Hannah Davis - Should illegal immigrants pay less for college than American citizens?

A federal appeals court says states can't give in-state tuition to illegal immigrants while charging higher rates to American citizens from other states. Should Oregon's similar policy be next?

Hannah Davis is Investigations Manager at the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). She joins the show to discuss the Fifth Circuit's ruling striking down Texas' in-state tuition policy for illegal immigrants, how federal law applies, and what the decision could mean for Oregon and other states with similar laws.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hey, welcome back to the Lawrence Larson Show. It's a pleasure to be with you. I want you to think about this for a moment. Let's say that your kids plan to go off to college. And if they say, Oh, mom and dad, I know I could go to an in-state school, but there's a great college or university that I want to attend. And your parents say, Well, that's an estate where you're gonna have to pay out-of-state tuition. So there's an advantage to paying in-state tuition. Usually it amounts to many thousands of dollars. Well, then along came illegal aliens, who many states have been granting in-state tuition treatment, even though they're not just out of state, they are out of country. So I thought we'd talk to Hannah Davis about that, investigations manager at the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Hannah, welcome back to the program.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Thanks for having me back on.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

What has the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, the Federal Appeals Court, said about giving illegal aliens a tuition break while American kids have to pay the higher amount?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

They said it's got to go. And it's pretty interesting that this law even existed. I think when people think about states that grant illegal aliens benefits, they think of less-lean states like New York or California. But back in 2001, under Governor Rick Perry, Texas passed a Dream Act, which essentially says that all illegal aliens in the state, if they qualify for residency, get interstate tuition. And so they were sued by the U.S. Department of Justice about a year ago, and the Fifth Circuit upheld that decision, and now that law has got to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

So it's it has to go, but that's only within the jurisdiction of the Fifth Circuit Court, so it doesn't apply to the rest of the country.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

That's exactly right. This binds federal courts in Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

But that's it. At that point, then should other states take a lesson from that and say if the Fifth Circuit has made that decision, maybe we should do it the same way? Or are they free just to say, no, we're going to continue to give a benefit to illegal aliens that we do not give to American citizen kids?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Well, I think it definitely sets a precedent for other states. It's persuasive, but it's not automatically binding per se. Um, for example, if a plaintiff wanted to challenge a similar law elsewhere in a different state, they most certainly should cite this circuit opinion and then see where that goes. And hopefully those states and other federal courts will agree with what the Fifth Circuit decided as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

So what do we need to do to get it to apply to the whole country? Does it have to be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and then we wait some time to see if the court will take it up and what their decision is?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Well, it actually already does apply to the entire country under section eight of the United States Code, which was codified by Congress back in 1996. So essentially what Texas was doing, uh their law conflicted with federal immigration law and the supremacy clause of the Constitution as a whole.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah, and in fact, I would think anybody would look at that and say we cannot apply different standards. Uh, you know, that error if if the Constitution effect effectively says you've got to have the same standards that everybody is equal under the law, how in the world could we give better treatment to illegal alien kids than we do to American kids?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

That's exactly right. And and what section eight of the United States Code says is hey, you know, you've got to ensure that that same benefit is available to all U.S. citizens and nationals irrespective of their residency, right? And so what these states are doing by granting illegal aliens and state tuition while ignoring out-of-state American citizens, it's just like skirting under the nose of the law. They're just totally derelictive duty. And so I think what needs to happen is that their plaintiffs challenge similar laws across nations.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Well, you you know what I'm inclined to do, but this will tell you, Hannah, I always tell my audience I'm not a lawyer. But how about this? What would happen to an American citizen kid? Say a kid in California wants to go to a school in Texas and applies and simply says, I'm an illegal alien. I'm going to assert that I'm illegally in America and claim that same status. I want the same treatment as the illegal alien kid would get. Uh if the if the college turned that student down and said, No, you don't appear to be an illegal alien. We're not going to give you the same treatment, then that student would be free to challenge it, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

I'm I'm not sure where how far they would go with that, but currently what it stands in Texas because of the Fifth Circuit's um decision is that if Joe Schmoe up in New York or New Jersey wanted to go to a Texas school and receive in-state tuition, they can now do so. And so I now I've never heard of anybody trying to come up come across as an illegal alien. It'd be interesting to see how that played out, though.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Well, I mean, Hannah, yeah, I've told my audience oftentimes that it seems as though illegal aliens are treated like first-class citizens, and Americans get second-class status in their own country because there are plenty of occasions there are 22 states that consider themselves sanctuary states where they say, Well, if you were arrested for, you know, for this crime, we would decide to prosecute you this way, but we're not going to prosecute illegal aliens that way because that might cause them to be deported from the country. So therefore, we're going to have different charging decisions, and that the illegal alien gets superior treatment to the citizen person who's charged on the same situation. So that certainly happens right now. Uh, and and I would hope that Americans at some point would get very, very angry about the idea that they don't even get equal treatment in their own country.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I think a lot of people are. I think a lot of Americans agree with what you just said, Lars, and it's because there's thousands of sanctuary jurisdictions across the nation that are prioritizing illegal aliens, that are handing them out benefits on the taxpayer dime. And people are fed up, not only with the crime, but their higher taxes and you know, high cost of living and housing is hard to get into now because of it as well. And so, but it luckily states like Texas, they saw through it all. You know, the DOJ sued them, and instead of fighting back, the Attorney General, Kim Paxton, immediately side with the administration. Well, and and what sorry. I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

No, I was just gonna say it surprises me that even though this was passed some time ago under Rick Perry, who is at least allegedly a Republican and a conservative, although I think there are reasons to question that, it surprised me that the Texas legislature has not seen fit to change it. They could, couldn't they?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, they definitely could have. You know, but this law's been on the books pushing 30 years, and I guess it's kind of surprising to me as well that it was just now be becoming challenged, but um, and it took a federal court to do so, I mean a federal administration to do so. Uh the DOJ cracked down, but at least Texas saw through it and agreed, and they didn't want to uh litigate the merits of the case. They basically did a consent decree, which is essentially a court-approved settlement. They agreed with the DOJ, they said it was wrong. I believe Mr. Paxton said that the pre-existing law in Texas was an insult to the nation's citizens, and is exactly right. So they're reversing course and they're doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Okay, so Hannah, how many other states have this same situation where they give in-state tuition treatment to illegal aliens, but anybody else from any other place in or in America is treated differently. Is this common in those 22 sanctuaries?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

I do not have the number offhand, but I can tell you it's extremely common. You know, they give benefits out the oazoo to these illegal aliens, and in-state tuition seems to be one of the hallmark of the sanctuary uh jurisdiction.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Well, I'd very much like to see that change, but Hannah, thank you very much for the work you do for FAIR.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Thank you very much for having me back on.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

You bet. That's Hannah Davis, who is investigations manager at the Federation for American Immigration Reform. FAIR has been one of the stalwart groups out there fighting for more than three decades on this issue to try to get some kind of sensible immigration policy for America. I mean, I currently have lots of people who will tell me you're anti-immigration. No, I'm anti-illegal immigration. Back in a moment. Glad to get your calls at 866-HLars. You're listening to the Lars Larson Show and the Radio Northwest Network.