russ is flying. Anybody that does what the Bible says, Jesus didn't say he that hears my teaching and believes it. He said, he that hears my teaching and doeth it. Believing in prosperity doesn't bring you prosperity. Doing the covenant demands of prosperity, diligent work, tithing, offering, um, um, building churches. Why does our church, unlike most churches, why do we do evangelism and reaching out? It's part of the commands of the Bible. I'm not doing some of them. Anywhere I can find in that thing that I'm to do something, I'm gonna do it whether I feel like it, whether it makes sense budget-wise, and the more you do it, the more it brings profit. Profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. Keep it there. Everybody write down the word instruction. Otherwise, the only instruction you're getting is from your family that's dysfunctional. 90 some percent of you. You know? You know what I would say if I were you when your mom or whoever says I don't think we need to tithe? Who cares what you think? You no one in this family's crested a household of $100,000 in the greatest country in the world with a $32 trillion GDP. Why would I give two poos what you think about what should be done with money? That you can talk about generational curses all you want. All it is is repeating cycles from making the same decisions your your parents and grandparents made. So somebody has to break out of the mold, and when you do, your family rises up to pull you back. No, we don't we don't do that. I don't think you who cares what you think. Are you a billionaire? Which hockey team do you own? What publishing company do you own? How many aircraft? Where's your fleet of planes? So forgive me if I'm gonna do it Abraham's way rather rather than Jim, Uncle Jim's way. Or whatever. All scripture is given by inspiration of God. It's profitable for doctrine and for reproof, for correction, for instruction and righteousness. Uh 17. That the men of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Means God decks you out and loads you down to carry out everything He wants you to do. What's the one in Amplified Classic? It might be in the same ballpark, yeah, one chapter later. Now, here's now. For the uh let me see two. Preach the word. So what is God's answer to apostasy and false teaching? Not argue with Cody Jones. The private plan I used was my family. You should jettison the chemical toilet over their house or trailer. Preach the word. Keep your sense. This is a great scripture. Preach the word. This is the what to do in the last days to combat false teaching and all that. Not argue with them or debate. Do what we're gonna do tonight. What Pastor Russ does all week, every week, what I do. This is what God said to do. Herald and preach the word. Keep your sense of urgency. So not just preach, preach with a sense of urgency. I mean, do you really have to fly to all these places? That's called a sense of urgency. Stand by, be at hand and ready. Whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable, whether it's convenient or inconvenient, whether it's welcome or unwelcome. I mean, so all the pastors that are watching, we're at a very hard place. Paul said, who cares? Preach when it's favorable, preach when it's not favorable. Um you as a you as preacher of the word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong. That's a scripture. You as preacher of the word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong, and convince them. That's another important thing for ministry. Rate that in the comments. Convince them. So it's not just, I'm saying the word, and if you don't like it, tough luck. No. You have a job to persuade people. You're not doing it in a way where it's, well, I know, and you don't know, and tough. No. You should try to turn them. That's what it means with he that wins souls is wise. There was no soul winning to Christ in Proverbs where that's written. It means it takes wisdom to get somebody to see things your way. Rebuking, correcting, warning, urging, and encouraging them being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching. You never stop. For the time is coming when people will not tolerate sound and wholesome instruction. But having ears itching for something pleasing and gratifying, they will gather to themselves one teacher after another. That's some of you watching. You have no home church. You just go wherever. They have a worship mate here, and then we like to this guy's a prophetic ministry, so we'll go there sometime. You don't you don't sit somewhere and let somebody reprove and correct you. You like to just swing your arms to worship music and work up a nice sweat in your laundry day outfit that you wear to your charismatic church, but nothing changes. For the time is coming when people will not tolerate sound and wholesome instruction, but having ears itching for something pleasing and gratifying, they will gather themselves, one teacher after another, to a considerable number. Chosen to set, I'm telling you right now, those of you that are watching, and I'm saying this because I care about the people that are watching. If I didn't care, then I won't, I wouldn't do it at all. If you can't answer the question who your pastor is and where you go to church, you you're you are not even like a level one Christian. You're like an orphaned wandering around, exposed in the spirit, bonehead, that just goes from worship night to prayer gathering to whatever. But you you don't serve anywhere. You're not plugged in, you don't tithe anywhere. You you don't have a church. You should have a pastor. In that day I will give you shepherds that will watch over your souls. And a lot of you can't answer that question. And there's no good churches in my area, it's not an answer. Move. Yeah, move. Exactly. Why did you again seek ye first the kingdom of God does not mean choose a place to live, find a job, get your kids in school, and then see if there's a decent church, and if not, use that as an excuse to be lightly plugged into church. You know, and and and then I'll see the Florida Pastor Russell because I know he's gonna jump in too, which I'm glad. Um, your kids are gonna go to hell on the track that you're going. You know, I know that that stings a little bit to hear, but when you see your 14-year-old seated during worship service with his arms crossed, because you're taking him to the crappy church that's closest to your house two times a month, that they're not gonna have it. You had it? You had an encounter with God, and you owe it to them to have an encounter with God and to be raised in a good church. Why are you making Jesus the last thing in their life? And you can teach them whatever you want. You missing church, every time you have to work or there's a soccer tournament, you are you are teaching them as their father or mother that God is in fifth, eighth place. You have finals coming up, so we're gonna stay home and study. Yeah, I'm sure they're hitting the books at 9 a.m. on Sunday. Correct. Fresh out of bed. You if you value your family, you should make sure you're not one of these people chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the airs they hold. That's what people do. You you like drinking? You don't listen when people preach about the uh alcohol and the warnings God gives about it. You just go find a church where they drink. Foster the heirs that they hold. You don't like tithing, go find a church where they also don't say you have to tithe. Never let the word correct you. You know, I had a guy come up to me last year. Were you preaching about me when you said that? Well, church of all, I didn't even know who he was. But you know what I said to him? So what if I was? Right. Even though I wasn't. Are you too big to be corrected? You can't be rebuked anymore. Who who cares? Who cares if you were being rebuked? I don't have 30 people in my church, neither does Pastor Russell. I don't, I'm not going up into the pulpit with an axe to grind against some family. I don't even know what the heck's been going on. I had one couple come up to me two years ago. They said, I'm sure you heard that we had a domestic incident at our house. My wife and I got in a fight and the cops had to come. I said, brother, I got in 45 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I came to the platform. I don't know anything that went on this week. But but is that your reaction? To foster the errors they hold. Oh, they're talking about me. Let's go to a church where, let's go to a church where I'll never hear anything that will make me change. Then I can blame God for being slow and he's not there when we want him. All I know is I'm doing everything right, and that big, dumb, slow God we have takes it takes his time. We don't understand. No. Hear the word and let the word correct you. Let's look at the next part if I was there. They all and will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions, which is how the how you end up. Why some of you want to argue about Nephilim, the Book of Enoch? Yeah, because you won't go down to the basic how to run your marriage, family, children, make money. So you what do you think about the book of Enoch? What do you think about it? Why don't you why don't you like get something from the Bible that'll actually make you a productive human being? So I I I said enough. I'm talking like a TBN talk show host that doesn't let the guests get any words in. So go ahead with whatever got stirred up in you when I kept talking over you.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

The the thing that irritates me to literally no end is when you have people who are plugged in, they're a part of something life-giving, whether it's your church or or another one in your area, and then they'll pick up and move you know in the middle of the night, and then you'll get a message on Facebook or or Instagram a month later going, Yeah, you know, we had another opportunity, or a job came up, or, you know, this was better weather in this city. We moved here and now it's been a month or two months or three months, and we still haven't been able to find a good church. Would you consider planting a campus here in my city, or can you give me a recommendation on where I should go to church? You know, it it at least from my perspective, and I had this perspective before I was in ministry, that maybe should have been a question you thought about prior to picking up your family and moving. When you make something a a secondary priority or way down the list, hey, if we ever get around to it, you know, if I ever felt the call of God to to leave vocational ministry and you know go back to politics and move to another town, it it wouldn't be where's the closest Chick-fil-A, where's the closest, you know, uh do they have a good music scene? Do they've got do they got fun activities for the kids to be a part of? The number one thing that would drive me to living in any number of different metroplexes in this nation or around the world is the quality of a church that I would be interested in going to and making sure the family was in uh, you know, every Sunday at a bare minimum. You know, the way we grew up is like if you went to church only every Sunday is because you were backslidden.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

