The Real Cost of Affordable Housing in the Rockies | Ep 2

Can affordable housing actually work in a Colorado mountain town, or is it financially impossible without major tradeoffs?

In this episode of Real Estate in the Rockies, Ashley Kappel and Jessica Chariton sit down with Paul Andrews, developer of The Crossing in Buena Vista, a community designed to be 50% affordable housing.

Paul brings decades of high-level real estate and financial experience to this conversation and shares what it really took to bring this project to life. From infrastructure costs and financing to deed restrictions and community pushback, this episode breaks down the real challenges behind building housing that people can actually afford.

This is not theory. It is a real-world look at what it takes to solve one of the biggest issues facing mountain communities.

In this episode, you will learn:

• What a 50% affordable housing model looks like in Buena Vista
• Why infrastructure and financing are the biggest barriers to affordability
• How grants, partnerships, and timing made this project possible
• What deed restrictions are and how they preserve long-term affordability
• Why smaller homes and creative design are key to lowering costs
• The risks involved, including putting personal finances on the line
• Whether this model can realistically be replicated in other mountain towns

Ashley brings a legal lens to zoning, deed restrictions, and policy considerations. Jessica connects the conversation to real market conditions and what buyers are experiencing on the ground.

Paul shares a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to build a community from the ground up, including the vision, the risk, and why this work matters for the future of Buena Vista and beyond.

Paul Andrews is the developer behind The Crossing in Buena Vista, a community designed to provide a mix of affordable and market-rate housing in a mountain town setting. Originally from England, Paul has an extensive background in finance and real estate, including leadership roles as CFO at Madison Marquette, Vail Resorts Development Company, and EverWest Real Estate Investors.

Over his career, he has completed more than $2 billion in real estate financings and helped grow EverWest into a $5 billion institutional real estate platform. After retiring in 2022, Paul shifted his full focus to The Crossing and other Colorado mountain real estate projects, bringing his experience, capital, and long-term vision to addressing housing challenges in communities like Buena Vista.

Links:
Website: http://www.thecrossingbv.com
Instagram: @thecrossingbv
Facebook: The Crossing BV
LinkedIn: The Crossing BV

Real Estate in the Rockies is the podcast exploring Colorado mountain real estate, housing, land use, development, zoning, community growth, and mountain living in Salida, Buena Vista, Chaffee County, and communities across the Rockies.

Hosted by Colorado real estate attorney Ashley Kappel and local realtor Jessica Chariton, the show brings together developers, community leaders, housing experts, investors, and local voices to break down the conversations shaping mountain towns today.

Whether you’re buying property in Colorado, navigating real estate development, exploring affordable housing challenges, or simply interested in the future of mountain communities, Real Estate in the Rockies delivers real conversations and local insight from the people living and working in these communities every day.

Subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify for new episodes every week.

Connect with Jessica: https://jessicachariton.homesmartpreferredrealty.com/

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Please share this podcast with anyone who is interested in Real Estate development, Community Conversations about living in Colorado Mountain Towns. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Today we interviewed Paul Andrews, who is the creator, developer, founder, capital builder of The Crossing in Venusa, which is a 50% affordable mountain community or neighborhood. Yeah. And one of the most interesting things I learned today after we visited with him was that he put up all of his own collateral, so you know, his retirement, like everything to get this. Literally bet the farm on building this development, getting it for our community. Yeah. So he's all in on V V, and it was really great to hear everything he has to share. We're excited for you to listen. Welcome to Real Estate in the Rockies, a Colorado real estate podcast focused on Mountaintown real estate. I'm Ashley Cappel, a real estate attorney. And I'm Jessica Charitan, local realtor. And we're here to help you understand what's really happening in the Rockies. You're getting both the legal perspective and real-world experience. So you can make smarter, more competent decisions in the Colorado real estate market. Follow real estate in the Rockies so you don't miss an episode. And share it with someone who cares about the future of our non-communities.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Because in the Rockies, real estate isn't just about property, it's about community.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I'm Jessica Cheritan, and we're here with Ashley Capel. And I am really excited to introduce our guest today, Paul Andrews. And thanks for joining us. Thanks for learning that. Yeah, thanks for coming. The Real Estate in the Rockies podcast, we tried to talk about real estate in all facets. And we really wanted to have you on because you have some cool projects going on in UNIBSTA specifically.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

