Clémence de Crecy | Evolv, Aqua, Champagne and Clementine PR

Some people build restaurants.
Some people build hotels.

Clémence de Crecy has spent nearly three decades helping people discover them.

From Evolv, Aqua & Gordon Ramsay Restaurants and luxury resorts across the Maldives and Turkey to some of the most respected brands in food, drink and travel, she has built a career around reputation, storytelling and connection.

What began with Champagne and luxury brands became Clementine Communications — one of London's most respected boutique hospitality agencies.

This conversation is about visibility.

How great brands earn attention.
How reputations are built.
And why even the best hospitality businesses need someone to tell their story.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:26

No reservation. I'm Antoine Melon and I'm here with Gideon Lasque. I spent my career inside hospitality. Kenyan experiences it from the other side as someone who spent a lot of time in restaurants and hotels and notices this retail that most people miss. This podcast is about the people behind the Great Hospitality, the people who built it, run it, and protect it. Each episode we talk about the moments that shape them, the lessons they've learned on how they handle pressure when it arrives. And today we are joined by someone who has spent a career helping some of the best hospitalized brands in the world tell the story. Gidon, please introduce our guest. I will, but I've missed you. It's been two weeks since I last saw you. Where have you been? What have you been doing? I've been on Marbella, Marbella Film projects. That's my last report of the year, unfortunately. Very exciting. We revamped the room service of a hotel that had 70 years, so it's quite amazing. Is it is it still gonna be called room service or have you revamped it? No, that was one of my ideas. We're gonna call it Marbella Club at home. Because the idea is to treat it not as an amenity but as a restaurant, or we're bringing restaurant quality in the comfort of your own room or villa. And because often you see websities that no one wants to work there, the food is not as much love and originality maybe or seasonality than the other restaurants. So the idea was to make it compete with the other restaurant and to be to the same level of quality. Wonderful. And were you also in France? I hear rumours. We I was at my sister, little sister birthday, and it was just surprised with my nephew, my niece, my older sister, and some great friends and experienced Saint-Tropez, which I haven't been for a while, and there was some great beach club actually. I was very uh surprised by the quality of the food, the ambience, the design, the attention to detail, the service. Really like professional. Is Saint Tropez changing? Yeah, there was not much French arrogance. I was like, which country am I? Because there weren't many French there? No, actually no, no. All the stuff were uh French, but speaking French English, and they were extremely polite, and you could see they were enjoying it, which is nice to see. And a new place is emerging, or is it still the classics? No, actually, I think the uh the scene has changed a lot because there was we call it La Loi du Littoral in France where they had to, I think the first 20 meters on the beach, everywhere around the country, it's public. So there's a lot of places that have been removed. So now you can have your sun beds, but all the kind of shacks or restaurants are much further away and need to be dismantled in winter as well. So they're more like pop-ups. Alright, cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

We need to get ourselves there. But listen, let's get ourselves begun. Um some people build restaurants, some people build hotels, and some people build the stories that help people discover them in the very first place. Today we're joined by someone who has spent nearly three decades. Can't be right. There must be a typo. Three decades doing exactly that. With the coolest name in the business. Clemence de Crissy grew up in Lyon, Lyon Mafia, hey, and began her career studying law before moving into marketing and comms through Celsa at the Sorbonne, obviously one of France's most respected institutions for comms and journalism. Early roles within the champagne industry and at Tagu gave her a grounding in luxury brands, reputation, and storytelling. Then in 2006, with the sha from a borrowed desk surrounded by the construction noise of Westfield, she launched Clementine Communications. Nearly 20 years later, I'll stop doing that, I promise. But nearly 20 years later, that business has become one of London's most respected boutique agencies, working across hospitality, food and drink, luxury, travel, and lifestyle. Her clients have included some of the biggest names in hospitality, from Antoine's mate Gordon Ramsay, from the three-star Michelin-starred restaurant Gordon Ramsay to the launch of RGR at Bishopsgate, to luxury resorts across the Maldives and Turkey, to some of the most respected brands in food, drink, and travel. Champagne, though, has been the red thread or the fizzy thread throughout your career, Clemence. From your early days working with Comite Champagne to become a dame of the ordre de coteaux de Champlain, one of the highest honours in the Champagne world. Wow, that's so cool! Along the way, you've launched a podcast. You can tell us what we should be doing. Embraced AI and generative engine optimization, served as UK ambassador for the PRNet and helped mental the next generation of comms professionals. Clemence understands something. Many people in hospitality forget that great places don't always speak for themselves. Someone has to tell their story. Clemence, welcome to No Reservation. Um, is this our first guest from Lyon? Yes, it is. How exciting.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

I am thrilled. Thank you so much for having me today. It's it's a great pleasure. You know, normally I organize for my clients to be on podcasts and then suddenly it's me taking the lead and having to tell the world about myself and listening to that biography. Um it's it's 20 years, 20 years, 30 years in the industry, but 20 years of running my own business. I've got so many stories to share, so many little nuggets stuff. Uh I don't know if I should tell you now, wait until uh I close my business and write my book. But I think for now, let's get this going. It's so exciting. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Well, before we go anywhere else, we need to start. And I hear there's a story here with how the two of you first cross paths. Who wants to go?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Oh, I'm I'm gonna kick off on this one. It's it's it's quite unusual. Uh to you say I I love the power of connection. The my podcast was called Connection Prevay.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

So it's all about the the power of connecting people, networking with people, facing people, looking at people in the eye. And I'm a great believer of what we do today, sitting in the same room and having a good conversation and sharing with the world our knowledge. All of us have had so much experience to share. But uh, Antoine and I met at a very, well, unusual place, I would say. A friend of mine a few years ago contacted me to help to PR, one of the international and world competitions called the pâté en croûte. Uh we love pâté en croûte in France. I'm right to say that. I did not know there was a competition for pâté en croûte. Um, she asked me, and Sophie contacted me and said, Can you help and invite a few journalists to come to this event at the Savoid, which I do quite a lot of work with? And who was at my table? This incredible man. So Antoine was facing me. We started to talk and realize we have people in common, we are from the same city, we have the same passion for hospitality, and the rest is history. Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

What a beautiful crew was very good.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

We tried like eight till then. That's a lot of pattern crew. What one? What makes a winning pattern crew? Is it the pastry or thing?

