"The Making of Betty Broderick" (Part 1)

In Part 1 of our two-part series, Joey, Bri and Rachel dive into the infamous Betty Broderick case, exploring Betty and Dan’s early relationship, the sacrifices made to build their life together, and the cracks that began to form behind closed doors. As betrayal, resentment, and conflict escalate, the story moves toward a breaking point that would forever change their lives.

⚠️ Trigger Warning: Domestic conflict, emotional abuse, infidelity, divorce, family conflict, harassment, stalking behavior, and psychological distress.

🍸 Cocktail: Strawberry Shrub🥤 Bri-Lixer: Strawberry Shrub Mocktail

🎙️ Subscribe to SoCal Slaughters for new episodes covering Southern California’s most infamous crimes, mysteries, and killers. New episodes every Sunday.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Hey guys. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Joey.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

I'm Bree. I'm Rachel.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

And this is SoCal Slaughters. So what's up?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Um, very exciting podcast today. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

It is pretty exciting. Yeah.

unknown 0:44

Part one.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yeah. Part one of two. Our finale. The wrap-up of our final episode of our first season.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Um that's crazy that we've like.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

How's it been this long already? I know. This will be the 11th. This will be 12th. 12? 12. 12. Yeah, 12.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Oof. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

12A, 12B.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

How far we've come.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Like, I didn't even realize that it's June. Yeah. Because so much time has just flown by.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

It really, like, yeah. I mean, we didn't remember when we were like driving home from Crime Con in the car, and I was like, oh shit, it's June.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

It's June. It was literally June 1st. We were like, Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

It's kind of crazy. But you know, we did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yep. Lots of growth. So far. Lots of growth. We've only gone up.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah. You know. Yeah. Which is come a long way from awful audio. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Listen, trial and error. Trial and error. Like maybe one day.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yeah. Like maybe one day we'll revisit those episodes so that you can maybe hear them.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

But well, you know how we're going to do that? The same way we do everything with support from our audience. Yeah. Like, follow, subscribe. Yes. So we can get um some advertising support.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah. I mean, we do, we obviously we have a lot of plans to replace some equipment that we would like to do at some point, which is going to be really great. Um, we're doing it little by little, um, though. We'd like to get off of recording on our phones someday. But again, thank you guys so much for all the support so far. It's been amazing and we're just so grateful.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

So grateful for everybody. Every, every single kind word, every I know some people don't like critiques, but honestly, they're all very helpful and welcome to us because we need to know. Yeah. We want to know.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I would rather know.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

I would much rather know. Definitely. So it's good. It's been great. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we are going to have uh the next two episodes based around a kind of an icon, honestly. Um, globally, really, definitely uh in California. Um, we decided to end with um the story of Betty Ann Broderick. Um she actually um has been in the news recently. I'm not gonna spoil it for you why. Uh but yeah, I mean, we thought what a great way to end it.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Tune in next week and you'll know.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah, exactly. Good point. Um, but yeah, I mean, ultimately uh it had to be two parts. Her story is very um long. Uh it's very bulky. Um, and there's a lot to it. And I wanted to make sure that you guys took the ride that I had to take.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

In order to get you this information.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

In true podcast kit style. Yes. We're going to take you for a nice little ride.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yes, definitely. Um, and I'm I I felt like I I we have a really it's a serious timeline here. Like, I mean, I went month by month almost, like within the situation of you know, this marriage, really. Yeah. So um there's gonna be a lot of dates coming at you. You don't have to really write them down or anything, but take notes.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Yes, right. Um, but for the cocktail that I chose, um, it does come from one of the adaptations of said story about Betty Broderick. Um, I did a lot of research, obviously, for this. I actually watched the entire court case of um this uh of this trial um of and everything. The whole all it's like six hours long. Um I'm sure obviously it was much longer than that in real life. You watched it more than a lot of time. I watched it more than one time.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I made it one and a half hours in and I it was torture. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yeah, but it's Betty, you know, though the whole entire thing is Betty's story, Betty um on the stand. Obviously, they cut to like I watched her daughters on the stand. Well, just Kim actually. Um, I don't think no, no, yeah, Lee was on the stand too. So I watched both her daughters, um, doctors, friends, you know, everything about, you know, their aspects of the situation, but the majority of it was Betty. Yeah. So most of everything that I have is in Betty's own words.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Um, however, there were a lot of adaptations that have happened over the years, which, you know, we'll get into later. Um, and I did watch a few of those. Um, well, actually, the only one I really watched was Dirty John season two. Um, and in that uh series, which is great, it was very informative and very close. Yeah. It was, it was pretty close, honestly, to the the real story. Um, they uh she makes a strawberry shrub for um her girlfriends when they're sitting around. And I just thought it was kind of a cute little, like, first of all, cute, a shrub. A shrub is cute. A shrubbery. So apparently a shrub is um like an old, very older, like old school homemade cocktail where you actually cold macerate um fruit of your choice. It doesn't have to be strawberry, you can be any fruit that you like in the fridge for like a you know, maybe 24, 48 hours. Um, and then it becomes its own syrup. Uh, and then you add apple cider vinegar to it. Like just literally apple cider vinegar. Like that's it. Fermentation. Yeah. And then you just let it kind of, you know, mature, I guess, like at least 24 hours, but longer also is good. Um, and then you just add a little spirit, whatever you like. Um, add whatever other kind of um, you know, garnish or uh muddle if you want, you know, to muddle something extra in there. I was kind of intrigued about by it, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

I mean, that that sounds like a whole other venture for you since you're not big on baking. I don't do anything. Or molecularly structuring to do anything.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah. So I was like, I'm gonna try this. Yeah. Let's see what happens. So I did it.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

I'm excited to try it.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Um, it turned out, I think it turned out okay. It looks real pretty. It does look pretty. I love that. Um, and I went with gin, um, sticking with the housewife stigma and a little basil and a little strawberry. So I love it. Yeah. Let's check it out. Cheers. Cheers completely.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

And cheers, ladies, to our the end of our first season. I love you guys so much. Love you guys.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Love you guys. Thank you guys. Yeah, literally, thank you so much. It's been a blast. Oh, I didn't even need any like yeah. I was worried that it might need a little like extra sugar.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

No, this is perfect.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

But actually, like I like, I don't mind it not being oh, I don't like sweet drinks. Yeah. So um, you definitely get that uh little vinegar, um, like apple cider vinegar-ish, but it's that strawberry syrup kind of yeah, it's pretty good. Loving it. Cheers again.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

I can handle all this basil. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Yeah, you can put it in. Like if you want.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Okay, don't judge me. I just I'm gonna get the full effect.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

I got you. I'm just gonna mash it with my yeah, I'm just gonna muddle it in there too.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

I don't want any little bits, and then I just have basil in your teeth.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, the basil will open up though.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Mm-hmm. Okay. That's my smack. I had to give it a little smack.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

I know.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Okay, so should we get into it? Yes. Yes, please. I'm excited about the story.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I purposely did not watch Dirty John.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

You didn't do it yet. I didn't. Oh, I didn't do it either.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

But every time you brought it up, I had no idea you were talking about. So I like just want to be surprised at that.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Well, because Dirty John originally was the story of um actually a completely different story than I love that story too, which we should definitely. We will do that one too. That's why I don't want to give too much away about it. But it's actually an originally the season one, it wasn't even like called season one, it was just a limited series called Dirty John. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Because it was based off of uh LA Times New York Times. No, LA.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

It was an LA story, yeah. Because it was that was its own story, and then like a while went by, and then all of a sudden they decided to do Dirty John season two, the Betty Broderick story.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

And I was like, So they're two separate seasons.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Completely separate. Yeah. Yeah. The other one took place in Newport. Yeah. Yeah. On Balboa Island. Balboa, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

We'll get to that one.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Is that the one you said that your mom? No.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

No, no, no. That's a different one. This is my mom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

This is the one.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Okay. So just a little intro to that. Yeah. So um my mom was uh used to pick up women from uh prison uh and like take them to uh she was in like a uh she did like benevolence for like a local church. Um and so they had this big program. Program, thank you. They had this program where they would um pick up women from that were getting released from prison and then bring them to the church and they had this special area where they could like get donated clothing um and like some food, um, you know, and like little things like that so that they would be prepared um for like their first job interview. Like without, you know, like trying to like re um reintroduce them into life and society and try to get them like on like their feet, you know, yeah, or at least a a good foot forward.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Um, and obviously she didn't pick up Betty because she didn't get out, but spoiler alert. Um, but she when she would go to the prison while she was waiting um and stuff, I guess like somehow she had conversations with Betty. I mean, which I thought was interesting because I'm like, I don't know how you can have conversations with because inmates.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