And we're going to talk about that today.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Exciting.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah. Thank you. So we're listeners who haven't heard about it yet. Yeah. Ashley and I have a lot of assumed knowledge we were discussing. We don't want to assume that everybody knows. Sure. What is the crossing? Yeah. And what makes it different from typical mountain town development?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Cool. So the crossing is a new community. It's on the north side of Universal, right inside town. It's located on 16 acres of land that was platted in 1892. So that's one of the things that makes it unique. That is. One of our taglines is that we're respecting the past while we're building our future. And so there is a um respect of where we're coming from. There's a respect for the land. And then there is a large planning and design piece of the community based around new urbanism that enables us to provide homes, hopefully, for everybody in our community of a wide diversity of income levels and a wide diversity of ages. But it's cool. It's a place that built for BV's future, provides a place for everybody who is moving here and will move here. But also provides affordable housing for people who currently live and work here, who would otherwise be priced out of our market or not be able to move back to the place they grew up in.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah. Twice I heard you say year-round housing. Yeah. So can you elaborate on that a little bit? So obviously you saw that as a problem. And that was kind of the rest of my question that I didn't say at the beginning, but you saw year-round people being in the community all year as an issue. Can you tell us more about that?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yeah. So um when I started off, the whole project was just based on a belief in Buna Vesta and the place that it is, the energy that it has, the people who live here, and then having spent some time in the front range, knowing that so many of those people would rather live here than be stuck in, you know, what they're doing down there. Um and uh the reason that so many of those people are not able to do it is fundamentally around housing as as much as jobs, I think. You know, yes, there are some challenges with jobs, yes, there are some major challenges with childcare, but to me the biggest barrier at the time was affordable housing. And so when I took the project on back in 22, 23 as a retirement project, it's a little like that, and it's no longer a retirement project. But it is, you know, it's a passion project. It comes from my heart. It's um my talent and my skills and my history and my relationships that I feel I'm being able to bring to this community in the way that some other people um bring their talents as a therapist or as a lawyer or some other professional. This is my profession that um I'm bringing and expressing in our community. Um so the affordable piece was the obvious challenge to start with. Um I spent time with not only everybody in the community, but people who were running the housing authority, people who were running the housing trust who'd been working on this for a long time. And what we developed between us with some help and a lot of support from the town was a collaboration, joint ventures, working together that enabled all of us together to make it feasible. That's really um, and from a real estate perspective, the affordability piece has to start with capital. And you can't build affordable houses with a normal capital stack where you're borrowing money at 8% from a bank and buying stuff. We were incredibly fortunate that as we started this journey in 23, our governor decided that what he wanted to do in his last four years in office was help address some of the affordability crisis in Colorado. He reallocated a bunch of funds to affordable housing, and we just met, you know, our timing was very fortunate. So we were able to get grants and low-interest loans from the state to put in five million dollars of infrastructure. That's the primary reason why nobody had developed this area because it's in town. You access all of the um amenities and utilities in town. So there's no annexation process, all that infrastructure is accessible, but you know, five million dollars, that's still a huge barrier to building a new community.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

We will go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Oh, I was gonna keep going. I'm I'm thinking a huge barrier to building an affordable community. Yeah, somebody might do it and then charge a million dollars per unit. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, that's the that's the that's where it started from. And so together with the housing trust, um, so we had grants and low-interest loans from reallocated state money that they received from COVID and the infrastructure bill. So it was good timing. At the same point in time, Pump 123, which is a statewide initiative, was just released. And so we were able to um obtain money to do the infrastructure. We were then able to get grants and some good loans from Chaffer to build 24 homes for the housing trust. Yeah, 13 of those are now complete, and the first person is closing on their house next week, which is exciting. Um, but other people are in there renting on a temporary basis, on a rent-to-own basis, and so we have people living in the crossing now, which is really exciting. Um, so that's the housing trust pieces. We were then um continued to push. And last May we were fortunate enough to be awarded what's called Prop 123 equity funds um to build an apartment building. And so we're partnering with the housing authority, they're a part owner of the building that we're building. Um, it's another modular construction project. It's 33 units, they're in the factory right now. That's great. We're breaking ground, we're putting foundations in next month, and so we will have a 33-unit apartment building completed by the end of the year, along with the 14 CHT houses. Um, rents are going to be technically sort of in the 80, 85% AMI range. That translates to 13 to 1,600 bucks a month for rent, which is affordable. And we'll have four units that are much more affordable than that, and some bigger two-unit ones. But so that's 33 apartment units and ultimately 24 full-sale houses for the CHT, which is 57 permanently deed restricted houses for our community. Wow. So that's part of it. We did that first, which is not normally, you know, a lot of people come back.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

