Episode 2: Saved by Her Students: The First Aid Story That Changed Everything

In this powerful episode of Beyond the Bandage, we sit down with Louise Jones—an experienced first aid trainer whose life came full circle in the most extraordinary way.

After years of teaching CPR and life-saving skills, Louise became the one who needed them most… suffering a sudden cardiac arrest while 26 weeks pregnant, right in front of her students.

What happened next is a story of courage, training, and impact that reaches far beyond one life.

This episode dives into:

•  The real-world importance of CPR training 
•  The ripple effect of saving a life 
•  Confidence vs hesitation in emergency situations 
•  Why AED access needs to change across Australia 

⏱️ Key Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction
What this episode is about: real impact, real stories, real lives saved. 

02:00 – Louise’s Background
From swimming and bronze medallion at 13 to becoming a lifelong first aid educator. 

06:00 – The Moment Everything Changed
Louise suffers a sudden cardiac arrest while pregnant in front of her students. 

10:30 – Students Save Her Life
Year 9 students perform CPR, teachers step in, and an AED is used—despite uncertainty due to pregnancy. 

16:00 – The Ripple Effect of CPR
One life saved becomes five lives impacted—Louise, her daughter, and three grandchildren. 

22:00 – Why CPR Training Matters More Than You Think
It’s not just about one person—it’s about families, communities, and future generations. 

28:00 – Storytelling in First Aid Training
How too many stories can distract—and how to strike the right balance to build confidence. 

35:00 – Building Confidence to Act
Why confidence—not perfection—is the most important outcome of training. 

42:00 – The Reality of Outcomes
Not every situation ends in survival—and why “doing your best” still matters. 

50:00 – The AED Mission
Louise’s role in pushing public access defibrillators across Australia—and why we still need more. 

58:00 – The Biggest Gap: AEDs in Homes
Most cardiac arrests happen at home—so why don’t more people have AEDs? 

1:05:00 – Industry Challenges & Collaboration
Why first aid training should be about saving lives—not competing for profit. 

1:12:00 – Final Message
“Any attempt at CPR is better than none.” 

💡 Key Takeaways

• CPR saves more than one life – the ripple effect can impact entire families and communities. 
• Confidence is everything – people don’t need to be perfect, they just need to act. 
• Do not hesitate – especially when it comes to using AEDs or performing CPR. 
• Training should be practical, not theoretical overload – hands-on experience builds real readiness. 
• AED accessibility is still a major issue – especially in homes where most incidents occur. 
• Any action is better than no action – even calling emergency services is a critical first step. 

🎯 Memorable Quote

“Any attempt at CPR is better than none.”

