Meet Me in Music

Brian Owens — Legacy, Influence & Finding Your Voice in Music

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On the very first episode of Meet Me in Music, host Neil Salsich sits down with acclaimed St. Louis artist Brian Owens for a powerful conversation about performance, purpose, and the legacy of music in the city.

Brian shares how he approaches the stage—not as something to control, but as a shared experience with the audience. From overcoming nerves to learning how to truly connect in the moment, he breaks down the mindset that has shaped his career and made him one of the most respected performers in the region.

The conversation expands into the deeper story of St. Louis music—what defines its sound, why so many influential artists come from the city, and how its cultural “gumbo” of gospel, blues, jazz, and classical traditions continues to shape music today.

They also reflect on unforgettable career moments, from recording with legendary musicians to building creative communities, and discuss what it means to be a “bridge” for the next generation of artists.

More than just a conversation about music, this episode explores identity, collaboration, and the responsibility artists have to carry culture forward.

They discuss:

 - Managing nerves and building confidence on stage
 - The difference between “working” a crowd vs. working with them
 - What defines the St. Louis sound
 - The city’s influence on global music culture
 - Mentorship, collaboration, and creative community
 - Why being a “bridge” matters for the next generation

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Welcome & Introducing Brian Owens

SPEAKER_00

All right, welcome to the very first episode of Meet Me in Music. I'm your host, Neil Salci. This is a podcast all about music in St. Louis, past and present. We are so excited today to have our very first guest, and I would call no one else but this man right here, Brian Owens. Thank you. Meet Me in Music. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

I like this.

SPEAKER_00

Good. That was a genuine reaction. That was good. Uh, this is the first episode, Brian. Uh, I was laughing because I was a little bit nervous about this, but the truth. That's the truth.

Stage Nerves & Performance Mindset

SPEAKER_00

That's exactly then I thought about you, and then I thought about watching you on stage, and all the times that I have been on stage with you, and I have learned so much by watching you, and you don't ever seem nervous. Ever.

SPEAKER_03

That's interesting. Ever. That's interesting. That is, I mean, tell me about that. I don't okay. I think I have a different theory on the nerves thing that I had to like kind of adopt for myself. So the way that I figured it was most of the things that were making me nervous about being on stage had to do with things that I could not control. I can't control how an audience is gonna respond to me. Um, some nights, depending upon, like, you know, if you're on the road, your your voice just may not do what you wanted to do. So I would always pray before I went out on stage. And what I would pray for is favor with the audience. So not to sound good, not to just favor with the audience. Let me have a connection with the audience in spite of what may not be flawless. And in a lot of ways, that started to take away my nerves because it wasn't

Audience Connection & Live Experience

SPEAKER_03

about me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So, so the it the moment I was able to reposition who the experience was about, it kind of took away some of those nerves. So when I feel myself feeling that, I know why I'm feeling it.

SPEAKER_00

So it's interesting that you said you you can't control how the what the audience thinks about you. But in a way, I feel like more than anyone that I've been on stage with, you can. I learned that a little bit from you, and you just talked about it because what I've what I've learned from you, among many things, is also the art of entertaining and like working a crowd. So that's interesting to me because some something that I'm working on with myself is how can I uh yeah, work like the like the crowd is like an instrument almost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How can you play them, you know, or work with them or like invite them in and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03

It's what you just said. You just said it, you just phrase it differently. The first time you said working a crowd, yeah, then you just said to work with. Yeah. I feel like when I go out there, now more than ever, it's it's less about trying to work the crowd to get a response and it's working with the crowd to acknowledge what's happening, right? So it's kind of so, I mean, and people can say it's just like that's like just a philosophical way to think about it. But I'm like, it really helps me when I'm on a stage to understand that we're both in a shared experience that has never happened before and will never happen again. I know the songs, but I don't know how you're gonna respond. You know the songs, but you don't know how you're gonna respond. Like, I don't like, like I could do the same show three times for the same group of people. And depending on what happened to them that day, another song might hit different. So being sensitive to those things when I'm in a moment, like that's what I'll be reading in a moment. And that's why you'll be in the show, and the set list will say one thing, and you like, we need to go this other direction because this is where I sense people feeling. The other thing, too, is like I don't determine how a show is going to end by how it begins. So the idea of walking out to an audience that you don't know, unless you were just like super duper duper duper duper famous and like everybody know you, they know all your stuff, genuinely, you know, or generally you're walking in situations where some people may know you, but a lot of people don't. So developing a relationship over the course of 90 minutes, if you look at it that way, it's like I don't care how it begins. It may be shaky and the audience, you know, they may not clap, they may not do this. I don't hold that against them in the course of a show and begin to hold back because the audience ain't giving you nothing. No, it's like okay, this is a warm-up. We're in a relationship, building up. Okay, first couple songs, you get to kind of know who I am, next couple songs get to know who you are. But by the time we get to the end of the night, yeah, it's like, are we both committed to this experience? And that's my favorite part is getting to that last part where it's like, oh, now we know what's happened tonight. Because the response like when people are like my the greatest thing I love to hear after the show is is when people say you can sing. You I mean you you bad,

Impact Over Talent

SPEAKER_03

you can sing, but but I came here tonight feeling this way. Yeah. And you and I'm and you helped me, like this experience helped me see God more. This experience helped me to let this go, or like it really touched me in this way, which is much less about my talent. Like the talent is just a vehicle for something that's more important.

