Thomas Paden — Film Scores, Creative Curiosity & Building Beyond St. Louis

On this episode of Meet Me in Music, host Neil Salsich sits down with St. Louis pianist, composer, and multi-instrumentalist Thomas Paden for a thoughtful conversation about creativity, inspiration, and carving out a musical path that reaches far beyond city limits.

Thomas reflects on growing up in a deeply musical family rooted in church, learning through self-exploration, and developing a sound shaped by jazz, gospel, film scores, and modern fusion. He shares how influences ranging from Oscar Peterson to Broadway and movie soundtracks continue to shape the way he approaches music today.

The conversation explores everything from artist wellness and self-care to the relationship between music and logic, staying inspired, and maintaining childlike curiosity as an artist. Thomas also opens up about traveling to NAMM, earning artist endorsements, collaborating across the country, and composing music for the Amazon Prime film Meet Cute in Manhattan.

Neil and Thomas dive into the realities of building a creative life in St. Louis, discussing the city’s artistic ecosystem, the importance of community, and what it could look like if local creatives had stronger infrastructure and support.

More than anything, this episode is about possibility — remaining inspired, staying curious, and continuing to build even when the path isn’t clearly laid out.

They discuss:
 - Growing up in a multigenerational musical family
 - Church roots, jazz influences, and self-taught musicianship
 - Health, wellness, and caring for the artist’s body
 - Learning through curiosity and exploration
 - Film scores, Broadway, and creative inspiration
 - Traveling to NAMM and receiving artist endorsements
 - Scoring Meet Cute in Manhattan
 - The future of St. Louis music and creative infrastructure
 - Why artists are ambassadors for their cities
 - Staying optimistic and inspired as a creative

Chapter Markers:
 00:00 Welcome & Meeting Thomas Paden
 00:57 Artist Wellness, Self-Care & Breathwork
 05:02 Growing Up Around Music & Church
 08:24 Self-Taught Learning & Musical Influences
 10:26 Reimagining Songs & Musical Identity
 11:19 Sponsor Break: Swade Dispensary
 12:03 NAMM, Travel & Artist Endorsements
 17:23 Creativity, Inspiration & Film Scores
 21:13 Youth, Curiosity & Staying Inspired
 23:34 Music Theory, Logic & Creativity
 27:23 Sponsor Break: Brick City Yoga
 27:55 Film Scoring & Meet Cute in Manhattan
 30:17 The St. Louis Creative Scene
 32:10 Music Infrastructure & Supporting Artists
 38:09 Being Creative Ambassadors for St. Louis
 43:14 Closing Thoughts
 44:22 Sponsor Break: Kuva Coffee
 45:07 Live Performance

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Transcript

Welcome & Meeting Thomas Paden

SPEAKER_01 0:03

All right, St. Louis and Beyond, welcome back to Meet Me in Music. I am your host, Neil Salsk. I am so excited today to welcome into the studio, into Bucket List Studios, the amazing Thomas Payton. I know, man. What up, what up? Thank you. Thanks for being here. Happy to be here. Oh my gosh. I am kind of a blank slate when it comes to Thomas Payton. That's exciting to me. Yeah. Because you're you're new in my orbit. And I've every time, every time you've been on scene, I said, who is that guy? Yeah. And then we made some music recently together at a house party. At a birthday party. That was fun. Shout out to Dave. Oh my gosh. That was incredible, dude. I was just happy to be, you know, I hadn't my first time been there. Oh that was that was my first time, I think. Well, no, we had shared the stage um at Pines Fest. At the Pine Fest. Wow. So I love what I hear from you. And I'm so curious to know more about

Artist Wellness, Self-Care & Breathwork

SPEAKER_01 0:57

you. So here we are in the studio. All right. So okay, the camera didn't catch this before, but we're actually talking about some self-care routines. Oh that I think I love it. That I was surprised to hear. But actually, I love I wanted I wanted to start with that. Um, you you said after this you might go get a pedicure. Actually, I am. It's not my, it's scheduled. Yeah. So and then you were you were saying, but I love this. You said you said if someone takes a picture of my hands, they need to be looking good.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Oh yeah. And nails need to be clipped, get all that, you know, get that cuticle.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

I never think about that, but I'm and I'm a guitarist, so I need to like uh-oh. It's helpful. Let's get these off the camera for now.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

But is it harder when you're when your nails are a little longer, is it harder to play or do they get in the way?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