With the town, that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

It was a big command, it was a reach, but because of the funding that we were able to receive and the way we build all these relationships together, we we've made it a reality. So a lot of people, you know, but and Bassant affordable housing in a little corner at the end, we really led with that because we knew that's what the community needed.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Well, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah. And then that enables us to continue building out the neighborhood. We now have um 70 home sites that uh our infrastructure was all completed at the end of last year. So we're starting to sell those lots. We are bringing some other builders in. So we have three other builders that are going to start building market rate houses um as the as the spring progresses. But I'm partnering with uh ST Construction, they're a local builder. Um, a couple of guys who were born and raised in BV and have created an awesome construction company. Um we're building uh seven, the first seven market rate houses. We've just given our building permits now. We're poured our first foundation yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Market rate's going to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

So this is the the next piece as you move slowly west. You know, what you'll see in BV at the moment is a market rate house, it's like 1.2 million bucks anywhere in town. Yeah, because you're paying 200 for a lot, you're paying 400 bucks a square foot to build a 2,000 square foot house. Yeah, and then you want to make a 10 or 15 percent profit. So that's just a lot of you know, 1.1, 1.3 million houses going up, which does not fit into our vision of a unique, you know, neighborhood that will on the far west side of the community, we have some big custom home lots. So we'll be selling those lots. People can use our builders, our plans, or bring their own things. You know, those are $1.22 million homes. But the next phase, we've got these really cool designs. So we've got some smaller single family homes, and we're doing car ports instead of full garages, but we've got amazing access to the views in the community. That's the one thing that I should have started with. You know, not only is it um, you know, amazing land that we're respecting, but we've just got amazing uninterrupted views of the collegiate peaks while being inside town. Right. So we've got smaller single-family homes that will be selling for 850 to 900, which is still expensive, but it's a lot more affordable than the 1.2s in town. And then we've designed these condominiums. And so we're gonna be doing some over-under houses and some that are a townhome attached to you know, an over-under condo. So it's complicated because you got to go through a little condominium process. Not everybody fully understands it, but we have the resources and the creativity to go through that. What does that mean? It means that four of the first seven homes will be two-bedroom homes priced from 450 to 550. Great, great. And that that doesn't exist in BV. No, and so you know, you're 900 to 1200 square feet, but that's fine. So you'd need those. Yeah. Yeah. No deed restrictions, no anything like that. So that's going to be four of the first seven homes are going to be in that 450 to 500 range, which is not easy to do. You know, it's taking us six months to get our building permits because what we're doing doesn't necessarily always fit into the existing town code. Right. But you know, we'll all inherit and slowly working our way through. But we're patient.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, who needs who needs retirement anyway, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

You know, you will got too much to give. Yeah, too much fun doing this kind of stuff. And that's, you know, so that's the first market rate houses. I think some of the other builders are gonna be doing something a little more traditional from a size and price point. But then we've got a vision for a whole variety of other homes that we will be building out in um the first phase of the community, which is 120 houses. It's gonna take us three or four years to get that built out. We're not gonna, we're in no rush to do it. It's about doing it right. Yeah. And so that's why we've spent a lot of time and money designing the first houses that we're gonna be delivering. And, you know, if you if you see the houses that we built for the Chafee Housing Trust, I'm I'm really proud of them. They fit in really well into the um environment there. Um we like to think of them as the nicest affordable houses in the state.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

