Can Short-Term Rentals and Affordability in Mountain Towns Coexist? | Ep 7

Short-term rentals have become one of the most emotional and controversial conversations happening across Colorado mountain towns.

But what happens when the conversation moves beyond politics and focuses on people, community, balance, and long-term planning?

In this episode of Real Estate in the Rockies, Ashley Kappel and Jessica Chariton sit down with Lisa and Summer, the founders of Rainbow Rentals, a Salida-based short-term rental management company focused on thoughtful hospitality, community integration, and helping guests truly “Live Like a Local.”

Together, they explore:

• short-term rental policies
• workforce housing
• tourism economics
• mountain town affordability
• community planning
• second home ownership
• flexible property use
• proactive vs reactive policy
• and the future of Colorado mountain communities

Lisa and Summer bring a nuanced perspective to a conversation that often becomes polarized. As both community members and property managers, they discuss the real challenges mountain towns face while also exploring how thoughtful short-term rental management can support local economies, homeowners, and tourism in responsible ways.

This episode also dives into:

• how changing regulations impact homeowners
• why flexibility matters for mountain town investors
• the hidden realities of managing short-term rentals
• balancing tourism with community preservation
• and how mountain towns can avoid becoming “empty shells” of themselves

Most importantly, this conversation highlights the importance of proactive planning and creating policies that support both residents and the long-term sustainability of Colorado mountain towns.

In This Episode

• Why mountain towns need proactive housing strategies
• The difference between reactive and intentional policy
• How short-term rentals impact local economies
• Why flexibility matters for second homeowners
• The hidden work behind property management
• What guests really want from mountain town travel
• Why “Live Like a Local” matters
• How tourism supports small business ecosystems
• The tension between affordability and preservation
• Creative housing solutions for local residents

Memorable Quotes

“We need to decide what we want to be in 20 years.”

“Growth becomes less controversial when people understand the plan.”

“We’re trying to showcase the special sauce of Salida.”

“It’s not about penalizing outsiders. It’s about proactively helping residents.”

Guest Info

Rainbow Rentals
 Website: rainbowrental.net
Instagram: @staywithrainbowrentals

Real Estate in the Rockies is the podcast exploring Colorado mountain real estate, housing, land use, development, zoning, community growth, and mountain living in Salida, Buena Vista, Chaffee County, and communities across the Rockies.

Hosted by Colorado real estate attorney Ashley Kappel and local realtor Jessica Chariton, the show brings together developers, community leaders, housing experts, investors, and local voices to break down the conversations shaping mountain towns today.

Whether you’re buying property in Colorado, navigating real estate development, exploring affordable housing challenges, or simply interested in the future of mountain communities, Real Estate in the Rockies delivers real conversations and local insight from the people living and working in these communities every day.

Subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify for new episodes every week.

Connect with Jessica: https://jessicachariton.homesmartpreferredrealty.com/

Connect with Ashley: https://www.collegiatepeakslawandmediation.com/

Please share this podcast with anyone who is interested in Real Estate development, Community Conversations about living in Colorado Mountain Towns. 

