Scouting the NBA Draft with Help

The NBA Draft is full of confident takes that fall apart the second you ask, “What’s the process?” We wanted to go deeper, so we brought on two of our favorite draft evaluators, Parker Fleming and Chip Williams Jr., to explain how they actually build an NBA draft big board from the ground up. We talk film study habits, why recording games changes how you scout, and how to use analytics without letting numbers turn into autopilot.

From there, we get into the stuff every draft fan wrestles with: how much to trust early-season production, how to treat one huge tournament game, and how to keep a single article, rumor, or quote from hijacking your board. Parker and Chip lay out the “holistic” checklist they come back to every year: age, measurements, wingspan, shooting indicators like free throw percentage, playmaking metrics like assist rate and assist-to-turnover, and the on-court context that explains why the data looks the way it does.

Then we start debating names. After the top tier, things get complicated fast, and we dig into prospects like Keaton Waggler, Brayden Burries, Kingston Flemings, Darius Acuff, Aday Mara, Yaxel Lendeborg, and Dailyn Swain, plus the kinds of late-first bets that can become real rotation players. We wrap by talking combine risers, workout winners, and the dream outcomes for Memphis if the board breaks right.

Subscribe to Draft And Stash, share this with the draft friend who argues the loudest, and leave a review with your hottest big board take.

Transcript

Welcome And Draft Hype

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Draft and Stash podcast. I'm your host, Andrew. On today's show, we have two special guests for some of the best NBA draft minds in the area. Parker Fleming, you can follow at Paca underscore Flanka or on his substack elitist page. And Chip Williams Jr., who's a pretty big voice in this area. You can catch him on the radio. You can also follow him at Chip Williams Jr. But before we can get into any of that, we gotta hit that intro.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

With the first pick, Victor Wimbling, Shaquille O'Neal, the Charlotte Hornets collection, COVID Roman. Michael Jordan.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

One of the most exciting drafts I can remember. And in the years I've been doing this, I think this draft is the best and the deepest.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

All right, guys. I'm very excited for today's show. It's been kind of brewing for about a month now. I'm ready to talk to people about the draft. Joining me today is uh Chip Williams and Parker Fleming. Guys, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Doing great, man. Appreciate you having me on.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Awesome. Yeah, yeah, Andrew. Thanks for having us on. Yeah, man. So I like both of you guys, I consider to have your

Building A Scouting Routine

SPEAKER_01 1:18

like black belt, like in the draft, you know. I guess kind of go through your processes real quick. Because for me, like I used to read some stuff, hit some articles, YouTube, you know, things like that. I try to to like slowly build in more stuff. And this year I'm really, really getting into it. But I'm kind of curious of how y'all kind of land.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah, for me, I I typically try during the season, I I go uh why I try to watch a game every other day. Um unless it's like the weekends, someday on a week sometimes on the weekends I'll do a Saturday and a Sunday, just because I don't have work. Um But then like once the once the season ramps up, or once uh March Madness really ramps up, uh I try to get one one game a day until about a week before the draft. Um just to kind of, you know, it allows you to kind of study these guys without being in the moment, you know, where it's like, okay, you can look back on it, where like, you know, you're not watching a game and you're letting your thoughts dictate what you feel in the moment, plus like what may be said on Twitter and stuff like that. Like, for example, I think if I would have done that, I would have been like, oh wow, Darius Acuff number one. I love Darius Acuff, but like I I think I you would have gotten in that moment. Uh, but it just kind of allows you to look back retrospectively, and also too, you kind of get to pick out the games on your own accord. Um more often than not, I try to look at games that either A, it kind of depends on the archetype. Like, for example, like again, like with bigs, I try to look at games where they either A got a lot of rebounds, or B didn't get a lot of rebounds, didn't get a lot of blocks, uh, got a lot of blocks. Um, with creators or like guys on the wing, I try to look and see how they do in games that they either a shot horribly or B uh didn't shoot a lot. And but I mean it's one of those things too with the process and like philosophy is it all changes because everything in the league all changes. So you got to keep up with the current trends and but also too, you gotta learn from your mistakes and you realize, okay, what did I miss last time? Like the thing for me that I I felt like I missed that's really shaped my philosophy is I missed really a bit, not really big, but I missed pretty big on Franz Wagner. Um, because in that same draft, I was valuing guys with like raw skill but amazing athletic tools, where someone was kind of like, oh man, if they could put it together, like there'd be something. But instead, it's like, okay, here's this productive 6'10 wing that can handle the ball, uh, young sophomore. And but it's also like coming into the draft, it was like a role player, role player upside, he'd be a good role player, but like really it's the false ceiling aspect. Um, the only the person I remember saying that on Twitter first was uh Matt Powers. It's just like there's the guy that everybody thinks is the safe pick, but really it's safe. It is safe, but there's also a false ceiling that people kind of miss because they're looking at how safe it is. So you just kind of had to learn from your mistakes, look at what the league's going, but like just the process wise, I try to look at every different angle, whether it's you know how they how they performed, uh, and years of data, whether it's grassroots, uh, multiple years of college, especially now, that helps a lot. And then um the numbers, but also too, just contextualizing in the NBA and contextualizing in the role as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Uh Chip. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think uh I echo a lot of similarities to what Parker's saying there. Um, first of all, shout out to YouTube TV for unlimited DVR, unlimited recording, because uh I record every single college basketball game and um you can kind of watch it on your own time, you know, skip through the commercials, skip through the free throws, stuff like that. Um so it kind of allows you to ingest a lot more um basketball than if you were just sitting there and watch it live. And I do watch live games, but my my preferred mode is to go back and watch a recorded version just so that you can you can kind of skip through all the fluff. But you know, I think um you know, shouting out Matt Powers is uh one of the things is there's a lot of really smart people um who are doing this. I think some of the smartest minds in all of basketball are focused on the draft because I think it is probably the hardest thing. It's not an exact science, no one's ever cracked it, and so you're constantly learning. Um I would say the Jaren draft 2018 was when I really started to lean more into like the analytics side and really try to dive in and understand exactly what all these things are that everyone is referencing. And there

Film Versus Stats Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_03 6:00

was a great quote, and if I could remember who said it, I'd I'd give him credit. But um it essentially said that stats will never replace a well-trained eye, but stats also account for every single minute and every single possession that a prospect plays, and you're not you're probably not gonna be able to watch every single second that a prospect plays. So I like to look at stats, see what they're telling, see the story they're telling, then go back, watch film, and see if that's matching up, or if it doesn't, what's going on there? What are the stats saying that maybe the film isn't, or is it backing up the other? So it's um you really have to have a holistic approach to this thing. There's so many different pieces to it. How old are they? What are their anthros like? Are they short wingspan, long wingspan? What is each kind of piece of the puzzle telling you about what they can project at the next level? Um, and then something I've really tried the last couple years is trying to scout a class ahead. So, like I start to watch these guys as they become juniors and seniors in high school and and try to keep up with some of their statistical profiles too, because I think you can get burned if you're just looking at a one-year college sample. Um, maybe the guy had a really off-shooting year. That's that just happens sometimes with a relatively small sample. So trying to look at everything in the totality. Um, and I'll leave one great quote from uh I believe this was Matt Powers who said the easiest way to be good in the NBA is to already be good going into the NBA. So at some level, these prospects have to be good players, right? It's really hard to suck and then turn into a superstar in the NBA. So um just yeah, all ultimately try to take a holistic approach and learning from a lot of really smart people who do this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, uh, I think in the 2018 draft, you had to actually sell me on Jaron. Um, because I just wasn't very, I was like, I was doing more casual stuff at that point. And I remember everybody wanted Marvin Bagley. Uh, and then a lot of us also wanted Luca because Luca seemed like a person that could come in immediately and play with Mike and Mark. And and and so like maybe like one last, you know, like you know, thing there. And when when like Jaron got picked, I was like, to me, he was such a I don't say like not really like a boom or bus guy, but like everybody's like main main talking points were like his age and his like his overall size and and like and his tools that that may happen or not. And so uh I remember you you kind of talking to me like off the cliff there and everything. So I was like, because I because like at the time I just didn't I didn't know anything about him, but then after like that night, I went and like and watched a bunch of stuff. And then his first interview, I was like, oh, like you know, he's like a a really cool kid. So like so immediately I like I was just like sold on him and everything. So and then in the suburb, like he hit like six threes in his first you know game or something. It was nuts. You're just like, oh, okay, oh man, you know, yeah. Shane Durant, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Shout out to the Stepian, man. Those guys opened my eyes to analytics and and really helped me get there with Jaron. And uh yeah, no, don't get me wrong. You weren't you were far from the only person uh in Memphis that I had to convince about Jaron. And it look, it took a while to get there, for being honest. It was not a uh that guy wasn't immediately awesome. So um, but yeah, man, it's uh I can't take full credit for that. I learned from other people who kind of opened my eyes to that stuff too. So it's just all about making sure that you're um you're in taking the right content from the right people um and being able to kind of parse that out and and form your own opinions from it.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