It is actually, but you know what? I've been a lifelong bad habit. My good friend. Okay, I'm working on that. So what is your um how do you how do you think about uh because I like what you're actually saying about your body. It wasn't just about the photos, about the the nails. It was about we we stand on our feet all day. We use our our our you know, for for you especially, your fingers are a tool. Yeah, right. So how do you think about your body and and and the physical the physical realm and and how it relates to your music?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Uh well, you only have one, and you have to really take care of it. And I think it's important, man, to um, I don't think we think about how much um we do, um, how much stress you know is on our bodies, on our, you know, bones and muscles. And um, if you don't take care of that, man, it's harder to function at your highest, you know, capacity when it comes to music, when it comes to anything. I didn't realize how much stress I hold in my shoulders. Wow. And how that relates to my spine and how that relates to headache and migraines. Wow. And so, like, really just always trying to relax, always, you know, stretching, you know, breathing. You know, some people don't know how to breathe. It's actually a technique to breathing, you know. And so some people don't think about it, you know, how important that is to your everything is one, you know, from the head to toe.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

So I am so impressed because you're a younger man than I am, and I'm just learning. So I'll love everything you just said. It feels like I'm just getting up to speed with. So how what how have you, yeah, where did you all that all that you that you just said, how did you learn that? And you know, where did you discover that? Uh really everywhere. Um the stress, like tell me about the the breathing and the the thing about the shoulders, because you're so right.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Well, so I have asthma. So I learned about breathing at an early age and how to breathe, um, and how it would be best for me and environments. Certain environments aren't um aren't good for me. Dusty environments, you know, uh dependent on the allergy, you know, uh pollen, stuff like that. So breathing techniques are I've learned that from an early age. Um, and then Pilates instructors, they'll tell you. Like, I know one personal, uh, shout out to La Toya Shane. Uh I love that. She's an artist here as well. Uh, but she's a Pilates instructor. And so she, I mean, just ask her questions, man. She'll let you know about your body and let you know things you should be doing, um, stress areas. Uh, and Pilates is hardcore, man. Like, people think it's easy.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

I, you know, I no, it's not. Yeah. I mean, yoga, Pilates, breath, or even the breath work, breathing the way you should, whatever that means. And I'm learning that all the time, but sometimes that's a lot harder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

And applying it is even harder. Because I know I know this information, but I'm still working on applying it every day. Absolutely. So, yeah, you just gotta take care of your body, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

That's so powerful. That makes me realize, like, um, that so much, and I've been thinking about this lately,

Growing Up in Church & Family Influence

SPEAKER_01 5:02

so much of my upbringing when I was cutting my teeth, it was not it was in a music scene and an environment that was definitely not health and the body and all of the things you were talking about were not present in those spaces. And it was actually more of a party with alcohol, drugs, whatever, you know. So, but tell me about like it seems like you came from a different sp, you know, you're not coming from that party space. I mean, is that because you're a church musician? I mean, tell me about, I don't know, how how would you explain that?

SPEAKER_02 5:38

It has a little bit to do with that. Um I've been in those environments though. Yeah. Um, but you won't see me fully, like I'll have a drink. Yeah. Or a couple. Uh, but you won't really see me fully engaged in the party environment because I didn't grow up that way. I did grow up in church. Um, so that has something to do with it, you know. Um, and just also what you learn um because like my father and my uncles, and you know, because they weren't in those environments, they focused on different things. So a lot of it was family time, you know, going to the gym, yeah, you know, doing that. So yeah, my dad's 50 and he's still 51, I'm sorry, and we still play basketball like he's in his 20s. So I mean, I stand in shape and he plays those drums like he's in his 20s. Shout out to Demary Six. Yes, another shout out.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Hey, I and I did not know that that was father and son for a long time. Because I had I had been on stage with him once, and and that was an amazing energetic experience. So he he's got a lot of fire, you know. Yeah, my dad told me a lot. So yeah, no, let's let's unpack that. I want to know. Um, like you tell me more about your your youth and specifically the me the elders in your life, your dad and and the others that you know shape you. Oh, they did.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

That's literally almost all I know. Uh so my dad uh growing up, he you know, he was gigging a lot. And um, and so for me it was more of um I had great examples. Let's just say that. Um, yes, they were hands-on at times, but I think they also gave the proper space and the proper um willingness to to for me to choose if if that was my career path or not. Um so I didn't as much as they influenced me and raised me and um really uh set the example and set the stage for me, they also knew when to be hands-on and hands-off. Okay. Um, which I think is very important, like with a young child, is don't be too hands-on with them. Let them, you know, explore, let them, you know. But I ended up where I was supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah. So what are what what in what ways do you think your musical path or your creative path maybe diverged if it did from your examples? Like, is there things that you have done or musical st musical ways that you express yourself that that you feel somehow is going somewhere different?

