Gianmarco Carla | Big Mamma, The Ned, Soho House

Some restaurants are quiet and precise.
 Some feel like theatre.
 Some feel like a party that somehow never loses control.

Today, we’re joined by someone who runs that kind of energy — at scale.

Gianmarco Carla is Director of Operations UK for Big Mamma Group — one of the most recognisable and talked-about restaurant brands in Europe.

In London, that means overseeing rooms that are loud, joyful, theatrical — and relentlessly full.

Before stepping into that role, he ran those rooms himself.
 He’s been in the middle of service — not just analysing it afterwards.

Before Big Mamma, he was Club General Manager at The Ned — a building that runs like a small city.

Before that, Soho House — rising from Floor Manager to Restaurant Manager to Club Manager, learning how culture, membership and standards intersect.

And before London, there was Italy.
 Years running restaurants and clubs in Milano Marittima.
 Starting as a supervisor.
 Learning hospitality from the ground up.

Big Mamma is known for spectacle.
 But spectacle only works when the engine underneath it is disciplined.

Gianmarco understands both.

Gianmarco, welcome to NO RESERVATION.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:27

No reservation. I'm Antoine Melon and I'm here with Gidden Lask. I spent my career inside hospitality, building and running restaurants, hotels, members' club, working alongside the people who carry the pressure when the room is full. Gideon approached it from a very different point of view. He's the customer that has high expectation, but when you please him, he's amazing. So he lives in the restaurant and hotels and notices when something feels effortless and when it doesn't. The podcast is about the people who hold the room together, the operators, the managers, the teams who make hospitality work, especially when it's under pressure. Each episode moves from beginnings to turning points to the moment that test judgment. And today we are joined by someone who understands scale and control. Gideon, please introduce our guest.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

I would be honored to, Antoine, but before let me just call out your little Sun Fan. Have you been away?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

No, I was it's it was work. I was in Paris over the weekend, accompanying my lovely girlfriend, and I was in Marbella for some work.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Ah, it was the sun shining. You look very well, very healthy. It was it was quite good weather, actually. I have very lucky, 20 degrees, kind of complex. Well, welcome back. Thanks for gracing us with your presence, you little international jets. I see you. On to our guest. Some restaurants are quiet and precise. Some feel like theatre. Some feel like a party that somehow never loses control. Today we're joined by someone who runs that kind of energy at scale. Gianmarco Carla is director of operations for the Big Mama Group, one of the most recognizable and talked-about restaurant brands in Europe. In London, that means overseeing rooms that are loud, joyful, theatrical, and relentlessly full. Before stepping into the ops director role, he ran those rooms himself. He's been in the middle of service, not just analysing it afterwards. Before Big Mama, he was club general manager at Lyned, a building that runs like a small city. Before that, Soho House, rising from floor manager to restaurant manager to club manager, learning how culture, membership, and standards intersect. And before London, there was Italy. Years running restaurants and clubs in Milan, starting as a supervisor, learning hospitality from the ground up. Big Mama is known for spectacle, but spectacle only works when the engine runs underneath it. John Marco understands both. Gianmarco Carlo? Welcome to No Reservation.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Good to have you here, man. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm very pleased to be here. What a background you've got. Yeah, it's been it's been 27 years actually. And yes, I'm starting to get some gray hair on the side as well. Welcome to the club, baby. But yeah, yeah, I've been around. I've been around. And uh frankly, what I love to say is I I love to be surrounded by people, and then that's why that's the reason why I like I love to do this job. That's why I also I love to not call it work or job as such. It's just an experience. You know, I'm experiencing my day with the people that I want to be surrounded by, with a guest that I want to have in my restaurant. So yeah, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

I love people too. I know you do, Antoine, as well. Now, there was a time where you two gentlemen didn't know each other. You were strangers, just people in a room, but now you know each other. How did that happen? John Marco, what's your first memory of Antoine?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