You know, like that was the bare minimum.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Like a C tier Christian.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Right. You know, you had Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. Well your life was built around the ecosystem of church and Christian community. And so there's such like a low view of church, a low view of the importance of um, you know, the gathering of God's people. And I've never once seen, not not like I kind of saw it once work, I have never once seen it work out well where somebody reduces the importance of a spirit-filled full gospel church and the role that it plays in the development of their family or their kids, and ever seen it produce anything but disastrous diminishing returns. The kids end up in bondage, church isn't a priority by the time they're leaving the house out of high school, going into college, in quarter one. They're, you know, uh sleeping with their boyfriend, sleeping with their girlfriend, they're involved in the uh occult, they're messing around with drugs and alcohol and partying, they're overdosing, they're addicted, all of a sudden, you know, they're uh they don't know what gender they are, they're confused about the world. The cult, I mean, you name it, it it I have never once seen it work out for somebody in the positive where you've deprioritized the church of God um or the word of God, and then seen it not reap, you know, like like really uh damning results in the next generation. It reminds me of that king, you know, in the Old Testament who says, At least I'll have peace in my lifetime. Right. You know, who cares what happens to the kids? At least I'll have peace in my lifetime. And that's exactly what happened. He had peace in his lifetime. By the time his kids had ascended to the throne, it was like they were in bondage and the enemy was attacking. And so for me, it's like, and I get, you know, people have other pressures, and they, you know, the Pacific Northwest is really expensive, and you know, I don't like the weather in Pittsburgh, and I want to okay, fine, but when when this becomes like your 17th thing that you prioritize, you know, I want to make sure I'm living close to the TJ Maxx, and you know, my wife really likes, you know, the shopping that's available within the zip code that we're headed to, and then you you roll you wake up one day and go, oh yeah, I guess I forgot, you know, to ask the question. Is there a good quality spirit-filled church here? And then you make it either the pastor from the church that you left, their responsibility to try to plant a camp. So now I'm just gonna have to follow you around the nation wherever you decide every 36 months that you gotta move. Now I just gotta follow you around the nation. But don't, I I I would just not take it lightly or treat it lightly. Um, the role and the importance of and and the spiritual formation of a solid Christian community. The other thing that I was thinking about as you were you were talking about this is what you know Amos the Prophet says, where he says, um uh there will come a time where there's famine in the land. And it won't be a famine for, you know, a hunger for food or a thirst for water, but famine for the word of God. That they'll search high and low, but but they won't be able to find it. And I think about in in our era with all the things that are happening, whether it be uh, you know, the the COVID stuff happening, the political stuff happening, um, uh, you know, just about every day on the podcast. It's like we're we're we're we're highlighting things or or people or movements that are going astray one direction or another. There is a famine in uh uh the the world the world today, even in the church today, for full gospel, anchored to the word of God, not compromising, and uh I'm gonna believe everything that the Bible gives me permission to believe. I'm not I'm not going anti-gifts, I'm not going anti-blessing, I'm not going against healing, uh, I'm not, you know, buying into uh you know what what the the World Economic Forum is gonna say, you know, don't talk about healing, don't talk about giving, don't talk about tongues. You know, like that there is a there is a famine and people are starving. And when when you're in a famine, if you ain't getting fed on the right stuff, you're you your appetite is going to be satiated eating the wrong stuff. It is going to have disastrous generational consequences. I'm not saying this in a way of going, everybody just needs to move to Seattle and attend pursuit, but I'm from an area, you know, we just passed an income tax. Uh people are always complaining about the weather uh because of liberal bad public policy. A lot of the downtown areas are taken over by the homelessness crisis and drugs. And in and so I get, like, I'm not trying to say, close your eyes and pretend that it Seattle or the Pacific Northwest is the easiest place to live. But uh I I would just you there has to be something else that factors into your decision-making process before you abandon ship, head somewhere else, and then complain that you can't find a good church to get your family in. There's got there's gotta be something else.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Next to the homeless encampment in downtown Seattle and attend pursuit before I would live in Dana Point, California. Is there any good churches around here? Right. You know what I mean? People get it wrong. They don't understand the value there is of going to a strong church. Even, I don't know who was in our church on uh uh in Fort Worth on Sunday. We have very few cancer reports ever from people in our congregation. I mean, for all the people, 2,000 a Sunday. When I grew up, there was a wall of prayer requests of people that were in the hospital and stuff. We've had four funerals in four years. You know why? Because of all the people that got healed in a service like Sunday in Fort Worth where there was a strong anointing and people were getting called out and prayed for and getting healed, everyone was getting healed. My son, attend unto my words, for they are life under your flesh and health under your bones. There's a there's like a washing for your body, your mind, everything when you're in the manifest presence of God. And you get, you know, I'm I'm not a hard-hearted person. You're not allowed to be in the ministry as a Christian, but you when you hear, hey, when's Jonathan doing a miracle service again? My wife has cancer, and uh, and it's a Christian. Okay, why do you have to come see me to get prayer? Where do you go to church? You know, well, where we go, there, you know. I think the pastor believes in it. I've I've asked him to watch you and wrestle before. He said that he he did and that he liked it. Bull crap he did. He just said whatever he has to say to get you not to leave. He doesn't preach. You have chosen to root yourself in a place where there's no healing anointing, no prosperity anointing. Why do you do that? Why, when you need a miracle, does it necessitate a six-hour drive to another church? Why have you not decided to plug in where the miracles flow, which is the Bible way, like a tree planted by the water. Not a tree that's uprooted, drying out, and being destroyed by termites, and then gets emergency life flighted to water and try to get it back to life, and then go back and throw it in the desert again. Don't do that with your life.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Yeah, and there's there's somebody commenting on the socialists. You guys are telling people to move and then critical of them for moving. No, what what we're saying? No, I think you have no ability to understand basic English. Right. No one said that at any point. Right. Well, what what what we're saying is, you know, for me, who a person who pastors in the Pacific Northwest, you shouldn't pack up and move halfway across the country just for a job opportunity without ever first asking the question, what are the spiritual ramifications and impacts if I'm not going to be staying plugged into a healthy local church? And there's more than just, you know, revival today or pursuit that exists as spirit-filled healthy local churches. But I I'm not a referral service to people's bad decision making when they never considered the importance of how a church plays a massive role in the formation, not just of their lives, but the lives of their kids and their family members. And I think it's also important to say, because I think you and I both model this, like, this is not just us as pastors giving advice to, you know, people or feedback or perspective. This is something that that that we employ. Now, I know that there's two angles to this. The first is that Paul says in preaching, you'll save yourself. So, like, I'll preach myself happy. I'll preach myself into anointing. I'll preach myself into conviction because the same word that that that God will put in me for somebody else, it it comes back and it does work for me as well. But like multiple times a year, um, not because I don't have anything else to do. I'm getting on a plane uh and I'm showing up at your meetings, I'm showing it to other people to sit under the word, to be encouraged, to get stirred up. You know, it's not because we're not doing 18 services a week and you know, I'm preaching most of them, and you know, these types of things. It's because this is important to me, it's important to the development of your life. You know, Amos says there's famine, but the solution is the word. So word breaks famine. Either you'll have famine or you'll have the word. But but where you have the word, you will not have famine. And so, even like you're talking about, hey, you know, we don't have the wall of everyone who has cancer, let's just keep praying for them. But the only time they ever get off the wall is when they die. Nobody ever gets healed. You don't have that at your church. I don't have that at my church. Why? Because the word breaks the famine. So, you know, the word, and now all of a sudden miracles is happening, blessing, prosperity is flowing. It it it attracts uh uh, you know, what what what the word says we have permission to believe for.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Okay, coming again. You're the same guy. You're encouraging people to be transient. No, we're not. We're saying build your life around a church. I don't know how you can't understand that. We're gonna say keep moving, but you should not be without a church. Your name's David. Send us your address so I can send you a family pack of tampons. Sorry you're on your period, brother David. So we got 34 questions. We're gonna answer them today. I think everybody with that moron could understand what we were saying. So let's take question number one. You're weak, you're out of control, and you become an embarrassment to yourself and everybody else. What has worked best for you in helping new believers get rooted in church long term? I'll let you take that one.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

We like coffee and donuts in the lobby. Uh we do board games um on Saturday night. We do drag queen story hour Monday, um, gender-affirming therapy with Andy Stanley on Tuesday. We hand out crack pipes on Wednesday. We do, you know, there's just a lot.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Um I'll be honest, I didn't know you did any of that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah, we're, you know, people think we're not active in the community, and we are. You know what's funny, you were at the Spokane building um this, and I will answer the question, but you you know it's funny, we're at the uh the building this week um in in Spokane here, and when we got in, uh, and and you know, like the building is in process of getting remodeled, is getting better, but it's still rough. You know, it's still it's it's we're we're getting there. It's an old building that nobody's cared about in a long time, so so we're we're putting some love and carrying it and getting it up. But one of the things that they had outside, which I'll show you the before and after pictures, it you know, it wasn't a community garden. They called it a community garden. You know, what it looked like was a dumping ground for like heroin needles and and crack pipes, and it maybe had a few things that used to be flowers. Well, the first thing that we did when we got in there is cleared that out. It was right in front of the church on the church property because it was just you know, people are putting shopping carts there. It's it's nasty. We cleared it out, and uh, you know, it's always like the three like you know, Jezebel witches from like the coven in the community who care most about the community garden. Oh, we got lit up. It was like, how dare you take out our community garden? What were you growing? Crack pipes? Like what what what are you talking about? It wasn't a community garden, you know. Uh, well, they you know, they really cared about, you know, I should read, I should read you all the Reddit threads that have started about, you know, pursuits will end. But you know, the last church here, they really cared about the community because they had a garden and they're here and they got their long lines and loud music and young kids lined up. Yeah, because you know, every night you've been here, dozens and dozens of people have been responding to the altar for first-time salvations every night. People are getting saved, things are beginning to shift. And so, you know, when I look at new believers getting rooted uh into a community, uh, me and me and uh uh Shuttles was talking about this the other day, uh, and I actually ripped this off of uh one of my friends, Nathan Finocchio. He said, um, the more uh midweek quote unquote, you know, discipleship type stuff that you have to host, the less that your Sunday morning exists as an effective tool for developing and discipling people. And and so, you know, there's gonna be people who have like different, you know, opinions on that. I get that there are some things that you can do midweek, you know, like Bible school. You're not doing that on Sunday morning. That's a midweek thing. But, you know, um, when people so devalue the main primary Sunday service, then then they have to have Monday Bible. What do you mean? What was your Sunday not a good enough teaching from Scripture? Did you not even mention Scripture? What do you know, finger painting your theology? What do you what are we talking about? Well, you know, Monday, that's when we really go deep. Why aren't you going deep on Sundays? I agree. And so but sorry.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Oh, sorry, I didn't know it fell. That's a great point. Um I why do you not go deep on Sunday? It's like we're gonna have this and that. Why not hit it hard on Sunday? You have everybody there. You you all know there's only a fraction that are coming back midweek or to the special things. Treat your Sunday like it's the main event and let it rip. Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

