Randy Kraft "The Scorecard Killer"

In Episode 10 of SoCal Slaughters, Bri and the crew dive into one of California’s most disturbing serial murder cases: Randy Kraft, known as “The Scorecard Killer.” The hosts examine Kraft’s decades-long killing spree, the mysterious coded scorecard found in his possession, victim profiles, evidence presented at trial, and the lasting impact his crimes had across Southern California. From his arrest to the investigation that helped connect dozens of victims, this episode explores one of the state’s most chilling criminal cases.

⚠️ TRIGGER WARNINGS:This episode contains discussions of serial murder, graphic violence, torture, sexual assault, abuse, kidnapping, dismemberment, victimization of young men, drugging, crime scene details, and other disturbing true crime content. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

🍹 Featured Cocktail: Harvey Wallbanger
- 1.5 oz Vodka
- 4–6 oz Orange Juice
- ½ oz Galliano Float
- Served over ice in a highball glass

🍊 Bri-Lixer (Non-Alcoholic Version)
-1.5 oz NA Vodka
- 4–6 oz Orange Juice
- ½ oz Galliano-Inspired Simple Syrup
- 1 cup sugar
-¼ cup fresh lemon juice
- Peels from 1 lemon
- 2 star anise
- ½ tsp vanilla extract
- Simmer until sugar dissolves, cool completely, then strain.
-Served over ice in a highball glass.

📚 Sources & Show Notes
Los Angeles Times (1988)https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-02-me-4891-story.html
Justia – California Supreme Court Case Detailshttps://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/4th/23/978.html
Long Beachize – Randy Kraft History & Timelinehttps://longbeachize.com/articles/the-disturbing-creepy-history-of-long-beachs-scorecard-killer-randy-kraft/

🎙️ Subscribe to SoCal Slaughters for new episodes covering Southern California’s most infamous crimes, mysteries, and killers. New episodes every Sunday.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:28

All right. How are we doing, you guys? Welcome to the podcast. I'm Brie. I'm Rachel.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

I'm Joey. And this is SoCal Slaughters.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

All right. So this week, we had a really big week this week. Um, we just got back from CrimeCon. It was a whirl of wind. Yes. It was very um, I would hate to use the word chaotic, but it is. I I liken it to the Bermuda Triangle of hotels trying to navigate the separate floors and different meeting halls and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

She was fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

I was 100% fine. All I had to do was go there one time and then I could go there 65 more times. Plus, I had to like give them directions through via text message when they were both.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

I literally took a picture and said, This is where I am. And she told me exactly where to go to get to where I needed to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

This, I don't know what is going on with your like directional brains.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Listen, I'm normally Sacachabrea and I can get around everywhere. That's true. However, I will claim a medical excuse because I did have a migraine earlier that day. And my medication is very strong for those of my um my migraine sufferers. They understand.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah. I have zero excuse. I just have zero sense of direction. Yes. Like ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

I also think that it has to do with a lot of the time of like. But I also just trust that Joe is that's true.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

And not looking where you're going.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Don't do that. I believe also that if Joey's there, I'm like, where are we going? Yeah. You know where we're going. That's fine. Like I'm not always going in a circle.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Oh like I might say, like which I did. The wrong direction when I was speaking to you because everything in my head is forwards. Yes. And so the directionally it might not be correct, but I know exactly where we're going. It was. I'm I will go into the map.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Well, it was successful.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah. Yes.

unknown 2:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

It was very successful. We met so many wonderful people. So many great people. We um got a lot of really amazing merch that's created by so many victim advocates. And we are on our socials, which are yes, uh Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, the girls at SoCal Slaughters.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

It's not a email. Yeah. Email.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Email is the girls at SoCal Slaughters, but we're just at SoCal Slaughters for all the socials. And just keep up with those because we will be posting um and tagging uh the different vendors and the different people, like along with a lot of the really, really great stuff that we got. Yeah, we picked up from all the tables. Some of it's out on, we've already displayed it, but we're kind of going through everything right now and just really like because there's a lot. Yeah, taking inventory. There's a lot of stuff. And you'll see the entire collection. We put it out in our hotel room and we took a uh shot of that. That's gonna be on socials. Just keep up with the buddies. Yeah. So yeah, good times. Yeah. I enjoyed it. Can't wait till next year, Orlando.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

We might booth or Crime Cron UK.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Yes, that's a tough time of um the year.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

No, no, that's just this year. Next year we can do Crime Crown.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Yeah, this year, CrimeCon UK is it's a tough time of the year for me. Um uh to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Tell them why, Joey. Tell them why we can't go to Crime Crown UK.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Uh it takes place on the exact same day as the Seahawks game in Seattle against the Chargers, and I will be at that game. So I'm sorry. I like football. What do you want me to say?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I find the word like to just be an under-exaggeration a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Okay, I really like football. So I won't be able to make that work this year. But um, again, Orlando, uh, if we have a booth, that's gonna be like best case scenario for next year. We would love to have a booth. And then you guys can come visit us at our booth. I know it'll be so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

We can't wait. Everybody there was so kind and so welcoming. It is a little community that I know that we are very excited to be a part of.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

So happy that we were welcomed into it as like lovingly as we were too. Yeah. Yeah. But was what was funny was that we had like each one of us had a tote and we had like the exact same things that everybody had out on their booth tables. We just carried them around with us. So we were just like, oh, here we'll collect all the stuff, but then here's all of our stuff for you, even though you can't like pick it up from a table, like which just on us. So it was like the perfect mobile booth.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yeah, we were club, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Exactly. Yeah, that is true. Yeah, so that was cool. I'm glad that we did that that way. So it was a great time. Loving it. Um, also loving to get into this. Yes, yes, I haven't even tried it yet. Yeah, I'm really neither.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

