Aurélien Mouren | The MAINE, Coya, Park Chinois, Roka

Some people arrive in hospitality through management.
Some arrive through the floor.

Today, we’re joined by someone who has built his career step by step — service by service — through some of the most demanding rooms in the world.

Aurélien Mouren is Venue Director at The MAINE Mayfair — a room that is consistently full, high-energy, and unforgiving if standards slip.

But that position is built on years in service.

Starting in Paris — Buddha Bar and Costes — learning rhythm and expectation early.

Then Jean-Georges in New York — a shift into precision and global standards.

Back to Paris.
Then London.

Mews of Mayfair.
Roka Charlotte Street — one of the most disciplined dining rooms in the city.

Then into scale.

Sea Containers.
Soho House.
Shangri-La — overseeing food and beverage at hotel level.

Then into some of London’s most high-pressure, high-expectation rooms.

Coya Mayfair.
Park Chinois.

And now — The MAINE.

Different cities. Different formats.
But the same constant — the room is full, and the standard has to hold.

Aurélien, welcome to NO RESERVATION.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Okay, so welcome to No Reservation. I'm Antoine Melon and I'm here with Gidon Lasque. I spend my career inside hospitality, building on winning restaurant hotels, members club, alongside the people who carry the pressure when the room is full. Gidon approaches it from the other side as a customer who lives in restaurants and hotels and notices when something feels effortless. A faultless? Oh it doesn't. This podcast is about the people who hold the room together. The operators, the managers, the teams who make hospitality, especially when it's under pressure. Each episode moves from beginning to turning points to the moment that tests judgment. Today we are joined by someone who has come through some of the most demanding dining rooms in Paris, New York, London, and now runs one of Melfair's busiest venues. Gidon. Please introduce our guest. Merci Antoine. I am just back from Paris where everyone was calling me Gidion. I like it though. Well, you got two French people. I did indeed, gosh. I'm outnumbered gentlemen just after the rugby as well. Gosh. Gosh, this is an exciting introduction to give. So listen, some people arrive in hospitality through management, some arrive through the floor. But today we're joined by someone who's built his career step by step, service by service, through some of the most demanding rooms in the entire world. Aurelian Mahong is venue director at the main in Mayfair, a room that is consistently full, high energy, and unforgiving if standards slip. But that position is built on years of service. Starting in Paris, Buddha Bart and Cost, oh, so many fond memories. Learning rhythm and expectation early. Then Jean-Georges in New York City, a shift into precision and global standards, and back to Paris, then London, Muse of Mayfair, oh, Muse of Mayfair, and then Rocker of Charlotte Street. For me, one of the most disciplined dining rooms in the city. And then into scale. Sea containers. Oh, the nights we've had there, Antoine. Solo House, Angela, overseeing food and beverage at Hotel Level. And then into some of London's most high pressure, high expectation rooms. Queer. In Mayfair Park, Chinois. Goodness me. And now the main. Different cities, different formats, but the same constant. The room is full and the standard has to hold. Aurelion, welcome to No Reservation, sir. Thank you. What a career. What a CV. What a resume. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yes, it's been it's been a journey. Yeah. It's been definitely a journey over the last, what, 26 years now? I was gonna say how many years? You must have only stayed in each place for one year. Yeah, it's been it's been it's been great. You know, I've been very lucky to be able to work with, you know, four incredible brands, with incredible people. And uh yeah, when I look back, it's been it's been really amazing, and I'm and I'm quite happy to be where I am today. That's great. You look happy, you present as very content. It's nice to see. So listen, before we go anywhere else, how did you guys first cross paths? Do you remember very well? Well, Anton. You tell me your version of the story. I just started at Sohaus as the EMD for the UK, and I think it's Martin, the COO, says he wanted me to meet Aurelion that I think he's been recommended to or already interviewed. And I think he was going to go to the farmhouse, ideally. And I was not fully directly in charge of farmhouse. We had an MD for there. So I met Aurelion. I felt, yeah, I can see massive potential, I can see that what he will bring to the brand. And that was 2016, 10 years ago. What's your recollection of that story? I I think for me, yeah, I come from a pretty much of a rigid background in hospitality industry, quite almost military. And for me, you know, potentially moving back to Sew House was definitely a change. When I met Antoine, someone