And they they you your your um and and we have just like revival today has, you know, we're gonna have tracks, we're gonna have the new believers classes, we have uh something called uh uh DNA, which is gonna tell about the history of the church, get people ready for baptism, membership. You know, I I'm not I'm not you know against those types of things. But the less effective your Sunday morning is, the more busy your Monday through Saturday is. That's right. Uh and so the the primary mo mo avenue of discipleship is that Sunday morning service. Why? Because you're giving them the opportunity to worship, you're giving them the opportunity to give, you're giving them the opportunity to sit under the teaching of the word, you're giving them the opportunity to respond, you're giving them the opportunity to serve. These are how people are developed. And so when you have to break all of those things out midweek, then you end up saying things like this Hey, um, our Holy Spirit night, that's really Mondays. That's not on Sundays. Right. Why? Because you just took that out of the service. Right. And Tuesdays, that's if people want to go deep in the Word, because you know, we just do surface level on Sundays. And you so weaken the main thing. Uh, and you know, what was the 101 or 201 or 301 track, you know, in the book of uh Mark, you know, for the disciple? That that is a Western invent and Western invention. And I'm not saying that we can't incorporate that. I want every new mom.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

That should be an accoutrement. But but it can have this feel like it does it many places, like, hey, I know you're here on Sunday. This really isn't anything. If you really want to be part of the church, you need to be in our growth track on Tuesday or whatever. The growth track should just help form the momentum wave that's getting kicked from Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Right. And when people um, you know, and again, this might be controversial or, you know, uh other people might disagree with you.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Try to steer clear of controversy.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah. But it's like, you know, even I'm actually leery, you know, of people who will show up and they'll say things like this, you know, like, man, what does this um church really do for, you know, community? And and it's like, oh, I'm I'm so I didn't I didn't know the church existed to help weird people make friends.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

What are you talking about? There's there's there are 5,000 people here on Sunday. What are you talking about? You didn't have no time to find you you didn't meet anybody? You didn't say, you know what do the Seattle Seahawks do to help people find community? What what what are you talking? You know, that there's no Seattle Seahawks small groups that are happening on Tuesday night to help people find community to sit around and talk about the Seahawks.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

No, the game's the main thing.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

The game if you meet people there. Right, because because there's something about and you you would say, well, how well how does how is discipleship being accomplished? Okay, well, if I'm going to a Seahawks game and I see everybody wearing a jersey, next week I'm showing up in a jersey. And then I'm recognizing, hey, during halftime, everybody is chanting, they're singing these songs, they're going to these vendors, they're doing you, you know, it's the atmosphere and and the engagement of the room that does that discipling type work in your heart and in your life. And so when I have people show up and they go, you know, I you know, I really like the church, but what are you what are you really doing for a community? This church really has to have small groups. What are you really doing for discipleship? You know, I go to Sundays because, you know, that's really what, but I really like the midweek stuff. Okay, well then you don't really like the church.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Because the anchor thing here is the Sunday experience because it gives the most applicable open door for the discipleship of the person. And I freaking pisses me off the devaluing of the we gather on Sundays because that's the day that Christ rose from the dead. Church, we've been doing that for 2000 years. That is when we gather. Right. Uh, and it's not that we're not gonna do other stuff midweek, but that is supplemental. It is not substitutionary. And so I would say if you're a pastor or your ministry leader, you should be aware of people who they will go uh like every Tuesday night to like the discipleship class, but they'll only show up about once or twice a week on on uh once or or twice a month on a Sunday morning. Right. That's not a person who is committed to the direction that the church is headed in. And so what do we do? I, you know, I I I'm not coming over to this person's house holding their hand, you know, showing them a coloring book, you know, for the book of Acts and walking through. We have other tracks, we have other programs. You were advertising our ministry college last night, which I appreciate, and you helped us launch that, of course. We we have other tracks, but at the end of the day. Help slash forced. Helpslash forced. But but it's the it's the Sunday, if your Sunday mornings are effective, it will be and it should be the primary tool of disciple. You know, if tomorrow we had a thousand students sign up for the ministry college, I am not a ministry college that has a church. Right. I'm a church that has a ministry college. If 10,000 sign up for our elementary school, I am not an elementary school that has a church. I'm a church that has an elementary school. Keep the main thing, the main thing. If your Sundays suck, it does not matter what you do on your Monday through Saturday, it's not it is not enough to replace an effective, spirit-filled, full gospel discipling service on a Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Well said. Next question. When it comes to serving, is there a line you draw for who is able to serve? How do you approach lifestyle standards? Again, I'm gonna defer to the person who's been pastoring much longer than me.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

I mean, yeah, people have to pass uh uh you know a basic background check. You know, if if you're a child molester or or you know a pedophile, then you're you're you know probably straight to superchurch. Yeah, you're probably not you we'll let you lead a small group on Epstein Island, but you're not you know gonna be leading you know the kids' ministry here. You know, so I think there's some basic legal stuff where where you're you're just staying smart and you're staying aware. But you know, even we were talking about this the other day with even some of the people who have helped out on our security teams and things of that nature. Um, they they don't have to come in being the super saved, born again. Uh I've been praying in tongues for 10 years straight, four hours a day, in order for them to, you know, help direct traffic in the parking lot. Uh people want to be engaged, people want to be involved, you know, but there's different, there, there, there's different levels. You know, somebody who is uh standing on your stage uh helping in a primary role lead worship, that's gonna come with a different standard uh for from a volunteer perspective than uh, hey, um Roger, uh who's uh been at the church now for uh two weeks and uh you know he's in process. Maybe he's in the early stages of his sanctification, uh, but you know, he might be uh chewing tobacco with a spit cup, uh, but he's out in the parking lot in 12 degree weather helping direct people in uh on where to park. So I don't I don't have like this purity litmus test as it pertains to nobody could help serve in this environment if. Unless that you know they are they've got the PhD in Pentecostal theology and you know they fast, you know, four days a week and and things like that. Different levels are gonna mandate different, you know, from a volunteer perspective, different levels of service and leadership are gonna mandate different levels of sanctification, maturity, and and uh development. Um, but you know, for me, I think about church engagement as like a pool. You got a shallow end and you got a deep end. Now, there are some people who are gonna come to your church, I call them pre-cooked. They've already been in really good type church environments. Maybe their church closed down, or they moved to your city, and maybe they moved to your city because you've had this happen quite a bit. They want to go to your church. Great. They're coming in pre-cooked, you know. So they they they have they they have art, it's not, you know, lay hands on no man quickly. They are already known. It's likely from a partner church. They're coming in, it's the deep end. But most people are gonna start in the shallow.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Your pastor calls sometimes and is like, hey, just so you know, there's a family that got transferred uh to Pittsburgh. I just want to tell you they're great. And like, yeah, so you have somebody vouching for them.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Right. And then they they they come in with it's like, you know, they're pre-qualified, you know. If you're trying to buy a house, they they they're already qualified at this level. And then other people, you're you're you're working them in. And so, you know, for me, I tell people this is not a North Korean slave camp. You not everybody here has to serve a man. You don't have to do anything you want. You you show up, you can leave when you want, you can attend as much as you want, but you you know, you're in charge of your own harvest. Oh God, just help me have a good harvest this year. Help help me have a great sized harvest this year. God's not in charge of the size of your harvest, you are. For whatever a man sows, he's gonna reap. So you get out what you put in. So I don't operate with this, like, uh, you know, everybody here who is a member, you must serve, and we're gonna check in on it. You must serve a minimum of 12 hours a month. No, you different people aren't in different seasons. But I'm not one of these guys who um is uh is going, hey, you know, I was, you know, dude, I saw, you know, Larry from the parking lot and he was, you know, drinking a Dolorita at the Applebee's last week, and you know, he's been serving in the parking lot. I I just don't really know if that's a good representation of the revival today volunteer crew. You know, I'm just I'm just glad that dude is showing up in the parking lot because he hadn't been in church in 20 years and his God is working on his heart, and he's a dude, and dudes want to serve, they want to do something. You know, my perspective would be let that guy guys God is working on it.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

