The Crazy Trip of Revelation: End Times or Today?

Revelation is the craziest book of the Bible. Many people fear it. Some people hate it. It’s much better to understand it and enjoy the crazy ride. In this episode, I show a way to enjoy it without the fear of the hate. It’s all about how to use the book. Most people use it like a secret decoder ring of the future. But most of Christian history people didn’t think this. This is both a fun and a serious episode. Revelation is a fun rollercoaster ride that teaches what God thinks about empire and power at the same time. It can be uplifting and it is used for a lot of harm. I hope you will see it for what it is instead of what people use it for. 

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the Real Bible Rub teencast. Today is about a crazy trip, a crazy trip through Revelation. And you wonder, well, what does this have to do with anything? What does it have to do with me? For good reasons and bad reasons, it has a lot to do with you because this one book of the Bible, the very last book of the Bible, is the craziest book by far. And it's used in lots of different ways. So the it's used in ways that are very fearful. In fact, you go to many churches, you may have heard this yourself. You may have friends that talk about the end of the world, that there's going to be all these flying angels and the beasts and uh all of this warfare, Armageddon, if you've heard of that. And um, and that's caused or that and that's talked about to make you afraid, afraid of the future, or to say, you know, unless you're in the right way with God, this is gonna happen to you. Um, and that causes a lot of people to hate the book. Um, a lot of people even reject it and just say, it's not, it shouldn't really be in the Bible. But then a lot of other people say, well, no, this is the whole point of the Bible, is for end times. So how do you move away from that sort of fear-based way of talking about it? And away from sort of that hateful or wanting to hate the book and wanting to avoid it, to having some fun with the book and look into it and see that it's really a wild ride. It's crazy and it's crazy in a way that I think if you look at it in a different way, you can enjoy it instead of being afraid of it. Most people, um, especially in churches, uh, look at it as kind of like the secret decoder ring, right? You're you're if you just understand all these crazy images and how they're going to predict something in our future, then you know, then you can see into the future and you can be prepared for it. You can be ready for it. The only problem is that that's a very new idea. Um, new meaning, you know, in the last hundred, 150, 200 years or so. It's for most of Christian history, they didn't think about revelation that way. And we don't have to either. Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't believe that revelation talks about our future. I'm just saying that you need to know why uh and in what ways it talks about it. It's not a secret decoder ring, it's not um telling us about the future, especially when it comes to war or about Israel, which you might have heard as well. It's not really talking about those, but it's talking about the nature of God's relationship with people. And it's also talking about how empire works, how power works, how war works, and maybe in a way that you're not familiar with. So, I what I want to do is I want to give you some ideas about the different ways that people think about revelation. And when you can look at it that way, it can give you um the confidence to look at it and say, well, I believe this part of it, I believe that part of it. Um, I can see how this might tell me something about the future, but it's not, you know, it's not a thing to be afraid of. Uh, it's really important to look at it. And in some ways, this roller coaster ride of revelation is crazy. It's like a it's like a crazy trip. And, you know, you gotta go, what is this guy smoking? Right. But um it's I think that if you look at it for the reason why this guy named John, who wrote wrote it, who we're told wrote this book, wrote wrote it in the way he did, and what it was used for for the people that first read it, and what we can use for it in a different way. So let's get started by talking about what Revelation is. And I, you know, if you haven't read it, don't feel bad because it's uh 22 chapters long, it's pretty long, um, it's it's hard to follow. Um, the first um three chapters are pretty easy to follow, but they're not all that exciting. And this is where um uh Jesus uh it's a story about how Jesus, who's been risen, he's been resurrected, and he goes and he tells about these 12 churches in what's called what it what in uh cities that are in today's Turkey. So if you you know where Greece is and Turkey is, um if you know, you know, Athens and um in Istanbul and in that area, sort of in that western part of Turkey, that's where all the churches um that John's talking to are. And he has this idea that you know Jesus coming back and and telling them what they've done good and what they've done bad. So it's interesting, but it's not very exciting that stuff. What's exciting really starts happening in chapter four. And this is where you get some of the sort of the dream-like images, and um, and John kind of falls into a dream state, and he dreams about this this scroll with all these seals on it. Uh, not seals like, you know, that's not like circus seals, but you know, like um wax seals that go on papers to to make them official. And uh and how and who how they're gonna get broken and who they're gonna get broken by. I'll talk a little bit more about those seals a little bit later. So hang on. But then it goes into