Transcript

0:00

What happens when a mountain town tries to balance tourism, affordability, second homes, and community character all at the same time? I'm Ashley Kappel with my co-host Jessica Sheridan. Welcome to Real Estate in the Rockies. Today we sat down with Lisa Runkel and Summer Anderson of Rainbow Rentals and Salida for a thoughtful conversation about short-term rentals, property management, local policy, and what it means to build a business in a community you deeply care about. We're excited to share this conversation with you. Welcome to Real Estate in the Rockies, a Colorado real estate podcast focused on Mountaintown real estate. I'm Ashley Cappell, real estate attorney. And I'm Jessica Charitan, local realtor. And we're here to help you understand what's really happening in the Rockies. You're getting both the legal perspective and real-world experience so you can make smarter, more confident decisions in the Colorado real estate market. Follow real estate in the Rockies so you don't miss an episode. And share it with someone who cares about the future of our mountain communities. Because in the Rockies, real estate isn't just about property, it's about community. Hi, I'm Jessica Cheritan, and we're here with Real Estate in the Rockies Podcast and my co-host, Asha Capel. Today we have some amazing guests. We have Lisa Runkel and Summer Anderson who own Rainbow Rentals, and they specialize in short-term mountain town rentals. So we're going to be having a fun conversation with them about their business and all things short-term rental, which I think is a hot topic in our area. Yeah, thanks for having us. Thanks for coming. Take us back to the start of the business. Like what was the idea behind this? What made you look at each other and say, let's start a short-term rental company or property management company, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. No, that this is a fun story. And actually, today is our one-year anniversary. Oh, yeah. So how about the 20th? Yeah. Okay. When we found the paperwork. But prior to that, um, gosh, probably January or February of last year. Um, Summer and I had gone to a yoga class and decided to grab a margarita, the bic. And I was sharing with her, I had just found out we had bought a condo here in 2021 and had applied for a short-term license at that time, and then had been put on a wait list. And so fast forward four years later, uh, we find out that we get the short-term permit. And Summer and her family had been managing short-term rentals on the front range. So I just mentioned in passing how excited I was about this. And she immediately said, Oh, I want to manage it. Let me manage it. Um, I was like, No, I want to manage it. I've been wanting to do this. And so I just kind of let it go. And uh, month or so later, we went to the joyful journey hot spring. Uh we love it here. We love it here. And she basically like pushed me on the drag down there, like, hey, what if we just started uh a short-term property management company that focused on to start with Celida um and kind of you know bring everything that both of us want to do to the community. And I can never say no to summer. Which I I know I'm fully aware of. So it was just an immediate yes. And I don't think um either of us quite knew what that meant at the time, but we knew that we both had a passion and an interest in this and that we loved this community and that we wanted to bring, you know, what we'd seen in some other places to to try here for both ourselves and and then you know our owners too. So um, and it's just not a glass, but a year of just a lot of fun and a lot of growth um and a lot of learnings. So she said that you pitched her. It was this pitch. You know, it's funny when you tell the story because I like get a little bit sweaty because I remember I was like nervous. I mean, we were friends, but we're not like not like we are now. I mean, we knew each other, but I remember I was like, uh, it must be like how a boy feels asking a girl on a date. And I like prepped my husband, I talked to my husband about it. Like, did I because I I kind of knew probably at that point that you wouldn't say no. But I'm sure nervous. So I was like, you know, we've talked about what this could look like, and do I have the bandwidth to do this? And like I remember the whole of thought about it, and so I was like nervous to ask you, you know. So he's got a lot going on too. So I do, I do remember that. Yeah, that's funny. Well, and I wasn't around for the total inception of the business, but a little bit, yeah. We had conversations, and I just remember feeling excited that there was going to be an an option of what you wanted to provide because our area is a short-term rental area, and they need to be managed well for it to work for the entire community. Yeah. So not just for the owners, not just for the renters, but like the neighbors, yeah, city council and all of the above. So that was was one of the reasons for the idea is that just coming into this community, and you know, Lisa and I are fairly new to the area. Um, been here uh three and a half, whatever, three and a half, four years. Um, and so when I got here, I had been, you know, managing front front range short-term rentals. And I got here and I saw that there was a huge gap in what I have to provide on the front range to what I was seeing in the marketing and the communications and all of that for our short-term rentals in this town. But it's kind of the same client who is renting a front range property or a mountain town property. It's the same level of education and the same um tech savviness. They want to see um perfection in when they're looking online and they want to be spoken to in love and care and excitement. And um, there was there was a need, and that's really exciting to bring what I was doing and here and then incorporate Lisa and all her strengths into it. So, yeah, how did you all divvy it up to where do you what do you focus on? Gosh, I mean we're working on it. Yeah, I feel like you know, first year of a business, we're both kind of doing everything, but summer's been really great, I would say, kind of on the back-end side. She had experience with property management software. She saw really quickly that what she had been using wouldn't fit with an owner model, right? So she'd been using the software as an owner. And so we upgraded that almost immediately. And she's been managing kind of all of that. I have a background in just kind of relationship management. And so I was really excited. And I had had um long-term rental properties, investment properties for about 15 years. So just felt like the people and the relationship side of it. And in this case, that's a lot of the owners and cultivating those relationships and then having the conversations just about, you know, getting driving business to us has kind of been my lane. And then we're just both weaving in and out of each other's lanes. Yeah. You know, as all business, as small business owners do. Sure. Um, and then yeah, more recently we've grown into, you know, being able to bring on someone who's specializing in communications and someone else who's taking on uh property operations for us so that we can, you know, slowly but surely get to a little more higher level um in thinking about you know strategy and community relationships and policy