So I agree, and I I feel um, sir, I don't know that I could articulate it if somebody challenged me on it, but I feel like serving in church is a discipleship. It's like you start valuing God's house, whatever you're doing. Yeah, I mean, I like that people serve in parking. You know, not everybody's an extrovert and they don't want to greet and they don't want to speak or open in prayer, but they really enjoy the parking part. And like now it's their church. Right. It's not like a church I go to. It's like that they take the guys that plowed out the driveway during the snowstorm. And, you know, I like that. And I feel like that starts making people like that's my church. I'm with you. And and it'll start making people, it's weird. You wouldn't think there's a connection between shoveling a church parking lot out and not drinking anymore. But it it does start to, okay, I'm really gonna do this thing now. And I know I I know I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna like press in. And I've seen that. I think, yeah, if somebody has red flags, current red flags, then you're careful with them. But we've had people, I mean, the the the some of the gang members at one of our churches that got saved. I I said, are you able to spot people that would be like coming in to potentially do harm? I said, You saw that what happened in Minnesota, right? The guy was like, Yeah. I was like, Would you be able to spot problem people that aren't coming to worship but are oh yeah. He said, I could I could spot that a mile away. Right. I said, would you please do security at the church? I could use you. I said, you you're you're big, you you look like you could protect people, and you look like you're smart. And you know, I didn't want to say, but like you haven't been a Christian long enough for the man part of you to be stripped out where it's like, well, we need to pray for our enemies. You you seem like you would still knock someone out with with skill. So I was like, meet meet Butch. And he met him, and I like, you know, that's I'm not having him lead Wednesday night Bible study. I I just need a a soldier, you know what I mean? That could that'll like help keep people safe. And then get people plugged in in the place where they feel like like they'd like it. I think another thing too, and I know this wasn't the question, but if your church is exciting, you won't have a problem with volunteers. If you're doing some stuff where people feel like they're making an impact, but if it's just babysitting, you know, your children's ministry is just popping on a video for eight kids that show up. Right. It it has to be where people feel like they're contributing value because they are contributing value.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

And I think that's actually one of the maybe I heard you preach on it uh or or or maybe I'm just making it up. I don't know, but uh, there's like a covenantal promise to Moses in the Old Testament where he says the Lord will provide volunteers in the day of his labor.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Wasn't me.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

And it it's like when your church is doing doing stuff, you know, you're showing these videos of of your uh your building getting you know updated in every new phase. You know, for me, like I look at that video and I'm like, if we were in Pittsburgh right now, I'd be like, oh, give me a paintbrush. Like I want to show it's just it's progress.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Which we've actually had to, that's why we don't put the address up anywhere, because we had people showing up to help, but it's like a construction zone. It's not 1826 for everybody, hey, grab a hammer. Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

You know, it's like like it's illegal to be in an active construction zone. But like when you're doing doing stuff, and it's the same thing with giving. People want to give, people want to be a part. I want to be a part. I want my seed to be a part of helping build a church in Pittsburgh or doing what like I it it brings it out of you because you're like, oh, they're doing stuff. They're they're they they're a part, they're building. They they got, you know, you don't get up there and I tell our teams this all the time. I say, listen, if anybody ever makes an announcement about needing volunteers from a place of poverty, that's the last time they're on the mic. Guys, if you just really know kids' ministry is really tough. Nobody wants to be in kids' ministry, and we just really need your help because you know, last week we didn't have enough people helping out and handing out graham crackers and goldfish and guys who do uh no, no. It's we're a part of something that's growing, thriving. It's moving in the right direction. Aren't you aren't you glad that a lot of families are now coming to this church and they're a part of this thing and we've got opportunity. This is an invitation for you to partner time, talent, and treasure with the advancement of, you know, A, B, C, or D. And I would totally agree with you. Volunteering is one of the great discipleship metrics of your life because it forces you to go, like, um, what am I in this for? You know, when somebody goes, hey, I want to be a part of the worship team. Lighty doesn't go, hey, yeah, bring your own mic, do whatever you want on Sunday. No, you're a part of a team. They're culture.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

And they're getting discipled by Michael. And like, who's that guy that's in the front row? He was in Seattle and he's here, he's got a hat on, and like a work shirt, pretty tall guy, does security. Oh, yeah, Travis. Travis, so like you have Travis, I have Chuck in Pitts in uh Texas, I have um Jeff and Butch and Brendan in Pittsburgh. So like that's another discipleship thing is if you have a strong leader that's a great Christian, then like what's gonna happen with that gang guy when he joins? Well, now he's with Jeff and other strong guys that are born again. Right. And he's gonna say, Oh, I could I can be like I can have testosterone and be a Christian. I don't have to turn into some like uh whatever offensive word I could come up with if I was given time to think.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Lesbian.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Yeah, a male lesbian. So um, and then same with like Texas. Like it's gonna disciple them because they're gonna get around Chuck Gordon, who's a good as you know, he's a killer, but he's like a super nice to be around. And then they're gonna feel comfortable. So then those, and then those, so then it's reciprocal. It's a great cycle. Because then Chuck feels great. He now there's guys that basically the reason they're coming to church is because of him. Right. And say so everybody gets something out of it. Next question. If you want to join Revival Today, Global Pursuit, one of the benefits is like this: you're being one of the only ministry organizations where the leaders are accessible. So there's the QR code. If you're a pastor, you want to bring your church in, you don't have to. It's not bottom up, it's top down. So, what in other words, I'm it's not so you can kick things up to us. We want to help equip you and stand with you to see your churches double and your evangelistic ministries take off and whatever whatever else you're doing. Um, next question. Will you and Pastor Russ ever co-author a book? Doubtful. But no, I mean, probably we will, because you can just take transcripts if we ever if we ever took a week like this and actually taught on a topic for the whole week we'd have a book, so probably. Next. Was there an experience with God that led you to your current calling? Yeah, I mean, I've told mine. I'm not gonna tell it to you, but I I had an angel appear to me one time and uh call me in the ministry when I was eight. That's the last angel I've seen. What about you? I've never heard how you got called in the ministry.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Um I didn't yeah, the the angel, the angel must have showed up while I was sleeping because I never I never got one, but um I would I would I would like one, but I you know I grew up in a ministry, I grew uh, you know, similar to you. I grew up in a ministry home and uh thought I'd end up in uh politics my whole life. That's what I wanted to do, and did that for uh a decade and you know, through some some different turns in the road. Um uh uh ended up as like a part-time young adult pastor at an Assembly of God Church and took that on, and like 30 days into my $1,200 a month part-time young adult role at at the church, we had a move of God, and and pretty soon, you know, the the the young adult ministry is going from two to a couple hundred, and people are driving in from Canada and Oregon and Idaho, and they're like, yo, this is it, and I'm kind of the most surprised person in the room, going, Oh, like we like stumbled into it, and uh then you know assumed I would kind of do that young adult thing, and then the guy I was working for was getting ready to retire because he had been a long-term faithful, you know, Assemblies of God pastor. And in the series of like 30 days, I had three almost word-for-word um prophetic instructions from three different uh prophetic, trusted leaders in my life who all didn't talk to each other, they weren't in each other's circles, but it was like, and you will soon plant the church, and the Lord will equip you and you will obey him, and it will happen faster than you think. And you know, by the time you're getting the third confirmation, uh, and and prophetic people is wild, you know, they're in the wind, they're they're on a different kind of you know frequency, and they're it you know, by the time you're hearing it for the third time, it felt like confirmation to, you know, for me plant the church. But yeah, I I think for me, like the most you know impactful uh the spiritual moment would be, you know, receiving outside of salvation is baptism of the Holy Spirit at the age of 12 at the church I grew up in in Seattle, and I sensed then like that Luke 24 type thing where like um my heart burned within me. And so I knew like there's something here, but I didn't know you know what it was. And I think kind of like an onion, there was layers and it uncovered, you know, this thing of like, no, this is what I created for you to do. So I think some people is by progression, and then other people is by almost like divine intervention. Like I would classify your call with the angel who walked in and said, uh uh, you know, that story that you've shared before, that was almost like a divine intervention in the narrative. And then I think for me it was more of this progression of like becoming aware of what God had placed in me by virtue of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Right. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

If that makes sense. Absolutely. I also feel like God has like people that are set apart to do like a greater work, so he'll have angels come to them, then there's like regular type pastors that just kind of discover it as as they go along.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

My angel's gonna drone strike your angel. Next. Touched by an angel.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

With AI advancing rapidly, where do you see it being used in ministry? Will churches fall behind without it? Uh I mean, you saw our thing with the voice translation, and um, then we're doing follow-up materials. Um, you don't need anybody to translate your books into other languages or follow-up books. So I would say publishing and uh interpretation is are the main two that uh you can use it for immediately.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

I talked to my staff uh or at least some of them the other day about this, and I wasn't trying to do it in like a scary way, but just challenging them to think deeply about this. Like um, AI is fundamentally going to redefine the job market, and there are a lot of things that people are doing today that you know in 12 months or maybe less um they won't be doing because AI will be good enough to replace them, and it's like self-developing, and uh uh with just the pace of of how fast the technology is developing. And so I think it does like beg the question um what are you doing that is irreplaceable? And what is irreplaceable in a ministry setting is is what is incarnational, you know. Like you can like I I I utilize AI and uh uh any type of um uh research program and things like that. You know, I'm not going to like a dusty library out of the 1880s and opening up, you know, the Dewey decibel system to try to find a commentary to see what Spurgeon said about John 15.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

I'm asking ChatGPT, what did Spurgeon say about John 15? Now, of course, I'm always going to secondarily verify it because every once in a while chat's got a demon in it. You've gotta you gotta determine if they are telling the truth. But it's helped speed up those types of things. And so Oh, immensely.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

I I would say you can do 20 hours of study in 20 minutes now.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Yes. I mean, and it's if you know how to do prompts right. It's insane. And you know, the people who exactly, if you know how to do the prompts. And so if you spend time, you know, just developing and learning, and I and I pay for it, you know, I don't do just the free version because it's a valuable research added thing.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