So, our case today, it does cover the span of the 70s and early 80s, and a big portion of it was the gay bar scene during that time. And I thought one of the most popular drinks during that time was the Harvey Wallbanger. I have never actually had somebody order it, but I I mean I knew the components, they are very simple. It is vodka OJ. It's basically just a screwdriver with a float of Galeano. And honestly, for me, I made a virgin, but I made my own version of Galeano, which was pretty simple, and I will link it in our show notes.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Well, why don't you explain what the flavors of Galeano are?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

What I did was I just made a simple syrup, but I made a lemon simple syrup. I included the orange or the lemon rind. I have star and east because you know, if you're ever in our houses during Christmas time, we're gonna make some mold wine. Yeah. And so I always have that on hand. Yeah. That's fine. And then there's a lemon component or excuse me, uh a vanilla component to it. So all of those things cooked down so beautifully together. It took five minutes. Perfect. Five minutes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

And those are all the flavors that make up Galeano. Yes. Which um uh the Harvey Wallbanger was one of the very first drinks introduced into Galeano, like with Galeano because it was a new, yeah, it was a newer um like uh trend that was happening at that time, which is cool. Um, and here's a little piece of info for your the cocktail corner of your brain. Um Galeano uh is always the component of any cocktail that is referred to as against the wall. So that's the wall banger. So really, yeah. So like anytime you were to order or hear a cocktail ordered and they want it against the wall, that means you just add a float of Galliano on top.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Fun facts all day long. Yeah like the slow, comfortable screw against the wall.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yes, yeah. So slow, comfortable screw against the wall is literally the recipe for that drink. So it's slow gin, southern comfort, oh gin because it's screwed and that makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah, I like that. That's cute. Well, also, they're not getting ordered enough anymore. So you guys definitely give Galeano a try. Because it's really tasty. About to. Okay.

unknown 8:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Also, I have a little flamingo. Oh, yeah. I love it. It's so cute. You like? Yeah. Oh, that's good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's really good because it's basically a screwdriver, but then you get like anything tastes good with vanilla like vanilla and o-gine.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

And tell me how close it tastes to it. Because I couldn't sample it.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Oh my gosh, almost exact.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Oh my gosh, this makes me so happy. I will, I'm honestly, it's so easy to make. I'm gonna use that simple syrup and other stuff because it was so easy, and I actually have a lot of it now.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Yeah, because it's almost like a little, it's got the orange and it has the vanilla notes. So it's almost got like that creamsicle. Yes. But then you still get like some of the citrus.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And there's a little spice that gives you the cherinese. Little, little hint of anise. And we all know I'm a big fan.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Yeah. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

For my for net my heart.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Um, okay, so awesome. So also very uh like prime timing because it is Pride Month. Oh, as well. Oh, by the way. Happy Pride month. Yeah, I didn't even think about it. Pride month.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah, Zoe told me yesterday. I forget why she brought it up, but I was like, oh yeah, it's June. It's June already. Yeah. Wow. This is just flown by like so quickly. Yeah, we are getting ready to put together our last few episodes of this season, which is surreal.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah. Like honestly surreal. Which actually now thinking of it coincidentally, my case next week. Also a little bit of the on the scene. Yeah. That's cool. That's perfect. Well, a little Pride Monthy. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yeah. Unintentionally. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

There was not good things that happened in this story today. And I will absolutely warn you, trigger warning across the board. Um, there's a lot of graphic details in today's episode. There's violent language, violence that happened, and there is there's just there's a lot of things. So if that is not for you, I've tried to scale it back and use verbiage that is not very aggressive. Yeah. But the facts are the facts.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Well, we also have to try to use verbiage that's a lot of different things. Not gonna get it, yeah. Some of the stuff might be like in code, if you will. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

I I I I feel like I've I've written it so that we're not gonna get that so around it. Good. Regardless. Um, so shall we get into it? Yeah, you guys ready? Okay, well, actually, have some more of your drinks. I'm drinking absolutely this right now. In the early morning hours of May 14th, 1983. Two CHP officers noticed a Toyota Selica weaving across the I-5, driving erratically. And this was near San Juan Capistrano, so southern Orange County. They pulled the Selica over and asked a driver to step out of the vehicle and they performed a field sobriety test. They noticed at that time that he had a passenger in the front seat, but the passenger was asleep. So upon um performing the sobriety test, they did determine that he was intoxicated. So while one officer was concentrating on that and the arrest for that, the other walked up to the passenger side window. And that's when he noticed that this passenger, a young male, was not passed out. He was dead. Yes. His wrists had been bound, his pants were unbuttoned and pulled down to almost his knees, and it it was shocking to say the least. They didn't expect that that was what they were going to find. This was the car of 38-year-old Randy Kraft, and the young man in the front seat was 24-year-old, 25-year-old Marine named Terry Lee Gambrel. Now, the scene alone was enough for a homicide arrest. However, what police would find during the search of Kraft's car, namely his trunk, it would tie together killings from as early as 1971 that police had been searching for their killer and had been eloted for over a decade. Wow. So when they opened the trunk of Kraft's for Toyota Selica, they found a sheet of paper encrypted with Kraft's own code, like shorthand almost, listing 61 entries. They also discovered photographs of young men. They found Valium, they found personal items related to various victims and other evidence connecting Kraft to unsolved murders just all across Southern California. This case ranges from 1971 to 1983. There are 67 assumed victims that investigators believe that Kraft was responsible for. This case does mainly take place in Orange County. However, he Kraft ended up getting a job where he traveled because of aerospace and he traveled to Oregon and Michigan. However, I'm not gonna concentrate on those, though they are listed amongst his victims, but they're outside of our jurisdiction. So they will, although they are victims, they're just not gonna be concentrated on for our purposes.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