Self-Taught Musicianship & Musical Exploration

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Or do you feel like it's very much in the same I don't know, mm-hmm? You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's like when they when they were hands off what happened.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

You know, a lot. Yeah. Because I explored a lot on my own. Um I had a teacher for maybe a year, a piano teacher. Um and how how old were you? I was 15. Okay. Yeah. And so and then after that, uh it was back to exploring on my own. So I think honestly, most of my journey with music, I did a lot of exploring on my own. And um that just had to do with learning from um people that had done it before me. So it's real simple, just you know, looking up the people that I looked up to, Jake Korea, um Dave Welker, uh just a lot of different, you know, Oscar Peterson, R. Tatum, like those guys who did it weird. So you're a jazz piano player then. Because I've heard you Yeah, I've come like I listen to everybody. Yeah. So then I think when I play, it's never just one thing. Um because as much as I listen to them, I listen to the gospel guys too. Yeah. Kevin Bonds and the Mike Burrells.

Jazz, Gospel & Building a Musical Identity

SPEAKER_02 9:38

But then I also listen to like Corey Henry, the people who kind of like fusion those things together church, jazz, you know, pop, all the different things. So I listen to really everybody just so I can see what I like about them, and then implement that in what I do.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

I hear that in your style. And so I'm fusion is the good word, but not jazz fusion. But I hear a fusion because it's um there's something for me with the piano players that I played with, there's something very to my ear. There's something fresh about about what you do. And it's almost um, I love it. It's it's a little bit heady, but but in the best way. That's like maybe the jazz part of it coming in. Like it makes it kind of scrambles my brain in a good

Reimagining Songs & Creative Collaboration

SPEAKER_01 10:26

way for a second. And that's what I like with certain harmonies, but it it also has this soulfulness, this earthiness, you know. And so you kind of explained it right there, but that that makes so much sense to me. And that's what excites me when I'm when I'm on stage with you.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Oh, well, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

We're doing no, we're doing that. Okay, I you know, I've talked, I've talked about this with you many times and Bianca, but the the root mod version of yellow by Coldplay, which, you know, I'm probably responsible for half the listens online to that. I just love that. Oh good. Yeah, that's wow. I mean, that original track is very basic harmony, right? You know, and it's great. Right. But what but you guys have totally just scrambled it in the best way, you know, and it just like it just makes me, just lights me up, you know.

Sponsor Break: Swade Dispensary

SPEAKER_01 11:19

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NAMM, Endorsements & Expanding Beyond St. Louis

SPEAKER_01 12:03

you're in LA, you're at the NAM convention. Is that how you say it? Yeah, because some people say NAM. Yeah, no, no, I know. No, no, no, yeah, that's why I had to ask. I was like, well, of course I've never been there. But that's kind of like the what is that, the the gear summit of the universe, basically, right? Yep. And so you're posting videos there, and you're just whiz kitting on the frickin' keyboard with other people, and I'm like, who is this guy? And then you're sharing that you'd orchestrated live TV performances. So like I'm I'm dying to know about that whole world. I mean, your St. Louis story I love. Now, when does it when does it go coast to coast like that?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Uh, it just depends on who I'm connected with. Um, a lot of people I'm connected with don't live here. Um, some of them live in LA. By the way, yeah, it's great. Uh, because I like to branch out and try different things, meet new people. Um especially most of it, really, to be honest, stems from social media. Um, and then just taking those people you meet there and actually getting to meet them in person. Yeah. Um, so a lot of reasons I well, the first reason I went to Nam was just to go because I was told by my uncle, his name is uh Levi To King. Uh do you know Landon King? I guess Latin King. They're my cousins. Okay. But they uh learning a lot.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

All the names you're dropping is good for me.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

That's the music history for me in my family. Okay. Is you know, him, uh, my dad, my dad's brother, David Hicks, um Bianca and Daniel's father. Yeah. I never so we all yeah, yeah. That's like our family music history, really. Wow. Yeah. So wait, aren't you cousins?

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Full on blood. Yeah. So they originally, my uncle told me, you know, go to NAM. It's a great experience. You should go at least once. That turned into five times. Uh I went once and thought it was amazing. There's so many things to do, so many things to see, um, people to meet, um, gear to look at and try. So then the year, the second year I went, I got my first endorsement there. And so then they gave me a reason to come back.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

So, what does that mean to have an endorsement? As a as a person as a young person.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

It's like to be sponsored, or you know, it's the similar thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

It's um did you have a group at the time, or was it just not just you? Just me. And did that happen because you were sitting down literally at the piano and they saw you? Literally. Because that's how I feel when I'm watching your videos. You got yeah, some chops, dude.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