And so, you know, is AI going to replace You could take every subscription I have away from me, and and if I could only be subscribed to one thing, it would be the premium on any of the correct, correct.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

And it's like, yeah, AI is not gonna do um the laying on a hands. You know, AI is not gonna produce, you know, a prophetic word. AI's not gonna, you know, help produce an anointing. Um, and so those are the things that are irreplaceable. But like when people aren't aren't like I would think about this. If I was employed at a church right now in like a non-primary type role, not in a scary way, but going like, what value do I add to an organization that AI cannot replace? And if you can't have, you need to develop one.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

You need to have a skill that people can't, you know, if they lose you, they've really lost something. If I lost McGallis, I've really lost something. If if Ben goes, it could replace him within hours. There's a million Bens. No, it's just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

No, but it's like we were talking, I think I mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 59:01

Devin. Devin's Devin's like an irreplaceable. Yeah, we were talking with sound.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

About uh Tessa, I think that's your name, you know, but it's like we were talking about that last night of going, I've never seen somebody so intuitive on the media. You know, like as you're preaching, before you get to the point, she's like, I already got the video.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

It's like Yeah, I didn't even know we had footage from Barbados. We didn't have a media team back then.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

That's like that is an incarnational, irreplaceable, you know, but people who are just pushing buttons or you know, flipping the like, you know, my first job in church was flipping the overhead projector. Right. Well, now that's not a job anymore. You've got to develop what is the skill set you're bringing to the table. And stay with it.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

And make sure you don't have something that was very valuable 20 years ago that's not valuable now. It's like if you were the best at selling clock radios, no one has them anymore. So I, you know, we're we would end up changing gears and getting into prosperity. But that that's, I would say, 75% of prosperity is not tithing or giving offerings, though you can't exclude that. But I think a lot of charismatics get frustrated in Pentecostals because they tithe and give, but they have no skill in life that they've developed. David did not just prosper because he was a tither and a giver and followed God's law. He was a trained killer and could take somebody out that nobody else could take out. He had a skill that nobody else in um in Israel had. Stand-up comedians are like that. You know, think of how much money stand-up comedians make because they can a good one, because they can make somebody laugh. Uh RD Lang told me that the owner of the Patriots sent a private jet for him and paid him 50 grand to do 45 minutes at his birthday party and make everybody laugh. Because it's valuable. Joy is a valuable thing. You have to have something you do and can do in a way that that people are like screwed if you're out of the equation. Right, right. Next. What are your top two to three favorite video games to play? Um I love NHL 26. I I heard the new blackout that just got released is great. I'm gonna give it another try. There was a ton of cheating in it, and I quit. And uh, but I'm gonna I'm gonna try it again, and then two to three. Alright, there's two.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

You um oh man. Yeah, I mean, probably uh probably Call of Duty, you know. I'm tempted to say like Grand Theft Auto, but I feel like that might reduce the amount of applications to Revival Today Global Pursuit. And so I don't know. I'll help those. I agree. Yeah. Well, and you know, we'll see how they they come out. Of course, I play with the Christian filter. There's no shooting, there's no cussing, there's nothing, you're just inviting people to church.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

You can't tell me the new protagonist, they're having a woman um protagonist for the first time, it's a Puerto Rican gun. You can't tell me they didn't base it on a dollar. Yeah, exactly. Um let me say this about the prosperity thing again. You know, if you this is for everybody to help you make money, if you treat something like it's yours and think outside the box, you think of that um parable where the guy used the debts that they owed his master and cut deals with him. So his master still got paid, but he did a favor, and Jesus said the guy was shrewd because when he got dismissed, all these people wanted to help him. We went to a restaurant two nights ago and last night. First words out of the guy's mouth, our our kitchen, just so you know, we're we're shutting our kitchen down. Like, can we say uh party of six? Um we're we're shutting our kitchen down. Is it a yes or no? You either say closed or open. And then, okay, yeah, uh, if you order quickly, you can get in. And then they just treat you like you're an inconvenience the whole time. Then we went last night, we were earlier than we were the night before. Sorry, guys, close the kitchen down. So there's somebody that owns that restaurant that's not when he gets that he's in a deficit in March, you know, and they had less money come in. He's gonna blame the economy and the war in Iran, but really it's because you have a prick working front of house that doesn't care if your business makes any money or not. And so I would say if you're a business owner here, I would do checks. Obviously, if you come in, everyone's gonna straighten up and put their phones away and stuff and work. I would hire somebody to run by my shops and see how they're treated and by who. Because you've got your life on the line. You got a mortgage out on your house, securing space, trying to move product, and you got some idiot there that's already checked out 50 minutes before close. Pastor Abraham and I went to a McDonald's in um uh South Carolina, and the lady goes, Um, I said, I'll have a quarter pounder with cheese. We're not serving burgers. I said, Uh is everything okay in there? Is there like a hostage situation? I said this, is there like a hostage situation? You need me to get help? This is like code for there's trouble. No, but we just turned everything off. It was 50 minutes before close. Right. And they've decided that we can still do nuggets. Okay. So there's somebody that paid for that McDonald's franchise and is has their life on the line, and you got that lady operating like that. Then, A, if you own a business, make sure you're not employing people like that. B, make sure you're not a person like that. To he who uses well what he's been given, he'll be given even more and have an abundance. If you do a crappy job at your work because you're waiting for your breakthrough and your destiny to open up, you're never going to have a breakthrough and destiny open up. God despises people like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

And then no, I want you to write this in the comments. And if you're listening on podcasts, this will help you. Write this down in all caps. Someone is always watching. And I don't mean God. I mean that billionaire that gave us our first building. He had been observing my ministry for a long time before he did that. And he liked what he saw. He watched, I found out later, he has two apps installed on his TV, Fox News and Revival Today, and watches me every night. And he liked what I was doing. And he watched me at little churches where who's watching you is not the only people that are watching you. Think of all the times me and Pastor Russ have brought up that we had a YouTube video pop up and how disappointed we were in the preacher. But imagine how it could have gone the other way. Where it's like, who is this guy? I never heard him preach. I'd like to have him at my church. But that guy had so lowered his level to the little group he was speaking to that the people that are watching, I've always conducted myself in preaching where if somebody was watching, it's like, this guy's in a little church. He doesn't really belong at that church. We should have him here. And that that ended up happening. Conduct yourself for the billionaires and influence people. That's what I thought. Even our waitress last night sucked. It's like she doesn't know that I routinely give $1,000 tips, $500 tips. A lot. I don't mean like a few times a year, or I did it once a month. I'm talking if you take me late after I've been done preaching, and it's almost time for you to go, and you've been there for eight and a half hours, and you're bright and sunny, and um the kitchen's closed, I can get them to turn. It back on. I'm telling you, I'll make your month.

unknown 1:06:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

Because I it's not like I expect, I just expect good treatment. And well, I I realize you've been there all day. But if you treat me like I broke into your kitchen and forced you to cook me a meal at gunpoint, right, then I'm gonna give you 18% on the nose, 20 20.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Right. We it was my daughter's uh birthday uh yesterday, and so she wanted to uh go to breakfast here in Spokane. And uh so my wife and I, and and uh you know, we took her and her friends out, uh, and there's this like breakfast diner in this train car. It's like an old train car that's been turned into like this small breakfast, you know, place. And we went there and the gal who had been taking care of us, uh and and an older gal, she's been working at that train car diner 35 years. And uh and it was crazy, it's hectic. It's like one of the popular places, you know, pop kind of like local legend places. So the place is slammed. We have like a party of eight. She gets us in there, you know, one of my kids ends up spilling their drink. She's coming over, cleaning, no big deal, not a problem. You know, she finds out it's my daughter's birthday. She comes out with this like train whistle and this you know, party hat and this free dessert, whatever. And uh I uh just like like kind of like everyone's grandma, like a super nice gal. And so um uh we got the bill and and I left a large tip uh uh uh for her and and was walking out. And as I'm walking out, she goes, she goes, Oh my goodness, are you sure? And I turn around and go, what are you talking about? And she goes, Is this a mistake? Are you sure? And you know, I I left, my wife was was still in the restaurant. I mean, she's like almost in tears, going, like, I I don't know, you know. So of course we end up inviting her to church and all these types of things, but just going on and on and on, like I've never had some, and it wasn't like a ton of money, but it was like, hey, thanks for helping my seven-year-old have like a good birthday and not yelling at us when she accidentally spilled the water.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

And when you walk into a place you cared about my daughter, like she like it was your daughter's birthday.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:06

Right. And I, you know, I've five I've actually fired employees over this before, where it's like you you forget, like don't try to over-spiritualize this these things. You know, we're we're just here for God. Well, yeah, I get that. That that's true, you know, in one sense. But we're in the people business.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

Sure are.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:21

So, you know, when you show up on a Sunday and you make somebody feel like an inconvenience. Oh, you know, you're here late. Well, you know, I don't know if we can really find us, you know, we're really at max capacity. No, I mean, I have literally terminated employees over this. Don't don't, you know, because because, you know, um, because, you know, the employees who are working for me now were not working next to me in the crawl space, you know, for 60 hours a week, making, you know, a couple bucks an hour for the luxury of preaching the gospel on a Sunday. So it's like that is in my review mirror. You are in the customer service business. When people are coming in, how many churches have they driven by in order to come to yours?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