And

Learning From Past Misses

SPEAKER_01 9:35

like also, uh, you know, you saying that it I think it's also a little uh dangerous to to take in too much information. Um, you know, sure. Like like I've in the past I've learned where, oh my god, like I would just listen to like you know 20 different podcasts and then it just becomes noise like you know at a certain point. Um, or if or if you only listen to like one or two, you know, you can kind of really get sold on like a few like you know types and like you know, and maybe get caught up in their like echo chamber a little bit. Uh Parker, you went to something a little bit earlier. I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

I was gonna say I actually have a funny

Avoiding Noise And One Quotes

SPEAKER_00 10:06

story with that. I the lesson I learned with that was during the COVID year, the COVID draft, the 2020 draft. Like three or four, like three days or so before the draft, the GQ dropped that article and Anthony Edward on Anthony Edwards. He was like, Yeah, I don't really like like basketball, I like football a lot more and all this stuff. And I'm like, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out. Dropped him like five of my board. Meanwhile, he's like just awesome, arguably the best player in his class. He's already a top ten player, like it's just again, it's just the you cannot also just don't uh I just don't take everything like taking everything with kind of a grain of salt, just kind of store it in your back pocket, and if you notice a theme, then like hey, you might have something there. But if it's like yeah, don't try to consume too much information or don't be dramatically swayed one way or another by one single piece of information.

Early Season Versus Late Season

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Um, you had said something earlier uh about trying to watch games. Um, so let's say like early in the year versus late in the year, how much do you hold weight one way or the other? Because there's a lot of times where players will come out the gate, they look amazing, and then by like month two or month three, they're just kind of like falling back a little bit. Do you take in the whole year in terms of both, or it do you think that that's more telling?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Uh I try to do the whole, but really what I try to do is I try to space out my watches. Like, for example, I remember last podcast I was on uh was with Drew Hill and Chris Harrington and Daily Miffian. And I I was asked about something with Wagglers before the tournament, but truthfully, like before the new year, I had already watched four Illinois games just because I was enamored, trying to be like, okay, I need to see what Keat Keaton Waggler is. So I watched him once against against Texas Tech, and I'm like, okay, there's something here, but like you can't. I didn't want to like overwhelm the sample at the beginning of the year and have my judgments there. Because like I think one thing that you like again, one piece of information, but like one thing I always try to evaluate in the process is like how guys respond in big games. So I always try to put in a conference ch a conference tournament game or a uh national or March Madness game in my sample, just because I want to see how guys respond to pressure. Again, you can't be swayed one way or another. That was another thing that happened with me with Franz Von or his last college game. He went one for 10th in the field. You know, you can't there's a reason why there's like an overwhelming sample, and that's the thing that I try to take is I try to take the overwhelming sample, but also too, like with a lot of this stuff too, there's caveats. Like, for example, last year, Khan Knipple, like every time I watch Duke, it's like okay, he's not hitting shots. Like I remember telling somebody, like, man, I kind of wish that like there's the the saying, like the the oh shit shooter, where it's like if you leave him open, defenses will just say, oh shit, because he's open. And I'm like, God's not making people pay for that. And then the last like two months of the year, he went like 45% from three. And he's now like one of the like historically like had a historic rookie season shooter ball. So it's like again, like you can't you can't outweigh one sample versus another. You gotta, you really gotta take like the totality of things there.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I think it's funny you uh talk about Keaton and uh Khan there, and like both instances, uh, they kind of got an extra chance of shine because the other player got like hurt. Look, like no, uh look at like because I believe Khan really took off when like you know, Cooper missed maybe like three or four games in a row or something, and then all of a sudden Khan just doing everything looks awesome. And then at the beginning of the of this year, uh Boswell got hurt, and so Waggler just all of a sudden is playing like a main point guard duties. Uh, it's so funny that you also bring him up because I I was literally I texted Chip uh two hours before um they played against Purdue, and Wagner went just nuclear. And like I was like, hey man, I've been hearing about this guy, Keaton Waggler. I think he's pretty good. And like then immediately he has like 40 something points. He he hits like eight threes. Everybody's like, and then all of a sudden, like he went from like you know in the late 20s to like 15 to 10. And now he's uh at like number five on my board currently, but you know, it just it's weird. I like it just out of nowhere, it's like pops off.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

No doubt, man. And look, I'll tell you that I just finished a pretty deep Keaton Waggler dive, and and one thing that um that uh has kind of stood out to me over the years doing this is oftentimes stars will show you that they are stars before they get to the NBA. And if Keaton Waggler turns out to be a star, we can go back and watch that Purdue game and say, yeah, man, the signs were there, you know, like this guy's pretty freaking big time, and he was trying to tell us in college that he's pretty big time.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

For sure. Uh

Playoffs Impressions And Rookie Talk

SPEAKER_01 14:53

quickly uh with the NBA, uh, we are in the first round still, but I kind of want to ask you both, is there anybody that has um maybe like shown up for you? Because I I have a guy that I assume Chip's gonna talk about, but uh but Parker, I didn't know if you had anybody that you thought in the first like you have four or so games that's just been really great so far.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, um let me go um out of left field here. Yeah, I only say out of left field because uh he's like a longtime vet, and this is a show primarily about the draft, but like the Rudy Gobert legacy series. I'm not a Rudy Gobert fan, but like it's just fun that he's getting his respect.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Um it's cool because like he I think he's unfairly disrespected by like his own peers, um, particularly like Draymond Green, Shaquille O'Neal. I think yeah, I think they're just absolutely disrespectful about him when really he's like probably gonna be in the Hall of Fame. And it's just really like granted, I love Jokic, but it's awesome to see that he's um he's just kind of getting his flowers and really kind of playing putting together the best basketball of his career, and like this is uh and it's coming out of Giga Tongue. So if he keeps this up, like he's on a crash course with Victor Wimpanyama, and that's gonna be so fun.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I I hate it. So that's that's yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

No, no, that's my that's who I'm giving flowers to. That's who's impressed me in the playoffs, Rudy Gobert.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