They saw me the first year I went, and so then the second year they said, you know, come back. Wow. Um, um, so then they signed me that year, the second year. Um, and then every year I've gone, I've gotten a new endorsement, or maybe one or two. So now I'm just going. Um, really, just to, and you know how as musicians, we pay for everything. We pay for our gear, we pay for, and it's expensive.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Well, unless you're endorsed.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Yeah, but unless you're endorsed, you either get a really good discount or they'll send you something for free. So it just helps. For me, I just want to, for all of you out there, I just like to pay for the least amount of things as I possibly have to. Oh, yeah. We got some thunder. What does that mean, man? I just think, you know, God's just up there doing his thing. He's trying to let us know that he's still there, you know. Uh, but yeah, so yeah, I try to not pay for as many things as I possibly can. Yeah. Um, save as much money as possible. So if that means I can offer, you know, uh contribution, then I'll do so.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah, absolutely. For sure. That must be an increase. So that's I love hearing that about you because that sets you apart from so many well, I don't know how many, but plenty of working musicians here because I love that sense of you uh engaging with the outside world. And I think that's so crucial. It's necessary, it's necessary and rich and all that stuff. And and so what keep I mean, you're still here though. So to what keep is you know, is that a choice? Is that other factors? Like what keeps you rooted here with with also those big broad horizons?

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Uh um the living environment. Yeah. Um, I think LA is and in and places like New York are pretty extreme. Yeah. And uh how so? I think New York is extreme as far as um just really close quarters with people. Yeah. Um you know, not much space, but a lot of money. Uh LA is similar, um, but also very spread out in the same at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Um what's your favorite if you between those two places? Yeah. Because they're so different.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

So different. New York is different, man. Uh New York is something different. Yeah. Something about New York, when you go there, you feel like you're on a different planet. Like just I know what you're saying. There is no other city like New York. Yeah. Really. And so when you're there, it's um the culture, the history. Um, you feel it when you're there. Um, and so I've last year I went about four times. Um

Film Scores, Inspiration & Creative Curiosity

SPEAKER_02 17:23

once was um with uh my friend Sanka. Um, she's the goat. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

I I hope that I hope to have her sitting in that chair soon because I'd love to hear her story.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Oh man, she's incredible, man, and she's a workaholic like me, so we share that in common. Um, so we've done a lot of projects together. A lot.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Um I did not realize that. I cannot wait to hear those.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Oh yeah, man. We uh we did a movie, we scored a movie together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

That's what I'm talking about. I love these, all these projects you're involved with are so they're so beyond St. Louis in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

You know, and I find that inspiring.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah. I'm inspired. So then I like to go out and you know, go out and really seek those things and find those things.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

When you say you're inspired by everything. Yeah. You're just like, that's a state of being. You're saying that's what I heard.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

How do you was that is that like natural or do you cultivate that or I think it's natural, man.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

I think when you're a kid, I think I was, you know, blessed to um just kind of do my own thing. And so therefore you you find inspiration in a lot of things, especially when you're not in those specific areas, you know, like I'm inspired by Broadway and by, you know, the movies, movie scores and all that stuff. So when you're inspired by that and that intrigues you, um, when those opportunities come, you you go for it. Cause you're like, man, I've been inspired by this my whole life. Yeah. So to have this opportunity in front of me, I'm taking it. Cause I I've always wanted to do something like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

So I think that's a beautiful sentiment about being inspired by just not just music. Oh yeah. You know, because I know in my life recently, especially films, I've been I've been feeling so more than just entertained by them. Like I'm I'm actually I'm I'm somehow I'm feeling I don't know how exactly, but I feel like it's making its way into my my music.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

And I can't explain how or why. And I think it also takes years in my experience for the inspiration to move through you and then and then actually be naturalized in you, if that makes sense. You know? Like licks that I learn or um runs or whatever type of music it might take for me, it takes years until all of a sudden I'm on stage one day.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

And I do something that with the ease and the uh presence, it just takes a while. You know what I mean? I'm not trying, I'm not saying, oh, I gotta sing this right here.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

It just happens. Yeah. You know? That's when you know, like, you know, your brain is uh a computer sometimes. Yeah. There's there's lots of things, a lot of memories, a lot of you know things that your brain records naturally. Um and you don't know that it's there until it comes out. Yeah, it comes out in a lot of ways. Drama, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's you know, the dark side of it, but the good side is just beautiful memories. And as stuff comes out, man, you know, I I do it the same, feel the same way. If I'm playing a song or um, you know, I'll find out that it was a reference to like a movie that I've you know watched, or if I'm writing a song, it's like, wait, I've heard this melody before. And it might be a little, you know, a little Disney movie or a little, you know, you just never know. It all comes back because it's all there. Yeah, it doesn't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

So I love this kind, I love this talk about influence and inspiration. Yeah. What are the things lately that that have nothing to do with music? Or at least if it is music, it's a totally different scene. What what are you hungry for these days and you feel like you're taken in?