So, well, Antoine Melon is uh is a big character, and uh at that at that time he was the managing director for Soho House, and then everyone was uh looking up and looking at his uh career, presence, way of uh talking to people, manners. He's a he's an incredible person to to look up and uh and uh consider as uh as a person to to become at some point in uh in career. So then everything comes pretty easy because I'm uh I'm a very people person. I'm not afraid to say hello to anybody, regardless the positions. So I just went, introduced myself, and this is how it started. This is my first memory. What was he like? Was he scary? Uh no, very, very welcoming, very accommodating, uh look in the eyes, it's uh it's very relaxed, doesn't point finger or just talk about that table, their guest. It just talks about ask how you, how you feel, those kind of natural things that you normally don't expect from our managing director.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Oh, well done, Anton. You're so human and natural and approachable. So it's nice to hear from you. Mate, what's your first memories of uh Sean Marco?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Well, I could see, I remember it very well. Shorter Charles top floor, he was working in the it was kind of Italian restaurant, yeah, rooftop. And I saw that guy that was good looking first and knowing. Secondly, that he was so at ease with the customer, and really I could see he was enjoying his work by just giving great service and pleasing people. And unfortunately, you don't see that as often as you used to, perhaps. So I knew that there was a huge potential in him and that he would do very well in his career, and we obviously became friends and kept contact and so on, and I've seen him blossom in his career, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

I love that. What's the secret to your friendship, do you think, guys? Dramarco, why have you stayed in touch with this man?

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Uh good question. It's uh I think it's transp transparency, honest relationship, and also the fact that I always like to love to be in contact with someone that is well known in the in the industry because you know I always want to be up up to date. I always want to know new people, and then he's a great link, he's a great connection.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Nice. And how about you, Antoine? What's made you want to keep in touch with John Marco?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Well, to hopefully be part of his career journey to help him to make the right decision and or to be a bit of a mentor for him on whatever questions or doubt he's got to be there to answer and give my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yeah, I do actually I do actually maximize, if I can say, my time when I'm with him asking some very specific questions because I know he m he has an answer because he I'm following his path eventually. So he's been he's been there. So he knows I know where. I I consider him like a you know I refer an old grandfather? No, I I I say in a different way. There was this say about there was a yes, big brother. There was this about Kobe Bryant when he was looking at the goat mountain and he was going to Akeem Olajuo, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and then he was using them to understand the inside out of the game. So for me, that's the answer. So I was trying to understand you went through that. Tell me how you did it, and then I'm telling you how I'm doing it, and then you can either correct me or give me an advice.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

It's beautiful. Gosh, you've been described as the greatest of all time, and it's fun. We are humbled to be in your company. John Marco, let's rewind a little bit further, please. Before the career, before the titles. What's your earliest memory of being in hospitality but as a guest? So it could be a hotel, a restaurant, just a moment that stuck.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah, it was that well, it was a back in the day, boys back in Italy. Uh I was just uh you know going to this bar with friends. Um, and uh yeah, there was uh no back in the days, you know, to when you wanted to back in the days there were no phones. So you had to meet up with with people in the bar. So you have to talk, we have you have to mess um call with a with a what's it called? The um pager, a landline, the light lunch machine, that thing. Yeah, that thing. And say, okay, I'll see you there at 4 or 5 p.m. And then you just go to the bar and then you you you meet with the people. That was my experience with uh with hospitality, fast experience with hospitalities.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Good days, better days, I reckon. All right, very nice. All right. At this point, we like to talk about the current this week, the week we've had. I've you you know me, I'm I'm in and out of restaurants and hotels all the time. There are highlights, there are lowlights. How about you this week? Could you call talk to some highlights and lowlights of your hospitality week?

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Yeah, definitely. Uh this week particularly, we have hosted a dinner charity event in Manchester in our side in Chicolo Popolare for Eat Well. It's a big, a big name in uh in charity. And uh we wanted to uh host this event in sponsored by the Northern Bar and Restaurant Organization. The reason why is because we do believe entering in in this partnership with with this organization gave us a good opportunity to uh speak for Big Mama in Manchester. We are frankly pretty new. We just opened we opened a restaurant six months ago, seven months ago, considering a couple of months they've been on soft opening. So we need to be present and visible, and that was a great opportunity for us. And consequently, I was invited to a panel about leadership in hospitality, and I was sitting with another four um operation director, and then we basically discussed what's happening today with uh hospitality.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

It's a great, great chance to do that.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