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone and welcome to Beyond the Bandage, the podcast where we go beyond the textbook and into the real stories, real people and real impact behind first aid. Because today we're not just talking about training, we're talking about purpose. We're talking about impact. And we're talking about what happens when the skills we teach truly come full circle.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Today we're joined by Louise Jones, a highly experienced first aid trainer and educator, whose story is nothing short of incredible. Louise is someone who has dedicated years to teaching life-saving skills, and in an unbelievable twist, became the person whose life was saved by those very skills. Louise, welcome to Beyond the Bandit.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Louise, your story. It is incredible. We attended the NIFAT conference in 2024, and you were the keynote speaker at that conference. I have been to many events in the past, and like you would agree, Dave. And the emotion and the suspense in that room, I've never seen anything like it. I'm so happy that you're here today, and I can't wait for you to share your story again. So let's get into it. Aways, tell us about tell us about you. Um tell us about your background. How did you get into this industry? What what what makes you uh want to be in the first day and training industry?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Great question. I started um in the industry by doing my bronze medallion when I was 13. And I came from a swimming background. And in the bronze medallion you learn how to save lives. Uh, not just drowning people, but you also learn CPR. And I was pretty amazed as a 13-year-old that you could push on the chest and breathe into people and that would help save a life. So I thought that was a pretty good skill to have, and I kept that going throughout the rest of my teens and became a teacher, and I trained those around me, my peers and and students, in CPR and first aid. And of course, never expecting that it would be used on me, not ever, I always thought that I'd be doing CPR on somebody else because you know I did patrols on the beach and all that sort of stuff. And uh when I was 30, I was 26 weeks pregnant and uh I had a sudden cardiac arrest. I just dropped dead in front of my year nine students in the classroom. And luckily for me, those year nine students had done their CPR course and their first aid course, and they knew exactly what to do. So they came to my aid initially, and then teachers came to my aid as well, and they performed CPR. The ambulance obviously was called, and the ambulance came with an AED, which they only had for six weeks, and they hadn't used as yet. So they came to the classroom and of course they saw that I was pregnant and they didn't know about AEDs and pregnancy, so they were a little bit hesitant about whether they should use the AED or not, because I was obviously pregnant, but they chose to give it a go. And of course, by giving it a go. Yes, by giving it a go, um I'm still here today. So I I say to everyone, you know, CPR's a really good skill to have because you never know when you're going to use it, let alone on yourself. But um yeah, I I ended up in hospital and you know the the baby was cesareaned out. Yeah. They weren't sure whether she would live or not because it hadn't been documented anywhere about defibing a pregnant lady. However, my story went to uh a conference over in Canada and uh they decided that AED was safe to use on women who are pregnant from from the story. From that story. Yeah, it was so good. Yeah, so don't be afraid if someone's pregnant, you know, you still do CPR and you still use that AED. And from that I then had to have my own defibrillator, and I had that for quite some time, 19 years, and it never went off. Never ever went off again. Um but my heart did start to struggle when I was about 49, and I went in to have a heart transplant. Wow. So now I'm very lucky because I'm sitting here with somebody else's heart, and it's a very good one. Um, and that little baby survived, and she's now a mum of three herself. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So um not only did my students save my life, but they saved the life of my baby, and of course, she's gone on to have three more kids. So there's at least five people who are alive today because of what my year nine students did in that classroom. Grade nine, wow. Incredible.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And yeah, and from that, there's so many things. I don't know about you, Dee, but there's so many things that just come into my head from what you've just said, because you said that there's five people. Um, there's yourself, your daughter, and your three grandchildren. Our grandchildren. Um and you know, when we when we are in the classroom, we're often um doing training about the person who who needs that help or assistance um that we're saving, of course. But then the the effect from that is much more than one person, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Exactly, exactly, and the quality of life is still there. Yeah. Um so by by having a go, you know, doing CPR and getting a D Feeb as quickly as you can onto that person, yes, you're saving their life, but you're also perhaps having an effect on other lives that they belong to. You know, they belong to a family, they belong to a community, um, you know, they they belong to a country, um, and they've still got a lot to give in that arena. So when you're performing CPR, it's not just to keep that person alive. Um you know, you've got you've got that person now being able to contribute for the rest of their life. So that's an important thing, I think, that people don't think about when it comes to performing CPR. It's it's very much focused on, you know, we need to save this life, which is great, but in saving that life, you're you're also contributing back to the community as a whole. And I think that's um a really good message to put across as to why you should know how to do CPR.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And and you take that um that that's that passion or that really strong sense of purpose, and you carry that with you uh following the experience that you've had um with those incredible students who were able to assist you. Um and again, it's it's so powerful to he to hear that. And yes, you do contribute, and which we'll definitely cover as we go uh throughout um today's episode, but you you definitely do um contribute, you do incredible things, um, and uh no doubt you have a widespread impact, you know, goodness knows how many lives you're saving with your training uh as well, Louise. And I guess on the on the sense of purpose uh and that passion, what are your thoughts around um, you know, you've got a trainer like yourself and you have that that story or that sense of purpose linked back to your experience. Do you think that that makes a difference in the classroom in terms of stronger outcomes for students? Because they're being trained by someone who has had that real world experience. Um, I guess being saved or treated by a lay person, um, and and ultimately has of course had their life saved.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yes, I I I know it does have an impact because um I do tell my story not every time, but I do tell it um usually at the end of my classes, of my training, and people are uh uh astounded, you know, when they realise that yeah, something has worked. And the good thing about it is that no one in the classroom is actually thinking about someone that they've saved because perhaps they haven't even done CPR yet or they haven't done first aid yet. Whereas when they hear that this person standing in front of them is the result of really good CPR and an AED, then it it really brings the importance of those skills home to them. And it's home. You can see it you can see it in their faces, you can see it in in how they react when they hear that story. And not only that, they they often come up afterwards and and say things to you about it. So I do know that it does have an impact on the classes that I teach. And yes, I'm very fortunate that you know I've I've got that real life experience to talk about. Um not everybody has got that, but it's for me the most important thing is that I instill confidence in those people to act. So when they can see that there's a great result of CPR with me, um, I think that really helps them to get their confidence up.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Absolutely, because they're seeing the other end of I guess their the spectrum in terms of all right, everyone's here to do training and they're here to do first aid, and for whatever reason that is, and and you know, typically it could be for for work reasons or purposes and they have to be there.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Um but knowing that there's a good result at the end of it is is linking it all together, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Absolutely, yeah, and and and and it hits home, like it really hits home, and then yeah, people people go home, um and and don't forget that that that it does make a difference. Absolutely. And and and I guess that's the part I love uh about your story. Um, and I love that you you you did say as well that you're you're fortunate to have the story, um, and understand that that that links to now you're able to actually help people and and spread the the love or the first aid um love across the country. Um but in terms of in terms of storytelling, uh this one's always a an interesting one because we we've all been to first aid training courses where you know, of course we've had excellent experiences, but at times we sit through training where we're having to hear lots of different stories from people who have also been fortunate to have those stories, of course. But sometimes it they're perhaps not always relevant in the sense that first aid training and CPR training, we're training lay persons or lay people to respond um before the paramedics arrive. So to to to respond in instantly before paramedics arrive. We're not training paramedics, uh, and I think that that's the key here. Um, and I think that that's often where where we do get lost in the thing, is um because perhaps we're you know going over and uh above or beyond what we're actually trying to get at, and that's just training someone to act quickly uh and before someone or before help arrives essentially. Do you think that um from your perspective, do you think that it adds value um or distracts from learning if we're telling too many stories? And I guess how do we how do we strike a balance, especially when we're training uh paramedics, um, but essentially everyday people, how do we strike that balance of giving them confidence to act in the real world versus giving them too much information via storytelling that may not actually be be relevant?

SPEAKER_00 13:15

I think it's important to to make sure you've got that balance right. A lot of people in the class, they don't want to hear all the stories that you've got. They've got stories too, and sometimes their stories can keep coming up. So as you are the presenter out the front, I think you you need to see what's relevant, you need to see what may be interesting, uh, of course you need to keep it real, but you also need to keep track of the time because if you listen to all those stories, then your courses are going to be awfully long. Yeah. So you need to be prepared for people to tell their stories, but you also need to be prepared to be able to cut them off at the right time as well. Read the room. So read the room, exactly. So I don't often tell my story in the middle of the course for that reason, because you know it's it I can make my story as long as you like. I can tell you, you know, about the questions that doctors ask me, like count backwards from 100 by 7s, etc. Um there's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

We've heard the 40, what, 45-minute version of your story? Was that how long you were the keynote speaker for at the conference? Yes, yeah, yes. For sure, for sure. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