You know, you don't know about the week that they've had. That might be the only positive interact. The only time somebody might tell them all week that that somebody believes in them and loves them is maybe your church service, and you're gonna act like, uh, no, we don't, you know, uh, you want to bring Starbucks into the lobby or you, whatever it is. It's like, hey, listen, you don't forget that you're in uh this type of business and people are making it pisses me off walking into somebody's restaurants here, you know, in Spokane. Already in the Northwest, you have a little bit of the freeze, you know, the kind of the freeze and people, but whatever. And I'm like, you know, um, your city is going to hell. You know, a decade ago, this place was conservative and it was wealthy and people were nice. Uh, and now it's overrun by fentanyl addicts and liberal politicians. And the people who originally moved from the west side to the east side are now trying to get out of the eastern Washington and move to Idaho or Montana. So, like, hey, let's not actually turn this in to like a Portland type spirit where we're just like completely agitated and irritated at like the people who are like coming here and wanting to help support the economy and grow things and build things and be generous and you know, that type of thing. And when people act like you're an inconvenience, like this is why I freaking hate, you know, I don't want uh a private plane because um it helps improve the time that I'm able to get. You know why I want a private plane? So I don't have to freaking deal with TSA agents who act like I'm an inconvenience for showing up at the airport. Now I know some of the government shutdowns, some of them haven't been getting paid. I'm not talking about the last 10 days.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

But they were acting like that. Like somebody wrote about that huge weight there was at Philadelphia Airport today, and I was getting ready to write it, but somebody beat me through. They were at, that's how it is when there isn't a government shutdown. It's not like people suddenly got unfriendly at the Philadelphia TSA. Right. You feel like you're at Cell Block D during a prison riot.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

Yeah, I had I was walking through the TSA C Tech the other day, and you know, uh they said, Oh, uh, you got a random check, even though you have clear check. And uh they said, you know, you go through the thing and then it beeps. And they said, Where's this beep? And it's right on my nuts, you know? And I was like, I don't got, you know, I got nuts there, but I own nothing metallic. I said, I don't know what's going on. He said, Well, we got a check. We got to check. I'm telling you, this was like two weeks ago. That dude smacked me in the nuts so hard when I was standing there with my legs spreading. Yeah, turns out I met him on Craigslist. You know, it gets weirder and weirder.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:20

But, you know, and it was it looked, I was in the seventh-floor psychiatric unit.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:23

It's like, you know, I've I'm holding my bags, I'm getting on the plane to preach, getting punched in the nuts by TSA, and they're offended that I'm there. I'm a pay, I'm paid to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

Right. No, and forget TSA. It then you get treated like that in first class and stuff. Right. And what you said, I know this is a very douchey thing to say, but that's the thing that stood out to me about being able to fly privately. It's not actually the the inside of the plane, because you actually have more space on unless you have a huge jet, you have it's more comfortable the seat in first class, and your meal is better than what you have flying private. Right. But the not getting yelled at for 90 straight minutes leading up to the flight, the entirety of the flight, and then getting off the flight at baggage, claiming getting yelled at by takes you don't realize it till you do it that it it it it it is it it's such a instead of needing a day to recover when you get home, you you arrive home recovered.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

You're like rested, because you're not just getting orders barked at you. Right. Hey, did you hear the thing? I don't know if you saw when I posted this. Because I like screwing with these people because that's the only way to deal with it without like having a nervous breakdown. But when I was at the um Frankfurt airport going to Nigeria, coming back from Nigeria, this guy, so it was a Lufanza flight there, and then it was United Frankfurt to um uh Washington DC. So this guy comes out barking at everybody. He's like he's like West African. He's like I so I guess Lufanza put numbers one through six where to line up, but United doesn't use that process. So he's like, listen up, everybody, you know, just yelling like like we're an umpire and he's Lupinella. Listen up, everybody. You don't pay attention to the numbers. You line up where we tell you to line up. These numbers were put there by Lufanza. We are united, we don't use these numbers. So if we give you an instruction, don't pay attention to the numbers, pay attention to us. Everything we tell you, you have to do what we say, don't pay attention to the numbers. And I lifted my hand when he paused, and he went, yes. I went, so if like if you give us an instruction that's different than the numbers, do we listen to you or go with the numbers? I just got done telling you. And everybody was like, Giggle. But it's like, I mean, it's a terrible way to live. Next. How did we meet? Was it a dating app or was it? Yes. I swiped the wrong way on Tinder.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:56

Yeah, same. How did we meet? Uh I think we were on a day star together. Was that the first time? That was the first one, yeah. We met in person. I th I'd been following you on social media for a while. And then we, I think we met in person in Dallas.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:11

Yeah, and Rachel, Rachel Lamb had told me about Russell. She said, she had said to me, There's this pastor that you have to meet in Seattle. You guys, oh my gosh, you guys would get along so well. And that was all I could hear was before I tuned out. And um, but she was right. We were so so we were on air together. I think we had a lunch together after, and then that was the first night I preached in Fort Worth. And it it stood out to me because um Pastor Russell came to my meeting. I don't, I don't think I invited him. He came in and sat through the whole I've you know, preachers don't do that, especially preachers in the same age group are all jealous and hateful. So for him to do that, and then we went to uh STK after and talked, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I don't think I saw you again for a while after that, but it was just I like he's an enjoyable, you know, friendship. I think you learn as you get older. It's just like an unforced thing. There's people that it's very difficult to maintain a relationship with, and then there's people that it just flows easy. And uh and then I I feel like um when he started getting threats and stuff, and then people feel free to take shots at him, and I I kind of like uh not that I'm his older brother, but I kind of like fighting anyway, so I like laying into people, and I we we grew closer like that, and then God obviously had to add more and store it was a divine um connection, like like Rachel said. Oh my god, you guys were like the best friends. Don't you think, guys? Next. What have you done to enlarge your capacity so God can trust you with more? I think you just do well with what God gives you, and that in that enlarges. You know, I was talking to Patrick the other day. I was like, you know, you went to school for for accounting, but now you know you're like running a $35 million a year thing, and you've overseen two building projects. Yes, I think as you just do what God puts in front of you, you just start ending up like really good at a lot of things. You know, Rom Rom has no training in um anything, and he can run, he can, he can do like what a a television trained producer from Syracuse University can do and hook up a feed. So I I think it's not you do anything to enlarge your capacity, you just complete the task God gives you, and in doing that, it makes you bigger.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:34

Yeah, and I think um the thing that people have to be aware of is you know, uh one of the key ways that I think that people enlarge um uh their their capacity to receive is through uh generosity. Whatever a man sows, he'll also reap. But people also have to understand um that uh uh that uh generosity that moves God, number one, it has levels to it, and number two, it's it's it's it's dependent on how far you've grown. Like, okay, so for example, you know, a decade ago, um, for me to sew like a thousand dollars, it was like I'm not sure um we'll be able to pay the rent, say, you know, at the end of the month, but I'm gonna trust God. Well, fast forward ten years, now sewing a thousand dollars, uh, it's not that it's not nice, but it doesn't stretch me the same way. And so you you've got to understand that as you level up, you know, so so do, you know, I I had one friend who said, you know, uh, giving that moves your heart is giving that moves God's heart. So like Who said that? Yeah, I I I forget That's a great line. I've never heard that before. But I, you know, I I've I've held on to that going like, hey, give like giving a thousand dollars uh today doesn't move doesn't move my heart because it doesn't have the same size of impact. You know, and so well I know the tithe is 10%, you know, but how much should I give in the offering? What moves your heart? What because you know, yeah, I feel like, oh, uh a hundred thousand moves my heart, but but a thousand, you know, so it's like it's like you know, you so people sometimes they actually chap out.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

I can't speak for anybody, everybody else, but like there's an amount that you can give and it's like no big deal. Then there's an amount where in the Lord lays lays on your heart, like the color drains out of your face. Yes. That's how that's how you kind of know it's a precious seed.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:25

You feel it in the plums, you feel it down in your plums. Next. What financial benchmarks are you need to plan it? Yeah, it doesn't work like that. Just get get moving. The money comes from the ministry. You don't get money to do ministry.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:40

Right. And uh, you know, the anointing is is going to attract what the culture pursues. So if you're put your hand to the plow, you know, the the the ravens will come. But when people say, well, you know, for phase one of our church plant, we've really got to raise a quarter million. For what? For what? You don't have to, you know. I mean, I'm not saying you're doing dumb and you don't have a strategy or a blueprint, but don't, don't, don't get, you know, the cart uh uh uh before the you know before the horse here. Just just set your hand to the plow, and I can't tell you how many guys I've helped invest in, you know, where they've had that strategy, and then they never end up planting in the first place or it never even survives 90 days. So it's like if if you have the goods, you put your hand to the plow, that that type of money is gonna be loosed.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:26

