A Long Way from Toronto: Building Hope for Others with Ralph Payton Episode 9

In this episode, Vanessa sits down with Ralph Payton, Executive Director of the Greater Richmond Interfaith Program (GRIP), for a conversation about what it actually takes to run a family shelter, and what it takes to keep families under one roof while they rebuild.

Ralph's story starts far from Richmond, it begins in Toronto, Canada, where his passion for this work first took root. Watching his father and mother serve the community, is where the love for community was birth. That early spark carried him through decades of homeless services across the Bay Area, the Bronx, and Miami, before landing him at GRIP, an organization that's grown since 1968 from a small community food pantry into a multi-service agency sheltering unhoused families and feeding thousands of Richmond residents each year.

Vanessa and Ralph dig into, entitlement, wrap around services, and what Housing First was originally designed to do, where it succeeds, and where it runs into friction. They talk about the real barriers our community faces, lack of empathy, funding, capacity, and the gap between a family's needs and what any one shelter can provide and the wins that keep the work sustainable: families kept together, staff who stay, and a community of faith congregations still showing up fifty-plus years later. They discuss the importance of collaboration with other organizations.

This is a conversation about where a life of service can begin, what it looks like to adapt a national model to a local community, and what "success" actually looks like when you're the one running the shelter.

Greater Richmond Interfaith Program (GRIP)
165 22nd Street, Richmond, CA 94801
Phone: 510-233-2141
gripcares.org

Please send your comments and insights. We'd love to hear from you.

Support the show

Greater Richmond Interfaith Program (GRIP)
165 22nd Street, Richmond, CA 94801
Phone: 510-233-2141
gripcares.org

The Whippoorwill Arts Fellowship

https://whippoorwillarts.org/

Plant to Plate

https://plant2plate.org/

Make It Home

https://www.makeithomebayarea.org/

The Early Childhood Mental Health Program

https://www.ecmhp.org/

Please send your comments and insights. We'd love to hear from you.

Support the show

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of Social Abuse, Community Care and Contracts. Last episode, we heard from Anna about what it took for her to get back on her feet, to stay on her feet, and what sobriety looked like. Today we're talking to someone who spends every day building the systems that families like Ana have to rely on. He runs Grip. Grip stands for Greater Richmond Interfaith Programs. Grip has been feeding, sheltering, and housing this community since 1968. My guest has spent his career doing work in San Francisco, the Bronx, Miami, and now Richmond. Today we get to actually look at what the work looks like, what works, what doesn't work, why housing first doesn't mean the same thing in every city. Ladies and gentlemen, my guest, the honorable Ralph Payton. Ralph.

Speaker 3 1:05

What an introduction. Vanessa, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much. I'm honored to be on your podcast.

Speaker 1 1:11

When you said yes when I was launching the podcast, I was getting the different guests that I wanted on. And your yes meant so much to me. It was special. And it was special for many reasons. Because one, I respect you. Two, I understand how busy you are.

Speaker 5 1:30

And so for how busy we all are. In this work, as you know, it takes everything and then finds some place to squeeze a little bit more out of us.

Speaker 1 1:41

Yep. Yep. And so let's just dive right in. Sure. I remember someone hosted an event um near Point Richmond area, was at their house looking at the water. You were there. You remember that?

Speaker 5 1:56

Yes. So it's with Shawn Dunning, I think.

Speaker 1 1:58

It was Shawn Dunning. Yes. And I had the opportunity to pick your brain a little bit more because we wasn't out and about. And you talked about housing first in a way that I had never heard it before. Interesting. And I feel like sometimes organizations, government kind of construed it a little bit and we've gone away from what it actually meant. And so we're going to talk about that a little bit later. But can you share with the audience you? Who is Ralph?

Speaker 4 2:32

How much time do we have?

Speaker 5 2:35

I'm not even sure I know who Ralph is. So let me go back to just even the way I was raised.

Speaker 1 2:49

Okay.

Speaker 5 2:50

So I'm I'm a preacher's kid.

Speaker 1 2:52

Okay.

Speaker 5 2:53

I grew up uh I grew up a Seventh-day Adventist. And um and my you know, my dad was a minister. Um I not a lot of people know this. I'm Canadian. I'm from Toronto. Um so I grew up in Toronto.

Speaker 3:04

Okay.

Speaker 5 3:05

Uh my mom was a nurse. Um, and uh, you know, it's funny, my my parents were actually um Caribbean. My mom was from Antigua, my dad was from Jamaica. I was actually born in Antigua, and then when I was three months old, they moved to um Canada. And there I grew up in Canada. My sister was born in Jamaica, she's a year older than me, and my brother was born in um in Toronto. Um so I I had what I feel was a pretty unique upbringing. I had you know a dad that was a minister and a mother that was a nurse. So truly entrenched in sort of the helping professions.

Speaker 3:39

Okay.

Speaker 5 3:40

Um and that's and that's what I grew up with. You know, I grew up, you know, volunteering, you know, at shelters, collecting food to hand out, you know, um food boxes during uh during the holiday season, uh, volunteering, you know, at my mom's hospital. I still remember you know putting together those um those sugar-free snacks for the diabetic patients. Um and this is you know, this was just my world. This is you know what I thought, you know, we all do. And I have to say, being Canadian as well is a unique perspective because you know, a little different from America, we're not we're not anti-government. We believe that the government is there to help. So I grew up with you know a national healthcare system, you know, national childcare, you know, and all of that. So I feel that I grew up with a with something just inside of me that's you know ultimately the golden rule, you know, made real. Okay. Um, truly, in order for us to have a better community, um, do unto others. That's it, as you would like them to do unto you. I feel that we can distill it down, we don't have to look at anything else. Okay. And we can just, if we were all to live by that, we would have such a harmonious community. We would have people that, you know, understand when others falter for a bit and they, you know, need some help getting back on their feet. Um, if we all were just to live by the golden rule, we would, we would have, yeah, we would, we would, we would all have a better life.