And like that was probably, you know, great for him, you know, because anytime you can get out of town, like it's usually uh this'll throw them off situation.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

He didn't really care, I don't think. The big difference between suspected, convicted, and simply linked to these victims would have to be linked to this encrypted uh code that he had. And they saw these 61 victims and they ended up using it as his what they dubbed him as. They considered it a scorecard, basically linking all of his victims, keeping track of them because how are you gonna keep track of all those victims? And he also wants to be able to go back, reference that list and relive those events.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Oh wow, so it was literally a code, but it was a code list of the victims where they took where he where it took place and something tying it to their name so that he could be brought back to the scene of the crime. Yeah, and like okay, so that's a totally yeah, it's it's pretty much that's a totally another level of like yeah, if sadistics.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Because it's that many, then you need that, you need a list. Yeah, then you need a list. So, all in all, Randy Kraft has been convicted for 16 murders, making him one of the country's most prolific serial killers of all time. For sure. So let's get into it. Who was Randy Kraft? He was born in March of 1945 in Long Beach, California. These are all just so we're on the same page. This is going to be our hood. Oh, okay. Lots of places that we know, hang out, everything. Interesting. Yeah, intriguing. And it makes sense as we get into this. It'll all it'll make a lot more sense. So he's the youngest of four children. He's the only boy, which of course ended up meaning that his mom doted on him a little too much, his sisters as well. His dad is just like that typical um guy at that time. I know there was a lot of it working in manufacturing in Long Beach. And then his mom was a stay-at-home mom and a housewife. Um, he was considered to be intelligent, polite. He excelled in math and um electronics. Um, he attended Claremont's men's college, working, majored in economics. It's now just Claremont College, but you know, I was gonna say yeah. At the time, just for men. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So while in college, the political climate was very heavy. We're talking about we're in the middle of the Vietnam War era. So, and because it's the 1960s, um, with mo as with most colleges, there was a lot of um not just protesting, but there was a lot of dis divisiveness amongst the college students that were there. So Randy Kraft actually had more conservative leaning political views, which is odd because it was around the time that Randy Kraft got to college that he started to really take notice of his sexual orientation. But that didn't stop him from um demonstrating in favor of the Vietnam War.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

At the time, he joined up with the ROTC, which is the Reserve Officers Training Corps. Um, Kraft supported conservative political organizations and can and campaigned for right-wing presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy. This is when around that time, it could. I mean, he was so big into that campaign, and he did so much work for him that he actually got like a handwritten letter from RFK. Wow. So he he definitely had these conservative feelings, and those were challenged by him now exploring his sexual orientation because Randy Kraft was a homosexual.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Um, so he began to dip his toe into the gay scene while he was there. Um, he also had his first significant homosexual relationship while he was at uh Claremont College. By but by the beginning of the next school year, because he is starting to actually immerse himself in gay culture, he has done a complete 180. He started to like grow his hair out, grew his mustache out. He um mustache. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

I love a mustache. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

I'm all I I do too. I do too. I love a beard, I love a mustache. I'm like, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

No, I got really excited there for a second. Like that's that's my only explanation.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

I'm still waiting for the Tom Selleck looking.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

I was just gonna bring him up to must take hold.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Tom Selleck. I can do those I could do those hoochie dad, hoochie daddy shorts any day. Let's go, Magnum PI. For that man was. I'm gonna side note or sidetrack real quick, but every single female PE teacher that I ever had, and they look like they were batting for the same team, yeah, they still had pictures of him up on their wall. I don't know if he was a lesbian gay icon or if they were just like, I would turn for you. A hundred.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

I mean, I feel I think it's like just every single human being in the world is like Tom Felleck, yeah, thumbs up. Yeah, get over it, Monica. So why are you not having kids? Get over it. I I I'm still I'm still upset. I can't have a family.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah, it's fine. Okay, so again, jumping back in. I'm so sorry. Okay, so like I said, by the beginning of the next school year, he had really changed a lot. He grew out his hair, his mustache, and he definitely put a lot more thought into his conservative views. But I think that he was really struggling with his feelings about why he felt so bad about being a homosexual. I mean, at that time it was not okay to be out. Right. And um, he had these conservative views. And I think at that time, what psychologists said is that he was really starting to get angry with himself for having an attraction to men. And then that anger was really directed towards them. Like they had some control over him, which in turn made him feel out of control.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

I mean, at that time, it's essentially everything that he had become, it's it was like the opposite side of that. Yes. And that's yeah, at that time.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

You really you couldn't be crazy out. Yeah. Um, by his last year at Claremont College, that's when we start to see him making more high-risk decisions. He was drinking heavily, he was using drugs, he was increasingly involved in the gay bar scene. Rumors amongst his friends and peers at Claremont College that were never substantiated, mind you, but they were known is that he was getting increasingly interested in BDSM. Um, he was known to go after the hustlers on the in the gay bar scene, which he did freely and openly there. But his friends and family had no idea that this was the life that he was living. He did it all in secret, just living a double life. During his final years at Claremont College, he actually moved off campus and shared an apartment with a roommate in Huntington Beach. Uh, they he spent his free time at the local gay bars drinking and then gambling late into the night. Most of the people that knew him really don't remember Randy ever sleeping, which to me, I I know I need sleep. To function. I don't function well without it. In 1966, Kraft was arrested for lewd conduct for propositioning a Huntington Beach police officer. Oops. But he was let off with a warning because it was his first offense. Kraft was extremely private and guarded about his personal life. Understandable, you know, due to the climate, it wasn't accepted that he was homosexual. He did choose to come out to his parents, which ended up causing his father to quit speaking to him for a little bit. But I mean, he did end up just accepting it, whether or not that meant accepting him is not the same as him just accepting the situation. Yeah. Uh the way that Kraft had compartmentalized his two personas is to believe to have been is believed to have been what made it so easy for him to lead such a dark and secretive double life because he had a lot of practice at it. He compartmentalized his life. This is who I am in this conservative, clean-cut way. And when I get out and I'm not around people that I know, I can be who I really feel like I am. But he was that those two sides of him just butted up against each other. Yeah. And he really struggled with it.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