They look great at the moment. Um people moving in. We've got a nice green um park in between the apartments and the CHT houses, and we're in the middle of working through probably changing up the landscaping on that a little bit. You can't just go put a bunch of um thirsty grass down. No, yeah, not this year. So, you know, we're modifying some of our landscaping plans, but uh in whatever form it finally takes, that park's gonna be in this summer. And so it's a really exciting time for us. It was a year and a half of entitlement, a year and a half putting infrastructure in, and now suddenly we have streets and sidewalks, we have people living there, and we're gonna have all these newly designed houses um coming out of the ground this spring, ready for everybody to come and visit.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

So exciting.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

So, talk to me a little bit about the deed restrictions. Because I know that there are there are some people that say and that maybe you can solve this housing crisis with just market rate development. Yeah. There are other people that say, no, you need to deed restrict those houses or those apartments, or you know, to to make sure that the the affordability is preserved long term.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

So I think we should also say AMI. Acronym is a median income. Yeah. And then we said CHT a couple times too, Chafee Housing Authority. Sous-titres par Jérémy Diaz. Sorry, and then Chafee Housing Authority is CHA.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

That's it. Chaffee Housing Trust sells houses, Chafee Housing Authority, and then that's a bunch of policy stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, so we'll have a um acronym list in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, that'll be good.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah, so average or area median income at the moment in Chafee County is $72,000. It's probably going up to closer to eight.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah, but it is bigger, it's a larger sum for if there's more than one in the family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah, and so deed restriction versus market forces. Um I know, you know, we're delivering houses. The people who are moving into the CHD houses are paying $280 for a one-bedroom house, $350 for a two and uh $400 for a three-bedroom house. And those um you can't build a house for that much money, let alone sell it with any type of um profit margin in there at all. So, in order to hit those affordability goals, yeah, you have to have some kind of subsidized financing, not just for the infrastructure, but you know, we got um 25 to 30 percent of the cost of the CHT houses came in the form of grants that we were able to get working through Reed and the Chafee Housing Trust, which made them affordable. Yeah. And so without that, you're building six or seven hundred thousand dollar small houses, which aren't affordable. Right. The con of that is that when you get the money from the state to make them affordable, we're installing deed restrictions on there. So the way it worked out, um, the more money you get, the lower the AMI restrictions go. The houses that are being sold through the housing trust um are available to anybody making up to 100% of average median income. Some other deed restrictions are 120. Um, what I like about that is that if someone sells that house, they get to keep some of the appreciation, but that $350,000 house will be sold for $380,000 next time. So it always is affordable. Right. What happened at the farm where everybody had great intentions and was, you know, really trying to solve that problem. Um the first people got in cheap and then they flipped it and suddenly it's six hundred thousand dollars. So that pro that um preserves the affordability. The cut of that is someone making a hundred percent of average median income is just about able to buy the house. You know, you do the math, and if you're trying to borrow 95 to 98 percent of that money, you've got to be making 65 to 68. So it's a very narrow window of people that are qualifying.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, I'm just thinking of a specific example of people I'm working with right now to sell their house that are moving out of Chafee County, even though they would be like 120% of AMI. Right. But because they've had children now since they moved to Chafee County, yeah, child care costs have made it. Oh, yeah, child care is a huge issue. Yeah, they can't afford their mortgage and child care with both of them working. Correct. So, like they would be a good example of where 120% AMI is a good thing because then they could stay put and not be moving to the state.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, Rude and I have this conversation about where's the right place to set AMIs and we need flexibility there, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I think you do.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

There's all different kinds of family variety probably if it's one run from the state and they, you know, you get 140% AMI restriction. The more you get, the more restrictions they put on it.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

In reflection, uh, I think, you know, if you can deed restrict full-sale housing, 120, 140% AMI, I think that's good.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, that's there's a there's a huge need for that.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