and kind of all of those bigger things that we should be involved in too. Yeah. Definitely like a huge conversation constantly going on around all of that. Yeah. Definitely, definitely. Yeah. So how has speaking of that larger conversation, how has running this business changed how you think about real estate investing or ownership in our mountain towns? Oh, maybe you should speak to that because you have that. Yeah. I think you know, I'm an an investor in this mountain town. It's how we, you know, kind of started here. And I think, you know, we bought the property that we did because we were we envisioned it as a short-term rental and and we didn't get the permit. And so we had to shift really quickly and kind of recalibrate our vision for that property. In our case, we still wanted to use it. Um, and so we ended up, you know, using a more midterm model. And then once we did move to the community and moved into another home, and we went to long-term. And so I think for me, the big lesson has been just um, you know, being flexible with your expectations when you're either looking at a property or you've already purchased a property. Yeah. But you know, I've we've been owners here for five years, and there's just been a lot of change. There's been an updated land use code, and there's been all sorts of different policy changes at the city level. Moratoriums on short-term rental. You know, different conversations about who can have a permit. And so I just think, you know, my biggest lesson as an investor is just again being flexible and and having conversations. I mean, that's been the best part is talking to real estate agents, talking to other investors, like talking to others in the community about what has worked for them or what's working for them in the moment, maybe. Um and I I think, you know, I hadn't had that experience in other communities where, you know, we had bought a house and we knew exactly what the rules were, we know exactly what the conditions were and they weren't as rapidly changing. So I think that flexibility is the biggest lesson for me. It's a really, really good one. And I see that with a lot of our owners too. Um, a lot of our clients that are coming to us are in that moment where something's changed, whether it's a family dynamic, an ownership dynamic, a property use dynamic, a code dynamic. Like something's changed is is how most owners are coming to us. And then we're trying to find what is that. Navigate that with them is that's the solution. And keep the value in the property absolutely so that they're not losing money somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. So you're working with owners, and I imagine that there's maybe a gap in terms of expectations and reality. And how do you navigate that with them and have those conversations to you know talk about the how the property will perform and you know, things like that. Yeah, I think um sometimes there's a gap, but I I think we toot our own horn. I think we do a really good job um when we find out that goal of the owner, meeting them where they're at. So that's the first step. Sure. Um, you know, and we have ways of giving financial projections and where we think this property is gonna go. We obviously know our model really well, as meaning like what we can do with the property, how we could come in and um stage it properly and set it up with supplies and market it well and do our whole thing. Um, but you know, just get telling, you know, meeting them where they're at with their um goals and deciding if this is the right, like you said, the right model. Um, and sometimes it doesn't work. We had a client just recently, we would still if you're out there, we'd still love to work with you. Um we've been having conversations with them for a couple weeks because they something has changed. They had a Crestabute home as a second home and they used it a ton, and now their kids are older and doing sports and they're not able to use it as much. If they sell it, it's not really gonna benefit them very well. So they bought it in a really high market in our market or an electronic. Yeah, and so um, they're just that something's changed. And so they came to us, you know, saying, can we short-term rent this? Does this make sense? And we gave them projections as best we could. And when they looked at their numbers, the short-term rental um model was not going to cover their expenses, really high interest rate, high mortgage, and all this stuff. So it's pretty disappointing, but we're not gonna push and take that on. We're not gonna make up numbers, we're not gonna help, you know, put the owner in another situation where they have to make another change. So sometimes those conversations are hard to find hard to have and and sad, but at the same time we do our best to mitigate that before we run into an issue with you know, mostly engaging them in a short-term rental model if it doesn't fit. It really is not for everybody. Yeah, yeah, and not for every property. Yeah, true. I'm thinking of the reverse of that. And I had a client that wanted to sell recently because they had family situation shifting, and they I sent them to you all thinking, like, well, it's not a good time for you to sell. You're not gonna you're gonna lose money, maybe even on this sale. And so, how did that go? I love that. That's what I love agents knowing what we do as well, because we're like another outlet, and I have so much respect for you doing that because you could have just sold the house and taken the commission, and then that four family could have just walked away with less money. But I don't think they really wanted to lose the house. Like, like they they saw a lot of value in the property, just but not right now. It wasn't like yeah, and they had stopped using it as much because they're starting to have kids, all these things, and so um, that was really wonderful of you to choose to send them to us. Yeah, I think that's really neat, but it just shows how you serve your customer. Thank you. Yeah, and I think there's other agents that do have that in mind for their clients as well. And this is just a changing market, it's it's hard as an agent to be listing and selling these homes. And so that's been a really fun story because we did um help them get their permit through Cheeky County and they live in the county, and uh, what a process that was. But we did help them get set up and started, and um, they're one of our greatest success stories. I mean, they are just rushing it. Yeah. And that's been so fun because they still have the house to use when they can and they don't feel pressure to use it. And also because they have us on board, we're taking care of the property now. So when things are broken or things are not going well, we're fixing them. And if you've ever had a second home far away, it's a very stressful thing to come to a vacation and you're like, well, the dishwasher isn't working. I hear my kids want to go out and play and hike, and now I gotta call the 12-handyman. So we're doing all that for them. And so that's another aspect of choosing us or choosing short-term rental management for second homeowners is you have somebody keeping an eye on second home managing. They said 12-handyman and it made me laugh. Okay, you know, accurate or our county, unfortunately. Well, anybody has oh yeah, exactly. Yeah, and then show something contractors. That should be a separate concept. Yeah, yeah, yes. I will listen to that. Help us that problem. We will listen. A panel of contractors. Yeah, well, that's good. So yeah, that's a fun one. Yeah, so that there are those two when the projections are right and they work, and um that that happens too. And it adds value to their life um and also to their to their vacancy. Yeah, even the aesthetic of that home now, right? Because you're, you know, you're upgrading, you know, the linens and the pillows and just the small touches that I think they when you're in and out of a house and you're not really, you know, in it as much as a second homeowner. Like I I think about the day we walked into that house versus what it looks like now, it just feels different. Yeah, it feels like a home. Yeah, and they probably love that one and it's like fun. Yeah, so fun. So those are so fun. Well, thank you. Yeah, fun to hear about. Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you. Yes, yeah. That's so fun. I think when they bought that house, actually, I'm remembering back, um, it was at the time when the county, and again, this goes back to all the changes that we've had cycling through the last five to six years, it's been like one thing after another. But at the time they bought that, they could not get a short-term rental license because you even in the county, there were two lists, so you had to be a Chafee County resident, even in the county. And later that changed so that you could be out of Chafee County. And there was one list later to get a short-term rental license off of. So previously, the resident list and the non-resident list meant they went all the way through the resident list before issuing a short-term rental license. But the resident, the non-residents had to wait until all the residents had been asked. Okay, yeah, interesting. But and to offer like uh workforce housing for a year or three years. Three years. That's what it was. It didn't have to be consecutive. Oh my gosh, yeah, I was watching. That was when they lost. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so it wasn't really an option. By the time it came around. So, you guys, they actually did have that option. So, again, always fluid, always changing. Yeah. Yes, there's a lot of things. Thankfully, that worked out well for them. I think the time that they're out right now. Yeah, but I hope the county can listen to this too, or the city, and see that there are like families that want to be here and spend time here and spend their money here in our community that have these homes that would love an option to do what they did. And that's successfully for the county changing that the changes are really hard, but that's a successful story in those changes. That the family still gets to be part of our community. Yeah. They love it here. So and they're bringing visitors that wouldn't otherwise have been there. That's so true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think some people think, you know, running uh having a short-term rental is kind of a passive thing, but I'm sure it's really not. There's a lot to it that you all are really putting into this behind the scenes. So when things go wrong, what is it? Oh, yeah, too. You should tell them whatever. Yeah, we've done some stories. Uh well, I think I'm I think I mentioned this earlier, but part of I think, you know, a rule that I had taken on prior to um the beginning of this month was the property operations. And so um Jess knows this about me, but I I love properties. I just I love houses in general. Uh my husband and I, I think have owned like probably six or seven just in uh, you know, the last 15 years. We just my daughter wrote a poem the other day about moving six times since we've moved right. So we just need a lot of houses, we love properties, and so I was like, I will take this piece, I will love this. I'm a handy husband. This is no big deal. I had no big deal. No two three uh state. And then um, summer, as she should, went on spring break to Mexico without a net and like no cell service. And and then I was here for spring break, which we were full. I mean, that was a really it was a good time, it was hard, but it was really fun. Yeah, we were full. I'm so glad people are coming, even though there wasn't snow. Yeah, no snow, weather. We were maxed out. Like I just kept looking at the calendar and being like, wow, this is it. With we ride. Yeah, yeah, we're doing it. And how many say how many properties to I'm trying to remember six-ish that are local? I don't remember. Yeah. Off the top of my head, I know that breaks down, but I was focused on all the local ones this week. And it was like, you know, if if it could happen, just just name it. Um, and the the real picker was one that came at 10 o'clock on a Sunday night um with a home that has a gas fireplace. And the guest had been um using a combo of YouTube and I AI. Um, and so the results of what he eventually told. And part of that was that it might need propane, and there might not be a carbon monoxide detection detector in the home. And so there was, there is. We found all of our home. What was wrong with nothing? Oh, there was the pilot light. Was on the light. They didn't like that. Okay. Correct. They were worried about the the gas. They saw the pilot light running in the fireplace. You know, there's not like that. It's a standalone fireplace, it's not in walls. So it did those look a little bizarre if you've not seen one. But it's fully piped, it was all permitted, like it's all above board. Sure. And we do try to, through our communications, you know, diffuse as much as we can. We try to be helpful, but just kind of walk people through before we respond. Like, can you take care of this yourself? kind of thing. We do that a lot with internet passwords and door codes. Yeah. Yeah. But in this instance, we just could not calm him down. And he was asking to be, you know, removed from the home and asking us to find him housing. My goodness. And then o'clock on a Sunday night. During spring break. Yeah. Like we have no other properties available. Yeah. Um, so my husband um comes with, he refuses to get a couple of pajamas. Like I saw that part. Like, no, I'm staying in my pajamas. I want this guy to know. Yeah, I live without a doubt in that. Just in case. That's what we need to do. No, I want him to know this is inconvenient. Yeah. Getting out of the feel. Um, anyway, we go over, we we turn the pilot light off. You know, the guest stays, we check it. You shut down the entire gas. The whole gas line just to just to get through the night. Um, you know, checked in with the guests the next couple days, got a five-star. Oh, yeah, he loves you. Oh, good. He loves it. So because who else comes out in their pajamas at 10 o'clock on a Sunday night? I mean, I do think part of why we love this business so much is because she and I are both solution-oriented, right? So a bad week requires a lot of problem solving. Right. But typically that's it. Yeah. It's it's nothing worse than problem solving. And because we are operating in this community, we do know the 12 hand-eman to call to call. You know, we've got a couple clubs that be done. We do, yeah. Like, hey, Mike, we've got a plumbing issue again, you know. And I feel like because we're driving that business, you know, they're being responsive