SPEAKER_00

You're talking about your vocal talent. Yeah, vocal talent. Performative talent.

SPEAKER_03

Vocal talent. I mean, the performative talent, I definitely earned the heart. I earned it. Like I like being in the military band, playing a bunch of shows, working in theme parks. Like that part of that part of the performative experience I earned. You know, my voice and training, that part I kind of I worked at that. I earned that. How an audience responds, I mean, I ain't earned that. Like, like, yeah, that's something that's way more transcendent. And and and the ability to kind of empty myself out in a moment and not care about how I sound, that's when I feel like I make the best art. Because I'm not trying to manipulate, I'm not trying to sing this to get you to feel a certain way. I'm literally emptying out so you can hear the song and the song will dictate that.

SPEAKER_00

So you're present.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so that's a huge thing. So how do you, and you see you're very present on stage. There's so much of what you just said that that I got all these ideas and I all these threads

Staying Present & Preparation

SPEAKER_00

I want to pull. So yeah, how do you how do you stay present? And how do you stay? I mean, do you ever still feel nervous in that moment, in that one second? And then there's like a crossroads, you know? You are you making choices on stage? Or at this point, is it all just so baked in that you don't even have to think about it?

SPEAKER_03

The only time I ever really feel nervous is when I feel like I'm not prepared. If I'm prepared, ain't nothing to be nervous. I mean, for me, it's like if I'm prepared, ain't nothing to be nervous about. Yeah. Because I've done all I can do. It's only when I have not done all that I can do. Yes. Oh, yeah, I didn't really spend, I should have spent more time on them lyrics. Or, or, or, or I should have, you know, we may have to cut that song, or, or even with the band. Like, is the band well rehearsed? Yeah. It's those are all things that are within control before you get there. So I'm trying to make sure now, in my in my seasoned age, that like the things that I know I have control over and that I'm responsible for, it's my job to make sure that those things are taken care of. Or I'm comfortable enough in the experience of what the experience is that it's like, oh, the band don't need to rehearse. And we like, like, we just gonna get up, y'all know the songs, I know the song, and that experience calls for that. Yeah. Or it's okay for it to be that.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00

That's in that's that's interesting because that's different than than being unprepared. Because I've been on stages with you where it's just what you

Structure vs Spontaneity

SPEAKER_00

described. It's that the musicians are killing. You know, I'm thinking of all the shows that I've been a part of with you. That's been a huge privilege. And I met some amazing musicians. So the musicians are killing, and we all kind of know the songs. And then so, but it's funny to me, I'm more of a I I I celebrate the the the differences between us, and they they're very present to me on stage because I'm just you're more of like yeah, I'm a I'm more type A, whatever. And I see you as being so much more um, just more willing to dance with the moment and and like you like that. You like the I do. Yeah, I that's a cool thing. That's like that really shows up in your personality. And so there are moments where you're like, we're not doing this song, or or we're doing something differently. But you know what? That's been good for me to be that's you've been, I've just been along with along for the ride, and I have to like sink or swim. And that's taught me a lot. Those those shows I've done with you.

SPEAKER_03

I'm learning though how to be aware of that though. And not every situation.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

If I'm doing something with a symphony, with the symphony or something, it's like I can't just completely go off script because they have a chart.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Now and learning how if I'm going to do that, I have to bake it into the pie. Hey, once we get to this part, yeah, just lay out.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I learned it a lot, like doing stuff with like the 442 shout out to them, you know. It's like they got a chart. And I'll be like, well, yeah, when we get to here, just play the same thing over and over again. Right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, but like still being able to communicate that because you know situation, as opposed to getting in the moment. Yeah, especially getting in the moment and no, and you ain't talked about it. It's like, oh, I'm feeling it now. It's like, well, you know what I'm saying? I think I think you can have I think you can have both. And but that's why I too I need people around me who are like that, who are a little type A.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Who are a and I need people like you around me. Yeah. That's it's good. It's been good for me. And we've done a lot of stuff. You know what I so I want to share with our with our listeners and our viewers today all these amazing stories that we've had, right? But the funny thing is the one thing that I that meant the most to me, that that satisfied me the most musically was was when we did the Kings of Soul show at the

Kings of Soul & Musical Chemistry

SPEAKER_00

Jess Hall of Fame. Oh, yeah. And you've done a lot of these shows, yeah, right. And I've even performed there through through your connections many times. But this, I don't know what, I don't know what it was, but man, I go back and watch these these clips of us singing, and we are like shadows on each other. It's amazing, you know? It's beautiful. Well, that's why I asked you to do it. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, at the time, I thought Neil, the first time, the first time I heard you sing, the first time I heard you sing at during the pandemic when we were doing I was doing this homegrown song. Yeah, homegrown soul out of Earth Dance Forum. Shout out Molly. Yes, who actually connected us too that's how we met.