Speaker 5:07

Okay.

Speaker 5 5:07

Um, so yeah, I feel that at the core, Ralph is about doing to others what I want to be better.

Speaker 1 5:14

I like that. I like that. So when you hear the word social abuse, what comes to mind?

Speaker 5 5:22

Great question. And honestly, when I, you know, I had to think about that when I saw the, you know, the name for your podcast. Um, you know, and I almost feel that, you know, social abuse is almost akin to social neglect. You know, it's when we as a community decide, you know, not to look, you know, in certain areas, not to look at, you know, how certain people or certain communities are being treated. Um, so it's, you know, neglect, you know, is sort of a benign abuse. Um, so that's what that's when it, you know, what comes to mind. You know, I feel that um it allows us, it gives us almost permission to look away from what's uncomfortable in our communities.

Speaker 1 6:03

I like that definition.

Speaker 5 6:05

So, what does social abuse mean?

Speaker 1 6:07

You're gonna have to go back and watch uh episode one. And so for those who've never heard of grip, what is grip? What does the organization actually do?

Speaker 5 6:22

So grip is, you know, grip is grip is so much.

Speaker 1 6:28

I was gonna say, what doesn't do?

Speaker 5 6:29

I know I know grip is grip is so much. It's uh, you know, it started way back, as you mentioned, you know, in the late 60s when four churches, members from four churches got together and said, hey, people are hungry in our communities. Um, what can we do? And as simple as that, it was what can we do to help? Uh so they got together every um Sunday, made lunches, made sandwiches, and then you know, handed them out at different church parking lots over the years. That number grew from four to twenty to forty. I think right now we have close to 50 different faith groups, you know, that support the work of the Greater Richmond Interfaith Program. And um, and it's you know, it started with sandwiches and then hot meals over time. Um, and it wasn't in the late 90s that they said, hey, a lot of the folks that are coming to us with food insecurity issues um are also in housed. And what can we do about that? They went to the city of Richmond, they went to the county and said, Hey, can we um can we raise some money to open a family shelter? Um, you know, fortunately, Richmond said yes, the county said yes, and it was in 2005 when we opened up our family shelter here in um, you know, in Richmond. And, you know, from then, you know, it's grown from a family shelter. Now we have a single adult, you know, overnight emergency shelter. Uh we have, you know, um a case management team, we have a career development team. Um there's uh yeah, what what what don't you think?

Speaker 1 7:49

Can you give a little insight to the um the young adult program that you just mentioned?

Speaker 5 7:55

So we um it's it's not so much a young adult program. It's um, you know, it's it's a program more for for children. So I think one of Grip's strengths is um partnering. And so we partner with a lot of agencies. Um, you know, I don't feel that grip is about being able to do everything, it's being able to recognize strong partners in the community and reaching out. And one of our put a pin there.

Speaker 1 8:17

Say that again because I think I believe solely in that. I believe that no one organization can do it. And I believe that's part of the reason I was drawn to you because you came in with an open mind to okay, who are these people? Let me find out who I need to connect with. Like you were so open to I'm new to Richmond, but I'm ready to roll up my sleeve and do the work. And so you saying that, that's huge because I think a lot of times people they may say it, but their actions counter it, right? And but seeing you, so for those of you that are listening, Ralph came on board, it's four years now, correct?

Speaker 5 9:04

Almost exactly four years. It's four years.

Speaker 1 9:07

Um, and just watching you from a distance, because we don't get to have the face-to-face often. We see each other often on Zoom, at least once a month. Um, but and then the integrity that you walk in. And Vanessa, what do you mean by that? I'm gonna tell you because I know that there are some organizations that we may not always, it may be personality, it may be whatever, but to watch you from behind the scenes and you're able to push past any personal preferences and see the need of those that you're serving and the community, that's huge. And everyone doesn't have that strength. So don't you come and say, Vanessa, we're all doing it because we're not.

Speaker 5 9:53

Okay. So not all of us, but there, but there are a lot of us doing it.

Speaker 1 9:57

But we're not talking about a lot. We're talking about Ralph right now.

Speaker 5 10:00

Yeah, a lot of really great work. Um, so it's you know, the early childhood mental health program, they're just down the street from us. They work with uh mental health issues with that zero to five population. And we're talking about mental health issues. Not a lot of folks know this, but uh, you know, when children face homelessness, just four months of homelessness is enough to put them almost a year back academically. Um, and they have, of course, behavioral issues that come with that. Um, so partnering with the early childhood mental health program, bringing them actually on site. They're on site with us five days a week and they run a program in our family shelter, uh, you know, working with um with that, again, that zero to five population, um, and also some older kids as well, uh, you know, really tapping into their therapeutic teachers, their clinicians, um, they do parenting workshops, they do uh family therapy. Um, you know, it's again, it's not trying to do everything ourselves. Um, because when we try to do that, not only are we spread thin, but we just do a lot of things not very well. Um so tapping into that, it's and uh and honestly, when we start talking about partnerships, I there's a whole list of partners that Grip works with that I can go down and you know, maybe at some point we can get into that. Um but ultimately it's you know it's just recognizing um you know that there's good work to be done and that we all not all mostly most of us, you know, that are doing the work out there, we just need to connect, you know, to really uh increase our impact.

Speaker 1 11:27

Thank you. So, you know, the young people are near and dear to my heart.

Speaker 3 11:31

As they should be.

Speaker 1 11:32

So in your partnership with the early childhood center, what have been some aha and like, oh my God, you know, the improvement or just the boost of self-esteem, or what have you seen?