Youth, Optimism & Staying Inspired

SPEAKER_02 21:13

That's a good question. Um I think the thing that inspires me now is um I just love how the youth feel so um optimistic about life. Um because we all know as adults what's going on. And we see the things that go on in this world, and a lot of times that you know kind of hinders our optimism and um loss of innocence. Loss of innocence.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

You're talking about youth. Youth, yeah. Like they I have a little cousin, man. Uh my little sister, let's just talk about that. She um she's amazing, she's super talented. Um and uh The world is her oyster man when it comes to where she wants to go to school and how she wants to pursue music. Um, but like, dude, she's won singing competitions, she's um like a genius when it comes to school averaging 4.0.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

What's going on with this family? Oh man. Like not the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah, it's it's it's rich in music, man. Wow. So that like she inspired like that her the unknown of her journey re-inspires me again. Um, and same with I think that's just what I mean about you know the youth. Like they, you know, they haven't gotten there yet. And they're still so much, so they're so excited and they're so youthful, and that reminds me to still remain youthful and remain, you know, have that, you know, childlike faith to to just do and explore. Um, I try to keep that in mind when I'm doing things and not to get too um not to get too logical. Um, because I'm a logical person. Really

Logic, Music Theory & Creativity

SPEAKER_02 23:08

as a creative, you can just see how that can get in the way uh in some ways. But especially with all the music theory. Oh, yeah. It's all math up here, man. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Because as a sing, it's funny, as a singer, I'm like, it's almost never logical for me. Right. And and I've tried to actually correct some of that and like um learn more music theory and learn more um harmonic theory with vocalists and stuff. And that's been great, but I'm I've always like came from a totally self-taught place different than what you had. Right. You know, you were self-taught, but you had all these. I think you were just teaching yourself more, I guess. I don't know. It's it's been it's just interesting to hear you say that because I think singers are a lot less logical. I think. But when I sit down and play the piano and I'm a novice, but it's like it's makes me laugh because it's so logical. Yeah. And and it's all it's actually refreshing. I go, oh my, this is incredible. Like it's so clear because the guitar is so weird because you're never really, especially as a young kid, you're like playing it, but you're not really like looking at it.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

So you're just so hard to feeling it out.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Yeah, it's like I I I people always say, You play a thousand instruments. I'm like, I do not. I play drums, piano, and bass. And then after that, you know, organ and but organ and piano interchangeable, but um guitar has been the one thing I cannot nail, mainly because I don't try, because it gets frustrating.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Yeah, it's a weird thing, but it's also I've noticed like what I feel like whatever, maybe, maybe this is just me, but like whatever your first instrument is to me feels like the least logical one. Exactly. Because you're just kind of connecting with it on such a basic childlike level. Yep. And that's a good thing. Yeah. Um, but I always feel like when I can uh flip the switch of my guitar brain and try to learn something as as a novice now, like it's easier for me to learn guitar. Right. Uh what am I trying to say? It's it's if I pretend it's like the piano, if I'm just like actually learning it right. Right. You know? Yeah. But that's also kind of uh that logic that's kind of lame if it's just yeah, it's just like if there's no feeling and soul.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Yeah. Logic is should it's just supposed to help you. Yeah, not to make sense. To make make sense of things, not to yeah. And sometimes my logic and you know, especially in debates, I'm like, that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

And I'm just like, well, not everything has to make sense. Yeah, what are you debating? I mean, are you debating musical terms? Are you is that you talking about it? Or just life, just in general, conversation.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Sometimes I, you know, I like to see what how people think. I'm very like intrigued by how people really think. And um just because I think you can learn so many things about people, and you can learn so many things about yourself, um, things that ways that you don't think, and you're like, hmm, that's pretty cool. So um sometimes I to me when I'm debating things, it's for fun. It's just to learn about the person, you know, and um so yeah, that whole thing is just that's where I feel like, you know, logic and all that kind of gets in the way. But with music, I have to try to remain creative um and use logic to just make certain things make sense. Um I think that's what theory I think that's what makes theory hard to certain people, is making it make sense and making it easy to understand to still be able to play and be free. And yeah, you know, so you do need logistics in a in a sense to to make piano and certain things make sense because it's just math. It's music is math. Yeah, it's psychological too and science, all that, but it's certain things just work when you plug in the formula. Isn't that crazy to me?

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Like it's crazy that it's like feels like uh it was already there, you know? Like when I think of math, and I'm I am no mathematician, but it just keeps me in awe because I go, it's not like it's not like it was created, yeah. It was like discovered. Yeah, yeah. And that is trippy. It is very it's very trippy.