SPEAKER_00

That's how we met. Okay, Molly Rockman, thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and had when the first time I heard you sing, I was like, that is that dude's soulful. That's the first that dude is I didn't even say like that white boy soulful. I was like, that dude is soulful. So as we, you know, over the years started to do more stuff, when I got to, you know, booking World Chess Hall of Fame, because first I booked the Pines, and then I was like, man, I want to book a show where me and you can take some of our favorite soul songs and sing them.

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SPEAKER_00

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Career Highlights & Studio Stories

SPEAKER_00

it by the way. I'm down. Okay, I'm down. I just I'm down. I just the funny thing is, we have together, we have recorded with Michael McDonald. That was that was fire. We have sang Oh, wait, wait, wait. You can't I'm just I'm trying to say that we've done XYZ. You gotta stop there, though. And the thing that means the most to me is that Kings is hole concert. That's that was the point of that. I got it. Yes, we have recorded with Michael McDonald.

SPEAKER_03

We gotta talk about that.

SPEAKER_00

We want to talk about it. We have recorded in the finest studios in Nashville, Tennessee, with a project that hopefully will be released, by the way. It's in your vault. And Gerard and I shout out Gerard, my bandmate. So so the Christopher's every every every night we pray for this music to come out, okay? And we're still praying. That's faith.

SPEAKER_03

It'll it'll it's gonna, we're gonna do it. It's gonna come out.

SPEAKER_00

So we have um we have sang with the the high rhythm section. Okay, that's the craziest thing because I was with my mom a couple days ago, and we were in a restaurant and they had a great soundtrack on, all these great songs from the 60s and 70s, and Love and Happiness was on. And I it just I forget. That you were on a stage with the same guys that played. I was singing this song with the bass player and the keyboard player that were I mean, things like that, and that was all through you. So this is my moment to once again thank you for being here for real as the first guest, but also I genuinely want to say just thank you for all those experiences that you have opened. There's a lot of doors you have opened for me. Well, it's my means a lot.

SPEAKER_03

It's my privilege, man. I feel like I was saying to somebody the other day, it's like I feel like God's been using me in this stage of my life as a bridge. It's just like, you know, for other people's experiences. Right? Like it's it's not about I'll get to do the stuff that I do, yeah, but how do I use what I've learned, what I know, um, the access that I have to be a bridge for younger creatives in my life that I meet to be able to get to where they want to go and do the things that they want to do and maybe see things um slightly differently in terms of the freedom that they can have from maybe what the industry tells them they have to do or what the city tells them they have to be. It's like being a bridge to actually know, you have way more freedom than you think. You're in a better place than you think, you have more resources and access to things than you think. It's just a matter of are you willing to see. I mean, think about it, you're doing a podcast, bro. I was on your podcast once.

SPEAKER_00

That never came out. Yeah, never came out. No, I was laughing about it. Right, right, right. Right? You have a very extensive vault. That's just what I want the listeners to know. Like, I hope one day, one of you, why don't you be a bridge to your own archives? Because you have so much cool stuff. We so that I want to.

SPEAKER_03

So we've been talking about that. I mean, talking about like the Solar Ferguson record, Solo Cash record, Love Came Down. Um, I still haven't really put out the duets with dad album that I did with my dad that has like Michael McDonald's. Like that you that you guys are on. That's crazy. We are gonna talk about that story.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay, so like actually, let's go back. That was also one of the most memorable days of my life for for all of us for different reasons. That was okay. So we're about to have a huge ice storm here in St. Louis coming up. That was two years ago, and that was the ice storm of of the generation. And I almost missed my car went off the ditch uh off the road into a ditch, and I had to get a ride. And I bear, I don't even know if I told you that. I barely knew like made the session barely because I got there late and and I walked down the stairs to the studio and everyone's already kind of in the huddle with Mike. And I just was like, you know, had to just be cool. Like, what's up? Sorry, I'm like, I didn't, I wasn't even that late, but somehow everyone was early or whatever. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Well, we'd already started because we we'd done because we we'd already done one song. Okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, what an amazing, what an amazing time. So, yes, tell, tell, let's just, let's just rehash that. Let's like remember that incredible experience.

SPEAKER_03

So, Michael McDonald's from Ferguson, for people who don't know. And so through his best friend Dan Duncan, who's become a good friend of mine, I got to meet him right around 2015. And since then, like we've gotten to have a good relationship, do music together.

SPEAKER_00

Because he was in your famous video. Um isn't was she not in the in the Change is gonna come video?

SPEAKER_03

Well, we did so he and I did a version of Change is gonna come with David Sanborn, okay, late David Sanborn for a his his thing called Sanborn Sessions. Okay that Mike Mike actually recommended me to David, and that's how I ended up meeting David and get becoming friends with him.

SPEAKER_00

So like David Holman. David Sanborn, just for those, see a lot of people don't know these things.