And that's the thing. And so sometimes um if you're the presenter, you you you don't want the focus to be on you. You want to instill confidence in your students to act. That's the most important thing. You want them to be able to do something because we can have as many paramedics as we like in the world, but the paramedics have got to get there. When you're talking about the lay person, they are first on the scene. And lay people need to have the confidence to be able to act in that moment. And no one's there to tell them what to do, no one's there to take over. You need to instill that confidence. And so some stories will help instill that confidence. Other stories can take too long, can distract, and if the same person is telling all their stories all the time, the rest of the students in the class start to fall asleep. Yes, they get a interesting. Well, they lose interest, you know. So I guess as a professional, it's one of the things that you need to be able to do in reading the room in knowing when you can step in and and cut that story off to move on to the next point that you want to make as the presenter. So I think it is it is a fine balance, um, but you need to be able to do that. And sometimes it may come across as um perhaps you're being a bit abrupt because you've cut the story off. But at the same time, if you've got some lead-in um ideas or sentences that you can add to, then it doesn't come across as being so abrupt. So I think it's a it's a manner of presenting for quite some time to know what you can do, experience. Exactly, and what and what works and what doesn't work. What's waffle and what's real. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Because you've probably heard some of the stories before, so you know sort of how to segue to the to the next topic. Um one thing that that before we we we caught up today, um you you mentioned to me uh about the uh when you're uh training in the classroom and as part of your storytelling, you made a really good point, and I really appreciated it that everyone in the classroom was equal. Yeah. You're you're just there essentially just to help guide them on how to help someone. Um and perhaps by I guess taking the class through your story from the beginning or a story that again is beyond the level of training that our first aid trainers need, that sometimes that can impact the student's confidence. Absolutely, right? And as you said, it it's so important that everyone's equal in that classroom, you're all there for the same outcome, uh, and as you put it, it it's you know, teaching people or training people on how to act when someone's in need or to save lives.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Exactly. And when somebody's confronted with a situation, you don't know how you're going to act. You you can have all the training in the world and you you might freeze. Yeah. You might be relaxed enough to be able to go into your training. And that's another level altogether. So you need you you are training them to have the confidence to act more than anything, so that they will do something and they feel like they are contributing in a better space. So you can't you can do as much training as you like, but there's nothing that you can do to how someone might react when they see that trauma or they're in that traumatic situation. Everybody reacts differently, everyone's got their own sense of what they can do, when they can do it. And I think we need to, as trainers, we need to appreciate that. Because we're in we're in a classroom where things aren't real, you know, they're not seeing gory blood, they're not seeing, you know, um insides hanging out, they're not seeing someone who's blue and grey and purple and things they haven't seen before. Exactly. So it's it's much easier to go through that that CPR process and the bleeding and everything else that we do when we're t teaching. Um so my idea is that I I really relate to building that confidence that they can do something. And I say to them, even if you can ring triple zero on the spot, yeah, that's better than doing nothing.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

That's something, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Exactly. It's something that's really important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Absolutely. Um and in relation to so stud you've you've trained so many students over the years, right? And no doubt you've had students let you know that they've had to save someone or they've had to act um for a child for their for their child, for their family member, colleague, you know, in the community. How does it feel when you hear those words? Your training helped me save someone else's life. I have to say it fills me with immense pride.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

I cannot imagine. There's nothing the I'm I'm so proud of students who come back and tell me those stories. Um, particularly, I went back to the school to meet those year nine students, and it was one of the emotional times of my life that I will never ever forget. And each of them wanted to tell me how they felt. Um, but they contributed to saving my life and that of my child. And of course, when I went back to the school, I had this little baby in my arms as well, so it really hit home to those students. Um stuff. Um and I I can I I can't be grateful enough for what they did. But I have heard those stories from I've I've trained tens of thousands of people. I've been training since I was 16. So that's nearly 50 years of training. And I have had people come back and say, Oh, I had to use what you taught me, thank God I did your course, those sorts of comments. And it does make me feel pride and and very proud because if I hadn't taught those people, there'd be another person who's still in trouble, you know? And so I feel as though teaching the the courses gives me a sense that I'm doing something good for not only for the students that are there, but for other people who may be helped by those students. So it it does create in me a sense of I'm giving back. But I've always been giving back. I volunteering has been in my blood since I was born, I think. Yeah. You live and breathe that. Yeah, I do. I do. So I think that's I think that's really important when you when you hear the hear the good stories coming back. But I also hear the ones that aren't so good because you don't always save everybody. We all know that, you know. Um and people will say I did my best and I say that's all you're required to do. You do your best at the time and whatever that may be and you can't be responsible for that outcome because you're doing your best nobody knows what any of the underlying diseases or injuries are. And so you know it makes it it it it makes it hard when you don't get a good outcome but I've had you know in my experiences I've had good outcomes I've had bad outcomes. You can't dwell on those. All you dwell on is I gave it my best shot at the time and that's the result. And of course sometimes you don't even hear about the result especially if the person's taken off into the ambulance you don't hear anything back.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Absolutely and that's a sad thing as well because often when you're a first aider you'd like to hear what happened to them you know yeah and and as you say it's it's about it's about having a go and by absolutely showing up doing a first aid course being there doing CPR that's the best chance of a result right like that that's the best chance that you can possibly have correct um and of course ensuring that um I know the students can ensure this but us as training providers who are responsible for for the students outcomes is um quality. You know it's ensuring that a really good point you mentioned earlier that if there's too many stories it it takes too long. And as we talked about in one of our previous episodes then there's not enough time at the end. So everyone's rushing to get out of the classroom and they haven't had enough time on the mannequins or on practical hands on so yeah that um that retention um can can certainly be be difficult then if they're not getting the opportunity to actually practice.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Correct and it often distracts from your real purpose you know your real purpose is to make sure these people have got some some skills um to be able to act that's you know the most important thing you have the skills you can act this is how you do it if you if you're focusing too much on your stories as a presenter or the students' stories you're distracting from the real reason why you're in the classroom yeah I I couldn't agree more yeah and an ego can kick in sometimes absolutely and yeah we've all been there right it it's it's not always pleasant um and doesn't lead to the outcomes of of C wives that's right absolutely yeah correct um Lou you were one of the first people in Queensland that implemented the AED in the Queensland Parliament can you tell us how that happened? Yeah it was interesting um mind you to do all this you have to survive CPR right well step one yeah so I spoke at the um CPR 2000 conference and it's it seems so funny now that we're we're talking about this in 2026 and uh of course this happened to me in 1990 and um in 1998 I was asked by the Queensland Ambulance Service to tell my story at the conference that they were running because Queensland Ambulance back then they wanted one in every four people in Queensland to know CPR and first aid but in particular CPR and the AEDs were in their early form then yes the ambulances had them but they were starting to come out for public access and I was seen as the face of the public access AEDs and so I was contacted by the Queensland government to go to Parliament House and speak to all the parliamentarians about CPR and AEDs so they would roll out a program right across Queensland and so the very first AED was installed in Parliament House and then we installed one in the Roma Street parklands and from there it grew for public access DFibs across Queensland yes that's unbelievable. Yeah it is unbelievable but I also did one for Australia as well in Canberra so I was I was flown in to meet the Governor General at the time and uh I did a big session with him showing him how to do CPR I had the governor general on his knees on the floor and um as you do as you do and I showed him how to do uh CPR in at Government House um in Canberra and from there became the uh program to push AEDs right across Australia into the public arena and of course that's many years ago now you know we're 26 years post 2000 um and we still don't have AEDs everywhere where they should be accessible yeah I won't I won't stop pushing um until I'm satisfied that there's as many AEDs as there are fire extinguishers around Australia. So I will keep pushing for that. What's your next step? My next step one of the things that we haven't done is look at AEDs in households and given that most sudden cardiac arrests happen within the home and normally to your partner or one of your family members that's that's statistically proven and so you know we have our fire extinguishers in our home we have our first aid kits in our home but how many of us have an AED in our home and I know it many people would say well it's a new thing yes and when they first came out they were cost prohibitive they were very very expensive. The very first AED I had was twelve thousand dollars now yes I do understand that but AEDs these days are you know around$1500 maybe even$1200 so I'm I I often say to people well how much did you spend on that gorgeous TV that you've got over there? Exactly the TV isn't going to save your life two or three times that will end up yeah so one of the one of the gaps that's missing big time is AEDs in homes and I think that's important. I think that's really important given that sudden cardiac arrest is one of our biggest killers you know 33,000 people a year a busload of people a day across Australia. Now think about that a busload of people a day go down with sudden cardiac arrest and we are not saving those people when you know our numbers are around five percent or less I'm very lucky I'm very lucky but again CPR was given to me straight away the AED was in the ambulance only six weeks because of Kerry Packer and the Packerwackers. That's why it was there. That's why it was there so we need to get the message out there they're not difficult to use anyone can use an AED. I have trained primary school children on using an AED so we really need to push a lot harder to get more AEDs out into the community bus stops taxi ranks I know the shopping centres do it quite well but it needs to be government backed and government pushed I don't know that the governments will pay for them but um there's no reason these days I don't believe that anyone wouldn't have an AED themselves and I have I have one I've always had one ever since I was survived I I survived by somebody using one and I keep mine in my car because my car's at home it doesn't move I know exactly where it is and if I go anywhere it comes with me. And I don't even have to think about it but I know that I've got it I know that I will use it at any point in time and I'm I'm very glad that I have one on me at all times because it it will help somebody and so it you know if you think of it that way then I think we can fill that gap pretty easily but there's lots of other things that we can do as well.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

