Alex Ghalleb | Dorian, Emberwood, Julie's and Grind

Some people run great venues.
Some people build great teams.

Alex Ghalleb has spent his career doing both.

From Soho House and Grind to Charlotte’s Group, Ennismore and now Five Graces Hospitality, he’s worked across openings, operations and growth at scale — helping build restaurants that succeed beyond the launch moment.

More recently, that includes projects like Dorian in Notting Hill and Julie’s in Holland Park.

This conversation is about growth.

How you scale without losing standards.
How culture holds under pressure.
And what it takes to build restaurants that actually last.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I'm Antho Melon and I'm here with Gédéon Lasque. I've spent my career inside hospitality, building and running restaurants, hotels, members' clubs, working alongside the people who carry the pressure when the room is full. Gideon approaches it from the other side as someone who lives in dining rooms and hotels and notices when something feels seamless and when it doesn't. This podcast is about the people who make hospitality work, the operators, the managers, the teams who build lead on the whole standards, especially when things are moving quickly. Each episode moves from beginnings to defining chapters to the moment that tests judgment. And today we are joined by someone who has spent his career building on scaling hospitality businesses. Gideon, please introduce our guest.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

It will be my honesty. He smells very nice. You can't sell that on a fresh face grade. We forgive him for his coffee stain on his lapel because he does smell so lovely. And my Bobby Yuri. So listen, some people run great venues, some people build great teams, and some spend their careers doing both again and again. And today we're joined by someone who's done exactly that. Alex is managing director of Five Gracies Hospitality, a business focused on building, growing, and operating amazing restaurants. Across his career, he's been behind more than 16 successful restaurant launches. That's epic. With recent projects including Julie's in Holland Park, Doran in Dosting Hill, Emberwood in Bath. The list goes on. Before that, he was global VP of FB Development Operations at Ennismore, working across concepts, openings, and international growth. Prior to that, he held senior roles across Charlotte's group in Grind, moving from GM to director of operations, helping scale businesses while maintaining standards all of the time. And then earlier in his career, he spent more than five years at Soho House. Gosh, I can't wait for the gossip. Running sites, building teams, and learning how culture and operations hold together under pressure. Alex has moved from running individual rooms to building the systems that allow multiple rooms to succeed. He understands growth, but also what it takes to sustain it. Alex, welcome to No Reservation. Stuh! What a career you have had. That was exhausting reading it out. You must feel knackered. Fun to listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

You feel very proud. The nostalgia. Yeah. Yeah. I had some good times. Been going at it for a while? Yeah, I think. How many years is it now? Since since I was the 12, 13.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Bloody hell.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Yeah. And I'm not going to tell you how long it is, but it was a long time.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Listen, my first question, my first question is going to take us all the way back to maybe prior to 12 or 13 years old. And so I'm intrigued about what made you fall in love with hospitality, like as a guest, not from the professional side. What's your first memory of a hotel, a restaurant, an experience?

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Well, that's easy because I kind of lived in hotels and restaurants from a young age. My dad was a restaurateur and a and a and a hotelier, uh, mainly of food and beverage. He was never overseeing bedrooms or anything like that. So from the age of like as early as three, I was sitting on the pass in the main kitchen of of a of a hotel called the Palace Hotel in Torquay. The Palace? The Palace. Palace. Yeah. The Palace Hotel. It's been leveled now. It's a nice residential block. But uh back then it was one of the places, you know. Margaret Thatcher stayed there, you know, many delegates, famous people, but I lived in that environment from very young age. So I lived in and around chaos, and that's suited my uh ADHD very well. Did you order from room service? Uh I don't know. I don't know whether I I was I was running around and running amok, probably. I was tasting the food that was probably going to the rooms.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Was there a was there a point where you decided that was going to be your career, or was it a case of it was never not going to be your career?

SPEAKER_02 4:03

No, I wanted to be, I shamelessly wanted to be a professional footballer when I was young. So I had never really thought about hospitality. I loved the environment, felt very at home there. My dad was great at what he did, very charismatic and slick operator, naturally. He just he just he just enjoyed it. And I obviously must have emulated some of that in my subconscious during my time. And when it came round to getting the first job, he had just opened a restaurant and I went and helped him back at back a house. I was working as the dish pig, as as as Ronnie Bennetti called it, once a colleague back at Sora House. And and yeah, I did that for two years before he became just too much to handle. I mean, like he was. I was gonna say, did it change your relationship with your dad? No, no, no, never. I we were super close. We've always been, you know, very, very close on on all on all elements, you know, very, very open talkers to each other. And after two years of like getting absolutely mulled in the in the back of the kitchen, because my dad was predominantly always front of house person. But when he got his own restaurant, he became the chef because he was a talented chef. He was he was one of those people that could very easily go to the kitchen fridge, open the door, ran the most random ingredients in there, put throw them into a pan, and it tastes like heaven scent. You know, food he was cooking. Well, it was Tunisian, so it was very North African Mediterranean vibes, but there was a lot of Mediterranean. I ate some weird stuff when it was weird, like honestly, very, very, very uh discerning pellet from a young age.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Um hey Alex, you described your dad as a slick operator. Yeah. We're with a man here who describes himself as a slick operator. Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Do you, Antoine?

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Come on, tell us a bit more about your slick operation. Mr. Slick, how do you remember when you first met Alex?

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yes. I do. I do actually. It was what was the name of a restaurant? Pergola.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

First time I met you was at High Road House, but it was all hush-hush. You were you were running around like, you know, having a look at the business before you took a rock.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Cafe Monaco?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Yeah. I don't remember that at all. Alright, what's your version of the story?

SPEAKER_00 6:09

His ex-girlfriend. True. Introduced us.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

The actual story.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Still professionally related. Was my job manager at uh Electric House at a time, and she said if I could meet Alex for coffee because he's now managing multi-site, which was his first uh gig as an option manager, and he wanted to have some advice on how I was doing it. And I was like, well, I felt honored about it, and I was like, Well, I'm not so sure I can give him a lot of tips because I'm like swimming. But I thought, yeah, well now, it'd be great to share some opinion ideas about hospitality with someone else that enjoyed it. So I think I remember that moment when we sat down Cafe Monaco, which was on Shawsbury Avenue. I remember it. Is it still there?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

No, no. Well, it's did it last a different it's a different operator now? It was Sarah House.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Yeah, did it last long?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