SPEAKER_03

It's from Kirkwood.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. No, that's that's part of why I'm doing this podcast, is because I'm so passionate about, and there's a lot of names you've dropped when I've been sitting with you at the World Chess Hall of Fame, and you say, So such and such is from St. Louis, such and such is the band leader for the huge this huge tour right now. Oh, yeah. You know, all these. So you are a great resource for all of these this Rolodex of St. Louis musicians. And so so many people just don't know about that. That is one of the reasons that I'm doing this podcast. So, little tangent there, David Sanborn is maybe the most, one of the most famous pop saxophone. Oh, without a doubt, without just recorded horn players ever. And he's from Kirkwood. He's from Kirkwood. And he just passed away last year. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. So when we did the session, the point of the my dad and I were doing a project called Duets with Dad. We have this viral video of us doing a change gone. Thomas Owens. Thomas Owens. He's in my top five singer. And he um we we started to do the do this project as a follow-up to that viral video. So as we were going through the songs, we recorded a lot of it in Memphis with Boo Mitchell at Royal Studios with the high rhythm section, Isaiah Sharkey.

SPEAKER_00

Oma OMG. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and then had David Sanborn playing sacks on a version of uh Bridge over Triple Water that we did.

SPEAKER_00

Are these are these recorded? Yeah, they're there, yeah. No, I don't know. No, I'm not asking the album's out. I want to go listen to it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, the album's out. It's album's out. Um, but the but in particular, the session that we did, Mike and his son Dylan and I, and my dad, like I've always wanted to do something where I could get, because it was a duets with dad project, right? So I was like, man, could we do something where like the four of us do something together? And so Mike was like, yo, I'm totally, I'm totally down with that. So he and Dylan, this is how cool Mike, this is how cool Mike is. This is why I love this dude. He and Dylan drove up from Nashville. They drove up from Nashville. Just together.

SPEAKER_00

Just follow the town. Together.

SPEAKER_03

He was like, it's time to hang out. And we did two songs that day. We did Forever Young, which was, you know, me and Dylan and Mike and my dad, which go lit, I love Bob Dylan's foreign. Bob Dylan's Forever Young. Oh my god. And it was amazing. The musicians in the studio that day, you know, killing. And then we did um Bob Dylan's song, I Shall Be Released. But I was like, how cool would it be for my dad and Mike to do a duet together? And I was like, I should get the Pines to play and sing on it. And that's how that came, and that's how that kind of all came about. So like being in- Still can't believe it happened. I mean, being in the studio, but it's just like the

Saint Louis Music Legacy

SPEAKER_03

to me, it's just indicative of like how amazing St. Louis musicians and culture and legacy are. Cause one of the coolest moments for me that day, besides us all singing the background parts and like seeing Mike and my dad.

SPEAKER_00

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03

Like, that was crazy. When we were doing organ, um Chris Woody goes by Butch. Rob Woody is my drummer. This is his brother. He's ridiculous. He was playing the organ part, recording his organ part, and we were all sitting, we just all sitting around at Blue Lotus. Shout out Paul Neehouse. We all sitting around and we just watching and him playing. And Mike was in the middle of the room. I got a video of this. I do too. We all have this out. And Mike, Mike's just in the middle of the room watching Butch play organ. Like, wow. Yeah. That's what I love about what it means to be from here. Is that really, you know, when it's at its best, it's legacy passed on, it's legacy lived out. It's people who are really about the music and not about fame. It's about an excellence that literally invades other people's music culture and makes it better. Like that's what that's what we kind of are built to do. The upside of that can be really high. The downside of that is you can make something be really good and nobody really knows that you're behind it. Like nobody knows that, you know, it's Keon Harrell behind that. Nobody may Not may not know it's Shedrick Mitchell behind that. No, maybe I know that. Oh, Gregory Porter's rhythm section. Well, Emmanuel and Jamal, you know, drums and bass respectfully. They from here, live here.

SPEAKER_00

This is all things that I heard. And so you're telling our listeners right now, these are things I heard you say just in conversation year, you know, two years ago, or at the Kings of Soul Cup. I started to go, wait, who are these guys? Right. Who are these guys? So I've gone down the rabbit hole and I'm learning. And everything you just said is basically the spirit of this podcast. So you just you just laid it out. It's it's the fact that what we do here has influenced and continues to influence the

The Saint Louis Sound & “Gumbo” Analogy

SPEAKER_00

world. Yes. Truly. The sounds and the the and that's something I want to talk about. So what is that? What is that sound? Like what is sometimes sometimes I feel like I know it because I'm living it, by the way. I like we're all part of it. Right. Right. So even my life and my artistic life, I somehow feel or know that I'm I'm somehow be you know participating in this or contributing to it. But I can't always, I can't always put into words like what is the St. Louis Sound? You know, and so I think that's an interesting conversation. I mean, I have an opinion. Yeah, no, I want to just see where we get with this.

SPEAKER_03

So so this is just my, this is this is just this is just Brian Owens, right? So there's two things that I'll say, and then we can talk about it. One, I liking it. I I started using gumbo as an analogy, and I've shared this with you, right? This idea that like you ask people what's the most important part of gumbo. I know the answer. Right? Yeah. Anyone that's make makes gumbo will tell you that it's not the shrimp, it's not the sausage, it's not the rice, it's the roux. It's the the roux, the gravy that you make that thickens and flavors and does all that stuff. That's the most important part.