I've got a question about that. So you've got Circolo Populare open in Manchester, which you have one in London. Does it mean that when you open outside the big cities like Paris and Madrid, London, do you use the one of the existing brand for the smaller cities or the provincial cities?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

So the the first original plan for Big Mama was to open in every city a different restaurant. So this is to give an opportunity to a guest to experience something different all the time. Now to make it more scalable, what we decided, what we recognize is to streamline this variety of restaurants into five different concepts, and which Circolo Populare is one of one of which. And uh we have opened a few Circolo Popolare this year in uh Barcelona, Dubai, Manchester, and uh that's it. And now we have uh we are opening the Glorious, which uh we yeah will be this year.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

What is the difference between a Gloria and a Circo Populare?

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Circo Populare is more loud music, fun, sharing table, very affordable price point, while Gloria is more refined, more sexy, more glammy-ish.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

So that's the difference between the twos. Talk to me about Manchester, because it's having a moment, again, it always seems to every four to six years kind of bubble up the resurgence, the second city piece. And we've had Soho House open there this year, I think, or late last year. It hosted the Brits, this big festival. Like from a hospitality professional's perspective, what is the Manchester opportunity and why are restaurant trains choosing to open there?

SPEAKER_02 11:40

It's big, it's big because uh it's uh it's an upcoming market, and there are a lot of opportunities whether the renting for students is is very is very low. So it's um and you can still pay the team, the staff with a good, good, good salary because you know, salary charge is part of it and help where and you're still applying at 12.5%, which is the equivalent of uh of the one in London. Equally, you know, minimum wages is the same as everywhere. So there are good opportunities to have a better earning, and so also the availability of sites incredible. There are there is a space everywhere, probably too much.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

I think Manchester's got the most construction going on right now of any British city. What about hiring people in a city which maybe traditionally doesn't have the clubs and bars and restaurants that we're talking about bringing from London?

SPEAKER_02 12:36

There was a challenge that was turning to an opportunity, and this is the beauty of Big Mama, for example, because uh we firmly believe in the internal international mobility, and then the opportunity for us to have to be present in eight, nine countries, three continents, give the opportunity, the team to travel, experience new countries, new cities. And essentially what we did, we brought a good 50% of members of staff from London. Now, having five, six restaurants in London, taking 10 from here, 15 from there, brought them to Manchester, and then the other half, we opened vacancies within yes the city to also gain the sentiment of community and local.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Plus, you see you brought the DNA of the company.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yes, there's a bit of a but exactly a bit of a culture brought from us, plus, the the local, it was a good synergy, and uh you know staff to know is a bare minimum. The team seems to enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

It's such a good news story, and whilst this is not meant to be a political podcast, you just wish that the government and those in power looked more at the hospitality industries, this amazing thing that is bringing kids up into an actual industry, an industry which AI won't devastate. So well done. That's great to you.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

No, thank you. And that's this is essentially what uh is a part of the conversation that I had during the during the panel, because hospitality is seen at the moment like a temporary job, and it is more than that. I mean, personally, I can speak for myself. Enable me to grow with my entrepreneurship, with my leadership, creativity. There is much more than that. And then if I challenge all my colleagues, we'll focus more on uh internal development in succession plan uh with training, with uh growth, with investing in leadership. Tomorrow we will have uh much more leaders, and consequently, restaurants will be good as they used to be, and so guest happy.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

That's great. That's a nice highlight of the week. Any lowlights?

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Um well, yes, the the challenge uh listing listing the challenges that we currently are facing essentially with uh with with people because uh the the the key now is okay, you come to to the business. How can I uh let you understand how important these um this sector is? How can I develop you? How can I uh help you to succeed? Because the interest is not there.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

My assumption is that for you in Italy and Antoine, you're in France, it's a very different feeling and that people enter hospitality to stay in hospitality. Is that true? If so, how has that happened in France and Italy and how can we learn from it and replicate here?