quite, you know, laid back, you know, interviewing gin and trainers. You know, I never experienced that in my life. So for me, that was a great change. And I was very attracted by that, but that change. And I was very lucky to got the job in the coats wall. And it was just amazing. The Prophet Yeah, I've arrived six months after the opening. And for me it was such a change. I was just became a father at the time, moved to the coats wall, and it was such an eye-opener for me on things. I've been now 17 years in London, and working outside of London with a different clientele was great. You know, I'm very grateful for this opportunity. And you guys have been friends for a very long time. Yeah. So what's the secret to your friendship, do you think? I want to go back to the fact he says that what I was wearing, because it's funny. No, because I also come from uh obviously a probably a much more classic background, having been at Lausanne Hotel School, where they will check in the morning our nails and our grooming or the way we were shaped. And if you didn't meet the standard, they say no, you go back to your bedroom and to could to get changed. It was like the Thai had to be perfect, it was about hospitalities, about perfect grooming. So actually coming to Seo House where well I was a res I was GM of a resort in Thailand, so it was a bit more relaxed, but I was shaving daily, I was always dressed impeccably. I had to learn in So House to be a little bit more cool and yes, wear jeans and sneakers, but maybe still a jacket at the top. So you probably saw me, I was just trying to be cool. But it's funny how day has changed because in days you have to shave like daily. Beard was forbidden, tattoos were forbidden, earrings. It was like you will read it in a grooming starter of the place that no, no, no. Whereas now there's much more flexibility, and actually now we are happy to see the personality of the staff in the industry. So when you guys get dressed for like a service, do you dress as if you were just on a regular night out, or do you dress for the brand of the restaurant you work at? Or you you you dress for the brand. Definitely. Yeah. You adapt, you know, your style to the brand because you know, this is what you sell, that's the image of it. So uh Okay, so you you dress differently now at the main that's what you were wearing at Pak Chinois or at Koya? Yeah, 100%. Pakshino is very much suit and tie, suited and boated, you know. And and the main where we are a little bit more lifestyle. Yeah, you you you you you know, the way you dress is is like the interior, you know, is like the decor. Do they give you a clothing allowance and or guidelines for how you should dress? Not so much of a guideline, you know, from a certain level within management. I think they they want to see that you understand what this is about, so they leave it to you. It's not a good sign if you're having guidelines. It means that you probably don't really understand the sense of style. But an allowance, yeah, of course, yeah. Lots of companies are doing that. It's a good question because it's So House Again management were able to wear what they wanted. We had of partnership with some fashion brands, so they had an allowance to use in some of those brands, but we used to give them how do you call it, like a mood board of what we wanted, like a chino with white sneakers and maybe a jeans uh shirt on a navy black jacket to show the kind of direction we wanted. Because not everyone has type. Antoine took me to soft launch, we won't say where, of a kind of new restaurant members club thing a few weeks ago. And I mean, the poor team that had to work there, they looked ridiculous in their outfits. They didn't like it. How much thought actually goes into the staff and what they feel when they wear this stuff? Because I can imagine on the mood board, cool idea. But then the reality, we're all different shapes and sizes, right? We're wearing uh like if you go to a university or a school. No, it's more if we're younger, like it's like a school. Yeah. With like name of the school on the uh like as a badge, but they did some fit for the member. Those decisions is is I think it's very dangerous if they're made in the office. Yeah. You need to put it on the team member and say, how do you feel when you're wearing that? And and if you are not doing this, you there's probably a bit of a gap from the expectation and the end result. So yeah, it can be a bit tricky. So very glad you guys are friends, because I get to meet you too now, which is really nice. Before we talk more about your career in hospitality, I'm always really keen to know what you fell in love with about hospitality. This is as a guest, not a professional. So you may have been a kid or a young adult, but what's like your earliest memory of you thinking, oh, this restaurant or oh, this hotel? I mean, we're going way back, you know, this is more of a childhood memories, but I always used to watch my mum cooking. As a kid, I was always very interested in flavors