I remember going to go a couple of years. I think COVID kicked its house, didn't it? Yeah. It was a nice raspberry, to be honest. Yeah, very nice. Yeah. I totally don't remember that meeting, by the way. That has gone from my memory bank 100%. I was gonna say, if you were gonna open the field, that it was a pergola in and where is it, in Paddington. Do you remember up on the top? I remember having a beer on the like the the Is it where Silla V the stadium? I think I think oh. That's the side. But we were having a beer in the sun, and yeah, I was I I met him because my ex-girlfriend at the time, who was a GM of Electric, had I was like, I'm swimming at grind at this time. I was like, I've gone multi-site. It's a totally different ball game. I need somebody who you know, and she was like, speak to Antoine. He's a he's great at what he does. Despite what you were doing, you know, back a house swimming mentally. She thought you were great and she was a tough, she was a tough nut to not tough nut to impress. And if you guys worked half down, have you guys worked directly together? Yeah, we did a we did a concept together at the Marbella Club Hotel. About when was it? Yeah, five years ago. It was one of one of one of Five Grace's first first first projects. Yeah, massive success. They're doing like 400 covers a day now. They're they're killing it. Yeah. It's an amazing hotel though.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

I mean, it you know, we we we we helped what was already in process to be fair. Antoine's promised to invite me out, haven't you, Antoine? And we next week? I I know you promised to invite me out. Uh my book for the week. Alex, at this point, we like to talk about the highlights and lowlights of the week. One of the listen, you guys are the hardest working people I know out there in hospitality, but one of the great benefits is of course you get a lot of experience, a lot of hospitality across hotels and restaurants. Um are there any memories or moments that stick in your mind, Alex, over the last week? Highlights or lowlights?

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Highlights, probably that one of the highest light uh lights is we had lunch with with some clients at a new restaurant in Parla, part of the Super 8 group. Super good, very, very uh high profile at the moment. And rightfully so, the food's wicked. The service was excellent. You know, we sat down and I was recognized by the waitress. I think her name was Zoe. She used to work, yeah, Zoe. She used to work at uh Hoxton on Horbon and she recognized me from them, which was super nice. Service was on point, everything slick, chefs brought dishes to the table, different chefs, so it was really nice. We got a different interaction. The service level was was great, you know, and in a in a world of intermittency on standards, it was really nice to be there. We had a we had to be.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

I love to go. Yeah, but it's like packed for the next few months. I was gonna say, when the waitress recognised you, do you have Zoe number, please? Call Zoe to get a booking at Impala. It's tough. I was that's a lovely highlight.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

How about lowlights? Lowlights. I'm probably well, I mean, I've I've been working from early until late every day this week, so that's probably a low light, but it's been progressively productive, which has been good. I think lowlights with regards to hospitality in mind, I'd probably say when I'm travelling, the general service on flights and on the Eurostar is bitty at best. And it's frustrating because there's no reason for it. You know, everybody's everybody's got a job to do, do it to the highest level of it. The Eurostar used to be so damn used to be immense all the time, consistently.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

That ban line trains used to be like amazing service. Yeah. Yeah, with train trains in general. I remember as a kid you used to go and sit in the kind of in the the carriage with the white tablecloth. Yeah. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Now now you now you pay 17 grand and go on the One Express for that.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Yeah. Love to do that. Have you done that?

SPEAKER_02 10:39

I have, yeah. Work from that. It was part of was part of my engagement to m to Carolyn about a year and a half ago. And we we were we we got we got to Venice the night before, stayed the night, then got onto the train the following day. Um Keith Richards was also staying on the train. And so as and we'd we'd just been I've just asked her to to marry me two days before, so we were all like giddy.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Good job, otherwise, Keith Richards might have stepped in.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

And then Keith Richards was on there and we tried to steal her. Richards, it was the best. We had dinner together, he brought his bottle of champagne, we were having martinis in the cab.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

It's a phenomenal experience. I mean, obviously, being with Keith made it super special, but as a as a as a as a as a as a journey, as a as a as an experience, it's phenomenal. I would recommend it to anyone and everyone to do it at least once in your lifetime. Gotta be done.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Yeah. I mean so you m you mentioned how like how much you work, and listen, that's common across everyone in hospitality, and then you mentioned getting engaged. Is it a really hard profession to actually hold a relationship in? 100%. Definitely. Does it help if you work with someone within the profession or does that make it even harder?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

No, I'd say more often than not, it makes it a bit easier because they understand the commitment you've got to give in order to make a restaurant successful and grow and extend and sustain that success. It takes everything. It's like having a it's like having a baby. Do you know what I mean? You've got to look after it all the time. And you've got to evolve with the times as we meet your partner in the industry? Yeah, we met in in a pizza express in Tolkien. Yeah. And uh and and I met Carolyn in uh in in gold on Port of Bellarode.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Why the world?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Indeed.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Good highlights and highlights. Antoine? I've got a couple of highlights actually. I try a new restaurant concept, Kumori, this week, uh, which is handheld sushi. Um kind of concept coming from MA, but very inspired by some great success in Paris, which we mentioned, but Paris in terms of concept is almost taking over London, which is a bit surprising. And uh nice place, good vibe, good music, great food. Um, they really look after us. Met the owner, uh Mark, super nice guy, Canadian and uh Ukrainian. Um, uh lots of uh ideas to develop the brand, so I recommend for anyone that wants to try a new restaurant, Kumori. It's nice to see some good vibe on the busy places in London. And then as I do talent set and I interview quite a lot of people every week. Um, this week two people I I interview mention our podcast, which was super nice. And they say they really enjoy listening to stories of the industry, like Twin Makes talking about uh yeah, what's happening in uh Hospital 18. Who did they say was better, me or you? Of course you, I mean you're you're natural. So that's my highlight. Low light is reading an article this week that in the first quarter of this year there's three restaurants per day that are closing in UK, and it's not getting better. Hospital team UK is kind of on his knee. The last two budgets have really increased uh cost, business rate, uh, inflation, and now it's extremely hard, uh almost impossible, especially for small operators, to be profitable. That's why you see so many restaurants closing, and it's such a shame. So listen, it's clear to me that the IT has to change, right, in the hospitality world.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

But who's but I know part part of it, right? Uh whose job is it to be the spokesperson, the lobbyist?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

There's no. That's the always for the problem. Right. The hospitality industry doesn't have any minister, any representation. So you need to have association and community try to make some noise about it, but uh there's no one really representing hospitality at a government.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