Speaker 5 11:46

So, I mean, all of that. It's you know, we've had some kids again, you know, when you're going through homelessness as a child, you don't know what's going on. Um, so we've had some children that have come to the shelter that have been nonverbal. Um, and again, working with the clinicians, um, you know, having a child, you know, being able to say for that first time, you know, after being with us for months, you know, thank you, or or I want that. Yeah. Um, you know, that is that is it's it's worth its weight and goal. That's that's why we do the work we do. Um, and parents, you know, parents come to us not because, you know, they feel that, you know, parents come to us honestly when they're at the bottom, at their lowest. Um, you know, not a lot of people know this, but research tells us that when a family enters homelessness, usually it's about a year before they end up in a family shelter because they're gonna stay with family, they're gonna stay with friends, they're gonna use their savings, you know, for a motel, they're gonna sleep in their car because uh, you know, for them, entering a family shelter is an admission of failure. Um, and so parents come to us at their lowest. And our job is to say, hey, you're not at your lowest, you've made a decision that will turn your life around. And so, you know, again, partnering with the early childhood mental health program, parenting workshops that really rebuild self-esteem, give them tools to work with their kids, you know, show them that what their kids are experiencing isn't because of their parenting, but because of circumstances. I mean, there's there's so many aha moments. It's you know, when we when a family, you know, finally gets keys to their place again, you know, after we just we just had a family um you know move out, a single dad um with his son move out a few weeks ago um after being with us for a year and a half, and and he was just close to tears. Um, you know, and all of us, you know, it was he was just a great, you know, a great individual, a great father. And um in and him leaving us was bittersweet because, you know, bitter because you know he's become part of our community at that point. Sweet that he finally has his own place. Yes. Um and that's why we do the work that we do. It's um, you know, just making people feel whole again.

Speaker 1 14:01

I love that. So, as I mentioned at the top of the episode, you have worked in the Bronx, Miami, San Francisco. Now I knew about the Bronx when I was doing some research, you didn't share Miami.

Speaker 3 14:16

Oh my goodness. Yes, I started in Miami.

Speaker 1 14:19

Okay, and so what made you say yes to Richmond?

Speaker 5 14:25

Wow. Um, so 10 years in San Francisco is what led me to say yes to Richmond. I think I think it's as simple as that. And honestly, 10 years is maybe five years too many in San Francisco. Okay. Honestly, I I I burnt out, you know, in um in San Francisco a bit. I was running uh the city's largest family shelters for many years.

Speaker 1 14:48

Was that the Raphael?

Speaker 5 14:49

Raphael House. Uh, you know, I was shelter manager for um Hamilton families for many years. Um I was uh co-chair for uh San Francisco's locust local um homeless coordinating board, which is akin to the Council of Homeless is here. So I was chair of that for four years. Um that means that once a month I was at City Hall where people got to tell me, like, Ralph, you hate the homeless, or Ralph, you're doing too much for the homeless. Um, and you know, it it was a lot. You know, I don't I don't think before moving to the West Coast I understood quite how political homelessness is here. Um, I don't feel it's that political on the East Coast. I feel it's more pragmatic. You know, if there's something that needs to be done, you can get it done. Here everybody has an opinion on what should be done, how it should be done, and who it should be done with. Um my goodness. And so so I I burnt out with that, you know, for a bit. And I actually left working in homeless services um to run a nonprofit in uh Hunters Point in San Francisco that worked with children in after school programs because everybody loves children and you can't go wrong there. Um so I was I was with that organization for about you know three years, the pandemic hit. Um and it was um it was in 2022 that uh the recruiter um was looking for somebody uh you know for for grip, and um they reached out to me. And you know, I was still not sure if I wanted to get you know back into homeless services um until I started looking into grip.

Speaker 16:19

Okay.

Speaker 5 16:19

And um and grip is different from you know every other shelter that I've that I've worked with. Uh number one, you know, the fact that it's an interfaith organization. So we have different faith groups. It doesn't matter how different their beliefs are, their core belief that if people need help, we can come together to help them. That touches me in a way that that that that few things will. And especially in this divisive, you know, political climate where everybody believes their way is the right way and what you're doing is wrong. Um the fact that we can say, hey, regardless of who your God is, what your God believes, what I believe, we believe that if people are going through a hard time, we we should be here for that as a community. I mean, that touched me in a way that it still touches me to this to this very day. Um but then the team, the staff that we have over there, it's working uh working in a in a shelter environment is the most difficult social service environment that you can work in. You truly see everything. Um there's domestic violence issues, there's substance abuse issues, um, of course, you know, mental health challenges. Um, so it's inherently uh an environment that's rife for staff turnover. And honestly, you know, in every other shelter I've worked with, and again, you know, I've done this for over 20 years now. Every time I say that, it blows my mind. Over 20 years, I'm so freaking old. Um it's yeah, you know, staff, you know, maybe three, four years before they sort of need a break. Um, but then you know, when I came to interview at Grip, um I met staff that had been working there for 10 years, for 15 years, for 20 years, 25 years. We have a shelter manager, Lori, that's been there for 27 years. Um, we have our weekend supervisor, Lou, that's been there for 33 years. Three years. You know, George, our our front, our front um guy at the drop-in side, over 20 years. Um, and that sort of institutional knowledge, that sort of knowledge working with clients in our community is impactful in ways that I hadn't experienced before. Um, you know, again, this is an inherently stressful situation, um, but we've had you know less police involvement than any other shelter I've been with, um, less, you know, domestic violence issues because our staff are so in tune to what's going on. If they see tensions escalating before it gets to that boiling point, they're stepping in. Hey, let's go for a walk.

Speaker 1 18:46

And can I just say the way they handle even those that and maybe I don't want to say handle, the way they engage with those that aren't a part of the shelter, but that's a part of the community that hang out in the parking lot or alone, like it's with respect. Right? It's with firmness, and I point that out because you say so simply as it should be, but unfortunately, we live in a day and time, as you just mentioned, that is divisive, that you know, and sometimes it's self-centered and sometimes don't take in consideration that's just a human.

Speaker 5 19:24

Yes, right, a human going through a difficult time, a human going through a difficult time to like help lift them up.

