Alex Field | KOKO, Six Senses and LVMH

Some people run rooms.
Some people build brands.
And some understand how the two shape each other.

Alex Field has spent his career working at that intersection — across Moët Hennessy, Six Senses, LVMH, Reignwood and The Birley Clubs.

From global marketing to private members’ clubs, from investment to operations, he’s seen hospitality from a different angle — not just how it runs, but how it’s experienced and valued.

This conversation is about that line.

What people actually notice.
What makes them stay.
And what matters when perception and reality meet.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:21

No reservation. I'm Antoine and I'm here with Gideon Lasque. Bonjour. I spend my career inside hospitality building and running restaurants and hotels, working alongside the people who carry the pressure when the room is full. Gideon approaches it from the other side as someone who lives in dining rooms and hotels and notices when something feels seamless and when it doesn't. The podcast is about the people who make hospitality work. The operators, the managers, the teams who hold standards, who shape experience, and who carry responsibility when it matters most. Or the storyteller of hospitality like our guest today. Each episode moves from beginning to defining chapters to the moment that tests judgment. And today we're joined by someone who has spent his career shaping how hospitality is experienced and marketed, not just delivered. Gideon, please introduce our guests.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Well I would love to, Ansoine, looking forward to talking to the dashing Alex. Professor, how are you, mate? I haven't seen you in a while. You've been away.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yes, I went to see my family for Easter in Provence. Oh, wonderful. How was Provence? I love it. I saw actually in our small village, I saw Eston Blumenthal, who lives there. Yes, he lives in Provence. He doesn't live in UK anymore. And yeah, it's the it's a small village of 400 people, but there's seven restaurants. That's quite crazy, isn't it? How wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

You keep promising to invite me. Yeah, you will one day. Thank you. Oh, well, maybe that will never happen. Who knows? All right, on to um Alex. So some people run rooms, some people build brands, and some understand how the two shape each other. Today we are joined by someone who spent his career working at that very intersection. Alex Field is a founder, a consultant, a longtime operator across luxury and the high net worth hospitality. Exactly the kind I like but can't afford. Over more than two decades, he's worked across some of the most recognized names in global luxe, from Moe Hennessy to Six Senses to LVMH. He moved into hospitality investment and operations with Rainwood working across Wentworth Golf Club under four seasons at Tower Bridge. He's led through complexity, including crisis management through COVID at the Burley Clubs. Most recently, he's been the patron program at COCO, shaping how high value guests experience a space, not just visit it. And today, through LF Connections and his work with Calafalco and Vita Vinci, he's focused on something broader, helping brands and places understand what people actually value in hospitality. Alex has seen the industry from a different angle, not just how it runs, but how it is perceived. And in hospitality, that line really matters. Alex, welcome to No Reservations, sir. Lovely to be here. A real pleasure. Now, before we begin, I'd love to know how you guys meet. How did it happen? Where did you guys first cross paths?

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Who remembers? I do remember. Alex, tell us. It was across a crowded room at the SAO house uh in White City. And Vincent Gile, who I'm having dinner with tonight at Coco, he introduced me to you. Another king of hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yes. Do you remember? White City it was. Yes, White City. Yes. Yeah, no, no, I do, I do. And that must be yeah, like seven years ago. Yeah, it's about seven years ago, yeah. Goodness me. We headed off straight away.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

How many years ago is that?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, I would say just before COVID, seven years ago, just when White City opened. Goodness me.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Yeah. How is White City doing? I don't know. Not so sure. I went to the new Manchester one very recently. It was right. Might be my most favourite one. Yeah, they kind of got it right. It doesn't feel like London's come to Manchester. It feels proper Manchester. In terms of the building and the space and interiors, just absolutely stunning. I didn't see any of the rooms, but certainly kind of the restaurant club space and the pool out. But it didn't feel like the interior looked like too much the ones in London. It was different. It it felt different. I mean it wasn't NAF. They didn't go all kind of Manchester on on it. It was just really nice. And they'd done, I think it's very deliberately as they tend to, kind of most of the team were from Manchester. Uh and Manchester's got a proper buzz about it now. It really is. Like construction's everywhere, cranes, new restaurants popping up. I know over the years Manchester always has its moment, but this feels very real. I'd urge you guys to go and uh have a taste of it. There's a lot of money being spent up there. A lot of money. Bedrooms? Hold on. They have got bedrooms, yeah, but didn't didn't see them. We should go back. Let's do a pod from up there. We'll do a recording. Voila. Okay, Alex. Um let's go back even before you met Antoine. To the very beginning, before the roles, before the brands, before the professional side of hospitality as a guest. Uh maybe it was a hotel, maybe a restaurant, maybe something else, a moment that stayed with you. Could you share, please, sir?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Do you know? So here's the irony is that I very rarely stayed in hotels when I was younger with my family. We always did quite kind of out-of-bounds camping trips in Scotland and just set up tents next to rivers and fish. Yeah, yeah. So really very different. And I think honestly, that's probably part of why I enjoy working in in the sort of high-end hospitality world, because you want to create those same magical experiences that are not contrived, that are not created for you, just natural, and see if you can bring them into a more controlled environment. So yeah, no, my first really experiences of wonderful holidays and hospitality was created by ourselves. I wonder. Yeah. I drank my first bottle of Krug. I hope it sounds as though I've drank a lot of Krug. I do remember an experience where it was a surfing trip on a beach and we cooked some sausages and had a bottle of Krug. Wow. I hope it was chilled. Of course. And you were above 18. I was I was about 18 and 19. Well no, I must, I was probably about 19, was that? Yeah, yeah. No, it's in Cornwall. Yeah. That was a magical experience. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Alright, let's bring it right up to date. Highlight of your hospitality week, please, gentlemen. And low lights. Uh Answan, over to you, sir.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

The hero in Medaville, first because I'm moving back there tomorrow, actually. And what the Public House Group has done with the hero, and in general with their pub that it took over, such as the Pelican, that was the first one four years ago. It's great what the pub of the 21st century should be, or what people are expecting from a pub to be still a centre of community for the locals, but also nice service, good food, a place that's slightly sophisticated but still a pub. And that's when they've been extremely successful in everything they touched, they've done it extremely well. And bring food that's kind of still the classic pub food standards that you expect, but more elevated, like food, like tasty and great produce, and the kind of food you want to eat like on a daily basis. And I always people ask me often, why do you think they're so successful when the hospitality is struggling? I also think they've done a pub towards the woman. And the Pelican was light colours, no TV, no smell, quite feminine, sophisticated, elegant, and it has attracted a lot of Notting Hill female crowd that probably was never going to a pub. So I think they've done extremely well. And that restaurant is boom, I mean a pub, which is over the fourth floor. They have like an apartment top floor, which I think is very smart as well, it's like an open kitchen. Has completely changed Medaville, and they're doing like really busy for uh a place that you don't expect Mederville to be that uh and I've seen the back camp there. I've seen like a lot of celebrity people hanging out there.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Antoine, you you mentioned the pub smell. Um Alex and I, before the pod began, we're talking a lot about kind of fragrance and hospitality. The pub smell, it's disgusting. It's toilets.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Is it really hard to deal with? Most of the time the smell I get, it used to be the smell of the beer, the uh it's the yeast, it's often because the pipe are not clean. Uh it's the cleaning really. It's because of the the beer on the floor drying off and having that horrible smells, which it's not attractive. Um yeah, smell is so important for hospitality. It feels like some owners and operators just don't get it, though.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

It's the I think it's the most underrated sense in hospital. Yeah. Still. And and it's such an important part of your brand because it's probably the thing you remember most. The first thing that strikes you. The thing that strikes you, and you will recognise it when you smell it somewhere else. It's such a brilliant tool for brand continuity. And you're right. Pub's still so far behind it with with the dreaded loo smell.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

But hotel hotel have smell, which hotels do it well. Hotels do it well. Like Andrew Balage was one of the first ones in London to have a bispo smell for Chiltern Firehouse. And now there's a lot of hotels doing it. And I know we discuss about Vicio Vinci doing it as well, which is amazing. And you tell us more about that story. But for restaurants, they struggle because it's hard to bring a scent, a smell in a place where you're supposed to smell the food the drinks rather than a perfume.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

The thing you that's the job of you could zone it. You need to be able to zone the areas. You know, of course you want the fresh smells of the kitchen and the food, but you but there are other spaces that you can that you can True.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

I mean, when I enter a pub, I want to smell the the fire pit. You want to smoke the the leather, those kind of smell that wants make you to uh hang out longer.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

So I'm not saying it's easy, but is the problem then the lack of vision in the owners, the operators, or the technical way of doing and where does it sit on a budget line?

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah. You know, I'm I'm literally, this is what I'm doing with one of my hats at the moment, is with my my Calafalco brand, where we will create bespoke sense for hotels and restaurants from natural botanicals. And there's an appetite for it, but then you get to the procurement department and go, where does it sit? Is it a marketing tool? Is it an operation must-have? And I think you know, the owners have got to go, no, this is both. It's like it's gonna make the customer experience better. It's also a great marketing tool because you're gonna take it away with you, and then you can even then buffle it and sell it and out out your walk out of the door. You can actually make money from it from reaching.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

To that point, and you mentioned continuity earlier. Like whenever I stay in a hotel that I like, I will buy their candle, I'll buy their diffuser, I will have it at my house, and you know what it does for me? It makes me book another trip back there. Yeah. So all about the return.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Do you know one of the first people to do it brilliantly in London? Anyone? Hackassan. Really? Do you remember the yeah, do you remember the original Hackassan? Yeah. You walk down those stairs and you were hit with that extraordinary agent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they were doing it 30 years ago. And it was it was I still remember the smell. Yeah, yeah. I can too. Like the head the headiness to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

And then Yeah, you feel amnesia.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

And then Hotel de Cosse and Paris did it very well. But but still, it's you can't name that many who are naming it.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Right. Um I I've been thinking a lot about like return visits recently. So, Alex, as we were discussing, kind of my my my main business, the technology company, and we're we're obsessed about kind of retention and renewal and keeping our clients. I don't really get that vibe from hotels and restaurants. It feels very kind of one and really done.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah. It's too automated nowadays. I mean, you go to a restaurant, you leave the restaurant, two hours later, you got an email. How was it? How was it? Leave us a g Google review. It just feels Yeah, you're right. It's it's certainly not if you're a similar.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Well, the champions in that in the Host Santa members' clubs, because they're half a business model relies in script. You've got to keep your members, otherwise you're you're not a business. So then you say you gotta so the hotels and restaurants should be asking themselves how do clubs do it so well, how do they keep their membership community together? And you know that I could write a book on that, how you do it. I think of like certainly not on email going, please Well, it's definitely not that.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

And Alex, you you mentioned like where it sits on the cost line. I mean, my God, if I think about what I've spent on some hotel stays or even some evenings in a restaurant, send me a candle after three months. Tell me you miss me. You know what? I'm I'm rebooking.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

And we we always call well nowadays it's quite automated, but we you get a call, uh, you've got a booking tomorrow, I would like to confirm you're coming. Why don't we call after? The day after. Just wanted to know if it went in when well simple.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

It will have such a best best one of the best things that I've seen was from from you all like the badger, fat badger. Well, public house. What public house group, lovely detail, WhatsApp, and you just get a little message from Poppy saying, you know, we're looking forward to you coming. How's your stay? So simple, and it was just brilliant. And then who else does that? Is it the Dorian Nottinghill? If you have the magic WhatsApp number, I think. So the the this is my point about where hotels sometimes veer veer off track, they're if they become so automated, so CRM focused, and they miss the point. It's like, no, it's got to be feel the opposite. Yeah, they're not McDonald's, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Yeah. Sorry, I took us off track. Antoine, low lights. Low lights.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

I went to see an amazing play. Yeah. Called Inter Inter Alia with um oh my god, I need to find the name of the of the actress because she's she just won actually the uh how is it called Olivia Award. Yes. Yes. She was amazing. The story is is it's National Theatre. And then my low light is the hospitality service in the National Theatre. You walk, obviously, there's always like bars in different areas where the quality of the product is really like random things. It's not like you can see no one has photo about, oh, let's try to find something that's healthy, something that's kind of uh different. Uh it could be uh the kind of alcohol product, for example, non-alcoholic drinks. It's just like the basic brands that you expect. Because they're all it's because they're all run by a couple of third party. Yeah. And then you've got a VIP section where you can see that you can pre-order your bottle of champagne, which you think that's quite nice, okay. And then the bottle of champagne is dropped on the table, it says reserve two glass, that's it. There's no service. So you're like, why will I spend, I don't know, 80 quid a bottle of champagne, and then I just have to find my table, probably no one's gonna pour it. It's like, oh I think they cut corners, and it could have been such an amazing hospital expense on top the play, which was blow taking, uh, which I recommend because I think it's finishing soon. With Roseman Pike.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Um go to the bridge theatre. They've cracked it, they've got it brilliantly. You've been there, right? One by Tower Bridge. Yes. Very new theatre. Their F and B is just fantastic. It feels very cohesive with the whole thing. So it can be done well.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Go to the House of Coco, where they have nailed blending music with hospitality. Yes, they have. Oh I like that. World leaders, yeah. And they and it is such an important point. Why they often separated, who knows? Like they focus on their their programme, the culture program, they forget the FB, or vice versa. When you get the two going together, two of great life's greatest passions. Guess what? Customers love it.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Alex, highlights and lowlights from your hospitality week.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

So I'm gonna stretch the week by a couple of days. I was in Tagazut Bay in Morocco. I've surfed there. I've s uh, me too, that's what we were doing. And um we went to the most I mean, first of all, what an amazing place. It's so cool. It's like, you know, genuinely quite bohemian still, it's a bit rough and ready, very good value. Unfortunately, everyone seems to discover it from the hotel side, but anyway. But the highlight was finding this wonderful um rooftop restaurant overlooking the bay. I mean, it was true Moroccan service, you know. It took an hour to get a drink, uh, two hours to get dinner, but it didn't matter. You know, they were so friendly, it was so warm, there was fresh octopus on the grill, it was just brilliant, and very good local Moroccan wines and very good value. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

That's great. That's funny what you said, because it's yeah, you're waiting a long time, which normally you would have been probably in London, you would have made a massive uh wow bar when you're on a rooftop of the when you're on a rooftop, you know, Vime was right on the attitude of the step where we were sitting next to the guests, the other, and we were just laughing about it.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

So, but who cares? It doesn't matter. They were so we've got nowhere to go. Yeah, that's we're you know, the slow life, right? And and it was fine. So you're right, as long as it's delivered with a smile and it's fine. It's when it's not.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Alright, so quite highlight. Any lowlights for you?

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Uh I'm not gonna name your names, but a low light is the awful hotel buffet breakfast. For first time really in my life I've done it.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

I'm never gonna do that again. I mean, it's just horrific experience. Not many hotels do it right. It's horrific. I think buffets would be.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

I couldn't get a cup, I couldn't get a tea, I couldn't get a whole I couldn't get anything, you know. So yeah, not enjoyable.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Is it is there a massive cost saving by doing breakfast as a buffet in a hotel? No, actually, there's a lot of waste.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

So much waste. You look at it. Because people they stuff themselves, they put a plate, a pile of food, which they will half of it, so much waste, but the guest wants value for money, they want choice. Uh, one that does it very well is the Marbella Club. Their selection is amazing, it's beautiful, you want to eat everything. Um But I think uh nowadays it's people are just six cents is to very well.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

True. That I did do it at I was stuck in Ziggy Bay during the volcano eruption. Ducks. Well yeah, worst place, worst place to be stuck. And and I yeah, we we just we just launched it. We just launched Ziggy Bay and the breakfast there was on a different level, but it but it was tastefully done, and it wasn't this kind of awful, let's see how much food we can put out and see how much you can eat into it.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah, you need to do lightation, you need to be interactive as well. But I think buffet's over for sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Um I got two low lights guys, I'm very sorry to kind of drag us all down even further. I'm just back from a place called Javier in near Alicante, and my favourite restaurant probably in the whole world has just been taken over by new owners. And so we were very scared to go because it holds such incredibly fond memories for us. It was just on the front by the ocean. I've been with you, and I yeah, one of the higher-end places and all fresh fish and stuff. And they've just ripped up a recipe that had worked brilliantly for 20 years. What did it change? They've turned it into they they want to churn more covers in, churn the tables faster, drop the prices slightly to appeal to a broader audience. The menus are now covered in plastic. Oh, they kill me. Very, very interesting, same location, same location. And you know what? They're probably gonna make more money. Um, but oh, it's but it's blown up, my beloved place. Same trip, traveling back via Alicante Airport, the lounge there. Airport lounges suck, suck, suck. Like, why can this not be I'll give you one?

SPEAKER_03 20:54

I'll give you one BA lounge, Miami Airport, different level.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Really? Different level. What makes it different? Is it is it new? Is it run by someone else?

SPEAKER_03 21:02

It's brand new. It's clearly probably their flagship lounge, I reckon, given it's Miami and you know, a lot of a lot of flights from Miami. Um food, the setting, the view, everything.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

It's beautiful. Yeah. It's true that it used to be a luxury to go to London. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

And now that is a crowd of overfilled, understaffed. No imagination. But okay, looks like we need to go to Miami. All right. It's not quality. It's it's a shame. All right, Miami. Here we come. Okay, on to pivotal moments, Alex. So these are kind of turning points in your career. They might be brands you've worked with, people you've worked for, people have worked for you. Maybe you can kind of map us through your career based on those pivotal turning points, please.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Okay. I okay. I think the first one was right at the beginning of my career when naively I was asked. Join a team at a cons agency to launch a really expensive vodka. And at the time, no one was doing everyone was just like, you know, it was cheap vodka. And we scratched our heads a little bit, said, really, okay. Um, and that was right at the beginning of the race for the super premium vodka market, and the brand in question was Belvide vodka. And it was an American entrepreneur, so it's pre-LVMH, company's called Millennium, and based in America, and it was us versus Grey Goose, and it was three of us, and we were going, right, let's create a narrative around this. And the first good name drop for Dylan Jones, so the first adopter of it who understood it was Dylan Jones. He was he wrote in his editor's letter of GQ going, this is something quite cool that's about to happen. That was a pivotal moment, and then I worked on Belvedere for 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

So do you really think for alcohol that the storytelling is what makes the brand?

SPEAKER_03 23:00

So, what is it that makes drinks brand work? Because I then went on to Don Perignot at a time when it was one of the hottest brands in the world. It was in the top 10 super brands. Do you remember that? Yes, they do. And and and I think what it was is when, and I've now got it with Coco as well, when a customer feels that they are absorbing the brand equity, the emotion from the brand by eating it, drinking it, staying in it, or what have you, that's what makes it hot, right? So then how do you get to the hotness of that brand? And there's no secret, there's no one thing. It's a it's a culmination of lots of different things. It's that sense that you're the first to discover it. Though if it's a brand that's been around for a long time, it's not that doesn't true, that's not true. So then what is it? It's a it's it's got to have a limited nature. So you've got to feel lucky that you've managed to get your hands on it or that you're you're you you know about it. Um, it's gotta be excellent in terms of what it's delivering. That's an obviously such an obvious point, but it's not always the case. Um, it's gotta make you feel good when you taste it or stay in it. And then of course, it does help when you've got the coolest people on the planet talking about it. You know, you've got to have the right people being part of it.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Now, my wife, a wonderful woman, but a total princess when it comes to her vodka, and she will only drink Belvidere or Grey Goose, but she'll swap between them. So there's no loyalty to one, but to both. Now, how does the man that built Belvedere feel about that?

SPEAKER_03 24:40

So well that they are they are quite different taste profiles, you know, one's a French wheat, the other's Polish pie. Um so I would have said it that that's interesting because it they do taste differently. In a martini, they are quite different vodkas. Belvedere for me is always a a gentler, smoother, richer vodka grey goose is a bit more in your face, a bit more sort of French. My wife's French, I can tell you that. Um so that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Maybe it's a mood thing that she No, I think it's because she wants to avoid the absolutes and the smile-offs and the which she associates maybe with kind of, I don't know, being younger and hangovers from drinking, less premium, but it's got to be a premium vodka.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, yeah. But absolute at one point was premium. It was. They were they they they pretty much created the premium vodka market then. Exactly. So what happened, or how come a brand could be at its best, premium for everyone, and then suddenly now it feels like it's kind of match market.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Because you can always make something better. You know? You can always go one step higher.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

So you think, yeah, there's been competition that offer a better product. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Is this is there super premium vodka now?

SPEAKER_03 25:58

That what we would call it super premium vodka, yeah. But like more. It was like an ultra premium vodka. Okay, I'll remember it. It was called became like you. It was that fine sort of sperm-like bottle. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean it's ridiculous. Like £250. I don't think so. I mean, it was it was launched at the time of pre-2008 crash when there was so much money everywhere in London. And it you look you love vodka?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Okay. I mean it's funny how each decade kind of has its alcohol. Was it in the 90s for the vodka? Yeah, well, let's talk about that. I mean, now it's all non-alcohol. Las babies was probably tequila.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

The last thing is tequila and cocktails, and without a doubt, I think, and I'm putting my putting my name on this, I think the the non-alcoholic trend is about to be absolutely enormous.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

And what's driving that? Is it a generation thing?

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Consumers. It's consumer-driven, consumer-led, it's not branded, and it's a health thing. Um you know, it's it's people realise that um alcohol has its moments and and it shouldn't be over-consumed, and people are starting to realize that. So you have to have a balance. I'm not an anti-alcohol guy. I still drink. I love I love a good wine and so forth, and I love a good cocktail, but but it's about a balance now, and you have to give a cus- a customer now wants an option where it's you're not forced down the alcohol route. You want a very good, complex, non-alcoholic drink that is as good as a complex wine or as a complex cocktail. And that is going to be the next decade.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

And are we there yet? Obviously, alcohol-free beer is everywhere. The alcohol-free beer. Not sure I've ever had a good alcohol-free wine.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

So I've been working in this space for two years now on both the product development side and and taking a brand to market, Catafalco at Spring. And what I've found is yeah, the beers have got it sorted. They probably started their RD probably 10 years ago. And where I think the the the old wines are um are quite niche, the taste profiles are quite very complex. Then you're led into the cocktails and the long, the low-out cocktails. So here's the problem with the cocktails is they're still one of the reasons people don't want to drink alcohol is because of health bans of sugar. The the low-alcoal cocktails are pat with sugar still. The other problem you've got with the low the low-alcohol non-alcoholic space is the ready-to-made drinks, or the RTDs are pat with sugar and quite often fizzy. And so, but consumers want a good tasting, healthy option that is easy to go, easy to drink. Um, and that is still underdeveloped. Guess what? We've got a brand that's filling that space. It's no sugar, it's it's honey, there's no fizz, and it comes straight from the bottle, and that's calafalco. And and we did that because we realized the space in the market. And I think that's going to be the new way to go. What's it called? We're calling an aperitivo, but is it just an aperativo? No, you can serve it out as a wine or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

But Because I think like the issue that category of drink should have a real name. I don't like non-alcoholic. Yeah. That's not another category. Something that's a trade term for it. What's the beer? It have their own name. So you're the healthy drinks, I don't know. We need to come now. That is a tra that is a sector challenge for us all. Because still people like we were saying earlier on that want to order something that's non-alcoholic, they always feel like punished or like, oh, oh, you're one of those. And it's always hidden somewhere on the menu. We try to make it 20 with no law instead of mucktail.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Or it doesn't have a caption name at all. It just blends into the drinks menu and you look to see what the alcohol content is, and guess what? It's zero. So, you know, it could be as simple as that. It could just finish the wine list, it could finish the cocktail list, it could finish the periterous list. You just look at the alcohol content. Um it might be as simple as that.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I'm reading a lot in the spirits side of things around is it mild alcohol, like a far lower percentage proof.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Is that a thing? Um well I've I've looked at a lot of the non-alcoholic spirits. Yeah. And there there are some very good ones out there. Like, you know, name chat bativo is very good. Yeah, these are like gins, which are kind of 15%. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. I don't know many I don't know much about those, I must admit. No. Yeah, no, I mean I mean But you've still got the same problem. You're gonna be having to mix it with something. You know, you can you don't want to put soda water with it.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

So Well, these ones are positioned as kind of lower alcohol gin or lower alcohol vodka. Again, I've read about them, I haven't tasted them. Let's get some for the next podcast.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Yeah, get them in. Blair Smith's very good for that.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

All right, so so Belvedere Alex, that sounds like a truly pivotal turning point in your career. What next?

SPEAKER_03 30:53

What next? So I I did Dom Perignon, that was extraordinary. We had Carl Lagerfeld as a cross director, and that showed me, I was still quite young then, how you can take a totally different sector, I suppose, fashion, and bring it into drinks and make it.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

What was your goal with Dom during that period? Were you broadening its audience?

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Get the get the price up and keep the brand super hot. So everyone wanted it because they realized if you could shout about Dom Perna, you look cool, right? So it was and but there's only a finite supply. So it was like, how do we keep it tight? How do we get the price up? How do we make sure it's being served in the best possible way by the people in the know, you know. And that was the job for about four years. So we created a program with the Ownitech. I don't know if you remember the Don Penya Ownotech, which was the old vintage system. Um and it was a club of the top restaurants and the top members' clubs and the top bars, and you know, they had to show that they knew how to treat it and serve it and understand it, and they got their allocation. Um that was in, but then when bringing Kyle Logfeld in for the more of the consumer side of it, like the Harrods and everyone else, you just saw the effect it had. I mean, it was What was he like to work with? Very I mean, I didn't work with him professionally on a day-to-day basis, but obviously he was at the events when we launched these things. Super professional. I mean, didn't start working. We used him as a photographer and took everything extremely seriously. And he was he loved it, he loved the projects, you know. It was it was fun. Um, I mean, the a pivotal moment was getting his campaign shot on the front cover of Sundaytime style, thanks to Tiffany Dark and Kate Spicer. And that was the launch of the Don Perin Rose campaign. It was also at the start of the rose trend, you remember? And I think Carl had a big thing to do with that. We we we shot Claudia Schiffer on a bed with a bottle of Don Péon Rosé. And guess what? People love it, right? So that was cool. How's Dom doing in the market now? I don't know, I'm afraid. I really don't know.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Do you think it still has the same brand perception?

SPEAKER_01 33:10

I don't think so. Because for me, originally it was Dom Pignon was that one of the best champagne in the world, but it was very it was a serious champagne.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

And then when it sounds like when you you came in and really made it the cool champagne that you would have in nightclub. I remember you had that label that could be a fluorescent, so you that was a bit after.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

That was a bit after, yeah. That came in, I think was it Mark Jacobs did that. I mean, yeah, it did start to go into the nightclubs.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

It did. And then he could he was competing with uh because Don Perignot is, if I'm not mistaken, is the monk that created the method Champagne. Am I right? Really? Is that what the name have from? I saw it in the stars. Yeah, Don Perignot was a monk. Goodness. And he's buried next to Don Ruinard. Yeah. His base mate. So Ruinard said they created a champagne, and Don Pignard said they did. But so there's a bit of confusion, but they vary in the same cemetery next to each other. I think the Abbey de Hauteville.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Where is that?

SPEAKER_01 34:13

We should do this, we should do a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Yeah, you could be buried. That's an epine, you should, it's beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Alright, we're going by our lot.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah. And then I moved into into uh went within LV Mage actually had a year out and and went worth six census for a year with Vincent Gillet, who's CMO at the time.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, so how did you move from champagne and alcohol brand to Six Census?

SPEAKER_03 34:37

I tell you why. I was I I slightly was slightly overdoing, doing I was enjoying it a bit too much. And I said to myself, I think I need to change here a bit. So there was a very beautiful job as with market sales market directors of Six Centres in Europe, working with Vincent, and and again, like bringing Six Centres out a bit more. Um we we we launched Ziggy Bay, that was the big launch of the year. Um, and that taught me a lot. That taught me Sonny Shiravani, who's who's a genius, absolute visionary, and and he and seeing how he thought and seeing how important it was to have these extraordinary stories as part of the hotel experience. We did a hotel in, I think it was called Sneva Kiri, I think it was. Yeah. And then they you went and they had the most extraordinary chocolate room from the chef of El Buri, just there to do a chocolate room. And that was one thing I thought genius. The other thing we did was having an outdoor cinema in the desert at Ziggy Bay, and and it was an operational nightmare. Can you imagine? Because it kept getting blown away. I mean, it was a nightmare. But again, one of the things you remember, and and and one thing people talk about. The other j the other thing about Ziggy Bay was you guests could parachute in. I mean, just simp genius, and this is all Sony, and it was such a clever way of things. So that was a big moment learning of that side of things. And and then I set up my own consultancy five years ago, took the plunge after COVID, and and I was just sick of like putting all my eggs in one basket and being at the behest of basically the government and uh and macro affairs. So I thought, no, I'm gonna take control and do it myself. Um, and I'll never look back.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Now, our mate here, Answan, has done a lot working the intersection between hospitality and art, thinking how and work. And I know you're doing lots now around fragrance and art and experience. Could you just tell us a bit about your your view as to where that's all going or should go?

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Yeah, sure. So I would see that there's two sides of it. There's there's one which we briefly touched upon earlier around scent and hospitality, but I think we covered that. And that that we are doing that with Calafalca, where we will create bespoke scents from a botanical farm Mallorca for that for that property. The other area we're looking at is more of a cons on the consumer side of things, with a brand called Viti Vinci, whereby we're combining olfactory art um and creating a studio around it. So it might manifest itself into a a living installation in a gallery where you walk through it, and as you walk through it, scent comes from the installation, you trigger things that create a fragrance, create a scent. And the and the reason behind that is because we believe scent is one of the most underrated um senses. It's pre-linguistic, it's the it's the biggest trigger of emotion and memory, way more than than sound or visual or or taste. Just the way our brain is wired. And yet it's you don't see it really as an artistic medium. So our theory is let's combine scent with art, create these multi-sensory installations, and see how we go. From that, we create these limited edition perfumes, you know, 100 bottles at a time, that are that are either inspired by the piece of art that we've done. So we're launching a piece in Biennale in Venice in in May, and we're creating a perfume from that. And we think this will take off in certain places, private homes, but also boutique hotels that want to go to that next step and go, what's next for the customer experience, the guest experience? Like imagine walking into a room when you're walking over Crush Rock Roses as part, but it's actually a piece of art and it triggers a sound. I mean, you know, it gets really immersive. It's immersive, it's all about immersive experiences. So, yeah, that's what I'm working on right now.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Very exciting, sir. Um, okay, let's bring it right up to the present day. But we like to play a little game with our guests called Under Pressure. And I'm going to give you a number of different scenarios. I want you to imagine you're the man kind of in charge, and so you can kind of call the shots. Um obviously, as we've heard today, you haven't necessarily operated the dining rooms or hotels, but it sounds like the operators take your advice on what they should be doing. So let's come at it from that perspective, please. So let me pick a card for you. Uh let's go for this one. All right, so it's uh it's a Saturday, the room's full, there's a nice buzz going on, there's a weight at the bar, kitchen's running about what, 20 minutes behind, nothing's gone wrong, but everything's kind of stretched. Then the door opens and a very well-known VIP walks in. Let's say it's Carl Lagerfeld. Bless him. Bless him. Idea departed. Yeah, that would be quite miracle. No, no, no reservation because he's dead. What you doing? Um people recognize him, they expect to be seated. What do you do?

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Look, you gotta you you've gotta kind of treat everyone the same, I think. And I think your VIP clientele would appreciate and expect him or her to be treated in the same way as your other as your other clients in the room. And it's about you how you deliver that message to them saying, you know, there isn't a table for you at the moment, but we will make sure there is one. You find them a nice space, you give them a nice drink on the house. Um, what you don't do is you go and boot someone off a table. All right, you just don't do that. And if the VIP client in question has a problem with that, then you don't want them in your house. It's that simple.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

I like that. Sorry, Carl, go elsewhere, buddy. Float away. Um, all right, so later that night, it's still a busy service. Um, a guest sets up a camera and then a video camera and then a light microphone. Oh, they start filming the staff, they start changing their clothes. Total service interruption, other guests uh staring kind of perturbed.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

What do you do? That's an easy one. You sarsen to politely put it away. And you say that please, you have to respect the other customers and the and and this and the other patrons in this room who don't particularly want to look at a live stream reality show. And again, if they have a problem with that, then they have to find somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Has it happened to you that you're in a restaurant dining with friends or your wife, or whatever, you see someone filming an influencer or someone that just wants to put it on their social media, but they're filming you. Well, you have that.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

I mean, I would No, I've never had that. Crikey.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Have you? Yeah. Filming you. Well, they're filming the restaurant, but it happens that you're the table right in front. So you're like, you know, you're gonna be You got something to hide.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

It's who you're with. But it's the death, it's the it's the it's the death note of a restaurant because if you if it's just a you cannot have that, you know, and and if people aren't doing it, you've got to politely.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

You know, there's some free mission star restaurant that take your phone at reception, don't allow you to have it at a table. I'm all for that. I think it sounds absolutely great. Which I think, yeah, it's smart first because they say people are taking pictures of the food, why it should be eaten because it's warm or not, and then they're gonna complain that it's lukewarm. Yeah, because you've been five minutes looking at it, and then because people don't talk anymore. You see family where the father, mother, kids, they're all on their phone, you're like But again, it's the del it's a delivery of the message.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Yeah, it's all about delivery of the message. I don't think people mind being told to put their phones away, it's just how it's done. It's that simple.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

All right, final card, Alex. Um, you've obviously worked very closely with um owners of of brands and restaurants and hotels over the years. So I know you answer this. From from your perspective, everything is going exactly as planned. The dining room smells beautiful. The experiential art is doing what it was meant to do, everything's buzzing, the guests are having the best time. Owner walks in, he's had a bad day, maybe his flight's been delayed, he looks a bit angry, he wants to upset some people, and he starts telling staff off, moving guests around, changing the music, turning off the scent. How do you deal with the owner?

SPEAKER_03 43:47

Well, I've I have worked with every type of owner. I really have. Um, so I've had a lot of experience in this. I think that's an easy answer. I mean, yeah, I've had owners that that literally have entourages of twenty people and will take over the entire dining room. I'm not gonna name any names, obviously. Um the I mean there is no straight answer. I think the the establishments in which that has happened know the owner and know it's almost part of the theatre, it's almost part of the the the roadshow and they kind of laugh about it, and you gotta lean into it because you're not telling this chap to sorry bugger off. That ain't gonna happen. Um so you kind of just gotta lean into it, it's part of the DNA of the brand, and actually that's the point. It it is part of the DNA of this app, it's the it's the Card if you've got this flamboyant owner who comes in with an entourage and wants to take over a place, it's probably gonna be running through the whole place if you've got a very humble, quiet owner who just likes in the background, brilliant what it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Do you think you can you can lean into it? When you go to a restaurant by looking at the staff, the ambiance and everything, you can guess the personality of the honour behind? I think you probably can.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

Because if the brand is doing its job, it you so we were always taught to Elvia M. the DNA of the brand starts with the founder. It's an expression of the founder and the personality of the founder and his vision. You know, a great example is Louis Vuitton. If you look at the story about Louis Vuitton, he was a global traveller and blah blah blah. So it should be, if it isn't, there's something weird going on. It means there's a very strong character somewhere else on the board who's driving the the brand. It really should be an expression of the founder because it's their vision. So as a as a consultant or do you want to test it on yourself? See, think of some brand, think of some owners and see what the DNA of those brands are like.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

No, no, I get it. But so as a consultant, you work with multi-brands nowadays. So how do you operate that? So you is it your first your focus at the beginning when you start working with Calafalco or House of Coco, is it to understand what's what's the vision?

SPEAKER_03 46:09

What's the vision and is it authentic? And and then if it isn't auth in the storytelling and the delivery, and if it isn't authentic, you you've got to be brave enough to challenge the the founder or the owner to say that what you're saying is not what we're seeing. So that's the first step, and then the second step is to then articulate it. Um, and by the way, you know, it's not always one-dimensional. You can't just go, it's this is the vision, death story, off you go, because it might be multiple offerings. So then you go, well, what's the philosophy? What's the thing that connects us? What's the seam that runs through everything that you do? And it might be something as simple as service, or it might be something as obvious as the art collections or the interiors. There's a very good example there of someone. So it's about like being confident and making sure that you're expressing that vision through the establishment, making it part of the storytelling, and because that's what makes it authentic. Answer, what kind of owner do you think you are?

SPEAKER_02 47:11

What sorry? What kind of owner? How how would how would your DNA manifest itself in the dining room? That's really disgusting, doesn't it? French.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Well like Alex, because I I wear a different hat, and I think, yeah, probably that DNA is in this podcast or in a home tenement or in the consultancy I do, for example. And hopefully it's kind of pro professionalism, uh sophistication, uh passion that I want to be seen and um transgressing the uh in the result that I'm offering.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

I think you always put the guest first, the staff are close second. Everything is very well considered, and you create a lovely ecosystem of people that bounce off of each other. That's your DNA. Sales, mate, sales. That's my interest. Okay, so let's look at the future. Um, Alex, when you look at hospitality today, and I talk about it in the broadest sense of the word, what gives you confidence in a world that's pretty fucked up right now? What concerns you? Um, if someone's entering the industry now, what should they focus on first in order to navigate it all?

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Oof, it's a big question. What should you focus on first to know? Okay. Two, two, I'm gonna name shake two clients here. So Coco and Batza Canafalco. The two, and they're both working really well. And I think the reason is that they're getting it right is because they both have a purpose. And I think hospitality, let's talk about the luxury side of hospitality. Yeah, that's my area. You they're gonna have to be clear about what the purpose is beyond just making a good Ibitar. So I would someone coming if an investor coming into this into the category, or if you're new and you you you're suddenly having to work in the category, then you know, probably the first question is why are we doing this? What's the purpose to it? It's not just the obvious, oh, we're gonna make our customers really happy and blah, blah, blah. It's I think it's gonna be slightly higher than that now. Um, you know, is it an environmental purpose? Is it cultural purpose?

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Proper mission-driven.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

It's a mission driven. I think that would be where the future's going. And if you're not clear on that, you're probably gonna struggle. Because the customer now expects it as well. What especially at the ultra-high net worth level, which you know I've got quite a lot of experience with. The first question they ask you, but more importantly, they ask themselves before they hand over their hard-earned cash is is this money gonna be doing some good beyond just making me feel good? I like it. So I think you've that's gonna be key. At the top, you need to have a while.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah, why. It's no longer I should do the first thing.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

I think that's it.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Then it's the what and then it's the how. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

What about the who and the what who and the whim? All right, Alex. It is time to pass the room. Um, we want to keep building this thing properly. Who should we talk to next? Sorry, what'd you what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Who should be our next invitee? Next invitee. That yeah, great command. We call our podcast the room, Claire Warner.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Do you know Claire Warner? No. Ah, she's wonderful. Yeah, she was on the founding team at Belvedere. She's now working in looking at how you get social enjoyment around no lower cold drinking, non-alcohol drinking, and and also how that works in the industry, which is also very important. So, not just the customer level, but the industry level. She's doing some really interesting work.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

I would love to have you.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Yeah. I want her. Alex, thank you. It's been it's been a real pleasure. So listen, as we remind ourselves at the end of each one of these pods, in hospitality, a reservation guarantees you a seat, but it does not guarantee you a great night. That part is earned. It's earned by the people you rarely see, and that's who this podcast is all about. Thank you, Alex. Thank you for listening, everyone. This is the reservation.