That feels like a need that we're not yet addressing. Yeah, but market great houses, no deed restriction, $500,000 price point. I think that's that's meeting that need. We'll talk about childcare later, but um that's that's another rental plans. That's on my list. No, but we'll we we've got some more thoughts on that. So that's then the rental piece, um it just you it's so hard to do quality housing without putting without getting some subsidies. Yeah, you know, we've got all in on a twelve million dollar apartment project. Um, eight million dollars of that is subsidized money in one form or another. That means that our total average cost of capital on the building is less than two percent. That enables us to deliver $1,300 to $1,600 rents. Yeah. Um, without that, yeah, you see. And to keep it that way, is that to permanently keep it that way. Absolutely, without having to increase rents. We were fortunate because we were able to get those funds. Middle and department, carbonate, you know, did not get a great raft from the trustees and some other people in the community because a number of those units had to be priced effectively at market rate. It's it's simple math. They have to borrow 40% of their capital stack from uh a market rate lender at 8%. You know, it it's not nobody's making excess profits here. It's purely just a math equation of where here's what it costs to service the debt and the equity that you put in place to build your building. That translates to rents. We were able to access some really favorable capital that enables us to keep the rents down. So yeah, hey, would it be great if we didn't have to go and income qualify people to move into the building? Sure. But I'd rather income qualified people and be able to charge rents that people can afford than you know, build a half-empty building where everything's renting at 22 to 2500 bucks.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Right. And we're losing half our town. Right. Because they're going somewhere else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yeah. We were, you know, it's people who live here. It's it's people who are trying to move here, you know. They they come and they get a job and then they look around and they they leave a month later because they realize it's not here.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Um, so that said, there has been a fair amount of supply coming in the last couple of years. So you're seeing more rental projects, definitely down here in Slider. I know there's a long more coming online. Yeah, BV is normal as a couple of years behind, but you know, between um some of the other projects we now have and this, we're we're meeting a lot of that rental demand.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

So it's huge. Yeah. Okay, tell us about a moment in the project or like I mean, this is do you have a story or something you can share about a person or that you know you've it's really why you're doing this, or kind of anything that or or maybe back to your humble beginnings in England.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Right. Or did everyone say something to you and you thought, well, that made it all worth it? Because this is awesome. Yeah, taking a lot of time energy.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What really makes it worth it is the team that I'm working with. Yeah, yeah. And uh I really feel a part of the community, and I'm just out there every day getting to meet with so many great people. And I I just I really resonate with and respect everybody, nearly everybody, um, up here in BV. You know, people have come here for a reason. They love the freedom. Maybe they're bike riders, maybe they're hikers, maybe they're paddlers, but it takes an effort to be here. You know, housing's not cheap, childcare's not easy, jobs aren't growing on trees, and so you need to have to make an effort to be here. And that's a special sort of person. They're a little more entrepreneurial, they're a little more confident, and um, I just love being part of that community where people are having brand new ideas and they're bringing their talent and their treasure to this community to and they're crowned off it. Yeah, you know, that's what's so special. And I get to be one of those people.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

So that's what I was thinking too. You said they're entrepreneurial, they're they want some freedom, but then they want community. They do and and that and they're bringing different gifts and talents and contributing in really important ways, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:23

And in very unique ways, yeah, right? It's like, hey, I you know, I didn't get a you know, a new IO packet with full health care and on-site child care in the mail, you know, that's that's an I-25, but you come here and you make it work. And most people, you know, two jobs, three jobs, however, you make it balance. And so I I love being part of that community. Um, is there one particular person? Well, linear, you know, from Reed and everybody right out front to everybody who's I'm now working with to build what we're building. Um it's and I'm learning every day. I did not know, I did not know what I was doing when I started this project. Um, I just had a fundamental belief in BV and the community and knew that I had skills and experiences and relationships that I could bring to solve problems. And yeah, luckily I was able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

And they found the right people to build them. And I live here.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Yeah. You know, there are two or three other projects that started up around the same time or before ours, and they're still empty fields because um it's hard. Yeah, and it's not people say, oh, it's political or the trustees this or the council that. If I wear it to put it down, on the bullish accent, then you'll be able to get away with a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

This will work over uh Salina planning and zoning. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah, the first couple of times you go by, they're like, who's this guy? And then they sort of work out that if they sit down and talk to me, we'll come up with a good answer and I'll I'll stop bugging them.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

I won't make you name names, but you did say with one or two exceptions, so the skeptics. Yeah. What what have the skeptics said?

