Ep. 8 - Talkin' What is Faith (Part 2)

This discussion turns into a very special and personal episode for all of the members of Small Group when the conversation about what faith is turns to sharing very personal and difficult experiences. Each member opens up about very personal struggles that they have experienced while connecting them with what faith has meant to them each personally. 

Thank you for joining in Small Group, and please feel free to participate with us by sending your thoughts, questions, or ideas by commenting, messaging, or by email (goat.bear.lobster@gmail.com). You can also reach out, and find out more about us, at our website: SmallGroupPodcast.wordpress.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:42

Good in loser. We're doing the will of God. This is Small Group Podcast. I'm Benjamin Maxwell.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I'm Lacey.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

I'm Taylor.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

I'm Sabrina.

SPEAKER_06 0:53

And we are back for another episode, another follow-up episode to a previous topic. But before we get to that, good to have everyone back here on Small Group. And thank you for joining us. Newark, New Jersey. And Columbus, Georgia, and Council Bluffs, Iowa, some of our newer listeners. It keeps spreading and spreading.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Let's go.

SPEAKER_07 1:22

So I thought you were gonna throw Indonesia in there.

SPEAKER_06 1:26

Well, I was for a minute, but I'm gonna butcher some of these names. Ho Chi Minh City, I can pronounce that one. We call that Saigon. Whoa, no. We just lost Ho Chi Minh City. Uh-oh. Council Bluffs, Iowa, Lancaster, Texas, and West Java, Roseburg, Oregon. Get ready, guys. Small groups coming to a town near you. It's just a matter of time. We are glad to have you. Thank you for joining Small Group, being part of Small Group. As always, guys, comment, like, share, subscribe, send it to a friend. Let us know who you are so we can know you better. But we're back for another round of Small Group and kick us off everyone's favorite Disney princess.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Jingle bell, jingle, yay, jingle good for you!

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Alrighty. So today's icebreaker question is okay. So you know how batters have a walkout song that plays when they walk up to the plate. Yep. If you don't, you do now. If you could pick your walkout song, what would it be?

SPEAKER_06 2:38

I know the answer to this. I'll let you guys go first.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Okay. I will go. My one of my favorite songs that anytime it plays, I can't help but not dance. And in fact, there are a lot of dance parties where the song was playing that I contributed to. Don't say the macarogna. Don't say the macarogna. No, no, no. It's Don't Stop Me Now by Queen.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

We just become best friends.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

I love that song. And so Taylor and I had a friend group in Birmingham. Well, we I mean we still have a friend group, but they're actually not. None of them are in Birmingham anymore. They don't live there. And when we first started dating, we would have dance parties in someone's like apartment, and it just was like pure joy, like jumping on the couches as like mid-20-year-olds. I love it. And Don't Stop Me Now was a part of the playlist.

unknown 3:35

I love it.

SPEAKER_07 3:36

Sabrina is a dancing fool. She loves to dance. And it's been it's been a learning experience for me because I'm not naturally gifted at dancing, but I know her passion and love for it. And so I've tried over the years to embrace her her just a fraction of her passion for it.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Well, that's not even true. You may not like it, but you're pretty good at it. There have been people that like we've been to a lot of weddings these last few years between friends and being in weddings, and there was this one friend who got married in Colorado, and multiple people came up to you and said, or and me and said, I didn't know Taylor could dance like that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_07 4:20

By like that, they mean No, they said it in a good way.

SPEAKER_06 4:24

I yeah, you can tell by the way I move. So it's the opposite for us. I think I'm a really good dancer, and everybody comes up to the way they say, make him stop. He's scaring everyone away.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

He has mastered the Carlton. He was very, very good at the Carlton. All right, Taylor, what's yours?

SPEAKER_07 4:45

So I I was thinking about this. I think mine would be Uptown Funk. That song gets me going. I enjoy it. And what when I was in college, I coached a lacrosse team. I was the goalie coach. And my starting goalie loved that song, and it was it always played during the second half of our lacrosse games. And I think his passion for it made me even more passionate to like dance to that song. So I think if I had a walkout song, it would be Uptown Funk. Bruno Mars classic.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

I like it. Mine would be Can't Stop the Feelin'. Nice. When it first came out, I I love Charles. This is way before Yabby. I love the movie, but I just I love the song. It it just made me happy. But we have a video of Ben's Paw Paul dancing to it. And now we have videos of Yabby dancing to it. And it's just and like we danced to it at our I danced to it at our wedding.

SPEAKER_06 5:59

I I think you just put it in a reference point. That's the one and only time I've ever seen uh Paw Paul dance, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

That's how much you love me.

SPEAKER_06 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

All right, honey, what's yours?

SPEAKER_06 6:14

So I used to work in sports information, and part of that was at Troy University, University of West Alabama. Part of that was handling the audio, including walkout songs for baseball teams, softball teams, and stuff. So I've I've built a quite a collection on Spotify of walkout songs, some really good ones and unique ones. And so if you're ever curious about that, want to you know dabble, I I can help you out. When the levee breaks, lead Zeppelin, wherever I may roam, Metallica, Imminent Front by the Who, those are some solid ones. But this question actually came up in a press box once. And they uh were they were asking, you know, which one would you walk out to, and I think I shocked everyone with my answer. Because my walkout song would be the Star Spangled Banner. Because you're guaranteed a standing ovation every time you come to the plate.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

That's great.

SPEAKER_06 7:10

And I love America. Roll tie. Oh, and bye-bye, Little Sebastian. I thought by Mouse Rat, I thought that one might make an appearance. But no. 5,000 Candles in the Wind.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

That is one of the greatest regrets of my life. Is like I discovered Parks and Wreck after we got married, and I was like, why was our first dance not bye-bye, Little Sebastian? That's one of the greatest regrets of my entire life.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Jingle bell, jingle, yay, jingle good for you!

SPEAKER_02 7:44

All right, thank y'all so much for the icebreaker question and for indulging me.

SPEAKER_06 7:48

That wasn't as fun. Really, anything dealing with songs is a is a pretty good starter. But like I said, this is going to be another follow-up to a previous episode. This time, we're gonna follow up on Faith. Everybody's favorite topic, faith. We hit this one hard last time. If you haven't caught it yet, talking uh what is faith, part one, go back and check that out. We're gonna it's such a big topic. And there it's like God. You know, we we did two on episodes on God. Who is God? It's there's so much when you're when you're talking about things that almost become indescribable, or like God that is undescribable. Yeah, man, you can spend a lot of time trying to describe it. And so you know, I guess we'll start here as far as any follow-ups as to episode one, you know, any uh additional thoughts or clarifications or anything from from our topic on faith.

SPEAKER_07 9:03

I wanted to point out something that it was kind of on my mind about that previous episode, which I don't think was mentioned in the discussion on hypostasis. This word that we touched on for those who may have missed the previous episode or may not remember that key verse in Hebrews chapter 11 where it says faith is the hypostasis of things hoped for, of things hoped for. And it uses that word in Greek, and and we talked about in that at the end of that episode how we all kind of had a different way of approaching a translation to it and what it might accurately or maybe individually translate to for us, like what we what we were attracted to as far as the translation goes, and and sort of what spoke to us. I just wanted to point out that the early church fathers, especially when you get to the Cappadocian fathers, we're talking about Saint Basil, Saint Gregory, Nyssa, and some of these Turkish modern-day Turkish church fathers, they use this term hypostasis not only in in the way that it is used in this Hebrews chapter 11, verse 1 uh context, but they actually use the term hypostasis as a way to refer to the persons of the Godhead. So they would say that they would say it's the same word, but just in a different context. They would say that Jesus, the Son, God the Father, and that the Holy Spirit are all hypostases.

SPEAKER_06 11:08

Real quick, what time frame are we talking here?

SPEAKER_07 11:13

Yeah, I I think Saint Basil is in I I want to say in like the four or five hundreds, we should look that up. He he he must have been because I and I want to say that Basil and Gregory were brothers, even. I may be getting some of that history wrong.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

37980.

SPEAKER_07 11:37

That was his birth.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

No, lived from 330 to 379.

SPEAKER_07 11:42

Okay, so even a little earlier than I had thought.

SPEAKER_06 11:45

That's an interesting thought. Because when you look when you look at timelines, and I've always mainly heard like you know, like the Gospel of John was written 70 or so years later than the others, or or 70, whatever. It's always kind of spoken of in the context of discrediting scripture. Like you can't believe John because he's written so much later. I think one thing to consider though, in that time in the whole idea of the timeline is okay, they're 300, 400 years later, but they're still closer than we are. And and so, like, my my whole point behind trying to understand like faith is the hypostasis of hope, ellipsis, and then the alectos of things unseen. Like when John's right or the writer of Hebrews is writing that, he's writing the context of that era, he's conveying a concept through that language, and that concept has been translated and transcribed over and over again. And so my whole idea was trying to get back to what is the concept that he's trying to convey. And in the English translations, certain words stand out more than others. So that's that goes back to the whole, you know, which one which one connects with you more than the others. But to the point you're bringing up, I think those, even though they're three hundred two two, three hundred years later, these these men that you're talking about, they're still closer to that time frame. Not a whole lot has been you know transcribed and translated as to the extent that it has to here we are, 2026. So I think that's something to consider and not just look at as a discrediting angle kind of thing, if that makes sense.

unknown 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:42

Very interesting. Because that adds to more clarification as far as trying to understand what is this concept that we're the Hebrews is talking about here.

SPEAKER_07 13:49

Well, and I think it's really, I mean, yeah, I I think there's there's a lot to to unpack with looking at early church history. And this could be its own episode too, but just as an introduction, kind of re-exploring faith. I mean, even the first council of Nicaea, where Nicaea I was like in the early three hundreds, like three twenty-four or three twenty-five or something like that. I mean, it was at that council and by the guidance of those early fathers of the church that we even have the canon of scripture. And you know, we don't have even the same canon as, for example, the Roman Catholic or Orthodox Church. There's debate to be had over some of the apocryphal books, the deuter canonical books.

SPEAKER_06 14:41

Even some that are in the canon.

SPEAKER_07 14:43

Right.

SPEAKER_06 14:44

When you look like the canon that we have, the the collection of scriptures that we have is we're getting looks, is based based not only on actual transcripts or manuscripts, but they also rely on lists, I forget what they're called, those lists of like some of the early church leaders kept lists of books or letters that were read aloud.

SPEAKER_07 15:09

Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:09

And I know there were some that were like kind of debated on a little bit. Right. I'm trying to remember like some of the quote unquote minor prophets later in the Old Testament, like I maybe Ezra. Maybe I'm gonna mess up if I'm trying to recall from memory, but and even like Second Peter, uh First Peter, I've heard some debate about those, and those are so special to me personally. Yeah, I'm so thankful for those. But maybe Jude, I think, is one that may have been debated a little bit more than others.

SPEAKER_07 15:42

Yeah. I guess my point in all of it was just to say that that notion from the some of those early fathers coming out of the the early period of of church history, that they had this notion that the hypostasis concept applied not only to what we mean when we're talking about faith, but also is is ascribable in a f in a theological, philosophical way to the personhood of God. And so to me that indicates that there is this really deep relationship between hypostasis as a concept with the the underpinning of reality itself, that faith is you know, whether you use the word substance, assurance, reality, foundation, it somehow it it is in the adoption of faith in Christ that we have our being and that we that we exist at all. And I mean we maybe take that for granted as believers that everything that exists exists because God wills it to exist. But I you know, I think it's such a profound concept. And I think understanding that that there is this just depth there is cool.

SPEAKER_06 17:07

You're kind of walking that line of you know phil philosophy as far as objective reality. You know, it's not all about your reality and my reality, what is my reality and what is your reality and and so on, and and how to are they different. Like there is a reality, a singular you know, uh objective reality that we're all trying to understand and comprehend in our own way. I think that's a fascinating concept and idea to to try to navigate, but we promised we wouldn't spend all night on the this first point, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Sorry to Well, we'll see y'all next time. That's all the time that we have tonight, folks.

SPEAKER_06 17:50

I can I can feel her. I don't know. I was gonna say squirming, but just it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Y'all gave me time to stop the word also the early church history.

SPEAKER_07 18:04

So no, not the word out.

SPEAKER_06 18:08

I'm about to get hurt.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Help me, help me. So I I love all of this, but uh, what I really want to focus on is the practical side of faith. So it's like all this information is great, but what do we do with it? Yeah, and so and I am very guilty of saying things like faith is a big part of my life, it's not supposed to be a part of your life, it's supposed to be our whole lives. It says to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your soul, all of your mind, and all of your strength. God doesn't just want a little snippet of your life on Sundays and Wednesdays, He wants all of you, and we should live like his beloved children who delight in their father. And I saw, I actually saw a quote on Pinterest that says she is living her best life because she finally invited Jesus into it. So I just love that. I just love that. But um, our faith should influence, it should influence how we do everything, how we work, because it says in everything that you do, do as if working for the Lord, how we love our spouses, how we raise our children, how we handle our friendships, how we honor our parents, how we vote, how we do the dishes and the laundry and the yard work and how we treat the waitress or the Aldi checkout lady. Every little thing that we do, it it says to do everything. I'm about to blow Yells' minds, by the way. It says do everything with love. Well, if God is love, do everything with God. Yeah. Boom. Now we're done for the night.

SPEAKER_06 20:05

I'll say it in Greek. Or Hebrew for my Old Testament.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

No, it's important. I love that you specifically mentioned all the like interactions that we have about throughout our day, not just at church on Wednesdays and Sundays, but the interactions that we have with people at the grocery store. I mean, I'm I think it's important because all of us at the stable fail in some way or another, but it's important to like put effort in. And I've heard this, I think, with our pastor Matthew and other well biblical scholars that I listen to in audiobooks and podcasts and sermons on Spotify. And they've talked about like it being a muscle in the same way that we don't say, okay, I really want to play piano. I'm going to buy a piano, and then in a week from now, I'm going to put on a house concert. Or this person who's very like athletic and skilled at the sport, I admire that. And so I'm going to pick this up and immediately be skilled at the sport that I'm really interested in. No, it's a practice, it's habits that we put in our lives to draw us closer to God. We can't just say, I want to follow God and then snap our fingers, and then we're following Him. It is effort on our part. Intentionality to yes, there's synergy between us and God. Yes, God calls us, and it's a gift from Him to us. But that doesn't just like get us off the hook. We have to exercise that muscle. It's not natural for us to follow Him. It's not natural for us to want to do the things that. we don't want to prioritize like pray or be in communion with people who will strengthen our faith or you know th those things sometimes aren't natural.

SPEAKER_06 22:12

And so praying for those who persecute you. Yeah. Who are you know may abuse you or aggravate you.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:22

That one. I almost want to say because you brought up, you know, loving those like you go to church with absolutely. I I'll stop I almost want to say especially those you don't but don't want to elevate one or the other. They're they're both very important. You know, it's like love God with all your heart and your soul, your mind. And then the second command just like it love your neighbor as yourself. Not just your your the person you go to church with or the people you go to church with not just people you work with your neighbor not just the people that live next to you. It's whoever's closest to you.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah. And it's the person at the grocery store maybe they have an ad you know who knows like the person at the restaurant that we're feeling frustrated with like God loved us when we were sinners and we rejected him and whether that's directly or maybe we've grown up in the church and we've always quote unquote followed him but in our own ways we've been disobedient and God still loves us.

SPEAKER_06 23:27

And so like why why would we not love the person who cut you off in traffic yeah that one's a that one brings it home I think I know that is a tough one especially when that person that cuts you off you recognize goes to church with you.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Well and it I said this in our Romans Bible study class one one day. It makes me think of Peter and I know we've talked about there's there's some biblical heroes like biblical individuals that we like to give a hard time it's not that like I like to give a hard time it's just that there's so many good lessons from them and Peter is one of them. Like I I relate to him I connect with him I'm definitely not connecting with John the beloved I'm connecting with Peter who you see his like strong sense of faith despite his flaws but it makes me think of the scripture where Paul calls him out because he's not sitting with the Gentiles and we all know Peter's deep love for Jesus and he is being disobedient despite being face to face with Jesus. And so that's like a lesson to all of us like just because we have turned our lives over to Jesus doesn't mean we don't have that same like that old sin in our hearts.

SPEAKER_06 24:53

And so it is a daily effort to live a faithful life if I could just real quick a verse that goes exactly what you're saying from Paul to the second letter to the Corinthians 2 Corinthians 13 5 examine yourselves whether you are in the faith test yourselves or not or do you not recognize yourselves that Jesus sorry I'm reading the from the translating here. I'm trying to give my subject and verb right or or do you or do you not recognize yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you if not unapproved are you or if not unapproved you are I might have messed that up English but yeah it's exactly what you're describing examine and test your faith. We talked about last episode on on faith as far as it you know we're saved by grace through faith not uh anything we've done but as a gift that gift has been given to us it's not like you're talking about it we don't just accept the gift and we're done we're we have to exercise that muscle we have to practice we have to test and examine where am I getting in your way I I I was no Taylor Taylor I just thought you were reading the interlinear right yeah I I was well I so I have it written down here in the translinear the direct translation so I was trying to structure my sentence better. So I'm looking at the NASB and it it it starts with test yourselves and then it says un at the end of that verse five unless indeed you fail the test which I think is interesting you know this implication that interesting real quick yeah I'll just read verbatim what the direct translation is sure yourselves examine whether you are in the faith yourselves test or not do you recognize yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you if not unapproved you are kind of sounds very yoda yoda yeah yeah that's interesting yeah in NASP it says test yourselves to see if you are in the faith examine yourselves or do you not recognize this about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you unless indeed you fail the test.

SPEAKER_07 27:26

So it's saying like you know there may be some who I guess it's implying that there are some who are after this examination of the self-examination would realize that they're not living in a Christlike way.

SPEAKER_06 27:39

Maybe that their faith is shallow or that they've wavered in their faith that they're not persevering to the end and that they have come up short in this testing process of faith that we're kind of talking about well and it's kind of very fascinating too we we just talked about with Hebrews 11 1 you know with the hypostasis and the many translations on that but just the sentence structure not just translations different words describing a single concept the sentence structure changing the sentence structure around can change so much of our perception there. You could be careful with that too I think you can you can really mess up the original notion and thought but it is very interesting. I was trying to find off the cuff here I think he says something very similar in Romans but I may not have it as far because we talk about it in the Romans study that you guys did. He says something very similar I think it's more about tribulation you know take glory in the tribulation for it produces and strengthens faith something along those lines yeah it's it's it's Romans 5 I think is what you're what you're getting at.

SPEAKER_07 28:54

So Romans chapter 5 this is in verse 3 and not only this we also celebrate in our tribulations knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance perseverance proving character and proving character hope and hope does not disappoint because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us that's Romans 5 verses 3 through 5. That's what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_06 29:20

Yes yeah thank you yeah and kind of one thing about Romans to like when I'm when I'm right trying to break down faith or find like a a structure throughout the New Testament as far as how to describe faith. Hebrews gives really good definitions and examples Romans it's about righteousness of faith Ephesians I'd sum up as grace and faith so well Romans being righteous righteousness of faith he talks Paul goes on and on connecting faith and righteousness and then I just had it and I lost it where'd it go? Then his letter first Timothy You however O man of God these things flee and that I'm first Timothy six eleven back up to six ten a root of all kinds of evil is the love of money which some stretching after have been seduced away from the faith and themselves have pierced with sorrow have been pierced with many sorrows. You however O man of God these things flee instead of pursue now righteousness godliness which we spoke about in our second episode of God faith love endurance and gentleness just echoes what you just read in in Romans 5 you know the same concepts over and over again we're seeing here from Paul the faith the endurance the love and then righteousness and yeah I mean that's just I just find it so fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah that's good yeah I wrote down which hits on Lacey's point of depending on God daily and I think that one verse that really hits this the Lord's prayer like give us today our daily bread Matthew 6 chapter 6 and I feel like the practical application of that is like we rely on God for our daily needs not just big crisis and then we recognize that we need him every day. And so in real life we pray about decisions big and small asking for strength wisdom wisdom and provision regularly and to kind of also just add to what you both were saying about Romans and suffering and how that builds eventually hope through endurance and character is trusting in God's character even when we don't understand which I feel like is so hard hits on that verse that I think that you mentioned earlier Lacey the trust in the Lord with all your heart and I guess I just I kind of just wrote down like practically that means we don't need all the answers to trust God. In fact we're absolutely not going to have all the answers while we trust him and we choose to believe he is good wise and faithful and in real life that means when plans fall apart we don't just panic maybe we panic but we lean on God lean into him in that panic and we say God I don't understand but I trust you and I feel like for that like what's helped me specifically to trust in God's character when I really don't understand is looking to people who've really struggled in life and who I admire and I I look up to their faith their faith brings me strength. And definitely two people I know have been that for me and Taylor is Sid and Betty. They've gone through like some really tough personal struggles and their faith is just so beautiful. And so I think like if they can be that faithful during such a dark or challenging time I can do that. And there are other people I have a close friend who had a tragic family challenge in her life and her entire family like remained faithful despite that really sad challenge.

SPEAKER_06 33:29

And so I think that's like one in work we say tip slash trick that helps me with trusting in God's character even when I don't understand so no I love that I think that's very important I think it's Hebrews too or actually a new project that we're about to roll out the Profiles of faith this is the ver I think the verse 13 Hebrews 13 I believe this is the verse that sums that project up you know trying to record the not you know influential people the more seasoned veterans of life their walks of faith their their what have they learned in faith and and I think it's Hebrews 133 basically where it talks about look to those influences and lean on those influences and you know trust in them but in another practical way too because I think we're all wired differently I don't know if this connects with everybody but for me and I've experienced this and it and it it becomes even greater like going back to college thinking about when I was back in college like I honestly I I went to college because I felt I was expected. I didn't have anything else to do. I went to college I don't know how serious I was or even if I thought I was going to survive college or much less graduate and then uh I finally did end up graduating against all odds and just that feeling graduation day that I accomplished something. I put so much into something and and I achieved it. There's a a Vincent Lombardi quote that I'm about to summarize but that really connected with me at the time it's like you know there's no greater feeling than being like basically exhausted and beaten down and worn out on the field of victory. That is one of the greatest where you've worked your whole life and everything to to get somewhere and then you're there in victory. Faith is the victory as Paul says but also in his second letter to Timothy my there's two verses here uh 2 Timothy 112 I've used as my favorite verse still is a very impactful verse. Real quick though, you know they're very similar to that Vince Lombardi quote but it's that whole idea of a mat like especially when you've experienced that feeling it becomes easier to kind of look ahead and even though you're going through those struggles, you're going through those that testing and that examining of your faith when you know what it tastes like to be on the winning to the field of victory it's it's easier to hold on to that hope. It's easier to to to have that hope that I can get through this because I can I I can already imagine am I you know and I can already play it out in my mind how great it's gonna feel when I uh you know finish the race. And so Paul similarly well first off 2 Timothy 112 talking about the confidence he has here for this reason also these things I suffer but not I am ashamed but I am not ashamed. I know for I know who I believe and I am persuaded that he is able to deposit or he is he is able to guard Wow I gotta quit reading the translator for he is able to keep that which I've committed to him until that day. And then fast forward to 2 Timothy 47 I have fought the good fight I have finished the race I have kept the faith and so just being able to kind of I'm trying to think of the right word here but like just envision and and conceptualize victory. You know you hear about that from athletes sometimes where you're just before a game you're you're you're playing out in your mind what are you going to do if this happens what do you do if this happens if you roll left and the tackle breaks you know what do you do? You play those things out in your mind so you're prepared when they happen when you've tasted that victory and you you know and you put your hope in that feeling of victory keeping the faith it it does make those testing and examining you know parts of life a little a little bit easier more palatable.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Anyway there's my practice my my easy practice what daily habits do y'all have to like intentionally grow closer to God that that's what I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_07 38:42

One that has been really transformative for me has been a prayer habit that I I've adopted and I really began this trying to think like like a year and a half ago maybe praying with a rope so I you know I think like I I had kind of this maybe this conception of prayer that I grew up with whereby I saw prayer as always needing to be this pouring out of my soul like I am just you know on my knees before God and I'm being yeah like it had to be this like it felt to me at least in my early years of faith and in you know I'm think I'm thinking like middle school high school age years where I would think like if I'm not you know on my knees on the verge of tears like God's not even hearing my thoughts you know like it and I I think implicitly I understood that it wasn't that way but at least it felt that way to me so I kind of had this like breakthrough with my prayer life in the last few years where I've come to understand that prayer can be so much more and is so much more than only being that sort of pouring out of my soul before God. It's not that it's not that but it's it's not only that and so for me praying with a rope has been really impactful. I incorporate I try to incorporate different elements to it so sometimes I'll use a rope as a way to count you know it's it's it just has knots on it you know and I'll use it as a way to like count prayers for people so sometimes I'll be like I have a rope with you know maybe there are 10 knots and I'll say I have a small one and I'll play like I need 10 prayers for individuals like prayers at intercession for that yeah so I'll be like I'm praying a prayer for Lacey I'm praying a prayer for Ben I'm praying a prayer for Sabrina I'm and I move through and it just helps me keep track of of you know how many people I'm praying for and it helps me to stay disciplined. Sometimes I'll pray forms of the Jesus prayer so you know there's that famous prayer in which one 17 it's in it's in I believe it's in Luke I can't remember the chapter exactly but it it's where there's the the example of the of the Pharisee who thinks Jesus describes the story of of the Pharisee who thinks he's all that in a bag of chips and he's like you know look at how great I am I fast I fast like God thank you for not making me like these people who struggle with this and that yeah I'm so much better than them and he has this kind of haughty attitude of self-righteous the self-righteous view of himself and then there's this other man who who Jesus points out as being the example that we should follow who says Lord just please have mercy on me I'm a sinner and I need your help and often Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Right.

SPEAKER_07 42:18

Billy Tolson has prayed that prayer up on stage before yeah and so for me that prayer sometimes I'll pray just that exact prayer like you know on a rope X amount of times and and there are versions of it that I pray not always you know Lord Jesus have mercy on me. Sometimes I'll pray something simple like Jesus you are the Prince of peace help me to feel your peace.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

It's repetitive so he may or we may one of us maybe pray it like 10 times in a row I love that.

SPEAKER_07 42:51

Yeah and you know I think there's like you know obviously you don't want it to be vain repetition. You don't want it to be vain you you want it be it to be heartfelt but incorporating in a rope you know I usually will spend some amount of time on the rope praying just this heartfelt prayer I'll spend some amount of time praying versions of the Jesus prayer you know Lord Jesus you know you are you know you were Prince of peace help me to feel your peace or Lord Jesus you are king of the flood help me to trust in you I draw from scripture when I try and incorporate that King of the flood where are you where is that from that's Psalm 29 I believe I don't know if I've ever heard that that's yeah he sat as King of the flood yeah I think it's Psalm 29 but another one would be I only want you Lord Jesus I only want you and I'll repeat like that one was really transformative for me when I was going through a period of really struggling with some addictions in my life and I would you know when I was feeling a just like this physical desire I would I would pray I only want you Lord Jesus I Only want you. And I would literally sit there and I would repeat that in my mind or out loud until I was out of the situation where I was feeling that pull. And it it was so transformative for me. And then also on the rope, I will usually incorporate recitation of psalms. So psalms that you know a frequent one is the 23rd Psalm, right? Just that reliance on the Lord. But a long-winded answer to your question of transformative practice has been using a prayer rope. I'm just, I and I know that may not be for everyone. I'm strong, I'm someone who struggles, if I'm being honest with myself, with discipline. I wish that I were I'm forming better habits and I wish that it came more naturally to me. But you know, given my my way, I wouldn't, I would not be as disciplined as I need to be. And I just don't want to be that way with prayer. And so the rope helps me. Like if I carry it in my pocket, and like I put my hand in my pocket, I'm like, oh, there's the rope. Even if I don't pray it in that exact moment, it reminds me I should be praying more. And when I go to it and use it, it really helps me.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

So and Paul says we should be praying constantly. And so there are times where maybe it feels like more effort to pray those long prayers that you're talking about, Taylor. Taylor started doing those versions of the Jesus prayer, and then I followed, and that has been so helpful. There was a time, if I'm being honest, this is actually a sin that I feel the most ashamed of, and I don't often talk about because I feel a lot of shame with it, but it's anger. And I think that people, well, I don't know, like maybe people aren't surprised by that, but yeah, I honestly am. Yeah, and uh it's a it's a sin that I think that like uh it's grown, like Jesus, God has helped me grow from that so much in the last like two years, but it's one that I'm not gonna lie, I struggle with like just different things I I wish I had a better control over my emotions. But anyway, so the Prince of Jesus Christ, you're the Prince of Peace, help me to feel your peace. There was one time I was praying that just repetitively until I could feel his peace. And I don't know, I'm not like saying one thing or the other, but I literally felt lightheaded from it and actually started to feel his peace. And so it is so helpful, like Paul says, pray constantly. And so those versions of the Jesus prayer has been really helpful for me to follow that Paul's like instruction a little bit more seriously, and then I'd add to that practice that daily practice, it's almost daily. I don't know if like we're doing it every single day, but it's almost every single day. We start the day off by reciting psalm three together, and then we end the day by reciting psalm four together, and that is like it is so good. Yeah, it's been so helpful. It starts our day off just focusing on God. And I've heard someone say actually in our alpha class that they every day they wake up, they recite the Lord's Prayer. And so, like, whatever the you know, it may be a psalm, it may be a prayer that's in scripture, it's helpful to start your day off doing that.

SPEAKER_06 47:28

Yeah, I was gonna add, I have one too, a line. And I was trying to find it. I have to rely on Taylor usually to bail me out when I bring this up. So get ready. The thorn in the flesh, yeah that Paul talks about. That one has been very important for me lately. You know, he's pleading with God, he's praying, you know, earnestly to remove this thorn of uh from his side, this thorn in his flesh. I think it's a phys physical element, but for me it connects as far as that that whole idea of suffering and pleading with God, please just remove this, and then he comes to him and God says hit it, Taylor.

SPEAKER_07 48:15

And I've heard him say, My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness. Most gladly, therefore, I will boast in my weaknesses that the power of Christ may be strong in me.

SPEAKER_06 48:28

I usually at least keep that my grace is sufficient. I think it that that line, my grace is sufficient, is only as important as the rest of that verse. Because the rest of that verse brings it home. But in shorthand, if I can just grace my grace is sufficient. Especially when I'm praying to God, I'm praying to God, and just I need help with this, what do I do? Help me, and then it just comes to me, My Grace is sufficient. Yeah, there's strength and weakness.

SPEAKER_07 48:57

And that's 2 Corinthians 12, I believe. Yeah. Oh man, that was a first Corinthians. You're again.

SPEAKER_06 49:04

At least I know the words, I don't always know the numbers.

SPEAKER_07 49:08

Yeah, I love that. I it's it's so easy to be weighed down by sin. And I was talking with a friend just the other day, Andre. We were texting, and he was just like, Man, like I, you know, I just wish that we could be with the Lord. Like, you know, I'm like, I do too, man. Like, I there's some times where it's so weighty. I don't mean to call him out in any kind of negative way. I I think we were both just really feeling this notion of, you know, it is heavy sometimes to walk this walk. And you look around and you see trial and tribulation and struggle, and you know, it's just it's just really it can be heavy, but to know that his grace is sufficient and that in our weaknesses his power is perfected, and that that's just a transformation.

unknown 49:59

Nice.

SPEAKER_06 50:00

Boom, right there. Found it.

SPEAKER_07 50:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Thank y'all. Thank y'all so much for being honest and vulnerable and sharing, sharing your heart. We just appreciate that. And honey, would you like to add?

SPEAKER_07 50:16

Yeah, I'm curious to hear what y'all what y'all have as a perspective for those daily kind of practices and habits that have been transformational.

SPEAKER_06 50:27

I don't know if you can call it a habit. More of like back to what Sabrina was talking about, uh an intentional mindset. And I think Lacey had talked about you know, worshiping our faith isn't just about what we do on Sunday or Wednesday night or whatever. And and I've had to sit through or I've listened to, you know, some debate. We we get we get so tied up in debates that don't matter about frivolous things, about you know, when is the Sabbath? Is it Saturday or Sunday?

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Was it a fish or a whale?

SPEAKER_06 51:04

Is it uh you know, like when are we supposed to go to church? Yeah, we think in our cultural terms, our Western cultural terms, when are we supposed to go? Here's the point. You you're to worship God, and I think it is important to worship God with my life every day. And I think that's what gets lost in those debates. I mean, I I'm fine with having those discussions, uh and I and I learn a lot and grow from those discussions. You know, I do believe the Sabbath is Saturday, and I think that is it is important. I don't think that is the only day you are to worship. I think that's where it gets lost. The same can be said about Sunday, the Lord's Day, as some have called it, and you know, that's not the only day you worship. You also worship on Wednesday night and every other day in between, every hour. And and it's it just comes back to being intentional about you know what is faith. It is a gift, as we've talked about, something that you have to practice and and and exercise. There's intentionality behind those concepts alone, but that's also when you go to application, apply apply it to every moment you're awake. How am I applying it right now as I speak? How am I applying it right now as I listen, as I'm driving, as a whatever it is, you need to be intentional. I need to be intentional about how am I worshiping God. We think, yeah, like going back to what I just said, we the the concept and notion of worship in our culture has been boiled down, and when you say worship, typically minds go to you know, being in church, singing, listening to a preacher. Those are just m minor surface level aspects of worship and praise and glory and honor to your creator. And how am I worshiping in this moment right now, wherever you are? That's that's where we I think all need to be more intentional.

unknown 53:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

So I love the verse in 1 Thessalonians 5: rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances. So I keep a gratitude journal. By the way, I do not do this every day. I want to, but I keep a gratitude journal, and it is so amazing to flip back through it and see how faithful God has been. I also keep a prayer journal at ADHD, and it's hard for me to focus when I'm praying. And so, like, you know, it'll start, dear Lord, thank you for this day. Oh, by the way, I need bell peppers from the store. And so yes, that's exactly right. So journaling helps me focus, but it's also a way of looking back and seeing how faithful God has been all throughout my life. And Bible study sounds so obvious, but just like my personal Bible study, but also like going to a you know, a women's Bible study or a study at church, or even, you know, when Ben and I really like break down something, like that that's just amazing. Being in nature, yeah, even exercising because it it clears your your mind and it can feel good, all the things. I have made I've made it a habit to pray out loud with my daughter when we're when we're on our way to school. So we do that and we pray before bedtime, and I that's just something that's really important to me. But another another way of me trying to be intentional with it is I'm nine, I'm a peacemaker. My relationships need to be okay. Because like it, if Ben and I are off, then like it's uh this is gonna sound so awful, but like like if if we are off, then it's hard for me to focus on God. If I'm in a fight with somebody, yeah, it's distracting from my relationship with God. And so so I really like if if I can focus on God and focus on my relationships. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

I don't think that sounds awful. I think that makes sense. It's the it's distraction, like you said. I think that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Well, and like I listen to worship music in the car because you know it it just helped it helps me pray throughout the day, it helps me focus on what I need to be focusing on. And because I I can easily say, I'm too busy, I'm too tired, I'm too distracted, all the things, but I can find time to doom scroll, which our preacher Matthew totally called me out on. Not like he didn't call my name, but he basically did.

SPEAKER_06 56:35

He did when you got up to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Um, but but no, there were there was one Sunday that he said, you know, we say we don't have time to pray, but we have time to doom scroll. Yeah. And I was like, oh man. And I I deleted all my social media from my phone for two weeks after that and about died. Um but by the way, let's just take a second to plug in. If you are looking for a church home, the four of us attend Palo Alto Church of Christ in Panama City. So if you would like more information on that, please email us at goat.bear.lobster at gmail.com. Just gonna plug that in there really quick.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

I have a few thoughts based off what you're saying. So the first is I love the prayer journal and the gratitude journal. I've I've not done that, but I used to journal just mainly about like my day, recalling my day. And I did that every day for the longest time, and I've stopped for the last like eight plus years. So I should do that. I think that's great. Um, and it rem it reminds me, I wrote down remembering God's faithfulness, and I've looked at Psalm 77, verse 11. I will remember the deeds of the Lord, and this is practical for our faith because we can look back to strengthen our trust moving forward, which I really love. And it applies in our real life by recalling how God has provided, guided, or answered our prayers and letting past faithfulness build present confidence, which God has already done more than we deserve. We've been forgiven. And so that you know, we all have many reasons to be grateful and to write in our gratitude journals.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Well, let let's go to the next question of times or ways where your faith was challenged. How did you react? And how should you react?

SPEAKER_04 58:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 59:04

One one for me, I this is kind of personal. I I went through a period where I really struggled with my uncle's passing. I didn't know him. We just had a just kind of estranged a little bit from the family. That's a whole complicated thing, but essentially we didn't have a relationship, and for the longest time in my life, in my childhood, I would literally have dreams of meeting him, and I'd heard him speak on the phone a few times, so I you know, I I recognized his voice, and it was like I would literally have dreams where I would hear his voice, and it was like I was meeting him in person. And I I guess, you know, deep down I always wished that I had the opportunity to meet him and to to get to know him on a personal basis. And that was not part of God's plan. I didn't I didn't know him. And a couple years ago he passed away peacefully. And he was not in pain, but they believe that he just I mean he died in his sleep. Um, so it was it was a really hard time for me just to like reason with like why did I never get to meet him? Could it have been any other way? I mean it was you know, it just was like this I felt like this letdown for me where I'd had literal dreams since I was a child of this kind of reconciliation in the family and this kind of coming together and and it being just a difficult thing to understand that that he was gone and that I couldn't in this life meet him. But and in that moment, you know, I kind of I went through a period of depression about it, and it was kind of very formative in in my in my journey with faith and and sort of was a catalyst for reigniting in a l in a s in a serious way my desire to draw close to God. And so I see it as like this as having this element of a silver lining. But I even now looking back, you know, I and I and I wish that I'd handled it in a little bit different away. I think I wish I could have been more communicative with other people about what I was experiencing, a little more open. I tend to be someone who clams up a little bit and kind of just suffers quietly, although I probably placed too much of it on my wife, Sabrina. But with externally, I I think I tend to just kind of not share. And so I wish I had wish I had leaned on people a little bit more through that loss and that grief. That was a hard time, but looking back, I I do remember very specifically now I can see that the Christmas before he passed, we had a conversation with my family with him over the phone, called my grandmother, and it it was really a lovely moment where he just wished us Merry Christmas, and we got to talk for a a few minutes, and it was kind of just a beautiful emotional thing. But I you know, I'm really grateful for that. But that's an example of something that was kind of like just like a a testing moment for me where I was like experiencing grief and loss, wrestling with like why I never got to know him, and he he just had a difficult journey through life, and he but you know he knew the Lord and he was and you know he died peacefully and was in that way. I was thankful for that, and that was a testing moment for me, and something that kind of helped me I see now in certain ways helped me grow and mature. So it was hard. It was hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:24

Wow, I can't follow that. Quote unquote analytical. I don't want to take away from any of that. I there was I I I've spoken on it kind of a little bit briefly before and past episodes. We we start off, you know, what is faith? Faith is we start off talking in the last episode, the beginning of this episode, the hypostasis of things hoped for. And then the second part of that faith is the the allegos of things unseen. And that this whole notion of things unseen.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:07

That's evidence, is that right?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:08

It could be evidence proof. Yeah. Proof, I think, is gonna be the key word here of what I'm about to explain. I like to look at it as conviction. Conviction of things unseen, the non-visible. Some translations say proof. That word proof has been something I've struggled with in in the past, you know, as far as falling into the trap of debating and discussing the whole notion of, you know, you go through these phases wherever you're at in your spiritual life, you go through these phases of, you know, early on, you're very eager, sometimes overly eager. And you can get carried away to where it's up to me to convince everyone, to prove to everyone where I'm right and they're wrong. And yeah, I've I've I've spoken about it before. There's a book that I just by happenstance came across, and the guy was walking the Bible, and he opened it up with the story that was so convicting to me because I got so wrapped up in the story of uh, you know, and he builds this story up as far as he's he's starting his when he's walking the first five books of the Bible, he starts at the uh Mount Ararat and uh meets a guy that has claimed to climb the mountain and knows where Noah's Ark is. He's seen it, he has proof. And the author of this book, he's he's pleading with this guy, like, you have proof. You know how many people will believe? You know, like if you can prove that the Bible is real, if you can prove that Noah's blood is real, you know how many people that would bring to faith. And I got excited and and like, man, there's proof out there that will prove what I've been saying is right, and that I'm not crazy and I'm not foolish. And I don't know. How it dawned on me or just connected, where it's like there's my problem. It's not about here's the visible proof of you know that God exists and God is real. Because you know, you think about it, if that were to happen, someone comes out you know today and says, here is proof that Noah's Ark is real. One, you have people that now believe because they can they've seen. You know, doubting Thomas in the Bible does that. He said, I won't believe until I've touched the holes of the side, and and Jesus tells him, You believe because you've seen. Blessed are those who believe who haven't seen. And that's the point. And that's and I have found so much comfort in that, in that the conviction of things unseen. I'm not here to prove anything. It's not up to being proven right. It's not up to prove that God exists. You get all these debates, and they're they're some of them can be fun to just entertain a little bit as far as creationism versus evolutionism or evolution and you know, so on. But take hope, take heart in the fact that it's not about proving. If someone came out with visible, tangible evidence that you can hold and touch, that's one that calls into question what kind of faith is that. But blessed are those who haven't seen and believed. The conviction of the unseen, and it takes such a weight off of you of I don't have to prove it. The point is I don't see it and I believe. I am convicted, I am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have entrusted into him until that day.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

That was a lot of humility. Thank you. Thank you for sharing today.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

That was really, really good. All right, Sabrina. Well, I'll share.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

So I think that Taylor may have shared this with you, but we you know, we've been wanting a child for a while, and so we went through a miscarriage last year and late last year, and that was really hard because we'd been trying. And I think that like it's so hard to say that that brings you closer to God because you don't want that to bring you closer to God. But I will say, like, that I've never felt my prayers be so easy other than that moment. And I know that every like woman, it's different, and so like that's not just like the answer for everyone, but I think in a way, like in the past, when I was younger and following God, I would have these questions like specifically with like relationships, like if God is loving and cares about me, like why is he allowing these really challenging, sad, broken relationships in my life? And you know, when I was in college, I worked at this children's advocacy center, and I was like really close to children being physically and sexually abused, and that was really hard, and that was kind of like the turning point for me where I thought, like, you know, a loving God wouldn't allow this. And I I see now, especially with like my our experience last year, how my mind has shifted in the past. I've probably had this, and I definitely had this incorrect transactional relationship with God where I said, like, if this, then I will follow. And you know, like obviously, like God is our creator, our Lord, our father. He deserves my reverence and my following him because just I mean, he's the creator number one, but also he's done so much for my life. But in the past, I always held on to the things that I wasn't getting, and I see like I don't know, so the shift is, and I I preface all of that because it's really hard to do, and I like even I don't want anyone to hear this and feel shame for not having the same experience because it is hard. But late last year when we had the miscarriage, I was really blessed to have a week off from work, like that was like paid, and so I I took that time to like really dive into scripture. I memorized Psalm 139, which like even now, if I recite it, there are parts that make me feel so emotional, and I feel like that psalm saved me somehow. Like, yeah, it's just really good. And I've like never felt so close to God than that chapter, and I hate that that was the reason that I was that I felt so close to him.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:32

You gotta lose this table so I can hug you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:35

But it's hard. I mean, and so many women go through that, and so like there is some like sense of community in that, and I it's so hard, so hard even to talk about because you don't want that to be the reason. But it was, and I am grateful for that, and I am grateful. I've I really felt God being close to me, who is so brokenhearted, and like that scripture is so true, and it's I think especially like get into the word and pray, like be vulnerable, allow God to hold you, and I you know, and it's tough. Like, I don't have all the answers. Maybe there are some women who go through that, and that's not their experience. But like Lacey brought up this really great point, our last episode, which is or maybe two episodes ago, which is like if you don't have the strength to pray, ask people to pray for you. I do fully believe with my heart and experience that God is near the brokenhearted. So I just would leave it at that. You know, I've like been really hesitant to even talk about it because I heard this person say, like, don't feel like you have to talk about something that you don't have full like clarity or understanding about. And I don't feel that. Like, I definitely am not saying that I do. I do feel like my relationship with God is stronger because of it, but I don't feel like I have clarity. I don't understand. I think a lot of us, probably every person in this in this table and who's listening, there's something that they really, really want, and they can't understand why God hasn't blessed them with that. And it doesn't make sense because it seems like it would be beneficial for everyone, whether it's someone who is sick, who they want to be healed, whether it's like a woman who wants to have a child, and you think like, God, you are a good God. Why aren't you providing this good thing? That is really hard. That's a really hard question. And I don't have the answers to that, but I do know that God doesn't want us to be suffering or in pain, and he is near the brokenhearted. So I'll just leave it at that. Thank you, Ben, for the tissue. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:01

I'm glad uh you let me go before you went.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

Uh Sabrina, thank you. Thank you for for being vulnerable and sharing your heart. So I I have a very similar but very different answer. So we we also went through a miscarriage, but I unfortunately did not turn to God. When we had our miscarriage, I had to have a DNC, and the doctor, it was in July of 2020, so it's right in the height of COVID. The day after I got a phone call that the doctor who did the procedure tested positive for COVID and I needed a quarantine for two weeks. So, like my mom was supposed to come down, my best friend was supposed to come down, nobody could be there. And so, and just isolation and hormones do not go very well together. And so I I went through a period of God, I know you are good, I know that you are real, I know that you love me, and I know that you are faithful, but I don't want to talk to you right now. Yeah. And I know that that is not how we're supposed to, but that was where I landed. By the way, Miss Betty Bain. God love that woman.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:30

Um the best.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:31

She's so good.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:33

Hopefully, this saves me from uh our our other episode about Miss Betty.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

Can you grab my Bible, pretty, please?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:39

She just turned 90, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

She just turned 90. Happy birthday, Miss Betty. She sent me a card and said that she had had a miscarriage and that she also experienced postpartum depression, and she basically gave me permission to grieve. And it is right here.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Um, but the Lord works in mysterious ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:24

I did not turn to God, I turned to food, and I turned to Game of Thrones. And which is not, please don't do that, y'all. But I was watching this episode and and a character asked somebody else, what why would God let that happen? And he said, It's not our job to know. Our job is to serve and let that be enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

And there was something about that that just clicked. It's not my job to understand why this happened. And in Acts 1:7, Jesus said to them, it is not for you to know times or seasons that the father has fixed by his own authority. And that that just really, really helped me through that. Um, the other thing, and we will be fervently praying for y'all, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

Uh, but also, so when we got pregnant with Gabby, and uh we were all excited, but I was so scared. I was so scared, and so I went through the same period of God. I know you're real, I know you're good, I know you're faithful, but I don't want to talk to you because I let fear win.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:43

But Ms. Donna Madeiris and Danielle Welch, I asked them, I'm standing that gap. I need you to pray because I can't. And they did. And that is so, so, so good. And then I'm sorry, I'm gonna wrap this up, I promise. Uh, when Gabby was a newborn and I was so tired all the time, and I went through postpartum depression and all the things. And have have you ever heard if God can't or if if the devil can't make you bad, he'll make you yeah, if the devil can't make you bad, he'll make you busy. Well, in my case, it was tired. And so it was just one, I I wasn't like I I had an opportunity to pray, but all I could think of was, what am I doing? And and it was just it was a lot, it was a lot to go through, but it was the the the miscarriage, pregnancy, all the things, it did draw me closer to God eventually. So so it if you have been through a season where it don't give up, don't give up just yet, even if your initial reaction wasn't to turn to God, it's not too late to turn to him right now.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:07

Since we're on the subject of Miss Betty, she uh when we uh when when we were pregnant with Gabby and we had the we had a big gender reveal party. We're one of those people were those people. And we had everybody over and Miss Sid Sid and Miss Betty. Oh wow, I can't just say I have to say Miss Betty. They were over here, and I mean our this place was packed. We had so many people here you know, and Miss Betty pulled me aside and uh gave me some advice and stuck with me. And maybe a little off the topic, but it's Miss Betty. She said, Stop stop for a moment and just look around at all of these people that love you. I think that's I think that's applicable advice for anything. Yeah. And and then uh yeah, just just stop and just look at all of these people that are here who love you.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:13

And adding on to that, I want to ask y'all who have been major influences on your life for your faith.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:24

All four of us can say Sid and Betty. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:28

Y'all can't, y'all can say that. I'll say Sid and Miss Betty.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:32

I'll say grand and granddad. They're the best. Yeah. I I also should shout out one of my really good friends, Daniel Carlson. I don't know. I don't think Dan has listened to this podcast yet, although we're gonna rope him in, hopefully. Listen up, Dan. But he's a Georgia fan, we'll let that slide. Never mind, Dan. Actually, he probably needs to hear this point. Love you, Dan. But Dan was a really big influence on me. He was a former roommate of mine. I lived with him in Colorado when we lived out there. We were in in school at the University of Colorado at the same time. And he was studying physics, getting a PhD in physics. He's one of those just super genius guys. Let's go, Dan. But Dan and his wife, who is also a physicist and a PhD physicist at that. So they're just super brilliant people, but they are two examples of people that are really strong in their faith, just unwavering, unafraid to speak truth in love. They were really influential on me at a time when I was really struggling just mentally and spiritually, and they really pointed me towards Jesus in a way that was exactly what I needed in the moment that I was in, and that in that phase of life I was in. I remember it was just like so simple. There was one point I was over at their house in Boulder, Colorado, and this was only a few months before we moved. And I I was over there and just kind of I saw, you know, I I've been to church with them at the church they attended there a couple of times, I think maybe once or maybe twice. And I just asked them, I was like, hey, I need some friends to just listen to me. And I knew that of all the people who I was really close to out there, that they were the people that I needed to talk to in that moment. And so I went over to their house and just kind of poured it out to them a little bit, and they were just such a source of compassion and strength and love. And I remember just I remember at the end of it both of them just looking at me and Dan saying just in the simplest and most beautiful and succinct way, just looked at me and said, You know, Taylor, Jesus really loves you. All he wants is for you to love him back. And it was exactly what I needed to hear. They just were we were all holding hands and kind of just getting emotional, and they were just such good friends to me. I should shout them out because they really helped me in a time when I needed a lot of help and was not overbearing, they weren't beating my head with Bible or anything like that. You know, it was just like this consistent, loving presence, an example of people who were being really faithful to God in spite of being in a you know, in a place where a lot of people were not walking the walk they were walking, but they just held firm and and and were just really consistent good friends to me. So I really appreciate them. I love them both. They live in California. I don't know if we have listeners. We have listeners in San Jose.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:15

San Jose's moving up the list. That's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:18

But maybe we can add maybe we can add their their town to the to the mix. But yeah, Dan and Olivia, Carlson, amazing human beings, awesome followers of Christ, and just a great example to me and to many others of the power of Christ's love to transform people's lives. I'm hearing a physics episode coming. I'd love to hear what they had to say. I would come home from class. I l I think I've told you, I lived with three physicists. They all have PhDs. I would come home from class and they would be talking about dark matter and like optics and lasers. I want to talk about speed of light. I would have no idea. I'd be like, I'm trying to get cheese out of the fridge. Like, excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:04

I'm just trying to imagine a world where Taylor's the dumb one. Like, I just can't.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:11

I just want to I really want to pick their brains, uh, speed of light travel and relativity.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:18

Okay, well, Sabrina and I will go get dinner that night. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

Yeah, imagine how I felt in that house with the uh lawyer and the three physicists.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:29

It was so like a bad joke.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:31

A lawyer and three physicists. A lawyer and three physicists, you know, step step into a bar. You know, that's the that's the beginning of the joke. And I don't know how it ends, but I'm definitely the dumb one in the joke. So what about you, Sabrina?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:47

Yeah, I mean, I agree with everyone that has been said. So Sid, Betty, Dan, and Olivia, they both have been inspiring to me as well.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:56

And I can't emphasize enough they were only like Christian friends in Colorado, and so we know a lot of really good people in Colorado that we love deeply, but they were just a great example of Christian followers.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:10

Yeah, yeah, all of our friends in Colorado are good people. But good clarification. I would add my oldest friend, one of my oldest friends, Savannah. She we went to church together in college, and when I turned away from my faith, she remained despite going through some really hard family challenges herself. And I really look up to her for that. And similar to what Taylor was saying about Dan and Olivia, Savannah never was like shaming me or trying to force God on me, and kind of just simply left it. I remember her saying, and I don't even know if she remembers this, but she said, like, if you ever have questions about God, let me know. And that's really it. And then, like, years later, coming back to my faith, she just like prayed for me during a day that I called and said, like, hey, I can't pray right now. Can you pray? And then like checked in with me, and it's just been really encouraging and just very like non-judgmental. Like when I think about how I want to be towards people who are non-followers, I want to be someone who is non-critical, non-judgmental, loving, and those are the things that I see.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:37

What about y'all, Lacey?

SPEAKER_05 1:27:39

Then well, I better go ahead and go because the more y'all talk, the more the more y'all talk, the more that come to mind, and my list is growing.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:50

Um I'll go through real quick.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:56

Just giving them mentions, basically. I I was I've been so blessed, kinda like Taylor we were talking about with your grandparents. I've been so blessed to have so many examples of of faith and influences of faith in my life, starting primarily with the patriarchs of my my family, my both grandfathers. My mom's dad, who my so I I've mentioned in a couple episodes the the family bible, having everybody at our wedding getting their their favorite verses, and I only had my dad's dad, my papa, was able to get his verse. My grandpa who had passed away by then I never got his, but my mom reached out to me in the last week or two and told me that his favorite verse was the I Know Whom I Believe and Am Persuaded, which just so happens to be my favorite verse. And so that that was nice. He was such a big influence, and my dad's dad has been a big influence as well, both grandfathers, but in their own different ways. And I've been able to learn from both of their approaches to faith, to life, and been able to appreciate two different mindsets and approaches, and then that echoes down to my parents who they set the they set the example, and both of my parents followed that example and and built on that example for me and my brother and sister, and and then also seeing my older brother, which we've had on past episodes. We they my brother and his wife, my sister-in-law, they've they've been very influential with us through particular struggles and you know, similar struggles that we've talked about tonight. And and and I've mentioned it before, but it's like my brother, you know, we've gotten the same speeches from parents and grandparents. And you can hear speeches over and over again, you can hear lessons over and over again, but then watching my brother go through and apply those probably influence me more. Seeing him become a father or seeing him become a husband and then become a father is like and seeing how he handled it and reacted and grew did so much more for me than you know any kind of speech or lesson. So those are the the main obvious ones. And then you know, Kent Partridge, he was my my boss in my first job right out of college. He was he may be surprised to hear me say this if he hears this, but I he was influenced from in with regards to faith in a different way. He wasn't in like we never really had we had occasional conversations about spiritual matters and stuff like that. And I and I kind of knew where he was he didn't have to say it. And that was an example of him just living faith and and then also in a business atmosphere, seeing him as a boss and seeing how he how he approached that. I learned so much from him, more than I probably ever gave enough credit to. And then one as y'all were speaking, uh, I want to give a shout out to is Miss Kay. Especially with the topics that we're talking about tonight, going through you know, loss and miscarriage. And and Taylor, I don't you and I haven't spoken about this. I don't know if you have a similar as a you know going through that from our from a demand standpoint. You know, my brother was a big influence on that. They've they've gone through similar circ circumstances. You know, I go outside and call my brother, what do I do? You know, how how what do I how do I handle this? Is it safe to go back inside, you know? But then also Miss Kay at church, you know, when it became public, knowledge, everybody. And of course, everybody I'm not this please don't misunderstand me. I'm this is not a woe is me and low is you know, lowly me. Everybody surrounded both of us, but especially Lacey, of course. Absolutely. She's going through a lot more than I will ever understand. But there are times in those situations where like going to the doctor's office, there's there's with your pregnant wife, there's so many times I felt like the enemy walking in there. You know, there's there's certain times where you just feel like you're barely part of it. And in those moments where we're struggling with that, where I've I don't want to say it felt ignored or felt neglected, that's not the case, but it was just like it felt like Miss K. There was there was a one or two Sundays, especially where I felt seen by Miss K and Miss K only. Where she turned around and she could see it. I didn't have to say a word, I didn't have to do anything. She just saw that I needed her, and she delivered in ways that I could never even put into words. And I will love that woman forever saying she's an angel. We are entertaining an angel, and I can't say enough about her, and and it's just they're so special people don't fail to recognize in that in that that could have been a moment I easily overlook and didn't pay attention to. But and most of our conversations, I've not had many deep conversations with her. Most of our conversations are she comes up to me, grabs my arm, and says, God loves you, Jesus loves you. And that that moment and that time, that's all I needed. And she delivered. God delivered through her, and so blessed by that.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:16

Well, um my my answer is similar. So I was very, very fortunate to grow up in the church and you know, go into my grandparents' church, go into church with my family, but but not just go into church, like watching my mom go to Bethmore Bible studies, and my dad at my daddy teaches Sunday school. My little brother is now a preacher, and like seeing my older brother, like you know, I want to put your dad on my list too.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:48

I feel so bad for not adding him.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:50

Oh, you should.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:52

Your dad is also an angel.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:55

But uh my mom, we used to go on these on these women's retreats, we would go to Women of Faith, and we got to meet Sandy Patty and Patsy Claremont and Marilyn Meeberg. And I know that those names mean nothing to some people, but they meant the world to me at the time. By the way, if anybody has any kind of connection to Mark Lowry, he is at the top of my bucket list. Sorry. But anyways, but my friends Stephanie and Summer, gonna give them a shout out because they they are the ones that, you know, hey, I need you to pray for this specifically today. And it's like we go to each other for the tiniest things, but but today it's the biggest thing for today. Like, you know, I need my kid to pass this test, and I I need my kid to not beat up another kid on the playground or you know, whatever it is. And that that is huge. And Ben's family, like your mom specifically, has made a huge impact on me. And there is a lady, Ms. Ann Tate, that she is at my my parents' church, but she was just a pillar uh or she was one of the founders of the church because she she's just a pillar in the church and in the community, and is just somebody that I've I've always admired and loved. And the first time that she met then, she walked up to him and hugged him and said, I have been praying for you for years. But her son, but she has three boys, but her son was my Sunday school teacher, and he and his wife have had a huge impact on my life. I've been on mission trips with them, I've babysit their kids, like I I adore their family, so it's just like kind of like a full, like, you know, full circle with them. But also the guy sitting next to me. Oh Taylor? Oh, but uh I I'm not gonna get into the whole thing, but when Ben and I started dating, we went through a major growth, a period of growth. Um I'm gonna call it that. It was rough. And I thought that it would break us, but it it challenged me because he he would ask me, Well, why do you believe? And and it's like, well, this is what I believe, but I couldn't give an answer to why I believe it. And so, well, it forced me to figure that out. Yeah. And when we uh I I I put a condition on before we get engaged, we got to find a church because I was convinced that was what was gonna be what broke us up was not being able to agree on a church. And then we we found Palo Alto and we got engaged like two months later. But just the way that he prays, the way that he dives deep into everything and he questions everything, and just he he challenges me to be better and to study more, and just very I'm very, very grateful for Yannie. But I don't tell you that enough, but I am you heard trouble.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:43

That kids is how you not don't handle that situation. I was just making an example of myself. I was testing my faith.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:56

Well, guys, it is almost 1 a.m. I don't know the last time we have stayed up until 1 a.m. It's been a while for us, I think.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:08

Not for me. I'm a night owl.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:10

That's not true, not lately.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:13

This is a bit this has been a very special episode. It's gone extremely long.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:17

Yeah, but it's the first one we cried and Lacey got me. You got me.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:24

I think when the note came out of your Bible that my grand wrote, yeah, I was like, I know I was holding it together as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:31

No, I got you again.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:34

Yeah, this has been a really special episode, and I think like just a great way to reflect on how you know we went from church fathers to our personal stories, and it's like, you know, there is this like amazing continuity in the Christian life of like throughout history of how faith is so transformative for us, it has this intellectual component, and we kind of covered a lot of that in the first episode. But this episode's been great in just like bringing it home in a personal way because it is so intimately personal, and I agree. That's been really special. So I appreciate everything that everyone has shared.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:11

Thank you, Lacey. I feel like you led that, and that was really beautiful. You did a great job. That was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:16

Yeah, I'm just gonna say when the girl with ADHD is trying to stay on topic, we're in trouble.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:24

So, how about those church fathers? Oh, Basil, you got me. Basil.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:32

Y'all, thank y'all. Thank y'all so much for doing this with us.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:36

Yeah, we love y'all. I really appreciate you. Yes, we do love you both.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:40

Well, same here. I mean, I say we love you too. I don't feel like that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:45

You're about to say you're all right.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:47

Okay. I know.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:49

You're you've got one foot in the grave. Just jump in.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:52

I'm I'm doomed as it is. I might as well go on. But uh, no, we we we do love y'all. And and we're so grateful for all you that stuck around for this. This has been a very, you know, intimate episode, a very touching episode, and we're so we're so thankful that you were here and and and joined us for that, and we hope it's been some kind of help or encouragement to you. And um, and if yeah, if want to connect and and you know share your story, we would love to hear. So but we really appreciate you joining Small Group, being a part of our family here at Small Group, and uh we hope you join us again next time. Thank you for listening.