Speaker 1 19:30

And so to see your staff. I remember this was about almost two years ago, because there's someone that I love that is on the streets and he was frequenting that area, but he was along the railroad tracks. So I went to go check on him. We were doing something, an event in the I think it was the Christmas event in the parking lot, way to love. And he thought he could come over. I didn't know the interaction that he had had prior with someone, so he was banned. But the respect and how she handled it, she just pulled me to the side and she was like, Miss Vanessa, we can bring him something, but he can't be on property. Right? That was so like I was disappointed in him, but that was so like, now this is how community works because we still have to hold people accountable. We do, right? But there's a way to do it. And so another highlight when I came to meet with you and your staff, the way they respect you, the way that you respect them, and just the momentum and the boost of morale that you bring. So again, I'm born and raised in the area, so I've seen different EDs there, and so I I know some things, right? And so to have you there, and the energy, the atmosphere change is important.

Speaker 5 20:54

I'm I'm I'm honored is important.

Speaker 1 20:57

Um, and you know, some people put their head down, like you said, turn away or say, We got this many beds, this is what we're doing, that's it, right? And as you know, in our little city, shelter beds have been at 110% capacity for the last three years. And I'm I've mentioned before in the podcast, you and BARM, how you've opened up and you've made space and it's temporary space, right? And so it puts me in the mind of being a kid, spending the night at the family member house, and we're gonna make a pallet over here, and you fit in and get in where you fit in, right? And so it's that family thing because if we can avoid you from sleeping on the street, exactly, come on in. And so for our homeless brothers and sisters, I say thank you because I know a lot of them don't have the mental capacity to understand sometimes what that is.

Speaker 5 21:54

Yeah, it's it's so so we don't do this for thanks. We do this because. We want a stronger community. You know, it's as simple as that. It's a stronger community for somebody that's experiencing homelessness, it's a stronger community for all of us. Um, you know, you mentioned interacting with um with dignity and respect. I I hate that we have to have conversations about that. Um, to me, that's that's a basic human way. Part of the golden rule, right? And and it's I mean, it's part of the golden rule. But also, if we want our clients to succeed, they have to believe they can succeed. And the only way they're gonna believe that is if we're all on the same page cheering them on. You can do this. Um, I I tell my staff all the time, I tell our, you know, I tell our clients, I tell our families too, um, that we work for them. You know, it's as it's as simple as that. You know, they are I mean, they they are our boss. You know, what do you need? You know, what would you like here? What would make you feel better? And honestly, I believe at our core, that's what grip is about. It's helping people feel better.

Speaker 1 23:08

Okay, so with that, can you share with the listeners what would you say is different about sheltering a family versus an individual?

Speaker 5 23:18

Oh, so this is so grip is unique in so many ways, but it in one way that is unique and you know truly new for me is having two those two programs on the same site, families and single adults. Um, because not a lot of people understand this, but those are two very different, unique populations. Um, families usually end up in homelessness because of a period of unemployment, um uh medical bills, medical bills. This is where my Canadian like national health care thing comes back, and they're like medical bills. That's the number one reason for middle class bankruptcy in the United States, medical bills. Um, to end up in a homeless shelter because of medical bills. Oh, it's infuriating beyond belief. Um or a partner is trying to get away from an abusive partner. Um so that's you know, families. They come to us because of those issues. Single adults, and you know, single adults are are usually the face of homelessness for most individuals in the community, and their issues are more mental health challenges, um, they're more um substance use challenges. Um we're dealing with two very distinct populations. A population that has gone through, you know, a rough spot in life, um, maybe two, three rough spots in a row that we just need help, you know, giving them the tools to get back on track with families. Um single adults, you know, they need much more support like that than that. Um, you know, they need mental health support, they need, you know, substance abuse, you know, treatment. Um they they need to even you know be supported through the process of even living inside again. Um and that's you know, that's something that we've seen. We've we've had the overnight emergency shelter with us now for um a little over three years. And initially we had a lot of single adults that didn't even want to come inside, they were more comfortable sleeping out in their tent or on their tarp somewhere, and it took a while to build you know those relationships to bring them back in. So you say when people are hanging out in our parking lot um, you know, or the sidewalk, um, we encourage that actually because that is uh it's an avenue for engagement. Um and when they feel comfortable, then they come inside. So we saw individuals that have been sleeping outside for years finally make their way into our overnight emergency shelter. And you said earlier, you know, that it's like you know, when you go over to like a family event or something, um you just you know you put up a cot over there. I mean, that was kind of like us initially. We started with 10, and within you know, two months, we were at, you know, 15. A month later, we were at 20, and now we're at 25 because we absolutely have no room left for another cot, you know, in our dining hall. Um, and you know, we have individuals that, you know, again, after years of being unhoused, you know, they finally made their way in. And then they became so comfortable when housing opportunities opened up for our single adults. We had someone like Ralph, you know, I hear you, but I kind of like it here. It's like a summer camp for adults. Um, you know, they come in at seven o'clock, they have dinner, um, you know, they have their own cot, we put on a movie for Netflix, lights are out at uh nine o'clock. Our staff do their laundry overnight, they wake up at six, they have breakfast, and then we have to usher them out so we can turn it back into a dining hall for our families to come back downstairs.

Speaker 1 26:40

So you just gave an earful.

Speaker 5 26:41

Okay, I did. You just gave a early. Sometimes you can't shut up.