In terms of employment, what percentage does hospitality represent in the UK? Oh, it's massive.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Uh I heard about it. I think it was like 15 or 20%. It's very high to think I think it's 25.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Really the high thing so we need we need to do something about this. My highlights and lowlights, uh, let me name check. Volk told me you were in Paris this week on the snow. Um no. Highlight name check picnic in Tanner Street Park on Burmese Street. We're recording this pod on Burmese Street. Picnic is this amazing restaurant run by a wonderful man called Alex, and it was built into an old cricket pavilion where people used to go and do crack and heroin for about 20 years. And Alex and his team kind of took it over and turned it into the most amazing French restaurant, sister restaurants for Cascrute. Um, do you prefer Cascoute or Picnic? Picnic. Why? Every single day. Um I I the the atmosphere that Alex has created is just beautiful. He owns both. In that restaurant, picnic, the atmosphere he's created is just amazing. It's like a neighborhood bistro where they treat you like a king, the setting in a park. Oh, it's just special. And they've named a cocktail after me. Going ask for what is it in it? Tell us the ingredients. What's it? It's Lilae Rose with tonic and a slice of orange. We'll go get one after this. Um my low light is happening later this evening. So I'm at an event in Mayfair, and then I'm meeting two friends, and I pay a ridiculous amount to be a member of Soho House. Ridiculous amount. And when you're in Mayfair, okay, I've got Soho Muse House and Little House. And you're old enough to get access there. They're they both suck now, and it really upsets me. Why? Why? Soho Muse House has no vibe, is often used for a private hire on both the top and the bottom piece, and so there's nowhere to see it other than outside. It's a really strange atmosphere. Little House doesn't have enough space, and it just upsets me that I'm paying a lot of money to be a member of a club and have done for years at Soho House, and I just feel they need to do better in Mayfair. What not only in Mayfair in UK, I think. Well in the UK, but yeah, certainly Mayfair. Anyway, that's my rant over.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

No, I've never been a member. No. I gave six solid years to that company. I loved it too.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Best memory of your time at Sars. It's tough. There's far too many. My first GM role. Uh Zay Spot a biddle.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Yeah. I loved it. Really loved it. It was good vibes. We had good good people. I loved my whole time. All six years were magic. The best company I've ever worked for, hands down.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Did you enjoy it as a or could you enjoy it as a guest, even though you were working there?

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Yeah, definitely, yeah. Yeah. Well, the the the you know, you mentioned culture at the beginning of this thing. You know, the culture of Sowerhouse was spectacular. Like the energy, the momentum, the cohesion, the live hard, play hard, or work hard, play it hard, I should say. You know, mantra that we all, it was just part of the DNA almost, you know. And I worked with some fantastic people. All the GMs were epic. The ops director, the F and B director, and then they became COO. And I'll mention Martin a bit further later, but just working under Nick during that period when it before it became huge was just uh electric.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

So here's here's a theory then, because as you talk, like I agree, I'm a fan of lots of the Soho Houses. We were name checking the Manchester one that I would been at last week and was incredible. It had a personality, it had a vibe. Little houses never really had a personality, and maybe it's too small. And the Muse House was conceived as this like original members thing, but then they gave up on that because not enough people were coming. Kind of doesn't have an identity. So maybe that's the issue. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Maybe it's just but it's also Mayfair isn't where you tend to always end up having your naughtyest times, if that makes sense. And Sowerhouse is very much about that. Little House Mayfair, I always I mean, I did get absolutely mangled with Keefer Sutherland one random night, it was pretty funny. He was just there and it just happened.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yeah, it was really funny. Really?

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah. Yeah, it was really fun. But um, it was more Little House is more of a place I would always associate with going and have meetings in the day. Do you think rather than having a an and you know a little bit of a random naughty night? I love the way you describe it.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

So a house is the place you go and have little naughty night.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Oh, it was so good. Oh, just the times were were were magical. And it was but it was serious. I mean, when we were working, we had we had to give everything and and then some day in, day out. First, first person in the building, last person to leave, fraternizing with the members' post in a good way. Um and and just, you know, it was it was a full lifestyle, all encompassing. There's just no other way to explain it. But at the same time, I learned a hell of a lot. I was taught some real fundamentals, not just about how to operate a business, but how to grow it, how to maintain culture, how to develop people underneath you, the whole nine yards.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Through my friendship with Antoine, I've met lots of people that have kind of come up through Soha House and boy, it's a badge of honour, right? It's a real credible thing. Is that still the case? Is it still a great kind of proving ground and not?

SPEAKER_00 19:45

I would say, especially as I mentioned, I do talent search. I think until like five, six years ago, it was like having So House on your CV was amazing because it was like an attitude, hard worker, foodie, attention to details, all those attributes that people were having coming out of So House. I think over the last five years, maybe because it became also because of COVID and then it became public, it's kind of lost his module on having it on your CB or coming out of it is actually harder to find job than before for sure. Oh really? Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Hmm. Alex, let's take you back to Tolkien and your career that began. Which is a economy playing in before being a teenager. Um, so listen, certainly when I look back upon my career, there have been some pretty pivotal moments. Mistakes I've made, places I've worked, people I've worked for, that kind of stuff, the big decisions I've made. It'd be lovely to map out your career so other people can kind of learn from your journey. So you were working for your dad for a couple of years. Where did it go from there? And what were the pivotal moments?

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Yeah, and then when I'd had enough of being like screened at as a dish pig, I went out to uh a hotel that that my dad actually made introduce the introductions to because one of his old assistant restaurant managers back in the palace was the restaurant manager of this restaurant of a hotel called uh Hotel Glen Eagles. Not the one in Scotland, but the one that actually John Cleese took inspiration from to create the very famous Faulty Towers. Exactly. So I worked in the original Faulty Towers looking after the original Sybil and Basil Faulty. But as a little 15-year-old doing six-course silver service, you know, it was like it was mental and it was not as crazy as the show obviously depicts, but it was pretty mental. I mean, there were some characters there, and it was proper old school, you know, you got your your paycheck in a little brown envelope at the end of the week and stuff like that. It was which I miss if I'm honest. But I learned a lot then. It was more about speed and agility and just trying to stay alive, really, in a in a in a room full of crazy, crazy nuts. But it was fun. So I did that for three years, and then after that, I I moved into Time at Pizza Express, which was, although it was a big chain, was was was was a very fond time. I spent five years on and off with that company. You know, and as a waiter, it wasn't like what what you what I became accustomed to when I came to London, where you'd have, you know, commies and waiters and barbacks and other bits and pieces and people doing all of the plethora of different disciplines. You'd do everything. You'd be the greeter at the door, the table seater, the order taker, the the coffee, the drinks maker, the s the side salad and the dessert maker, the table resetter, the clearer, the bill maker, everything. You'd do the whole lot, no matter what.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

And you know, those were the days where you were sites did Pizza Express have back then. They were big. When you were there. No, they were a bit there were bit changed over the years. For sure, for sure, yeah. Because there was a big magic. The time you're describing, boy, I looked at Riza in there.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Yeah, yeah. I mean like Torquay wasn't like maybe the the epicenter of culinary excellence, but it was definitely one of the it was definitely one of the the most popular places in town and we had a we had an arguably very good looking team and because of that I was the ugly one, you know the ugly duckling. And we we so I managed to fluke it in with some some funny quips. But yeah I learned a lot during that period because it was more about how to how to you know multitask and and build different things. And I look for look back in my career and there's many many elements of differentiation as I grew in my in my in my in my in my expertise but super fun memories. I mean I loved that and then I did some time working in four star five star hotels nightclubs a friend of mine had a night a very very popular nightclub so I did bar service in there which was completely insane but fun you know really kind of like energetic good camaraderie those are the things that hospitality is is best for you know as long as you've got ADHD and then when then what then what did I do?