It's really unfortunate that the Wolves looked great and Anthony Edwards is hurt now. It's like, you know, it like it was shaped enough to be a pretty fun run for them, baby. And now it's like, oh, it's it's his other thing now, you know. Uh Chip, I assume that you're gonna talk about a rookie, uh, but let's see.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Yeah, I am gonna talk about a rookie. It's the great Colin Murray Boyles, man. Um I mean, my gosh, dude. This guy, he's just the best, man. He's he's kind of like this throwback power forward type player that you might have seen more in like the the 2000s or something like that. But just a freaking dog, man. Just just give him the ball, get out of the way, let him wreck every single offensive action, let him just be smarter and stronger than everyone else on the floor. Um, I love it, man. Really, you you can tell sometimes right away that guys are gonna be good. And uh, we're getting it with C and B in the playoffs. It's uh been so much fun to watch.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah, it's it's funny because I feel like both of y'all probably like obviously knew like a whole bunch about him. And uh like I had him number six on my board, but it's it's always fun to see all the casual fans that they don't pay attention, and then all of a sudden these players that other people knew were good just start like popping off. And that's how people kind of begin to build their name and and their like you know, long-term, like you know, overall um like uh player appeal and everything. Uh Boyles has been great, man. Like, you know, his like his tape was great, his numbers were great, like he was a good interview. Literally, it got so overblown on what he couldn't do that nobody cared about the other like 99 things that he actually could do. Um and then Shocker, he goes to Toronto, he's been awesome for them all year, and and now more so in the playoffs, where he he's had like uh like at least at this point in time, um, his first three games, I think he averaged like 18 points a game or something. Like he was just awesome. Um, and not to like be like uh, you know, too much love that way. Um the other kid, um battle has also been like a really good for them as well. Um, I want to talk about the the other rookie in Philly. Um, I mean, like BJ's been great, man. Like, you know, he he's come in, he had some. I mean, like, to be fair, he got like a heavy, heavy load of usage early on. Um, and his stats looked a little like inflated, but man, in the last like two months, he's been great. Like, you know, he just he looks like he's gonna be a great running mate for Maxi. Uh, and you know, and then he like him winking at the camera was so cool. Like, you know, just like just like aura farming. It was just awesome. So uh did y'all have any picks besides the thunder uh to win it?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

No, it's bad to back. They're they're gonna go bad to back. It's all inevitable. Um I'm just ready for the I'm just ready for that uh Grizzly or Thunder Um Spurs. The Thunder Spurs series. It's it's gonna be amazing. For sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

I I am frankly just frustrated. And unless the Nuggets can come back from 3-1, which I guess they can now that Anthony Edwards is probably done for the rest of this series. Um, I was really looking forward to Wimby Jokic in the playoffs. And so I'm hoping that the Nuggets can reel off three in a row so that we can get that. But yeah, other than that, man, it's it's gonna be the thunder, I would assume. Um, I still think there's some really good playoff matchups that we're gonna get, and it's gonna be a fun playoff um overall. But yeah, it's it's probably just gonna be the thunder doing it again.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, I mean, like I also don't want to like uh you know not talk about Harper, like who's been great as well. Uh but uh as soon as you know Peyton Watson got hurt, I mean, like that that was their their their only real piece of depth. Uh and I don't know, did they they just look so thin all of a sudden? Uh and like all the Jokic magic, it's just not enough at this stage all of a sudden. So I don't know, man. Like, I feel like uh maybe they're on the decline unless there's some like really good moves, you know, here and there. Uh, do you think Boston or like anybody else in East will would have a chance? For sure.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Yeah. I mean, I think Boston could absolutely give him a series, especially if Tatum, you know, as he continues to ramp up. But uh, I mean, the Thunder are just so well built, man. And and yeah, barring any sort of major injury, I just it's gonna be really hard to beat that time four times in seven games.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Gotcha.

Big Board Rules And Top Four

SPEAKER_01 20:30

All right, cool. Um, all right, so let's move into uh, I guess the uh bulk of this episode, even though we've been talking a lot, you know, about this other stuff. Uh, and that is gonna be our big board talking. All right, so kind of how this is gonna work is I'm just gonna go down my list. Uh and Chip and Parker will stop me when I say something smart or something dumb. So hopefully uh they don't stop me that often. But you know, um I'm assuming that our our you know first four guys are probably all the same. Um I've got Camera Bruiser at one. Uh y'all's number two is probably not mine. Um I currently have Kayla Wilson at two, uh Darren Peterson three, and then AJ at four. Do y'all think that that's egregious or or that that's fine or what? You got the top four.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

So like whatever order, I feel like uh the order is your flavor. Whatever you're whatever you look for in a basketball player, like I I can't I can't disagree with any of it.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Yeah, I'm with you. It's it's the same top four for me. I I have them in a different order. I have Cam, Darren, AJ, and then Caleb. Um, but yeah, I mean that that's the four, you know. And if you want to have Wilson too, that that doesn't uh that doesn't really bother me too much. I I mean I think I could push back on it, but like I wouldn't push back that hard. You know, they're all really good.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

So I mean we were talking a little bit, you know, be before we started. Uh I mean, like, if if if all the combine stuff comes out and Caleb's numbers are not. Great, then like obviously I would probably move him down, you know, at least one or two spots.

Caleb Wilson Strengths And Limits

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Um, so I've heard some concerns over his motor on defense, and I've watched maybe four games and I've seen him like dive on the floor and do things. Um, is there concerns with y'all with you know Caleb Wilson in terms of him you know putting forth the right amount of effort?

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Not for me, no. Um, I think my concerns for Caleb, and and this is more just you know, you have to separate these four somehow, is that so far at this point he's not shooting threes, and I don't think he can be a primary rim protector. And if he could do either one of those things, then I think he'd have a very strong argument to be the number two guy. Um but he just doesn't do them right now, and I don't I think the three-point shot can come along just because some of the mid-range stuff is really impressive with the touch and expanding that out. We've seen players do that. Um, but I don't think he'll ever be a primary rim protector. And so that means he's going to have to play with either a five or one of these like Scotty Barnes type wings who can be the primary rim protector. So it just kind of limits team building a little bit and forces you to put a specific archetype on the floor with him. Um like I said, this is like picking with a fine-tooth comb. You have to separate these guys somehow. So that that's ultimately why he landed four for me of that group.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, and like for me, it's just I'm of the belief that the other three can be like the guy on a really good team. Whereas I think Caleb kind of tops more as a a number two or a damn good three. And a lot of it is just the the scoring utility, like pretty, pretty good in the mid-range, great finisher. It's just the shooting kind of does like what Chip said makes him fit dependent. But there is a world too, though, where like I I I think you actually sent this to us, Andrew, where um on the double, is it called the double bounce pod, right? Double post double post, okay. Double post podcast where they said that Caleb Wilson's assist percentage jumps up to like 25% when he doesn't share the floor with Henry Vizar. So like if he goes somewhere and they really like unlock that playmaking, and the next thing you know, that you essentially got like a like a stretchy version of Draymond Green, then maybe we're getting somewhere. But like what Chip said, like, can he be a primary rim protector? I don't know, because like Draymond's was it in his absolute peak, amazing rim protector for a size. So like there's just a lot of stuff where there are very niche roles for yes to play, whereas I'm more confident in the other three playing more engines, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean, like there's uh like even for me, and like I'm a huge, you know, basically with Caleb, like I'm very biased, like you know, uh from Memphis. So so like you guys that are you know play with that you know chip on their shoulder and like just want to like win at the highest levels will always give me like a little bit more of what I want, you know. And the fact that he played against Cameron Boozer, played against Darren Peterson and and AJ, and just went at each of them in those moments, it was just like super, super cool. Uh and to me, like, you know, so he he he thrives on that. Uh, but but yeah, I mean, like, you know, he he currently doesn't have any real offensive thing to like really fall back on. He doesn't, you know, on defense, there's a lot of that potential projection there, but you know, he's not really doing anything specific yet. You know, his uh a lot of his you know current impact on stocks is okay, but you know, is that length-based? Is that field-based? Uh he he's a crazy athlete uh in like like in space, you know, like he's awesome on that like weak side uh in like transition, he's crazy. I think he might have some more skill, maybe like on the ball, actually. Like people tend to push him in that five range. And like to me, I'm thinking like more of like a Pascal Siakam, like you know, more of that like four that can maybe play some three, but you know, if his shot doesn't really get it to that lower 30s range, then it really, really hurts him as well. Uh, but yeah, I mean, all four of these guys are great. I mean, you know, and and I hate it that like you know, Cameron Boosier, you know, folks think he's boring, but he he's such an awesome prospect. He's like he is he's so great. And it's weird that if he doesn't go, you know, one, two, or three, I don't know what we're doing. It's just crazy.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

All right, so totally agree, man. I'm I'm fired up for this next group of guys because I think the first four is easy. I think after this is the hard part. So I'm I'm excited to hear what you