Speaker 1 26:44

You just gave an earful because that transition, I think, is what a lot of listeners and just our regular community members across the United States don't understand, right? When you've been on the streets for so long, you become acclimated to being on the street and you forget what it's like to live indoors. When working at Castro, I had a young man, um, and we would have our coffee in the morning and chit-chat, and he said, Miss Vanessa, you ain't gonna be able to keep me in no apartment. And I said, tell me more. And he said, Well, I'm just going to probably be back outside. He said, Because after so long, it feels like the walls are closing in on me, right? Yes. And so we jokingly said, I said, Well, we're just gonna have to find you a place with a backyard. So when the walls start closing in, I'll get you a tent and you go pitch that tent and then you go back in, right? And unfortunately, because housing is so limited here, the place that we placed him in, actually not far from Grip, didn't have a backyard. And so the adjustment was just that. It was a huge adjustment. And so he would be outside at two or three o'clock in the morning working on a bike, and neighbors are like, he needs to stop, right? And so we would have those kind of conversations. But I think sometimes people just solve the problem, get them off the street. Why aren't they? And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. I know that's not how it works.

Speaker 4 28:11

For all of us, we're all creatures of habit.

Speaker 5 28:13

It's what makes us unique as humans. We can we can adapt to anything. We have people living in the Antarctic, you know, we can adapt to anything. So breaking that habit is not an easy thing to do. And we have to be there and understand that this is a process that's gonna take time.

Speaker 1 28:29

And I thank you all for taking the time to work with them and give them the tools. My next question, and you've made this interview, by the way, just so easy because you've answered a lot of the questions that I had planned. You good so what is one barrier that frustrates you the most that isn't about money?

Speaker 5 28:48

I mean, the barrier to being unhoused is housing. And that's about money. Um so so I don't I don't know how we get around that. Okay it's um it's funny. I know this is you know something, I'm gonna say something now that you know some people are gonna you know not feel not be thrilled with, but so a barrier outside of money is don't say it. I I know it's I I I feel that you know that that we're a bit entitled. You know, I feel that ideologically we have you know a lot of people in the Bay Area that of course affordable housing. Um of course, of course, of course we want people to have you know affordable housing. And you know, yes, yes, just you know, not here. Not in my backyard. Don't don't build where I hike because I you know I love my trails. Um don't build too high because you're blocking my view of the water. Um, but yes, you know, I'm very pro you know affordable housing. Um and so that that sort of mentality that that you can be for something and yet sort of qualify how that something you know comes to fruition.

Speaker 1 30:02

Would you say it's hypocritical? I mean, it's you know let's call it what it is, bro.

Speaker 4 30:07

I mean that's it's your word. Well, what would be your word? It's uh I'm not sure I have a word for it.

Speaker 5 30:13

Um but it's it's it's frustrating.

Speaker 1 30:15

Your word was entitlement.

Speaker 5 30:16

It's it's frustrating for sure. Okay. You know, I said earlier that um, you know, I feel that there's sort of a difference between you know how the East Coast has approached homelessness versus the West Coast. And I feel that it's it's sort of a more pragmatic liberalism on the East Coast, and we have a more idealistic um liberalism here on the West Coast.

Speaker 1 30:39

That's a good pivot because we're going into housing first, right, right now, and we know that it started on the East Coast.

Speaker 4 30:47

New York, yeah.

Speaker 1 30:48

So can you explain to the listeners how the first method on how you understand it, the purpose behind it?

Speaker 5 30:57

I mean, the housing first, it's so fascinating because right now, as I'm sure you're aware, we're in the middle of this massive reorganization and re-prioritization in HUD and how they're approaching homelessness. Um and they're, you know, going back to programs that we phased out in the 90s, you know, transitional housing programs. Um, essentially, housing first is that, you know, we don't need any preconditions for putting somebody in housing. Uh, you know, we find housing and then we try to wrap supports around them once they're housed. Simple as that. What a lot of municipalities don't follow through with is the wrap supports around them once they're housed part. Um that's why it's called housing first. It's not housing only. Um, but you hear, you know, when we house, you know, this many families, you know, this many single adults, and everybody's like, yes, everybody got housing. And then sort of hands are washed. You know, they're in their homes now, and now we can back off. Um, that's not the model.

Speaker 1 31:59

Uh the I would say once they're in housing, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that is the most crucial time of that transition after they've been placed. Because, like we just mentioned, that transition of understanding what it's like to live indoors and just the the responsibility that comes with that, and having the tools, but then also having case management and the support and all of those things. And aftercare component. The aftercare component.

Speaker 5 32:32

And that's something you hear almost nothing about. Um, almost zero funding goes into aftercare. You know, once we have uh, you know, once we help somebody, you know, get into their own home, um, which of course is something to celebrate, um, how can we keep them there? You know, how do we sustainability? Um and it's as and it and it honestly it's cheaper for us to have an aftercare component um rather than letting somebody you know cycle back into the system because they didn't have that support. Um so if they're having issues with their landlord, you know, you can reach out to an aftercare case manager. Hey, I'm having issues with my landlord, can you help you know mediate a conversation? Or, you know, I'm I'm late on my rent. Is there any way that is there a program out there to connect me with you know rental affairs? Um employment issues, you know, I'm about to be fired or I'm having issues with that. Um, can you help me find another job? Can you help me, you know, talk through the process of uh you know even having this conversation with my boss? Those sorts of supports. Um, and it's it's fascinating because you know, all of us have supports. All of us. We like to think that we're self-sufficient. You hear this stuff about you know pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but nobody can pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

Speaker 1 33:48

So when I lost my job, who did I call? Ralph, you know anyone hiring? That's what we do. Right.

Speaker 5 33:53

We have a community, we have a network to fall back on, whether it's family, friends, colleagues, or coworkers, we all have somebody. Um, but for those individuals that have been unhoused for for years, they might not have anybody. Right. Um, so we need to have an established aftercare component that offers them that support. So they know when they are going through a rough spot, it's not time to spiral out. It's just pick up the phone and give somebody a call that they know will help.

Speaker 1 34:18

Okay, so what are your thoughts on those that have issues with substance abuse in as it pertains to the housing first model?

Speaker 5 34:28

Well, I mean, it's the same thing, right? Uh, you know, with housing first. And again, when we look back, it was called a pathways to housing back in like the late 80s, um, early 90s. They had a really robust aftercare model. Um, they had, you know, they had a social worker, they had a nutritionist, they had a nurse, they had a whole team that would visit individuals weekly initially after they moved into their own place. And then that would scale down to you know monthly or you know, every couple of months, you know, the the longer they were there and the more stable, you know, they were in in their um homes. Um, but but having a robust you know aftercare component like that, where if somebody is having you know substance use issues, having somebody checking in on them, having somebody you know go with them to meetings or go with them you know to their treatments, um, you know, having that sort of support where they know that people care and they need to be accountable for their behaviors, because and you know this better than most, you know, substance abuse is no joke. You know, we're talking about you know, when we look at the harder, you know, drugs like crack or heroin, these things rewire your brain. Choice isn't a matter at that point. Your body is telling you that you want this, and so you need supports, it's not just encouragement, you need hand holding, you need very, very rigid structures to help you get back on track. You have to go through that with say that again.

Speaker 1 35:56

You need what? What kind of structures?

Speaker 5 35:59

Very rigid structures to help you get back on track, right? Um, but that means again a very robust aftercare component and funding for that.

Speaker 1 36:07

So and it goes back to what you said earlier. One organization can't do it. You need multiple people at the table willing to love on, provide the rigid structure and be able to hold the hand and pass it on to the next organization and different things of that nature. In your experience across from the different cities, do you feel like anyone runs a textbook version of the housing first?

Speaker 5 36:36

No. Okay. Yeah. It's I mean, it's it's as it's as simple as that.

Speaker 1 36:40

So it always gets adapted.

Speaker 5 36:42

It's again, it's it's it's a long-term model. And uh, you know, and I'm not faulting politicians, you know, there's a bunch of politicians that I love, and you guys know who you are. Um but you know, being a politician is almost short-term. You know, you're looking at what can you point at, you know, that the voters will, you know, support and line with and get you back in. And so having, you know, a number of families that you moved into you know, housing is great. You know, when you talk about, well, you know, I supported this model that kept families in housing, it's less sexy.

Speaker 1 37:14

Um, so that's it is it though? And the reason I say you and I it's not. Right.

Speaker 5 37:20

But I think for you know, for people that are looking at a shorter term.

Speaker 1 37:23

So how do we change that narrative? Because we understand that question keeping them in housing is the sexy part. Yes, right, right, for all of us. Because it's long term, it's not that short-term. Yes, like um, so I have a family member that was addicted to drugs for a period of time. And once they were delivered, one of a part of their testimony was they were always searching for that first high and never got it. Right. And so it's like when we're placing them in housing, it's the first high. But there needs, but that isn't the solution, right? The solution is long-term, whether it's 12-step, whether it's 24 different organizations, yeah, right. It it's the rigid structure, it's the wraparound service, the after service, it's the oh, I didn't forget about you, right? So last episode we talked with Anna. She's been, she was part of ERF 1, and she's been in housing now for two years, two and a half. Awesome. Almost three. Um, but she runs risk of losing housing because rent is $3,000 and she's only bringing in $1,200. So those aftermath, those aftercare services would do a great deal for her and her family right now.

Speaker 5 38:43

So that's another thing that that we've barely even touched on. And that's something that we saw, you know, we saw everywhere. In in New York, we saw this in San Francisco as well. You know, there's a lot of rental subsidy programs helping families, helping individuals move into their own homes, um, but they're always time limited. Um, it used to be way back in the day, you know, two years of rental subsidies, and now if you get six months, you know, you're you're fortunate. Um but invariably it's going to, you know, it's gonna time off. You know, so there has to be some sort of income, income increase, you know, uh component to the aftercare. So that means that it has to be an employment program that's not just looking for jobs, um, but it's looking for careers. And that's something that at GRIP that we're working on right now, we have a career development specialist that's helping our families, our parents find training programs. Like we have um some folks that are taking phlebotomy certification at Kaiser or a medical assistantship certification at Kaiser, uh, working with the unions and apprenticeships so that they can be on the track for career-defining employment that will allow their income to increase over the time before their rental subsidies like fade out. That has to be a component of the aftercare as well, you know, especially if rental subsidies are involved. There has to be some sort of career development component. So when we say aftercare, there's so many different parts to that that really need to need to be fleshed out. And again, this isn't for that individual or that family, this is for us, for all of us having a better community. And I think when we we we should take the focus off of like, you know, how can we help this person? How can we help this family? This is about how can we make our community stronger for us and our children? And that means helping all of those that are going through a rough spot.

Speaker 1 40:34

So you make a good point. So, how do we help the community to understand that? That it's not that homeless person or that homeless family, but this is a community member that needs support. And when they're better, we're better and stronger as a community. How do we pivot from where we are now, as divided as we are now, to becoming unified? Richmond is pride and purpose, right? How do we reflect that?

Speaker 5 41:04

I I so honestly, I don't, there's no, there's no silver bullet there. I wish there was. I would be all over the place with that bullet. Um, but I but I think that, you know, grip as as a model, and I'm using this term you know pretty loosely here, um, again, you know, as I said, we have different faith groups that believe different things, but we can all agree that when somebody's going through a rough spot, we should be there to help. Children should not be unhoused and should not be hungry. You know, as simple as that. I feel that when we get beyond, you know, what we should and shouldn't do, you know, it's as simple as like, hey, do you know if I was in that situation, you know, what sort of support would I want? And if people, you know, would just allow a little bit of empathy to like bleed through because nobody's immune from this. You know, that's so that's something that like hit me way back, you know, when I first did this pivot. You know, my my background is clinical psychology. I was a therapist for many years, and I sort of burnt out early, and I took what I thought was going to be a one-year detour into homeless, you know, services in Miami that's turned into a 20, you know, here we are. Here we are. Um, but it was like I I still remember meeting some of these gentlemen in the uh in the men's shelter in Miami, and um there was a teacher there that like you know, hey, I I I went through um I went through an accident um and I had some pain issues, and I was put on painkillers, and that led to an addiction. Um and and just seeing that truly by the grace of God, there go I. Um, that that nobody is, I mean, we like to think we're special and we like to think that, you know, but but honestly, life has a way of like, you know, saying, is that your plan? All right, we're gonna scratch that, we're gonna throw something else at you. Um so this could happen to any of us. I've seen people that are still shell-shocked that it's happened to them. Um, so we have to understand that we're not special when we're helping somebody else, we're putting a structure in place that could help us or our family or our friends in the future. So again, helping others makes our community stronger for us.