SPEAKER_01 15:36

You wanna stop? Do you want me to? Well, in in France it's part of uh our culture. It's yeah, it's there's a hotel school where people learn the the skills and then get to practice it in in restaurants and hotels. So you make a career out of it, and people are proud. And that kind of celebrity chef is is dated from all days, even from the chef of We 14, Vatel, and all those that have inspired a lot of the young generation. But it's true that in UK never felt there's not much hotel school, catering school, to teach you the skills. So it's a lot of you learn on the ground. So it's true, unfortunately, there's a lot of people, I would probably say 50% that work in hospitality as kind of a transition while they are students or why they couldn't make a career in what they study and use hospitality as kind of a bridge, but they don't automatically see it as a long term. Antoine, highlights and lowlights from your week, please. Highlights Paris. I'm French, but I left 33 years ago, and hopefully I don't have the French arrogance that we are the best country in the world by far. But I have to say Paris, which to me was almost bistro and brasserie offering, and there was not much international concept, surprised me. I was staying in the 9th, which is Pigal Montmartre, and I saw so many cool restaurant concepts, ethnic, different diversity that I was very impressed. London was always for me the best city in the world by far in terms of offering of cuisine and concept. But now I'm like, well, definitely Paris is not far from it, and definitely I've seen a change. And I think that change came from foreigners living in France that brought their heritage and using maybe yes, the the French culture or technique in cuisine, but doing amazing, I don't know, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italian. And it's funny because I walk past a restaurant and I say that must be a Big Mama. And it's funny how you recognize a brand with well, it doesn't show usually Big Mama, it was called Madonna.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Okay. Is it no? Oh, okay. Alright, somebody copy you. There are a few, there are a few around the audio now, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Interesting. So that was my highlight. Low light. I'm not gonna say names because uh it's a small industry and we know how hard people work, but I was invited to a soft opening, which I'm often uh, and I duly appreciate those invitations. It's a great way to support people in the industry to get a snapshot of the place before he opens to the public. And I went to a soft opening recently, and my god, I really had a really bad experience, unfortunately. Girlfriend is not allergic, but she's obviously intolerant in garlic and onion, which we mentioned. The waiter said no problem. And then 40 minutes later, someone came and said, actually, we cannot do that for the order because it's got garlic and onion. And then an hour and a half later, we got some food which was like two prawns. It took two hours. And I'm like, even if it's a soft opening, surely but you can have better communication. Um there was a lot of managers around, and I can't believe no one saw.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

So talk to me about soft openings then. Because the idea is you do the soft opening before the big launch in order to sort these wrinkles out.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Well, we definitely were guinea pig. Yeah, they they learned from us that there was an issue in the way they take order or the training was not good enough for that waiter because he didn't spot up that there was cardiac and onion. So he could have already won. Sorry, we cannot do that dish because it's got those products, or the chef, when he received the order at a pass, should have flagged it.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

No, I get all of this, but it's a soft opening. Whose job is it to be observing the soft opening and to take it, take all those learnings and kind of redesign processes or ways of doing things in a restaurant?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Well, usually you've got task force, you got obviously head office people. I could see there was a lot of people. A friend of mine that works there, unfortunately was not there, he's come doing a service. But yeah, so there's management there to see where the issues are, but I feel they could have approached us much earlier on.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So with the two with a two-week soft launch, is there ever a time where you say, nah, we're not going to be ready for the hard launch and you delay things, or do you just make sure things do get done in that two-week period?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

You have to, because two weeks is a lot of money invested. I mean, not everyone offers 100%. I think that day was food are complimentary on 50% on drinks, some places do 100%, some places do just 50%. But it's a way for and we know that there's gonna be mistakes. It's not gonna be perfect, but two hours for the first food in front of you was definitely quality. It was embarrassing, and I didn't want to leave because I know that people, and um, so it was a bit tough. But I wish them well, and I'm sure that it's I wish them well too.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Antoine, you mentioned French arrogance and this belief that France is the best country in the world, and it might be, but I love playing this game when I get to have a lunch or a dinner or sit down with someone from Italy and someone you'll pick the best, right? You'll pick the best. But, but, but, but, but John Marco, yeah, I want you to tell me the thing that France does better than Italy, please.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yes. Oh my gosh, sparkling wine, let's put it this way. I'm not gonna call it champagne or methodo classico, yeah, sparkling wine definitely, because I do drink a lot of champagne, even though I'm Italian, I should drink uh my Metodo Classico. Yes, I would say I would say going back to hospitality, school and education in hospitality, much better than Italy. In Italy, you learn hospitality on the field, in the ground, on the ground. In um majority of the greatest manager I met are French. So, education in hospitality. Last, I'm gonna give you another one. Uh okay, I'll give up with cheese.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Oh, really? You're gonna surrender cheese? Yeah, diversity. Yeah. Well, I know you're gonna agree with Antoine. Alright, Antoine. So Antoine, I need you to tell me what the Italians do better than the French.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