There's a lot of different apps on the market isn't there there's like the good Sam the Greg from uh the yellow wiggles guy Guy Leach they all have different incentives to help with those AEDs out in the community um what else can we do there?

SPEAKER_00 31:53

I think one of the one of the things that uh the government needs to look at is perhaps everyone having a first aid certificate to get their license. Yep. You know our 16 year olds get their L's in New South Wales and they go on to red peas and then they go on to green peas at no point do they need to have a first aid certificate and yet they are our most vulnerable people on the road. Yeah absolutely so there's no no incentive there's no requirement at all I'd I'd like to see it right across Australia it needs to be a federal government initiative um that way we will cover a lot of people because most people drive um those under sixteen very very solid point yeah yeah um those under sixteen can possibly get trained through school still absolutely and don't be afraid to train kids in primary school primary school kids don't understand that death is permanent they haven't they they don't grasp that yet and so if you can show them at least how to call for help uh what to do um you'd be surprised at how smart those young kids can be I I've been I I've been absolutely gobsmacked sometimes when I teach those younger kids uh about their own initiative they they do they do want to help people and they do understand when something's not right and they do talk about it but they don't have that understanding that this could lead to death. Yeah and so they they're not afraid to try they're not afraid to do anything about it you see they don't have that blocker that flight or fight mode just kicking in yet. Yeah that's exactly it so you know we can we can create Australia to be one of the safest and AED friendly countries in the world. I know that there are enclaves of cities and all that sort of thing around different places in the world but Australia's such a big place and it takes our paramedics and our ambulances so much longer to get to places. I know they've introduced you know the motorbikes etc with the AED and the and the oxygen but wouldn't it be great if the AED was right there you know it'd be fabulous. More accessible at the tenn at the tennis court at the sporting field like it's right there and everybody knows that it's there it's a it's the thing that you are aware of you know that there's going to be a fire extinguisher well why isn't there an AED right next to it you're you're more likely to use the AED than you are the fire extinguisher so it makes sense to have those AEDs out there.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

No this one Louise really makes you stop and think so you mentioned a while ago um some stats we should we could train more people we talked some numbers of um you know people that live in Australia so we have around 28 million people in the country and fewer than five percent are trained in first aid and CPR which it is crazy to to to think it's it's really really low numbers. 5% wow yeah um and it at the same time it us as training providers whether you're an RTO or whether you're a training partner of an RTO we often find ourselves competing in a market um and and sometimes I'll be honest I've I've found myself on the on the worst side of that um which is which you know isn't isn't always great um how do you think how do you think um things could change in this country if training providers and RTOs focused more on collaborating and working together instead of against each other do you think that that is ever something that could happen?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