um many other images like this. And each time something happens to one of these seals or happens to um uh these lamps that happens to these other things, that um all these crazy things come out. We hear about the four horsemen in Revelation, and you know, the that bring disease and bring warfare and bloodshed and and all of this crazy stuff, right? And uh then um you you move after you go through these parts here, then you get these really hard images about the there's the woman uh with the sun and a dragon, and then there's the beast, and the beast is crazy, beast has all these heads and uh and horns and stuff like that, and then uh the beast, uh, and then there's a second beast, and then there's war, and um, and then there's like Jesus on a horse, and you know, and they're they're fighting this huge war, and then there's pestilence, you know, meaning like disease, and then there's uh um a time of peace, and there's times of what they call tribulation. You may have heard of this. Some people even talk about there being a rapture. You may have heard of rapture, right? Where uh, you know, some the believers will be taken away and taken to heaven, and all of those, you know, not so bel not believers or bad people will be left behind to be tortured and stuff like that. Um, that actually is not in Revelation. That's a that um that idea of a rapture of the um of the faithful or the rapture of the believers um is flying off to heaven while everyone else is left behind. That is not uh uh in Revelation. That um is kind of a made-up thing that happened about 200 years ago. There was this uh um uh there's this preacher from uh England who fell off a horse, and I think he must have fallen on his head. His name is was John Nelson Darby. And he kind of came up with taking different verses of the Bible and pulling it together and this idea that this is our future. Uh, and there's gonna be this great great rapture. Um uh I have lots of if you're interested, just uh let me know. Um, I'll probably talk more about rapture in other episodes coming up. And then finally, then we have the vision of the New Jerusalem. And this new Jerusalem is supposed to be like a heavenly image. It's supposed to be where uh we are um uh you know supposed to be happy again and we're not threatened by war anymore and all of that. It's actually really weird because it's kind of like gold and diamonds and you know, crystal uh and all of that. It doesn't actually sound like a very fun place to be. I I always wonder, would Jesus really want to be in that place? Uh, because there's also this talk about people on the outside of this crystal uh New Jerusalem, you know, where all of the bad people are. And I I keep imagining, I think I'd rather be with the bad people. I think Jesus probably would too. But um, but you go, well, why are we on this weird roller coaster? Well, let me tell you why. And let me tell you about there are many ways to look at it, but I'll tell you about two main ways to look at revelation. And um if you can kind of hold those and say, oh, well, maybe I'm reading it in this way or that way, or thinking about it in this way or that way, without, you know, some uh church person or preacher telling me that, you know, it's only one way and you're, you know, the end times are coming, um, then maybe I think you you can get a lot more enjoyment out of the book and you can kind of put it in its place and and understand what it is. So let's start then with the idea of where this is. Uh this uh book was written um by somebody we know as John. A lot of people think that maybe that's the same John that was a disciple of Jesus or um or wrote the the Gospel of John. Who in two episodes I talked about the Gospel of John a little bit, but it's not. Um the uh it had it was written much later. Uh so there's no way that it's the disciple unless that disciple was a hundred years old or more when it was written. Um, sec first, and then secondly, um the Gospel of John was not written by anybody we know as John. So this book was definitely written later with a different John. And John was a very common name, right? It's like, you know, uh Joe or Bill or like John is today, right? Or Ryan or or I don't know, Joshua, all these names that you know, um, maybe your friends are, these people, you know, John's just a guy, okay. So we're told that John uh wrote this book to the churches in his area, uh, in this part of Turkey I was telling you about. And um, they were really afraid because um at the time, these all of this place was in the Roman Empire. And um almost everything we read about in the New Testament has to do with the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was just like kind of kind of like America is today, right? It was huge, it was super powerful, um, it was had the biggest military in the world, it could do almost anything, and um, and it's felt like every part of their lives was about the Roman Empire. Well, the Roman Empire was uh, you know, had a lot of good things to it because you know people were making money, they were doing business, they were doing all those good things, but it was also if you w got out of line, if you broke the law, if you didn't um uh pay your taxes or you didn't do the right things, those Romans, as we know, were terrible. They did things like crucify people. That that's why they it was the Romans that crucified Jesus. It was also the Romans that would come in and they would, you know, make warfare, they would crush revolts. So if you had people in a city protesting against Rome, those Romans would come in and crush them, you know, with their military. So um you go, well, this is kind of the environment. There was an environment of fear. Now, it was especially