to us. And because we are identifying things or listening to guests as they identify things, I think our owners really appreciate that level of service too. Um, the dishwasher at another property is another great example. You know, we just kept getting a ting from guest after guest after, you know, these aren't clean, it's not running. And so we ended up replacing a dishwasher at a property. Um, so it's just, I think the bad weeks are in our case for right now. Maybe we'll have more stories on a future. There are more funny stories in there, like fat weeks. Yeah. Like I'll be, I'll cover and be like, listen to this. Yeah. You're like the whole gas line. How'd they make their breakfast? And the stove's stuff with gas, also. We can we're out to breakfast. They have community in the moment. Yeah, that's also their fun. I am thinking. Yeah. Yeah. I think that some of the things you said in there, I I especially love about your business and that you're showcasing the community for anyone that visits. And some of the owners, I'm assuming, are not even Chaffee County residents sometimes. So helping integrate their perception of like this. Is Celida. This is what we love. This is how we do things here. Yeah. And that's a beautiful thing to do for people. Yeah. I don't know if you were gonna go here, but we have what we call a live like a local campaign where this year confirm we're giving you information and we're asking, you know, it's funny how many guests just share why they're coming, which is really fun. You know, they're like, it's my daughter's wedding, or we just had a set, two sets of grandparents here for the birth of their grandchild. Let's see them two of our properties. And so getting the opportunity, almost like concierge or experience. We have a business partner that helps with that too. And to recommend, you know, our friend Christina that sells sourdough. Like you wouldn't know that if you're coming into a you know property and you're not local. And so really trying to showcase like those really like special sauce things about Celida. Of course, all the normal things, right? Mount Forgs and Hot Springs and Ski Resort and the big things, all the things you're doing when you're coming up with your business ideas. Yes, yes, yeah, and trying to showcase you know those kind of those secrets of Zelda that make you feel like, ooh, I'm this is a special. Yeah, and I want to come back. You do a really good job of that too with all your marketing is just like drawing people to our town for this is why we're doing this together, right? Yeah. Um, but we Lisa and I, like I said earlier, we're both somewhat new to permanently living here, and we just love our community. And I think we both got here, and once you get integrated into this community, you realize because we are small, that part's new to me, everyone we know has a business or contributes locally in some way to this community. And that was a driver for us starting this business is how can we give back to this community? And then we have such a great opportunity when we have these guests come to help make sure that they're when they show up, they're they know where they get their groceries in our community. Like you said, you said sourdough and where you go shopping and which festivals you go to. Yeah. We want them to spend all their money here with our friends so that Celida can continue to throw. Yeah. Yes. And so there's this like circle of Celita life, um Chi County life, Crestview life, hopefully some steamboat life. Um, that we want to keep promoting these mountain towns, you know. Also, yeah, it's such a fun part of what we get to. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Love that. Well, there's some challenges in the community with short-term rentals. There's license. Uh one permit per owner rule, no ADR, ADU, short short-term middle, residency requirements, depending on the the the town and what their what their flavor of the week is for what their policy is. But we love you. County commissioners and St. County. We love you. From time to time. I would say it shows that they care. Yeah what's happened. They're they're very but it has been hard. Yeah. So what advice do you have for property owners that are trying to navigate all this and get into the short-term real market and kind of think through like whether this is right for them? Good question. Um, there's a lot there. I know. It is, I would say high level, like the advice would be like talk to us because that's part of, you know, the conversation that we love to have with people. And that's part of what we've charged ourselves with is staying on top of all this. And so we have attended city council meetings and we have gone to planning and zoning commission meetings to try to just be a voice. You know, there is um a group of S tier owners that kind of congregate around different issues sometimes. And we've been trying to be active in that group. And so I think it's just, you know, getting plugged in somehow, and we're happy to help with that because I I do think it's overwhelming if you don't live here to try to keep up with all of it. Yeah. And I think it all, you know, I love them all too. And I wish we could find a way to just be more proactive as we're looking at these policies. Whereas, like it feels like to me from what I've seen in the last five years, everything's been so reactive. Like there's been these small changes or big changes in some cases as a reaction to something, instead of like maybe just taking a minute and really driving forward a proactive strategy. What do we want this to look like in the light of JP County, B V, Rested View? Like what what do we what do we see in 20 years? And then how do we set the policy now to drive towards that instead of this? Like now this happens, we're changing this, and then another slide from 90 to 87 for like, yeah. Right. Why? Yeah. So it's just been a little uh chaotic. And so I think my advice would just be to reach out, if not to us. You know, I think real estate agents are are trying to keep track of this too. Yeah. Um, but we're just we're really trying to be that resource for owners to for them to understand both their role as an owner and then how their property fits into this puzzle. Yeah, what we're doing as a community as a whole. So any advice that you'd give to uh local policy makers or even just locals in general, as far as that conver, you know, as this is an ongoing conversation, and I'm sure it will be while Salida grows. Yeah, what what do you think you'd say to all of them since you have an audience here at all listening? Yeah, to our advice. I hope so. Our biased advice. Literally our business. Well, I think you do have a buy-in as legitimate community members and business owners too. Yeah, and real estate investors have been an investor for 15 years. And so I understand that investment side, and then I I live in this community. I don't want this community to be yeah, short-term rental in every door and every other house. You don't want your neighbors to have to leave because they can't afford their long-term rental anymore. That's too. So there's got to be this balance of um how do you uh you know continue to afford to live in this community? There's that side where you know people have these assets that they bought 10, 15, 20 years ago um when things were like quote unquote more affordable, and