You have to, you can't just be waiting. Yeah. You have to go, I'm sure. Yeah. And if you're a part of a church program or something like that, because when you get picked up, I didn't, I mean, I know in the movies they're like, okay, just go. Yeah, get out. Like, but I don't believe that that's right because you're not allowed to be in contact with any felons or anything like that. So I would imagine that they would, I don't know. Yeah, it seems right that you would have to have some sort of clearance in there or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Yeah. I mean, as far as I know, like she like she talked to this lady. The only reason that I know is because when she was in, she came to visit, and um, I always try to get her on to like something to watch, you know, like think like because she doesn't really get into that stuff on her own. And I'm like, oh, watch this or check this out or whatever. And so one time I was like, Oh, you might like this. Um, uh, and I'd already seen it, obviously, and it was season two of um Dirty John. And she was, um, I put it on for her before she went to sleep, and she was like kind of up watching for like almost like a lot, I mean, like hours, you know, watching this. And then the next day I was like, Hey, what did you think? How did you like, you know, that show or whatever? How far in did you get? Did you fall asleep? Whatever. And she was like, No, she's like, I really liked it. She goes, It's so strange. Um, you know, I I I when I used to go to pick up women from the prison, I there was this woman, and the story was so is really similar, I feel like, um, to to the story in here. And um, it's funny, her name was Betty too. And I'm like, mom. That's the same person. She's like, she was like, What? Like, I was like, Yeah. And she's like, she just could not believe it.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Like it just dawned her that she was transporting prisoners who are criminals.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

This is the same person that you probably talked to, you know? And she was just like, oh my gosh. And she was just like talking to me about it for a little bit, but I thought it was funny. I'm like, that's pretty cool though, you know, she's talking to Betty.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

But I mean I mean, it's pretty cool that she also took the time out of her life to do that. To do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

And it did help a lot of people, you know, too. So um, but either way, that was what you were referring to, yeah. Um, but no, separate season from season one to season two. Yeah, yeah. It actually just left Netflix though, unfortunately. So uh, but it's gotta go somewhere. Usually another network picks it up. So um, but yeah, it was it's it's a really it was a really good, it was a great both of them were really good, to be honest. But um, so let's just start.

unknown 13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

So we're gonna start in October of 1965. I'm not gonna be like, oh, she was born, blah, blah, blah. No, we're gonna start when she's 17 years old. Okay. Yeah, okay. Betty Ann, she was born okay, she was born Betty Ann Biseglia, but now she's 17. Um, and she was attending a senior class party during football weekend at Notre Dame with one of her friends.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Not too shabby.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Football weekend at Notre Dame is huge. It's like a full production. It's annual, it's an annual thing. They play USC. It's like the thing, the thing to do. And like this wasn't just any uh uh senior class party. It wasn't like casino night at the Elks Lodge, like mine. Um it was like Jerry Lee Lewis was performing live like there at this senior class party on football week. Like it was massive, and so it was like chaotic still. It was very loud. I mean, Jerry Lee Lewis is chaotic in himself, but um it was still like uh like high class-ish. So like they still had like 60s. Yeah. They said like the long banquet tables, everybody could have a chair and they were covered with like white tablecloths, right? So um across the table from Betty sat Dan Broderick. He was 21 at the time. Okay. At some point in this chaotic party, uh, Dan asks Betty if he could borrow a pen. Okay. Okay. Like, what do you need a pen for? I don't know. Right? Um bring your own pen. Like, hey, yeah, you're not gonna be able to do that. I don't understand what's it. I don't know what's going to happen right now, but you don't have one, and that's weird. Um But instead of taking notes, which I guess she thought he was gonna do at a party.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

I don't know. Um She's a senior in high school. Okay, I get it. Um not she's not, but either way. Oh, I thought she was a senior. She's 17, but she's not. She's in she's in college. But um wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Oh, I thought it was okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Never mind. But so he decided to write on the tablecloth. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

So we got a bad boy. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yeah, it was all senior. Now you're vandalizing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yeah, we got a bad boy on our hands here, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. So he writes down Daniel T Broderick the third. M D. Oh. And then in parentheses, A. A. She's like, A. Yeah. What does A stand for?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

So he said the A stands for almost.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

So he's almost a doctor.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

He wasn't a doctor yet, but he had planned to.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I was gonna say 21 and a doctor is a little suspicious. I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah, right, Did he?

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Well, she's 17 and not in high school. I don't know. Um, he was actually completing his pre-med undergrad there at Notre Dame. Okay. That's nice. Yeah, really. Yeah. Um, so Betty was intrigued, you know, and then she thought that was like yes. Yes, and he's gonna be a doctor. Yes, and he was good looking. Okay, good looking guy. She thought that was funny and charming that he did that, you know. She didn't think like, okay, this guy's a criminal.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Um the bar is low. Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, that's true. But Betty didn't go to Notre Dame. She didn't even live in Indiana.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

She was from the Bronx, New York. And she was attending College of Mount St. Vincent, studying early childhood education.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Where's Mount St. Vincent? Is that in? It's in the Bronx.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Oh, it's okay. Because she's not actually from the Bronx, she's from Eastchester, but she at this time was from the Bronx because the Bronx is where the college was that she went from.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Okay, today, years old, when I found out there's an East Chester and a Westchester. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah. Um, Italian Catholic family, like very. Um, and then side note also, um Daniel Broderick's family is uh Irish Catholic. So have fun with that.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Um goes together. Yeah, very well. Just like magnets. Um, so the two began corresponding because they don't live near each other, right? It's the only way that you can do it. I mean, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

I want letters.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

So for the first year, their relationship existed mostly through letters and telegrams.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

I love that. Telegrams were texts.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

That was text messages in the 60s.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

For real. So cutie.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Um, so then uh after 1966, that was the first year of their relationship. So we're like around 1967-ish here. Uh Dan graduated uh his undergrad at Notre Dame and he was accepted to Cornell University Medical College. Nice and moved to New York.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Yeah. So now they're they both live in New York. They're obviously able to start dating each other in person for the next couple of years. Um, and so the relationship eventually became serious. And she's now of age. Right. Yeah, she's 18 at this point, thankfully. After, you know, a little the first year of them dating in person. So around after the second year to the third year of their relationship, they started discussing marriage. Dan really, really wanted to marry her.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

He kept bringing it up. Um, it was a big thing. But Betty was like, had one condition. She was like, I do not want to get married until I have my degree.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah. Good for you, girl.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah. So they continued to just date, you know, seriously date. Um, and then throughout college, Betty worked all the time. Okay. Okay. Uh, Dan did not work. He was a full-time student.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Didn't work. Um, so most of the spending money that they used when they would go out on dates or whatever came from Betty's paychecks. You're literally telling my story. I think I'm gonna be telling a lot of people's story out there, to be honest, as you will you will find out. Um, so even this early on, she's helping support this future that they both are like envisioning together, right? I mean, she's assuming that they're gonna end up getting married.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

The idea on her.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Of course. He's like, he wants to marry her, so he's telling her all the time, like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be like this, and we're gonna have that, and we're gonna da da da da blah, blah, blah. I'm sure. You know, it's just nonstop promises. Per usual, I'm assuming, as that things go. Um, okay, so Betty graduated early. So instead of graduating in June or July or whatever, she graduated in February. Um, so she was uh comfortably secure in a teaching job, and um, she decides to marry Dan on April 12th, 1969. Okay. Okay. They honeymoon in St. Thomas.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Cute.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

But almost immediately things begin to change.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Why is that always what we say in these stories?

SPEAKER_00 20:42

As soon as I get married, the second I got a ring on my finger, stuff started to change. All of a sudden, control. I've never been married because of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

So Dan begins taking control of the finances, which are again our finances, correct. Yeah. Um, control of the future, control of, you know, any of their plans that are gonna be moving forward. And like soon after they arrive home from the honeymoon, um, Betty discovers that she did, in fact, get pregnant on the honeymoon. And the newlyweds move into Dan's dorm room.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Ew.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Yeah. Is that a thing? Yeah, yeah. He had his dorm room and yeah, they're married, so boom, they move in. Didn't go.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I don't know. That's super cool, though.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

I think pregnant and living in a dorm room. Isn't that the dream?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

I mean, that's that's she's in it to win.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

I mean, at this point, how are you how how are you not? I mean, you have to, you gotta, you gotta go full bore here. You got a baby on the way.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I feel I feel as if that's what builds a marriage. You know, you go through hard times together, build absolutely together, especially at their age.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Betty continues working every single day. Single day. You know, she's going to her teaching job, doing her stuff, um, all the way through her pregnancy until January 24th, 1970, which is her last day of work because that's the day her daughter was born.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

I was gonna ask, is her daughter born? Yes, because that timeline adds it.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

That is the day that Kim was born. Yes. Not even any time.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah. Well, I guess there's nowhere to nest because you're living in a dorm room. It is a nest.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

I'm assuming it wasn't a shared dorm.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Uh no, he did have his own space. So we had at least at the very end. So they have their own space. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Um, so after the baby's born, um, Betty decides that she is not going to go back to her teaching job because childcare is just too expensive. They can't afford it. You know, they're living on her income so far, evidently. Um, and uh she decides that she's gonna shift gears and become a nanny because this allows her to bring Kim with her.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Oh, Jesus, that's so smart. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

But at this point already that the sacrifices have begun.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yes. So 1970. But wait, what is he doing? He's going to school. He's still not working?