uh scary for Christians. Now, it may not be quite the way that we're told that, you know, Christians were thrown to the lions and and that. Now, sometimes that did happen, but that wasn't a big deal. It was much more like Christians couldn't buy and sell things, they couldn't worship openly, that things like that, because um the government, the Roman Empire, was afraid of them and um was afraid of that they might gather together to become uh to rebel and to go against them. So that's the uh was the way they felt in that part of Turkey about 100 AD, you know, around that time, um, which is about 70 years. So I mean, older than, you know, like your grandparents, you know, uh really old um and uh after Jesus. So that the Christians have been happening for a while, and then uh, but in this time they were really scared. So what do you do when you uh want to help people who are scared? Well, one of the ways you do that, and we do that today, one of the best ways to help people who are scared is to tell them stories, tell them good stories, tell them stories that will make them feel encouraged and want to, you know, go forward. Uh and that's exactly what revelation is. Revelation is a big story with and it's a fun story, it's a wild story, um, in in so that the people there could feel comfort and feel like, oh, maybe God is on our side. Maybe, maybe I don't need to be quite so afraid. Isn't that interesting? Because this book, which is used today so much to make people scared, make people scared about the future, make people scared. I'm maybe I'm not in the right kind of religion, maybe I don't believe the right way. Well, you better watch out, is sort of the way it's used. And that's not what it was written for. Uh when John was writing this, he was saying, I you're already scared. Here, I'm gonna give you a great story that has a great ending to it, that is great for our future, that gives you the idea that God will protect you and take care of you and will invite you into paradise together. And um that is uh to help you feel better, not feel worse. So that's the biggest part about revelation. So if you can understand that part when you read it, you realize the purpose of the book was not what we use it for today to scare people, it's exactly the opposite. It's used to take people who are already scared and give them encouragement and say, you know what? It's gonna be okay, no matter what, no matter what kind of beasts come your way, what kind of um warfare comes your way, uh, all of these things, because those things do happen, but you'll be okay. That's what the book is about. Isn't that isn't that interesting? But you know, we live in scary times too. A lot of us are, you know, we're scared about war. Um you know, we keep hearing uh about uh uh war in Iran and in other places. We're scared about the economy, you know. Um, am I gonna be able to, you know, go to school and have a career, get a job? Am I gonna be able to buy my own house? Am I going to be able to, you know, maybe marry someone and have children? Can I do those things? Those are all really uh important things. And it's it's easy to get scared about those things, whether they're gonna happen or not. Uh am I gonna have security? Well, you know, the people in 2,000 years ago almost that were reading this felt exactly the same way. They were scared of their own times in their own ways. You know, that may they had different problems and society was a lot different then, but you know, the same feelings were there, just like you and me. Um, we all have that same thing. So if we take this then as that book of encouragement, well, then how do we use that? Where does it come? So that's where it comes from. And there's lots of history uh about the church wanting what they were gonna do with this book because um revelations like there were other books kind of like it that had the same kind of stories in it, but um they uh chose uh this book, the book of Revelation, to put it in the Bible about two or three hundred years after it was written. And they chose it because it was a good, also encouraging and it was a good um representation. It was like the other books that were like it. They're all called uh um apocalyptic literature. Apocalyptic, that's a you know, a word for most people think of as end times, right? Or scary stuff. It's really just this kind of um revealing, looking at things in a new way. So they said, you know, let's make, let's choose this book because it's the most complete and it tells us the most about um the people at the time, and it tells us most about God and God's plan for us. That's why they chose us. But there were many times over um hundreds of years when they said, well, maybe it isn't the right book, and they tried to get it out and push it out and say, we don't need this book in the Bible. Even um the famous uh uh Protestant uh reformer, his name was uh Martin Luther, and you don't have to know his name, but if you do, he tried uh to push it out, and that was in the 1500s, you know, uh over a thousand years later. So that's kind of what we do with it today. Many of us, uh, there are a lot of Christians today who don't like the book and really just wish it wasn't there. There are other Christians today that say, oh, the book is telling us about our future. We need to, you know, figure it all out. What I'm asking you to do is um don't push it away and don't believe everything you hear about it. If you can do that, then you can really enjoy it a lot, a lot more. So so these are the two different ways to interpret it. One is, like I said, to look in the future, and the other one is to look into the past and what it was used for in the past. So I I think it's really there are parts of it that