You can start with football.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

When was the last time you were okay? I think the charm, the uh positivity, the the fun, because I think sometimes the French take it too seriously about hospitality, and at the end of the day it's service, and it should be about having fun and create a nice experience, but not taking too formal, which could be. And obviously they got an amazing food as well by far, amazing wine, just super Tuscan and so on. And yeah, I think there's more warmth from from the Italian on the service, and they're more stylish. I mean the way they dress. Do you think there's more variety in Italian food than French? I think as a f foreigners don't think so because again they think that Italian food is just pasta tiramisu on uh on pizza and that's it. Whereas it's very similar to French. Every region has and has its style of food, and it's so diverse from Sicily to the Millionaria, Venezia. I mean it's completely different type of dishes. So I think unfortunately it doesn't export on the sample French food. People think it's just all like a lot of butter and cream, when actually, again, the Provenceal cuisine doesn't use at all cream, and it's very light and uh healthy, similar to Italian, with olivoy base. So I think there's a lack of knowledge about the diversity of the uh regional cuisine.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Alright, before we leave this topic, I need you both to agree on something the Brits do better than both the Italians and the French, please.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Stunned, look, that's a tough question. Beer. Beer.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Great. Proud of that one. Hey, listen, I have a a low light from this week. And it involves smell. Again. So was in a friend of ours restaurant, and stupidly went on a Sunday late afternoon, three o'clock, you know you're not going to have the best experience. It's been staff turnaround, everyone just wants to bugger off for the day. We we ordered, and you could tell it was a junior team in the actual kitchen. The guy running the floor just didn't look like he should be. Anyway, the food came, we were sharing, we then put the food onto our plates, which had been delivered, and we could smell wet dog. And so we we'd smelt the plates, and I don't know, they'd been sitting around somewhere in a dirty dishwasher or something, but they stank horrendously badly. The plate, not the food. The food was fine, but we'd put the food onto the smelly plates. The whole experience was solid. The waitress would not accept that these plates smelt because all she could smell was the food. It was a horrible experience. Why do plates smell like that sometimes in restaurants? What happens? How do you avoid it?

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Might have washed it by hand instead of the dishwash. The dishwasher was broken on the cloth they were using has been used for too long and was carrying just smell of food from a few hours of been using it.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

So and this put this poor lady clearly through lack of training. Like if I was her, I would just would have apologized profusely and ordered new food and brought it.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Never argue, show empathy, no problem. Let me bring you new dishes and new and fresh food.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

So so we we f we forgive and we move on, but my final question on that smelly experience. We know we know the chef proprietor. I haven't said anything because God, he's got much bigger things to worry about. Is it useful to give that low level of feedback, or did I write do the right thing by just moving on?

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Next time you see him, uh, because I think I know we did. I think next time you see him, just you mention it because I think, yeah, you they want to know from their friends, from the ambassadors experience that they had. I don't think it's worth a WhatsApp or an email. That's a bit too formal. I have not.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Was it what was it was your friend aware of your visit? No, he wasn't at night. Scott quite many restaurants.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Oh, not that important. Okay, so that that was my low light. Let's let's move forward or optimistically. Giamarco, pivotal moments in your career, sir. 27 years, did you say? Goodness me. Many in Italy, many in the UK, moving from clubs to restaurants and all this kind of stuff. There must have been some people, some dining rooms, some experiences which kind of helped track or plot your path through your career. If you look back over time, it'd be great to hear about a few. Yeah. I think um who was your first boss?

