Mandy Gunasekara - Is California’s EPA outrage political theater?

California officials are relying on federal help to respond to a dangerous chemical emergency after years of criticizing federal environmental oversight. Are states too quick to reject Washington until they need help managing a crisis?

Mandy Gunasekara is former Chief of Staff at the Environmental Protection Agency. She joins the show to discuss the chemical emergency in Orange County, California, the role of federal environmental agencies during disasters, and the debate over whether states are politicizing their relationship with Washington when crises unfold.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome back to the Lars Larson Show. It's a pleasure to be with you, and I suppose in some ways a pleasure to say the state of California, which I think is under terrible governance in Gavin Newsum, California declares an emergency and then immediately calls the federal EPA, the same agency they've spent years attacking. Should the blue states get to trash Washington and then put it on speed dial the minute things go sideways? On that note, Mandy Gunestakara comes uh on the program again, former EPA chief of staff. Mandy, welcome back to the program.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, good to be with you, Lars.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Hey, if you think I've mischaracterized this at all, but this situation in Orange County, where they got emergency crews working to try and stop an overheating tank that's filled with toxic chemicals from leaking or triggering an explosion and all this. And the minute California gets in trouble, they call up the EPA and say, can you pull our chestnuts out of the fire?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah, uh that's that's exactly right. But, you know, um EPA, this is an instance where you have to set the politics aside and you have to make sure that you get in there and you take care of the safety of the people who could potentially potentially be severely impacted, and that's exactly what has happened. Now, the Orange County Fire Authority, the local agency, is the lead agency, but they have backup support um all the way up to US EPA. And I actually talked yesterday to the deputy in the Office of Land and Emergency Management at US EPA under President Trump, and he is fully briefed in, fully engaged. And this is what leadership looks like when a state, even a state run by lunatics that you politically disagree with, but when a state is experiencing a significant environmental issue, this is what leadership looks like. We didn't see this in the Biden administration, which is compare this to East Palestine, Ohio, and how that community was largely ignored and a very controllable issue became even worse. In this instance, you had a potential massive catastrophic explosion, and they instantly had the support of US EPA setting aside political differences, getting to work, and making sure that the safety of the of the citizens of the impacted area were prioritized and we're seeing that play out.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

I'm talking to Mandy Gunasakara, and she is uh former EPA chief of staff. So tell me this can you help me understand what's actually going on inside this factory? That they've got uh 7,000 gallons of a chemical and it's risen in temperature. It almost sounds like something out of a movie, you know, where you've got the the temperature gauge rising and somebody's got to do certain things to make it uh not blow up in their face. What happened here and how? Do we know?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, what what I understand is that um a pressure relief valve failed. And this is a really important part of industrial activity. We have this type of industrial activity that occurs all over the United States. And what listeners should know is that the men and women who work in those industries are highly trained and they actually plan for the situation. It's not what we want, but they have emergency plans in place and we're actually seeing that play out. So you have a pressure relief valve. Again, as I understand, that's the latest information failed. And so pressure begins to rise within a confined area. It's extremely hot because when you're working with these industrial level chemicals, um, I think in this instance, they are used to make parts that go on airplanes, um, something that's really important, uh, but nonetheless has its relative dangers. When pressure starts to build, it creates uh the situation we're currently in. So you've had emergency responders show up and they are trying to keep the temperature down. I think they've large they've successfully achieved that to the point where they're not worried about the massive explosion that was initially the case and initially required uh tens of thousands of residents in a pretty large area to be evacuated. It's much smaller now, but they're essentially trying to keep the temperature down, knowing that there is a falter pressure, faulty pressure relief. And as Administrator Lee Zelda, he said this, I think it was about two days ago, um, the tank is expected to fail at some point, but they want it to fail in a way that's not a massive explosion. They want to keep the temperature down and ultimately create a controlled failure where they are minimizing um the flammability and other characteristics of this chemical that they're dealing with. And they have people on site who know who know what type of substances to use to keep that temperature down, to try to relieve some pressure and to a and and to engage in a controlled sale so that they can minimize um first the safety risk and then second, potential negative impacts to the environment.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Wow. I mean, it almost sounds like the kind of thing they should have had is I mean, look, pressure relief valves are everywhere, hot water heaters, things like that. But in a big industrial facility on a 7,000 gallon tank, I'd almost think they'd have a backup pressure relief valve or something that would let them take care of this. But it i if they can get it to just what calmly fail instead of explosively fail at some point, and then they know what's inside of it and how it's going to react and what they have to do to make sure they don't get an explosion. I guess I just I get frustrated with states like California that are constantly either using the EPA against their own citizens and the rest of the country and then turning around and saying, but when we're in trouble, we call the EPA up and we get some help. But you're right, it's it's the right thing to do because California is still part of the United States of America, despite what Gavin Newsom might think.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, that's right. And that's that's to their benefit. I mean, think of how this administrated administration started. Um, while Lee Zeldin was walking into the EPA, California was literally on fire. Um, you you had the horrible Palisades fire, which they still haven't rebuilt from. Um, but nonetheless, there was a major environmental cleanup uh that had started as the administrator was going through the confirmation process. And I've actually talked to some of the appointees that said, you know, they they in record time were able to go in, and again, you have to contain um risk to people and to the environment. You have to set up effective communication and you have to try and uh control the derivate derivative negative consequences. And they were able to do that in record time. And again, it was California. So it is frustrating. Um, you know, Gavin Newsom keeps trying to be relevant by picking a fight with people who uh frankly, you know, don't want to think about him existing. He's running his state into the ground from an economic perspective, and then using environmental regulations as a means to control economic development. But when people are in harm's way and it's an environmental risk, this is what EPA and the emergency managers are trained to do. Number one, they've showed up, and then you've also had importantly leadership from the top from EPA administrator Lee Zeldon all the way down, showing up and listening and on what's happening and providing the resources to make sure that unnecessary harm does not occur.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Well, and I'm glad for that. Mandy, actually, the uh the uh the bright side, I try to look at the optimistic view. The bright side is Los Angeles may get a brand new mayor named Spencer Pratt uh to replace uh the very much failed Karen Bass uh because of what happened with the Palisades fire, although I hated to see all those people burned out of their homes. But then LA had a chance to make good on it, and they did not. I'm glad to see the Trump administration make good and say, even if it's California, when things start to go south, we will be there to help bail out California. Mandy, thank you very much. That's Mandy Gunisakara, who is the former EPA chief of staff, and we appreciate her coming on the show. Time to get your calls at 866-HLARS. That's 866-439-5277. Send your emails to talk at LarsLarson.com. Oh, and uh check us out on Instagram and on X as well at the Lars Larson Show.