I don't know, that's my opinion. Uh no, you're right. I I um I heard Bishop David Oidepo, who probably runs the wealthiest ministry on planet earth, if it's not its top three, and he said, There's no gift of money raising. And so anytime I hear people say we need to raise, they're out of the flow. Because it doesn't work that way. You know, think all this money for this building, which is our third building in four years. We didn't raise any of it. I collected it. When people failed to give, you know, if somebody feels to give half a million, me and Russell are gonna come pick it up. But there's no, I'm not having a pancake breakfast or a golf tournament or, you know, even capital campaigns, it's it's secular. I feel like I feel like there's a flow, and in teaching on it, you just you let the Lord do it. The other thing that God told Bishop Oyadepa was don't raise money, raise men. And if you raise men, you'll never have to raise money. If you build God's word in the people and it makes them productive. There was a pastor that I used to preach for a lot, and he had a very prosperous ministry. And he used to do this thing in church that was very impressive to me. He'd say, How many of you were a millionaire when you came to church here? And no one raised their hand. Wow. And he'd say, How many of you are millionaires now? And a decent amount of hands would go up. And one of them was a felon who had just got out of prison when he came to the church. Like, no job, can't be hired. He's a millionaire business owner. So the raising money, I feel like a lot of ministries now try to find rich people, tell them their need, and hope they give, rather than do what Jesus did and take poor, demonized people, poor people, sick people, get them healed, get them delivered, teach them the word. You don't have to tell people like that your tithe belongs to the local church. They would tithe if you discontinued tithing. Because they, they, you know, for that guy, like in that guy's church. I was a felon when I came here and had nothing. And because of the word of God that he taught me, I now am a millionaire and have employees. You could never get me to doubt that. That's why, that's why they can run all the hit pieces they want on Kenneth Copeland. You can't reduce his partnership by one partner because he didn't collect givers that were impacted by other people. He taught people the word, they received it from they don't care what you have to say about them. Next. How would you handle multiple years of lack while tithing faithfully? Um, I have a I have a video that I would have you watch. I would look through my videos on YouTube on it. I would get all my books on finances because something's wrong. Tithing is not a one-way ticket to financial increase. Tithing qualifies you for financial increase. Tithing helps facilitate financial increase. But if you have lack, all that means is you're spending more than what's coming in. So there has to be. I would love to know if you work. I would say it would be at least 50-50 that you don't have a job, which is the whole answer. There's nothing to read. You have to work a job that pays money and then spend less money than what comes in. That's how you eliminate lack. Now, there I understand there's spiritual elements from time to time. A famine in 1 Kings 17, a tornado blows through and takes your house out. That's temporary poverty. But if there's years of lack, you aren't working. If you're tithing, I I don't see that you're working a paying job. And if you are, then you're spending more than what comes in. And so don't spiritualize it. Where do you work? Right. How much money do you make? Why do you work there? You know, because then sometimes you will have somebody say, like, I'm a I'm a part-time administrator at our local Christian school, and they pay me 9,000 a year. That's why you're in lack. There's your lack. Yeah, because you've decided to work 18 hours a week. You know, I like being home with my kids. Yeah. I like going to Disney World. No, I don't know. I don't even know why I said that. I hate going to Disney World. I would rather be in a part-time administrator at a Christian school. Um, I would rather be a detainee in Iran. Yes. Uh for speaking against the regime than going to Disney World. But what uh what I'm saying is you can't go by what you like. You gotta do what life demands to provide for your family and build a life. That's how it works.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:49

Yeah, and people, I think this is one of the critiques that, you know, uh that you you and I get a lot uh from from like uh other ministries or outside voices is you know, well, you you guys just believe that, you know, if you give, God's gonna bless you, and you know, things of that nature. It's like, no, actually, you when you when you teach the council of scripture, it that line that you just use is really great. You know, tithing and giving, it's what qualifies you for. But it's like, to me, it's like the opening of a door to a house. You know, what you do once you get inside the house, you know, well, uh, Pastor Jonathan, I bought a house, but it's been three years um and the house doesn't have any furniture. Uh, what should I do? It's like, yeah, well, congrats. You got the front door open and now there's those steps. You know, scripture talks about if a man doesn't work, uh, then uh he's not gonna eat. Uh the Bible talks about the principles of stewardship. Uh, you know, even uh, you know, in America, we have this thing called like the Protestant work ethic, which like kind of like fundamentally changed the ethos of like how people thought about their labor because it was inspired by like the these New Testament principles of you grind, you work, you know, six days and then the seventh, it belongs to the Lord. You know, so uh when people think that we're saying things like, if you just give 10%, it don't matter how else you live or what else you do, you're just gonna be in line for blessings. It's like, no, uh this is the it's like a master key that unlocks this thing, and then it puts you on the way in which you should go that you would never depart from it. If you're well, you know, listen, I've just always loved video games. So I'm working at the mall, uh kiosk at GameStop for, you know, seven and a half dollars an hour, and I've got, and and I don't understand birth control. So me and my wife just keep having kids, and you know, we're given, we're given every week at the church, and I just don't understand why we're broke. I do. I understand why you're broke. You you work a loser job. You're not you're not developing yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:41

And you don't plan. Right. You know, if if you're having, I know this is like a news flash for a lot of Christians, but like if you're struggling financially, maybe you don't have three more kids. Hey, how can I compound this problem? You know, that's one of the reasons Dallas and I didn't have Camila until we had been married uh how many years? I got married in 06. Yeah, seven years I was married before we had a kid. We didn't have enough for me and me and Adolf. I'm not gonna compound it and bring more problems in. I didn't even own a dog. There was no money for dog food. So make good decisions. And the more you're in the ministry, the more you realize people had absolute morons for parents. So that's what a lot of you have to overcome. You know, you're you your parents taught you things that lead you to be financially as financially inept as possible. How there's not a class in public school, and of course I know why there's not, because they want they want people to be economically illiterate, but they should teach economics. If you understand that money is not a miracle, money is a reward for services rendered. And then if you're a minister, you know, there's a lot of you had a lot of people in 2025 are givings down. Yeah, maybe doing three podcasts a week as a guest for free instead of preaching isn't the best ticket to grow your ministry. Do you ever think of that? Correct. Like we're doing, I do one every day, but tonight at seven, him and I are gonna be praying for people and preaching the word and building a new church in Spokane together. And then I'm gonna go build our church in Arizona on Saturday. Then I'm gonna go build our church in California on Sunday. Then I'm going back to Marin, Kentucky to build a church there with that pastor and help him. The actual work of the ministry produces. I would I would evaluate how I spend my time. And I don't I don't mean like get up, you know, because then people, oh, I'm gonna start getting up earlier. So what? To be poor, more waking hours of the day? It's not just getting up early, it's having something you're doing that makes money.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:39

Next. What does go into all the world look like for someone with a full time career? TL Osborne said every Christian has a responsibility to go into all the world full time or to send someone as their substitute. So that's where giving comes in. I'm not called to go into all the world, so I'm gonna extract as much. Money as possible from the the world system and use it to build the kingdom of God. And that then that's what gives value to your work. One of the scriptures people think guys like us don't understand is these guys talk about prosperity. There's actually a verse in Proverbs, I believe it is, labor not to be rich. These guys are telling you how to be ready to work to get money, but the Bible says labor not to be rich. Yes, because your end goal is not just to accumulate the money, it's to do it with a purpose of building the kingdom of God. You know, there should be something that's in you as a Christian after a little while. Yeah, Proverbs 23, 4, labor not to be rich, cease from thine own wisdom. There should be a desire in you at some point that I don't want. Like I would hear when I was 11, pastors and evangelists say, man, I met this guy. He owns this printing company, and he gave a hundred thousand dollars so that we were able to finish the roof on our church. And I would think when I was younger, I want to be that guy. I don't want to be the pastor that knows. The blessing of God is not, I will, I will cause the blessing of the Lord will cause you to know people who are rich. It's the blessing of God makes a man rich. It'll make you rich. I don't want to know rich people. I want to be one because the Bible says that's my inheritance. And I don't want to be one so I can be rich and tell people that we just remodeled our kitchen for the third time and have more of a um marble backsplash. We had smaller tiles before, but my wife said it was harder to clean. You know, I don't want, I'm not, that's not my goal is to talk about backsplashes and rental properties. My goal is is that when a when somebody's preaching and they see me walk in the room, they go, I bet tonight's gonna be a good offering because I know Jonathan's here and he's a giver.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:46

A hundred percent. And uh when people don't understand the purpose for their prosperity in the first place, it like disconnects them from being uh attached to like the real world. So you'll you'll get around some of these like business guys uh who uh you know uh they'll go to church, they're going to heaven, whatever, but then they'll talk about like like it's no big deal, like, oh yeah, I went and blew like 300,000 in Vegas this weekend. You know, I put it on the craps table, or you know, I do this or I do that, you know, things of that nature. And then when it comes to the things of God, it's as cheap as possible, or it's as stingy as possible, or it's you know, they don't understand how the rest of the world works. And so it's like, oh man, you know, I'd I'd really like to help you out, preacher or pastor. And boy, have I got a deal for you. I'm not looking for a deal from you. You know, it's like you, you, you're you're, you know, and then and then in the very next breath, they're talking about, you know, doing this and doing that, and you know, all of the all of these types of things. And it's like helping God or helping the people of God or helping the ministry or the messengers go out or things like that. It's like the lowest uh common, you know, uh uh priority, you know, if we ever get around it. I'm not, you know, looking to try to get into some, you know, business deal or pyramid scheme, or you know, I don't need you to produce for me a coupon so that I can go, you know, it's just like it, it's like understand the the purpose of this thing, else you just you just come across as like an arrogant D-bag where it's like you don't understand um the real world. You're you're you're talking about how you're doing all these you know types of things. And then it and then it comes to giving uh of offerings and and things like that, and it's like, hey, here's 200 bucks, preacher. Uh you you know, you should feel lucky that you know I'm sitting in your audience today. Screw off. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:34