SPEAKER_02 23:07

No, he's in med school.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Med school is like there's plenty of doctors that are in med school. He's not working.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

He does not work at all. Not a day at all. Then 1970, he graduates med school.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Okay. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

So Betty assumes.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

So now he is an actual now he has his MD.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

No more A. Okay. Yeah. Uh so Betty finally is like, love it. Great. Boom. Let's go. Get to work. Yes. Like, we're gonna find it. Where's that doctor salary? Yeah, like life's gonna get easier here. Let's let's hit it, right? But instead, Dan comes home and announces that he has a new plan. Now Dan wants to become a lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

No. You just got your MD.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

You can't change majors up and get your degree. Yeah. Is this like trying to get an egot, but you're trying to get all these major careers?

SPEAKER_02 24:03

At this time, medical malpractice law was very up and coming. Okay. Oh, okay. So most people who practiced medical malpractice law were few and far between because again, it was up and coming. But they also weren't doctors. Oh. So thinking about the idea of being able to understand this and understand this and bring them together, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Could be That's a great idea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah. So that's where his head was at. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

And this is what he I get. I get it.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

This is how he sold Betty on this idea.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

I mean, yeah, let it go.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I just sold you guys.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

So I mean, how long does that take? After you've already gone through school, how long does it take to get your lawyer, lawyer doctor? Because it's a doctorate.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

So you're getting three years. Oh, is it only three? I thought it was like eight.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Well, no, because he's already gone through. Yeah, all that stuff is done. Oh, okay. So now um he gets accepted to Harvard Law School.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Right? I mean, he went to Cornell, he's got an event. No, this guy's a catch. Yeah. So he gets accepted to Harvard Law and the family relocates to Cambridge, Massachusetts. Yes. So the family relocates to Cambridge, Massachusetts. They move into a basement apartment in a near to the school town called Somerville. Okay. They don't have a car.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Um, they still have very little money because Dan has still never worked. Uh, and all that Betty was doing was raising a child and working.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

How the fuck do they get around without a car? It it's snowing. Yeah. It's horrible weather over there.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

So this is why they moved to Somerville. So Somerville is like a pretty, at this time at least, I don't know, can't tell you about Somerville today. Don't know anything about Massachusetts. But at this time, it was a pretty rough neighborhood.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Okay. I mean, not like, but I mean for them, you know? Um, so the only reason that they did it was because A, they could afford this basement apartment in a rougher area near the college, and then Dan could walk to school.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Or I guess he had like a moped or something. Awesome. Yeah. Whatever. He could get there anyway without a car. So um Betty works now at a nearby daycare during the day that she can walk to and can also bring in.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

And then can her.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

So that was perfect. It was like, I think there was like a little Catholic, like Catholic school daycare that was like right nearby. So she was able to walk there and start work. And then in the evenings, uh Dan would come home and you know, study. And uh she'd put the baby down and then she would go to work um in the evening at Lord and Taylor department store.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Oh wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Uh and at this point, regardless of two jobs, whatever, uh, they're living below poverty line and like hundred percent. Literally living on food stamps.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

This is what it was like when I had Zoe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

So it was rough. 100%. Like, I mean, full on, like this is what we do to get by, but they're getting by, right? All right, so 1971, their daughter Lee is born.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Baby number two.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

So he just comes home for studying and sex. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

So uh at this point, Dan's grandmother is like, okay, let me give you this car. So he got two kids. He got two kids. Here's the car.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

So does he use this to go to um to school and she still has to walk? Well, with this.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

This actually was a major upgrade for them, and they were allowed and able to move farther away into a nicer area. Oh, good, good, good. And get an apartment that was ground level.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Okay. So that was the whole that was huge. They were like, now he can take the car and go to school. Um, and they don't have to live in Somerville. So they move into this nicer, not nice, nice, but a nicer, normal, like life area. Um, they live move into this ground floor apartment, and it's a place where um mothers are not concerned about dropping off their children at this apartment.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Oh, okay. So she was watching kids at her now.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

She can.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

So before she worked at a daycare because obviously rough neighborhood. Now she's got this better apartment, she's got uh a better, you know, place neighborhood she's living in. So now she can run a childcare from home. Okay. Because now she has two kids. She's like, I want to take these kids with like you come to me. One is one. Getting one kid out the door is hard enough. Yeah, now you bring your kids to me and we're gonna we're gonna make it work. So she opens up this like little running daycare thing in this little apartment that they have now. Um, and you know, it's great, it's fine, it's it's going well. But at the same time, being, you know, the way that she grew up, Italian Catholic, you know, family home, her parents had instilled in her that like being a housewife, being a mother, being a wife, these are the most important things that you'll ever do in your life, right? Um, and it's true though. Keeping up appearances is also very important when you're doing this. So, like in all aspects of this, never show that you're struggling, never show that you're like upset, never this, be supportive. Look, look the right way, make sure you're still, you know, taking care of yourself, all this, right? And at this time, also, what was very popular and up and coming was Tupperware parties.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Oh, yeah. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

And Avon. Uh-huh, Avon lady. Yeah. So on top of running the staycare, she also was still trying to be the perfect hostess. She would throw um Tupperware parties and try to make sure everything looked perfect and was perfect. Um, and also at the same time, making some money.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Can I just say that this reminds me of what you would be like if you had children?

SPEAKER_03 30:11

No.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yeah. Well, yeah, no, in a whole other bizarro world. Cause you're so put together and you if you are a free hostess. It's so true. It's so true.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I mean when you come over.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, okay. Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

I'm in my pajamas all day long, otherwise, so we wouldn't know. I don't know if I were there looking like this.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

I did like the entire day.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Look like this when I wake up.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Um, no. Um, and if I had children, it would be way worse. But either way, this is working well for Betty. She's finding a way to kind of be this woman that she wants to be, with still not being the woman that she wants to be.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Um, and again, you know, finding a way to keep the family afloat while Dan pursues yet another degree. 1972, okay. Dan is now in his um uh completed uh completing his second year of law school before his third year of law school, and it's summertime. And when you are in law school between these two years, you're expected to work in the summer at like an externship. Yeah, an externship, um, uh a clerkship, whatever, right? So that's what you're supposed to do. So he applied to a couple of them and he accepts a summer clerkship um and travels to California. And so he brings the family with him. He specifically, yeah. So he specifically wanted this one in California because it was with a malpractice law firm in Los Angeles. So knowing that this is what he wanted to do, he's like, I'm gonna go here. I wanna learn what I can. It's in LA, whatever. Where we sue everybody.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

California is way better than New York.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Well, they're yeah, and they're in Massachusetts, which is all it's also we're very litigious here as well. Yeah. Um, but you know, they don't love Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

I mean, I get it. I can't blame you.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

So they took a day trip. They had uh like a few people that were talking to them about, you know, going to different places, and they took a day trip down to San Diego and they fell in love with San Diego because I mean San Diego's amazing. It's beautiful. Yeah. So once uh they had their love for San Diego already just basically in their bones, he worked the rest of the summer back in Los Angeles, but he spent that summer applying and interviewing at firms down in San Diego. Because either way, he's got to go back to Boston for another year to finish law school and get his degree. But he knows that this is the prime time that if people want to jump on him to start working right away, they'll wait that year, you know? They're they're gonna be ready for him. So one firm in particularly aggressively recruits him. I mean, they're like wooing this family. Um, and that is Gray, Carrie, Ames, and Fry. So they're basically like we got you. Like you go go to Boston, get your degree, finish your last year, and get back here, and you're working for us. So I love this. Yeah. The future suddenly is looking very bright, right? Um, so back in Boston, uh, Betty becomes pregnant again. They're celebrating. Um, you know, she doesn't have very easy pregnancies. All of her pregnancies are like rough, like just constant. This is how I this is how I would be if I had a big job. Just constantly sick, just constantly like low energy, just feeling just absolutely awful the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

And she's taking care of and two other babies and working two full-time jobs, and working to a full-time job.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

She does not stop. Like pregnancy does not equal take it easy, honey, you know. So she uh ends up carrying the baby full term. Uh, and unfortunately, the baby does uh die shortly after birth. Um, and this is a incredibly devastating loss for Dan and Betty. I mean, they are beside themselves. Um, and honestly, like it's it's horrible, but at the same time, they've gone through a lot of, you know, things in these last few years, just with, you know, work and school and kids and traveling and blah, blah, blah. And I mean, their bond is there, but it's probably strained a little bit just from not being able to like, they're working opposite schedules almost. Um, so this actually does kind of bring them their bond just really increases their bond so much together, you know. Um, and still, again, also life does not stop for Betty. She uh gets out of the hospital and immediately next day, right back to work. Women are amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

That's that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

So 1973, he gets his, you know, degree from Harvard Law and the family relocates to San Diego.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

And as promised, Dan starts working immediately.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

He is making right off the bat, he's making around $13,000 to $15,000 a year.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Do we know what that is in today's movie?