and different cuisine as well. I was very always been very attracted by Japanese food. But my memory, I think I got very lucky within the hospitality industry. I went to I grew up in the suburb of Paris. I went to hospitality high school. So I was from a very young age within the hospitality industry. And I was a stagiaire, I was an apprentice at Buddha Bar Paris. And the first time I remember I was 17 years old, I've entered in this dining room with this massive Buddha in the dining room and and and busy service. I remember the briefing. We used to say we have 600 reservations tonight. It was literally madness. And and from a very young age, I say, this is what I want to do. And and I fall in love. I guess I got very lucky as a as a as a stagiaire because some of my friends were going to very gastronomic very restaurant, not that exciting. But I think I got lucky to uh to again from a very uh very early stage. Um Buddha Bardos was like unbelievable. The one of the first lifestyle restaurants in Paris. I mean, talking about clientele, you turn left, right, center, you have you know VIPs everywhere. The type of food was just something really unseen in Paris, where in the early 2000s, you know, they were quite conservative in terms of French cuisine and so on. We used to have a Japanese chef coming from Japan who used to cut his fish, and I was used to stare at him for hours, and I was just amazed by that. And and this is what I say. I say, you know what, I just I just wanna I just wanna uh be in this industry, and and I used to look up to the chef de rang like those guys are just amazing. What I was just polishing cutlery in the back, is this still there? Put a bar? Yeah, still there. Very different vibe, I guess. Very much so. Terrorist trap now? Yes, I guess. So the the the uh you know uh the the owner unfortunately passed away a little while ago, Mr. Raymond Vison. He was such a visionaire in terms of what he wanted the guest to feel and not only about the food but also from an atmosphere he was very, very special. So yeah, I remember buying I remember buying albums, Buddha bar albums for the music, the vibe. Yeah, it was incredible. Ravin. DJ DJ Ravin, Clochal, Clo Clochal, Stefan Boupuniac is a hotel cost. Yeah, that was one of the first examples of kind of I guess a restaurant's atmosphere and brand extending beyond the dining room into something truly lifestyle. And and they've done very well. They've done very well, they have expanded all around the world. As you say, it's very different now, but I've I was there for more than two years and it was again, it was really Front memories. That's cool. Alright, so from yesteryear to the week that's just gone by. We like to take a pause at this point and think about our hospitality highlights and lowlights from the week that's just been. Antoine. Hi left, mate. I'm very lucky I come back from Marbella. I was working with a lovely client, Marbella Club, which is probably one of the most luxury hotels in Spain. And it's my highlight because it's it's such a beautiful establishment, and it's kind of uh old school but with some contemporary or modernism. They've known how to use their history background and keep the storytelling, but still not upgrade but movie the times and now they attract multi-generation customers, which is very interesting in hospitality, where you see the grandparents have been in this hotel for 20, 30 years bringing their kids that are in their 40s, 50s, and bringing their grandchildren and take large villas. So this year I'm working on the on the beach club to kind of that was one of the first beach clubs in Europe when they opened in the 60s with a swimming pool by the beach, and uh it's a stunning location. So definitely my highlight because some of the staff have been there for 40 years, the way they serve, the way they let take care of the customers. It's what hospitality is about, but it's something you don't see anymore as often, unfortunately. So definitely my highlight. My lowlight, it's not automatically this week, it's just uh a pain point, I think, in the industry. And when I do training about restaurant opening, I always say, please, the bill. When you ask the bill, you want to go. So don't make me wait for the bill and then don't drop the bill and leave the table when I want to pay on leave. It's it's hard to ring a full two hours of amazing experience to the end where you're like, okay, you wait for the bill five minutes, somebody drop it, and you wait five, ten minutes to get someone's attention to bring a credit card. But but how does this still happen then? Because that would be all of our lowlights, right? And it happens most of the time in most restaurants. Because no one tells them. I train people, say, when someone has the bill, you bring it right away and you bring the credit card machine at the same time, because 99% of the time people would pay by credit card nowadays. And if they ask the bill, it's not to be sitting on the table for 20 minutes. They want to pay on leave because