Sponsor Break: Brick City Yoga

SPEAKER_01 27:23

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Film Scoring Meet Cute in Manhattan

SPEAKER_01 27:55

What I wanna I love hearing about the movie scores and and the nam trips and all that stuff. So what do you if I if if you had to highlight what your highlight reel, maybe your your proudest moment, if you can answer that, or just your big, I don't know, what's your big flashy thing like that? You said, I can't believe I did this, or I want to tell people about this. Because I don't know your whole career.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

True. Um, unfortunately, one and two of those things are NDAs that I had to sign up. Well, that's even better. As much as I want to, guys. That is incre okay. That's even better. Yeah, yeah. I would love to mention those, but when they come out, okay, maybe we'll have to reconvene and talk about um man. Honestly, I think one of the proudest things um was that movie, man. Um with Sanka. It was, yeah, it was new. It's my first time ever getting into that space. Um, and so to be trusted with that was also um like the director and um the writers, the the whole team. Just to say they trust me to make this movie come to life was was huge. That's not an NDA, right? That's oh no, it's it's pretty happy. It's on uh Amazon Prime. It's called Meet Cute in Manhattan. Uh it's on Amazon Prime. You stream it. Yeah, I'm gonna go home and watch that. Nice little rom com if you guys sweet.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Talk about inspiration through film. Oh, be inspired.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Oh man, it's it's a it's a I like it. I like rom-coms.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Was that your was that the the NAM connections or like how that okay?

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Yeah, wow. She she was connected with the director in New York, um, because she went to New York to work on the film, and then um they needed somebody to do the music.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

So are you and so Sonka's part of Life Creative, or at least has that's how I first is is that how you guys got connected or Shock City?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah,

St. Louis Creatives & Community Connections

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Shock City, okay. I did some sessions there through Life Creative group. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

What do you think about like I want to know more about this? Because you're like a you're like maybe like 10 years younger than I am. So it's like this, it's like this this scene that I'm curious about, all these all these young creatives. What tell me tell me about what's going on in St. Louis with all these different people and does it feel like a scene, or is it I don't know, like is it random or is there's are are you guys all together like doing this amazing stuff all the time?

SPEAKER_02 30:27

The crazy thing is I think even I think we're all in different circles, which is crazy. Um we're we all know each other. Yeah, but like there are people who I haven't really worked with here, unfortunately. Um and they will say the same. They they probably wish that we would do more. Um, but we all because like most of my family, they I mean I have my mom's side of the family here, but my dad's side, they all grew up in Illinois. Well, they all live in Illinois. Um, so a lot of my home base is there. Um, so then I didn't really get into the St. Louis music scene until I was probably about 20. Um, so most of my childhood was growing up in church on that side. So um, so really to be honest, um I think there's a lot going on. Um, and I think it's a lot of good things. Um, I do work with a lot of people, uh, the younger people my age, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Um we're not that different. Yeah, no. But but you're the youngest guest I've had on so far. And it's just there is enough of a difference where you and Sonka and that the the kids in their 20s, yeah. It's it's not my scene or whatever. And I'm just like starting to I'm there's a little bit of crossover through Grelly. That's how I met you or Bianca and all that stuff. And when you talk about the different how how we're all aware of each other, but we're not always like working together. Yeah. And I'm so hungry for more of that, yeah, more of that connection because that's like so electric to me.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yeah, you know. I think there's just um, you know, St. Louis, we don't really have an industry here. We had this conversation,

Why St. Louis Needs Music Infrastructure

SPEAKER_02 32:10

yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Exactly. And that was the that was the genesis for me. I said, we got I gotta have him on. Yeah, because I love we had like a 20 two-minute conversation of this loud house party. But I love exactly what you said about we don't have an industry, so we don't, yeah, we don't have that here.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

We we uh we should, but uh we don't. And so um we should, but we don't. Why don't we? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

I don't know the answer to that.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

But it's one of those conversations that we need to have the city here and the the mayor and all now. Okay, no, but you know, no, but maybe you're right. Funding, man. It's it's it's the where you choose to fund your money when you have um a city that um and I I've never this is just loose talking, so I've never owned a city, so don't quote me on these things. Um I don't own a city currently, but I just think just like anything, when you say I say you own a house or say you own a building and you're like, this is what I want this building to do. This is how I want it to operate, this is how this building in business is gonna make me money. And the priority of what are the priority priorities? So if you feel that sports and medicine drive your city, you're going to that's where your money's gonna go. Um, and so for our city, I just think that's where it goes. Yeah. And the music scene just kind of gets, you know, the little bits of you're right, it's taken for granted. Yeah. And I think if they really thought about it or realize that the creative scene in St. Louis really kind of drives the city.

unknown 33:50

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah. But it may not, you know, create as much, you know output as far as money, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

But well, not in the short term. Not in the short term, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

But also it takes investment.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