SPEAKER_00

And it's kind of gone. It's not gone, but it's not visible. Because it's in everything when it's all said and done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So nobody eats gumbo and goes, man, that rue is amazing. They say the gumbo is good. That's the way I see how we as St. Louisens, by and large, you know, we we get into the people's gumbo and we make it taste good. And then people go, man, Maxwell is killing. Schedric is on keys. That's you know what I'm saying? Like, this person's killing, you know. Uh, Mark Kohlenberg playing drums with Q-tip and playing drums with Common. It's like Montez Coleman, the late Montez Coleman playing with Roy Hargrove.

SPEAKER_00

Like, we So it's the expats that's okay. Yes, the the diaspora. Yes. And the Central. It's anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And here's why. The St. Louis sound to me is made up of these key ingredients traditional gospel, blues, and jazz. With an understanding and an influence from European classical tradition. And the reason why that makes sense is because we are the second oldest uh symphony on the planet. We have a very robust and have had a very robust music education system, whether formally or informally. We've had uh a strong church tradition, especially like African-American church tradition musically. And the blues and the jazz things, come on, man. I mean, Miles Davis from here, um, Albert King is from here. And then all of those things, you know, spread out to influence and be influencers of just about every major American music form you can think of. What is rock and roll without Chuck Berry? What is rhythm and blues without Ike and Tina? What is quote unquote yacht rock?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Without Michael McDonald. That's right. What is what is David Bowie's Young Americans without David Sanborn on saxophone? And here's the one person that I feel like brings it all together. Donnie Hathaway.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I knew it was.

SPEAKER_03

If you really want to know the Saint what St. Louis sounds like, if you want to hear the ribbon, the rhythm of the river, go listen to Donnie Hathaway. How he plays, how he sings, how he writes and orchestrates. He was a house producer for Curtis Mayfield. He had amazing duets with Roberta Flack. That's the St. Louis sound.

SPEAKER_00

And so, you know. His yeah, not just his voice, but his ability to write. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03

He orchestrated that stuff. Oh, yeah. And so when you look at it from that standpoint, and then you flash forward to a generation of Nelly, Shmino, Metro Booming. And then you, when you, you know what I'm saying? When you when you see it crossing, I mean Sciza. Like you see all of these musical and artistic individuals, and that's just talking about, you know, um, musicians and Robert McFarn Sr. Yeah. Bobby McFerrin's dad from St. Louis, the first African-American singer at the Metropolitan Opera. Like, we have a lot of people in our lineage that were more than just contributors.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they were what's the, you know, they were architects. Yeah, exactly. Architects and archetypes. Wow. Okay. That is so that's pumping me up so much. Okay, so here's what I here's my uh next question, or let's just jump from there to this. So, so Donnie Hathaway says uh a lot of those people you named. Okay, so Donnie left when he was 18, roughly went to DC. So, but his musical soul was arguably constructed. Oh, for sure, right? So, so here's what do you think about um this is something I think about all the time. The idea of terroir with music, which would be what the winemakers say with um the grapes that are grown in certain places that that reflect the land. And this is something I believe, and I won't at least I I like to believe, and I feel it's like, so what is it about this uh this place, the air, the temperature, the hot summers, the all the seasons, the the way it looks and feels and smells this this city of St. Louis or the Metro, whatever we're calling it. How does that how does how does that shape these people's voices and what what what when I'm walking these same streets in 2026, right, my heroes like Donnie Hathaway and Chuck Berry and so many more and Michael McDonald I I just want to be I want to believe that there's something that we we have in common, which is this place, and so like even if they're long gone, when I'm when I'm looking at the same buildings in the river, right, and the and I'm smelling the same trees in the summertime and I'm feeling that humidity like how does yeah, do you see what I'm saying? How does all that affect what we're doing? And is is that something that can be in common with me and those people?

The “Beautiful Contradiction” of STL

SPEAKER_03

Yes, and I think it's because we all live within the tension of this beautiful contradiction that's still trying to find resolution, and that is what makes us sing and play the way that we do, right? Like we we we are in the middle of what of the of the of the nation's great confluence, right? Like we were always the state that was still trying to figure it out, even with slavery, Dred Scott.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03

When you look at things that have happened in Missouri and Illinois, it's like we're all it's like they the beautiful contradiction seeking resolution. And in order for you to have a beautiful contradiction, it what it means is that like in terms of people, you have those who are still maybe struggling with old ways that are not productive for humanity, and people who are trying to move into accepting and adopting and seeing more holistic and better ways. Well, we live in that constant tension. Yeah, and we've always listened in that constant tension. And I see that as beautiful because I'm from Ferguson in terms of I'm from Illinois, but I've lived in Ferguson for 20 years. Of all the places for you know what they called um social unrest to happen. When you look at where we are now, I'm going, of all the places for it to happen, man, and and to come to some type of resolution, I don't know if that would have happened if it was something. And and I and I think that comes out in our music. It comes out in how we do what we do. The other practical aspect of it is too is we never developed an industry.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So the core of what we do here for everybody, whether it was Michael McDonald or David Sanborn or Brian Owens, as a musician and a singer was you're singing in top 40 bands and you singing in church. Like like that's the pedigree and that's the appetite of your local and regional audience.