they got a meeting, or they got to go back to work, or they have to meet some friends in a row in a bar. So just bring the bill and charge them on the spot. Don't because of course if you go to do something else, you're gonna be catched somewhere and it's really frustrating because. How do you feel about clearing the table before you bring the bill? Well, usually when people ask the bill, they finish their they may be having coffee or a drinks, so the table will be mainly clean and probably a few beverages. It is a painful process. My low light. How about your highlights and lowlights? Been to my local restaurant again in Dalston, Mongol. I've been going there for 10 years. Is it the same that face Mangal Notinga? No, it's a different one. They all call Mangal, surprisingly. But I've been going there for the last 10 years, and the food each time they nail it. They nail it. I never had a Turkish, Turkish, everything is grilled, they serve you with a salad, the service is so friendly. You go with everyone, wife, husband, kids, they're so welcoming. This is pure Turkish hospitality. And again, I think they're spot on each time. I love it. Okay, so shout out to that restaurant. That's a visit. And it's funny because I think we're gonna see more and more resurgence of local restaurants. I think people are traveling less to central London, to city, Mayfair, go to restaurants. They stay in the neighborhood where they live and they're they're eager to find good quality local restaurants where you're being recognized, where the food is great value for money, which you probably didn't have in the past. Although a great restaurant concept where Mayfair saw, but now in Dolston, in many areas, Belmontsey where you are, there's plenty of good choice. I mean, no one lives in central London anymore, so that's why the neighborhood restaurants are doing so well. And it's walking around today. I mean, it's packed. Yeah, the sun is out, but it's definitely busy for Thursday. So it's great to see. I'm gonna visit Low Light, please, sir? I think the industry, I mean, it's not only this week, but it's it's a bit still a bit shy. People are a bit, you know. I mean, I I run a restaurant in central London, and I think Mayfair has definitely changed. Berkeley Street, Berkeley Square used to be Mayfair, but I think that there is a drastic shift that happened. We are happy to be where we are on hand of a square. But I think they we still like almost everyone, lacking a little bit of bumps on seat. Unfortunately, whatever is happening around the world has a direct impact on us. So hopefully, with the kickoff of the spring, we'll lift the moral and the mood. But yeah, I think it's crazy. Yeah, we're a beautiful terrace, about 80 seats. And one of your neighbours closed yesterday at the Mondarin Oriental, the one-star Korean restaurant. Okay. After only five weeks after the mission of staff. Yeah, very weird. Hmm, not enough covers. But you're right about when the sun comes out and just everywhere gets buzzy. And you must there must be a direct correlation, right, with the spend levels, kind of the couples you're serving. It's exciting. I just got back from Paris, and oh, it's true what they say about springtime in Paris. There is no better place. It's absolutely positive and wonderful. So, no, no low light because I'm feeling so positive and spring light, but highlight was shouting out a member of staff from the hotel I was staying at, and she is the lady. I've been going to this hotel now for gosh, about six, seven years, always stay at the same place. And her smiling face is always there at breakfast, and she makes my experience. She's like the hotel ambassador. I speak in my failing French, she humo me and smiles, and she's just absolutely fabulous. I mentioned her to the GM just as I was leaving, and the GM was like, huh? Really? No one's ever said anything good about her. I think we all need to take a moment to say nice things about the team to the GMs. Because yeah, she was one of their secret hidden wonderful gems. And yeah, so that that was splendid. And then, same hotel, same restaurant, but I had quite a lot of room service just because I was doing a lot of calls and stuff. I just wanted to talk to you about kind of room service in hotels and kind of how much thought actually goes into making that a nice experience. Not enough. And funny enough, that's the project I'm working at a Marbella Club. Is that first, I hate the name, room service. So they don't consider most of the hotels in the world as a dining expert. They consider uh there's an amenity, we have to provide food 24 hours if it's a five-star hotel, or most of the day if it's four-star or lower. And then it's obviously often kind of the same menu around the world, Caesar Salad, club sandwich, and so on. But there's not enough, and they put like the B team in room service. Like not the best chef, not uh the best waiters, and it's never really an amazing experience. And what I'm trying to do at the Mario Club is that we're trying to say, it's a let's treat it as a restaurant, its own branding. One of the best chefs we put there, we um create amazing dishes. If we do a Caesar salad, it needs to be an amazing Caesar salad. And we wanted to do it like if it was like dining at home where you feel comfortable, when it's cozy, and it's a proper dining expense. It's not just eating a sandwich on the corner of your side bed table. But unfortunately, most hotels don't do it well. Good. I'm glad you're rebooting it, sir. Let me very happy to be your guinea pig. Okay. Now let's take a moment to talk about those moments, uh, that genuinely shaped you when you look back. What were the turning points? And they may have been people, bosses, people you worked with, could be dining rooms, might be mistakes you made, opportunities you took. Uh if we trace your amazing history looking at some of those milestone moments. I mean, moving to London for me was a big thing. What brought you? What was the decision? London was always a very attractive destination. Early 2000. As uh if you If you grew up in Paris and you were within the hospitality industry, the journey will be the States, will be New York, will be Miami, will be Los Angeles. We didn't have Dubai at the time. So we were, you know, rushing all to London. And I was very lucky when I arrived in London. I think after three days I got a job. I met David Bardot, which is the MG managing director of Roca. And he took me under his wing at Muse of Mayfair, where I spent two years. And that was my first experience here in London. And then he moved to Rocah, Charlotte Street, and he took me with him, right, where I spent four and a half years. And for me, it was what 2009, I think, where Roca Charlotte Street used to do three and a half thousand covers a week. And I was there every Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. And worked with amazing chefs, really. And I think at a very young age, I think I was about 27 years old at the time. I've learned very quickly consistency. And roca used to nail high volume and quality. It used to be amazing. I was mostly used to. I think yeah, everything has changed. You know, I think they have a lot of branches now around the world. You know, I used to work with them where you had two roca in London. So Charlotte should the first one and Canai Wolf. Now there's four. There is some rockers, you know, all around the world almost. And it was on the smaller scale, right? So I think they're still doing an amazing job. I'm still a customer there, I still love it. But the memory that I have is on way smaller scale. Has Charlotte Street changed? Because it always used to be kind of advertising agency world, and that's why it did that number of covers. And then, as we all know, the advertising agency world has just exploded in a bad way. Maybe it's not a great place to run a dining room now. No. The street has changed a lot. It used to be very fun and very cool to be around Charlotte Street. And now I think he has lost his charm, the spark. And it's it's I went there not long ago, and it looks pretty sad, to be honest with you. So it's unfortunate, but yeah, the memory that I have out of it is just, you know, something really special. And you ask me what shape you, it's definitely Rocash. For four and a half years. I want to go back there to Charlotte Street. Yeah, I haven't been to Rockash Street for years. We should do okay, Charlotte Street Hotel. I love the hotel. What else? What else? What else? Bosses, people you worked with, other dining rooms. Yeah, David Bardot is someone who was very important for me within my career. You know, old school hospitality. Worked for him for four years. And and really teach me about, you know, discipline, consistency, procedure, you know, the staff, the guests, and that real love of hospitality that that that it's it's kind of rare these days. That's great. Now you strike me as a man that's taken risks in his career, some big steps. Yeah. Have they ever gone wrong? Yeah, of course. Tell me. I I made, you know, I think like every young person, you get attracted by names, title, and and salary. But you know, I think I wanted to explore and I allowed myself to explore. My background is more independent restaurants. You can see in my background, I've gone to hotel, I've gone to Shangri-La, for example, where it was not really for me, but I wanted to try it out. Because within that experience, I think I loved a lot about myself and more about the corporate environment. Looking within the moment, I think it was not the right decision. But when I look back at it, I think it's what the right decision to allow yourself to try and make those mistakes. So I'm within the yeah, I'm quite happy I've done it. Love it. All right, we now play a little game called Under Pressure, where I present a number of scenarios to you, all of which I'm sure you've faced at some time in your career, and you let me know what you would do under pressure. So let's randomly pick a card from the stack. Okay, here we go. It's number two. Your mid-service, a full house, tickets building. Your head chef takes off the apron and walks out. What's your most first move? Well, funny enough, I've I've uh you know I've experienced that. I've experienced that way too many times. But for me, as an operator, you always should have a very good second in command. You you if you have a good head chef, you need a good sous-chef. So if the sous chef is on day off, the GM needs to step in. Yep. And guess what? You're gonna do the pass, mate. So you've done it a few times. Yeah, I've done it a few times. I've done the past, calling the courses, and it's fun. You know, but I think it's very important where chaos happens, that everything needs to remain the same and it's calm, and the guests shouldn't see any changes within the operation. So it's the art of you know cooling everyone, and everything's gonna be fine at the end. So it's just exactly lots of it. All right, let's pick another one. Card six. All right, it's late in the evening. One of your oldest regulars is in, he's much loved, he's known to everyone. They've had a good meal, a bit of wine, and now they're slumped at the table, head down, not moving. Table's gone quiet. The restaurant's gone a bit quiet. Staffer, I'm sure. Someone quietly says, Is he asleep? Someone else isn't so sure. What do you do? I think is what you want to do is to not embarrass the guest, of course. So I will very gently sit down next to the guest and try to wake him up and ensure that no one sees what's really happening and and ask him if he's okay or if he needs anything that you know, if he wants us to call him a taxi or something, but definitely not embarrassing the guest, that's for sure. And what also what what what would you do if he wasn't asleep? For me, it was hard to gun. Oh well, that's a different scenario. Did it happen? No. No. Touch wood, touch wood, touch wood, no. Not even when you took over from the head chef. Uh no, no, no, no, no, no. Good. I'm glad. We'll make that continue. All right. Final card card number three. It's busy, controlled, but tight. The owner of the restaurant walks in unannounced. They don't like the music, they don't like the table plan, they don't like the menu. They start adjusting things and the team can see it and it's uncomfortable for everyone. How do you handle it? I can see this smile I had many times, many times. Yes. You know, I think it's very important that there's no point to stress. You know, the owner wants to make a change, doesn't like the music, doesn't like the lighting. It's absolutely fine. Let me adjust it. Let me take note on what you want. So next time when you come to the restaurant, to your restaurant, it will be the right music and the right lighting. So again, I think it's very important to portray that you are in control and there is no reason to panic, especially during the service. Good answer, sir. Okay, so moving forward, let's look at the future, Antoine. Exactly, the future. The reason we created that podcast is also to inspire the young generation. And as we know, it's quite a negativity about the industry at the moment. So, what would you say to someone interesting to join the hospitality? How do you see things getting better in the future, hopefully in London and in the UK? I think you you have to be patient to work in hospitality. You know, I don't think so. It's an environmental that you have instant gratification. It takes time. You know, I used to learn that if you want to move to chef the opposition, you have to be two years as a commie. Things have changed and people want to grow very rapidly. But I think it's, I will say pretty much enjoy the ride. It's fun, right? You have the chance to meet a lot of interesting people. You, I mean, the where I worked, we have about 35 different nationalities, you know. There's not many industries where you have that melting pot of people where you learn about stories. Some of the employees tell me some stories. It's it's so interesting, you know, you're very nourishing about it. So, you know, a young lad who wants to start in hospitality, I will say just relax, observe, make the most of it. You yearn for a ride, and and and again, have fun with it. It's a very fun industry. You're able to travel and and to test some beautiful food and work with a lot of passionate people. So yeah. What do you think these people and don't see hospitality as a career in UK? I think it's a culture thing. Pretty much where I'm from, hospitality is a career. He has more of a job. I think we had a bit of a shift with more the head chef, right? The head chef was lots of them being incredibly famous on TV and so on, not so much for the front of us. But it's it's it's yeah, it demands a lot of long hours, it demands you know a big commitment. I think it will take time for the industry to to to change the way we are seen. But we're on a good path, to be honest. If I think to your career, because it's been like a ladder, I've gone up and up and up and up. How much time do you spend thinking about the next