now the cost of living here is very expensive in all mountain towns, all the country as well, but just specifically here. So, how do these um homeowners keep their home? Is uh allowing them an oh can they short-term rent an ADU in their in their house just to be able to stay so they don't have to sell to afford their mortgage, to afford their mortgage, or you know, or the or we're gonna force them to sell for a very high price that only a very wealthy person from the outside almost at this point can come in and afford. Yeah, that's a great point. And then the current policy doesn't necessarily allow that, the in Salida specifically, um, or BB with a moratorium. Um, but you know, a thousand dollar fee up front and fifteen dollars a night per room, that's very, really constrictive and doesn't really allow them to help you their morning. Have a creative solution. Yeah. So that part I think is as a community member with a lot of friends who own homes is really tricky and hard. Um, you know, but I I do understand why why they are are capping and wanting to preserve the character of Celida, which I appreciate. So I understand both sides. Um Celida specifically, it is more expensive to operate a short-term rental as far as our fees than Heliride, like these really fantastic resort towns that have these really high nightly rates. We don't have those highlight nightly rates, we have very high fees, uh-huh. Um, which Celida has been very transparent about um how they're spending the money. And hopefully we will see the fruits of that maybe in the next couple of years when these workforce housing projects are done. And um, hopefully that will do as it is intended. But in the moment, it is, you know, we're we're seeing less occupancy in Celida than B perhaps. And um or county property or than a county property. County properties are staying booked over Salida properties. Yeah, just just percentage, you know, just occupancy. And so I think what's happening is we're seeing um, you know, guests get to the checkout in at a Celida property, and it's several hundred dollars more for the same kind of thing in one of this stuff. Because the owner's trying to cover the fees. Yes, yes, and most what we found is that I mean, yeah, you kind of have to pass those fees on to the client. Yeah, even guest is actually in those cases taking on that being. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's probably them in the contract board. Yeah. Um, because our our nightly rates are not very high in our town anyway. So um, I think a lot of people have this preconceived notion that like, oh, if you have a short-term rental, you must be rich enough and you're making all this money. And it does exist for sure, but not really in Salida. We haven't found that to be true. They're not like huge, huge, huge money makers. Um, the the goal of most of these owners is being able to keep their second home and continue to be here. Um that's that's our experience, I think. Yeah. For most people. Yeah. So that was a long-winded answer to how I advise the city. I would love to see a lesser nightly rate for my owners. Um, but just also to to maybe stick with a plan here. I mean, we just saw a recent change a couple months ago, which is beneficial for out-of-town residents to be able to purchase um a Celida property right downtown and be able to short them rent it. That was new. Um, but you know, that was just like a change that they made in a city council meeting. So um just these the wishy-washy is is really tricky. And so that part's hard. And I think the intent is to try to be pro-resident, pro Solita, right? Which isn't a bad thing, but if that's the case, then maybe we stop. It feels like we're penalizing people who aren't instead of finding ways to proactively help Salidas. I love that. Like take the room tax off for a resident, or take the floor. Or loan or a license fee or something. Or allow them to rent out a part of the property correct, which they feel a resident have to make tax on all of the rooms in their homes. So if I want to rent out one bedroom in my home and it's a four-bedroom, I'm paying the room tax for all four bedrooms, even though they're not available to rent. That's so there's I just think there's some ways that we could be more pro-selected resident instead of anti non- outsiders. Correct. Yeah, I love that. As we're saying that we don't think, you know, we're we're also saying like things are changing all the time. Stop. Yeah, but they are changing some. Yeah, but I do, I appreciate the intent. You know, I've I've been coming to this town since 2008. My husband's been coming since the mid-90s. We wanted to be in Salida because of what Celaida is, right? So same as summer. None of us want this to be overrun. And I think, you know, I think you I see a reality where you you can do both, right? Like I I do think the the you know density, finding places of density, right? Down down two rivers, like wherever that location is, and kind of just, you know, pushing the permits there so it's not in neighborhoods is a really smart totally policy change. But then how do we go one step forward further and make sure that like the residents can take advantage of those changes too? Yeah, I I love it, and you didn't reiterate this, but the creative solutions for residents that we open up policies so that they can have if their home's a moneymaker, like let it be a moneymaker so they can stay put. Yeah, right. And they can own their business and yeah, keep their home. And there were stories when the room tax was coming to a vote about individuals like I was mentioning that were trying to rent one room in their home and I think having a fair amount of success or at least covering their expenses doing that. I don't know what happened to those people with this room tax or when the permit went to a thousand. Um, you know, I I'm I'm guessing they got lost in this, and I that was not the intent, right? Right was to penalize anyone locally. I think that's a great point. We just need a balance for defining that balance. And I I think the shifting is at us trying to find balance these last years. And a big part of that I would backtrack a bit, like, and you both came during this wave, the COVID wave, of an influx of buyers to our area that raised property prices 50%. You saw like an equity gain that you had never seen before here. Yeah, and that all of a sudden we were unaffordable, you know, comparatively to some other Colorado cities. Yeah, I think so much of that influx was laying on short-term. Totally. Right. And it was not necessarily that laying done short-term. Totally. So then the policy switch. Or realtors, blame a local realtor bumper sticker, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I just so we have a shout out in here to the housing needs assessment. Yeah. Do you want to touch on that? Because like I think we should have that in the podcast today. Yeah, you need to take the housing needs assessment. It's it's a uh every 10-year kind of thing where we do a really robust understanding of what are what are the um needs in this community for affordability. And um so I just put a plug in there to take it to the the needs that has it. Yeah, and hopefully this podcast airs before that closes. Because I don't think we have much time, but we'll make sure there's a link in the show notes. And if you haven't taken