I do yeah I do think I do think that is something that could happen and the main reason I think that it could happen is because we're talking about people's lives here and if you really get to the nitty gritty of it it's you know it's saving lives or not. That's a pretty big issue and one of the things that I do do in my courses is I throw a lot of things back on people. So I say to my students would you like me when when it comes to uh for example the breathing is optional in CPR yeah and I say to people what would you like me to do chestnut what would you like me to do for you would you like me to breathe or not breathe I'm I'm doing CPR in you now do you want me to breathe for you or not? Absolutely. And when you throw it back on them you you get a very honest answer. And I think that's what we need to do with all our RTOs with first aid we need to look at it and say we are here about saving lives. That's what we're here about. Even first aid if you're doing somebody up for bleeding you're still saving a life if you're doing asthma you're still saving a life so why can't we see that as the bottom line rather than the competition? Or the other bottom line. Yeah which is money which is sometimes the the issue right I and I hate to say it but one of the things I really don't like is the amount of money that people have to pay to do first aid courses to do CPR courses. It's getting to the point of being prohibitive for some people many of my clients are elderly retired people and they're not wealthy people they find it even though I run the courses voluntarily I they're still charged by the group and it's very low cost. But even so some of them still you know huff and puff about that because what are they going to miss out on to be able to afford their course. So I don't think I don't think money should be the prime mover and I know when first aid came out into the vet sector and all these little companies started popping up everywhere seeing that they could oh we can make real quick money here great money which I saw too but I chose not to do that because I I thought gee imagine if there was money put on what those students did for me. Imagine if there was money put on what I do sitting on the beach patrolling. Imagine if there was money put on me being a lifeguard at a pool and I'm there to save a life yes I get paid to do that but I really don't think in order for me to get the skills to be able to do that that the bottom line should be money. The bottom line is we we need to learn we need to have everybody knowing how to save lives what to do in an emergency that's what we need and if I had my way it'd be free. Yeah but of course you know we've got certificates and we've got Ascra and we've got all those things that come into it now and so some money has to be made in order to fund those expenses that we've got but some of the prices are exorbitant I have to say and and they're profit making and I I I don't for the life of me get why we we're trying to make profits out of running first aid courses when it's all about saving your life and often I'll say to the person well you know do you want me to save your life or are you happy to make your 120 or your 140 or your$180 off me you know you want to take the money off me do you want me to do the compressions on you? Do you want me to wrap you up with a bandage?

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Do you want me to discount saving a life?

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah exactly maybe I won't do 30 and two. Maybe I'll just do 10 and think about giving you one breath. Yeah you know that's right exactly because it costs too much exactly yeah exactly so I can't the the money issue drives me crazy but the like ways yeah and the competition you know I think the competition makes all the different RTOs be apart rather than together and yep and there's no one's got the right to say oh we do a better first aid course than somebody else nobody's got that right as I as as I believe how do you prove that yeah exactly and it comes down to the person in the room in the classroom how well do they get the message of doing first aid across to their students your bottom line is to instill the confidence in those students it's not about telling your stories it's not about how much money you're paid it's not about which RTO you're with it's not about any of that all you want to do is to train those students that you've got to act in one way or another and hopefully in a good positive way and get a good positive outcome. That's the bottom line that we're talking about. So I think we will see a big shift in times to come where I don't know whether it's the government's responsibility I've no idea but we need to put the emphasis back onto what we're really there for. And that's where all my training comes from it's what I'm really there for. And the interesting thing is I had that before my story because I started training when I was 16 and my story didn't appear until I was 30. So I was already on that path and in fact the the first few first aid courses that I ran they were free and I I can't remember when the whole money monetizing came in but um you know some people can do first aid courses for eighty dollars other people are charging a hundred and eighty dollars does that hundred dollar difference make you a better CPR person or a better bandager or you know well that's it it's yeah what what are you paying for? Exactly what are you paying for?

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah absolutely really good point in in relation to who's responsible and I have to say for me personally or professionally I feel responsible in that as the um I guess the the the rep representative of our training organization just as an example or as a training provider I feel a great sense of responsibility in ensuring that I don't enter into that type of thing that the purpose is clear and whether that's across our organization with our with our partners with the team our purpose is very very clear and yes like any business Business, there is that um monetary aspect to it, but that's not the focus. The focus for us is quite simply preventing injuries and saving lives. Yeah. And as it should be. Yeah. And for me, there is a great um sense of responsibility to collaborate and get on with other training providers in the sense of registered training organizations. Um I feel like we do that well, uh, for the most part, yeah. Where we can. Um again, I can't speak to every other organization and how they do things. Um, I know there are certainly some organizations that are remotely and completely not interested in that. Um, and that's their prerogative. But for me, it it really is about how can we how can we have a better Australia? How can we save more people? How can we prepare more people to save others? Um, and one thing I do have to say, um, Andy Payne's from the National Institute of First Aid Trainers, NIFAT, where I referred to at the start in relation to your story, I I really do admire his work. Um, he has a conference every two years, and um, he brings people together from across the country, whether they're a training partner, they're an RTO, and everyone gets together, and everyone in the room's there for the same reason. Exactly. Uh, and I love to see that. Yes. Uh, and and and him and his team are really good at that, and they've really started to ramp things up in that space. Um, again, which can only be beneficial and positive. Absolutely straight. Um, but yeah, look, it is, it is, it can be um disappointing to to see the I guess the um the undertone uh at times, um, but at the same time, uh, I think for us and and no doubt for yourself, Louise, over the years, you choose not to focus there. You don't buy into that.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

No, I don't buy into it.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Focus forward. Exactly. It's clear, yeah, purpose is clear, no distractions.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

And I've I've worked for lots of different RTOs, and it doesn't bother me really what their focus is, because I know what my focus is, and I will always keep my focus right there front and centre. And yes, I go in and I teach, but I have sometimes I'm clueless about what the students have paid to do that. I wouldn't have a clue because I've just been asked to present the course. Um so I think it's I think it's important that uh yeah, Andy's doing a great job, but we need to do more. We absolutely do need to do more. Maybe it's something that the Australian Resuscitation Council could take up. After all, they are the major group for resuscitation across Australia, they make the guidelines. Um maybe it's something they could take up and put under their wing and say, hey, you know, our bottom line, yeah, come together. Our bottom line is to save more lives, to be able to act in the situation, to get everybody to be able to help out in a situation. Not to not focused on, well, I'll set up my RTO and see how much money I can make. Yeah. That's that's that's wrong. That's just not that that's not where it's at.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