SPEAKER_02 35:05

I don't. Um, but it doesn't really matter because none of it's going towards the family because all of his money is going towards his student loans.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

So money remains tight and they remain really basically living off Betty's income. Again. Yes. So um they rent an apartment in Claremont, San Diego.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Uh, and Betty can't teach in California because she lacks credentials, right? She doesn't have her California teaching credentials. So she starts yet another childcare business. And then at night, she works at a near as a hostess at a nearby Black Angus.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Ooh, Black Angus during that time was hopping. It was hopping, and it was open until two. Yeah, because they had a full dance floor.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Yeah, she would not get home until after 2 a.m. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Black Angus, claim jumper, Bobby McGee's. You would go there, you would drink, but they had a full dance floor. Yeah. Full dance floor. That was where you went. I never knew. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yeah. Yeah. So that's why she was like, she was there till almost till 2 a.m. You know, she was like just working and then she would go home, get some rest, get up, back at it.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Um, and literally every dollar still mattered at this point. Um, they lived in this apartment for quite some time, unfurnished. Yeah. Jeez. More room for the kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

So much room for our teams.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

But you know, Dan is working, um, you know, and and they're he's playing paying off his student loans. He's trying to get free from debt, obviously. But at the same time, there's a little bit of money that he's, you know, giving it, you know, putting into the pot here. And eventually they decide to buy some furniture on credit. Because you could do that back then. Yeah. Yeah. Like that was a thing. What was the the commercial? Like rent to own.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Oh, oh, I remember that. Yeah, you could still get furniture on credit. You can still get furniture. I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Like Rent a Center, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Like you could that's renting furniture, renting to own. But you could go to Ashley's or something like that. And they have credit?

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Yes. That's crazy. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

I got a whole living room set from Ashley's like 10 years ago. I had Red Club. On credit? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

So you had to make payments, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's what they did.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

They had like red couches. It was really cute. Oh. Yeah. I missed those.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Well, that's what they did. So they went and furnished their apartment on credit. So they're finally like, yes, comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Is it in Betty's name? I can't. I mean, I don't think she has the income. Yeah. She doesn't know because he's got control of the finance.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Right, true, true. So they're thinking, you know, things are starting to look up, right? Then their apartment building catches on fire.

unknown 37:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Stop. Yeah. With their rented stuff in it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So they lose nearly everything that they just acquired. But an insurance settlement comes in. Oh, nice. Yeah. So, you know, most people you would think would just like replace the belongings that they lost with the insurance money, right? Like just get it back and keep on trucking.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Um, but instead, Betty and Dan put every dollar, every dollar of that insurance settlement toward a down payment on a modest house around the $80,000 range. Okay. In La Jolla. Ooh. Yeah. That's a nice area. It is nice. So this will become known as we continue this story as the Coral Reef House. Okay. Okay. Uh, they take out multiple mortgages on this house.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Not great.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

The furniture debt from the apartment still exists because they didn't pay it off. They used every dollar of their settlement on this down payment. So they're still paying off furniture they don't even have. Yeah. Uh, and that means that they can't furnish their new home. Yeah. Yeah. So for years, the new home is barely furnished. The only thing that they have is their bedroom furniture that they had in the apartment because the uh furniture uh that they lost, uh, the fire mainly affected the living, the common space.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

The furniture that they got. Man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

So they had like beds for the kids, you know, but that's pretty much it. Nothing else. Um, but either way, now they have a house, right? Yeah, yeah. We are. And they have a backyard. Yeah. And what do you think Betty does with that house and that backyard? That's the first thing she does.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

To um daycare for wealthy people.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Yeah, exactly. She set up a daycare in her backyard, and it was very popular with the moms in the neighborhood. So there you go, right? Yeah. So it's 1976 now, and around this time, Betty begins noticing changes. Okay. Dan's working at this firm, right? He's spending more and more time away from home. Yeah. He's got dinners now, right? Yeah. He's got social functions, networking. But he doesn't bring her. She can't, where, how can she go? They don't have they don't have anybody, you know, she's gotta stay home with a kids. Yeah, got it. So fighting begins. Not huge fights, not yet, yeah, but enough for Betty to notice there's a strain, right? So she sees an ad at their church for marriage encounter. Um, so I don't know, like listeners, listeners, what are we, what are we calling you? I don't know. Slotties?

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Slotties. Slots? Slots. Our slots.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

You're such a slot. Um, I don't know. Either way, if you're a true crime fan and you're listening to uh our podcast, yeah, um, you might recognize Marriage Encounter from the Candy Montgomery Betty Gore story. Okay, not a Southern California story, but either way, very popular true crime story. And marriage encounter was a very large part of that story. But if you don't, um, I'll tell you what it is. Uh it's a Catholic marriage retreat, and it was very popular in the 70s and 80s.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

So Betty, of course, took this very seriously. And Dam's damn? No, his name is Dan. Um, how do I not know how to say my own husband's name? Yeah, I was thinking of it. I keep forgetting his name as I'm telling the story too. Like, what's his name? Oh yeah. Oh, it's Dan. Not Babe. So um, Dan seems to just basically like be appeasing her. Uh you have to Like he's reluctant to go. No, he like he didn't want. I mean, definitely he was like, why don't we go, but like he's not gonna do anything. Yeah, I mean, he's uh he's there, but he's like, I'm just doing this because like whatever. And like you have to write each other letters. Like that's like at the end, as you go through all these other things, the a lot, a big thing is is these letters you write each other, right? And uh her letter was like primarily about, you know, the marriage and feeling alone and like um, you know, all the things that actually have to do with their marriage. And his letter was about um his financial goals and how he won't feel happy or fulfilled until he reaches certain goals, right? So it's different, very, very different sides.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

How men and women think.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Yeah, it's true. Um, so whatever the case may have been at this marriage encounter retreat, it worked to some extent.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Because soon after they have their third child, a son called Danny, the namesake. Oh. So um we're at 1978. Okay. Okay. So at this point, they start to begin.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Well then the other two kids are in school now.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Yeah. Okay. Um, so at this point, they begin to discuss Dan starting his own firm. Okay. He had just come off of a case representing a family of one of the victims of the Cleveland elementary school shooting. You know, the I hate Mondays. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

That's on my list.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

So um he just came off of defending one of the families of the victims there. And it made him pretty locally famous around the area. So they decided to like ride that wave while they could.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

So he's being so he is a lawyer, but not necessarily medical malpractice.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

That's where we're headed, basically.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

So that, like obviously, Betty likes the idea of him starting his own firm because she thinks the main culprit in his drinking and his socializing is the firm. Yeah. Um, so she's like, down. Let's do this. Maybe I can get my husband back, and he's gonna be so focused. On this, he's not gonna be able to go out. He's not gonna, he's gonna be so tired. He's gonna just want to come home and we're gonna be happy family again. Everything's gonna be great. And the money's gonna be your money. Yeah. Um, the other thing here is that Dan does want to actually practice medical malpractice. Law. That's what he went to school for. That's what he's been wanting to do this whole time. And um, Gray Carey did not have a malpac malpractice, medical malpractice uh division. Division, yeah. So this whole time he was just doing regular lawyer shit, you know? So if he does this, then he can open a his firm can be a medical malpractice law firm. Oh, that's so smart. So that's where we're headed at this point. Um, but instead of creating more time at home, less partying, um, the pressure actually intensifies for him and it actually leads to him drinking more. Um, and now he's socializing more because he has more networking to do, because he's trying to get, you know, into a successful point in a new firm. So the marriage continues to strain. Now, there are some bright spots within this time frame because um Betty does become pregnant several more times. But again, as we mentioned, she has very difficult pregnancies and she does miscarry a couple of times and has a couple of abortions.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Um, but finally in 1980, their son Rhett is born. Rhett? Rhett. Like Rhett Butler. Yes. And then that's exactly why. Oh, okay. It's Rhett Butler is like Dan's, like, that's his man. That's his dude. Like, that's that's what we're that's what we're shooting for here. Yeah, you know. So um despite years of work, real actual financial success has still remained elusive to them at this point. Um sure, you got a fucking uh buttload of kids. What are you thinking? So it's 1981 and that's where everything changes. Okay. Okay. So this is within this has now been a year, the first year of his firm practice. And and um, and now this money starts to come in. Okay. Like actual income.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