everybody agrees was in the past. And that's like those first three chapters when Jesus is talking to those churches. He's not talking to any of us, but although the things that he talks about are useful for us, right? Um, and then other people will say, well, everything beyond that from chapter four to chapter 22 is in our future. Um but even then, a lot of people say, No, not really. It's really only chapters 19 through 22 that are in our future. And then there are other people who say none of it's in our future. It was just a good story for those people in that time. So, what do you choose to believe about it? And that's kind of what um your is your choice. A lot more than people tell you, or it is is you can choose. So instead of just saying it's all bunk and I don't want to believe any. Of it, I think that the best thing to do is to say what parts of it make sense. How does it uh how does it tell me about God? How does it tell us about God and how God's working, and what parts don't or really don't fit? I think that's a much healthier way to look at it. One's called the futurist way, that futurist uh way, and the other one's called the um historical way. So that you you don't have to know those, but just think of it that way. So I think the the healthiest thing to do is to look at it and say, you know, it is written for people 2,000 years ago. It's not written for me, but is it useful for me? Does it tell me about how churches, how Christians should should live now? And yes, in a way it does. And does it tell me anything about our future or my future? Well, maybe, and but maybe not in the way that you've been told. If you look at it that way, I think that's a much healthier way to look at it. So um let's talk a little bit deeper about one or two images to get understand this. So everything about the book is about power. John in lots of this is talking about the Roman Empire and making fun of it. Now, the jokes that are in there, and there are a lot of jokes, there are a lot of crazy things. One of uh one of the um uh scholars I know, um, a great scholar, uh, you know, teaches at a university, is a professor, teaches about revelation. She goes, that beast looks like a drag queen to me. That beast is crazy, is shape-shifting and changing. You don't you can't tell what uh what gender that is or anything like that. That is a crazy image. And uh she points out a couple of places in Revelation where it's like that, where it's just um uh absurd. The you know, this beast has uh 10 different heads and has um has horns all over it. Um the angels have eyes all over them, have six wings, you know, it's just it's crazy. And a lot of it's kind of showy. So that's what she meant by it being a you know uh drag or camp, or if you've ever heard of those things. It's just it's it's just a kind of uh I I go, it's like the kitchen sink. You take every image you can think of and you throw it into one beast, and that's what you get. And I think that's what John did you just look at it and go, that's crazy. But when John is doing this, is he's making fun of the Romans. He's making fun of those people who are making uh their lives scary and miserable in these cities. So uh especially for the Christians. So you think about it, if you get a letter and you kind of go, hmm, that looks that sounds an awful lot like my Roman governor, or that sounds an awful lot like what you know, this temple I went to, this crazy image that they're forcing me to believe in. And um, John is writing this funny story to make fun of them, to mock them, to put them down, to make, you know, it's kind of like, you know, when something's really frightening and you can't see it in the dark, John kind of flips the light on. So you can see what these people are really like. And that's what uh that is definitely. So whether you believe this is our future or our past, that there is no doubt that that's one of the things that John's trying to do. He's trying to make fun of these powerful things. So that's one image. Another image I really want you to know about, because you'll hear about it a lot. If you're um a uh, if if you don't go to church or you haven't been in that kind of a church, you may have never heard of this. But if you do go to church, especially those churches that are really, you know, tell you about hell and tell you about sin and trying to, you know, control the way you think, you'll hear this all the time. And that is in chapter five, it says um there's a story about the lion. And it says uh that John, who is having this image, this dream, right? He's maybe sounds more like a nightmare to me, but you know, John's having a dream, and he's talking to one of the elders in the in the with God, and then there's a scene about being in the throne room with God. You know, God's seated in a big throne, and there's all these elders, 24 different elders there. And John is crying. He goes, I don't understand. There's this scroll here, and nobody can open the seals to the scroll. And the elder goes, No, that's okay. You you're okay, John. Don't worry, you don't have to cry, because the lion of Judah is coming to open the scrolls. Because the lion of Judah has conquered. He is strong, he's powerful, he's going to open it up for us. And um then you go to the very next verse, and it talks about then John turned around and he saw a slain lamb. He saw a lamb who had been killed. And that lion of Judah is actually this lamb, sheep, who's been killed. Now, wait a minute. So let's talk about what the church does. What some people do is they say, uh, because the lamb, this idea that Jesus, that um the son of God, right, is a lamb, is mild, is soft, is um uh somebody something that you don't have to be afraid of, is