See how many people we can get through the door, how many people will join our organization? No, it's it's how many people are we impacting in a positive way. Absolutely. And I guess So do you you think uh people forget? Do they get caught up in the midst of business and forget? Or do they set out to make money in the first place? Like probably a bit of both, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

I think it's a bit of both, actually. And I'm not sure that the students have that in mind. You know, your students, your students are coming to you to learn skills.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

That's what they're for there for. They're not thinking about the money. Well, they may have thought about the money when they had to pay for the course, but I'm I'm certain that that's not their focus either. The students' focus is they want to learn those skills. And whether it be that they have to, because they have to hold a certificate for their work or for whatever volunteering they might be, some people have to be there, you know. Other people choose to be there. Even so, their focus is still on I need these skills.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

I don't need to be worried about whether I'm the hundredth student through the door and therefore you've made your Christmas presents this this year, you know. That's that is the wrong focus for first aid. You know, first aid is about saving lives, it's about helping people, and and as I said before, and and you reiterated that my saving my life being saved ended up being five. So for every life that you save, you don't know how many how many people have been impacted by that. Exactly. And so and and that mar that may get those people to go and do training that they haven't got either, because oh wow, so that that lady was saved by her year nines, her 14 and 15 year olds, their teacher, you know, massive boobs and all that because she was pregnant. You know? Can you imagine what was in front of those kids when I went down like that? I mean, they saw something that they had never seen in their life and have probably never seen since. And it's your teacher. Wow. That's scary. That was scary for them. It was very shocking to them, and yet they stay c stayed composed enough to be able to do something. Yeah. So that says something about their training, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

The bottom line there wasn't money, the bottom line there wasn't time. It you know, their focus was to do what they had been trained to do, and they did it well. Same with the two teachers who came in, and it's interesting that those two teachers had just upskilled themselves six months before.

unknown 50:51

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

So it it just goes to show, and I'm sure those two teachers weren't thinking about anything else either. No, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, I think sometimes we lose what the focus is really all about. You can do training in all sorts of things, you know, you can your white card, your green card, all those sorts of things. Yep. But first aid, you're you're looking at really what's the focus here. It's to not do any further damage to the person, it's to try and act within your skills framework to help that person. And I don't think you can put a price on helping somebody.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

It's so powerful. It it it really is, and it comes back to the person who's steering the ship. And in this case, when you're a trainer, you're steering the ship. Absolutely, you're driving the purpose. Um and I'd say for me, steering the ship, ensuring that our team focus on the quality um and the support for for people like yourself, Louise, so that we can um, you know, uh support you to to remain um focused on what you're trying to achieve in the classroom, and that is again the the student outcomes. Um Absolutely, yes. Which which is incredible. I I love how you framed that and again it it sort of brings you back through the previous questions that we had around you know, does your experiences or your whether you know you had the experience that you have uh like you shared in your story or your passion, because clearly it was there from day dot when you wanted to become a lifesaver at 13 and you had to wait six months, which you shared with me, I think, um prior to the to the session. But that that passion is is very clearly there, um, and um it it's incredible. As a as a trainer, um, in terms of of your your legacy as a trainer, um if you know you you you also you obviously have um lots of students um or you've trained a lot of students over the years, I should say, and very clearly for you it's not a tick and flick exercise. I think it's very very clear that that is not the case. Never mind. No, never has been. Um and we know that you're one of those really good trainers, and we're so proud. Um, you know, we wish that you know there were so many more people like you in the country. Um if you could hope for one thing, Louise, that each of your or one of your or each of your students um would say that they take away from completing a training course with you or training with you, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 53:42

I think that they feel as though they're able to do something in any situation that confronts them. I I always ask my class at the end, do you feel more confident than when you came in here today? And the answer is always yes. And I say to them, Because if it's no, let me know. We'll go back over the parts that you need to be more confident in. I want you to leave here feeling confident that you have the skills to be able to act. And that's the most important thing for me. Whether you know, the whole tick and flick thing, that that was in about 30 years ago, and I really didn't like it. Um my when I'm conducting my classes, you know, I go to every single student. I go round to every single student, and I don't care how long it takes me, I go round to every single one of them, and I tell them where they've done something correctly, and I say to them, Oh, see that bit there? You just need to you just need to twist that that way, or you or you you need to do this. I give them the options of being able to fix what they've done. Because what is the best way to teach? It's when the person is able to teach themselves or teach another person. And so I I make sure that my students have got that ability, and so I get them to work in pairs with everything, and I make sure that they're all looking at each other all the time. And I'm not nasty about it in any way, shape, or form, because if you're giving it a go, then you're having a go, you're doing it. You're you can't blame people for the way that they do it because you you've got to add the shock and the whole you know, scenarios on top of that, which we don't do in a classroom. But you can see people actually really wanting to know how to do it. Yeah. If you instill that confidence in them. So I think that's the bottom line of all of it.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

Is they're prepared and and you ultimately would love to hear them say, I I've walked away from class feeling prepared to act.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I asked that's why I asked the question at the end of every class.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

At the end of every class. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Would you would you when you go outside that door now, would you act if you saw somebody in trouble? Every one of them says, Yes, I know what to do. Yes. They would know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

And I've said earlier, if that's as uh minimal as calling triple zero, yeah, that's that's get that gets it started. Yes, yes, absolutely, yeah, yeah. It's um it's incredible, and I think that's keeping it um as simplified as possible, um, as to the point as possible. Absolutely. And hands-on. Yeah. Right. Because you know, you learn by doing. Absolutely. And yeah, I think I think that that's where people um from you know what you've just said, that's where people are most likely to be able to act is if they're given that opportunity um for for that that good training. Yeah. Um and yeah, being able to to practice as well. And students aren't stupid.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

Students can tell if you are enjoying what you're doing. If you want to be there. Yeah, they can't do that. You know, agenda is there. Yes. And my students can tell how passionate I am about it. They can tell that I love instilling the skills into them. That they can just see that by the way I teach and the way I manage my classroom. And I think that's important as well. If the students can really trust you, if they have a rapport with you, if they can really relate to you, they're going to learn a lot better and and quicker. And they're going to set bars for themselves to do this really well. And I think that's up to the the presenter who's up in front of them. Show them. Show them that you are that sort of person.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