I mean, it was a fight.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Um, so the day after RFK's assassination in 1968, Kraft enlisted in the Air Force. He was 23 years old at the time. He scored so high on his aptitude test and his background checks that he was given a secret security clearance.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

So the Air Force trusted him with secret security clearance, meaning he was considered reliable enough to ask to have access freely to government information. That's that's a like that's some serious stuff. But like, how did they not see the red flags? How did I mean he was probably trying to keep like a pro his persona, like but they're doing background checks, like the military trusted him with secret clearance, but how did they not see it? They the people in the bar scene knew him. Yeah, they knew him as being a heavy drinker at school, they knew that he was a homosexual. If they'd done their homework on that, they would have seen.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

But there are there any like records that they could have checked at this point? What about the arrest?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Or the I mean, he was let off with a warning. So do they not guess they don't just keep track of those things?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Were they like actually talking to his friends specifically?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

I would, I mean, that's what they do with back military brass.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah, they do have to like call.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Maybe they were just kind of like and even like in the bar scene, those people, I mean, he was known to drink heavily. So when you get security clearance, they go and do to your financial records, they look into whether or not you drink, use drugs, what you spend your free time doing. Like they're they're rigid about it. Okay. And like the bar regulars knew that he was going after these um known hustlers and stuff like that, which means that he's having risky, like high-risk behavior. Right. So I just I don't see how they didn't see these red flags, but or weren't told these red flags. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

I mean, they might have just all been like, uh, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah, that maybe not the same guy, maybe because he is very unassuming. While in the air force, Kraft held the rank of um airman first class. He was successful within the rigidity and the structure of the military, so he excelled very well. Um, in 1969, while he was in the Air Force, it was not accepted to be out and be in the military. Right. But that didn't stop Kraft from telling his supervisors that he was gay.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

As a result, he was released through a general discharge, not honor, not an honorable discharge, a general discharge. Okay. With medical reasons being cited.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Okay. So they never went about it.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Yes. So um, what Kraft was quickly learning was that his sexuality was playing a really negative role in his life. It was alienating him from his family. It was derailing where he thought his future was going with the Air Force. It was causing judgment, it was getting him arrested, like all of those things he was really starting to, those were starting to take hold as his thoughts, you know. That's so awful.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

I mean, we know where this is headed, but just to be in that like wrong place, wrong time. Like if you know, if he had been born in today's time, it's not always as acceptable now, but it's acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Like, yeah, I still think that he would have snapped in some other way and there'd be some other exceptions.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

It was still an internal bad. It might not have been as bad. Yeah. Not to say he would have been a good one.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Because society definitely is at that time like adding to, you know, the battle that he's having within himself. But I mean, it there's I still do feel like there probably would have still been an internal battle, but like you're right, it probably would have been like maybe a uh at a like lighter.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah, and there could have been a different direction that he took. Yeah, yeah. So um, after being discharged, Kraft moved back home with his parents and took work at a bartender or as a bartender at a bar called Muggs. It was a gay bar in Garden Grove, it's not there anymore, but still super awesome.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Such a cute age, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah. Um, he often took his bar hookups to the beach to hook up. Uh-huh. So this is a really high-risk behavior as well because they run the risk of getting caught by police. They're just some random that he's hooking up with. So we do start to see that his behavior is starting to increase and the the risks that he's taking. Yeah. In March of 1970, Kraft is now living in Long Beach with a roommate. One day, he picks up a 13-year-old boy who had just run away from home. How old is he now? Um, uh, this is because he was 23 when he enlisted in the army, right? Or the Air Force, sorry. He's 25 now. He's 25. Okay. So Kraft coerces him into his car with the offerings of beer and, you know, shelter because this kid's just run away. He takes him back to his shared apartment, mind you, where he offers him a drink that's laced with Valium. So he drugs this kid and then he violently assaults him. This would be the first major violent crime that Kraft committed against a vulnerable young man, but certainly not his last. Um, but this kid was able to escape. I was gonna say, so did he live? He he escaped. He didn't kill him, he just assaulted him. Okay. Um, he was able to escape and get help. He was taken to the hospital and police interviewed him, but he was so ashamed about what had happened to him. And especially during that time, you end up being the one, it's your fault.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

So he didn't say anything. Uh so Kraft got away with it. Oh my gosh. So another red flag because they're still not looking at him and and he's still getting away with these crimes. So how and why is the biggest question for me. And they couldn't have known because he had spent so much time living a double life that he was able to convince anybody that he was even in their sights that he was just this good guy.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

I mean, I can only think about Dahmer.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one was crazy, by the way. Okay, so um, by the time investigators finally caught Kraft, they believe they were looking at more than a decade's worth of murders. Some victims could be tied to him through photographs, others through fingerprints, fibers, and personal belongings, and some through entries in his infamous scorecard. As Randy Kraft's life appeared to be settling into a routine of bars, relationships, and odd jobs, bodies were beginning to appear along Southern California highways. I'm only going to go through some of them. I will list the names that of the gentlemen that he was convicted of um their murders. The 16. Yes. Uh-huh. But the ones that played a significant role in his arrest, I'm gonna highlight a little bit more, you guys.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

So wait, when you say along the highways, like so we're talking about going up north up to as far as I can see, um, in Southern California that we would be related to is going to be like Castac Lake area. And then all the way, he doesn't really go deep into like San Diego County. Okay. We see a lot more that maybe right to oceanside because there's so much military presence. The main thing that we're gonna see that is linked in his victimology is that these are young, attractive men. Many of them were Marines or were people that were into that marine persona, or they were just out near a marine base. He really did focus his attention there.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

So, do you think that that was also because he was upset that he was generally discharged?