Speaker 1 43:15

I love that, Ralph. Um this question, and you're gonna be like, we don't need to answer that question, finesse.

Speaker 5 43:22

When you preface it like that, we probably don't need to answer.

Speaker 1 43:26

How does the county fit into this, right? So where does grip work in and public systems pick up?

Speaker 5 43:34

So and again, you know, this could be my background. Um you know, because I'm Canadian, I'm a borderline socialist, um, which I'm proud of. Okay. Um, but I believe that government has a place, you know, to support essential services. Um, I believe that family shelters, individual shelters are essential services. Um, so and honestly, in every other Municipality that I've worked in, you know, whether San Francisco, New York, or Miami, the city did fully fund our shelter services. So it was a little surprising, you know, to come into Richmond and uh and really look at our funding structure, you know, for a shelter and um and see massive gaps where we're relying on foundations and foundations over the last several years have done this pivot from operations to you know more impactful work of um advocacy, you know, and policy. It's random words. Right? Um but it's you know it's it's it's really up to the cities and counties to support these essential services. So the county. The county has been an excellent partner. Um you know, the county fully funds our adult overnight, you know, um shelter uh and partially funds our family shelter. Um so I'm super thrilled. You know, again, they gave us half the funding even to open up our family shelter way back, you know, in the early aughts. Um Richmond also um, you know, gave us half the money to open up our family shelter. Um and over the years, you know, we're getting to a place where you know Richmond is really stepping up to the plate.

Speaker 45:15

Okay.

Speaker 5 45:15

I'm you know, I don't know if you just heard this week they released their, you know, based on our RFP. Yes, yeah, which has been years in the um so so I feel that you know both the city and the county are are really seeing how sustained investment in these programs um are better for the community, and they're really finding a way to make sure that these programs remain funded, you know, indefinitely. Um so so all that to say I have I have zero complaints now with the support we're getting from our local governments.

Speaker 1 45:51

And you know, it's good to hear because of course everyone's perspective is different on county and city government, and everyone's support that they receive from county and city is different. And so and so I'm so happy to hear that you have the adequate at this point support um from our county and from our city. Um, but I also think that goes to who you are, who your staff is, and the work that you all have put in. So the things that you've done community-based wise in the last four years, four years, real close in about a week, right?

Speaker 4 46:29

I know about a week. Right, you've been tracking. That's what that's what came to mind. But yeah, in August, I've been here four years. Yeah.

Speaker 1 46:35

And so um, and the things that you do. You said um a little while ago that you all don't do it for the thank you, and it goes without knowing because a lot of the stuff that you have your hands in, a lot of the community people wouldn't even know it, right? The lot of the things that you're supporting and that you're pushing and that you're encouraging, um, they wouldn't know, right? Um, because it's grip all through the conversation, because we didn't say this interview was grip, right? It was with Ralph Payton. However, he's a wonderful representation of grip, but what I see even more so during this interview is that you've embodied grip. And it is truly a part of your essence now, right?

Speaker 5 47:25

I feel this was kind of bizarrely enough, a match made in heaven.

Speaker 1 47:30

And and it came through conversation. You're it was like the the young lady that gets married and being like, my husband, my husband, my husband, right? You was right. And so I just truly appreciate um the love and the care that you and your staff continues to pour out. And I know you don't need the thank you, but I'm from that era where it says give honor where honor is due. And a lot of times, service providers, we work, we work, we work. And it's not that we work for the thank you's or the accolades, but sometimes to hear, oh okay, something working because they're seeing something, it's almost a refresher and a boost to not quit, right? Or sometimes it's okay, let me pause for a moment so that I can stay at the pace that I'm going. And so you're valued in this community. And I just want you to know that because sometimes when you're not from here, you can feel a certain kind of way. Yeah, right. And I'm sure you felt that when you first came here.

Speaker 3 48:30

Initially. Yeah. What's this guy? Come on from San Francisco. Who is he?

Speaker 1 48:35

Where is he from? What is he what is his intent, right? But you've shown your intent was to help people feel better.

Speaker 5 48:44

It's as simple as that. Everything comes from that. When people feel better, they start feeling more optimistic about their future. When they feel more optimistic about their future, they start planning for their future. And and that's it. That's how we move people into housing, that's how we have people have better jobs when they start feeling optimistic about their future. It's funny, really quick as an aside, you know, when I say helping people feel better, yes, you know, it's it's food, it's shelter, but it's more than that. We have a partnership with the Whipper Will Foundation. Um, they fund local bands to come in a few times a month to play music during lunchtime. I love music when I eat. I thought our clients would love music when they're eating, and they do. Sometimes you have people dancing in the aisles, you know, when we have like a salsa band playing while they're eating. We partner with uh Plant the Plate.

Speaker 1 49:30

Before you go there, can you say you set the organization really fast?

Speaker 5 49:34

Can you say the name of the Whipper Will Foundation?

Speaker 1 49:36

Whipper Will Foundation, okay.