You're you're building that trust so they can have confidence and you know retain that information.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

100%.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

They can tell if you want to be there or not. Yes. Yes. And that um obviously then that have um means whether they want to be there or not. Correct. Absolutely. Um, absolutely. No, Louise, statistically, um, and you mentioned this a little bit earlier in relation to your own story, but statistically, women are less likely to receive CPR. Um talk to us about that. Tell us a bit more um about the statistic and why.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Yeah. So of course, women have their breasts right where you need to be able to do CPR. And of course, if you're going to apply an AED, you need to have a bare chest. And of course, some people are a little bit hesitant to reveal the chest and to be pushing in the centre of the chest, which is what they need to do. However, your your hesitation is going to add to the time where you're not doing compressions. And every time you're not doing compressions, you're not saving the life. So it's really important to think about that this person is a person, whether it's male or female, it shouldn't matter. And I know that it does to some people. However, if you've got your little handy kit, um you snip the bra at the straps up here, so you're able to access the area, and you can access to be able to put on the uh pads from the D D fib as well. Um, but as far as CPR goes, I can tell you that in my situation they were both male teachers, and they didn't really they they didn't even think about it. One thing they did say was, because I've always been known to be flat-chested, very skinny person, they said, we couldn't believe you had two big blue bazookas poking out for us to deal with. They said, We always thought that you, you know, you were flat-chested, but we forgot that you were pregnant. That's right. Yeah. So when they told me that, you know, a couple of months later, I all I could do was laugh. But it didn't, you know, at the time in the situation, it it didn't come across. And so I think what we need to do, yes, we've got time to think about um modesty, but you can only do that if there's something around for you to create that modesty. Most of the time you're not carrying anything that's going to create that modesty. Um, so what are you going to do? You are you going to wait till someone can hold up a screen or a sheet or or something like that? Or are you you you're going to wait until someone bigger or better than you is going to come and and do CPR? Women need CPR just as much as men. And regardless of whether there's boobies or bras in the way, they need to be taken out of the way. They just need you you just need to put the heel of your hand in the centre of the chest and push hard and push fast. I mean, you could also say the same thing for um breathing on a person, you know, you're kissing somebody that you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Um modesty's out the window.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

Exactly, exactly. Modesty is out the window. And when you're on the beach or you're at the pool, you don't know who those people are, you don't know where those people have been.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

Um, most of the time, if you're a lifeguard, then you've got a mask. That's fine. But if you're a lay person, it's it's your choice whether you go there or not. Um, but when it comes to CPR and you know you've got to apply CPR, I think we need to get over the idea that because it's boobs, it's it slows me up. You know, I have to hesitate. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

Do not.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

Do not still in the same position.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

Exactly. And had they hesitated with me, not only would they have lost me, they would have lost my child as well. And so I think thank God those students, and half of them were boys. Um, those students and those two teachers did what they did. Didn't hesitate. It did not hesitate. And that's an important message to get across. If it's a female, don't hesitate. Go for it. Get on with that. She's just as important as anyone else. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:10

Absolutely. Exactly. Absolutely. Well, are your thoughts on the female mannequins?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Well, I think that's a good idea. I mean, I haven't in all the years I've been training and in all the mannequins that I've used, I've never thought, oh, why haven't they got boobs? To be honest, it never crossed my mind. It didn't never even cross my mind. Well, the focus on the centre of the chest, right? Yeah, the focus is on the centre of the chest. And umce upon a time we used to say uh centre of the chest between the nipples. They drop the between the nipples part. And I understand why. I used to say to my class, well, if it's an older person, be very careful because you could be you could be pushing on their tummy and going between the nipples.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

How can they explain that? Yeah, how can they explain that?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

But centre of the chest, yes. And you wouldn't mind if they I mean, once upon a time all the mannequins were white or or light coloured skin. Now you can get dark coloured skin, etc. etc. So I think as our as our first aid evolves, we're going to get better and better and better. I mean, we we've got better defibs now than we had when they first came out. We've got better everything. Um, so I think, you know, moving forward with female uh mannequins, yes, that may that may change the idea of the modesty. People might then start to think, yeah, I if I don't get on that chest, this person's not going to live. So therefore, whether they've got a a flat chest or a mountainous chest shouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

You need to get on there and do CPR. So yeah, whatever they can do to improve the outcomes of CPR, I'm all for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

Yeah. All for it. It's it's um, I don't know if you've seen lately as well, and it's really new, but um NIFAT, the NIFAT team, uh, they are launching an initiative, Boobies, not barriers. Yeah, I've heard of that. That's what it's called. So it's good, it's great. Can't wait to follow that initiative and and um champion it in any way that that we can um and throughout our network because because again, that's that's more um insight, that's having it front of mind um where possible. And going back to I think the three words that I've taken from that is do not hesitate.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Exactly. And we must remember too, cardiac arrest does not discriminate. You can be any age, any gender, any colour, any race, anything. It doesn't discriminate. You can have five year olds have a sudden cardiac arrest, ten year olds, thirty year olds, you can have eighty year olds from anywhere. It happens right across the globe. It's the number one killer in the world. We we need to be able to address that by not hesitating, by getting on and doing it. So just as many women as men are open to sudden cardiac death. Simple as.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

Do not hesitate.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

Absolutely. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Well, hopefully the new mannequins do help uh the rest of the community like put their hands on and really be proactive with that have a go. Female CPR. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, Lou, you have been a partner with ABC for a long while now. Can you tell us about your partnership?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

I was looking for a new um RTO and I looked up, you know, I used the computer to look it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