SPEAKER_03 23:46

I worked at a little family restaurant award winning fish and chip place called Hambury's good friend of mine's dad owned that were you actively looking for different experiences because there you've described hotels restaurants bars nightclubs I think I think that active or did it just kind of happen?

SPEAKER_02 24:03

No I think I think that a you you always when you want to learn when you love doing something you you you naturally want to move on and although I spent a lot of time in each of those posts I was always doing other bits and pieces on the side within the industry I just loved it. I worked way more than all of my friends. All my friends were like doing like nine to fives when we finished school and and I was doing like 80 hour weeks not because I didn't like them just because I just I loved what I did and and and it denoted that in in Torkey especially during the summer period when it was the busiest busiest time you know it was like six days a week let's go. And then I went to uni did some something similar and I actually worked in in a restaurant called Estest not a million miles away from Pizza Express in its kind of fundamental direction conceptually and James South who was a co-GM at Sower House later on down the line was working that's where we met yeah yeah yeah and we didn't obviously we didn't join Sower House for any specific reason as to the reason why it was just it was just by by random how lovely random chance but it was it was nice. So then when I left uni I moved down to London to to follow my university dream and that's when the credit crunch came in and ripped the arse end out of the media industry that I was currently exploring to go into and my best friend was like why don't you go and check this place called Summer House out and I was like Summer House never heard of it. And he was like just check it out and I was like yeah yeah cool no worries. Never never thought about it and then I was on the metro one morning I looked at paper and there was this this ad for an open day for Sower House and I was like okay I I'm I'm not into signs but I I've got my eyes wide open. I was like solid let's try so I went along and there was this lady called Kathleen Hartigan and she was running this very old school style type of interview but it was great right so I sat down in eight and was it 1921 that side by just above BKB anyway the the events bit. So I went up said hello she asked me loads of questions about my background then she asked me to go and collect the tray on the on the bar would open up a bottle of wine and serve it and do some bits and pieces. Yeah yeah yeah I mean I don't I don't think I've heard or seen that been done ever since to be honest what was the role you were interviewing for oh I was only a waiter this is this is we're talking 20 years ago now but a which site yeah Sower House the original Greek Street yeah and uh and and I did and then she invited me for a trial and the a gentleman called Rob Puffitt was the GM at the time it was yeah and and I did the trial and I loved it and then I sat down sat sat down and they were like right we'd love to offer you the position this is the hourly rate and I would draw draw hit the hit the ground in in in disappointment I was like really I was like people can live on that I was like I'll tell you what I was like let's do it but just before the actual trial I called Rob and I was like because he gave me his number on the night I called Rob and I was like I'm really sorry I'm not gonna make it and he was like why and I was like it's just not enough money I'm really sorry. I don't work just for money but I mean you know it's land to live I was like let me go away make some money and then come back and I'll call you and so I went away worked in another restaurant forget the name of it actually but it was amazing for tips and I was putting a good three grand away every single month on top of what my being Yeah it was wicked I should have stayed what still be there now and and then eight months later I called him up and he said oh well actually he's like it's great to hear from you it's perfect time for you to be joining again although to be fair I'm gonna be moving on to Babbington and there's going to be another guy called Nick Caton coming to to run the show. And then and so I was like cool I was like well I'm in so let's do it. So I jumped in and they were just opening the new roof terrace at that time and that became my pitch and so I I ran that for the first four months and very quickly became promoted into management and then you know less than 12 months later I was general manager. Or yeah less than 16 months later general manager.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Goodness me God the fun stories you must have about that place. It was magic.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah back then it was really good it was hedonistic good people like just surrounded by good fun people it was always good like you you you could be sit sitting and chatting you know taking an order with one table and then right behind you you've got like I don't know a Hollywood celebrity. I remember we closed like multiple floors for MM once and you know we you know it was just super varied all the way through but the the the pace of it was intense the the vibe was really really cool and I was always on the night shift so I would start at 5 pm and I'd finish you know closing up at like 5 a.m and then you know go and spend a couple of hours at the casino not betting just having a drink with pals because it was the only place that was open and then get home at like 10 o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Of the million solo houses now which one do you think got closest to that original Greek street magic? I don't know I haven't been to many so houses very often in the last few one for me maybe the well Buddington I think still has it yeah I think 76 had it for a while definitely yeah at the opening the first three years were great times magical times I remember your bills yeah yeah I've always loved I've always loved the electric too the electric was fun too it's too dangerous I can't go there anyway the electric good again good people so amazing you made GM like after 16 months go must have been truly learning on the job.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Yeah big time what I mean what was what were the biggest challenges over that period I think just just just just maintaining positive drive all the time despite the hours and the intricacies of the business that everybody listening to this podcast will have experienced or do experience on a day to day you know you've just got to you've got to be tenacious and you've got to turn all of the misgivings into good things and stay on top and I mean I was just learning at such a fast rate I was eating it up and sponging it up so much.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

What about man management Alex? Because that's something that not everyone is great at but I'm assuming you're pretty epic given your career how did you how did you learn to be a good manager?

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I think you I've always played football right and I use this analogy quite a lot in hospitality and and I loved team sports in any way I've always been quite athletic and enjoyed it for the camaraderie for the energy the challenge and and I always saw hospitality management in the same way as a football manager, you know and getting the best out of your team and you can only get the best out of your team if you understand them, listen to them. You know you're half you're half a psychologist half you know a mentor half a you know a family member well that's thirds not not one and a half but anyway so I really thought that you know in order to get the best out of my team I needed to know them and and from the ground up you know so I would be listening to them understanding what their their their difficulties were and try and make them better in what it is that they needed support in and and usually nine times out of ten came to fruition you know and it was about hiring the right bodies for your team to be executing successfully we we talk a lot about kind of hospitality as a career path and maybe in the UK we're not as sophisticated as the Italians and the French.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

Not everyone makes a great manager of people how do you choose who to promote and can you progress up the career ladder in hospitality without becoming a man manager?

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah I think I think everybody's got different styles right I don't you don't necessarily need to be you don't have to have the highest EQ but I think in order to work in hospitality you've got to have a decent wallet of it you know because you need to be able to read your set tables read your customer get the best out of them as well you know it's a sales game in service it's a it's a cost simplifying or efficientizing when you're not in service as a manager anyway. But as a as a waiter or a bartender or anybody that's in the front facing client elements you know you have to be able to read people real quick. You have to break them down make them feel confident and comfortable in your environment which could be the first time that they've come in or the the second or the third time they need to feel oh this is scrap. You know simply you know and and the same goes for staff you know it's not just about looking after the customer you look after the team you know from the from Mr Headhunter's position of intro introducing somebody whether you're going to hire that person or not they need to feel like wow I really want to work with you I really want to work in this environment you know so that they talk positively about it to other people you've got to use all of the tools possible when when you're when you're when you're when you're when you're running your own business or running a business with somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

I think it is the most important thing nowadays afterity much better than having learned how to serve on so on. And it's funny because when I was in Lausanne school 20 30 years ago they teach us about NLP on transaction analysis which I was like why would we do psychology? And it was to learn how to read the guests, how to read the staff how to deal with them how to adapt yourself how to have adult conversation or take attention and bring it to an adult level so that you um yeah you try to avoid a conflict that might arise and you see it coming and I when I do training for openings it's always for me EQ is the most important thing. And it's not something that you can really teach. You can explain what it is and you can try to say to the staff I want your emotion to come I want you to touch on make the guests feel something about service not just like set on the right on clear on the right who cares?

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Yeah no one and is there is there a balancing thing then because we're doing this this podcast to shine a light on the heroes of hospitality the great unsung heroes who are the operators within that ecosystem you obviously have the chefs and the owners as well and if I was to ask what the classic characteristics of the chefs and the owners are probably not EQ right and so they need an operator with EQ and I think positivity as well I've got this amazing opportunity to meet so many people from this industry and if there is a red thread there's positivity in a world where there could be so much to pull you down you guys bounce back very well.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah yeah you've got to you've got to it's an in it's an it's an industry that survives 100% on energy momentum you know and those two things play into vibe when you're actually looking at the environment of a restaurant or culture with regards to the team and the actual ethos and DNA of the company itself. Super important you can't build it with looking down or backwards or digging hole.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Answer I haven't asked you this but kind of I guess at your well in in earlier chapters of your career you had probably thousands of people ultimately reporting up into you and you're now pursuing a very different career where you don't have that. Has that been a hard transition?

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Yeah you miss it. You miss the interaction the the buzz the yeah the how do you call it uh the friendship or the because when you are uh consultant or when you have your own business you don't automatically have those relationships anymore so that's why I I I like to do talent search because it allows me to get that banter with uh the staff knowing what's happening and getting to still know what's happening in the industry because when you're consultant you usually don't uh uh you're a little bit away from the scene from what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Oh buddy if you ever get lonely you know you can phone Alex and I at any time um all right so Greek Street wow I want to ask you more about that when we're not recording but where where did you then go?

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Uh so then from Greek street supporting a bit of the opening of Berlin I loved that house yeah it was awesome super difficult though at the beginning oh yeah massive building different mindset of the of the of the culture of the city although I loved the city I was there for nigh on four five months hottest summer of all time 2010 World Cup in South Africa oh it was everything loved it um hedonistic city yeah was there greater hedonism in Greek Street or Berlin? Oh for sure in Greek Street good hands down good I'm glad we still represent this down hands down and then uh I got asked to go to the Pizzeries so I spent time Pizzerie's shortage which had newly opened then went to Pizzerie's Portobello where I became the general manager loved every second of it loved Notting Hill still do live there won't leave unless I leave the country and then and then yeah and then I went and then I got asked to go to High Road House and and and that was known as the house where everyone goes to die right so it wasn't a massive selling point for me it was like full of energy I was like no send me to Shoreditch I'll go work with Kelly Taylor I'll go do that let me go there let me go there Alex where you see Chisik in but it sent me to Chiswick Jesus but anyway they and you know that after much back and forth as a way to test the GM oh really to go to I would house because it was the one that no one wanted nobody but at the same time it was a very complex one you had like four businesses into one an advance brasserie members' club hotel rooms hotel bedrooms why did Nick open it it was like it was it house number three or four yeah but he also owned there was only a couple of actual bricks and mortar that were owned by the company was that was one of them yeah and but it it had gone through like eight GMs in seven years there like there was no continuity you know it felt it felt if you ever you watched The Lion King right it felt like when Scar had taken over it you know and it pride lands were grey and the wallpaper's coming off the wall and I walked in there and I was like thanks guys this looks great and it had always you know they'd been meaning to refurb it for the last two or three years so all the staff had stayed but you know we're we're past the point of believing that it was ever going to happen you know it just felt a little bit flat so I wasn't that enthused about taking the roll if I'm honest but somehow Nick Caton managed to talk me into taking it so I took it had a two-day handover with Tom Aspie who who'd done a fabulous job by the way he'd been there for a year before I the year before I'd got there he was being promoted to go and take on Dean Street Townhouse leaving the gap and and he very thankfully thanks Tom if you're listening by the way sarcastically put me forward as like the person that he would like to give it over to um so I had a two-day handover with him and spent gruelling six months trying to turn it around and and whatever what year are we at now? This is 2013 now and but it ended up being my most fulfilling role within the group why because it was super difficult two because of the people that I was able to bring on board or inherited that had that Tom had brought on board in in certain key positions. And as a team we really built a wonderful culture turned all of the the negative naysayers within the team around and they became superstars and like it just it just flourished and then we actually got the the funding to start doing the the the the refurb. So you know momentum had started to build we'd gone from the worst performing site when I took it over but not the worst performing one of the worst performing sorry um but Tom had brought that from like the worst performing and then we made it we took it to the third most profitable site in the in the Glow portfolio and we were at like 15 or 20 sites by that point.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

So so I'm glad you said that period of time because I've been down on Solar House on today's record but I have a wonderful experience of exactly that year. So I was living in Barnes at the time and three kids we've been playing I don't know school football on Saturday rainy muddy awful we're meeting my cousin and his family at High Road house and we walked in and you could see the staff at reception desk just seeing dirty mud we look like a complete state they gave us a room they said listen just go and bath shower your kids your kids are you want to give us your card we'll go around the corner to Marks and Spencer's and get some new clothes they were just wonderful so well done I'll give you all the credit I'd like to take the credit for that that was nice that's what you want from a members club yeah exactly it was awesome time and it it really was we had a wonderful team it was it was family esque but everyone had each other's backs you know and that was that was fundamental.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

So why living? Because we did the refurb because we launched like the the first daily change in or even service based changing menu in Sower House on in the club um and because a young gentleman called David Abramovich came knocking at the door through introduction of a a a good friend and ex-Sower house colleague called Sophie Rosh Garland and he ought he had just kind of got some really incredible investment and and board members at his coffee group called Shoreditch Grind at the time and they just opened Holburn Grind a Soho Grind and we're about to hope open Holburn Grind and he had ambitions to take it more from a a coffee group to a restaurant bar coffee group in that order and and uh and we just started talking about it and after six years I was like you know I've I've banged the yes yes yes drum for so long it was super emotional for me to hand my notice in I've got to be honest but it felt like the right time and it was a bit of a swan dive into the unknown with it being a coffee group going from something like a private members club or the the coolest one in the world anyway. But it was it was a it was an opportunity to you know get some skin in the game and have some fun and and create something fresh because third wave coffee from Australia only only been really championed by Monmouth at that point. Grind was a new player in the game and very different very cool very energetic and dynamic. I mean it was pretty nuts short itch grind I don't know whether you ever went you know there'd be there'd be one of the staff like high off their head on the floor while there's like a queue out the door for three hours, you know, and the music pumping techno at 7am so it was a really interesting thing. But I really loved David I thought what what he stood for and how he how he talked about his business and his vision was really aspirational and inspirational. And so I just I jumped.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

So I I let go of Sower House and jumped into something brand spanking new and when you leave an organization especially one where you've built such close personal relationships does it impact the personal relationships especially when you've worked for like an owner operator?

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Yes and yes and no yes and no it depends I maintained a lot of relationships with post-leaving Sower House for a very well most of owners and Nick Johnson's one of them that you they feel like you leave the family.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Yeah it's a personal slight isn't it yeah sometimes so they feel like it shouldn't be you're abandoning them.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah yeah yeah Nick did Nick did come down to try and tell you know get me to stay but you when you can't stay in a company for like your whole life otherwise you miss learning lots of other elements that you know there's a what I'd learnt in Southhouse was there was a really good way to do things and they had really championed a fantastic uh process and structure and DNA. What I what I learned from when I left was that there was a million ways to do things and you didn't have to just do it that way. You know you could do it lots of different ways and and that was the most exciting thing. Although to be honest I was still doing it the sewer house way for the six first six months of me being at grind if I'm honest because that's what I knew as my management on how to do things and it took time to flex and to to shake it off and be a little bit more dynamic and entrepreneurial.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

But it sounds like as I listen to you about your career that's kind of what you've done. You've transitioned from many different things to many other different things but you've always taken something for what's gone before and that's built this kind of tapestry of who you are. Yeah for sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Definitely I mean I I've been fortunate enough in my career right up until my last role at Anismo to be working with you know some enigmatic real front running players in the in the global market and they really have I've been Lucky enough to learn from those people. And I think if you want to really stabilize or even create a fundamentally great career for yourself, you need to be able to work for the best people because the best people are the ones that are going to shape the way that you bring your character and personality to the profession, you know, and it's fundamental. Whether you're in hospitality, whether you're in marketing, whether you're in finance, whatever, you want to be the best, you've got to learn from the best. So for the world of coffee, where did you go next? So then I had my first son, Jackson, and and I was the number one operator in the company. We'd gone from 23 staff when I joined to 260 F and B staff. And I was like working around the clock. And you know, I was meeting with Antoine every 15 minutes just to say, like, what do I do with this multi-site share? It's killing me. But I was learning, so it was good. But I decided to leave and take a bit of time, not away from the business, but also because a friend of mine who had an award-winning three-site group in Charlottes has found himself in a bit of a bit of a struggle and needed some support to just turn it around. So I I said my good graces and thanks to David and moved on to Charlotte's, which was a three-site group where you could walk between the three sites. And I lived in Richmond at the time, so it was super close. It just made sense at the time for me. Um it was super tough. But I was there for only only 10 months as we were building impetus with Nick House to create gold on Pombella Road. So it was only ever going to be a benchmark make weight. Ended up taking more time from me than uh than than grind in the end because he was in so much debt. But I again I learned so much about it. And, you know, bringing a better financial capture and visibility system, a better culture to the to the business, having to enact a really horrible period of a CM CVA, which I'd never done before, to try and help restructure the business and effectively save it, and then bring better people into the business and help it regrow again, which we did in a very short space of time. So it was fab. But then jumped into building gold. And that was one of my fondest memories. How many years was there? That was so I jumped and started then 2018, yeah, mid-2018. And it was a year build. We'd just secured the site on Portobello Road, which was called the Portobello Gold Pub, historic pub, like the third oldest, I think, in this in the in the area. And a huge construction program. You know, we we the demolition was insane. It took three months just to demolish. We dug two meters down to be able to put the right infrastructure into that back garden and steel girders and other bits and pieces, but really, really great, great working with Nick. Complimented each other very well, put together a great team, brought Ares over from Sower House, which was you know, he was he was probably the most famous guy in there, uh, especially in West London for sure. And yeah, we again we built a really fantastic team.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

It was a really Where did where did the where did the conviction come from? Because that was a big investment, right? Uh huge. Pretty new as well, that concept today. Yeah. But so yeah, where was the conviction? Where did the belief come from?

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Um I think it was conversations with Nick. Nick had been to this place in LA called Jelena, which was a big inspiration for what we would we were trying to do. And he'd said that, you know, because we'd talked about a prior business opportunity where we were gonna take what's now um uh what's it called? It was the distillery, it's now become a really famous company, I can't remember Dissume, on port a bit further down on Portobello Road, and we lost out to that, and we were gonna do some Barry type thing and and whatever. But then a couple of years later, this opportunity came up, and by that point, obviously things had evolved, the place was different, the the the style of the the Notting Hillers was very kind of like healthy driven. It felt a little bit LA without actually saying it out loud, and this restaurant was killing it on Abbott Kinney, and so we flew out to LA. We we dined there, like breakfast, lunch, dinner, had a look at it, what are they doing, how are they doing it, analyzed the menu. This is great, this is gonna work. There's so many dishes though. I'm nervous about like wastage and all the other bits and pieces. But what we realized was that because there were so many dishes and so many sections, people would order loads of dishes because they everything tasted well, red and tasted good. So they would just order more and more and more. And that became like how we started to evolve gold effectively. And and then we started looking at other places around LA and understood the vibe and the lighting and the trees, all the trees. And we were like, let's just do it. And that's that's how it became. And it took a year to build it all. And we launched in June 2019, and very quickly we're doing you know, solid numbers around 50k net, and very quickly tripled that within three or four months, and it just maintained, stabilised. And we were full of Hollywood A-listers. It was just but magic. And we had Theo Hill, who was ex-River Cafe, and Theo's like the nicest man in hospitality. He was so easy to work with and so talented, and totally understood what we wanted to do straight from the off. Like his his cook-off when we were looking for our signature chef. Like he did eight dishes, and six of them went straight onto the opening menu without any tweaks. It was perfect, like perfect. We were like, yes, you know, that moment where you're just like that, we've got to go. And he's still there now. And I mean, like, he's he's a fundamental part of that business.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Oh, what loved work? What a great experience. Yeah, you should feel very proud.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

I mean I was, it was fun. It was really fun. And then COVID came. I went from doing 3,000 guests a week to to sitting on my arse at home, um, which was which gave me a lot of time to think, a lot of running around Hyde Park at the time. My 10k times got really good. I think I'd hit 42 minutes. I was like, guess it. And then I just I thought, you know, I'd I'd started getting some consultancy uh requests, which I hadn't ever thought about doing prior, but I'd opened enough sites and done enough enough different sites to to know what kind of good felt like and what what performed well as opposed to what didn't.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

It was his international consultancy stuff.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Yeah, there was well, there was Marbella Club Hotel and I I brought Antoine in for that because you know he's it was a big it was a big gig, it was a big deal. It was a high, high, it was a high uh high high profile, you know, concept, but I wanted to smash it and I trust Answan equivocally. So, you know, we went and did that, did another concept called Chameleon in in One Marlebone, which was like an outdoor concept and uh televivian cuisine, and then uh did some dark kitchen feasibility and and and design projects. Like it was really varied, and I liked it because I I like I I very much like doing new things, you know. I really enjoy the energy and the creative and you know, finding the solution to the problem, which is the key for any business, you know, it's provide the solution to the problem, done, that's it. But then there's obviously the the the added give of making it work in hospitality and really driving it in that first year is just fundamental to get it right. So I was lucky, and but during that time I I got a phone call randomly from from Sharan Pasricha, the founder of Ennismore. Um, because I I would I'd I'd uh we would we were both posted next to each other in code hospitality. He was obviously um he'd just brokered this this huge 1.2 billion pound merger with a core to become the lifestyle powerhouse. And and I was a tiny little muppet promoting a concept for a client, but we both commented on how good we looked in the photos and and started talking about what he wanted. And he he was like, Come and help me create this F and B concept studio. And and I'd I'd known Sharan since my solar house days. So I was like, and he was a regular at gold too, and I was like, Yeah, sure, let's just do it, and then jumped into that. And the rest is history. I mean, that was that was two years of extremity flying around left, right, and centre, designing everything from the ground up, from hundred, hundred key properties with one F and B outlet to you know, one trillion dollar projects in the mountains of Saudi Arabia for the future of whatever it was supposed to be, whether it's still going to happen or not, I don't know. But that was a really great time. Lots and lots and lots of challenge, lots of thinking outside the box, trying to push the boundaries as much as possible and do something that was new, that had a bit more integration with hotels because some hotels did FB great, some were just working on the old model of like, let's bang a a named chef in there and that will drive some some footfall. But we were approaching it different. We were like, well, how do we how do we bring the locals who are going to keep it busy 365 days a year? You know, when you go and stay in a hotel like anybody does, listening or otherwise, you go and stay in a hotel, you never eat in the hotel. You go out and you explore and you taste this, that, and the other. So why are we making restaurants for those people? We should be making them for the people that live there. And that was it. And it was how do we make it really marketable? Local mixology, local consultant or culinary consultant. How many tricks and toys can we bring to the game that that have real impact with the local demographic that we're trying to reach? And that that's how we started to build everything. That's great. I was working with some great people who were very creative, very tenacious, big, big personalities. It was fun.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

And bring us up fully to today then. What's what's keeping you?

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Why five graces? Remind me. Five graces. So five graces is built on an Eastern concept around the five senses, effectively. So, you know, smell, taste, touch, yada yada yada. And that was only three of them.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

That's the one is any smells nice.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

Hey. I mean, you know, you we bring we try and bring that to hospitality, you know, and from lighting and music to try and drive the vibe to the way that things are set out. I just after two years at Ennismore, I I I I wanted to go and give my test my hand at doing it myself. And I was very fortunate to to get some fantastic opportunities working. So tell us some of the restaurants you've opened the last few years.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

So evolved in.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

So it involved and opened Julie's in in Holland Park, the re the redevelopment of that with the new owner Tara McBain, which was a lot of fun. Taking a 50-year-old institution and evolving it into a new look that is relevant in today's market without forgetting where it came from and embracing all of that was really fun. Working with Christa Silva, Max Cohen, and and Ali Ali Villa on uh on Dorian was was also awesome. I you know, started that process and helping support, create, develop, and design the interior while I was at Ennismore. And then when I finished Ennismore, I helped rebuild it operationally and and and work with them.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

Yeah, Dorian, probably a wide successful restaurant, I would say, in terms of food, ambiance, um probably profitability in London. I was over the license.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Max is a wonderful talent. Again, like Theo, one of the nicest guys in hospitality. Christa Silva, the the founding owner. I mean, like his dynamic, creative genius. You should get him on the you should get him on the show. He's got great energy, isn't he? Oh my god, he's on uncappable, mate. So where where do you go, where do you go from here, Ali? Just at the moment, I mean, at the moment I'm going uh quite a lot abroad. I don't really have a lot of domestic projects at the moment. Most of it is all is all international, a lot in Asia. Asia is really where the the energy and the action feels at the moment, particularly in in in Bali, in Hong Kong, Malaysia. Who knows? I mean, I I would like to get back into owning, you know, an operation one day, but the UK market is is crazy at the moment. It doesn't make sense to spend all that money for it to wash its phone.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Let's let's assume in Hope UK comes back. So own your own property, what does that look like? Is it a is it a pizza restaurant? Is it a coffee shop? Definitely night.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

We've got we've got enough pizza restaurants and they're they're doing but they do it better than I would. Uh I probably wouldn't go back into coffee anymore. I think I don't know. I don't know what it would be. It would probably be a bit more of a night time. It would probably be more um high energy. Not a club to run. I don't like that where you can't hear yourself think, but definitely vibrant. Probably dinner only. Maximum. Maximum with lunch. Definitely more in the evening. I do, but yeah, I'm not gonna launch the. No, no, no, no. And the culinary direction changes on a on a on a day-to-day. It will really come down to where the location is, what the type of building, how can we make it feel authentic and that it's got meaning and we've thought about it. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_03 56:26

I want you to open it now. Well, I'm hungry. Uh before we wrap, I know Antoine, you always like to talk a bit about uh the future of hospitality. Oh, we don't do the game, the cards today. We don't do the cards today because we're out of time, sir. Um what a shame. We're talking about we're talking to one card. Is there money to be made? One one card. So we we play a game called Underpro. And I'm sure during your career you've had a lot of under pressure moments. Yeah, yeah. Let me spin it slightly because we don't often get to talk to people that have been involved with hotels or restaurants with rooms. What's the worst ever thing you've discovered in a hotel bedroom?