Keaton Waggler At Number Five

SPEAKER_03 26:37

got.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

All right. So number five, uh, I I talked a little bit about it earlier, and that is Keaton Waggler. Um, I look at him and like I I get all of the concerns, you know, like his frame's a little small, you know, he he doesn't have any dunks. Uh, you know, his his at the rim percentage, I think it's only like 58%, you know, as opposed to being like over like, you know, like in that mid-60s or higher. Um, but he just does so much that I already really, really like, you know, the fact that he he does a really good job at not overplaying what what he can't do. Um, he tends to be really in control at all times. You know, he just he reads all the sets really well. He's not some great defender, but he doesn't overexpose himself in terms of getting beat. You know, he's always his how he moves his hips is really well. Uh, and then, you know, he just every once in a while he'll do those like Halliburton things where it's just like this quick, you know, like low dribble, you know, and it's like a like an awesome three-point shot or something. I don't know. He just he always feeled feels very composed. Uh and then just in terms of his like overall ability to like shoot, you know, I mean, like, you know, his he ranked uh number 14 as like a volume shooter for me, like in my stats. His his assist percentage was like number 12 out of everybody. Um, his true shooting was over uh you know 600. Uh, you know, his you know, points per possessions are right around like a 1.10. I don't know. So he just has a lot of really great things. Um, his floor is a little bit lower than other guys, but I think his ceiling is also a little bit higher as well. So I don't know. Um, if he could be like a Josh Giddy that has like a really great shot, I think that that would be amazing. But I mean, are are y'all more mixed on him or kind of in that same vein?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Yeah, no, uh Keaton Waggler, I so this is something I plan on like writing about Waggler um soon, uh, probably after the lottery, when I can, you know, I'll know where the Grizzlies pick is. But he blends the concepts of projection and production quite quite impeccably, you know. Uh people kind of consider him more of a raw prospect because of his physical tools. However, he's just he's super productive. I'm trying to pull up this query that I uh tweeted out uh weeks ago. Um, but essentially it was players that shot, I want to say 40% from three, had a two assist to turnover ratio, um, and had a assist percentage greater than 20. I think that was that was it. Ah, I found it. Here we go. Underclassmen with assist percentages greater than 20, assist per assist to turnover ratio greater than or equal to two, box plus minus greater than or equal to 10. And then I had I had to change this up because the original was 40% from three, but I changed it to 39 and a half. These players are Tyrese Halberton, Lonzo Ball, Reed Shepard, and Keaton Waggler. Keaton Waggler was shooting 40% from three before we shot two of 10 from three uh in the uh last game of the season against Yukon in the final four. But this is just a guy with the size, the shooting touch, and just the overall, like playmaking basketball cue, and the whole finishing stuff, yeah, it's real, but like he still gets downhill, he draws a lot of fouls, um, goes to the free throw line. Um, and I just I just think this is a guy where it's like, okay, he's not gonna be the same guy that he is now. And I my my line of thinking too is like if he gains, let's say I think he's about 180, 185. What if he gets up to like 195, 200? Yeah, and next thing you know, you're talking about a guy who can be a shooting guard or even like stretches, he could play the three. That's gonna open up so many more outcomes for him. And so that's my thing with Waggler, where it's like this guy blend, he already has the product production and he has a projection where he can go all these different routes, but also like like you said, like he showed in that sample and the um and the stretches without Boswell that he could be a primary and the lead the where the league is going, it's bigger initiators. You have the Shays, the Halliburton's, Kay Cunningham, really like, yeah, Anthony Edwards needs a point guard, but he's the initiator. The offense runs through him. Um so I just think like that Waggler's my five. So like okay, all right, cool. I just think I think he's gonna be. I think out of the all the guys outside that top four, I think he has the best case to really be like a transformative piece for a franchise. Uh Chip.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah, um, I think you guys hit on a lot of it. I think that the the key thing you touched on is that I think there's a pretty high speed floor with this guy to go along with a high ceiling, where like even if the athletic stuff holds him back from being a true, like primary on-ball guy, um there the off-ball shooting was elite, even though he didn't do it just a ton last season. But he he hit him at an elite clip off the catch and shoot. And then one thing that just stands out to me every time I watch it, he is just so unique in the way that he dribbles the basketball. It's just kind of like long swooping dribbles. He covers a ton of ground on his setbacks, and I just think that his craft and his IQ is going to allow him to be able to create space when he has the ball. Um, so I'm I'm very in on Geek Waggler. Um, he will comfortably be a top seven guy for me. Um, and and I think that whoever drafts him, you know, like I said, there's some star upside, but worst case scenario, this is gonna be a foundational piece for somebody's franchise, um, even if he's a third or fourth starter.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Um, some like, you know, just more like you know, fun stuff in terms of like like his like numbers or whatever. So um he has a rim pressure score, which you know, it's kind of like uh this like encompassing thing that I built that you know takes into account their like ability to get to the rim, score at the rim, draw fouls, you know, like like things like that, right? So for guards, like like the the average is around like a 4.5 to like a 5.3. Uh and then elite is like over like a 7.4. So so for him, he is at a uh a 7.74. So like uh, you know, it's just like his ability to to get there is crazy, you know. And and like I agree, like, you know, he's not doing a great job at like always finishing, but his ability to constantly create this like you know, pressure and just you know, he just always gets in the esteems. And I think once there's more like just overall room for him, it's it's it could get really, really fun. Um, you also look at, you know, in terms of of his shooting overall, like he shot like almost 50% from three. Not not like, you know, in terms of his his uh shot percentage, but in terms of his like shot diet or whatever, you know. So like you know, he's just he's always out there gunning. His usage was only a little over 25, which I think is really, really important because his assist was almost at a 24. So, you know, he didn't even take on like an over, you know, 30% from usage, but his his assist rate was crazy high in terms of of what he was able to do with with less touches than um you know his uh you know guard partner and everything. So I mean, like all that is just is great, man. Um, I I think he he is probably the next best person to become a star outside of those like in top four. Um, but you know, it's it's not guaranteed, and like if his work ethic is not great, then like you know, it's kind of you know just is what it is.

Braden Burries And Guard Value

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Um, my number six is Braden Burries. I don't know if y'all wanted to talk about him or not. I am completely like on board with him. Uh I I know that shit was uh a little hesitant, and then and then finally started to actually like watch more of his games. And I just I think that dude's gonna be a stud. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Yeah, Burry's very cool. I don't have a ton to add on him. I think um, you know, I I think that the key thing, like kind of the ceiling for me, is like what's the on-ball juice look like? Is this truly just a two-guard? Or can this ultimately become a primary and something beyond just what he did next to Jaden Bradley in Arizona? But he's awesome, man. He he has one of my favorite micro skills where he's like one of the best defensive rebounding players that's 6'4 and under. Yeah. And like he will just soar through traffic and grab a defensive rebound. And I freaking love that stuff, man. So shout out to Braden Burries, I'm a fan.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Yeah, I have Burries at nine, and I guess my main thing with him, it's I I like a lot about what he brings. Like, you know, I don't I think one thing that could kind of separate him uh amongst that guard group and that next uh after that top four is that you know he can defend, and you know he can defend multiple positions. You're not gonna have to question that, like Chip says the rebounding kind of just play plays bigger than what he is. The thing that I actually probably my favorite skill in the draft is his gather step in transition. Yes, just immaculate. But also too, just his archetype is just becoming more and more valuable because um, you know, I actually made the argument last year when Nikil Alexander walked agent that the combo guard, like the 6'4 to 6'6 combo guard, is more value more valuable or just as valuable as the big three ND wing because of what they can provide as playmakers, as shooters defensively. I just like just the utility of them is just a lot better because of all those three skills. And Burry's is probably aside from Peterson and Wagler as well, like I think he's third up in that regard, but also too, he brings that edge because of the defensive stuff. But yeah, I do want to see the I want to see how his host playmaking lines up. I mean, not just from playing off of Jaden Bradley, but Coa Pete. He um, you know, he had the ball in his hands a lot offensively. They had him doing some stuff too. So uh yeah, I I have Burries in my top 10 as of right now. I think out of all the guys in the top 10, he's the most susceptible to fall out of it. Okay, and not that's not of his byproduct, but it's just more of my, you know, a lot a lot of the thing and it's my process is like sometimes after I watch the film, I just keep contextualizing what they are in the NBA, and that leads to some risers and followers. Like, for example, like Cedric Howard was a guy that probably went from like like once I started watching him about like 20, and then I started contextualizing him and I got him all the way to like 10.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Um but uh but yeah, I I I'm a Burdies fan. I like him, I think he's good.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