SPEAKER_01 31:45

So, what it ends up being is something called a rotophenophilia.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

And that is when you get sexual pleasure from hurting somebody or murdering them.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

So that he so what ends up happening with somebody that has that is that they find certain things about their victims attractive. Him, they're normally very attractive men. And when they have that, that's what triggers him. And especially for Randy Kraft, because he was triggered by the fact that they possessed something that triggered homosexual tendencies in him, which he was unhappy with. Right, that's what made him go after them. So, like it was the high and tight. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, I would imagine, tied to that. Yeah. So um 1971, Wayne Duquette, he's 30 years old. He's a bartender at a local gay bar and was found near Ortega Highway. His body was found naked and so badly decomposed that a definitive cause of death, death could not be determined. So it was uh listed under acute alcohol poisoning.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

He was last seen at the stables bar in Sunset Beach, where he was a bartender. Um, his car was found in the stables lot. Kraft at the time worked at the Broomhilda, a gay bar that was next to the stables. Where are these places now?

SPEAKER_03 33:19

It makes me sound like they're in in Sunset? Yes, right. Exactly. Like that there's only one place for them to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

I mean, there's a couple because they got torn down like a decade ago. There was um, I forget it had an Irish name, I would think. But there was Oh, I remember that place.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Yeah, I don't remember what it was called. I can't think of it now either, but we we went there when uh we first opened uh in SEAL, it was still open.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was a frequent Stables customer, and stable is the very first entry on his scorecard. Oh, really? So prosecutors claim that Duquette was the earliest victim of craft.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Or, I mean, he didn't start keeping his list until then, but either way.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah, yeah. Edward Daniel Moore found December 1972. He was 20 years old. He was a Marine found in Orange County. Evidence from this later linked craft to his killing. He was last seen leaving his barracks on December 24th, 1972. His body was discovered near the 405 freeway in Seal Beach. And like most of the bodies in this case, was thrown out of a moving vehicle and ducked on the side of it.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

I was actually gonna ask how do we think that it got there, but okay, so they all have signs of being thrown at a high rate.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

So he ditched them on the on-ramp of a lot of the um Jesus. It wasn't the till sites, but that's where he that's where they would be found. Right. Either that or like rural dirt roads.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Much like he was probably gonna do with the guy in from the opening.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

That was in his car. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

I mean, he was that that was right near Mission Viejo near San Juan Capistrano or take a highway. Yeah, yeah. So um, let's see, the autopsy showed that he had been bound, beaten, and strangled. Investigators also noted that there was unusual post-mortem abuse, which tend to be a part of his MO. It where there was post-mortem abuse, but there was anti-mortem abuse, which means that these gentlemen were alive during this. Yes. Um, and then EDM was also on the scorecard. So Edward Daniel Moore.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Um, we're getting your code, yes, Ralph. All right. Uh John Doe in 1973. His body was found to be mutilated prior to being dumped in Huntington Beach. The area where um John Doe's body was found was near a dirt embankment, locally referred to to as Airplane Hill. It's right there.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Do we know where that is? Oh, okay. That's right there. I was just like thinking like it's right there, guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Because now they have the housing track there, but it wasn't there before because there used to be an airplane field right there. Interesting. Yeah. Prosecutors believe that the note airplane hill was tied to him. As well as John Doe's photograph was one of the photographs that was found to be amongst Kraft's possessions at that time, which just tied him to him right before his death. Uh-huh. So they can place him with him, at least in his presence. Keith Crotwell. 1975. He's 19 years old. He disappeared after Kraft approached him while he was with a group of his friends in Long Beach, just drinking at a park. Um drinking at a park. I mean, didn't we all? Yeah, I'm just trying to think of which park that was. I know. Honestly, that's a lot of things. Um so Kraft's neat appearance and his muscle car that he had at the time, which was a Mustang. Cute. Um, made him like an unassuming predator. He lured Crotwell and another boy into his car with the offering of a ride and beer. So two, exactly. Um, after leaving with Kraft, the two young men were given beer and he also offered them Valium, which they both willingly took. Okay. Okay. Didn't have to spike those. Nope. Once they were incapacitated, Kraft circled back around to that same park and threw his friend out of the door because he realized it was he wasn't gonna be able to. Yeah, exactly. He wasn't gonna be able to take care of both right. He chose. Yes. Crotwell's head was later found floating in the Long Beach Marina. His body was not found.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Ever?