SPEAKER_00

And you're saying we we wish you wish it was, is that limiting? Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_03

I'm saying it's only limiting if you allow it to limit you. Okay. For me, it was empowering. Because that's how I'm in the roo. That's how all of these people, that's how all these people in the roo, think about it. Think about it. Mike leaves here, goes to LA. Before he's with the doobies, before he's doing other stuff, he ended up doing session stuff. He ends up playing with Steely Dan. Singing background and playing with Steely Dan. Yeah. Yeah. We'll go back to you. Right? David Sanborn, he's playing with the Paul Butterfield blend. He played at Woodstock. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, but now I know. And the reason why we were able to Peter Martin was Diane Reed's music director for almost 30 years. Like the reason why we're able to do that is because there's a freedom in this city, too, that comes along with having access to all of the things. I can go listen to the symphony. Yeah. I can go listen to a blues band. I can go hear the Mighty Pines. I can hear hip hop. I can go to church and hear gospel.

SPEAKER_00

Like when that is your experience,

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SPEAKER_00

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The "Beautiful Contradiction" of STL Continued

SPEAKER_00

Right. I love that. That yeah, and they and those things are not in contradiction to one another. No, they're not. I just feel like they that I that version of what you just said, which is the most beautiful thing ever, and and that's the way my life has been lately, but that's not the way I don't think a lot of people's circles are that big. And mine certainly wasn't. Uh like the last I I just mean that I just I just think so many, so much of us as St. Louisens, and here we go, because we're gonna, we're gonna talk about when we're trying to talk about music on this podcast, it's just gonna reflect the whole, the whole situation that we live in, right? But but yeah, what do you I just see a lot of I don't I don't see people really feeling that way or are living that way all the time, like I can go do this, I can go do that. There's there's either the attitude of of I don't know, they only see one, they only see one sort of avenue musically or or artistically, and then they feel stuck, or um they just don't, I don't know where I'm going with this, but they just don't that's that that whole spectrum doesn't seem that available to people, and it doesn't seem like that's on their on their brains. So I don't know. One one thing that I'm passionate about is like is trying to trying to open that spectrum up for other people, you know? And I think that's what you that's why I get so excited being around you, because you feel you feel like engaged and able to engage with these different scenes, if you will. Like, and I just find that very rich. And I I guess this is just my moment to just wish that for musicians here. Well, because it feels like there's and then that's you don't have you don't have to wish it. No, I know that's what that's what the passion is in me that uh that is driving this. But okay, here's a question for you because I've noticed this and I didn't notice it before, but I notice it now. Like are there are there, you know, there's a there's there's there's black and white in St. Louis and there's it are there two are there there there's obviously are there two worlds that that that are kind of existing together and it and like are there two music scenes? Like it just feels like sometimes all the especially when you talk about the church, like that's like so that's so new to my consciousness. And uh I know that sounds like crazy because when you grew up in the church or with that music in your life, like duh, it's it's built up, you know, and so but there are so many people, at least 50% of like all the people taking in music in St. Louis or listening to music in St. Louis or making music that that don't you know have no idea what that's about. And I I don't know, I just kind of want to I'm just fascinated with we come from different worlds, and and what do you think about about do we have one scene in St. Louis or is it really like two different worlds? Does that make sense? I'm just I I'm just ex I'm kind of trying to grapple with that and make sense of that in my own life.

SPEAKER_03

I can't speak to that, I don't think with any like real where I would say absolutely positively. I think that obviously the positive I mean, I think there were there were times when you had a certain level of segregation, but like historically, I think when you look at the like musicians, like stories that I hear from musicians like Tim Albert, who's at the uh who runs um all the the the tech and the stuff and the production stuff at the Sheldon would always tell me about stories about Oliver Sane was his mentor. Wow. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, and I know Tim, and then I'm just like I didn't expect that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like I think that again, this is the beautiful contradiction. And the tension. I love that tension. The contradiction is how do you live in a city that is obviously, obviously, still struggles with overt and covert? Yeah. Uh racial tension, classism, um, what high school did you go to? Like, like they struggles with all these isms, right? Yeah. And at the same time can produce culture within it where, you know, Michael McDonald, when he was 17 years old, is backing up Chuck Berry at the Castaway Club in Ferguson, or Tim Albert is being mentored by Oliver Sain. Or Brian Owens when he's, you know, 35, 34, 35, meets and again gets mentored in a way by Michael McDonald, who allows him to go on the road with him. Right.

SPEAKER_00

And Brian Owens mentors.