So uh some other just like basic, like you know, fun stuff with him. Um so his usage was under 22, but his assist rate was right under like 15. So like you know, he's he's really getting the ball almost as a little bit more than like a role player, but you know, in terms of his you know, turnover, it was also a good five five percentage points lower than that as well. So like you know, he's pretty like effective with it. Um you talked about his his rebounding on defense, it's right under like a 14%. So that's you know, like very good for like you know, a guard. Um, and then you know his hijim pressure was a little over seven, so it's not quite a leak, but it was still still very like in that like really good range. Um, and then just you know, in in general, like he was number five on my composite score ranking, and like I actually lowered him a little bit uh just because and I think also like Wagler was like fourth or something, and so like you know, for both of them, like I like I just lowered them like a little bit just because of like age and things.

Kingston Flemings And Midrange Debates

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Uh number seven, I have Kingston Flemings. Uh, I don't know if anybody wanted to talk about him at all or just keep moving.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Okay, we're Kingston fans over here. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

My only my only note I'll say on um Kingston is uh just monitoring the shooting. Uh again, talk about outcomes of players. Uh I think there's like if he doesn't become a primary, he could become like that Caseon Wallace, Jalen Sucks got he shot like 45% from three on catch and shoot threes this year. Uh he's put in a lot of work to improve his shot. He he kind of brings that edge and tenacity defensively. Um games about speed. And the last thing I'll say is I already told uh I already told my uh my family that uh if king if Kingston Flemings is a Memphis Grizzly, I'm gonna get us all Kingston Fleming Sturgeys. I don't I don't care if there's the S at the end. We're all all five, me, my wife, my sister. We're all gonna get Kingston Fleming Sturgeys.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Very fun. Um, yeah, like and also for him, I mean, like, you know, his assist percentage was like a 33%, which is awesome as well. And then his usage was like 27, which is like just it's just very, very cool. I mean, like compared to like A Cup, who I think has like a 34% usage or something, which is like very high. But you know, did did Kingston's performance in the final four like do y'all think lower him at all in some people's eyes, or are people pretty much already set on him?

SPEAKER_03 39:45

No, I mean, not for me. I mean, I I just don't put a ton of stock into a single game, how someone's performing. I I can't, you know, obviously speak for the masses. Maybe it does sometimes for them, but I've just been I've I've learned enough that you gotta take this whole sample as it is and not overly concern yourself with one good or one bad game. So um, but yeah, Kingston, you know, Parker mentioned the shooting. He's also I I think he's around 84% from the line. Um, that's always a really strong indicator. Like, this guy has good touch and can shoot, and and the mid-range stuff was really impressive. He had a lot of tough shots. So the shot diet, I think, needs to improve a little bit, but like assist percentage, steal percentage. I think just like anecdotally, um, you know, Kelvin Samson trusted him to be the leader and run a Houston team as a freshman. That kind of says something to me because that guy is is tough. And um, when he trusts a young guy, a young guard to be the guy on his team, that that says something to me a little bit. So um he's kind of a throwback guard in some ways. Like he he's when you click on like his Bart Torbett comps, you get um De'Aaron Fox and John Wall. Um, and that kind of just makes sense. He just feels like a 2010 guard prospect. Um, but I I do trust a lot of the shooting projection that that can improve. And then there's a lot to fill out. He's definitely on um combine watch for me, though. I need he's listed 6'4. I just I don't believe it either. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I need to see what the measurements look like. But otherwise, Kingston's he's pretty solid in my book.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah, we'll say um if people like guards that shoot in the mid-range. Uh Kingston is their guy. He is uh he is he he's just like he takes like a lot of shots here. I think like over 41% of all his shots were in the mid-range, but he hit him at like a 44% clip, which is like really impressive. It's really good.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Yeah, and like he's yeah. I I just just real quick, just want to interject for a second. I'm all about shooting threes. There's nothing I love more than a guy who can knock down a billion threes. But at the end of the day, like living and dying by the three is how you get eliminated in the playoffs. At some point when the game slows down, you have to be able to go get a bucket. And Kingston proved it over and over again that he can go get a bucket. Um, and he can do it from a variety of ways. The rim finishing fell off towards the end of the season, wasn't as good. But he is so good at just going full speed, stopping on a dime, leaning back and hitting the little follow away jumper. And like that is just so valuable when the game slows down in a playoff setting.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah, I mean, like, especially it's been proven that in the playoffs when things really get tightened up, being able to score in the mid-range is very, very valuable. Um, because that's where most of the space, you know, then like all of a sudden becomes. Uh, but no, I I think you know, he's he's incredibly fast, awesome, uh, you know, ball handler. Uh, he he has some work to do in terms of like keeping the ball secure on those drives sometimes, you know, it like it kind of gets like you know exposed. Uh and then like he's a good athlete, but like he, I don't know, maybe his pop vertically is not great or something. But like, you know, I feel like you know, when given the chance, you know, he like really like you know throws down dunks, but there's a lot of like harder layup finishes than than like over-the-top finishes, I guess.

Darius Acuff Upside And Team Fit

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Uh I have Darius Acuff next. Uh, I'm not sure where y'all have a cuff.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah, I mean around around the same. Okay. Really? Uh, but yeah. Um my only thing with Acuff, like I'm I'm actually have his scouting report next. I've done my film, I just gotta do the scouting report now. But because I'm trying to contextualize how I think because I kind of like lay it out a certain way. Where I think Darius Acuff is gonna make all-star games, plural. I think he's gonna make all star games. Three I not full three level score because the finishing is still kind of shaky. I think he kind of peels his drives a little bit, which um which I was just like, uh, observation, but and then also too, the the measurements are gonna be big with him, but like the shooting was unbelievable, the play. Making is unbelievable. He can get to his mid-range. It's just my thing with him is I'm not worried about his ceiling. I'm worried about the ceiling that he's going to put on his team because of his defense and his size. That's my only concern with Darius A. Guff. If I was concerned, he could if I was if I knew he could be a passable defender, he would be four or five for me, to be honest. Just because he is one of he put together one of the best offensive seasons of a freshman point guard in a recent memory. For sure. Jip, any thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 44:33

Yeah, I I completely agree with um essentially everything that was said there. I've um I've got a pretty good write-up on something that I'm working on with ACUF. And um I honestly think we could probably record a one-hour podcast on ACUF because there is so much nuance needed when speaking about him as a prospect, um, because there's some very high highs and then you know there's some very low lows, too. And just kind of where you land on that is difficult. And I think that that's what makes this stuff really hard is that Parker's right, he put together one of the most prolific scoring, just straight up offensive output seasons by a guard in a very high major conference. And that can't be discounted, but at the same time, there are some some pretty serious negatives um that ultimately could be a poison pill for him as a prospect. And trying to parse that out and understand exactly where the value is, and like if ultimately he's going to be a max contract player, how do you then construct a roster around it? There's a lot of questions. So I I went fairly in depth, and I'll um, you know, I don't want to turn this into a three-hour podcast. Yeah, sure. So I'll uh I'll I'll just kind of let that you know talk when uh when it comes out.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

I think also, you know, you're you're kind of looking at the Knicks and like with Brunson, and you're kind of thinking, like, okay, is that where like Darius Abecuffs is gonna end up? Where where now it looks like you know he's being attacked so much by the Hawks that like, you know, I mean, like what's like game game three or game or like game four, what they just went at him for like every single play, and just you know, and you know, he just getting busted up. And it's you know, everybody else has to be so much better. It's kind of what like Parker was saying, um, that it it just holds back everything, kind of. Um, you know, he he might be the worst rebinder uh in this entire class, like he was uh 73rd out of like 75. Um, and then for for like composite scores, like he was actually 28th on my list, and he is one of the highest people that I kind of like bumped up just based on because I think he has a lot of appeal and and and and his scoring is such a this weird thing that I think I think he'll be good, but he has to be so damn good to really like to overcompensate like everything else. And so it's gonna be really tricky, man. I don't know. I feel like if the kings draft him, we know exactly how it goes because he will not end well, probably. Um, I have a Daimara next.

Adem Mara And Big Archetypes

SPEAKER_01 46:59

I I know that you y'all are both pretty big fans of him. Um, how high is he on y'all's boards?

unknown 47:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

Eight for eight for you, five for me. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

Um, I'm extremely in. Um I I just think that this is let's I I'll just I'll read you a little something here. I I think that I put it pretty well. I said, Mara's uh impact combined with the size of movement is an extremely rare and valuable archetype among NBA prospects. What sets him apart from other giants who are elite rim protectors and rim finishers is his passing and processing. Mara shows an extreme level of comfort with the ball in his hands and has the ability to extend and capitalize on advantages. It's natural to question the value of a player who may struggle to defend in space and does not shoot threes, and an NBA increasingly focused on pace-to-pace and shooting. But this quote from Memphis Grizzlies GM Zach Kleiman when talking about Zach Eady felt relevant. And this is quoting Zach Kleiman. Zach is incredibly unique, and that you have to deal with him from a size standpoint, from a physicality standpoint, that's something other teams are gonna have to grapple with. And to me, that just felt so per like so on the money with the day, Mara, of like, sure, you can question a lot of things about how he fits in the modern NBA, but at the same time, you're gonna have to figure out how to deal with that guy on the other end, too. So um I'm really in. I just it is so rare for someone with his size to have his level of processing and movement skills that that's just something I'm gonna bet on. And he's a young junior, so there's just a lot to like there for me.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Yeah, I mean, like a few things. Um, like most of the guys that we've talked about have actually had over like a 10, uh, you know, box plus minus. Uh his is over a 12, um, you know, which is I I don't think people understand like how how awesome it is to like be over a 10. Uh maybe because Cameron broke it, but you know, like every but like you know, like you know, him, Keaton Wagner, Brayton Burries, all those guys are all over. Like, I think Fleming's like an 11. So I mean, like, there's so many smart freshmen in this class and just guys in general that I don't think people understand how good this class is gonna be. Maybe not as like top-end, like, you know, stars, but just so much just so just like depth overall, I think. Um, he is very athletic, you know, for for like a guy, a guy of his size, you know, for for I mean, like, I don't people realize how how fluid he's able to like, you know, turn and move and actually like hit screens and do things. Well, I think he's gonna be uh shocking people, probably like like at the combine. My only real issue is you know, he's a little, you know, his his free throw percentage is it's just really bad. Uh, you know, and I would hope it around his age, it would be maybe near like like in the 60s, but it's actually gotten worse, uh, you know, like each year, which is kind of like you know, troubling. And then, you know, for a person that that applies so much pressure on the rim, you know, he's gonna be shooting like a lot of free throws. So I'm just I'm hoping that maybe this is something that that's that that's fixable, and it's not where he's having to be benched because he's such like a late game, like you know problem.

SPEAKER_03 50:11

I I'll throw one more too. The free throw shooting and then also the minutes. He played about 23, 24 minutes a game and was very low minutes at UCLA too. So I don't know if it's a conditioning thing with him or what's going on there, but I think those are the two like massive red flags of that sub-60 free throw shooter and this isn't able to stay on the court for extended minutes. So I think on a per minute impact basis, he's going to be one of the best from this class. But if he can only give you 20 to 25 minutes, then um you probably should bump him down uh a few spots from where I have him at five.

unknown 50:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

Uh and then also uh I think he was the number one in terms of like block rate as well uh in the class at like a 13 or something or whatever, I believe. Uh just I mean, like I think he'll be like a really good, like just overall you know, pick for somebody. Uh I have

Yaxel Lendeborg Age And Floor

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yaxel next. Uh Yaxel's the only person that almost broke my model. Um, he his numbers are so crazy that it it it continuously put him uh at like an 8.4, 8.5. So he was he was always in that like top three, top, top or so range. Um, that I put an actual like hard cap uh for players that are like 22 and older, so so that they couldn't hit certain numbers. Um, because if it was just based on composite, I think he's like third or fourth. But but even then he's seventh. Um, and he just does everything so well that his his age is the biggest issue here. Uh, do I know that y'all both have really fallen in love with him? Do y'all think that there's any concern with his age?

SPEAKER_00 51:42

No. Mainly because not only because like I've noticed a lot of these guys that um these older players that people may point to that kind of fail in the NBA, um, well are the ones that are more like one-trick ponies. They were the go-to guy. But I think the way that he showed that he could scale his role in Michigan, he took and shot more threes. He has the body too. Like he's six. It's an intention at last year's combine. And he's just a guy that's just like he doesn't have many holes in his game. Like the defensive event creation popped more at UAB. Good rebounder. I I would actually even say great rebounder, but he was playing with Moraz Johnson and Ademara. Um has an average three assists a game with a three, three to one assist to turnover ratio. He can finish at the rim. He's a great live triple passer, he's a freight trainer transition. I think the biggest thing too is like I liked watching him in Michigan being like, hey, I'm gonna go guard this guard. I'm gonna go pick up their point guard full court.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

And I think the thing I think it was from our interview with Ricky O'Donnell, uh, where Axel said, I went to Michigan because I needed to play this role to prepare myself for the NBA because I'm not gonna be the guy, I'm gonna be the guy for the guy. Like he said, I'm gonna be playing next to Shea Judas Alexander. I'm not gonna be Shea Judas Alexander, something along those lines. I'm not even paraphrasing there, but like at some point, you just have to point to and also, too. Here's the thing it's NIL prospects are gonna be old, like just get ready for it, you know? That's fair. And like you said, like Yaxel breaks your models because he produced at an outlier rate. Like, this dude, like this is also like consecutive years of this. He was awesome at UAB, and he's awesome still again. Like, I think he's just like a bona fide bet to return top 10 value. I think, and I just think that just and also too, uh, Chuck and Darts, another good uh draft Twitter account. Uh he tweeted out a while back the list of guys, uh, the list of wings. So it's like guys that are like six, nine or shorter with seven two wingspans. And all like the worst players of that group are like Blau Kula Bali and Jarice Walker, who it's like, hey, they're so young they can figure it out. But it's like Pascal Siakam, OG Ananobi, Mikhail Bridges, uh Ruby Hachamura, uh Scotty Barnes, I think falls into that maybe. But um Cedric Howard, like all these guys are like, it's like, hey, you're pretty much getting a playoff rotation player no matter what.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

And Yaksel fits in that too.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

So I mean, like, I and I think his wingspan might be like 7'4 actually.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Uh you're talking about a seven foot, a guy with a sorry to cut you off, but a guy with a seven foot four wingspan that could go and guard guards. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Like that's nutty. And then his his box minus was like a 15, which is which is also crazy. Uh, and then just just I mean, like his his offensive rating was like a almost like a 136. His defensive rating is like a 92 or something, which is just insane that on both ends, these like crazy waves, you know, and then just you know, his his turn percentage is like right around a 10. I don't know. He just he he just does so many things so well, and it's just he's already so so polished. Um I mean at worst I agree that like he'll come in and be a guy that can start, you know, or something, you know. Uh Chip, where do you land in terms of his like overall like, you know, like floor versus ceiling?

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Yeah, I I think real quick, just to touch on the age thing that you guys were talking about. I think that what's important when we talk about older prospects is what did it look like a year ago, two years ago, three years ago? Did they just all of a sudden pop because they're five years older than everyone they're playing against? Or are they just progressively getting better? And I think if you go back and look at even Yaks's first season at UAB, like his profile right there is worth a first round pick. Um and the fact that he essentially played power forward center at UAB, goes to Michigan and proves that he can play on the wing with everybody, um, it's just impressive. And you talk about the anthros, the production. Um there's just not a lot to not a lot of holes to poke in his game. The ceiling maybe not as high as as a few of the other guys that are gonna be picked ahead of him, but uh it'd be pretty stunning if Yaks is not a rotation level player very early on in the NBA.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Yeah, his uh his points per possession are also one of the highest in his class. It's like a 1.17, which you know, for people that don't know, I mean, like over like a 1. You know, you know, 05 is really good. And to have like 1.1 is very good, but like 1.17 is awesome. Uh, you know, Booster's is like a 1.2, obviously, but you know, he just and also like you Parker mentioned uh you know being like older. And so that's kind of why like I don't mind Burry's, you know, like I get it, like you know, he's like an older freshman, but I just don't care as well, you know. Like, you know, he's already doing so many things. I'm I mean like Coward was you know 21 coming in. At a certain point, I think you know, you you just care about their talent, not versus that they're like their age, you know, everything. Um, next I've got Michael Brown. Um, I'm I'm back and forth on him. Like he was so inefficient, it scares me, but he's also so obviously talented. I just don't really know where to like slot him in. Uh, and then I've got Dalen

Why Dalen Swain Keeps Rising

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Swain next. I I know that both y'all are big Swain guys. Yeah, so let's talk about him.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Yeah, for sure. Uh I was ready to talk about Swain. Uh so yeah, with Swain for me, uh a whole thing that I kind of put at first is like, can he scale? But I watched him more. And it's like the movement patterns that he has for a guy his size. Uh, I watched some games earlier in the season and kind of show like, you know, when he's engaged defensively and like he can really like kind of like rack up steals, and he's just a guy that can really kind of start transition offense by himself. Uh great stride length. One thing I really like that he does off drives, if he he knows how to identify his big score tot screening, and yes, the shot it's real, like the shot stuff's real, and I think that's gonna be big for his role. I mean, I think his floor skill to start his career will need to be his defense, but like again, a concept that I'm looking to dive into. It's like, can Dalen Swain scale his game or is he just gonna cook, you know? Um, and also like one thing for me with his driving and his overall, like I do think one thing they need to shore up on his driving, is I think he uses a lot of dribbles to get to his spots, and I don't think you're gonna have that luxury in the NBA. But one thing I kind of watch with him, and I think it's also like a little bit of Grizz tinted colors here, is the Grizzlies love running like their flow action, so a lot, and they're running like a lot of like side pick and roll with their wings running the pick and roll, and that's just a natural role for Dalen Swain, and I think that can open up a lot of different advantages. And again, it's like one of those things where it's like if you're outside the top seven or eight, and you're looking at star bets, like why not Dalen Swain? You know, that that's just kind of how I am there. Uh, I know Chip, he he's beat the drum on it on X. Uh, I'll let him kind of elaborate more on it because I don't want to steal a Sunder, but like this is also an 80% three-point shooter or free throw shooter. Like, the touch is there, you know. I I think there's just something mechanically he has to tweak. Like, I think he can get there. Um, you know, at the very least, if it doesn't shore out, like again, I'm not trying to use like griss comps here, but it's like, hey, if at worst, like, grant, yeah, you don't want to pick this guy in the lottery, but like if he does fall where he's projected to fall, which is around like the 20s, and you're getting like an OMAX prosper level player, like, that's not a bad player to get. That's a good floor for a guy. But I think his upside, like, he can be kind of like uh uh a good secondary that you know can put pressure on the rim, he can get downhill, he's physical and he can bring it on both sides of the floor.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

Yeah, Dalen is um has been one of my guys for uh a couple years at this point. He um I thought was has really been draftable for a couple years now. And um there's like first of all, this is you know, a 6'8 guy with at least a seven foot, maybe gonna measure even a little longer at the combine wingspan. 225, 230 pounds, like right there. That's your prototypical small forward size that you want. So boxes check there. Um then you go and start to kind of dive into some of the tape and what he's able to do with the ball in his hands, and just this kind of battering ram style of getting to where he wants on the floor and being able to finish. He's so low assisted, and there's been tons of studies done in that you go back and look at the guys who translate well to the NBA, especially from a shooting uh percentage perspective. Um, the lower the assisted rate, the more creation burden they took on, the more positive uh translation you have to the NBA. And Dalen Swain is incredibly unassisted. Um shot 64% at the rim, 83 of those attempts were unassisted, shot 47% on non-rim twos on 95 unassisted, and then like 40% of his three-point jumpers were unassisted too. All those just off the chart rates. He creates turnovers, he's awesome at getting into passing lanes, he's like functionally long, very smart reader of the game on both ends, has some real passing ability too. Um incredible rebounder, just everything about this guy screams efficiency and additive to the game. He's not going to do anything, you're not gonna have to cover up for a whole lot of Dalen Swain weaknesses when you're composing a team. And I think because of that, he's going to be incredibly scalable. Now, how high is the ceiling? I don't know. I mean, like, it wouldn't stun me if he hits like uh a few all-star games here and there, but like it would stun me if he's not at least a low-end starter in the NBA, just based off all the evidence that we have. Um, with the one caveat that um at one point in time I would have said all these things about Jared Culver, and I got very burned by Jared Culver, and they're a little bit similar.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:29

Um, I think the thing with sorry to cut you off, but the thing with Culver though, too, is I think that the thing that we probably could have seen is that Culver really couldn't create advantages the way that Swain could. For sure, for sure. If that makes sense. Um, I think another good comp, like the high-end comp where you're talking about like physical tools and stuff, and you're kind of looking at kind of how they were before like coming into the league, it's like it's like an Ananobi outcome on the table for Swain.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

For sure. Yeah, for sure. Like, I even like on a lower end, like PJ Washington, like I just think there's so many guys that he even if he doesn't hit the hundredth percentile outcome, he's going to be a good NBA player. Um, so like, yeah, man, if he's sitting there at 16 with the Grizzly second pick, I am sprinting to the podium. But I just I don't think he's gonna get there. I think he's too good.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

Yeah, I mean, like, I I kind of think the the best version of him, because he looks to be really on ball heavy, uh, and and that might be you know his best role is as the like the the initial person to like you know start like like all the offense. Um so some of his like like the like more like high-end stuff. Uh his like true shooting was like a 64, which is number 11. Um, his his assist rate was like number 22 in this class. His uh rebounding is great. Uh, I think Chip had had said that um he's at like a 14% overall as a rebounder. His defensive rebounding is at like a 21.5, which is just awesome. Um his points per possession is like a 1.1, which is great. His his box less money is right under a 10 at like a 9.9. His rim pressure is like a 9. I mean, it just just it goes on and on and on. Like like he's so good as like a downhill guy, and he's able to really like use his length and his size to really like you know low past uh guards. So it it just and then there's like a bigger person on him, you know, he's he's able to like use his his his ball handling is like super crafty. Um it's just you know, he doesn't shoot a lot of threes. Um, he he tends to overplay passes sometimes, like and he'll you know, causally like you know, bad, you know, like turnovers on that side of the ball. So I don't know. It's like uh do y'all think he's capable of playing most of his stuff off the ball, or is he gonna be at his best as being like maybe that like one or like that number two guy?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:57