SPEAKER_01 37:53

No, not ever. It wasn't found until October 19th, 1975, by some children in the city of Laguna Hills. They found his skeletal remains, of course, minus the skull. His hands were wrapped in a rug in a large pipe somewhere, like just stuffed somewhere. So he had dismembered him in multiple ways. Um, the identified they identified um Crotwell's remains, and this case would mark another encounter with police at Crot as Crotwell's friends were able to identify um Randy Kraft and his car. So the police went to go and um talk to Kraft and ask him, you know, where were you last seen with this boy? Like what happened? And his story was um we went for a drive and I let him drive and we ended up getting stuck in some mud. And since we couldn't get out, this kid ended up just ditching me and leaving me with this car. So I had to hike it to a gas station and call my roommate, who at that time it was his lover, who I'm not gonna get into his relationships because that's all speculation. I want really want to stick to the facts of the case. So he says, and then my roommate had to come get me. And yeah, like that was the last I saw of him. The police really didn't want to believe it, but they did. There wasn't anything that tied this kid to him beyond him giving him that ride. So he as far as they knew, he could have gotten picked up when he left him, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:31

You know, so he was just referring to the relationships as his roommate, yeah, as his roommate, exactly. But these were really like that was he was living with were his boyfriend. They were in a room, okay, got it.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

And at that time, his um his live-in boyfriend, what he actually he was looked at a lot throughout this case, believing that he knew much more than in what he was saying. And he and just like this particular situation, he offered an alibi and cooperated stories that were obviously not true.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

That was my next question was did he did the story get corroborated by yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Just said he had to come and pick him up. Right. Yeah, that he came and helped him out. Okay. So for me, like how again do they not see the red flags and just stay on this guy, you know? But the truth is that they saw pieces of Randy Craft. So nobody actually ever saw the whole picture. Right. Not even really, I'm sure, his lovers, because he did such a good job at leading a whole other life, you know. Yeah. Um, there was Keith Webster, who's 19, found in 1976. Mark Hall, 22, found in 1977. He disappeared New Year's Eve from a party in San Juan Capistrano. Nobody remembers seeing him leave this party. He had some drinks at a first party with his friend because he was out with his friend, and his friend remembers seeing him at the next party that they were at, getting drunk and laying down on a couch. The next thing he knew, he was gone. No one saw how he left. I know it's but everybody's drinking. It's but they were together. They were together, but they were at a party, so they got separated. I'm sure, you know, I'm gonna talk to these people and hit on this car.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

But like you're your homie's like laying down on the couch. Like, you might want to go, like, hey, are you okay, bro? Do you do you want to go? Do you need to go home? We would, but yeah, I don't think this is the 70s. Yeah. This guy's laying on the couch. This guy's going passing out. Like, wouldn't it need you take your friend like home? I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Not if you were, you know, had some cute little young thing in the corner or something. Um, so he was later found on a dirt road in Silverado Canyon, which is like an area of the Saddleback Mountains. Uh, he was nude. His body had been significantly mutilated, and he was um emasculated, as a lot of these young men were. Um, his cause of death was suffocation and acute intoxication. His blood alcohol level was 0.67. Wow. Now, just to be clear, legal limit is 0.08.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

So the only way that it could be that this could happen, because no one could be able to drink that much, somebody was force feeding him alcohol.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

It had to be. Um was this the first victim found emasculated? Or had the had previous ones been? Previous ones have been.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

I just this one was tied to forensic elements. Yeah. So I'm really focusing on that. But other ones just know that it's very gory. He emasculated them. He took souvenirs, left some pieces behind. He burned their bodies. He and some of them, like I said, were anti-mortem and post-mortem. This guy's just such a he's fucked. Um his mouth and throat had been packed with dirt. Like he would have had to over and over follow the dirt, and that's what ended up suffocating him.

unknown 43:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

It's just but this trace evidence became important to the case. What was found around him, so 11 inches from his head were was this like bottleneck from a beer bottle. On that bottle was um type B blood. Okay, so he obviously cut himself with that, but about 20 feet away were also little glass fragments, and the bottom of the bottle, and you could tell because they all were the same makeup, the same glass. They were able to pull thumb a thumbprint off of the bottom and one of the shards of glass. So they have this forensic evidence with them. And they were able to then, once they arrested Kraft, use that. And because blood typing wasn't other the only thing that they could do with blood type was what blood type.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

Blood type. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

And that's it.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Do you know your blood type?

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Yeah, I well do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

Okay. Oh, true.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Yeah, they they have to really find that stuff out. They don't want you to die.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Do you know your blood type? Anyway. I'm a universal donor. Universal donor. My dad's a universal donor.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Yeah. Come on, guys. Let's go. Um, so an NYE New Year's Eve was also found on the scorecard.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

And they disappeared New Year's Eve. So they were prosecutors use that to also tie Hall's murder to Randy Kraft. Um, Scott Michael Hughes, 1978. He was 18 years old, also found. Roland Gerald Young, 1978, 23 years old. He was released from a jail for public intoxication and just disappeared. He was later found murdered after disappearing. I think it was um through Santa Ana jail. He, of course, he had um mutilation to his body, but prosecutors were able to tie him to the case because there was the words jail out.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

So it just that I'm like good, good, um, as you think. Svelte, yeah, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 45:54

I know Svelte. Is that right? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Um, Donnie Harold Chrysle. Um let's see. Keith Anthony Jackson. Both of those were in 1979, June, then August. So he's picking up now. He's getting more comfortable. Uh Gregory Wallace Jolly, September of 1979. He was 19 years old. Jolly was known to wear military-style clothing, though he was never in the military. He did sometimes tell people that he was an ex-marine, though. Even though, of course, he was not. He was found dismembered in Lake Arrowhead. One of the most compelling pieces of evidence that linked Kraft to this case was when they went through Kraft's home, he had trophies or souvenirs from his kills, and one of them was Jolly's sketchbook. And he would not have been without it. Um, investigators believe that they're on the scorecard, the entry Lakes MC referred to Gregory um Jolly. So because he was found in Lake Arrowhead and Marine Corps. So it's God, he's terrible. Um, Jeffrey Sayer, November 1979, he was 15 years old. I'm sorry, how old? 15. 15. Mark Allen Marsh, February 1980, he was 19 years old. Ronnie Eugene Wybee, 1980, and he was 20 years old. Um, he was a Fullerton resident and he was visiting his mom, who lived in Los Alamitos, and he left her to go and have some drinks with his friends at the Sportsman Lodge. Um this was actually a a little bit different because until this case, they believed that all of the all of the cases were related to um like uh the victim was homosexual, so they thought it was like uh not necessarily a hate crime, but they believed that they were all tied into that scene.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