SPEAKER_00 28:57

And and would it be like all these people who you know want to close the doors after they've made it in, and it was much nicer with the deer and the pinion pines than the houses. And hey, I get it. I had that conversation with myself um hard for a month before I bought that land. You know, I've been coming up here and hiking and biking ever since I made it permanently to Colorado in 2008, and that fundamental respect for the land and their ecology, you know, rings truer to me than being a developer. I was never a developer. Um what hinted for me is someone who's always gonna do it. You you don't have 16 acres in the town of BV that's gonna sit there under the legs uh great location. I I fundamentally believe I can do this, there's an arrogance in there, but I'll do it more mindfully and thoughtfully and more community-centric than some large front-range developer who's just gonna come in and maximize value.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, and so that's value to themselves. Value to themselves, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah, I've got a whole there's a different value set here to what we're building in the community. So I forget the question, but that's why I do.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

No, you answered it perfectly. And I I would say the majority of skeptics in our county that that is the issue, is they don't want high density, they don't want not in my view blocked, they but they got they got here too somehow. And how do we have sustainable growth in a way that works for us as a community and the things we value?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

That's right. So we're honoring the past, you're building the future. That's that intention every day that we work through. You know, were there specific challenges with, you know, you have to be patient going through the process.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

You're dealing with amazing.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

And yeah, you're dealing, you know, with the town's outsourced engineer who has 10 other projects and takes six weeks to turn your comments around. You gotta deal with the sanitation district and the water district and the utility companies, and they will move at their own speed. Right. And getting $19 million of financing closed with state administration. It's an act of Zen. Yeah. But at the end of the day, um it's easier than dealing with, you know, a bunch of lawyers on Wolf Street who, you know, want to beat the hell out of you in the loan docs. So it we got done. It's easy. You know, looking back on it, it was all worth it.

unknown 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

But you had to put your your own financial well-being on the line, right? Oh, every single thing. Oh my goodness. Is that my wife out there listening?

SPEAKER_00 31:46

What do we do? Did you how to be a divander before you invested your entire uh retirement package and land that didn't have any water allocated to it?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Or did I tell you if you didn't have water allocated to it? That's gonna be a question I wanted to talk about. Yeah, I mean, I'm still married.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

So we made it through. Yeah. No, every we bet um the farm. You bet the farm on B V. Yeah. And that's another motivating factor for walking up and down Main Street every day to make sure that it gets done and that it gets done right.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a huge thing though. I mean, people should really recognize that you know, you put you're putting all your eggs into this basket. And and and for such a good cause, and so many, you know, people are gonna benefit from this from the community.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

So I got my first paycheck last month when we sold some lots. So there you go.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

It was only four years of working for free.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Let alone all those loan guarantees to collegiate means. But that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

It's gonna work out. Maybe they'll let you live in one of the affordable units. They might do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Actually, based on the last couple of years, I totally income qualified money. So there's two different plans in my owls because of the infrastructure somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