Yeah, I agree with that. Let's do one more question and uh we'll call it a day. Maybe we'll do a second one tomorrow if you'd like that. What we already did that one. My first five attendances is youth leader. Five, ten, twenty-five, eighteen, twenty-three. What would you do to build momentum as youth pastor and cross 30, 40, 50? I'll go and then Pastor Professor Russ. My first job was as a youth pastor. Um let me see that question again. My first job was as a youth pastor in Boston. We had three kids our first day. You had five, so you got me to beat. And that was all the youth in the church. It wasn't like I got three of the 50 to come. There it was an old Italian Pentecostal church with no kids. And so what I did is I did the uh Billy Graham's Operation Andrew and started getting them. I preached on soul winning. I got them praying for their friends. We'd pray for the people that they listed, everybody listed seven friends. Then I announced we were gonna have a a youth like rally, like an evangelism day, um, in six weeks for them to bring the people that they were praying for. So it went from three to like twelve. And then out of that twelve, it now we had about eight that stayed. Did it again. Fourteen. Did it again, another six-week cycle, and then we were in like the twenties and felt like we were lighting the world on fire, and then the thirties, and then it went up from there. And so now you can't just do that. You have to minister to the kids too, because no one's gonna invite people to receive a Jesus that they haven't had an encounter with. So implement the Operation Andrew Evangelism thing, but minister to those kids. Get them delivered from cutting or whatever their their thing is that that they're battling, and they'll be loyal to to you and and um they'll help you grow the group. What did you I know you had great success with this? What did you do? How many did you start with?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:32

We had three we had three our first night. Um it was in December, and I'll never forget it because on the way home I told my wife, I said, This is we got the wrong, we got the wrong call. Like, we like, you know, let me go back to politics. And she was like, No, give it a month, just give it 30 days and just see if God will do something, and then the Lord did. She's alright, she's okay for her first wife, you know. I mean, yeah. But um, yeah, we uh I think you know, what we were able to do as well is like, you know, give give people something um that they looked forward to, you know, from a spiritual perspective, uh, that that kind of became like a highlight uh in their week.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:11

And so Yeah, make it fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:13

Yeah, make make it something that is a worthwhile, because you're always gonna get the two or three, like you know, me or me or you growing up were the two or three. It don't matter if your youth group sucks. You're in youth group every week. Why? Because you that's how you were raised as being in church every night of the week. Well, more and more, you know, in our culture today, people are not like that. And so, you know, creating a high value um experience where something to look forward to, uh uh, where, you know, you were excited to see them and and they were excited to see you, it interjected a little bit of life just right off the bat because they were like, oh, um, in the midst of this like AG church, you know, which is maybe a little more old school in some of the ways, like this seems uh a little more uh lively, a little more relevant, a little more fun, a little more exciting. And I try to keep people guessing, like, you know, I and that's how I even run the church today. People are just like, I have no idea what's gonna happen on Sunday. Like, Russ might be there, he might not. It might say something crazy, it might be, you know, this, that, you know, it's like, you know, get give it, don't get it so much muscle memory that people can just close their eyes and anticipate exactly everything that's gonna happen, everything you're gonna say. You know, you keep it lively. And uh, you know, of course, Lord helped us, Lord breathed on it. But but but I think, you know, if you if you started at five and now you're at 25, that's already a 5x growth. You know, so it's like don't don't get down on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:32

You know, 25 is bigger than and 23, like, and again, I'm not trying to, we're not trying to like get you to be comfortable to stagnate, but you're doing great. Right. You know, to take it from five to twenty-three, you've already done well, and then I would just keep keep building the momentum like Pester Rossi.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:45

And where you're at at this side, I always tell people, like, you know, um, there are things that you can do at this size that you're not able to do at the next stage. So enjoy it. Enjoy it and lean into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:56

Which is hard to tell people. Like, I hate it when people told me that when I was like pressing for more. Right. Now I'm telling you, just enjoy it. Enjoy the stage where you don't have that many meetings. It's like, shut up. I but then now I see that they're right. It's like I do enjoy when I was in Virginia Beach, I'd have like one Sunday through Wednesday booked and one Sunday night, and that was it for the month. But then I'd have like 10 days home where Dawson and I, we lived right by the beach. It was it was walking distance, go grab a sandwich, her eat half, meat, half, sit on the towel, and just lay on the beach till sundown and talk. It made like a great foundation for our marriage where like now we can we can be apart like this, and it's we're we're too tight for it to do anything. I'll tell you something funny from my time as youth group, at youth group that I just remember when you said keep it exciting. So, one of those youth outreaches, we advertised that um we were gonna have a hot wing eating contest, and whoever won got fifty dollars, which back then was a lot of money. It was like the 1800s, and then it was for teenagers, so and then plus people just want to prove they can eat hot wings. So we had a lot of guys from the high school come and stuff. We had like a good crowd, but you know, at this point, like 60 some, which was great. Well, I went to this place called Faniu Hall in Boston, where there's all there, it's a mark, it's a market, it's one of the oldest markets in the country, and I bought this hot sauce that you have to show ID to buy. It's meant for recipes, it comes in an eyedropper, and you have to be 18 to buy it and show ID, and you're supposed to put one drop in a recipe. It's made with the same ingredients that Mace is made with. So, you know, I was I was 18 or 19, maybe, and so I'm like, we're gonna make this hot. So we were cooking our own wings, and I took the thing, and we we did like two drops, and we're like, ah, you know what? And just like did squirts of the eyedropper, like like four or five, mixed it around, made the wings. So we're like, all right, who's first? Let's see who who can eat. Um, let's see how many wings you can eat. So the guy goes first. There's like we got fast music playing, real happy thing. He gets halfway through the first wing, and blood rockets out of his nose. That's how hot it was. I mean, I mean, not a nosebleed. I'm talking blood shot out of his nose. And then he started coughing and wheezing like people do when they get maced. And so I thought even then people would start laughing and you know, but instead, everybody was just horrified. And then someone shut the music off, and then there was just like a chill in the room, and it was like the most counterproductive thing. Instead of it being like exciting and funny, people were like afraid. He might no one else would eat, nobody else would eat the rest of the wings. He was a Bible college student, and he went first. His name's Chris Fenari. He said his stomach hurt for a year and a half after that.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:52

Yeah. Yo, okay, so we did we did a we did a we did a uh a hot wing uh challenge as well. Now, this was this was when I was leading the church, I had a youth pastor do this. So we did the hot wing challenge, and I don't know, you know, where they bought the hot sauces or you know, from the store or whatever, and they they juiced them up. And uh I that was on a Wednesday night, Thursday morning, I woke up to uh uh a phone call from a parent who was uh irritated. And here's why because their kid, you know, it's like that group interaction, they're all trying to prove themselves. I can do the hottest wing. Well, this kid did the hot wings, okay? Got home from the youth group, ended up in the emergency room, and get this. I didn't even know this was possible, but get this. Okay, I got the phone call. I had to deal with it. I got the phone call. Uh it was so hot what he was eating, and you know, it just kind of goes through you, gives you, you know, gives you diarrhea or whatever, that it burned his butthole. Yes. And he had they they had to do medication and and to go to the ER to get burn cream for the burning of the booty holes from the hot wings.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:54

Yeah, I didn't know that was possible. You don't think of that stuff when you're in your 20s, you're just like, nothing can harm anyone, but then you end up doing permanent damage to the kids in the youth group. Crazy. Yeah. You know, I was listening to Johnny Knoxville on Joe Rogan. I like Johnny. Did you see it was on Joe Rogan? Yeah. So he's like, would you ever do the the the stunts again? He's like, I can't, because if I get another concussion, it could be like the end of me. Right. So I guess that last one they did on Jackass Forever, which I showed, I showed Camila. I edited up the bad ones, but like she didn't know anything about Jackass for laughing her head off about them getting just destroyed. And so they put him in a ring with a bull. Oh yeah, yeah. And he was dressed in like the bullfighter uniform. And he said, Normally in the bull rings, he said there's soft mounds of dirt, but he said it was just like like dirt over asphalt, like a thin layer. And I he said, I was thinking, nah, this isn't good. And he said, We were already there, so it's time to shoot. So he said, I I timed the jump normally when I would do it, but he said I mistimed it, and I went up too early, and I was coming back down, and he hit me and they showed it, and he's like, I did like a one and a half, and the thing that broke my fore was my head. So they had the picture of him landing on his head, and he was like, That was one of multiple concussions. So it's just funny. Hearing, like, it's funny when you're in your 20s and 30s and you see him at 50, and he has like permanent neck problems. Right stuff. Right. How about speaking of that? And then I'll leave it alone after this. David Spade has permanent neck problems. His dad left his mom and him and his two brothers when they were little, and he said his mom worked as a waitress and they had like no money. And so he was doing a trick at at high school. He did like a skateboard flip. No, he was doing a back flip. And he landed on his head and hurt his neck. And so they had his mom pick him up to take him to the emergency room. And on the way, because she couldn't afford it, she went, I could take you to the emergency room, or I could take you to Pizza Hut. And he chose Pizza Hut. No. So he's like, I I'm on pills. Like I've been on painkillers for like 40 years with his neck didn't all right. Because she couldn't afford to take him. So he goes, I could take you to the emergency room, or we could go to pizza. Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut.