Antoine Melon | The Origin Story

Every great restaurant, hotel or club has two lives — the one you see, and the one that actually runs it.

In this episode, Antoine Melon and Gideon Lask turn the lens on themselves — sharing how they see hospitality from the inside and the outside, and why NO RESERVATION exists in the first place.

From early experiences to the habits you pick up over time, this is a conversation about what shapes your standards, what you start to notice, and why most of what matters in hospitality isn’t visible to the guest.

This is where it starts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Hi, Gideon Lask. AK Gideon Lask. And today we're explaining the origin of No Reservation, the podcast. Most episodes, as I'm sure you all know, we sit down with operators, people who build and run hospitality businesses, and we unpack how they got there. The moments that shaped them, the decisions that mattered, and when it actually takes, and what it actually takes when the room is full and things are under real pressure. But today, no guest. Well, no traditional guests anyway. Just the two of us. Say hello, Antoine. Hello. How does it feel with me running this show, mate? Looks strange to be on the other side on being questioned. I think it feels right. I think it feels natural. You, yeah. The boss. Now listen, every story has a starting point. And we've spent a lot of time asking other people about theirs. So it felt right to answer those questions ourselves. This is the origin story episode. Not dramatic, just the real version. The early experiences, the habits you pick up, the things you notice that most people don't, and how that shapes how you see hospitality. But before we get into all of that with Antoine, I should probably introduce myself properly. Because usually my mate Antoine does that for me. And I do it real well. But given that that's not happening, so how do I introduce myself best? Well, I am, by most definitions, a difficult guest. I think anyone that knows me will agree.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I have actually no, can I say it's actually funny because all the people that we interviewed that, oh yeah, I remember you like fondly.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Fondly with a smile. Indeed, I have never been to a restaurant and not asked to change table. And I have never been to a hotel and not asked to change room. Not dramatically, well, sometimes, but it's just maybe consistently. Because I notice things, and once I notice them, I unfortunately can't unsee them. Um to be fair, I am also very quick to give positive feedback. I think you'd agree, Antoine. But when something is done well, but I am just as quick to give constructive feedback too when it's not. Uh, which has had consequences. My mother, hello Judith, now hesitates before dining with me. And that's obviously quite a clear. Really? Really? My kids too, mate. Uh so I imagine kids are like, Dad, dad, please don't do it, don't see it. They just they just don't come out with you now. They they let me go into a restaurant before then get it all sorted out, then they join. Um, but listen, I am trying to say less, not always successfully, but I am trying. And I think that's why this pod really works, because I experience hospitality from the outside, but I pay attention to it in a way that maybe most people don't. Um, and Antoine, uh, you've lived it from the inside at every level. So this really is about those two perspectives brought together. But listen, before we introduce Antoine properly, and he's itching to talk, maybe he's itching with something else, I'm not sure, but I think to talk, it's worth pausing uh and explaining why this all exists. And so, Antoine, what I'm interested in is why did you start all of this, please?

SPEAKER_01 3:43

So, I mean, we we kind of brainstorm the two others. I think that the idea was to give positivity on a sector which at the moment is probably suffering more than ever in UK. Um, so I think it was important to show that there's uh there's a sun on the other side or there's bright light, and hospitative is still thriving. People enjoy it. There's still many restaurants opening all the time on great operators, uh, but it's just harder, harder to make it a successful business for sure. Then it was true also, I think there's been a lot of TV shows, interviews, podcasts about chef and celebrity chef over the last 20 years been quite impressive. Um, but maybe we haven't given enough light to the people that make hospitality, people that actually join the front of us, the back of us, the um making that everything's bind together works well, which are the job manager, the operation manager, which they do actually a lot. And without them, there would not be a business, uh, most of the time. So I think it's nice to give them the time to have a voice, explain their stories, explain the background. And on all the people we've invited, their answer was yes right away, because I think they be able to give the opportunity to talk about their career and the places they've worked. And then also to inspire the young generation. Again, I think in UK, unfortunately, people don't automatically see hospitality as a career path. So we wanted to show that yes, no, it's not your summer job, it's not only for uh doing university, but it could be an amazing career that gives you lots of satisfaction. And finally, probably, yeah, for all the listeners, the foodies, the people that enjoy going to restaurant to know about it, getting some insights on gossip and yeah, I'd information about a place you like to go from the people that work there.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

There I was thinking you were doing it just for the free lunches and hotel space. Um altruistic of you, Antoine. Mate, why did you bring me into it, of all people?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Well, because as you say, I think you are a demanding customer, but also you love to recognize the stars uh that work in uh in hospitality. And so many times you say, Oh my god, you should talk to that person because I think she's or he is a talent, and maybe you can help them in their career. That shows you care about it. And I know I've seen you complaining a few times, which yes, it could be embarrassing as the people across the table. But you always do it for the right reason. And I think unfortunately, maybe in the culture here, people don't uh say out loud what they think about it, and it's only like through Google reviews and so on that they would put their frustration on paper. So I think it's always better to uh be outspoken and kind of as as long as you say it in a constructive way, uh, because the only way we can improve and do better is getting feedback from the customer directly.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Thank you. Antoine, I feel humbled and honored to join you on this pod. And for me, I'm just getting to meet some amazing people. Um, I don't think there is a career or profession out there where I consistently find just such lovely, lovely people. And I guess it makes sense alongside maybe something like nursing. People go into this to look after other people. And so, yeah, it says something about the great wonderful hearts these people have. All right, now let's do this properly. Regular listeners will know that I give or attempt to give a somewhat cinematic introduction to our guests. And Antoine has been knacking me all week for a little preview of what I was going to say, feeding me words and sentences to use, all of which I've ignored. So, Antoine, who are you? Well, Antoine has worked across almost every version of hospitality. Restaurants, hotels, resorts, members' clubs, across multiple countries and environments. The early years are operational, learning service properly, understanding how things actually run. Then restaurants, where you move from doing the job to being responsible for the outcome. And then building, opening sites, developing concepts, then international scale, large hotels, complex resorts, operations where consistency matters every day. And then back to the UK. Multi-site leadership, large teams, and growing businesses without losing any standards. And then more recently, home tamement, creating hospitality experiences in the comfort of your own space, making it accessible and affordable while remaining unique and memorable. Consulting, talent search, building new concepts, still hospitality, just from a wider perspective. Bloody hell, I feel exhausted, Antoine. You must feel properly knackered. What a career you have had, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, I think I started hospitated when I was obviously I was living in Lyon where I'm born, and I went to Lausanne Hotel School, and that just opened the door of international opportunities. Um first, it was the first time I was meeting so many people from different backgrounds. I think we were like 35 nationalities in those days. Um and surrounded by people from all over the world, from different cultures, made me want to discover the world, but not by traveling there, just by working in those countries where it's the best way to learn about the people, their habits, their food habits. Um, and so yeah, I've been very fortunate to work in 11 countries across my career. When people ask you what you do, what do you say? Yeah, I say I work in hospitality, and every time they say, what do you say? I think the word hospitality the word hospit with a French accent, it's very hard. It means nothing. So it's hard actually because when I was yeah, ops director or manager director for So House UK, or it's easy to explain. Now that probably I've got different arms to um my job, it's it's hard to say, yeah, I touched so many things in hospitality. Hometainment obviously being bringing the best of hospitality in the comfort of your home, but at the same time I've developed talent search because I was always asked if I could help people to find the right person for their site. And having been 30 years in hospitality, I think I've always had a good eye to connect the right people because it's not only based on experience, it's based as well on emotional tangents, for example. So yeah, I kind of a 360 hospitality expert, even if he does say so.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

So um wonderful. Um, so listen, on to first connections. Uh let's start this pod properly. How we always do, discussing how we meet our guests. Um, answer on it was probably what 30, 40, 50 years ago now. It feels like an eternity, but a wonderful friendship. How did we actually meet? Do you remember? Very well. Too well.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So 76 Dean Street. I just started saw a house. It was in January 2015, and I think we opened probably in June, and it was a big project, and the biggest opening for me with SARS just started. Um, and then I've got this beautiful young blonde lady that came to see me. We were the opening, it was very hands-on deck, the two houses put together with four floors, so it was quite a difficult site to manage. It was packed, it was the latest one, full of amazing members, celebrities, and so on, with the pressure of the flag, the um head office next door, so the bosses, Nick Jones, Martin Kosmaske, all everyone was there. So I've got this blonde lady that comes to see me and say, Can you come with me? Yeah, sure. What can I do for you? Strange request. No, I want to I want to show you someone. Okay, I was like, oh, what does she want to do with me? Anyway, I kindly follow her and then she introduced me to this guy you called Gideon Lasque and say to him, if you're not nice with me, I go with him because he would be my option B. Which is a very strange reaction. Didn't know what to say. I think I laughed nervously and um and sat down on the had a drink with them. And it's the beginning of our great friendship.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Well, indeed. I think that night it wasn't a case of Nikki, who was the beautiful blonde leaving with Antoine. It was actually me leaving with Antoine for more drinks and leaving Nikki to it, which has defined really uh the tenure of our relationship. Gosh, how many years ago was that now? I was uh 11, yeah, it's 11 years. Goodness me, 76. You marry her. I married her. Yes. Um I think you're still her plan. It was thanks to me then. I think it's uh worse. I was the blue. All right, so listen, uh, before we get on to work stuff, let's rewind a little bit. I'd love to talk about your earliest memories of hospitality, but as a guest rather than a professional.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Um, so easy. I was seven years old. Um my parents, big foodies, used to go to a restaurant two or three times a week, easily in those days. And even on Wednesday, they would pick me up from school and take me to a street, a pedestrian street with a lot of great bouchons lyonnais, as we call it. Uh, as my father was working nearby in the center of Lyon. Um, so I would join my parents after school and have nice lunches with them. So I was kind of very early age accustomed to dining restaurants, not obviously the etiquette on the behavior you need to have. And then for my seventh birthday, they invited me to a three Michelin star restaurant um called Paul Boucuse, who Monsieur Paul, as we call him, is um a mentor for so many French chefs. He created Nouvelle Cuisine which became international and he opened a restaurant in Japan in the States and had three Michelin stars for 40 or 50 years, the longest ever. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years back. Um but went to his restaurant, obviously, as a seven-year-old kid, you're very impressed. Uh, had a full adult degustation menu. He came to the table, tallest man I ever seen, because of course he was wearing that white traditional uh chef hat, uh, which was only created uh, by the way, I think in the 18th century, just to people wonder why it's to uh collect the sweat of the um forehead and also get some hair into uh because of the heat of the kitchen, by the way. And took me to the kitchen and everything was so well organized. We call it a brigade, a kitchen team, which is named after the Metri brigade. And everyone, yes, chef, everything was spotless, so well organized, so professional, it was very, very impressive. So took me back by his hand to my parents' table, offered me a nice replica of his Gian 6 car that he used to go to the market with to pick up the fruit on a vegetary basis. Um, so that I was so impressed. I said to my parents, this is what I want to do. I just fell so at his so loved it and became passionate about it. Um, so that was seven years old and I knew I want what I wanted to do, which is very rare for having young kids. Did you ever meet him subsequently and tell him the story? I met him a couple of times after. A friend of mine actually that I studied with in hotel school, Bertrand Jalra, went to work with him to look after his uh labye next door to his three Mission Star restaurant waiters' weddings. And uh come to meet Mr. Paul, and he was a very uh uh peculiar man. He's famous. I read his actually a biography of a beautiful book recently. He had three wives or three women in his life. The official one, he's which was very well known, who was running the front of us. He had a lover and two lovers actually, one that he had a child with. I mean, very messy. Wonderfully French. So he will have his lunch in his kind of dining room adjacent to the restaurant. But he will be like the mafia guy, you know, like big guy on his wife in the corner of the table, and eating on the chef bringing food to him. So he will like receiving like the crowd, like the royalties you used to do. So you will be standing in front of him while he's eating with his fingers, his food. You're like, uh hi, I'm Antoine. Um so I told him, I think, the story at that time. And he was like, Yeah, come on, sit down. And someone get him some food. So shut him up. So uh I was able, I was like, yeah, I was fed by him next to him. Um yeah. I mean, he's uh he's a legend for for a lot of people, but he was not such a nice man. I mean, he was he was tough, he was uh he blocked a lot of people career as well because he didn't want other people to have three stars. I mean, it's a very uh competitive marker, and uh, but he's done a lot for French cuisine reputation abroad for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Do we see the same competition amongst operators and GMs? I haven't sensed that. I sense it's very collaborative.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

It's a good question. It's true that I think there's much more competition in the kitchen than Front of Us. Fond of us, there's more like camaraderie, um, where yeah, people support each other, people yeah, there's not so much jealousy. But the competition was created as well by the Michelin guide, as you know, uh, which really put again the chef on the map where the Michelin guide was created by Michelin of Tire Company originally as a complementary guide given into the cars to encourage people to travel mice using their ties. Exactly. Or when they were to change the ties, where could they wait? Because you could wait kind of half a day of those days to get your tie change. Where can I eat meanwhile? So he had those places, one star was like great good food, second star was great food, and third star was worth a travel. Um, so that's how it started. But then the competition to get Michelin star to get one, two, or three is now reckless. And you got Michelin Gai in I don't know how many cities, maybe 30 around the world. And there's only eight, I think, or nine three Michelin star restaurants in UK.

unknown 19:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

It's insane, isn't it? Wow. Yeah, only.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Well, my friend, let's bring it to now. Uh, what was your highlight and low light of the week, please? Okay, so lots of it.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Highlight was I went to a new restaurant called Cecy, which is part of the public house group in Notting Hill, used to be called Casa Cruz. So they kept most of the design very Hollywood glamour, and Cecy is like this actress from Hollywood in those old days. Um it's quite golden mirrors, very elegant. Definitely you need to look your best part to go there. On the food, everything was amazing, and it's often where I feel like it's not only about the food, it's the way you were welcomed. The one of the owners who I know well was there, and it's warmth on the staff attention. And I recognize a couple of staff from other places have been. Hi Antoine, great to see you here. It just felt like so nice to be uh very nicely welcomed, to see again hospitality thriving, to see a beautiful place giving back life. And the food was stunning. It was a chef they had from X-River Cafe. So with beautiful Italian food, with product at its center, seasonal, not trying to hard, amazing food, and just everything was like as it should be and perfect. So how many covers? Um, it's two floors. They probably have 70 covers. I think it's more of a naming place open like six days a week in Nottinghill. I recommend to everyone say.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Nice. Any low lights?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah, not one particular situation, but sometimes you go to places and you the lack of ownership, the lack of attention to details is upsetting. Especially when you know how competitive, how hard it is at the moment in hospitality that when the tables are dirty, when the hostess is aggressive, do you have a booking instead of like uh welcome and smile and eye contact, which are it's so simple to do it right, but sometimes you feel like, oh my god, this is like the worst experience. And I don't want to come back, even if the food is amazing, and I'm just yeah, sometimes wish that people were yeah, taking more ownership and be care more careful about looking after guests, because that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah, there's so many different facets to it, aren't it? Of which the the dining room and the food is but one. But yeah, that tender loving care in the rest in the in the dining room is so important. Um I've just got back from Norway skiing. Um, highlight, because I'm a positive guy. I like to start with the highlights. Um, you know, all over the world people will talk about we've got the best cocktail or the best burger or the best whatever, whatever. And it never is. It's always wildly disappointing. I was in Bergen. It's incredibly expensive to do anything in Norway, especially eat. And so being the frugal man I am, the idea of a the world's best hot dog stand actually appealed. And so I had hot I went to some place called uh Trek Roneren. Forgive me anyone Norwegian, I'll have one more go at it. Trek Kroneren. If you're in Bergen, you know it. And mate, Antoine, it was the best hot dog I've ever had in my entire life. Really? It was just phenomenal. What was good about it? It was called a cheese dog. It was bacon, just stood outside the stand looking at Bergen Harbour, which is lovely, and it lived up to the billing, mate. What I did find in Norway, yes, it's all insanely expensive, but the food, brilliant. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Madly expensive, like probably two or three times lunch. You felt it was uh authentic Norwegian food, or it was more influenced by Chris and Fomorovic? Gen generally authentic Norwegian food. So, yes, that was wonderful. Um, low light for me, not a restaurant, but a hotel. Um, and I wanted to ask you what you like the one in Paris again with the smell. Not the one with the smell. Um, although they have invited me back, which is very sweet of them. Um so what would you do if you ran this hotel? So checked in, lovely room, really happy with it. And then about five o'clock, the Apre Ski Club began and it was right under the room, like literally just under the room, and it went till 1.30 in the morning. So noise. Yeah. I mean, what A, why would you put a bedroom above a nightclub? And when I went and understandably asked for a change of room, they said, Oh yeah, everyone always complains about that room. So what why do you rent it out? Why would you not warn the guests in advance? Explain.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, I mean, that's silly because they they definitely should do some proofing then. Uh, because they will have that complaint all the time. And at the end, if they compound all the giveaway discount they have to do, because every time they have a complaint, it's costing them a fortune. They don't realise that. Um but unfortunately, yeah, someone thought, oh, let's put as many rumors as possible, so let's put one above the club when it should have been maybe something that's used during the day, like a spa, and then it closed when it's becoming uh downstairs.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Uh I did end up in the honeymoon suite there. So don't worry, listeners. It worked out okay, as typically it does. Um so Anton, we spoke about you as a guest and kind of what made you fall in love with hospitality. Um, but let's now turn to the kind of those pivotal moments in your your career. Um take me way back. Like you said you went to hotel school, um, and and it's clearly there's a correlation there between your experience and the dining room and going to hotel school. But tell me about the people you've met, the dining rooms you've worked in, the mistakes you've made. Chart me through your career, please, sir.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Well, I prepare a little bit before coming. So I actually when I look at it, I was trying to be, oh I cannot say everything is so long. Um, but every experience has been always kind of an amazing experience. So you learn something. So of course Paul Baku's on then going to Lausanne Hotel School and do uh a business BA in uh hospitality management, open the the doors of international opportunities. And one of the pivotal moments as well was working for Sir Terence Conrad. I was with him for six years, and I think I've done six or seven openings for him. Bluebird, King's Road, Alcazar, Paris. Um, I was acting GM of Quaglino's in its A days when a restaurant was like the most popular restaurant in London. Opened Stockholm, Convine restaurant for him, Manchester with zinc, um, and then run a Coque d'Argent in the City, which became the most profitable restaurant of the company. And he was a visionary. Obviously, he created Habitat, he created Convine restaurant, he created a Convine shop. Um hard man to work with, very opinionated. Um, but he taught me that uh the design is in the details and it's everything that's part of uh a concept. It's not only obviously the food in a plate, but it's the the design of the plate, it's the tabletop, it's the music, it's the ambiance, it's the everything counts. And that was a big lesson for me and uh a great mentor. And unfortunately passed away a few years back, but I've got fond memories on those days when all his restaurants he was opening in London were a massive success. Another pivotal moment is when with one of my childhood friends Kaim, we opened our first restaurant together in Madrid called Cafe Oliver. And it was an amazing success because I think we put our heart and soul and into the concept. It was kind of uh bringing a bouchon lyonnais style, but adapting it to the market of Madrid. So we had like uh Mediterranean cuisine, but very clear country, the Mediterranean. So we had Moroccan cuisine, French, uh, Italian, and Spanish. So dishes from those four countries on the menu. We had a cocktail bar downstairs, which when we opened in 2002 for Madrid was very new, didn't really have anything like that. And then we had a brunch, which didn't exist in Madrid apart from a buffet at the rates, very different type of offering. So at the beginning, people were like, Okay, so brunch, I really have breakfast, I don't want breakfast-lunch. People were like taking the minion and walk away, like leaving the table and leave the restaurant. I'm like, oh my god, what did we do wrong? And then actually the few famous Spanish actors like we had uh Eleanor Watling, who at that time just did the latest movie from Almodobar, the famous movie director, who used to work, live in New York, move back to Madrid, and use the the brunch as Cafe Oliver as her place to be on with friends on a Sunday. And then it became a massive hit. And we had 200 people every Sunday when we had only like 60 seats, and we had a queue waiting list on the most amazing people in Spain in Madrid coming there. Um, we quickly opened three of the restaurants with different business partners, maybe a little bit too fast, maybe a little bit also too avant-garde as concept for Madrid, which was still very conservative. Um, and that's definitely one of mistakes. So unfortunately, um yeah, it became difficult and then 2008 crisis hit. So sold my share and moved to Hong Kong. Mandarin-Oriental Hong Kong, moving from being your own bus for six years and having your own restaurant to being a food and beverage director in Hong Kong in at that time, top three hotels in the world was a massive challenge and definitely a pivot. Um, I had to work extremely hard to catch up that kind of professionalism, speed, efficiency that I kind of lost in Spain, where everything was like manana, very relaxed. But yeah, I mean, wow, the Hong Kong is so efficient. I mean, if you don't answer an email in two hours, it's being rude. You have to be like really, really strong. And then the Michelin guide actually was coming out in Hong Kong during my tenure. So we had a pressure of trying to get as many stars and as many restaurants. And when I left after three years, we were the only hotel in Asia having three restaurants out of the seven restaurants we had with Michelin star Pierre Gagnier, two star The Grill with Uve Opochinski, one star, and Manwa, a Chinese restaurant, also one star, which was amazing. So amazing time in my career. Maldives after that. Again, massive people doing a resort, which I never did before, opening Six Census Lamou in a very remote location of the Maldives, in with a hotel that unfortunately had two years of delay. I had four GM within a year as I was a resort manager. Um beautiful property.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

What's the difference between a GM and a resort manager at a location like that?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

So we call it the result, the result manager is like the number two. So in another hotel, you're probably gonna call assistant jar manager or EAM, we call it sometimes in hotel, executive assistant manager with a focus in charge of food and beverage or in charge of rooms. So resort manager would be at the number two of the GM. And so again, we had some delay. So I went to their flagship, Sonova Fushi, uh, which was the first kind of five-star hotel in Maldives, looking after amazing guests such as Madonna, Michael Schumacher. Uh we had a president of Ukraine of that time. I mean, the level of Crime Tell was amazing. And actually, what they were enjoying about that hotel, the luxury was about the barefoot. And that's how the expression started. No shoes, no news. Exactly. No shoes, no news from barefoot luxury. And it was a great lesson to see that a luxury doesn't have to be gold and marble and the best uh materials, but also about close to nature and giving the best local experiences. Then Trisara, independent hotel, privately owned Thai family in Phuket, with probably one of the biggest competitions across the road, Amman Puri, which was the first Amman hotel in the world and the most successful, and working with Anthony Lack, who opened Amman Puri as the GM, then moved years later with Trisara as a mentor, was amazing. Um and actually we were in terms of KPI beating Amman Puri as in terms of yeah, average room rate, occupancy, uh, despite being a little hotel independently owned compared to uh Aman brands. So that was, and when I was there, I became job manager there, from resource manager to jam manager, taking over Anthony in his how to fill those shoes because he's a legend. And um, yeah, we were it was the first year actually that we achieved budget in these 10 years of existing, creating a new restaurant, seafood restaurant, and looking after uh yeah, amazing uh clientele that we had and huge regulars.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

As a GM of a resort like that, how much influence do you have on, I guess, the owner's investment in the concept? So you mentioned a new restaurant there. Was that your idea or their idea or a collaboration?

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Well, they were very uh great owners. So often in hospitality you calculate a certain percentage of your revenue will be invested as Capex for the following year. I would say most of properties is between 5 to 10%. Um, so as a GM, you're the one ideally that should give uh IDs influence of how do you want that money to be used in order to keep improving your property, making sure that it still remains competitive and also incremental revenue, whether it's a new spa, an additional outlet, you have to come up with those ideas. Uh so I was part of the board of directors. We had two people external that were extremely smart and very successful in hospitality that as well could give their opinion. And together, one of us would present ID and into the board for discussion and um to be approved. And that was a great way to do it, I think. It worked well. Um, so because they knew my strength was food and beverage, um, yeah, they allowed me to uh to go ahead and add an additional restaurant because we only had one. Uh, and the property had 40 beautiful pool villas, all of them ocean view, all of them with their own pool as a 200 meter bedroom, plus we had 22 private residences, similar to Amanpuri concept, where we built in the beautiful properties private residents that were sold and managed by it. Uh, which Aman Puri was the first one to do in the world. Twissa did 10 years ago, and not every hotel chain around the world has why are we not recording this podcast at Aman Puri, Antoine?

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Why are we on Burmacy Street?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Let's do in Twissau better even better. Then another pivotal moment was the COO of So House, Martin Kosmarski, stay in my hotel. And obviously, because it was a small hotel, I was welcoming every guest on arrival. I was uh walking around the table at breakfast and at sunset to just check how people were doing, to show obviously to be present, to support the team, get some feedback and be able to act quickly. And and so I had a couple of drinks with Martin during his stay when he was there with his wife. And then months later, a year later, he called me and said, Would you like to join Saw House? Which at that time I had no clue what it was really, because when I left UK, I think there was only Greek Street. Um and then I say no the first time, because it was to do the opening of Farmhouse, which I was like, well, from Puket to Oxfordshire, didn't make sense for me. Um but the second time he asked me, Oh, we'd like we're looking for someone to run the UK operation, which I was like, wow, that sounds amazing. And I was divorcing at that time, so it was a perfect timing for me to come back to Europe, which I came to have a look on. I was so impressed by yeah, the diversity of the product because So Helsing 2015 was pizza is as a collection of restaurants, Dirty Burger, Chicken Shop, Chiconis, a lot of public restaurants that people and didn't realize they were part of the portfolio. Plus, obviously, all the existing, I think there were six or seven members' clubs in UK, and then we opened 76th Street Farmhouse and many more. Um, so massive pivotal moments. If he would have stayed, I'd probably still be in Thailand though, somewhere hidden in uh in Asia. And then uh one of the latest was Art Farm. After Sohaus, I went to work for Ozan with the Art Gallery, which was through her dunter contacting me and say it's a bit of a weird position, kind of new company doing hospitality, but they are art gallery. And I've always been interested in art and not a codesseur but more uh oficiado and to join art on hospitality. I thought it was very interesting, and uh and they had at that time only I think the restaurant in Somerset Roughbine Grill, and they had just opened a Lake with Manuela, and they had uh a pipeline of projects including the five farms which you've been in Scotland. And I think the vision was uh really impressive, what they wanted to do. So I joined them, and we had like two years of amazing project we worked on with was Minorca, LA, London, and so on, which today's have all been open. And the group is everything they've done so far has been really interesting quality and showing that art can be the glue between hospitality, the customers, and the local, which I think they've done extremely well with that.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

So many pivotal moments. What a career, my man. Yeah, I remember five arms very well. I don't recommend sleeping in the corridor there on New Year's Eve, but that's a story for another day. Um, Anton, under pressure. As you know well, this is where I pull out the cards. You choose them, and I put you under a pressurized situation to see how you, my friend, would react. So cards are out, point at one. All right, that's the first one. Um, all right, sir. It's mid-service, full house, tickets, a building. The kitchen is holding, but only just. Then the head chef takes off their apron and walks. Oh see, just gone. Your energy drops immediately. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Um, luckily, I would say that I don't think it has happened in my career. Um, but what you do is if it's a big service, you would definitely have the sous-chef. As we mentioned, the kitchen is organized as a brigade, so you've got a head chef, sous chef, then you've got a chef the party, which has the people responsible for a party will be the meat section, the fish section, fruit and veg. Well, no, sorry, veg section. Uh, maybe the sauce in the old days. Nowadays, sauce that don't buy the meat or the fish guy, but in the old days you have to have someone that was just associated. Um, the starters, and then of course you got a dessert guy. So every so you will have you a team always on the big service, Friday, Saturday for sure. So if the head chef, you probably will have the sous-chef number twin command that can step in. Otherwise, as a GM, I will I will step in. The only I can cook, but not really take the place of a chef de party for sure. I don't have those skills, but I will do the pass, which is the coordination of the orders where you call them out, where you make sure that is that all those chefs de party food they're preparing for one uh table is coordinated and come at the same time at a pass, so you can send it away, which is an art on itself. Um so that's what I would do. You have to take the jacket off, up the sleeve, put an apron, and let's do it. Service continue. And what you want is to make sure that the guests don't feel that there's has been that kind of incident. Protecting a guest, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Talking to guests, it's the end of the meal. There's a large bill. The guests say it wasn't good enough, and they're just not gonna pay. The team are watching, the guests are watching, the room is still very much alive but distracted. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Well, I'm gonna convert the image of question to a situation that happened to me. I almost had a fight once with a guest. I had a guest that came in the restaurant rushing, he had a 500 euro. It was in Cafori Valley, Madrid, uh note, and he wanted to ask us to change it. So of course the bartender says, Well, we're we're not a bank, we don't uh with all due respect. Oh, yeah, so you ordered like a coffee, which at that time was probably £1.50, you still have to give 498.50 change, which we tried to explain we didn't carry that much cash in the till. Uh, and he really became like arrogant and bully with the staff, to which obviously as an employee, you would always try to do it in a nice way and uh showing empathy. And for once I was like, and I've always remained calm normally. I was like, I'm the owner, so I can say whatever I want. So I took the guy out and I say, I was swearing to him, I say, you get out. We don't want you here. Well, you start to shout, I say, I'm the owner, I do whatever I want. Like, uh, I don't accept that you talk to our staff like that. We're not here to give change for people, um, and F off. Um and actually felt so good about it because sometimes in hospitality you got that frustration where you wish you could say to people when they're really misbehaving that it's not right. But of course, we uh learned to do deal with situation in a diplomatic way. So I did it in a way that I was like, yeah, proud of me. And I we're almost like fiston in the shirt.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Um, all right, final card for you. I I've picked picked one based on what you've just told me because you bounced around from being the owner to working for some pretty big egos out there in the world. Um, so let's put you back in a situation where you're working for one of those egos. Um, it's it's a busy service, the team is in rhythm, everything's going really well. The owner then walks in with a look on their face and they start changing things. They don't like the layout of the restaurant, they don't like the music, they don't like The team you've got working, the rhythm breaks. They're having a bad day, they want you to have a bad day. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Well, it has happened with all of them, whether it's Nick Jones, Well, um, yeah, Andre Balage, you can name it, all of them. At the end, it's their place. It's their decision. You have to, if you don't agree with them, yes, of course you should don't be shy and try to challenge it. And they will respect that you have an opinion as long as you say it in a diplomatic way, of course. Um, I mean, I would say if it's a middle of service, you everyone is under pressure. Um, yeah, you make it happen. And then if you don't agree, it's maybe not the right place to have an argument or to say, oh, but if I was you, I would do that. Just make it happen, and then have another opportunity and a quiet time to say, well, personally, I think we should I wouldn't I think we should do it differently, but and this is the argument. Um, but yeah, I mean it's it's their place.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

But you wouldn't challenge Nick Jones to a fight. No, no. If he did know who would win.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Um, I mean no, Nick Nick Nick can be quite uh vocal, but even sometimes, yeah, I felt that the way he was talking, maybe to me or to other people was a bit harsh. I it always comes from a good side of his heart. I think he he cares so much about the product and the people that if it's not done the way he wants or he thinks he's right, which I totally agree, then he will he will say it. The way maybe he was he was saying it was sometimes harsh to hear. Um, but I don't think he meant bad. I think he was always like thinking from the guest point of view.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Good. All right, listen, before we wrap, um I'd like to turn our minds and our conversation to the future, please. When you look at hospitality now, what what still works? What's getting harder? What needs to change? What advice would you give to people joining the hospitality industry or thinking of it right now?

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Wow, there's so many things that need to change. VAT first. The VAT is 20%, whereas most of European countries have a different VAT for hospitality for food and beverage of 10 or 8, uh, because the margin are so tight. Most of restaurants in London are doing 5 to 10% profit a bit, which means as soon as you got a bit of a slowdown, uh, like now with the war, everyone's worried, spend less, etc., it's killing the business. And there's two restaurants a day closing as we speak, because the margin uh people are just running out of money. They're um they're losing money, whereas maybe last year they were not because of the change as was in business, right? It's killing business. So that's one thing I would change. Um and I would say for operator, as long as you look after the people, the product, and the service, that what creates a soul which people love and appreciate and will come back for. Um and there's still restaurants that are doing extremely well. We talk about Martin Kosmarski, he's got Martino's, the Dover, the Dover Counter, which is what the best of possibility and what people are looking for on his pat all the time, despite uh many places closing. It shows that if you do it well, you can still do a performance being full. Um young generation, yeah, be passionate. Start at the bottom. Try to see what kind of restaurant you like so that you go to work to the places that inspire you or for mentors that inspire you. Talk to people from the industry. Like how many times have I been having conversations with young people that want to do spati and giving them advice? Uh I like that. I like to uh to give directions to people to uh and see them blossom in their career. And some of the people that we had as guests um hopefully have been part of helping them to become who they are today.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

That's beautiful, my man. Thank you. Thank you, Antoine. As you know, a reservation guarantees you a seat, but it does not guarantee a great night. That part is earned by the people you rarely see, and that is what this podcast is all about. Thanks for listening, everyone. This is no reservation.