Speaker 5 49:38

We partner with another organization, Plant the Plates. Um they work with juniors and seniors in local schools and teach them about urban gardening. Um, so graduates of their program are now coming to grip where we've developed a community garden, and now we have juniors and seniors, and most of them, you know, youth of color, that are working with our kids in a garden that's teaching them about. I mean, you've seen little kids that are getting their hands dirty for the first time or fondling the tomatoes that they grew for the first time. Like all and for their parents to see that, all of these little things come together to help them feel better. And when they feel better, they feel more optimistic about their views. That's something that I keep pounding in. And when people feel optimistic about, so everything from treating people with negative respect to having some music when you're when you're um eating a meal to having our family shelter was redone by this organization called um make it home.

Speaker 1 50:34

I love make it home.

Speaker 5 50:36

And only in the Bay Area do we have a group of retired interior designers that'll come into a family shelter and redecorate it so that our families feel valued. And when our parents feel valued, their self-esteem goes up and they feel that okay, I can do this again, I can get back on track. Absolutely. Even in our dining hall, the um Richmond Rotary Club raised money a few years ago so we can replace our old cafeteria tables that were like 20 years old, falling apart, and they were so bad. And now we have these awesome like farmhouse style tables that our families can have dinner at and feel like a family. Again, all of these things are about helping people feel better and getting them right back on that track to self-sufficiency.

Speaker 1 51:20

Speaking of the dining hall, um, I was there about two weeks ago looking for someone. And George, I said, George, can I just peek in the feet? Come on. And to see people that had been placed in housing. Um, but of course, we still have food insecurities that still feel comfortable coming back to grip and having a meal.

Speaker 5 51:43

Yeah, not just comfortable, welcomed.

Speaker 1 51:45

Yeah.

Speaker 5 51:46

We say once a grip family, once a grip partner, you are always welcome at grip. And honestly, we encourage, especially our single adults, when they do move out, we want them to come back. We want them to feel connected, we want them to be able to say if they're having a challenge, like, hey, this is going on, can I get some help? Right. Um, grip is there for the housed and the unhoused. If you need something, we're here for you.

Speaker 1 52:09

And so grip is doing an amazing job. And before we get ready to close out, I want to mention, because you didn't mention this. I know, right? I want to mention um the medical van that you have. Because you earlier you talked about like health care and just different things. And so the county, I love seeing the health. Whenever I go by GRIP or BARM, it does something for me because I used to be that person that didn't have inch medical insurance, right?

Speaker 5 52:38

And so I understand where by the grace of God goes on. Exactly, having that empathy. Um, so we partner with the um healthcare for the homeless uh in the county's program. And uh every Monday we have the medical van there. Every Tuesday we have the dental van. And and and you know this as well. We a lot of our single adults that have had a substance use history, you know, they're they need some dental work. And I've seen some folks that have gotten new dentures, they're smiling for the first time, the biggest grin in the world, and that is enough for them to start feeling valued and putting them back on the road to self-sufficiency again.

Speaker 1 53:13

It's it's giving them some hope. That's it. It's giving them some hope. So, for those that are listening or watching right now, what would you say to them if they said, I want to help? What how would what would you say?

Speaker 5 53:27

Um, so there's there's a few ways to help. Uh, number one, you know, we're always looking, we're we're a relatively small organization. We only have 22 employees for the four programs that we run. Um and so we rely heavily on volunteers, um, especially volunteers that help prepare meals and serve me.

Speaker 1 53:45

It felt fun being in that kitchen.

Speaker 5 53:47

It's uh it's it and we have it's yeah, it's a very, I don't know, just collaborative atmosphere. There's a lot of joking back and forth. And um, yeah, it's you know, and it's we have volunteers that have been with us for who uh we have a volunteer that um he's 94 now, he's been volunteering with us for over 40 years. He comes once a month and he volunteers. Um, but a lot of our volunteers, our long-term volunteers especially, are getting to that point where they can't volunteer as frequently as they had before. So we're looking for younger volunteers, okay, you know, that can come in, help serve meals.

Speaker 1 54:23

How do they start the process to volunteer? Do they just come to grip? Do they call?

Speaker 5 54:28

So they can call. So they have to um they have to fill out a volunteer application first. Um so you can call, you can go to our website, there's a volunteer application there and um email address for our volunteer coordinator Chantel. Um, you fill it out. You can give us a call, you can even stop by, not necessarily to volunteer, but just to kind of get the lay of the land. Um and if I'm around, I'm always willing to you know do a little tour and show people. Because I feel once people see the work that's being done, how can you not want to help? This is your community.

Speaker 1 54:57

I agree. I won't say last question. So, what does um what does success look like for grip five years from now?

Speaker 5 55:07

You know, I'd love to say that you know there will be an end to homelessness. Well, we know that's not I don't I don't see that happening in my lifetime at least. Let me let me say that. I will not say ever, but in my lifetime at least. Um so for grip to be successful, it's um, you know, maintaining and expanding our community partnerships, um, making sure that we have uh stability in our funding. You know, that means that the county and the city, I would love for them to be responsible for 90% of our funding. So we're not worried about whether or not our family shelter is going to close, whether or not we're gonna have to reduce the number of beds we have for the overnight, you know, adult emergency center. Um, once we have those concerns out of the way, then we can focus on you know our career development pathways. We can focus on building an aftercare, that's my dream, building an aftercare program, um, you know, a multi-case manager, you know, aftercare program so that we are available for those, um, whether it's you know six months or six years down the line, you're going through a problem, give us a call. You know, that that to me would be my dream. Guaranteed funding and an aftercare program to help those that have moved on from GRIP.

Speaker 1 56:15

Awesome. You all have heard it from our very own Mr. Ralph Payton, executive director of GRIP, Greater Richmond Interfaith Programs. All the information and some of the links to the nonprofits that they're partnering with will be in the show notes. I just want to say thank you again, Ralph, for being here and for your yes. Thank you all for listening. If there was something in this episode um that made you think that you have a question about, feel free to email us um to answer those questions. Remember, darkness cannot be diminished if light isn't shined upon it. And so this has been your social abuse podcast, episode nine. Thank you for watching and have a great day.

Speaker 3 57:01

Thank you.