By 1982, they're doing pretty well. Yeah, because it's a great year. Yeah. I mean, yeah, great year. Um, but I mean, yeah, they're like, okay, they're really starting to see like this is this is this is happening. It's all it's all been worth it. Yeah, like this is going good. By 1983, they're looking rich. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Okay, finally.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

They're like they're like, no joke about it, Rich. Yes. Okay. I love this. Dan. Sorry. This is hilarious to me. As many times as I've read this over, it's still funny. Dan starts calling himself. No. I already hate it. Like so bad. So, so bad. I mean, he's calling himself something to just to begin with. Just A. Exactly. Dan starts calling himself the Count du Monet, which is it in French literally means count the money. Yep. Yep. And of course, he buys a two-seater sports car.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Oh, because why not? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

The dream is the dream has arrived. And it's red. Yeah. And that's and that collar is all the way pops. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, we're here. We've arrived. We've arrived at it. So the dream that Betty spent nearly 15 years helping build has finally like paid off. Paid off. She can no more daycares.

unknown 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

No more child cares in your home. Like furniture exists. Yeah, right. Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, like, they actually can sit on a couch. Like, getting the couch was like a big deal. Yeah. Like her, get like when she got her, I mean, that was like, she was so be over the moon to get to get a couch. Um, so it was like amazing. Like, she's just so pumped. She's like, be and she can be like this housewife and mother that like she's comfortable enough being, but also like these kids want for nothing now. Yeah. They have the top, they have everything that they ever wanted. There's no issues. They can have, you know, they can have a freaking uh nanny of their own come in and watch the kids if they need it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

She can unclench.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Exactly. Take a full night's sleep. Yeah. Right. But um success changes Dan. Of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Uh brings it out.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Yeah. Yeah. So this is, I mean, if his is what he's working for, this was gonna come out anyway. Yes, exactly. He becomes more status conscious. He becomes more image conscious, he's less satisfied now with his modest wife, modest family, modest house. He starts criticizing Betty, calling her, quote, fat, old, boring, and stupid. Wow. Yeah. Well, the Count Dumas or Count Dumanet. Yeah, you can't have that. Can't have that. Nope. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

I hate him so much.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Betty assumes that this is a midlife crisis.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Yeah, sounds like it.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

At this time, like that was all the buzz, right? That men are going through these midlife crises. She bought all the books on it. She's reading it up on it. And after all, Dan bought a red Corvette. Yeah, absolutely. Stereotypical. Yeah, stereotypical typical behavior. But she doesn't know that something much bigger than all of this is happening to Dan and to her. So I think we can guess where he's headed. So September of 1983. Okay. Okay. They just made it. They're just rich. Like their new money. They're account due new money. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Um it's Novari.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Thank you. I knew she would know. So Dan decides that he wants to hire an assistant. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Obviously, the workload on his own has become overwhelming. For sure. They're he's very successful at this point if he's making this much money. Obviously, it's like time. Okay. And like Betty's relieved, you know, she thinks like this is gonna reduce his stress. Um, and all of his time spent away from the family will decrease. But then he tells her who he hired. Kimberly. Is her name Kimberly? No. Okay, isn't that their daughter's name? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

So he hires a woman named Linda Kolkina.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Linda. Fucking Linda. So isn't Linda? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

So Linda prior to this had worked at, you know how they have those big office like skyrise buildings? Uh-huh. And when you walk in, uh, there's like a receptionist in the front. That's where Linda worked prior to becoming a paralegal at this medical malpractice firm for Dan Broderick.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

But she was a paralegal.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

No. No experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

I do believe she was um prior to her receptioning, uh, she was a Delta Airline uh flight attendant. Yes. Her skills lie elsewhere. Great, perfect addition. Um months earlier, at a party, Betty had overheard Dan talking to one of his friends.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

And like gushing about how beautiful Linda was. Stop. Yeah. There had been like a couple of possible rumors already that people might have seen them having lunch together. Okay. But there wasn't any real, like valid like actual proof that that had happened. But either way, Betty immediately objects.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

She flips out. She suddenly, of course, is like, you're having an affair with her. Absolutely. And he's like, No, I'm not having an affair with her. Like, she's in, she's she's got a lot, she's smart, you know, she's got a lot of promise. Like, she has experience. But she didn't. Yeah. He also didn't say what kind of experience. No. Um, so she gives Dan an ultimatum. Okay. She says, Linda is gone by October 1st, which she gives him a month, which is pretty that's lenient. I mean, it's giving her an opportunity to secure other work. So Linda's gone by October 1st, or you can get out. Right? Dan refuses, obviously still swearing up and down that nothing's going on with them. And frankly, as as Rhett Butler would say, frankly, if anyone should leave.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

Don't you dare finish that sentence.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

If she's unhappy, she should get out.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

I hate him.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Because after all, it's his house. Get all the way the fuck out.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

So the October deadline comes and goes. So does he. Sorry. I I know every time you start it and then you get it, and then you laugh harder. Um, Linda remains. Yeah. Uh the late work nights start increasing. Work trips begin to arise. He takes Betty on some of them, but some of them he goes on alone. To like Europe and whatnot, right? No. Not yeah. I mean, the first time that they do leave the country, he does take her to Europe. They've been talking about it for years.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

He takes Betty, you said? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

When like they do have they are starting to like do some of the things that they've been talking about doing, you know? He's still appeasing his wife and like being married to his wife during this time. But, you know, a lot of other things are going on that are new. Yeah. So still yet the marriage worsens. The fights become volatile at this point. And she like beat like she gets, she's like, she fights, like she fights. Oh shit. Yeah. So like she would lock him out of the house at night, um, and like break things and throw things at him all the time. And like, sadly, of course, involve the children. Like, okay. That's not that's not good. Yeah, like when he wouldn't be home, like she would sit the kids down and tell them that like they're gonna like they're gonna get a divorce and you have to decide who you want to live with.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Oh, don't do that. Oh yeah. I mean, is it my mom is her name last year?

SPEAKER_02 55:26

This is the story of my literal life. Yeah. So I get it. So basically, you know, it's just getting a little bit toxic. Yeah, a lot of it toxic. A lot of it. Yeah. Um, but Betty also starts to crumble like within herself. Absolutely. And the focus on her appearance becomes all-consuming. Okay. She starts crash dieting. Like eight kids. Yeah. Like literally.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

Um, and you know, she thinks that she's she's comparing herself to Linda. I mean, Linda looks like what Betty looked like when they were young.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

How old is Linda? She's in her early 20s.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, she starts crash dieting. Uh, she starts updating her wardrobe, and this is where compulsive shopping starts coming into play. I mean, I'm all for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

And she's got the money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Yeah, exactly. Um, she changed her hairstyle to something very modern. Um, you know, she's trying to become the woman that she thinks Dan wants. Yeah. But, you know, still around this point, Dan tells her, I can't do this anymore. I want out. Yeah. Fucker. Yeah. All right. So now we're in early November of 1983. Early November. Okay. Dan comes home from work to find that Betty has slit her wrists. The wounds are superficial.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

I wasn't ready. Okay. Went from not escalated quickly. Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

The wounds are superficial and they don't even require stitches or a doctor's visit. But Dan is shaken, like emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Shooketh.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

Yeah. He's crying. He's like freaking out. He bandages her up and he like babies her and he promises that he will not leave. You know, because obviously that's why. Yeah. You know. Now we're at November 22nd.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

So same month. Um, but you know, later in November. So November 22nd, 1983, which is Dan's birthday. So Betty decides that she's gonna get all dolled up and surprise him at the office that day.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

She'd also recently gotten a little advice from friends that are like, become more of a like a presence around the office. Okay. More of like a fixture around there. You know, it might subdue your suspicions, but also kind of gives like a face to the name. Um, you know, just like start to, you know, because before this, she always was with the kids. Now she doesn't have to be some, you know, with the kids so much. And she's like, start showing being around there, you know. Don't pee on your territory. Exactly. So instead, when she gets there, she discovers evidence that will only confirm her suspicions. And it's not gonna be good.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

So the office appears trashed. Like when she gets there, she gets there and it appears like trash, like telltale signs of a birthday party. Oh, okay. Cake everywhere, like drinks, spillage, like those, what are these noisemakers? Yeah. Those, like, you know, birthday cone hats. Yeah. But no one's there. Okay. So she goes over to the receptionist and she's like, What happened with this party? Like, where'd everybody go? And she's like, Oh, um, it wasn't a party, it was just Dan and Linda, and then they left for lunch like a couple hours ago. Betty knows, okay, that it's too late for lunch. All right. Yeah. But she's like, okay, well, um, I'm just gonna, I'll just wait for him, you know, just gonna wait for him. Bold move. Yeah. So she begins like snooping around. Okay. She knows this office. Like she decorated this office. Okay. So she knows technically like what she's what's around, what's there, what changes. So she's like, what changes have been made, you know, since I haven't been around since this happened. You know, she knows like there's a like a bar, like refrigerator, you know, like a mini fridge or whatever, like now. And then she obviously sees that the door to the secondary office has, you know, Linda's name on it. So she decides she's gonna go in. Let's let's just go and like check out Linda's office, you know? So she snoops around in there, you know. They've it's like literally a match, it's like twin offices. So she has like just as big of an office almost as Dan. It's amazing view. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

This is like a 23-year-old girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

And then she sees a picture of Dan on her wall. Linda's wall? Yeah. It's not like a recent picture. Like this is a picture of Dan when he was like younger.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

Just like she was born.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

Hell no.

unknown 1:00:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

Hell no. So uh she goes home. She was born. Yeah. She goes home furious. Oh, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

Out of broke that picture.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

She gets all of his clothes. Mm-hmm. Like his expensive ass custom made suits and shirts. Okay. These are like a lot. She throws them off of the balcony into the backyard and she sets them on fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Okay. Respect. Yeah. I'm making s'mores too.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Uh-huh. Uh, and then some of the clothes apparently don't catch into the fire for some reason. This woman doesn't seem to be very good at starting fires, but I digress on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

Maybe they have fire retardant on them.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Possibly. I don't know. So then she gets some black paint and she throws black paint all over any of the clothing that did not catch on fire. Okay. That night, Dan arrives home drunk, and he was expecting a family birthday dinner.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

Well, you already had your party, sir.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

So and whatever present unwrapped. And instead, he finds a backyard barnfire, right? Uh, he is completely unaware that she went to the office at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

The receptionist didn't tip him off. He never went back. Oh my God. I hate him.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

So he has no idea why she would be in the state at all. And of course, then he's an idiot. He doesn't even get mad. Like he just continues to swear there's nothing going on with him and Linda. He had a deposition, and that's why he wasn't there after lunch. They went straight to a deposition. They got drunk at the deposition. Right. And so, like, he's basically just being like, please, like, I did I like I don't know why. Like, not like just no anger. I mean, your shit's on fire, bro. Like, you know? And so decides to call a truce instead. A truce. Yeah. A truce. Is that how that works? Yeah, evidently.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

So not.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Yeah. So it's 1984 now. Okay. The family decides that they want to search for a bigger home. Dan's still on the mission uh to purchase a mansion, you know? Okay. So that's what he wants. He's trying, he wants to like show a symbol of their success, right? A mansion in that area? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Good on you, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

So if they're gonna buy a new house, they're obviously gonna sell coral reef. So um they decide that they need to do some construction on coral reef uh and to get it ready for sale. So in September, they move into a rental property in La Jolla Shores. Okay, while they prepare coral reef for sale. Um, during this, they found out that like part of this like slab that coral reef is on is slipping a little bit. Okay. So it becomes a bigger job than they had thought it was gonna be. So there's like a portion of the house on top of that slab that actually almost has to be completely demolished and like rebuilt. So they took out a school year lease on La Jolla shores. Okay, so it's nine months, September to June. They have nine months to figure out what they're doing. Buy a new house, fin it, getting the construction done on Coral Reef and selling it, right? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

I mean reasonable.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

Yeah. And like Betty still fully believes like they're doing this all, planning all of this together, right? But then Christmas comes. And with Christmas comes the um gift that Betty wants because it's been a rough year for Betty and Dan, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

To say the light. To put it lightly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

They they've gone through so much, you know, she's gone through so much. She thinks she deserves and wants this big statement piece ring.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Oh, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

With a massive emerald.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

I'm sorry, I like emeralds.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

Okay. Um, but instead, she received a ring that she described as a quote, tiny piece of shit. Oh, and said it quote, wasn't even worth the gas in my car to return it, and throws a huge fit and basically ruins Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

Wow. I mean, like, I need to see this ring. Yeah. I need because I've received something like that too, and been like, the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

That's basically her response. Yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

I get it, Betty.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:14

I get you. So now we're into February of 1985. Okay. Obviously, the fit at Christmas transpired into more rockiness in that relationship for the next month or so. And now Dan announces that he needs some space. So he's gonna move back into the unfinished coral reef house just for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

Rocky foundation. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

So I already, I already was like, I smell, I smell something with this rocky foundation situation.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Well, I mean, it's it's real, it's happening. It was it?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Um, but he's like, This is where I'm gonna go. Like sleeping on the floor during construction of this place is better than what's going on right now. I need to get out of here. Okay. Um, you know. Part of that didn't part of it just still didn't even have a roof yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

But no divorce is mentioned, no separation is declared. He just needs space. Okay. And Betty believes he's gonna come back, you know, obviously. But this move out will be known later as the official date of separation.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Because she is out of the house and he is in it. All of her possessions are gone. So he, right? No, they didn't, it was fully furnished rental.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

No, no, no. All of the corals still living in separate places. It's a it's a separation. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

But all of Coral Reef still has their original furniture and stuff in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

Even without the roof?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:43

Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Just covered up. Okay. Spring 1985, and this where I will lead us next will take us into summer. Okay. Okay. So after he leaves in February, Betty would not see Dan again until March 17th, St. Patrick's Day. Okay. He just arrives at La Jolla Shores with some buddies, has like a few like pre-funk beers, and then him and his buddies go out. And then he comes home and spends the night with Betty that night. And then gets up and leaves in the morning. She won't see him again after that until April.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

What? What's happening?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

Then she actually is the one who decides that she wants to set up a meeting at a restaurant nearby to discuss their finances because she doesn't know what's going on, right? Yeah. She's got four kids to take care of. Um, you know, what's going on? Because now, like, it's the end of like closing out into end of spring. We're getting into the end of, you know, school season. Yeah. This lease is gonna be or this rental is gonna be up soon, you know. Um, she doesn't know what's going on with purchasing of the house, selling of coral reef. She also has to like basically leave a message for Dan telling him when she needs money, yeah, you know, like to get anything done for the kids.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

She hasn't been home in two months.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

Yeah. So she's like, I want to just talk to you. I want to know, can we set up some kind of like automatic, like, fund transfer or something like that? Um, so that you know how much we need, like if you're gonna be taking all this time for all this space. But Dan refuses to explain anything that's happening. He continues to deny that he's ever had an affair or having an affair, and he stands firm on this space thing. So he doesn't think there's any reason to iron out any money issues.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

You can't live single when you're married.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:33

No, you can't live single when you're married, and you cannot not provide when your someone else has spent the majority of your marriage providing. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:43

And like Betty's struggling alone with four children. Of course. So right before uh the rental lease is up, she takes them on a little like like pre-summer vacation for a week. So they're gone. And then when they return home to La Jolla Shores, there's a complete rat infestation in the home.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

Like they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

She calls Dan and he's like, hire an exterminator. Like, doesn't even want to be bothered. Not my problem. Yeah. Yeah. So at this point now, she's just at her breaking point with this, and she begins dropping the kids off at Coral Reef, which is now finished. Yeah. One by one. She just takes them there and drops them off on the front lawn.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

Sometimes he's home. Sometimes he's not home till all hours of the night. And he comes home and they're sitting there in the dark.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

With all their belongings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

Um, but she really just wants him to realize how difficult single parenting is, right? Yes. So she thinks, okay, we'll give him one. We'll see how he goes. Does then Mark when he gets used to one? I'm going to give him another one. You know, see what he does there. And then Mark went to give him another one. Get him both both of the other ones, you know? Yeah. Now you got four kids alone, just like I've been doing. And she thinks like he's going to be like, please come home.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

You know? And then they'll be back, you know, in Coral Reef, whatever. But the problem is with this plan, however seamless, um, she's really just dropping her children off at their home, you know, where there's no rats. Yeah. You know, and like no discomfort. Like this is the home they've grown, they grew up in. Like, this is like all their stuff is there. Like, what's there's a housekeeper? Like, you know, what are you doing? Like, you're not helping yourself really in this.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:42

I would have already just moved back in.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:43