comforting. You can be comforted uh like the lamb. And kind of like we are sheep, we are comforted by God, we're fed by God, right? And you know, then we have this very comfortable feeling about Jesus as a lamb. Well, some church people will say, but that's the Jesus before. But when Jesus comes back, when Jesus comes back, Jesus is coming back as a violent, violent lion to to um uh to make war and to um punish all those people that don't believe in him. Have you heard that before? I bet you a lot of you have. Don't believe it. That's not what it says. It is absolutely not what it says. Now, yes, the book of Revelation is full of violent images. There's a lot of it, almost like a video game, you know. But this image about coming back as a lion is not true. There is the image of the lion, it happens just once in chapter 5, verse 5. But that image is of violence, of Judah, which was the dominant, which was the tribe of Israel that conquered all the others, that survived after all the others. And immediately, immediately, the next verse and the uh several verses after that, and then throughout the rest of Revelation, Jesus is portrayed as the lamb, but not just the lamb, as the slain lamb, the lamb that had been killed. And the difference isn't that a different image? You have the violent, powerful image, very male, masculine, and you have the lamb who's been slain, who is very feminine and very soft. And so when I've talked to people about this, I go, why is it that, or you know, what should we think about Jesus, the image? And the image is a little bit of both, because there are parts of Revelation where Jesus acts powerfully, and we have this image of Jesus on a on a white horse a little bit later, too, with a you know, with a tongue that looks like a sword, things like that. But the purpose is again, it's comfort. Think about this when you look back, when we talk about those people that first read this book, they go, they would think, oh, well, you know, the sword, the the lion, the um the violence of that, and immediately turning into the lamb or being seen as a lamb, they go, that meant a lot to them. That meant this violence that we have today, this terrible world that we live in today, will become comforting and become new. And that the warfare, the disease, and all of that will go away and we'll have a new comfort. The other thing that um that this scholar taught me too about this is that the um, but you go, well, wait a minute. A lot of the revelation, even after this, is still terrifying and still really scary. Um, what do you mean, the lamb being that of comfort? Well, and and the the scholar said, don't let John off the hook, the guy who wrote this, because you always have to remember that John was in a different culture than ours and talked differently than we do. Some of the jokes that John tells, that's why most of us, when we read it, we don't laugh out loud on some of it because we don't use, we don't have the same kind of humor that John had. We don't see things quite the way John did. And John also was living in a culture that was violent, more violent than what we have today, a lot more violent, a lot scarier than what we have today. So she goes, you have to understand that um you don't want to let John off the hook. You don't want to let the book of Revelation off the hook because it's not all wonderful and you know, beautiful and all of that. But what you can take from it is useful and is comforting. So this is important for all of the Bible. Um, if you've listened to a couple of other things that I've done, I I always talk about this is that the Bible is two things. It's is it the word of God? Is it what God tells us? Yes, but it's not in the way you think. It's not like a rule book, a command where you have this book that says you must do this, you can't do this, um, the the past was this, the future is this. It it's not like that, and it never was like that. It's stories. And those stories can help us. When they're helpful to us, we can read them, use them, uh um, share them. When they're not helpful, helpful to us, we can put them aside. Never let anybody tell you that you have to believe the Bible the way I believe it, and you cannot um, you must take it the way I tell you, and there's only one story in the Bible. That's a lie. There are many stories in the Bible, and yes, you can use the Bible for what you need it to be in this time to help you understand the character of God. How can God help you? How can God help us as a people, as a nation? So today, with war and with worry, with all the politics that we have, more people could, if they read Revelation with an open mind in this way, could look and be helped by it. Our society could be helped by it. I really do believe that. That's one of the reasons why I'm a pastor, because I want to help people to see it in a different way. So I hope that that's what you can get from this. Now, I will mention and I'll talk about parts of Revelation uh in in future episodes. And I hope you can listen to those. I hope you subscribe and and listen to those, because um there are so many little pieces of it that are really pretty cool uh and pretty good to understand. Um, like I mentioned about the lion and the lamb, that is so important. It's it's one of the most important images in Revelation, but also in all of Christianity, and you can see how it's not used the right way, uh, that it's not used to help people. It can be. So that's what I hope you will do with it too. And I hope that this will be helpful to you in that way. So uh thank you so much for listening, and uh, I appreciate you doing that. I appreciate you subscribing, commenting, uh getting in touch with me. I really like that. Uh and God bless you.