it yet, take it. Tell everybody to take it. Because I think they determine a lot of local policy, is that's the foundation for it for the next 10 years. And then we're trying to take it. That's my point. That's how far out we should be thinking. Yeah, right. It's the future. Well, what do we want this community to be? It's not really people in town, say, Celida needs to decide what it wants to be. And then once we make that decision, then you can, you know, I think look at best practices across the state. Who did this well? Who didn't where do we want to you know land? Who's an empty shell of once what they once were? Yeah. Yeah. I won't name names. Yeah, yeah. But that's what you have to be really careful in the short-term rental option. Is um, yes, I agree with the resident piece. Um, but I think perhaps what we're finding or have found, I would be curious to know numbers-wise, but there are our local population, we're almost we've got to be close to being tapped out of locals who can afford like a second home in our town to short-term rent. Right. And so that whole piece has to be considered as well. So if you're you're going to allow, you know, either residents currently or people who already own a second home here who cannot short-term rent it and they see that sticker they can sell it for. Are they gonna sell it? And at what point are we going to have really wealthy people come in and buy these homes? That's right. Not against. We're not against. We want to keep value. You have or at least give them the protection to stay here and be here so that we're not knocking down nice, you know, these homes and then becoming you know, totally gentrified record, um, whatever. Or if that is our goal, that's our goal. But you know, that's something that I think we all love about Solidis, it feels still feels so weak. Yeah, it's you know, not these multi-multi-million dollar houses downtown. Yeah. So if, you know, I would imagine that is a goal shared by most in our town. And so how do we preserve that? And can a short-term rental code allow homeowners here or or second homeowners the flexibility to do to keep their property, essentially. So solving the issues here, but it's all things to think about. You know what I mean? I think that goes back to Lisa's comment earlier, which I loved, is rewarding full-time residents and not just penalizing out of out-of-towners. And there's gotta be a maybe a policy shift towards that that could be really helpful. And I think you said it really well. Thank you. Yeah, because we love our out of towners too. We have to. Like they was not a towner, so I wasn't. Yeah. And so yeah, I would have to to love them. They come here and they send their money here and they well, we don't have a lot of other industry. Yeah, yeah. And that's what's really interesting being plugged into the community now is that um, you know, we know a bunch of business owners on a street, and their livelihood is made or or not made on a snowy weekend or not, um, around tourism or not. And if we're seeing declines in occupancy and short-term rental, that's a trigger um for our friends. And so that you know, that's how we fun, that's how we we function in our town. You know, yeah. Yeah. Find balance. I want to go back to the very beginning of the podcast as we kind of wind down here and think about the two of you after yoga. Going for it, hopefully it was an evening, margarita. I don't know. I'm not gonna have a time on that margarita. Uh, yoga class. And so you you have families here, you have kids, and just that sense of you know, yoga together, hot springs on the weekend, and what and I turned to my husband the other day and said, I can't believe that I love this place even more, you know, six years later than I did. I thought when we moved here, I'm like, this is a dream. I love it. But six years have gone, and I'm like, I love it more every year. It is as magical of a place as you think it's going to be if you visit and stay in a short-term rental. So, how do you bring like the family element of you know, your day-to-day interactions and your life? Like you said a little bit about that. Live like a local. I love that. Is there is there one takeaway that we could end with on that note of the family element of your business? Yeah, I think well, I think it drives everything we do. Like we're both a really busy mom. We have a bunch of different aged kids all over the community. Yeah, we're both thinking moms, and so we can appeal or empathize with the mass majority of our guests. Yeah. When they come into town for whatever it is, um, we've experienced that in some some way. And so that's a really fun part of what we get to do is um say, like, welcome and come and um let me give you an idea of how you could shape your weekend for this wedding that you're attending or for the bachelorette party or for a weekend with your family. Yeah. And that's the one of the greatest things we get to do. It's probably my favorite part. Yeah. And I think we both have family values that really um appreciate and um drive ourselves towards travel. And yeah, like we're we're big travelers ourselves, you know. I don't have as big of a family as Sarah, but big enough that like we have to find the right place for you know, five two dogs. Yeah. You know, whenever we're traveling anywhere. And so I think it's thinking about that too, like being able to put ourselves in those family shoes and thinking about like when we did onboard the house out in Naysville, like, what are the little touches that if I'm here, because that house wanted to be family friendly. Yeah. And so we're talking about things like outlet covers and baby gates and peck and plays and like just extra amenities. And that shows up in our reviews where almost everyone will say, like, how well appointed the house was. Thought of it all. You thought of everything. Like, I didn't have to, you know, think of a thing. And so I think that's where it really shines through is you've got two moms that are always thinking of everything. Everything we have to do. You are the age brand. We have to, yeah. We're trying to take that off these families or any guests. You don't have to have a family to have this affect you. That you know, you go you forgot your toiletries. Well, here's a drawer of floss, you know. All these different things. And so I think that's the big piece that we're driving into this business is you feel like you just walked into one of our homes. Yeah. Oh, that you're just a guest in our home. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the community can embrace people like that too. Yeah. Open arms. Yeah. I think so. We've got some rapid fire questions to round us out. Go for it. Okay. Land with a view or walkable to downtown. I know where you both live. Oh, yeah. That's probably live in opposite. Yeah. So I would you stay where you are? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I live on F Street. Oh, very privileged. Um, I've told the story to a couple people, but I came to Solida for the first time in 2008 and happened to be here during Fib Arc and looked at my husband, who was still just my boyfriend at the time and was like, why don't we live here? Yeah. Um, and if you had told me on that day that I would one day live on F Street, I would have been like, Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I I love to walk or hop on my rad bike and go anywhere. Go anywhere. And I have a view, and I yeah, I couldn't give it up. I don't think it up. Yeah. I love it. I can call summer at any time of the day and ask about the snow pack. Yeah, tell you. That's still snowing at my view. Yeah, yeah. So, what's the first job you ever had? Well, I don't know this about you. Um, I was an on-air radio DJ. Wow. Radio station in smaller than Solida. You have a good voice. Yeah, yeah, they do. Um, so yeah, so funny. So radio personality, I guess. How old were you? I was 14. Oh, yeah. That's a kicker. Yeah. That's a kind of time. I'm like, Do you think your daughter could do that now? I was like, uh huh. I don't know. That she'd want to. I don't know. That's funny how I found it, but it was a blast. Yeah. She did something on the satellite radio came in and took my job. Oh, prior to that was a good one. It was fun before that. That's awesome. Um, I worked at a bed and breakfast. Uh yes. That's funny to think about. Yep. Still doing it. That makes a lot of years later. Yeah. So, what work would you be doing if money, you know, bringing in a paycheck wasn't an issue? I would be a yoga instructor at Yoga Olafs. I would be having lots of my leaders left the band. Anytime of day. I don't want to know where to find it. One of those two places. That's right. That's funny. Um sounds cheesy, but I love what we do. I would probably take off like some of the admin bog down side of things and like just do the hosting side. If we could just like host families or parties or events all day, I would do that all day, every day. I love it. Yeah. Yoga retreat at one of you. Yeah. Which we actually talked about. Yeah, I didn't think your mantra or motto. That's a good one. Mine's kind of cliche, but just treat others like you want to be treated. It sounds so simple, but I bet if we all actually did it myself included, we would just have a much different reality that we could deliver. You're good at that. You're really good at that. This is this is where I really value Summer in our business because I also try to do that. And I have no poker face. So poor Summer will be, you know, on some of these calls or with whoever. And she's just like, this is really great. I don't see how it's great to do. So I love you. And with summer, summer with her eyes smiley, like smile, Lisa. Yeah. You were like the other day we wrote a call with like a tech person, and Lisa did not like with a conversation. She was you were you were doing a great job, just drilling this guy, making sure he gave me what you needed. And I was like, everybody be nice! Great. I'm like, yeah, but where's this button? Mine is um, there was a whole poem, and I I I think it's just called Do It Anyway. Um and it's all the, you know, everything's gonna come at you. You've got you're always gonna have a challenge, and no matter what it is, just do it anyway. Um, and I think that's been that's driven my whole life. And that's why I say yes to so many things. It's like, does this make sense to do right now? Maybe not, but I'm gonna do it anyway. So I love curious. That's a good thing to teach kids too. Like with new excuses pile up, you know, to resilience. Okay, just do it anyway. Yeah, that's cool for sure. Favorite book or a book you're reading right now. Oh, that's hard. I read a lot of books. Summer reads a lot of audio. But my the my genre is historical fiction. Give me a historical fiction. Oh, really? Well, I love like learn feeling like there's value in what I'm reading. So happy entertained, yeah. So how do you find time to read? That's how I fall asleep. Oh, yeah. And then when I do find moments for me, I'm reading usually, which is very rare during the day, but yeah, my nighttime thing. Or when I wake up in the middle of the night, sometimes that's why I do. Well, I'm too middle-aged. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm almost listening to one too, like in the car. So I'm like, oh, yeah, definitely. I've been trying to force myself to be an adult reader. Um, because I'm a pretty big professional development nerd, and that's doesn't feel relaxing or fun. So I've been um into books that they're turning into movies as motivation to read books. So smart. That couple of the Colleen Hoovers that have just been recently made into movies are kind of like the the last two. And then you just gave me a recommendation for another one. I'm still starting to do that. I think I shall do remarkably bright creatures. It's on Netflix. Yeah, but yeah, anything that I can watch afterwards is what I'm reading. Smart. That's so smart. So what is the last question? Is what is home and what does it mean to you? Okay. Um well, I think home is obviously my family, but beyond that, I think um there's like a vibe or a feeling of a place. Traveled a bunch, I've lived a bunch of different places. And some places you just it's almost like when you leave, if you just yearn to be back or yearn to want to be there, that it feels like home. And I think even for people who don't have have the ability or opportunity to like live here full time that feel that when they come here, they can call this home too, because there are these places, and this is a strong one just because there's it's so amazing. Um that they can just be like a feeling that you have when you're there, and maybe a vision of yourself that you have when you're there. And that's why it's not here. That's why I moved here. This is it for me. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, good. Yeah, I would say family too. And my family, my husband is buying in Solida, and he came out as a middle schooler, went to the Boy Scout camp that was in Pontius Brainings, Packard Eye, Adventure Base, and then came back as a raft guide and and then came back again another summer. And then, you know, we just had this calling to like bring our family here, I think, because this is home for him. It was home for him first, right? So it feels like um, you know, this place that we should all be. And I feel the same way. You know, we both haul kids all over the front range, and we talk about, you know, you come back into town on Sunday and you're coming this direction instead of the other direction. Yeah, and you get the view of the collegiates at some point, and the blood pressure just like sinks. And such a gift. I've never felt that same anywhere else. Yeah, perfect note to end on. Oh, yeah, thanks for having us. Yes, thank you. So nice. Keep talking to you forever. We could well we really appreciate it. We'll put your website in the show notes. Thank you. People can find you. You have an Instagram we do, it's all on there. So we'll make sure we get all of that linked so people can look you up. And if you have a short-term mental or want to know about the potential, yeah, yeah. Could yeah, have the conversation. I think that's worth worth at least having the conversation. Yeah, we've got those those intro, those curiosity conversations. They're really fun. Yeah, that's fun. This episode is sponsored by Heart of the Rockies Home at Home Park Preferred Realty. We do real estate with Heart in the Heart of the Rockies and serve Colorado Mountain communities working to help clients navigate real estate in these unique towns. Whether you're buying, selling, or exploring your options, our goal is to make every step feel informed, supported, and straightforward.