So if the crossing succeeds the way that you're hoping it will, let's talk about positive projection instead of what in in five or ten years, what do you see that looking like for BB or what what is that going to do for the town of Bina Vista?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Perfect. Yeah. So the first part is completed what we've burned off today, which is 120 home sites. Yeah. Um, by the end of this year, we'll be more than half built out there with the first round of affordable apartments, and probably the first 12 to 15 houses between us and the other. So there's another 50 or 60 houses, including another 10 deed restricted houses, including a habitat for humidity triplex. That will happen in the next three to four years. So that's sort of teed up and ready to go. Now the infrastructure's in. In the last three months, we've started turning our attention to what we call phase two. So the first three blocks is eight acres. We closed on the second eight acres over the last six months. And our vision for phase two is more based around a commercial neighborhood town center. Love that. And the other somewhat piece of luck, but luck that I created by being consistent with various relationships. Uh, City Market's gonna be moving right adjacent to the south end of our project. They're finishing up permits now. So by the middle of 27, hopefully we'll have a 60,000 square foot state-of-the-art new grocery store, which we will need. That is so huge. And that will create um a new entrance into the community. Okay. So right next to um where the city market is, we're building about 30 to 40,000 square feet of commercial space. So don't rebure, a restaurant, a coffee shop, um, but also a cluster of health-related businesses um that we need, hopefully, some much nicer office space, some work-live space. Right. And so that would be a walkable town center that will serve all of the residents that are moving in here now, plus other parts of the community. We're sort of calling it um, you know, it'd be a standalone place, North BV. Um, yeah, the other parts of phase two include some rental, long-term hotel type space. We're still trying to design it, but a really welcoming place for people that are coming here on a shorter term basis or for a couple of months to try out the community at different seasons that'll be right next to that commercial center, and then some denser, smaller, uh clustered housing units. So no deed restrictions to your earlier point. It's all market rate. But what we're seeing is smaller homes at the right price. It is a huge missing element. Yeah. So instead of just putting some condos on single lots, we've got a much more thoughtful plan for phase two. You know, 800 to 1200 square foot homes, but 450 to 600. I think there's a walkable amenity. You've got your town center right there, you've got your meeting space, you've got your grocery store, we got a bank park, we got a community park, we've got a trail all around the community. And all of the houses are designed with outdoor living spaces and decks that access the views. So, you know, you may not have a five-acre lot up on the side of the mountain, but your own personal outdoor space as well as the community spaces, have access to the, you know, some of the greatest views in the country. Yeah. It's so that's what we're that's phase two. So that's the future. Wow. So yeah, Bueno is good. And it's also short for Buna North. So somewhere in there. We're still working on names and taglines and fun stuff like that. Yeah. Walkable town center, with and a you know, a commun uh uh a commercial core, too. You know, we talk about jobs. There's not great places for businesses to locate themselves. There's some pretty buildings, but a lot of them are older, they're more run down. Right. So super functional. And to be, you know, thoughtful on how we bring some technology into that community because we've got a that's you know, we've got a clean slate to start off with. So how do you deliver mail? How do you take care of trash? Is there, you know, how do we bring in solar and batteries in a really thoughtful way? In the same way that we've got enough scale to build some condos that the code didn't initially think it could uh accommodate when you're building something that's gonna be 16% additional housing to the town of BV, we can get creative and thoughtful about what that community can be. Yeah. So everybody who's been here before me will not um be too mad that we cut down some pinning pines. Um and everybody that's coming in here will have a welcoming place that's affordable and they're able to live. Yeah, but you know, we talked about full-time year-round. Will there be some second homes? Yeah. Um, it's just uh it's the nature of the beast, but hopefully I see a lot of those people move in here full-time over time.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

There you go. Yeah, that's like you got a lot of full-day weekers at the moment, right? They're forced to be in the office for three days a week, but they escape up here on Thursday night and do Mondays on Zoom and go back and fight the traffic for three days. So you know, see a fair. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, everybody's welcome.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

So talk just a minute about the water, because I think that's a very important issue in B and anywhere, really. I mean, it seems like we've heard that Celida is a little bit more was a little bit more forward thinking in terms of the water situation. And tell tell us a little bit about what happened.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Yeah, so if you're back in time, like three or four months after we bought the land and bat the farm, someone someone in the town counted up how much water they had left and said, Oh, we've got 350 SFEs left. And we probably shouldn't give out anymore. Right. That was that was one of the uh tough weeks. Um that interest rates going from 3% to 8%. Um luckily the town was very thoughtful. They came up with a policy um to allocate those in a mindful way that enabled us to get more than enough water for phase one because there were allocations to affordable housing and to um apartments, so that was good. Um since then, they've been working hard to build their water portfolio. Um, you know, they've acquired some additional water rights, which um not all of them are fully through the approval process, but they've also opened up their mind a little bit to buy a portfolio of augmentation rights from the Arkansas, so it's not just relying on what comes down Cottonwood Creek every day. So we have less concerns um about having enough water to um make phase two viable. That said, we're looking at all options, you know. Right. Is that us directly acquiring water from Upper Rock? Does it make sense to work directly with the town? Does it make sense for us to put a well onto phase two? It's you know, so luckily I'm working with much smarter people now than it was just it was just me and my wife when we started off. And so we've got a great team that's that's looking at all of those options. And I even learned a few things on phase one too. So that's there. That said, it's gonna be uh interesting summer. All of the plans that everybody has laid and the contingency plans, they're all gonna be tested to the max here. And so I think as we progress through our PUD and entitlement process, the water's gonna become uh a bigger question because there's gonna be some scarcity this summer. And right, hopefully this is one off. And um people this morning were telling me some El Nino stuff, and we're gonna keep kicking in for we're gonna have a good winner next year.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Good. I'm counting on it too. I know. Um man, I still want to ask along on the hard one. Let's ask the last question. Yeah, because I this I'm like curious about this. So this 50% affordable model, do you think it can be replicated in other mountain towns? All the Colorado Mountain towns have affordability issues, and we're hoping to reach other Colorado Mountain towns with our podcast. What needs to change for this to be replicated? Policy, um, community buy-in. You talked a little bit about the the quality of the yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