This is my home. Yeah. But also Dan steps up, you know. He's, of course, with the help of housekeeper. The children remain with him. He's doing, he's, he's fine. He's like, I'm not gonna fall. I'm not, he, I, he's like, I got you. I got your number, girl. You know? Yeah. Like, I'm not gonna give into this. So the distance continues to grow. Um, but there is still a signs of a reunion here because they continue to search for a new home. Okay. Okay. So the lease on the rental comes to an end, right? And then they purchase a teardown for $650,000, which we'll will be known as we go forward here as the Calle de Cielo house. Okay. Mm-hmm. It's beachfront property, by the way. Betty moves directly from the rental into Calle de Cielo.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

Um, as she's still respecting Dan's space. And it's a completely unfurnished home and no appliances. So she's camping on the floor in the living room.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

Yeah. And she's like expecting they're gonna start moving their furniture and appliances over slowly as they find a buyer for Coral Reef. So October of 1985 comes. There's obviously been no moving of any furniture or appliances. Yeah. So she had gone out and like ran up the credit card bill and just bought all new stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:13

Why wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:13

Appliances, furniture for the house, whatever. Um, and they're doing the kids are coming back and forth for you know, from visitation from both houses. And then Dan files for a divorce. And this is where the war officially begins. So as they're doing visitation back and forth, this is they're still living in the coral reef house. So um, she goes over there whenever she wants, gets the kids, you know, like you said, it's her house too. Um, visits the kids, whatever, this and that. And one day, while she's over there visiting the children, Betty sees a homemade Boston cream pie on the kitchen counter. And she said, I guess it looked like obviously it's homemade. Like she thought, like maybe one of the kids made it. It kind of looked like that. Yeah. So she asked the housekeeper at first, like, did you make this? Or did one of the kids make this? Like, you know, it's Dan's favorite.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:05

And the housekeeper goes, No, Linda baked it. So naturally, Betty takes the cake into the master bedroom and smears it all over Dan's bed and all over his clothing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

Because I'm not even she's cool, calm, and collected.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:20

Yeah. Very, very rational. So soon she starts vandalizing the house every time she comes to visit or like pick up or drop off the kids. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:29

Okay, that's a little yeah. She's not helping herself at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:32

She's spray painting walls just black. She's breaking mirrors, breaking random, like the door. So she's coming unhinged. Yeah. She's like just bringing over hammers and like putting holes in walls. Start dating some younger guys. You've got this beachfront property. Come on. So Dan obtains a restraining order at this point. Yeah, very fair. So Betty can no longer come within a hundred feet of him or the house.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

What about the kids? She's getting violent. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

So when the kids, when she picks them up, she has to stay on in the street in the car and they have to come out to her. She can't go or on the property at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

So November, December, these couple of months here in 1985. Um, Dan, like, so November, both of their birthdays are in November. So remember, we had uh the 22nd. The 22nd was Dan's birthday. Uh her birthday's also in November. So for her birthday, Dan sends flowers, but not the children. And the card on the flowers says, get well soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:40

Get well soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:42

Betty is not sick, okay? So I'm gonna do like a mini Joey speculates wildly here, just for a second. Um he doesn't bring the kids over and he sends her a flower arrangement saying get well soon. Yeah. So I would assume that he's telling the kids that she's unwell. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because why else? Like the kids are gonna be like, well, it's mom's birthday. Like, why we wanna go see mom? Like, we want to go see our mom on her birthday. You can't go because she's unhinged, she's unwell, like, full on. Like, I think he's absolutely telling the children that she's like mentally.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:21

Oh, okay. Not that she's sick. I would like to. I would see my mom if she was sick. I don't care. It's her birthday.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:25

I think they he knew he knows that. So it has to be something more. So I don't know, but it feels to me like that's probably how this is going.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:35

Yeah, because he has them all the time. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

Yeah. And then he also keeps the kids during the holidays. And then he simply sends another flower arrangement with a card on Christmas Day that just says Merry Christmas. So he's baiting her. Yeah. So while he sends this arrangement, right? He takes the kids on a ski trip with Linda. Of course. Yeah. So now she finds that out and she is like on another level with this. She's she thinks, like she's literally like, he's like banging her in this chalet in front of our children. Yeah. Like all this, like, I mean, full-fledged, like goes crazy, keeping my children from me on Christmas. Yep. You know, big, big, not a good, not a good thing. Maybe you shouldn't have freaked out last Christmas and made that one better one.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

Maybe you shouldn't have. I'm sorry, it's abandonment. You abandoned your kids. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:33

She dropped them off and then he just refused to give them back. Yeah, that's abandonment. Yes. But then another shot comes. Okay. Brace yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:43

I'm like, I am. This is all battery.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:47

So Dan purchases a mansion in the Marston Hills neighborhood. Okay. So Dan and Betty had looked at this house.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:57

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:59

Way back before the rental, even like when they had first decided to start looking for a home together. And when they were going to before they even like knew how much work Correct was going to be, all that. They were looking at homes. This is one of the homes that they looked at. And um, Betty did not like it. She said no. She's like, I don't think this house is for children. It doesn't look homey. Like the whole front of the house is brick. And like that. Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. It's a gorgeous house. And like there's a bunch of white columns in between, right? Which like again, Tara, like you know, he like gone with the wind. Yeah. So like he was like enamored with this house, but she said no. Okay. Um, and now this $600,000 house, which by the way, is cheaper than the house he bought for her at Kaya Day Ciello, which was $650,000, has a teardown. Okay. But now this house she's realizing may have just been planned all along. Yeah. Sounds like it. So now I'm gonna regular size Joey Speculates Wildly, okay? Because listen, okay, this house that they looked at was before like it was right after the bonfire, right? Yeah. So when he came home, why wasn't he mad? Yeah, you know, because that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

I'm like, he'd already checked out.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:30

Yeah, like why wasn't he mad at all of his shit on fire? Like he had to have already had a plan in motion or actually absolutely in his brain that he was coming forward with here and that he knew the next steps that he was gonna take. Well, look at that's his whole life. Yeah. So it's like, I think a hundred percent when they started looking for a home and he saw that house, he knew right then that he was gonna buy that house. And I think that he started motions on the house because how's it still available? Exactly. You know, he had to have been having some kind of and she just didn't know about it. Yeah, well, how would she? She has no idea about her finances. Yeah. And so then he's probably getting whatever work done on this house while he it's preparing for him. I think he probably thought it was gonna be ready when he moved back into Coral Reef. Yeah. And he thought he was gonna be able to move in there or something like that, you know, um, instead of having to move back into Coral Reef. I I think he just anticipated new house, kids move into the new house, whatever. Not at that point, I don't think he knew what was gonna happen with the kids. I don't think he even cared, really, because he didn't know that she was gonna drop them off one by one. But I think a hundred percent he knew that he was gonna buy that house. He started buying that house. His plan got a little tweaked. He had to go back to Coral Reef. She starts dropping the kids off. He's like, all right. And then they all move into Marston Hills, and now what's she gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

Well, I mean, I think honestly, he wants that house, he makes the plan and he knows that he has to get out of his home. Whether or not Marsden Hills was ready or anything like that, he knows no matter what, he needs to be somewhere else to start the separation date. Right. So that's why he had to go away, get out, yeah. Yeah, as doesn't none of it matters.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:10

No, yeah. So I don't know, whatever. I don't know the guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:14

Back with the rental. Yeah. And then was like, sure, you can have this house. Leave me the fuck alone.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:19

Back with back even before the rental, back with the bonfire. Like this had to be before the the bon the birthday bonfire. Because I again, I think 100% there's no world where Amanda's not come home and get mad and freak out.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:33

100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:34

Unless you're already like, it doesn't matter. It's it doesn't this doesn't even matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:39

She's falling into his plan exactly what he wanted.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:42

Oh gosh. So, anyways. Terrible. Yeah. So January of 1986, Dan and the kids officially move out of Coral Reef and into the Marston Hills house. Okay. With just a Kim and the kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:57

Oh, okay. Not with her. No. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:59

The kids recall and would testify later that Dan had wanted to move out of Coral Reef as quickly as possible because he thought that she wouldn't come over anymore because it's not her house. And she like definitely couldn't vandalize it. And like if she did any of that, like he could have her arrested.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:19

Because that was her number one excuse for vandalizing coral reef. She's like, this is my house too.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:24

You know?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:25

Like she could do like, I'm on the, I'm on, I'm on this house. Like, I I could do whatever I want. Yeah. You know? And so now that can't happen anymore, according to him. Okay. But it doesn't matter because it still does. Um, and then meanwhile, Dan is paying the mortgage on all three of these homes. Okay. Yeah. Coral Reef, Marston Hills, and Calle Day Cielo. Okay. So he wanted to start moving on the sale of Coral Reef immediately.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:53

Only now Betty didn't want to sell the house. Now she called it their family home. And it was sentimental. And then when that didn't really work, she started trying to find a way to call it a good investment. Okay. And also, by the way, this divorce is in motion and these sales are happening. And all this time, Betty has been trying to retain counsel. You know? Yeah. But every lawyer in San Diego that like she contacted would not take a case against Dan.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