But he was not, he was married, he had children, and he I guess what what actually happened was that his car broke down on the side of the road when he was leaving, and he believed that he was having a good Samaritan come to help him. Really, Kraft picked him up and he murdered him. Right. So um he was later found on the on-ramp on 7th Street. Yeah. So prosecutors argued that the label 7th Street. Obviously, I like it. Oh my gosh, it's getting it's getting easier and easier. Timothy Joseph Mack, 1980, he was 19 years old. Christopher, Christopher Michael Brees, 1981, he was 20 years old. He was a Camp Pendleton Marine. Among the hundreds of photographs recovered from Kraft's vehicle, prosecutors were able to positively identify Christopher Brees as one of the individuals depicted in all of those photos, which there were so many photos, and there were so many that were unidentified because they were in various states of consciousness incapacitated, unconscious, or dead. Yeah. Anyway, so they were able to tie Bright or Brees to him because of that photo being taken of him right before his death. Um, Raymond Arthur Ford in 1982, and then Terry Lee Gambrel, who was the young man that was found in the proper in the passenger seat. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Um now those are just the convicted.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Those are the only ways to know about there are so many more. Yeah. Those are the convicted. There's remember, there's 67 entries just on that scorecard. But that also, to your point, could have just been when that scorecard could have been started at any time. Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that it had to include everything. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

We don't know that everybody's even there.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Um, so now it's time for Bree's Forensic Brief. Yay! So, unlike today's investigators, Orange County detectives at that time couldn't rely on DNA databases. So, in order to solve the Randy Kraft case, they had to puzzle piece together dozens of separate little pieces. Um, these murders lacked consistent manner of death. Some were strangled, some were beaten, some were tortured, some were bound, and some were asphyxiated using various types of objects. Nothing was creating a pattern that would tie all of these victims to one killer. They were all sexually assaulted, they were all young men, there was a um a gay component to it, and they a lot of them were mutilated or dismembered. The police at that time were not working with the advanced technology we are today. They had to rely on their gut instincts and their, you know, deductive reasoning. So they did that individually within their departments, and unfortunately, during that time, departments weren't linked together. But there was interdepartmental cooperation. It just they didn't all have the same MO. So they were tied for a while. Today, the Orange County Crime Lab, even though it's one of the smallest, is probably the most advanced in the nation, more so than the FBI labs, LA County Labs. So we really do have the capability now, and it is because of our innovative work with forensics that the country has what they have. I think that's pretty freaking cool. That is. So um, no single piece of evidence would have convicted Randy Kraft. It was this combined weight of fibers from clothes, from carpets. It was the glass pieces that had fingerprints on them because we relied so heavily on fingerprint analysis, the blood typing, which unfortunately you can say, well, somebody of that blood type was there, and you with the added information and evidence, you can tie them to it. But otherwise, if you just had that, it's not enough to convict. Right. We also had the scorecard entries, which while I'm saying that, you know, 7th Street or EDM, it's actually not just written out in those words, it's something that they had to decipher.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Oh, okay. So I was thinking he was just writing that out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

There, there's things that he had to, it's it's his own form of shorthand. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

Interesting. So that is like gonna be harder to yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

And ultimately, it was the deceased Marine in his passenger seat that really sealed the deal. Right. I mean, without that, we don't know how much how many more there would have been. For real. Yeah, so that's been our first episode of uh Breeze Forensic Briefs because there's a lot. There's so much that they were only able to convict him because they were able to tie, like they found a carpet fiber on somebody, and they thankfully were able to go back to an apartment they shared in Long Beach, and the carpet hadn't been changed, so they were able to connect and find that those were the same carpet fibers, and the same thing with clothing fibers, those were found at another apartment that he had in Huntington Beach. It's just forensics are the shit. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, you do, I do. So uh the trial and sentencing for five years, Orange County investigators assembled a mountain of evidence by the time Randy Kraft went to trial in 1988. Prosecutors, yeah, I know, five years. Prosecutors weren't trying to prove one single murder anymore. They were able to have, you know, where's Joey's little red ties? That's what it had to look like. Because again, like I like I said, they had that scorecard. And while a lot of them are linked here, there are more in Michigan and in Oregon where he visited where he didn't even get touch on that.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

But because of the similarities and because of how big this case was, investigators in Oregon were like, hey, that's super similar to this case and this case that have gone unsolved.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

So they were probably able to be like, oh, like he was traveling at this time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Exactly. Through investigative work. I think that's just amazing because now we have so much at our disposal. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 55:11

But these guys were just out on the streets making actually investigating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

So um, they were trying to convince the jury that one man had spent more than a decade leaving a trail of victims all throughout Southern California, and that the evidence that they found after a routine traffic stop could finally connect them all. By the time the trial began in 1988, Orange County Superior Court before the judge, Donald McCartin, investigators had assembled one of the largest serial murder prosecutions in all of California history. The money that they spent on this was it was the most that they'd ever spent on any trial ever. Um, the prosecution called nearly 160 witnesses and introduced more than a thousand pieces of evidence. Jesus. That's how much this guy left behind: hair fibers, blood evidence, fingerprints, photographs, victims' belongings in his possession, travel records, gas receipts, the scorecard. Right. And then the belt used to strangle Terry Gambrell. Now the defense strategy, because you know, he does have people that are defending him. He actually wanted to take the stand. He wanted to try to convince everyone that he was just a nice guy.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

Yeah, because that's what he's done his whole life is try to convince everybody that he's a completely different person. It's the truth. And he's like, well, I've gotten this far. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

I can probably convince it again. And and try they did. Yeah. Because at that time we have to remember that Patrick Kearney and William Bonin are both out on the street killing people in, well, not in the same manner, but they're also serial killers that are on the loose end. So he was like, Oh, it's not me. You know, it had to have been killed. There's other killers out there, yeah. Yes. There was even a serial killer, and dang it, I wish that I remembered his name. I'm so I'm real bummed about this. That he turned himself in and was like, listen, no.