From my perspective, yeah, I don't think it's replicable today. I I think I hit the crest of the wave. Um because it goes back to capital.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

What you're selling it for or what what you're renting it for is based purely on what you're paying on your capital stack. And um the money that I got for the infrastructure, yeah, you know, there's no more COVID money and infrastructure money to go around. The $300 million a year of Prop 123 money, which is where we got our apartment money, yeah, got cut back to 200 in the first round of budget cuts with a billion dollar shortfall in the state budget. If it hasn't already, I bet that goes to 100 million. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

And makes it more competitive.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Big developers are saying, oh my God, if a you know, a guy who doesn't know what he's doing can do this and B V. So there's a lot more people out there looking for that money. And you know, those funds aren't available anymore. So it's it's gonna be tough because I think some of the jurisdiction. Looking at inclusionary housing and making this a requirement. Yeah. But without dev funding, how do you do it? How do you make work? There's no way we could replicate what we've just done today. So it's a miracle. We go lucky.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We go lucky. Wow. That's great. Anything else you want to say before we wrap up? We have oh we have the rapid fire.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Rapid fire Emmy. Yeah. I love questions and stuff. We talked about this, so land with a view or walkable to downtown, if you had to pick for yourself. For yourself. But you you're telling us you can have both of them already.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

If you can't walk to downtown, you create your own downtown. That's what we do. Yeah, create the downtown by your view. Okay. First job you ever had? Um cleaning toilets and cleaning uh machinery and a joinery shop at eight years old where my mother worked.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Wow. Yeah. What work would you be doing? I think we're the answer if money were no object.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

I'd be doing exactly what I'm doing right now. Yeah. I thought I'd quit and just go ride my bike, but this is way more fun.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

That's awesome. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Doing exactly what I'm going to be doing, exactly where I'm meant to be doing.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Great. And what's your personal motto? Personal motto? Or mantra or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah, slow down tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

I mean relate to that. Okay. We're on the same page. Um, a favorite book or a book that you're reading right now.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Come back to that one. Okay. I'm bad with names. I've forgotten that. Yeah, that's a that's a whole podcast. My book, my book. Your book is asked. Yeah, okay. Come pick one.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Uh and what does home mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 46:07

That's a great one. Thank you. Um yeah, in spite of all of this stuff we're building, yeah. Home is um yeah, hanging out in the evening, um with my wife going to bed way too early. Um is having my boys come to visit with their girlfriends and wives now, yeah. And um being in our space in BV. That's what home is. Yeah, it's family.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Now, how can people learn more about the crossing and find you on social media or online?

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Um, they can talk to Anna. No, they can start off at www.thecrossingbv dot com. Okay. And then in your show notes, you've also got uh Instagram and Facebook and all of that stuff. Okay. Yeah. Well, they can stop by the A Z real estate office and BV. Talk to Hillary, even better. Yeah, just call me and come get a tour. I do every day I'm I'm out there and work around with people. And seeing it. Here's the views. Yeah. It's the views. We'll do another one out there one day.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Awesome. Right? Yeah, we'll do a podcast out there one day. That'd be fun. That would be fun. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Thanks for wearing the hats for the hats and all of the event for the community and everything. Thanks for betting the farm.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

This episode is sponsored by Heart of the Rockies Home at Home Park Preferred Realty. We do real estate with Heart in the Heart of the Rockies and serve Colorado Mountain communities, working to help clients navigate real estate in these unique towns. Whether you're buying, selling, or exploring your options, our goal is to make every step feel informed, supported, and straightforward.