It's like if you build it, we will cultivate it and we will make it shine. We'll make it do what it do. Because right now we do what what we can. Yeah. Um, because we don't really have that that structure, that infrastructure. So I think you have to cultivate that, man. You have to push for that. And this to me, St. Louis doesn't really support that. So um we have to, but we support each other. Yeah. And I don't like when I hear people that say, well, St. Louis doesn't support each other. And they are always, you know. And I'm like, well, we try. You know, but people have to do what they have to do. A lot of us have jobs as creatives. We really have to work. Um, and so um, thankfully, I don't have to, but you know, at the same time, I have to work in other ways and do other things outside of here just to make up so I can live here. Yeah, you know, so if you know, if I didn't, you know, cities like Nashville and New York, they know and they they invest in that.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

They know that music and well and they know see Nashville's interesting because I feel like they know now. Now I'm not an expert on it, but like that whole country music industry, that wasn't like, and once again, I I don't know for sure, but it's like that that all came about in like the 50s.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

That whatever we know now, and I don't it's not like the city was investing in it. I mean, it so it's it's more I don't know, it's just interesting, but I agree with you that I feel the same way because I always use the example of downtown. Like there's all this there's this constant dialogue in St. Louis among the business community, or just like whatever the the all the news outlets about like downtown's not hopping, or like why can't we get it going? You know, the way other neighborhoods are going. And to me, I'm like, dude, I have one answer for you, and that's like there's no live music. Yeah, not really down there. Um there's just nothing to do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm like, I'm like, it all if there's not even a place I'm not playing down there. No, I'm not hanging out down there because there's no music. There used to be, by the way, 10 or 20 years ago, I used to go see some great music down there, and it's like it all dried up, and sometimes like people are scratching their heads trying to figure out downtown. Yeah. And to me, I'm like, start getting some some hip music there, and like everything else kind of follows that. Yeah. Maybe that's a simplistic, but I I believe that.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah. I think, you know, we could. I think you just you know, you have to band together. You have to. Everybody has to be, you know, on one accord and and do it together. Cause I think we could. Um, I think it's possible. Because I'm a little optimistic. I think anything is possible. I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

I feel I'm always operating from possibility and energy and in inspiration. And I I'm totally picking up what you're putting down.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Well, we've done things. We've done amazing things in the city, and um unfortunately a lot of things just don't get repeated because people people just kind of run dry and yeah, they're not they're seeing the lack of the support from the upper, you know, class or whatever it may be. Um and so um, you know, and then also we gotta look at the situation of um this federal funding, man. We're not receiving it like it, like it was. Yeah, you know. So um that also might, you know, grants and stuff like that, like they're harder to find. Yeah. They're not just there. And so I think it just it's a lot of things that, you know, um affect our possibilities and things that we could do with music scene here. Um, but I think as long as I think it's great. I think as long as we keep pushing and and and um creating our own infrastructure, I think there are ways um that we can help it grow. Um and maybe just getting some attention from outside, you know, different regions. And um that's why a lot of things I like connecting with people from different cities because you

Artists as Ambassadors for St. Louis

SPEAKER_02 38:09

never know, man. They might be like, well, what's going on in St. Louis? Well, not much. Well, how can we help? You never know. Yeah. So it's good to connect with people outside.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

I think musicians that are doing um act doing art outside of St. Louis are sort of unofficial ambassadors of the city. Yeah. You know, when my band has been touring, we've been God knows where across the country. And people are like having the time of their life seeing this band. They're going, Who are you guys? This is incredible, and where are you from? You know, and it's like that's that's a that's a big deal. And that's also not really um that doesn't fit in the sort of official uh the what you were talking about with the funding, you know, like like the boosterism of St. Louis or the branding of St. Louis. No one's thinking about why don't we just send all these musicians like all across the country? Yeah, yeah. And like that's gonna have a big impact, I think. Yeah. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm not actually. No, I I believe in that. It's just hard. The creative world, it's hard to translate that to the logical business mind.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

You know what I mean? Yeah, because they don't see the value. But the thing is, I don't know how you don't see the value when how come New York sees the value? Yeah, how come LA sees the value, Atlanta, Nashville? How come these cities see the value?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah. And want to But do they sometimes I think they see the value because they saw it after they had it?

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Maybe I don't know. Maybe they did, but I'm like, who knows, man? And I've never lived in these other places, so I don't know. So what did people when you're traveling? I'm curious what what do people think about St. Louis?

SPEAKER_02 39:50

They don't know about it. Okay, some of them know about it, um, you know, based on um, I just had this conversation recently with someone. Um, they'll like some people know the past, so they just don't really know the present, how St. Louis is now.