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Good. Yeah, so everything. It's um the pastry that you use presentation uh was always say in English the crust is the dough they use. I can't remember the special name for it. And then obviously inside is a mix of often gibier, which is all the um hunt animals.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah, but not all if you remember.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Wag there could be some truffle and so on. And then on top of that, which is amazing, is when you slice it, the inside needs to look as well beautiful. And there's a British chef that's excellent at uh he had his own uh kind of kitchen studio at uh the Rosewood, uh which was like the star for I mean in English you call it a pie more than a pattern code.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

But it's incredible and it's an international, so just for our diary, ladies and gentlemen, 19th of October at the Savoy is the next competition, I've been told. Let's go, but new format, new trend, plenty of chefs already sign up. So let's go there again this year.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

We'll be there. I'm very excited. What a lovely story. Uh let's rewind further, Camus. Before the pate en cru, before the champagne, if there was such a time, I'm not sure. But certainly before PR and hospitality. What's your earliest memory of hospitality as a guest rather than a professional?

SPEAKER_02 8:49

You know, I come from Lyon, quite a conservative background. And my I think the little treat we had with my parents was probably going to an Italian restaurant once a month. So nothing sexy and nothing really fancy at the time. Um and I moved to the UK in my early 20s, and I started my business. I was 25, 26 years old. So quite at a young age, there was a very blur line between my private life and my lifestyle life with work. So very early on, my one of my first clients was Dan Magray, and I opened his uh hotel in Bordeaux called La Grande Maison. And it was a definition of hospitality at its best. I was in the start of my career and everything was done to perfection. So I discover hospitality with Bernard Magray, and obviously the chef he had in the restaurant dances was Joël Robichon. So I started making a work. And then I ended up doing his PR for his restaurant in London. But what an incredible start when you're 25 to work with the most charismatic man in wine. Bernard, I remind you, has got 42 estates around the world, including three grand club classes in Bordeaux, plus Joël Robichon. And I was mean a bit of that. So I discover luxury and hospitality together thanks to these two men when I was quite young.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

What a beautiful story. What happened to the Ribichon restaurant in Covent Garden, just down from the Right now?

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Well.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

It's what now? It's Ecco Louis. It's part of Paris Society. It's uh it was originally when I opened New Orleans French. Now it's I think it's more French. Uh beautiful location, beautiful size, same seam designer studio than who did uh Chilton Firehouse. It was just such a sexy restaurant, the actual Ruby Sean. It was absolutely beautiful. It's quite big room. Now they did the Japanese on the ground floor, on the uh first floor is a French restaurant, and they have a really cool bar with live music. At the very top.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

That's really good.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Little roof terrace.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Why aren't we recording there, guys?

unknown 10:46

What?

SPEAKER_04 10:47

We should be recording there in a cool bar. Next time, next time. All right. With this weather. Yeah, you're right. All right. At this moment we take a pause and we like to look at our highlights and sometimes lowlights from our hospitality week. Ladies first.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Thank you very much. Quite a busy week again. Loads, loads of uh events again happening in London. Not looking at the news, but more sort of the PR and marketing event that I've attended. So Tuesday, uh Sally Pepe, the new the new one they've opened at the Langam. Pretty cool place. That was my first time there. They had a partnership with um a designer called Mr. Drip, a really cool guy. Check him out on Instagram actually. And he did some live painting in front of us, loads of press there, really good food, really good service, really busy restaurant. I've really enjoyed it. So quite highlight.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

On smart for them to do that collaboration with an artist.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Good storytelling. I'm sure we'll do that storytelling at some point, but I I thought it was very clever. Um, and my second highlight was last night. You would remember a good old institution in London, Bluebirds. We've all been to Bluebirds. We've seen it.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

As OBS manager there, I used to buy clothes there before it was even a restaurant. Yeah, so don't give it Antoine.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

It's a good old Tonran story there.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Sorry, Antoine interrupt Antoine interrupted you.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

No. No, no, but it's great for joining the dots. It's show the passion and experience in your spot.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

I love it. But and Bluebird is now, so it used to be DD, Conran, DD, and now called Evolve. Uh Martin Williams, as you know, is is leading this company now and really trying to uh again put Bluebird back on the Mac with different stories. And obviously, we have a summer of sports with football starting in a couple of days. Tonight, here we go. So it's happening, and Bluebird has got multiple screens. So they did an event for press and influencer, which I attended last night, and they showcased the best of the food they had and the cocktails, etc. To highlight. Indeed, I do somehow. But I didn't don't do the one for Saleh Pepe, so I'm not gonna mention only of our science.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

That's sad.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

But yeah, idea so we could, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:48

We did we we we did my mother-in-law's uh 70th birthday in the private dining room there. You know, the elevated one. So nice. Such a lovely team.

SPEAKER_05 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Shout out to Bluebird. Any low lights or highlights you'd like to go? A low light. I know she doesn't have one. She's a positive glass half-full lady.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

I'm gonna support the hospitality and be positive, and I just support everyone. I had a couple of stories with people misspelling my name on the coffee cup, but I'm gonna get that. Call me Perth at the coffee magic at the coffee shop. Much easier than Clemence.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Okay, I like last week at the Marbia Club, I did training that I really enjoyed doing in general called EQ training. Emotional intelligence.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Were you giving the training or taking the training? I was giving the training. Interesting choice of person to do that.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

And it was a difficult audience because it was like the team that's been a lot of them there for a long time, people that are from Malacca that haven't really traveled. Really good professional people, but a bit old school. So I could see at the beginning when I started it, uh they're like, what is he talking about? But gradually I try to explain to them by showing video, by explaining, by telling about my experience, the power that they have as a waiter or manager on the floor to to make the customer feel something. And I say to them, okay, service for me is black and white, hospitality is colour, and you control that. And you can really what people will remember six months later, it's not the food they had, it's not a design. It's what you made and feel. And it's whether an attention to detail, your name spelled properly on the cup, or remember the name of your dog, your children, what you like, or something they heard that you were you need something, um, even if it's not related to a restaurant that they went to fetch, is those things that the people remember. And at the end of the year, an hour and a half, I felt that the connection between the room because one thing I do at the end of the training is asking them what's your story? Why you work in hospitality and why you work here? And what you realize is like there's some amazing stories, of course. People don't know about each other. And they work together eight hours a day at least for five days a week. I mean they spend more time than with their family, but they don't know anything about the person next to it. And I could feel after knowing the amazing story from each other that they were like, oh my god, like we're we're teamed. I know you better now. And I it was really nice to see that.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

I don't cry it in its face and remind I so I was uh at Dover again this week, run by your mate Martin, ex Soho House. They just won an award, top 50 restaurant in the UK. And and good on them. But an interesting place, right? Because the food's okay. It's okay. But the dining room and the team and the ambiance are just epically awesome. So you're so right about getting that interconnection between the team shines so much louder than anything else. Did you have any lowlights, sir?

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Yes, last night. I'm not gonna mention it. Nice member. You're gonna cry. The nice members club that I support and I love and I spend a lot of time with. Um we asked for a second bottle of wine to the surmier, and his answer was, yeah, when I finish everything else I'm doing at the moment, I've got I was like, Jesus, really? God, I mean it's such a wrong answer. And then I observe him, he doesn't know I'm from hospitality. And the only thing he was doing on the other table was not to top up the wine. And I'm like, how stupid is that? Why don't you kindly ask the waiter, oh can you help me? And pour again the wine of those tables so I can sell another bottle and look after those people. All right, but Antoine, who are you upset at?

SPEAKER_04 16:52

Are you upset at the familier? Or I'm upset that the floor manager or the GM or because it's got to come down to lack of training, right? Not so sure. I think it's a bit of a personality as well. Well, someone hired the wrong person for the job.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Which is a shame.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Um Anton, have you recovered?

SPEAKER_03 17:21

It's a lack of self. None of self.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

Um I so I I like the monstroon coming with a glass half full person, so no no low light. But a highlight for me, a weird a weird one. Um Everyman Cinema, Borough Market. Yeah. Been there twice recently, saw Devil West Prada 2, great movie, and then the new Star Wars. Both times I ate in the cinema, which historically would be something that would give me the fear of God, right? Awful food. Both times incredibly well done. The service, they take your order in the seat. So they take the order at your seat, they bring it to you. Quality of food, just one that someone's really thought about the menu. How do we make food fast at scale that can be eaten in someone's seat? So, yeah, just such consideration, great delivery, fresh ingredients. So yeah. Good point.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

I mean, I don't need to have a chef. I I use the one in Middlevale a lot. And yeah, the food is good. Yeah. But it's true that the service, they they they went the extra mile to bring the food on to take the order on making you feel like a real guest in a restaurant.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

And I I like I like the fusion of entertainment and food. So you'd in its many guises. Well done, everyone. Right. Pivotal moments, Clemence. No lie for you? No light. No. The movie movie? Uh Devil Wars Prada 2.

unknown 18:46

But fabulous.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

Have you guys seen it? Star Wars? Not all, you know. Less, less fabulous. Yeah, it certainly wasn't a pivotal moment in my life once in that movie. But let's talk pivotal moments, Clemence. So these are the moments that shaped you, and it could be a room, a person, an office, a project that changed your life. Who was there? If you think back, was there someone that really inspired you to take your communications journey?

SPEAKER_02 19:15

It's it's an um it's a wonderful question because that really makes me look back over the past 20 years. And there's too many moments, so I'm gonna try to keep it concise and to the point. I have a man that I've met.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

I have a man in my life, quite a few, but you are a French woman, is how it should be, Clémence.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Right, kids and a husband. But um there's there's a few very power charismatic men that I've met in my career. And uh, one is called Alain Dominique Perrin, another Frenchman who runs, who is the founder of the Fondation Cartier. Uh, also worked for the Richmond work there for many years. And when I started my company, found my name, God knows how, and his PA called me and said, Monsieur Alain Dominique Perrin would like to meet you tomorrow in his office. So I went to the Richmond office in London, which at the time stunning office in central London. Um, and I arrived at his at his office. He had probably a 200 meters square office, and he sat at the end of it. It was it was a film, it was a real film. Remember, I was 25 at the time, and I remember sitting down thinking, Oh my gosh, what am I doing here? Um and he started to talk about uh communication and luxury and what was luxury for him. And I had really, he gave me a lecture in luxury for 20 minutes, and I thought, my gosh, if I just came for that, that's fine. I just go and I've learned so much and I've exchanged business cards, I'm so happy. And then he looked at my bag. I had a handbag which I took from Lancel. So obviously, Lancel was owned by Richmond at that time. I did a bit of research coming to the uh interview, this meeting with the writer time, and he shook my bag and said, There's a bit of a default on your bag. Call CA and say, Do you mind sort of sending that back to the store, get it fixed for Madame de Cressy and sending it back to her in a week's time? And then we carried on. But you know, this is how I see uh the attention to detail, the eye for precision. And for me, this is what discrete luxury is all about. And he refixed my bag, sent it back to me. I still got this bag now, 25 years later, and the story sort of goes on. But he introduced me to this world of luxury in a very uh non-sort of flashy way. It was, and then he gave me a brief about his incredible estate in Cao. So he's got a beautiful chateau, the most stunning property in Cao on top of a hill, and some vineyards. So he gave me a bit of a brief to start working and doing some PR for his vineyards, to which I then took on journalists to visit the estates using his private jet at the time. I've heard so many stories about that, but for another day. But that is really a charismatic man who's made a big influence in my life, and I think opened doors for me. Sudaborque. Absolutely. He's he's sort of partly retired at the moment. I'm still in touch with him, so there's now and then, and someone I really admire, the most charismatic person, obviously, across hospitality. Drinks, which is a big part of my my life as well, and a luxury. So I think he definitely made a big impact and introduced me then to Ben Amagre and then the rest is his history as we as we why was he fond of you? I think he saw in me, a young lawyer arriving in London working for champagne brands. I was protecting the word, the word champagne, which at the time was used by every brand in the world, if you recall. So we were spending our time suing brands, which was a bit big doll as a junk to start with. But I think he saw in me this this young French woman who arrived in London as a lawyer, you knew the word of luxury through the champagne world and was eager and hungry to do more. And launching a company at, I think, at 25, looking back, perhaps took loads of guts. And he found in me uh he set up also businesses when he was quite young and perhaps related to that and wanted to give me a chance. And that's what I've done around all around my career is to try to give people a chance. So we're now in a French way where you've got to study a huge number of years, and then you have to join a company and there's a ladder. You you you wait a few years to go to the next ladder, and the hospitality is the same. I think what I do is yeah, if I trust and I believe in people, I give them the chance to become really senior very quickly.

SPEAKER_04 23:14

So you're a risk taker, you're an entrepreneur, you set up your own business. Are there risks you've taken that haven't paid off? That you've learned from, of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Well, the the the biggest one would probably when I set up Clementine Communications, so 20 years ago, was I had a 10 years business plan to build it up and to sell it. Look at me, 20 years on, and I'm still here. So maybe that was a failure. I don't know. Um, I'm loving it. I am absolutely loving it. It's it's a passion, you know, working with hospitality luxury brand, you've got to be fashioned. You've got to not look at your watch. It's not a five nine to five job like being on a brand floor or shop floor for restaurants or bar or hotel. Really, it's the media never stops. So if the FT calls me on a Saturday morning and here, if a TV program calls you because they want a spokesperson for the for in an hour's time, I'm here. So despite that, my friend is actually currently off, but I'm you know, I'll be here. I'll be back on quick. But yeah, no, so I think I think no, there's no big mistakes. There's it's all learning. I'm learning from my clients every day. Every day is different. So I'm learning from my team. I've got 10 10 staff working with me now. They are all very international. I love different cultures. So we've got French, we've got sort of Italian, we've got Spanish, we've got English. You know, it's it's a real melting pock of culture. But I absolutely love this. Um, so note big sort of value to report so far. But loads of, but you know, some some really difficult time. You know, let's talk about lockdown. Let's talk about how I had to reinvent myself overnight, because half of my clients were in hospitality at that time. I lost 60% of my business over one night. Phone calls after phone calls. Sorry, we're closing down, we're closing, thus we're stopping here. And some restaurants, which I won't mention now, even used that occasion not to pay me for the previous three months of invoices that they're in me. I had to go legal, so now it's all sorted by any means. But yeah, it was it was a really tough time. So we had to reinvent ourselves and pivot from B2B campaign to B2C and do everything online, carry on talking and creating storyline with journalists and influencer, but obviously using online platform rather than this face-to-face contact which we have today.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

So my my business is in technology, and that's changed a lot over 20 years. But my goodness me, PR and comms, the changes that you've gone through over 20 years, how does one even go about embracing that and adjusting it? Because each year just looks fundamentally different. Influencers weren't a thing 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

No, and even if you refer when we were telling M4 in your world, like in my, we were telling clients about bloggers, and and I I could remember clients being the luxury world that, oh my gosh, don't talk to bloggers who these guys are, and then suddenly influencers. I mean, and you're right, we have we had to go and evolve. But I think this is the most exciting thing for me is the is the storytelling. And if you remember 30 years ago in our world, it was hospitality could promote themselves lots by word of mouth. It was who we know and who we we say the right thing. I think nowadays, even if you have a brilliant hotel, restaurant, or bar, if the stories are being told to the right place, you're effectively invisible to your audience or to potential new customer. And I love the fact that PR was sort of creating this sort of narrative ecosystem around the business. Because now most of your customers, if you go to restaurants, they already have a perception about what they're expecting before you cross the door. We talk about how our highlights are low. You knew what to expect before even going to these places, right? And I think this is where PR has got a great feature because we're building this narrative. We're helping people check online, so websites, we check on Instagram, you check on reviews, you check on Google, etc. And PR feed into all of these different avenues. And this that's why I think PR is very exciting over the next 10 years. But you're right, we've had to evolve pretty much every year. There's something new coming up.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Talk to me about Mr. Ramsey. So with someone like that, you've got to combine this mega personality brand with his food and his restaurants and the service. And I guess you can't have one outshine the other, but how do you balance all of those things together?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

So we do the PR for the Gordon Ramsey restaurant groups and some of the restaurants. So so far I'm looking after the three restaurants at the Savoy, that is Dot and to 90, the River and the Rail, Petrouse, and we launched Lucky Cat for him at 22 Bishopsgate. We launched BSK. So I don't look after the entire portfolio. Remember, he's open his hundreds restaurants last uh two weeks ago. It was BSK at Bishopsgate. We curate storyline per restaurant, and this is what we've been hired, is to very much find the right story angle for each chef in every different sites, uh, the food they they provide. But it's not only the chef, it's also the sommelier, it's the bartenders, is the team behind. I think he's very respectful. The entire company led by Andy Wenlock, which I would love for you to get on the podcast, by the way. Tremendous CEO. Um, I think this company really um don't want to obviously Gordon is the the lead on all these campaigns, on his restaurant, but I think every chef have got their level of player, and there's a real respect for each of their own different culture and savoir-faire.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

Um I so admire what they did with the recent TV show. Um was fun, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 28:41

The Netflix theory.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Just incredible, and I guess just another weapon within your arsenal of things you can do to build brands and drive people into restaurants.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

So yes, I mean, as you may know, Golden Ramsey has got a studio production company. So we uh my role was I helped to launch the Lucky Cat in Bishopsgate. So I don't know if have you watched the the Netflix.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

Yeah, loved it.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

This is really cool. So there's an episode about the hats, the hard hat, sorry, party that we launched uh for the influencer a few months, everybody wearing this sort of helmet hat, you know, building sites thing. A few months before the launch, that was good fun. Um it was influencer, and then we had a bigger press and influencer party. It was in in February, March next last year, and everything was filmed for for this for this Netflix series by any means. Uh it's a tremendous success, absolutely. And and the restaurants, I think Bishopsgate is now is now very, very booked.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

Do you know how much a lucky cat is to buy?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

I would not know.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

To buy? I I had to find out because I I took clients there after a recent event. Uh one of them may or may not have stolen a lucky cat, the big ones, the big ones. It's okay. 150 150 quid if anyone wants to uh steal and replace one of those.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

So you've got the little one that you have on your table that you stray chase. I thought it was about 10 pounds when you wanted to.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

The big one. The wee, big one. The big ones from the bar, 150 quid.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

But you'd have to know that if you're a good loyal customer, you can actually get it bespoke with your name and you can actually eat it there. So you can have your own cat and leave it at Lucky Cat's Maker. Here we go.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

What a wonderful story. Typically, I did not steal it, someone else stole it and I paid for the replace. Like Swavino's days when everyone was telling 200.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Those were great as phrases, weren't they? Right. Yeah, I mean, to come back to your point, it's true that Netflix series, I think, was extremely well curated. First, it was amazing for the restaurant on the booking, and I know that it's like fully booked for the next few months, uh, which was needed because it's such a big site, I mean the destination that uh he needed to feed off quickly. But then as well, I think the image that everyone has of Gordon because it's like big character on shouting in the kitchen and all this. Uh and then you see him as actually, yes, nice guy. I mean, yes, he's tough, but it's because he he cares. He cares about the people, he cares about the product, he's a family man. And I mean, at the end of it, but I love for him. I was like, wow, I actually came across like a super nice person.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

And you build around him a lot. Absolutely, and I think you build around him a very strong team of people who love and are passionate about the hospitality. And people who've been with him for a long time, and he has been here for a very long time. Alison also runs sort of the international restaurant for him also. So there's a there's longevity, there's loyalty. His PR team have been with him, internal marketing as well. So there's there's a real, you know, it's not a huge team, but it's I think it's he's built around the around him some very strong.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

Can I can I ask a bit about kind of the the passion of chefs and chef owners, I guess. Like passion has been there forever, right? We can look at grand homes chefs from 50 years ago to today. They love the hospitality experience, the cooking, the food, the kitchen. But it manifests itself in different ways, right? And so look because we're talking about Gordon, let's look at Marco, so Marco PLY, loud, brash. And yeah, Gordon's got that, but he's also comes across as so kind of loving and holistic about the team and caring about the team. Has there been a shift in the way that these Yeah?

SPEAKER_03 32:25

I mean, the that behavior was 80s, 90s, which was it was the way that everyone was raised in the kitchen. It was a brigade, as you were taught, Paul Boucuse was the same in Yon, where the chefs were very hard to work with, they were very tough, revolution, the same. It was the way that Gordon was raised when he worked in Michelin-star kitchen aunt Marco Pierre White as well. So they were just repeating what they've seen, they felt it was it was normal. And then there was definitely a shift where people realize that if you want to keep your stuff, if you want to uh maintain uh standards, if you want to make sure that people it's a happy place to work, uh because the uh I think at the end the customer feels it when it's like a very stressful environment at work and people are burnout. Uh and I think yeah, in the beginning of millennial, that's when it started to change. And I don't know any chef nowadays that's kind of that has that behavior. We used to be like 70 hours a day, a week of chef for chef. It was like impossible.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Yeah, and I think it's so hard to find staff at the moment, right? The industry is still suffering quite a lot, so you better have a nice chef in the kitchen, otherwise no one wants to work with you.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

I think it doesn't mean to be soft, but it means to be fair um and yeah, talk to the staff in a professional manner, but not like shouting or threatening or I g I guess when you're scaling these things as businesses, and you mentioned that the Gordon Resid Group's now a hundred restaurants, you have to build a proper business below you, and that does not work if you're just a shouty madman.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Bubbles, champagne. Let's talk about my favorite being the fizzy thread through your career. What is it about champagne?

SPEAKER_02 34:12

What is it about champagne? Oh gosh, it's it's uh so Champagne when I started working for the sorry, it's been a long-winded French word, the CIVC, so the Comité Interprofessionnel de Vin de Champagne, which gather the entire sort of champagne houses. Um, and I've been at the CIVC for many years visiting uh people in Champagne, and I fell in love with the industry. When you start talking to a winemaker, they tell you about their terroir, you know, very French word again, but they talk about their terroir, they talk about their sabre-faire, they talk about their land, and I think it's uh the passion and the little little star you see in their eyes. I fell in love completely with the world of wine. Obviously, diving into the luxury style of champagne was incredible. But I never never got out of there because you meet, as I said, fashionate people. They have great storytelling, they see the product, you can talk about luxury. So you sort of align all of my key messages and things that I I am very passionate about. Um, and this is for me an incredible product, a very beautiful product. And uh I wouldn't pull it luxury product anymore. Uh it's a champagne, it's it's not, it shouldn't be a luxury, luxury, luxury product. Can be consumed throughout the day, she says. But so yeah, big, big moments and uh around my career. I've never stopped working with champagne brands. So you name them, I probably work for them. I still work for some incredible family and smaller growers brands such as Champagne Palmer and Champagne Drappy, which are sort of smaller, smaller family, but they have great message. We can create some great storyline for them. They're very open to communication, they want to do creative things. So it's it's a real um, it's it's a real real passion, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 36:03

And and talk to me about the future of Champagne. Obviously, if we look at the last decade or two, look at the mad growth in Prosecco, right? And kind of as an industry they got together and whoosh, mega growth. I love the look of disdain on your face when I mention Prosecco through it. I can't stand I can't stand prosecco, but but I can't stand prosecco, but if you look at their production like over the last 20 years, wow, that's mega growth. That's very impressive.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

So jamming to Xin Peng numbers recently, and it's really bad. Yeah, yeah, 80% drop in sales. And a lot of it is because young generation drink less, Chinese economy is slowing down, uh, the tax from uh tariff from uh from the US, from Trump, uh, and they say they have too much stock now. It's like, and some of them are on the verge of like being bankrupt.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Yes, I mean most of the smaller growers have been purchased by big brands, as you know, VMH and others do own now quite a lot of these incredible vineyards. I think the UK remained, I need to check the fact, but I'm pretty sure UK remained the second country in the world drinking the most champagne after France and before the States. So we are still massive champagne drinkers in this country. The big competition we have seen coming forward, mainly in the UK, is the British packet sparkling wine. And grey qualities, but I think the problem with these incredible products is the price. They are charging the same price as a bottle of champagne. And this is where I think it's it's a little bit different.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Let me ask you a question about price. And you may not know the answer, but maybe we can have a guess. What is the average price point of a bottle of champagne that's bought retail in the UK market?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Off trade, off trade, off trade would be probably around, I would say, 30 pounds.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

So it's not really a luxury product as such, and yet it still is positioned and marketed as a luxury, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 38:01

It used to be. When I used to used to work a long time for them, it used to be a luxury and and for the special moment of your life, special dinner party, special birthday, etc. I think now it's uh it's a wine. Uh champagne, after all, is a wine, and wine you can consume it, you know, in moderation.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

But very much for any occasion doesn't So how do you balance how do you balance that then? Are we happy?

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Are we happy that you know it leaves so long, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 38:30

But uh uh are we happy as an industry that it is maybe then moving away from luxury, certainly down towards maybe mass luxury, maybe even down from that. How does an industry that built its brand, its reputation being luxury, reconcile that maybe it's not anymore?

SPEAKER_02 38:48

I wouldn't say it's not anymore. I think it's luxury has redefined itself. Uh luxury in the olden days could have been about price. You're right. It was an expensive car, it was it was an expensive champagne, it was luxury. Luxury is not about prices anymore. Luxury is about a special moment of your time. My luxury time, for instance, is when I go horse riding in Wimbledon Park once a week. That's my luxury moment. So every and it's not expensive. So everybody defines luxury in a very different way. It's the craftsmanship, it's that special moment. So I do believe with champagne, it's still a luxury brand because it's special, but it's not it's not related to price. So I think that's that's the that's the definition of luxury size change. And if you read, there was a big piece in the Times a couple of weeks ago on quiet luxury. So luxury doesn't have to be in your face, and it doesn't have to be a spar pain partier gauche or Rolex. It has to be, it's it's subtle, it's in your life, it's respectful, it's attention to details, it's with you every day, but it's quiet. And I think that's that's where we're heading with our luxury clients.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

It really is quite unique. If I'm just as I as I hear you talk, I'm thinking to fashion and luxury fashion, and it's not like that. What other luxury food items are there that there are parallels? Caviar. Always went hand in hand with champagne's because that price is suitable to a wide audience. Is it though that price point hasn't come down?

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Yes, because now it's it's farm, whereas before it was more like well or real caviar, I'm sorry. No, there's it's farm in Bordeaux in UK, you've got a supplier, so there's there's a more supply of it. That's why the price is still expensive, but it's not as when it used to be only Russian on that Iranian caviar, for example.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

Why did Priseca grow so fast? Is it do people's palates like that sweet nastiness? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

I worked with La Maison de Chocolat for many years, and we could not understand being French why English pellets, the shop was not full all the time. Because we we being French, we're born on more, on darker chocolates. I think in this country, you're raised on Cadbury, sorry, on very milky, sugary chocolates. And the first five years of the campaign for working for La Maison was to educate British people about the value of eating dark chocolates. And I think this is this is a really life mission. It shouldn't be a five years campaign. And and the same for sweet wine or sweeter wine.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

And the thing is, this is why Presekera, the real love the look on your face when you say for secur. I wish we were recording. Um help me with champagne glasses. Over the years, I have realized that I have to drink my champagne out of a particular glass. It took you so long. No, I don't like it out of a champagne flute. I really don't like champagne out of a f I like it out of a wine glass.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

But that's the right thing to do on most of the champagne grower are drinking in a wine glass. It tastes so different. The coupe was created apparently on the breast of uh Marianne Cremet. It's it's see you all know the story. Um it's it's beautiful, but actually it's not great because you lose all the effervescence of the uh the gas or the CO2. And then also you you don't you don't get the uh kind of the scent of flavors because your glass is open fully. And then the fruit is the opposite, it's like it's too narrow, so you cannot put you know, especially when you have one like yours.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Still not funny, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

And then yeah, it's a much better glass of champagne. Um I think a lot of growers are drinking into uh a normal wine glass of champagne. It's a wine at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

And so the where did the myth of the champagne flute come from? Was it to differentiate hey, I am drinking champagne, I'm not drinking a white wine?

SPEAKER_02 42:43

No, I think because of the bubble, if I recall the story right, is because that we see the effervescence of the of the bubble, and there's definitely a story there.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Length to see the bubble.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

To see the bubble coming out.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

There's the length for that and quite close to that. You don't lose the effervescence quickly.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

There's a there's a great piece I will refer to in the FT How to Spend it with uh Alice LaSalle a couple of again, a couple of weeks ago on the on the shape of glasses for champagne. I'll find out.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

Oh please, I need to read that. She's uh she's yeah, very well qualified and because it seems as a as as a beverage to be impacted more so than any other by what you're drinking it out of. Like anything with a champagne out of anything with a thick rim just gives me the heebie jeebies. I prepared something special for you today. Under pressure the cards. So often we'll be talking to um a GM of a restaurant, and you are not a GM of a restaurant, you're an owner of a PR and cons business. So we've turned things on its head slightly, but let me welcome you to a restaurant that you're doing the launch night for.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

That then varies them in your ease, yes.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

Uh so you spent months preparing. The room is full of journalists, critics, influencers, clients, friends, and people whose opinion really mattered tonight and in the future for this restaurant. The GM is stuck in France. In Saint-Tropez, where he met Antoine last night and missed his flight. He's just not making it. You're now the most senior person by far in the building. And unfortunately, Clemence, it's going to be a very long evening. Are you ready? Okay. So I'm going to present a series of things to you, and I want to know how you would respond. All right, the launch has started well, the room looks great, the people look great, the atmosphere is exactly what you'd hope for. Then a member of the team finds you. There's been an argument, Clemence. The head chef has taken off their apron and walked out. The team are looking at you. What do you do? It's okay. We have a PR professional.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Yeah, it's okay. Well, you know, in most of this scenario, we uh we always plan in advance. Planning is keeper event. So it should not this sort of situation should have been planned in case it happened, and we should have a number two, number three, number four. We always have planned. But I can tell you a few stories which you can't plan. Um we uh sometimes control, I mean, we very often control the narrative and we curate stories. So we have a great piece in the Times last week on the consumer affair pages, which are the first few pages of a newspaper. So we came up with a story of magnums are sold more in the summer than in the winter. We came up with a story, we put fact and figures, use our clients, sold it to the times, they got it full page in a time. Um, so that we can control some of the narrative. What we can't control, is I'm gonna tell you to link with your question. We launched years ago, you may recall, uh Chotamate in Soher. But guess where? Guess what happened on the night of the event?

SPEAKER_03 45:35

No electricity.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Well, the Queen passed with Totchamic Lee. So we knew in since that morning that something was was happening, if you recall. Everybody was on call saying, Do we go, do we not, do we do, do we do. We ended up running the event because the CEO at the time was flying from the state, especially for it, and said, okay, I want to go ahead with the night. And then at six o'clock, she was announced that. Um the event was starting at 6.15. So this was another case study where you have to sort of shift everything around. The chef was really distraught, because this is talking about chef and GM. Everybody was very distraught. You had the obviously the Royalists and the North, but so we had a minute of silence and everybody gathered and we had a big hut and everybody sort of celebrated in a in a in a way together. But this is a sort of thing that happened in my life.

SPEAKER_04 46:26

It's what her majesty would have wanted. I am.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Thankfully. I'm sure Jen.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

Why are more magnums bought in the summer?

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Uh-huh. Oh, it's mainly rosy. We drink more rosy in the summer, and rosy are very good in.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

A magnum of any type of wine. Indeed.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

All right. Last tables. Okay, you you say you found someone to take over in the right in the the kitchen. A major VIP arrives. No reservation. Everyone recognises them. It's Tom Cruise. They expect to be seated, but there's no room. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Yeah, I mean his dumper is out the finest seat in the You can come back to my house.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Another important sounds so warm.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

No, I you know, when you do PR and you tend to you have your celebrity and your talents, as we all know them, but also celebrity for us in our PR world of restaurant critiques. And we do, I'm gonna give you a few secrets of what PR is and see do, but we have a face sheet where we give that to all the GNs and they have that at the entrance of their restaurants behind the counter, so they can recognize some faces. And when these guys arrive, if it's a Tom Cruise or if it's a very important restaurant critique, they will find a seat for that person. So I am no GM, but uh in my role is to make sure there is a space. When there's a will, there's a way.

SPEAKER_04 47:47

All right. The the the kitchen is operating, Tom's nestled at the bar, sipping prosecco, he's happy. And then one of the investors in the restaurant arrives, and they shouldn't be messing, but they are. They don't like the music, they don't like the lighting. They start to try and change things in front of the whole team, in front of the guests, the rhythm disappears. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 48:11

That's a that's a tough one. What would I do on this one? Yeah, pass.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Okay, my turbul in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

Like, oh, you look so lucky, you've got the chef turbo. Sitting next to Tom Cruise. Um Okay. One of the tables had a great night asks for the bill. It's a really big bill, and they've eaten everything off the menu, they've drunk everything, but they calmly explain they aren't paying.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

So uh funny enough, shouldn't be funny enough, but it happened to to link again with with PR. We invite instancer and press to restaurant to review and curate stories for the restaurants. And it happened sometime, there's a miscommunication, mainly at weekends or Friday nights, where there's a miscom between between the com team and and the GM. And the journalists of influencer are charged at the end of their meals. As you know, most of the time they are invited. Yep. And it happened that they are charged. So they tend to pull us at about midnight on a Saturday saying, Clemence, I've had to pay for the bill, what's going on? So I ended up quite a few times without bothering the GM in the middle of the service, paying them myself straight away and then get the money back on the Monday. Or yeah, so it's this sort of story of with PR that you have to navigate around. It doesn't happen that often.

SPEAKER_04 49:25

You just ride on it.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

But you know, when a joint sets at the at the beautiful table and then they finish at the bar, so the GM has lost track of who they are, and here we go, the bill is given to them. So it does happen, and we just have to, wherever we are, there's a row for PR with sort it out.

SPEAKER_04 49:40

One of the journalists arrives, it's a table for four, and indeed there's four of them, but it's him and three screaming, badly behaved children to an evening launch event. No other kids in the restaurant. Come on, so what do you do?

SPEAKER_02 49:56

I think we would welcome these people with care. I would call a babysitter and put them on the side to play with those. I would always urge my restaurant time to open these guests with open arm and find a solution.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

Okay. So they're they're happy, the kids are happy, you've fed them lots of ice cream. Another table, you see one of the influencers that you have invited. We need to do wardrobe changes in the restaurant, setting up a big selfie light and taking pictures at weird angles from other tables, really disturbing the vibe. How do you handle that?

SPEAKER_02 50:35

It it happens all the time.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

It happens all the time. You restaurant for dies, inf invite for influenza, what are you? This is I love this. I love obviously talent and influenza. We work with them every day. But when you have, they don't bring sort of massive camera, everything is filmed on iframe nowadays, but they have flashlight. And this flashlight could really disturb the rest of the crowd, that's for sure. So we've got to manage that with care. We have with some of our clients, you know, for example, when you go to Gordon Ramsay Lucky Cats at Bishopsgate or RGR High, which is a 12-seater table, we it's so high, and you've got glass windows. So the reflection of this flashlight in the window can disturb the next customer. So we've had to experience it and realize it was not uh allowing, we would not allow this ever all the time. So we've got certain spots where we will put the influencer and we'll make sure um it would not bother your next door customer who doesn't want this to be disturbed during that night and have a special event.

SPEAKER_04 51:34

So it's been a bumpy night, but you're you're handling it well. Final instant final incident of the night, I promise. So a table order's a spectacular jeroboum of champagne.

SPEAKER_05 51:45

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

The kind of bottle everyone notices. It's opened, it's poured into the right kind of glass. Half the bottle disappears, and then someone declares there's something wrong with it. It doesn't taste quite right. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 52:00

So once again, to bring it back to what we do, I mean, I know what I would do if I had my own restaurant, less the model that matter. But I think on this instance, we when we have press and influencer, most of the time they are briefed on what they can have or can't have. Years ago, when I started my career, quite a few restaurants saying, no, no, they can choose whatever they want on the menu, it's absolutely fine. And we're opening their wine list. We had a journalist opening Obreon 1990 bottles. We had journalists asking for a glass of Petrice, we had journalists, and this is where now we're very, very precise with our clients say no, this is the or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

So what do you say? Do you say that you can have a bottle of wine up to 150 quid?

SPEAKER_02 52:42

It's I think let the sommelier choose for you. I think this is why you experience a restaurant, is uh sommelier to to to sort of give their advice and what's the matching experience of the with the food. So trust the sommelier.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Okay, that's good one.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

But it's it's it's true because that's uh sure is really much under sommelier can can match with the pairing very well.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

I wish I'd been there on that night.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

With the obligation idea, I wish I was too. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

Maybe again soon. So listen, you coat sterlingly well with that. Antoine, I know you've got some questions about the future. Can we um stare into your crystal balls, please? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

I want to hear Clemence what she's got to say about how does she see the future of hospitality in UK, considering that it's quite doom and gloom at the moment. People are talking about the 10% VAT for food. What's your view on all that?

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Um I'm actually despite the the news and despite what we see in the despite what we see and we hear every day, I'm I'm quite optimistic about hospitality. I believe in this industry, the passion that people have, and it's quite unique. It's quite unique. And in the UK, we are in London mainly. I think there's incredible restaurants, incredible bar, incredible hotel, the service and the food quality is sensational. And I believe the trends were all coming from New York a while back ago. I was in New York not that long ago, and I was a bit disappointed with the quality of the sort of the new opening. I really think things are coming from London now. So there's a buzz. We need to surf on that wave, make last. But it's staff, and every customer, every uh restaurant, bars, and and hotel are got to win every single customer at a time. And it's harder than ever. It's harder than ever. But I think we we touched upon what PR is here about building trust and awareness. And my job, I think, has got a great future over the next few years with mainly with AI, with the surge of AI and the burst of AI. We uh we curate this narrative, we feed into AI, and this is uh an incredible chance, I think, for hospitality to evolve and get new customers and be seen in a different line. And I that's why I want to be positive.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

Love it. Thank you. At this point, we ask you for recommendations about who we speak to next.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

What?

SPEAKER_03 55:10

It can be more than one name.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Uh yes, please, visit, but probably a few Someone say, why is it only one? I know. Yeah, thank you. Um I what who would I recommend to you? So there's quite a few things. I think along this discussion I mentioned Andy Wenlock, the CEO of Hordon Ramsey Restaurant Group, very charismatic man. Um I was at an event last week at Dining SW3, Incredible Japanese. I met with a chef, Azaki Sugisaki, and he really impressed me. With his knowledge, I love Japanese food, and I just thought the guy was spot on. Um I'm a very worklock with Saturday Kitchen, you know, the food program, and I know he's gonna be on Saturday Kitchen in September. I think there's something with him. I really I love the buzz. You've got some charismatic CEOs as well, like David Yeo from the Aqua Group, which has now been going also for quite a few years, and they've launched, I believe, uh Aqua in Paris last week or two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

With an incredible terrace. So the chap has got loose to say, and I know he visit the UK quite a lot, so I'd love to hear from him on what he's got to say and what's the next opening. And obviously, we talk about Bluebird, Martin Williams, great fun. He keeps on opening restaurants, and I think he's opened one in New York. So talking about the trends on the other side of the pond, uh, this man has got less to say as well. And I could go on and on, and I just think there's only men in my list so bad.

SPEAKER_04 56:35

No, that's a good that's a great list. Thank you. That's been really insightful, totally genuine, and this is exactly why we do this, Clemence. In hospitality, a reservation guarantees you a seat, but it does not guarantee you a great night, guys. That part is earned. It's earned by the people you rarely see, the ones carrying the room when it matters, those that tell the stories like Clemence. And if you've enjoyed this, share it with someone in hospitality who also deserves to be heard. Thank you for listening. Antoine, all that leaves me to ask is is there room for me at your restaurant, sir?

SPEAKER_03 57:07

Sorry, Julian. There is no reservation. Somebody asked me actually, we need to reply to that. You say, when you say no reservation at the end, is it do you mean that we don't take reservation? Or there's no reservation like no, we there's no booking for it's not a dining.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

So what would you be your reply? Um, I don't know, mate. We'll get into that over a glass of champagne after this. Thanks, Clemos.