SPEAKER_03 57:24

Okay, no.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

Southern California. He turned himself in and was like, Yeah, I did these, but that's fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Like, no, he was like disgusted.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

He like just was like, I'm gonna make sure that you know that like I'm not responsible for any of that. Yes, yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

I will, I will try to, I will find it and I will link it because the case is wild. Like the fact that I I'm I'm messed up and I murder some people, but I'm not the stuff that he did to these young men, yeah, was horrific for everybody. I mean, not just them, but the people that had to investigate this case. These men, the detectives on this case had never dealt with anything like this before. And they didn't know about, yeah, erotico phenophilia. Phenophilia. There we go. It's a mouthful. Um, they didn't know about that, so they had to watch videos about this stuff and like become an sorry.

unknown 58:19

Stop.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

I tried not to. Wait, what'd you say? That's what she said. I tried really hard not to.

unknown 58:26

Stop.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

But they, I mean, I couldn't have I couldn't imagine these this case had to ruin their lives forever. Um, so they tried to say that the case was largely circumstantial, circumstantial. And you know, there's other serial killers that were responsible, and no one single piece of evidence was there to prove that he had committed each killing. It wasn't one thing that tied them, but that didn't matter. They were able to take everything and really just drive it home. So after a 13-month trial, 13 months.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

But even just to get all the thousand pieces of evidence. I mean, it would have to take a long time. But he also loved it. Yeah, he loved every minute of it. Absolutely. And he never once admitted guilt. It was always not guilty. Yeah. How can they get that?

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Yeah, yeah. Come on. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 59:24

What did you find him on the side of the road, good summary, and picking him up? Yeah. Stop. I was bringing him to you. What are you talking about? I don't know how I got these photos. They were just put there in my trunk.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

I can't love what he was trying to say to get his way out of these nonsense. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

So May 12th, 1989, the jury found Kraft guilty of 16 counts of first-degree murder, one count of sodomy, and one count of emasculation. When Randy Kraft was finally sentenced to death in 1989, one of his murdered victims still had no name. That John Doe. So 22 years later in 1995, through forensic DNA, they were able to identify Kevin Clark Bailey, a 17-year-old runaway, and finally give a name to the one unsolved name listed in the because he was convicted of his death.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

There are other John Doe's that are affiliated with his victims, but as far as this, this is I mean none of the convicted. None of the other convicted. I am very happy for the advances that we have. For me, the red flags continually that came up, it it is saddening. I'm angry. I'm so many things. And like, how long would it have gone on if he hadn't been drunk that he wouldn't have saved until he was caught or dead?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

There's no way.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

And I'm just upset because what when you get the description of these young men, young men, they're not really big men. Okay. They uh range from 5'5 to 5'10. They're all about 150, 160 pounds. So he really did go after men that he knew that. He could overpower. Yes, he could overpower. They were runaways, they were um draft dodgers, they were Marines that were that had gotten separated, stuff like that. He knew that they were vulnerable people. Yeah. Just easy targets. Yep. Yeah, that's that's my heavy case. He sucks. Yeah. He sucks. Um is he dead? He's dead. Yeah. What happened to you? Yeah, he did he die in prison?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

He's probably dead, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Nope. He's still alive. He's still alive. He's 81 years old.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

81. I guess he's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

Still incarcerated at San Quentin.

unknown 1:02:05

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

It's not like they can release him on like age or anything like that. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Or compassionate release, fuck off. Like everyone died in prison. But oh, I hate that he's still alive. Yeah. That's crazy. I hope it was a terrible time in prison so far. He suffers an awful, awful, horrible, debilitating death.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:24

I mean, I don't know. It's hard to say, but I'm sure he did not have a blast. Yeah. Was he? You know? I don't think that they're just partying in there. It's not quite a good thing. He's what he's used to. You know?

unknown 1:02:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

Oh, yeah. It's his free lifestyle. He can't like I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

He's out in the discos, you know, like picking up, you know, hotties and like having a whole great time. And like now, you know, he's stuck in a cell and everybody in there is they're all really bad, just like really bad. And yeah, I don't think that there's a friend to be made.

unknown 1:03:08

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

No, I think he's absolutely psychotic, and I'm sure the people there are even like, whoa, that guy's fucked up. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully he's.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

If other serial killers are like, yo, yeah, you're bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

You're real bad. Hopefully he's spent a lot of time on his own.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Is Kipper in San Quentin too? Uh I don't know. I don't remember. I know that that's where Bonner went, right? Yeah. Um this is like the fourth time we've mentioned Sen Quentin already, and we're only nine episodes in.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

Well, there's some baddies. Yeah. Not baddies in that sense. Not real baddies. Like actual bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

Yeah. No, they're really cool guys there.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:46

Yeah. Yeah. So to the victims. To the victims. The many, many victims that we didn't even, you know, have the opportunity to um identify, and they still have it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

And they're all worthy of being identified.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

Absolutely. Keep working on that. Well, that was the that was the story, yeah. Are you guys ready to close the tab on tonight's gate? I sure am.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Don't like it. Don't make sick.