Like, no way. But one at least gave her a recommendation for a lawyer, a divorce lawyer out of LA.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:41

Um, and he's called Dan Jaffy, but we're gonna call him Jaffe. Yeah. So we don't confuse the Dan's here. So many Danes. Um, okay. So Jaffy and Dan's lawyer, they set up a mediation for them to settle on Coral Reef. But the day of the meeting, Betty refused to go up to the office. And she stayed in the car in the parking lot. Wait. Yeah. I think I do know this story.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:12

Right when you said that.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:13

Years later.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:14

Yeah, right. I think I do know it. I think I know this.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:18

Well, she got like all dolled up, you know, but she wouldn't, she wouldn't go. She's gonna stay in the car.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:24

Okay. So, okay, Jaffy's like, whatever. He goes up and he tells Dan that Betty is not satisfied with 50% of coral reef. Oh, okay. I have everything, girl. Fucking walk. The sale. And that she wants more. Okay. Um, and there's some legal like things that would say like that the person who technically is like because she put it in like yeah, in charge. Yeah, the the like she was the essential like person who took care of the children, spent the majority of the time in the house, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, she is essentially like somewhat entitled to a little bit more than 50%.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:57

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:58

Um, so Dan agreed pretty quickly, and they drop this document, you know, for whatever she asked for. And Jay uh Jaffe takes it down to the car for Betty to sign, but she looks at it and she just refuses. She's like, no, now it's not good enough, and she wants even more. So he goes back up and tells Dan. And again, Dan's like, fine, whatever. Like, I just want to get it done. Yeah. Yeah. So they drop the new document, and yet again, down Jaffy goes to the parking lot. And again, Betty refuses to sign. And this time she states that even if he offered her a million dollars, she would never sell it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:45

So now you're just wasting everybody's time.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:48

It's not about the money, it's about the principle. And this is literally the mind state that I think a lot of people just kind of gloss over. Yeah. Because this is what it is. No matter what she's like doing here, it's not about the physical things or whatever. It's about the fact that she just wants everything back.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:13

Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:15

And so she wants the control. Yeah. So she sends Jaffy back to LA on a plane and she goes back to Calle Day Cielo um to prepare for her parents who are coming for a visit. Okay. So February 1986, uh, because the fact that Betty would not participate in the sale of the house, Dan and his lawyer go before a judge and they get an order of permission, which authorizes the sale of Coral Reef without Betty's consent. What? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:46

I didn't know you could do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:47

Yeah, it's called a four-hour sale. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:49

Well, yeah, that he could do that because he knows all the lawyers and judges. Shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:54

So while she's cooking dinner for her parents who are now visiting, right? She receives a phone call from Jaffee informing her of the sale of the house.

unknown 1:26:04

My God.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:05

She should have taken that. She should have fucking just waited.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

Okay, I think I remember this story. I do. Like with the thing. I don't know the whole story, but I I do remember this part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:16

So she says to Jaffee, I understand. Thank you. She looks at her parents. And then with the calmness. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:25

It's a little nerve-wracking.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:27

She just looks at her parents and says, be right back. Um, she, you know, the boys are there, so she's like, stay with the boys, you know, because the boys were over for dinner with their grandparents. The RB, right? Like.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:41

Or as Raven would say AFK. Away from keyboard. That's that's the new term. AFK. AFK? AFK. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:49

AFK.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:50

Never heard. Okay. Yeah. Yikes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:52

She's, I don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:54

That's so next gen. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:56

It's like next, next gen. Yeah. So she's furious.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:03

And she drives straight to Dan's house. But Dan is not there. Her daughters are there. Okay. Because her the boys are with her. The daughters are. And her daughters literally beg her to leave.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:17

Yeah. Because she's going to get in trouble.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:19

Yeah. You know, like she's not allowed to be there. She's banging on the door. She's obviously on the property. She's not allowed to be there. And they're like, please, you gotta go. You're gonna get in trouble. You're gonna get arrested. Blah, blah, blah. And she refuses. She's like, no way. She's like, I'm not leaving until uh he arrives here and I can and I get I wanna I wanna talk to him. I need to talk to him. I've I've gotta talk to him. Yikes. Right? So Kim calls her father and basically is like, Hey, you better get down here.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:48

They're teenagers at this point, right? About 15, 16. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:51

So yeah, she's like, get you gotta get you gotta get over here. Like for real, you know? And so he does, but when he gets there, he doesn't speak. With her, all he says is one sentence. You have ten seconds to get off my property before I pump your guts full of lead. Sorry, I could not like just like it literally just like reminded me of No, he but he does say sorry, okay, well um he does say you have ten seconds to get off my property before I call the police and have you arrested. Okay, so Betty drives away, but she doesn't go home. Now she goes straight to Coral Reef.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:47

Okay, okay, okay, which is no longer their property. Correct. It doesn't belong to either of them. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:51

Okay. So she smashes in the back sliding glass door. Okay. Yeah. She pours gasoline all throughout the house.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:03

Reasonable, reasonable.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:04

And attempts to burn it down.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

She's not attempts.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:08

Yeah. So there's gonna be some pictures up, and you can see uh the on the staircase, there's uh like a big black, like burned spot where the carpet obviously did like burn, but it went out. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:23

Fire retardant, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:25

I am apparently everything in their life was fire retardant at that time. Um I guess. But you can also see there's like match sticks everywhere, and then there's one photo of like normal. Yeah, there's one photo of an actual her, the actual match book like lying there on the ground. So I don't know why it didn't catch on fire, guys. I can't tell you, but it did not socks to suck.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:46

Yeah, that's what it what that is.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:47

Yeah. More mad now because she couldn't catch the stupid place on fire. She gets back. Like she's just not, nothing's going right for her. So she gets back in her Chevy suburban van with the license plate that read load them up. Like literally, load them up.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:09

Like you can't like when we're saying the suburban, suburban, is it a suburban or are we saying like those big vans?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:17

It's like the biggest, like Chevy suburban model. Yeah, I love yeah, those are the best. Those are so bad. It's like industry. Not a tank, yeah. It's a full tank. Yeah. So she drives back to Marston Hills. What? She gets onto the street, she sees the house at the end of the block.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:36

She's gonna ram her true ram into it, isn't she?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:40

She accelerates and she slams directly into the front door. And then she puts it in reverse. She puts it in reverse and does it again.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:57

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:58

But her daughters are in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:00

What if they were at the door?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:02

Uh that's what everybody said. Yeah. And uh that's where we'll pick it up next week. Oh my god. Stay tuned. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:12

This woman. I know, right? Like, I was on her side so hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:16

It's hard. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:17

But then she just went too far off the rail. Yes. No, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:20

I'm so sorry, guys. There, I have this, I have this opinion within me. I think that every woman knows how far she can push a man before it's too far. And I think that every man knows how far they can fuck with a woman before she mentally snaps. Yeah. I it's it's two different avenues, but the result is still the same. Where there's no turning back anymore. And that is absolutely what's happening. He's gaslighting her the whole fucking time. 100%. I hate him. I hate you know what? I hate them both. Yeah. Yeah. These poor kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:57

It's oh my god. The kids is like the worst thing. You guys don't even know. Like, it's so, it's, it gets so bad. The boys, it gets so bad. You gotta, you gotta tune in for the next installment. We got some audio clips coming up for you. Like, yeah, you just hang tight. But I mean, it's difficult. It's a hard one because it's like you can see where she's coming from. Yes. But you can see where he's kind of coming from, even though like maybe the beginning of this divorce and separation stemmed from being like, you know, about himself now. Like, how do you just there was a certain point?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:39

You can't come back from this. Exactly. There was a certain point where it was like, okay, there you can't, you're not gonna fix this.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:47

You just need to split. Even if you do somehow tend to mend the relationships with your children, because your children are gonna have shit against you too. Forever. Like forever. Like there's no you can't come back from that. Like the things and the that have that they've seen at the their ages, like that's toxic stress. One and you live with toxic stress for the rest of your life when you when it comes at you as a child, and it ruins you. Like can confirm. Yeah, like 100%. And so it's just always gonna be there. It's always, it's always it, it is. And like literally, also on top of it, now you're never going to talk to this man probably ever again for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:30

Provided you don't kill him. Or him kill you. I don't know. We don't know what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:34

Yeah, on that note, we'll be back in two and two.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:38

Yeah. You know, we we really can't close the tab on tonight's case because we will take a break. Yeah. We'll uh yeah, we'll be back with uh more. We're gonna go out on we're gonna take a smoke break. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:52

Hold our tab open.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Either way, cheers. Cheers. We'll see you next week. But even so then, don't get a music. Yeah, don't know. Don't forget. Then you won't hear.