step? Or do these things just happen? I don't think about it anymore. Just happen. Yes. I'm just really enjoying where I am, and I'm really enjoying being part of something. I think when you are younger, you are constantly chasing something. Now my age, you know, I'm very happy where I am. And and and you know, whatever happens happens. But it's it's you know, it's great, you know. Are there many mentors in the hospitality industry? Like formal mentoring programs for a for a kid starting in a restaurant aged 18? No, hotels have management training program where during 18 months they take a young graduate from hotel school and so on to work in every department in order to groom them and to get a full 360 of the different jobs, some departments, etc., in the hotel. But restaurant now, really, unfortunately. We had a bit so house, there was some management training program, which did well actually. There's a lot of them I'm still in touch with that done extremely well on our nowadays, GN, after yeah, six, eight, ten years. So it's great to see, but not many uh companies do it. I see some companies now interesting in doing it by creating what they call Academy, which is kind of an in a long induction where they take you for like two weeks of training about the culture of the company, the vision, the step of service, the standards they want to give on the treatment to the guests that they want to give. But it's a big investment. Oh worth it, I think, because then you will have more loyal customers, more consistency, more people that are inspired, and then more loyalty as well, because unfortunately the turnover of staff is hospitality is usually 60%. So a lot of people living in in one year. Did you have any other questions about the future, Antoine? You never thought about opening your own restaurant? Yes when uh When can we go to Casa Auréno? Uh I don't I don't know, but I don't think so. It will be in London. Would it be in a city? Potentially. But I I don't know. You know, I think I think I'm quite busy enough with what I'm doing at the moment and I'm really enjoying it. Opening my own restaurant in London, I think, would be such a challenge. It's incredibly expensive to to to open a restaurant. You really need some serious cash flow. Yeah, let's see what the future holds, but it's do you want your kids to work in hospitality? You got a boy and a daughter. I have a girl and a boy, yeah. They're very interested in what I do. They ask me a lot of questions. Yeah. They love coming to the main, they love going to the kitchen, looking at the chef. They love food. And yeah, I mean, if they want to work in hospitality, yes, you know, go. Go do it, have fun, enjoy. You know, it's it's a beautiful thing. But yeah, let's see, they're still very, very young. So let's see. Through my friendship with Antoine over the years, I've had the real privilege of meeting lots of people from the hospitality industry. And everyone does strike me as so happy and passionate about what they do. And that's a rare privilege, right? I come across lots of lawyers and accountants who just want to kill themselves. Yeah. So to see the glow and the buzz that comes from people that work in your industry. Oh, the secret? No. It's looking after people. Which I think it's it's what happiness is about. It's happiness is not about you getting the best, I don't know, house holidays, cars. It's to share something with people, to give an experience to people, to look after them on having a great time and the satisfaction you get out of that is amazing. Oh, I love that. Before we let you go, sir, we want to keep building this room that is no reservation properly. Which general managers or operators should we be speaking to next and why? I mean, again, I mentioned his name. For me, someone that shaped my career is definitely David Bardo. He's probably one of the godfathers of hospitality industry in London. I know him, so I will invite him. Very old school, but I mean, how many GM David has helped to go through the rank? I was definitely one of them. Is he still in charge of Rocah? He's still in charge of Roca globally. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, great guy. Great guy, and and real love of hospitality. You know, you can feel the love, you can feel the passion, still after probably 35 years of hospitality industry. And I think it's it's very motivating. So the younger generation needs to listen to someone like that and and hopefully get them excited about you know how the next 10, 20 years is going to look for the hospitality worldwide and also in London. That sounds like we have our next take. Well, there we go, sorted. Yeah. Thank you. That's been really insightful, and yeah, I've loved hearing about your career. In hospitality, a reservation guarantees you a seat, but doesn't guarantee you a great night. That part is earned. It's earned by the people you rarely see. And that's who this podcast is all about. Thank you for listening. This is no reservation. Thank you. Well done. Thank you, guys.