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Um, my first boss, it was it was I think it was Jamie Kerr. Remember Jamie? Yeah. Of course we know Jamie. First in UK, I mean, yes, yes, yes. Great guy, great guy. How did he change you or your career trajectory? Interesting. Oh, yeah, I got the answer for that. Yeah, absolutely. Now it's um everything's coming back. Yeah. So when I first came to UK, it was just for uh for a short period of time. I decided to come because my partner was here. Back in the days, he was doing modeling, and uh she came because she had an agency here. So normally in uh in Italy you you work on a long summer season, starts between March, April, Easter, and then end of September, ends. And then back in the days, I used to go, I used to travel a lot in uh summer places, Brazil, Thailand, South Africa, and so on. That particular year, I decided to come to London because of my partner. And then I joined Soho House. So because my I was uh, and then I I again when I moved, I moved with a background of general manager. But I joined Soho House as a waiter because I didn't want to have any responsibilities. I'm here for a short period of time. But then when when me and my partner decided to stay, I went straight to Jamie, and then I say, Jamie, listen, I want to stay and I want to go through the career, career path. So tell me what I need to do to go through manager level. And then right after stage, Marco, yeah, come in. I need you, I need you as a as a flow manager. So absolutely it just um I think it try as Antoine said, people see on me the level of interest and curiosity into this job, and they give it it gave me the opportunity. Then the rest was done by by myself essentially, yeah. So that was uh probably the first pivotal moment, yeah. And what led to you moving out of the Solar House group? Good. So I've been there for really uh nearly six years, between six and seven years, and then just pre-COVID, I wanted to change. Normally, I mean, I I was a different person now, but normally because I was young, I I normally think the four max five years are enough to build your portfolio, learn what you want to learn, have your career growth into an organization, but then you want to change because UK has such a big variety of uh leadership, man, management, etc. I wanted to see something different. Then COVID got me stuck, as everybody in hospitality. So I stay around for another couple of years, and then and then I changed it because I think what I learned, what I had to learn. I worked in uh I worked in members' club for yeah five, six years. I had the benefit of working with so many great managers such as Martin Kuchmaski, Gareth Banner, Neil Christensen. Great, but I learned. So what's next? What's aside? That's right.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

And in the current job, the transition to ops director, very different gig.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

How did you adjust? It's it's a continuous adjustment because myself inside, I really want to be in the restaurant, I really want to be in action, but at the same time, I have to relay on people that I have. So the adjustment is frequent and happens from day to day. But the the key moment for me is to appoint the right general manager into each site. And the beauty of my organization is to put general manager at the center of every single restaurant. And what normally we call head office in our organization is called support office. General manager is the engine of the restaurant, and we, including me, FMB, comms, HR, Finance, we got to support the person in charge. So that helped me that transition to step back, not micromanage, and give full support to the person appointed.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

I love that. Now, Antoine tells me he's never made a single mistake in his career. Which I'm sure is I'm sure it's the case. But for me, I think I learned from all the mistakes that I make. When you look back, have there been mistakes? Have you learned from them? Are you happy to share? Oh, well, yes. I reckon yeah. I mean, think about well, and if you take some time for thinking. Have you made any mistakes, Antoine, joking aside?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Plenty, and I think you you learn from it, hopefully, and become a better person for the next role, for example. Do you want to share one of the mistakes? Yeah, probably at the beginning of my career I wanted to start with higher responsibility right away without maybe going through the ladder. And because I came from Lausanne Hotel School in Switzerland, I like I want to get to middle management right away. Whereas I probably would have benefited from starting at a lower level, like you did here in London, and learn uh yeah, learn on the floor. Even if luckily with the hotel school, I was able to do three internships, six months as a chef, six months as a waiter, six months as a management trainee. So I had some basic experience, but not real, I would say. And Joe Mark, how about you?

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yes, I it took yeah, I took some time to think about it, and then actually this could be also matched with a pivotal moment that was uh very important for my career. And it's actually one of the best. Essentially, a person you know, Francesco Delfrede was at that time my manager, and I basically hide a mistake. I forgot to put the sides on the on the order. So steak, five steaks that were meant to come with uh chips and uh spinach, forgot to put it the order on, and then the chef realized that he didn't say anything to me, extended the the steak, and then I wanted to fix the the arrow by myself, didn't say anything to the manager. This was escalated, and of course it didn't went, it didn't go well. But what I learned from that was so important that you need to be as much transparent as possible, not hide any mistake, and learn from it. From that moment, I kept for nine years that ticket in my wallet. I'm not joking. I kept, and I tell you what is funny. I kept that ticket for nine years in my wallet. Nine years after Francesco joined Big Mama as a general manager, and then I gave him back this ticket, and then I said, This was the most important moment for my career because I learned how important it is to be transparent with your manager. Voila.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