SPEAKER_02 57:13

I would say I wouldn't say that I found anything specific. I've obviously been told of certain elements, but I think the one thing that always sticks in my mind was that we had I had a Hollywood celebrity that came in because they were doing shooting in in West London and they were staying at High Red House. And they came in and looked, they looked, they we knew that they were coming. Obviously, it was a big name. And when they arrived, they looked decidedly sick, like really bad. Like I we we're all asked, like, are you really okay? Do you want us to call somebody? And they they they said no, but we checked about an hour later and and they was like, Yeah, please get somebody here immediately. It was a Sunday night, you know. Who do you call on a Sunday night? You don't just have like a private doctor on speed dials who we're like googling around, trying to find somebody, and we find somebody who answered the phone, and we're like, look, this really spicy situation. We've got somebody very famous who is in a really bad way, like visibly in a bad way, and we'd like you to get here as soon as possible. Don't worry about whatever the charges, just please get here so that we can look after them and make sure that they aren't they are they are either taken to hospital, which we think they might need to, and they don't die in our hotel, so to speak. And they were there within 30 minutes, and apparently it was just food poisoning, but we were all super saved their life and their Hollywood crew.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Well, I've got a good one for you. Go on, I want to hear a good one as well. I'm on duty, I get a call, the guests just check out, left the safe, uh, closed, we opened the safe and we found 10 grams of Coke. What do we do? Coca-Cola. Non-fruit drugs. So you're not gonna call the guy and say, Oh, I think you forgot something behind. I say you throw it in a toilet, but you take a picture showing that you throw it in case we need uh for the police, or if the guest is annoyed at uh have you found what I lost behind? Uh so quite unusual request when you get a call, so what do we do with that? Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

You wanted them to take a picture just so that you knew they weren't doing it on Fuselli as well.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

Like do we believe Antoine? Have you got can I see the photo Antoine? If you're destroying it. So the future, sir.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Yeah, so we talked a lot about earlier on uh how the way the hospital is going in UK and it's quite doom on globe. So give us your opinion on on your positivity that you have on what where the hospitality is going. How can it go better? How do you see it going?

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Tough one. Uh there's a lot there's a lot out of my hands and out of everyone's hands on that one. I think it's all it's all governmental, but it's twinned with uh rental prices and it's just a it's a it's a it's a it's a difficult situation. The VAT will help, but I mean marginally, but it's a start. Yeah, as long as a customer don't expand the price as well. Yeah, um it's it's uh it's a really it's a really tough one. It's a really tough one. I don't I don't know is the answer. I wish I could tell you what that that should look like. The VAT starts it, landlords being forgiving on on rent, you know, with rent, with energy, with wages, with VAT, all of those elements. I mean, it it couldn't it couldn't get worse. Food pricing, it couldn't be worse.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

There's still site doing well. You look at Doyan, you look at uh the Dover Yeah, we see side that are still performing extremely well by the son of it. True. So what is it that they're doing that the others should do?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

Well, those specific sites are offering great service, first and foremost. Service is everything. You can even you can you can deliver substandard product if you've got great service with some charm and with some vibe and some some some authenticity. Um so service is the number one player, you know, and that's driving sales. You know, you can't, we always used to say, you know, you drive sales in service and you efficientise the business outside of it in but in the pockets. And that's that's rule number one, really. I don't think there's there's as much else that you can do other than find cheeky wins in supply chain cost efficiencies. And if you're looking to set up a business in the industry, think about your concept and think about how many people you need when it's absolutely dead to execute high quality at pace and build and design your business around that because that's the best chance you've got for the long term. If you build it too big and it means every single time the bartender needs to go and get a bottle from five, six, ten, fifteen meters away, it's not gonna work. You're gonna need to have two bartenders in order to execute the quick, you know, and that those tiny little things when you're creating and designing something make a huge difference in the longevity of your business growth and profitability.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

So service. So, what would you say to the young generation that are listening to us on the want to work in hospitality? Should they learn about service? For sure. Yeah. Where do they learn about service? From there's no really hotel school here in UK.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

You don't I'm I know that you went to hotel school. I didn't. I don't think you need to go to hotel school in order to maximize service, to learn how a large international business works, definitely. But I think you seek out the best players in the market, you know, the the the the the David Carters, the Super 8s, the the Dorians, the Martin uh Martin Khrushchevsky, the the the Dovers, the Martinos, they're the best players in the market. They're the ones that understand service at the highest level, and those are the ones that that get the game. And in a in a tough market, I think it's it's always it's always good to look at who are doing it the best.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

Good advice. Alex, before we let you go, we want to keep building this podcast properly, and part of that is finding new leaders to talk to in the space.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

Who do you think we should talk to now?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

I think you should get Martin Khrushmart in here for sure. Obviously, Oh, that's gonna be spicy. I wouldn't send him an invitation. I'll be here, but he's he's a great personality and he's definitely one of the best in the biz, for sure. I mean, he he he he was next number two in building Sower House, which was epic, and I learned an incredible lot from him. Love the over. He's a tough, he's a tough, he's a tough operator, but a good one. And he gets service unequivocally. Christa Silver, he would be amazing to get on board. Well, what a character, most dynamic and creative person there, to be honest. Great entrepreneur. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

For somebody that doesn't come from a spirit, he's done extremely well. Yeah. He's extremely smart.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:35

But he looks at it from a completely different perspective. Um and from Notting Hill Fish Shop during COVID to the supermarket of dreams and flipping it at night time to do the Amakaze stuff, and Dorian, I mean, like it's it's magical. I love it, I love it to the bits. And then David Carter, I mean, you're not far away from Omer and Agora, Lanteca Smokestack, guy's awesome. Like what he's done is is superb. And Super 8, the Ben Chapman, you know, Impala to Mountain Brat Kiln Smoking Go. I mean, like the list goes on, those guys are killing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

And these are great ideas, thank you. Gosh, we're gonna be busy, Antoine. Uh Alex. Thank you. Uh it was honest, detailed, and exactly why we do this. Um in hospitality, a reservation guarantees you a seat, but it doesn't guarantee you a great night. That party's earned. It's earned by the people you rarely see, the ones carrying the room when it really matters. And if you've enjoyed this, share it with someone in hospitality who deserves to be heard. Thank you for listening. Antoine, all that leaves me to ask you is there room for me at your restaurant? Sorry, Gignon Versa. No reservation.