SPEAKER_03

Right, right. So so it's like, I think, I think what we say is that look, revolution, renaissance, and revival, the three, those three things, very rarely do those things start with the masses. They never do, because it's not required. You don't need a bunch of people to make a lot of

Building Bridges Through Music

SPEAKER_03

noise. What you need is committed people. So if we have people who are committed to podcasts, um, you know, I people who I don't, I don't, people who have to leave the city to go do what they do. I mean, I'm like, do what you need to do. As long as you're going to something and not running from something, I'm like, go for it. There's also a contingency of us who are still in the city, people who are coming back. Like Keon has held held residencies here. Keon Harold, like who held residencies here, like who are who are like looking at this as an opportunity to actually be bridges, bridges that are built not only from the past to the present, but building bread build bridges from the present to the future so that people who are growing up in this city can be, can have an institutionalized knowledge about what came before them, but have a freedom to take it in a direction that may make more sense for where they're going in the future and where music may be going. So I got like Paco and Melina and Sanka and all these who are involved in all these different things. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's like my son now is doing music, right? They fundamentally do something that's different than me. I don't need them to do what I do. I need to take what I've learned in my platform and now support, be a bridge for them to get over to whatever their other side is holistically, not just as artists, but as people and individuals who have a sense of responsibility and a transcendent purpose that's on their life to do something more than just make money. Like that's to me, that's the opportunity that exists.

SPEAKER_00

So that is your is that your identity now, or your, you know, like that that's where you're at right now, is the bridge. You've used that term a couple of times.

SPEAKER_03

To the city, I'm a bridge. To the world, I want to be a megaphone. Okay. Right. So it's kind of like, it's kind of like, no, am I done being an artist? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00

No, and then that's not even what I was. I'm just, I'm because we haven't talked in a while, which is which I love this, by the way. And that's another thing I was laughing about as I'm as I'm preparing for this, and I'm I'm kind of thinking about what we're gonna talk about. And I love this about musicians, is that we don't have to, we're not in touch a lot. You know what I mean? No. But but when we sit down, yeah, when we're together, and this is the same way I am with a lot of different musicians, and I know you know this feeling. And isn't that kind of cool and and special? I don't know, it it's almost like is that just for musicians, or is or that's probably for like if you know you're pro athletes, it's probably the same way. Like, you don't we speak each other's language, it's fraternal. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fraternal. And there's a certain vulnerability to like right now what we're doing, uh, it's but it's but inherent to being on stage that I think just sort of connects us with that with that sort of bond where we don't I have I don't remember the last time I saw I saw you, or the we don't text or talk regularly, but yeah, when we're when we're in the same room creating something or performing something together, we're talking. Because a lot of these, a lot of this great, the seeds of this conversation have just been the green room conversations that we're gonna do. Yeah, right, right, right, you know, before the show. Just when when there's no cameras on, there's no, we're just talking about life.

SPEAKER_03

It's a shared, but we have a shared language. Yeah. Like we understand, it's like going to another country, and you may look different than other people, but if you can speak the language, yeah, you immediately have a connection. And I think that's what happens in the creative and artistic and the music world. I love that. I think that's one of the coolest things about it. Yeah, yeah. We speak, we speak the same language. And I think that, and I think that the ability of St. Louis artists, creatives, and musicians to speak that language is at a hot level. And I think it's right, because now you can leave here and you go someplace else, and now you can pick up other people's languages. That's the root, that's the root. That's the root. Absolutely. You can put rue in anybody's gumbo. You like, like, you can have different gumbo recipes. Yeah. And have the same and have the same root. And have the same root. And I and I think that that's what I want to do is like help build the bridge. So it's like go be rue. All right.

SPEAKER_00

I'm getting my shirt made. Go be rude. Go be rue. People are gonna say, what is that? I say you have to podcast. St. Louis Rue. Wow. I mean, so when I travel and I was uh actually had the blessing to be traveling. Through Europe a couple months ago. But even if I travel around the states, you know what the funny thing is? And I know I know you know this experience too. They you tell them we're from St. Louis. The first thing they talk about is the music. Everyone has a reference for and a lot of times it's the same. It's I hate to use the word cliche, but it might be the same archetypal thing like Chuck Berry or Miles Davis, which by the way, those are giants for a reason, you know. And I mean Chuck Berry, especially sometimes I don't think I think we just take things for granted uh as St. Louis's, but actually as music fans. He created, he created. I know it's I know. And the more I study, you got it when you go back and you study and you learn, you start, you start to have an understanding and appreciation. And sometimes the the the profundity of what of the music that he made, I can't I can put not put into words. It's still it's still the most exciting electric stuff when I hear it. And I mean that's its whole that's its whole let's do a let's do an eight-part podcast series on just that because it's I mean we could we should look have all your other guests.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I want you to have all your other guests. Yeah, the first one. You'll always be the first one. But if you ever want to do a breakdown, it's like, okay, this whole episode is about Chuck Berry. This whole episode's about Michael McDonald. This whole top is about Scott Joplin.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my yes, I'm saying yes.