How Other Cities See St. Louis

SPEAKER_02 40:06

But they have references, you know. They'll say, Oh, you know, you guys have the Cardinals, and yeah, they'll say, Oh, Chuck Berry's from there, or um, you know, uh Metro Boomin' or Okay, because the Chuck Berry thing, all those old examples, I love those, they're very real for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

But it's sometimes I'm like, that's ancient history. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not they don't like that you brought up Metro Boomin, but even that or Nelly, that's the main and that still feels it's it's interesting. And by the way, the history is important, and like yeah, even Chuck Berry, that music, even though in one breath I'll say it's ancient history, on the other hand, when I listen to it, it's very alive to me, that music. And same with Nelly. Yeah, dude, when I still think, when I still watch that music video, I I almost am in tears with with excitement and pride.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah, you know, yeah, we we um there's a lot of good, rich history here. Um, and so I think when I'm out, I just think people don't know much about what's going on, which is why I love when people say, Where are you from? Because I'm just like St. Louis. And they're like, Well, okay, I know, you know. And the good thing is like a lot of people know about Chicago. So then they for some reason they when they think of Chicago, they have a reference for St. Louis. They'll say, like, oh I know someone in Chicago that's from St. Louis. Or like, you know, yeah, that makes more sense. Yeah, they'll say, like, oh, I've uh the funniest thing to me is when people say, Oh, I've been to St. Louis, I had a layover there. And I'm just like, okay, that's all you know, huh? And I mean, but I feel the same way about some cities that probably are, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

But I would hope everyone has a better sense of awareness.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

I I wish.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Like, I'll never forget uh the Mighty Pines were playing in Massachusetts at a bar, and we were talking to some guy, and he said, I mean, he literally, these people, like these this East Coaster guy, he said, something like St. Louis. Okay, where's St. Louis at? I'm trying to tell him. He goes, Okay, yeah, you you guys live in a bunch of cornfields. And I'm like, dude, I mean, I'm talking like I'm just I just wanted to like slap this guy. I'm like, dude, this is the red brick capital of the world. I've been born and raised in South St. Louis, like built environment. Like it couldn't be further from the country. Oh, yeah, you know? So and a lot of people don't even know where St. Louis is. That that they didn't even that's a that's a that's a cultural problem. Like an American, that's that's you know what I mean? Because I also I'm the same way. I'm like, what happened to doesn't people know the maps? Like, didn't we learn this in grade school?

SPEAKER_02 42:42

You know, they dude, I'm so many people they're like, what state is St.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Louis in? And I'm like, dude, oh yeah. Well that's when I feel that's when I don't have optimism for that yes, the general the general direction of the civilized world, by the way. Yeah, you know, it gets rough, and and I do find a lot of inspiration and hope and grounding in actually the past, yeah, yeah. You know, the music of the past, or at least the old of old style ways of doing things that like you learn from

Closing Thoughts & Transition to Performance

SPEAKER_01 43:14

your elders. Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah um before the internet came into the world and screens and all this. Anyway, it's crazy, dude. Okay. I wish we could, I wish we could keep keep riffing here. Oh, yeah. And I'm having the best time. Oh, yeah. We're running out of time here. Um, I want to thank you, Thomas, for being here today. I want to have you back when the NDAs are no more than NDAs. Okay, because I can't wait to hear about that. But in the meantime, I'm gonna go stream Meet Cute in Manhattan. Oh, yeah. I got good memory, man. I would have forgot that.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

No, that wasn't yesterday. That was 20 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

So you're a man of mystery to me because you're also the uh this math genius on the piano you know how do you remember what song you just played okay well thank you for everything what a rich conversation thought provoking inspiring um I know people are gonna love it and I'm so so proud to have you here my friend so let's do some music huh all right

Sponsor Break: Kuva Coffee

SPEAKER_01 44:22

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SPEAKER_00 44:49

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Live Performance

SPEAKER_00 45:07

never felt so alone I didn't see this coming there's an aching in my bones and it came from loving I never felt so alive funny how it works like that I'm just trying to survive all I wanna see is you walk in through that door bringing love back into my life what else is living for I wanna kiss and hold you I'm reaching for you now while the longest night that I've ever known continues on somehow So many questions bouncin's around my head still I'm asking why why'd I break my baby's heart why I make her cry all I ever wanted was a little peace of mind peace of mind I'm broken and I'm busted I can't see the way burned out and disgusted I've thrown my dreams away the minutes move so slow without you by my side I'm sorry for the way I am and the things that I can't hide my body's shaking my head is hot it hurts to be at home my heart is empty now my spirit is alone I'll always remember this precious love I've known love I know love I know love I've known love I know I'm feeling all the memories right here right now trying so hard to let go but I don't know how I'll have to turn my back some way somehow I'm getting ready for my longest night is taking everything I've got the tears are coming my breath is thin my stomach is enough all I see around me is everything I've lost everything I lost everything