And so it's been a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

So uh this ABC kept popping up. I knew of many others because I'd worked in their in their um organization, and this ABC just kept popping up, and I thought, I haven't clicked on that and I don't know what it is. So one day I decided to click on it and made the inquiries, and the setup was just so perfect for me that I couldn't resist. It was simple as that. I just went, wow, these guys seem to have something different. Their focus is not on a money-making RTO, it's it they really do have the focus, you know. And so that's what made me dive in because I I looked at it and went, yeah, these guys, you can run it yourself, um, you can set up your own classes, you can do it in your own time. You know, I haven't got to run to the other side of Australia to run courses. I can if I want to, but I don't have to. Um, and so that's what made the initial inquiry. And then the more I found out about it, the more I liked it. And then of course I met you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Everything changed. Everything changed.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

Everything changed.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

Better and better.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

Better and better. So I I love the partnership. Um everybody's friendly, everybody's on the same page, everyone's got the same sort of focus. And yeah, I I think you're a great RTO.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

We do too.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:42

What has your partnership meant both professionally and personally?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

Well, I love I love the fact that I can um run my courses when I need to, to who I need to. Um, the turnaround for certificates is pretty much straight up. Um I can I can have one person in my class, I can have a hundred in my class. It doesn't really matter. Um you guys are uh you guys do all the money exchanging, etc., which I hate doing, and that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

Or your PA, Louise.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Yeah, exactly. And the fact that uh you can do the theory online, I think sometimes when people are presenting first aid courses, they can get lost in the theory a bit. They can either give too much theory or not enough theory, depending on your background. And of course, we all know not enough theory doesn't give your students the understanding. Too much theory sort of makes you look like you you know it all and you know the students don't, and I don't like that either. So being able to do do the theory online, the students actually focus a lot more because they have to pass, they have to pass in order to be able to come to the class. So having that set up is also fantastic, which means that they can do the theory wherever and whenever they need to. And then of course they hop off onto a practical class that suits them. Yeah. So professionally, I think it it really works for me the way that it's been set up.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

And also D is the face behind the videos, right? D is one of the faces in the theory. There you go. Of course, that's another reason why, Louise, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

But it's a positive. It's definitely a positive. And then personally, I just think um, you know, you have your you've you've got your um your professional development opportunities, which are easy to access.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

Webinars, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Yeah, because in the past PD's been, I think it's been a bit of a problem for a lot of people. Yeah if you're not in the big cities, you couldn't get up and go to those opportunities. Whereas now, you know, there's a lot online and you offer quite a lot. So personally, I really like that because I can come in and out when I need to. Yeah. Um, and of course, you know, you're a great bunch to work with. So personally, um I've I've found everyone really helpful. And you know, every time I send off a an email or I have to ring up, it's always answered. I get to the bottom of it. And I love that, you know, I I really love that. So personally, for me, it makes it so much easier. You treat it like a person, not a number. Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. I'm not I'm not speaking to a recording or I don't have to press another button.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

AI. I like AI, exactly. So the team are doing a good job. I love to hear that. That's good. Yes, yes, I would agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

And um what would you say would be the difference between your partnership with ABC and others?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

I think that personal touch, I really think that that personal touch, when when RTOs get too big, they lose that personal touch. And I know they do because I've been there. Um and you're just another cog in the wheel that makes money for that RTO. You're not I I don't believe that you're genuinely appreciated for the skills that you bring. Yeah, exactly. Whereas with the smaller RTOs, you definitely feel appreciated. You know that there are people that you can speak to um and get in touch with.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

Um so Lou, on to our final question. Um Are there any final words of wisdom today for our listeners or our partners from you? I think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

Any attempt at CPR is better than none. And I have a t-shirt where I have blow here with an arrow upwards, push there with an arrow downwards. And I wear it around, and people do give me, you know, some funny stares sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

We should get those t-shirts.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

However, it's got it's got two arrows blow here, push here, and it's got a heart right there. And I love wearing it around because it is sending a message: blow here, push here. Any attempt at CPR is better than no attempt. So that's my main words of wisdom. We've talked about confidence, we've talked about you know what you do in the classroom, etc. But any attempt is better than none. And I think I I got that from the Australian Resuscitation Council. That's their bottom line, and they're made up of you know very high-ranking Resus doctors in Australia. So I think if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for me. And uh I I live by that motto: any attempt is better than none. So I will always give something a go. Always give something a go when it comes to first aid. And I would hope that other people would be willing to give it a go as well. And if you keep in mind that the person you're most likely to do it on is someone that you know, exactly, and usually someone that you love very much, so someone in your own family. So any attempt is better than none really relates when you start to think about your own family. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:58

And it's something that's uh easy to remember. Absolutely, you know, and and and it can um hit hit very deep. Uh D, uh question for you. Um so you're a trainer with with um ABC as well. Um and if you were a listener today, uh listening to Louise, what would be one of the key takeaways from I guess everything, lots of amazing things that you've said, of course, Louise, but what would be a key takeaway for you as a trainer from today's um today's session with Louise?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:38

I guess keep it simple, focus on the end result. Like we want them to be confident to save somebody's life out in the community, somebody that we know and love, right? So keep it simple and don't overcomplicate it for our students who are students, not paramedics. Very good point, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:00

Absolutely, absolutely correct. Louise, thank you so much uh for joining us today. It's always a pleasure. I feel like it's been too long since um I've seen you last. Um I really appreciate your time. It's um we've had a we've had a really wonderful um uh conversation with you today. And um thank you for everything that you do in the community. Um, thank you for spreading the love. Um, and um thank you for saving lives. It's it's so important um what you do, and I hope that um every day you remember that that you appreciate it for everything. Um, you're an incredible human being human being. And um yeah, I just I can't wait for for people to hear your story uh and um to know the difference that you make, but also the difference that they can make. Yeah. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:55

Oh, thank you for having me, and it's just a pleasure to be part of the ABC team. It really is. It really is. I love it, and I'll continue on my journey. You know, I don't know if I'm up to 10,000 people trained yet, but I must be pretty close. I think. Well, we'll celebrate when that happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of Beyond the Bandage. We really hope you enjoyed the session. Please like, share, and subscribe so you can be part of future episodes and get notifications whenever they are aired. We really would appreciate your support. Thank you so much.