That's a beautiful story. Oh, love it.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

You moved in Brazil. He's in Barbarella at the moment, yeah. It's a great, it's a great, it's a great. It was my I was inspired by him by the way eventually. He's a great manager.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

And such a lovely story because he used to work for Francesco, and now Francesco kind of works for him. And again, without having any ego on song, which some people will struggle with.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

He doesn't have, he's eyes up. He's a brilliant guy.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

It's a big team sport, hey. Okay, so those were the pivotal moments of your career were, because this is truly gonna be the pivotal moment. It's a game we like to play on this pod called Under Pressure.

unknown 35:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

But let's see. So we've got a few random scenarios. So I'm just gonna pick a couple of cards here. Let's see what we end up with. Okay, this one's a good one. The High Rollers Kids. So it's early evening. A regular guest is in, he's one of your biggest spenders. They're here a lot. The team knows them well. Tonight, though, they've brought their young children. The kids are running through the room, in and out of tables, touching things, loud enough that other guests are starting to notice and get pissed off. The parents see it, but they're not really doing anything. Your team's looking at you. How do you handle this? Great.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

It might be happened to me in the past, so it's probably not that there might there's much under pressure. But essentially, what I did, you know, I just got uh some blank sheet, went to the table, caught the kid with me, some colour, and then I said, Do you mind to to to draw some pasta and some pizza on this blank sheet? The kid eventually went to the table, sat down, and started to play. So the solution was quite quite cool. Because then after I he was coming to me with his with his piece of paper, showing me what he was doing it, and then again, a new one, a new subject, and then this is the way we we manage the situation.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah, beautifully handled, sir. I think more people should bring me a piece of paper to colour on when I get annoyed in a restaurant. Okay, let's pick another card. All right, I like this one too. The content creator. It's pretty busy. A guest sets up a tripod and a camera. He starts filming start without asking, moves furniture for better angles, interrupts service to get the shot. Other guests are watching. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Okay, again, that this happens in uh same time. So I sadly not in uh in service anymore, but I give guidance to the team. And uh what I would do here is first in first, I would never embarrass the the guests in front of anybody. So I will pull the guests on the side, have um a quick conversation, explain what the concept is like and what the people come and join, and then eventually how can his or her behavior can impact on the experience of other people. So once I explain reasons, I see what the reaction is like. And then based on reaction, then I can I can I can I can use my my my second card or my second chance. Definitely I'm not a big fan of tripod or allowing guests taking photos, even though my the restaurant that we that we run are super pretty. But uh it's always it always comes with um having a frank and honest conversation and um explaining reasons. So never had any big pushback. If if happens that the pushback or the guess is too difficult, then again it's it's it's matter of it's a matter of yeah explaining expectations from uh from from from the restaurant, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Okay, very good to hear. Alright. Let me pick a third card. Uh okay, let's take this one. Valentine's Day. Your restaurants are very romantic within the group, some of them. There's a couple. They're clearly having a fantastic evening. They're holding hands, they're smooching, they're looking into each other's eyes. First, the lady disappears from the table, and then the gentleman disappears from the table, following her into the female bathroom. It's very clear from the noises that guests are hearing that they're having some fun. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Well, uh, that's a good question. Let me let me think of that. Okay, so well has it happened to you before. Yes, it did happen. Made it happen. Scoozy. Yeah. I think it was in Shorty Showers, yeah. Yeah. So it depends on the first thing, it depends on the design of the the buffer because it did happen in the past. So in a in a we in a female toilet, so we managed, we organized the men's toilets to be unisex. So it was manned by someone at the door that could police, you know, was going in and out. But then again, pull the guests on the side. This is completely out of order, and then you invite them to leave and you escort them outside because it's completely not appropriate in a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

And when you say outside, outside to the dining room or outside, outside. The restaurant, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You throw them out. Yeah. Do they have to pay the bill?

