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Brian Westbrook - Is Your Smart TV Spying on You Even When It’s Off?
•The Lars Larson Show
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Brian Westbrook, tech expert and longtime friend of the show, joins Lars to discuss a new investigation claiming LG smart TVs can collect data and potentially record audio even while the screen is turned off. How much information is your smart TV actually collecting about you?
Welcome back to Lars, Lars and Joe. So you think your TV set is off? Well, what does off actually mean? And could your TV set actually be listening to you when you think the machine is not even turned on and does not have electricity flowing to it? Well, a new investigation says your so-called smart TV could be actually listening in on you. So I knew it was time to check in with our tech expert, Brian Westbrook, who joins us now. Brian, welcome back to the program. Thanks, Lars. I'm always listening in on you. But I mean, I I know that for a lot of people they believe, well, this is just uh, you know, this internet uh rumor or hype uh that our uh smart TVs are actually listening to us, but it seems they actually are, aren't they?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and in some cases it needs to listen to you, and I'll get into that in just a moment. But I want to first start by saying that some 216 million TVs could be listening to what you're saying in the room, and there's a reason for it, but LG, the manufacturer of these TVs, has said, of course, it is not true that the TVs do not listen to you. And here's where it is actually paying attention, and the TVs are not, as you say in the intro, off off, and that has to do with the wake word. So all of these smart devices, whether it be a smart speaker, whether it be uh, you know, a toaster oven, or in this case your television, have to rely on you saying, Hey, I'd like to pay attention to this device. I'm talking to you. So it's rather than me calling you and saying, hey, Lars, you're saying, hey, name of device, right? And that wakes up the device. And that's the key point at which now the device is listening and transmitting information, what you say, the words, the commands, the instructions that you give this electronic device to the over the internet, to whatever service it is using, it's calling, maybe it's uh accessing programming or it's giving you information or the weather or that kind of thing. But without that wake word, the electronic device manufacturers will tell you it is not able to transmit to the internet and transmit out to the greater world. So effectively it's listening for that wake world, wake word, but it's not listening for anything else. Now that's what they'll tell you, but we as consumers have to trust that that is accurate. And in some cases, that may not be the case. And this Gamers Nexus report that says uh it is transmitting information is certainly not reassuring for those that uh are already a little bit paranoid about electronic devices spying on you.
SPEAKER_01
Well, and that's the other thing I'm curious about, because I I understand the point you're making that the the TV needs to be able to listen to fulfill certain functions if you want those functions. Yeah. But shouldn't those always be an opt-in so you buy the device and at some point during the, you know, when you're when you're first uh turning these devices on and they ask you what in what language you're speaking and what part of the world do you live in and all the rest of that garbage, that at some point they should say, by the way, we have a a mode that we can be in in which your TV set will listen for you to give it instructions if you want to turn it on. But unless you turn it on, we won't turn it on. But that's not the way they engineer these things right now, is it?
SPEAKER_00
That's correct. And the reason for that is quite simple because these are smart speakers, these are smart devices, and if you don't have that enabled, you're not getting quote unquote what you paid for. Now I think there is an opportunity, there is an appetite for two things. One for consumers to be more aware of what they're getting into and to actually read those screens that they're clicking next, because in a lot of cases you do have to approve the privacy, you do have to opt in. And I'm not suggesting that it's uh bold and center and front and obvious and it's clear English. Sure. Right. So I mean let's let's suggest that it's an eight-point font, and and maybe it does require a little bit of caution and a little bit of like, okay, what am I reading? Should I click on the privacy policy? Should I actually read what I'm agreeing to? And I think that's up to us as consumers. It's also up to the manufacturers to be a little more clear about what's happening under which scenarios. Even if I'm buying a smart device, I should have some reasonable assurance and and sort of a two-way street, if you will, of what this is doing and under what scenarios.
SPEAKER_01
Okay, and the other piece to this is you say it's not necessarily transmitting what you're saying or what it's hearing from you, but could somebody hack into it and say, I'm gonna listen in on what Brian Westbrook is doing at his home when he's unaware that I'm listening? Because that seems there are plenty of creepy people out there who'd probably do that even if there wasn't a financial, potential financial gain. And I would imagine there is a way to turn that into potential financial gain.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and and certainly that's a concern, and that's something we've seen in other scenarios. Remember, security cameras. You and I have talked about this over the years of things that can be hacked and can be exploited, that even if you are willing to sign up for that contract we just talked about, and you are willing to opt in or say, yes, this is a feature that I'm willing to accept, uh, that's that's assuming that everything is going correctly. And I think this brings me into, again, some consumer responsibility. And I don't want to I don't want anyone to walk away from this thinking that Brian is thinking that the consumer needs to uh be the only person responsible for this. It is a multi-funked problem here. But one of the things that we need to be careful with is a TV is not a TV that you and I grew up with anymore. It is a computer on the wall with the big display now. And that means it requires updates, it requires maintenance, it requires knowing exactly what it's doing. If you think that a TV is an appliance, you're wrong. It's a computer with a giant display. There is no such thing as a television anymore with the old turn knobs and the remote control that you could never find. Those days are long gone. If you have a TV in your house, consider it like any computer where you need to update it, you need to know what it's doing on the internet, you need to watch its traffic, and maybe if you're gone or you're having a sensitive conversation in the room, completely pull it from the wall, unplug it from its internet, turn it off, uh, disable the thing completely. I I mean if you're gonna be, if you're to telling trade secrets in your living room, maybe unplug your TV.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I guess the only thing I would like to see is I'd like to see the manufacturers say, We understand there are some people who completely reasonably want to have their privacy, even if if the hacking in may be only theoretical at this point, sure is it possible they're gonna start listening to that and say, we're gonna let you opt into this or not opt into it. Your choice.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and there already are some controls in the settings of most televisions that give you some flexibility, but I think this is a great case where you know these things do, they come back and forth and back and forth. This is gonna be a great conversation to have, and I think manufacturers are gonna respond to consumer pressure and say, we need to make it more transparent, we need to make it easier for guests to understand, for users to understand what their television is or isn't capable of doing, and let the consumer, let the person who's putting that TV on the wall in their living room decide how far into this uh this mess they want to get, or if they're, you know, perhaps they're perfectly acceptable. They're like, listen, if you want to listen in on my conversation, feel free. You're gonna be awfully bored.
SPEAKER_01
I mean, because I would imagine that the folks who run these big companies that make these TVs have probably read 1984. And they may, they may, in fact, have gone to college and they're aware that this is one of the spooky things that people, including George Orwell, said hey, what if someday uh the government or whomever could actually listen in on everything you say and do, and wouldn't that be scary? And then the other folks graduate from college having read 1984 and go off and start a company that actually puts this together. You can find his work at BrianWestbrook.com online. He is our tech expert and a longtime friend of the show. That's Brian Westbrook. Glad to get to your calls at 8266. Hey Lars, that's 866-439-5277. Send your emails to talk at LarsLarson.com. Coming up, Lindsay Clancy admits to killing her three kids, but jurors say the prosecution was too harsh. Can you believe that? We'll get to that in just a moment. You're listening to the Lars Larson Show and the Radio Northwest Network.
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