SPEAKER_03

That's another cat. Like Roy Royce, you know Royce, Royce Martin? Yes. Okay, like that's what we are in St. Louis. This dude taught watched watched ragtime on YouTube, taught himself to play, and now graduated from Berkeley, and he's doing he's doing scoring for like um Bel Air and like all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00

It's like, and he's and me and him are in the same club the other night at Evangelines watching the same jazz band. And there's about three other people there. You know what I mean? But I saw him and I knew who he was, and and uh, you know, by the way, he's gonna be on this podcast. He doesn't know it yet, but he's gonna be on it, and uh, so many of the people that you mentioned that I learned about from you, which is so cool. You are a wealth of information and it's just it's exciting to talk with you. We It's because I'm getting old, man. Well, I've been here forever, man. That's what it is. I don't see you as I don't see okay, then that means I'm getting old because I don't see you as that old. But um man, this has been amazing. Uh I feel like we could keep going and going, and uh first episode,

What’s Next + Live Performance & Closing

SPEAKER_00

I gotta keep it, we gotta keep it tight, you know? Keep it loose, keep it tight. So uh I think there'll have to be a part two. I'm totally gonna Brian Owens returns at some point, by the way, because I we just got going here. Honestly, we just got going. I can feel it. Um but what the last thing let's leave our listeners with this. I just and I'm genuinely curious, what is what is cooking in the kitchen with Brian Owens right now? What is what do you have going on? A lot of room. Okay, well, and I tell give me a lot of preview.

SPEAKER_03

So give me a taste. So what people can look forward to this year is we have a series called Sunday Soul. We launched it in Christmas with some videos, and they look unbelievable. Thank you, and uh and sound unbelievable. Yeah, shout out to Open Studio and Who does the word job? Yeah, oh, because Safa Senkofa Studios. She if you need somebody to do your creative direction, I'm gonna send it Safa Kaplinger.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna send them uh Senkofa.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, she yeah, she she kills it. So so so I'm really focusing on that. And you know, a lot of the creative mentoring that we've been doing over the past seven to ten years is really starting to find its home. You were teaching a course in the business school at Meryville University, still have the residency.

SPEAKER_00

You are doing a million things.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, still have the residency with World Chess Hall of Fame. So, so this year is about really starting to consolidate everything so that people can see the ecosystem that that's been been built over the last 10 to 12 years. Yes. And the people in the ecosystem and what they're doing. Like we were talking about Natalia Parr, who who works with SEO Bucket list. Like she's one of our creative kids. Um, Sokka Duen, who's getting ready to start killing the game at K-pop.

SPEAKER_00

She already is, and I'm I'm going. Hey, I want to write a song. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Don't forget about me. Yeah, Melina Smith. Oh my gosh. Uh Joshua Paco Lee, who um he has a pilot coming out called Pray for Pac and doing stuff. Anthony Jones with Kid Electric and even Royce.

SPEAKER_00

Royce is one of my so like like Royce is doing something. I see what he's doing. He almost seems like he's actually creating uh something new, right? Which is actually not that common with the ragtime ragtime hip hop. It's like, yeah, I don't know if that might be it, that's really special. Yeah. And I'm excited.

SPEAKER_03

I just so so so we just have all of these people. When people say, you know, how does the future look and all this kind of stuff? I'm like, man, there's a group of creatives who are experiencing a freedom that is gonna allow them to become a bridge for somebody else. And if I'm not doing anything else, what I'm doing this year is making sure that whatever platform I'm building does two things it honors God and becomes a bridge for other people. And if it does that, I'm totally good. But I can tell you, you want you want to be looking for you want to be looking at Bruno and Soul on the IG and the YouTube and all this stuff, because it's a lot of good, powerful, transformational, cool stuff coming.

SPEAKER_00

I feel hopeful hearing all that as a St. Louis as a part of it, man. Well, it is a privilege to be a part of it, and and once again, you have you have shown me more than you even realize over the last couple years, and it's been exciting and super gratifying and super illuminating to be uh just a guest in your musical home for all these years. So thank you for being a guest in this podcast space. Uh this was amazing. Thank you, Brian. Uh hopefully we get on stage soon. Oh well, yeah, we we we'll work that out. Yeah, so actually, we're we're gonna do a song. You want to? Yeah. I forgot. I was having such a good time. Let's do it. Yeah, all right. We're gonna we're going to perform a song.

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SPEAKER_00

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Performance

SPEAKER_03

This is my jam, bro.

SPEAKER_01

I was born on Nantucket. I'm a scalar man's son. I grew up pulling shellfish, leafy Atlantic sun, but a taste for adventure, and the start of a dream brought me to Boston when I was just seventeen. So I married a lady, and I took her down south to find work on the railroad in the red smoky mouse, but I've missed the seashore and the change of the tide Each night. I see an ocean of stars in the sky. And I sing all these mountains from morning till new and dance by the light of the moon. Sing all these mountains till a song gets the sea. Carries with it all of my memories. We litter the landscape and we cut down the trees. Blue holes through the mountain. Oh, yeah, brought the earth to her knees These days. I feel sorrow. I feel sorry about the work that I've done. And I sure miss the water. I'm a scarlet man's son. And I sing all these mountains from morning to new ends by the light of the moon. Sing all these mountains till my song hits the sea, carries with it all of my memory. Carries with it all of my memory. Now I've got three children and a wife in her grave. Still the salts in my skin, and it's in my blood too, and it falls in these tears that I cry for you. Tears that I cry from my cone Atlantic blue And I sing all these mountains from morning to New Ends by the light of the moon. Sing all these mountains till my song gets the sea, carries with it all of my memory, carries with it all of my memories, carries with it all of my memories.

unknown

All right.

SPEAKER_01

I love this. All right.