SPEAKER_02 40:10

They have to pay the bill. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

That could have been a nice, happy ending. Um, thank you for playing. I would have come outside the door and I would have said, yes, you started Israeli. So it's a nice Wisp Tongue. Can I say one if you walk to our hand?

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Thank you for playing the game. You survived under pressure very well. I like looking back and having fond memories. Antoine, you like looking to the future, don't you, my friend?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah, especially nowadays where unfortunately the future of hospitality seems when you read a press or when you hear it, so many places closing that it's quite doom and gloom. So, how do you see the future of hospitality in the UK specifically?

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Hmm. I don't see that bad if we uh we believe in what we do. And then I I I would just focus on on my on my organization on my on uh on my restaurants, for example. Um what is crucial is to have a very strong fundament in in onboarding and training. And uh what is um important, particularly for the selection of head chefs and general managers, is to ensure they believe in the mission, believe in the project, they embrace uh the product, and once they are with us with this, then it's a matter of creating a strong and solid succession plan for the people that work with us. So people don't work with us just because they're paying the rent. So we have to be very clear, transparent with what the opportunities are in the future. And once you transmit the level of clarity to people, this enable you to have a higher attention and ensuring that you can open more and more restaurants. So that's why what I was mentioning before, it's important that everyone in hospitality has to believe that internal growth and training are super important, and that's why I'm very adamant to have a strong LD department in my in my organization because it's the best way to retain the team.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

What's your retention?

SPEAKER_02 42:39

45. Very good. Very low from a 120. We move when I I mean, not because of me, but because of these choices they I've taken with my team. Three years ago, the staff retention was hitting 120%, which was bad.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Now in UK no, when you mean 120%, not retention, you mean uh rotation.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Rotation, pardon, yes. So you had staff living 120 staff to Nova, yes. And now we decreased down to 45. So retention is 45%. 55%, absolutely. That's pretty good. Yeah, it is, and considering that in um in the benchmark in UK is 65%, and 55% is for the uh the employment in general. Achieving that number, it's um it's it's difficult, specifically because this year we opened four restaurants, and when you open a restaurant, normally you take some gambles with with new people, and then you know, people stay uh they live within the probation period. So achieving that number for me is one of the biggest uh achievements in my career.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Well done. Thank you. What would you say to the young generation to motivate them to join the industry or to join Big Mama?

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Uh yes. Uh be asked. To choose the business that or the restaurant or the concept they they would like to work. Do not just pick the job or pick the restaurant just because of the wages. Because wages can be lower in one place, but they can be higher in another. Okay. But that's not shouldn't be the main uh driver. Just pick the person that can trust you, develop you, believe in you. And if you don't like it, just move on until you find someone that you really like. So concept is important, but also the person, the mentor is equally important. So that my that this is my advice. And then again, there is a lot of room of growth in this industry. I started as a waiter, today I'm an operation director. What I learned also on a on a personal level, how to how to how to interact with uh with uh with different people helped me a lot with uh through throughout my experience my experience in uh in hospitality. So it's uh it's a long journey that temp temper your character?

SPEAKER_00 45:14

What's the English the temper your enthusiasm?

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Yeah. Define your define your your your character.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yeah, I like that. Strong words, sir. See. Alright, John Marco, it's time to pass the room. Before we let you go, we want to keep building this room, this podcast properly. Which general managers or ops directors should we be speaking to next? And very importantly, why? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Let me think about it. Uh, we have I've got a few. I have it. Maria from Blacklock.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Very, very strong. Blacklock, Blacklock, yeah. They've had some serious growth, haven't they, Mike?

SPEAKER_02 45:56

She is excellent. She is everywhere. She's uh she's super intelligent, charismatic, humble, and great knowledge. Uh, she's a background with Shake Shark and Oxmoor. Well, she knows. She's been around. Did you go to the one in Manchester when you were there? Uh Manchester, yes, absolutely. Three three times. Yeah, I was thinking because they're opening in Birmingham now. So yeah, I've been there a few times.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

All right. We'll get do you have a number, Antoine? I can give you the number. All right, we are connected. Thank you, sir. In hospitality, a reservation guarantees you a seat, but it doesn't guarantee you a great night. That part is earned. It's earned by the people you rarely see. And that's who this podcast is all about. Thank you for listening. This is a show. No real reservation.