I I think he's incredibly scalable. I think he's a very smart basketball player. And if he has to figure out how to play off the ball, which he did quite a bit uh before he got to Texas, um, I don't think it's gonna be a problem. I think he's a really smart cutter. Um, so I think that he's going to figure out even if he's not a star. So yeah, he's he's just a guy that I'm gonna bet on, and he's gonna be able to scale up or down as needed in the team context.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Yeah, his uh rim protection's not that great right now. Um, but you you talked about his his ability to you know create an offense. His sha dependency is one of the best in the class, and that's under like a 30. So like it's like a 29%, which is just just awesome good. I mean, like Bennett starts as like a 32 or something or whatever. So, like, you know, he's his ability to to create for himself is such like this like immediate like ability for him, you know, which is really cool. I know that uh Parker has to go here soon. Um is there anybody else specifically on your mind, Parker, that you kind of want to talk about? Um just keep going down your board and then we'll I'll see if I'll see if there's someone there. All right, so after Dalen Swain, I have. Morez Johnson, who I love. We have Alan Graves after that. I have uh Hans Steinbach next, which I think he's like right at the end of my like uh lottery. I think it's like 15 or 16 at this point. Um, I have Phylon after that at 17. Um uh Cameron Carr at 18, who's been kind of tricky for me because he's another guy that uh score-wise, he was awesome. Like he is number five overall. But him being so small gives me so much pause for him because like obviously he plays hard on defense and rebounds and he's an awesome at scoring and da-da-da-da. But I've seen so many plays where he just gets just killed on screens and in the lane, you're like, you know, he's getting he's getting just dropped on. I'm just I don't know how much he can scale uh when his size is such this like big like hindrance.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Yeah, for sure. Um, I guess like quick notes from some of the guys that you mentioned. Um, I I really like Hans Steinbach. I my only like I think he's the probably the best rebounding prospect of any non-7 player since like Kevin Love. Like he's awesome, but I do think that he has a lot of the questions that you know um you really kind of put a cap on your ceiling if you make him your five, but also at the same time, I'm not sure how well he could play the four. Um, but I think he has the the rebounding technique, the screening technique, just the overall feel for the game, where I'll bet on him and the production like um outside of NCAA, like I just would bet on that. Uh, I guess the guy I'll talk about is Carr. Because I actually haven't watched a lot of carr recently. I did a lot of my watches on him at the beginning of the season. Um because I actually really loved uh coming into the season, I loved uh Tunde Yesufu. So uh that's why I watched a lot of him. But no, I think with Carr, it's fascinating because the thing that I noticed with him is he can make contested shots, and I think that matters to a certain degree. Great athlete, he can run the floor, he's a good cut cut, like baseline cutter, he's a guy you can just kind of throw it up to and he'll go get it. He has good elevation on his jump shot. Um, he has decent wiggle, but like I will say the thing defensively, he's a tricky eval because you know, 7-2, 7-3 wingspan. Yeah, he's a great shot blocker for a wing. But like you said, like that on ball, I I have in my notes here that he kind of has to work on kind of guarding his yard a little bit. Um, he kind of counts on using his athleticism and length to reduce the mark or to enhance the margins of error when drivers get the step on him. Uh, I think he can get pushed off his spots a little bit because of his frame. I still have him in the top 20 just because the different tools to bet on. Um I think he's a I think he's a smart player. The handle's solid, at least like in a T uh tertiary role. So like I'm willing to bet on him. Um, I will say it kind of scares me because like you said earlier in the show about age, he is a guy that kind of just like he transferred and popped off. So it's like, okay, was this you know Chip's a Tennessee guy? So was this just a thing that Brick Barnes didn't know what he had? Or did he just kind of come out of nowhere? Like, this is kind of one of those developments where you have to kind of wonder. I think I will say one more thing I like about him offensively that kind of scales well to being an off-ball player, is he just flies around screens and handoffs, and that matters when kind of generating separation against a guy that like if you build that reputation, if he builds like a uh reputation of being like a 38 to 40, 40% three-point shooter, and teams are kind of like sticking to him. If he's flying around those screens, that's gonna matter when generating separation because it a lot it's gonna make it even easier on your bigs when they're setting screens. So um, yeah, tricky eval, but like he stacks a lot of skills that I like.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

Yeah, I'm uh I have not done a full-on deep dive on bar yet. Um, there's a lot to like in the profile, but the frame and just how thin he is does scare me just because of how difficult the NBA is. Um, and on the flip side of that, I did want to give a little love to Alan Graves, who reminds me so much of like a modern-day Boris D out of just like I am bigger and smarter than you. And he's kind of like discount Cam Boozer in some ways, where just like you're gonna be able to get a lot of the stuff Cam gives you, but you're gonna get that in the middle of the first round. And uh I just love watching that guy play basketball, man. He he was essentially forced to play center this year at Santa Clara. Um, and I don't ultimately think that he's going to be a center in the NBA, he's more of a forward. Um, but if that jump shot comes along, uh this is gonna be, I think, a pretty damn special prospect. Um there's just not a lot of holes in his game. Um, I think he's gotta work on his body a little bit, and then there's questions about some of the jump shot stuff, but the passing, the rebounding, the defensive instincts. He's got some of the best hands in this entire class. His ability to just carve out space around the basket and just basically import impose his will is just so awesome to watch, man. So I'm glad you have Graves this high.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

Yeah, uh, just kind of talking about like your graves a little bit there. I mean, like his his impact with with his stocks is stupid. Like his uh his bot percentage and his still percentage are both ranked uh seventh, you know. Uh like he has a a 5% in both. He has really good size and length, you know. His I I think he was like a late, a late bloomer in terms of his of his size. I think he grew up playing guard or something or whatever, and then eventually, you know, he he got too tall for that. Uh, but just everything he does is just super efficient, man. Like, like, like there's nothing pretty about about how he does it, but it's pretty in terms of like how he gets it done, I guess. You know, it's just like it's just he's gonna make somebody a lot of money when they get him at like 24 or something, you know. It's crazy. Uh talking about carr a little bit there. Um, he's somebody that is very strange because he has his tongues, he's got like 43, but he doesn't have a lot of like pressure on the rim. It's very, very strange. So so he's very much this guy that flies around, shoots a lot of threes, but he doesn't really uh you know attack that often. Um he's also I don't trust him a lot with the ball. I think his uh turmer like rate was like over like a 17. So he he's gonna be really so he'll probably play a guard role, but like you don't really want him to be the person that is gonna have to like you know handle it like in spaces and stuff and like you know like it passed out of it and everything. So yeah, he he's very, very strange. I don't I'm not really sure what where to place him.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:54

Then I have I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:56

Yeah, keep going because I want to end on I want to end on a player that I love.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

So I want to see what we

Favorites In The Late First

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

can do. Uh so after that, um I have uh Sturts uh at 19 here. I've got a Corey at 20. Uh I got uh Christian Anderson at 21. Uh Koa Pete is at 22. Um I got Amari Allen at 23. Okay, I love Amari Allen. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

I thought that's where you were gonna stop.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

Yeah, that works out perfectly because I know I know Chip. There's a there's a guy in that range that Chip adores. So it works out where we can each kind of have a guy that we uh we close on that we uh are fans of. But no, um big Amari Allen guy. Um the thing that I just kind of really like with his game, I think the thing that kind of caught my eye immediately is one, like Nate Oates, like just trusting him with minutes early. Um I think a big reason was like the rebounding, the ability to defend multiple positions, um, and um just his size as well. If if I'm like kind of like rambling when I'm when I'm talking, I'm trying to just put together like a BART query to see what I come up with. Okay, this is a this is a pretty good BART query, but um the guys that were uh 6'5 or taller that had defensive rebounding percentages greater than 15, assist percentages greater than or equal to 15, assisted turnover ratio of at least two, and each of block and steal rates great uh two or better as underclassmen. Cooper Flag, Franz Vodner, Kyle Anderson, and Amari Allen. Um I but I will say the box plus minus with those other three are double digits, and Amari Allen's only like 6.8. So like, but I think the thing with Amari that's that kind of holds him back is he's a subpar finisher and a subpar three-point shooter, which like he has to polish that up. But like this is a guy that he's like a real like 6'8 secondary ball handler. I really liked what he showed as a ball handler and a playmaker when it was just phylon and and him without Aiden Holloway. Um great live dribble passer and pedestrian passer. He loves going to his left hand a lot for a guy that is right-handed. Um, yeah, but yeah, adds value in the possessions game, um, can hand dribble pass and shoot, won't kill you defensively. Um and we're gonna talk about just his age and his size, and also to a guy like I want to say his RCSI was like 80, so it's not like he was like this like McDonald's all-American or anything. So it's like, hey, who knows what else he has. But you know, if we're talking about like, you know, the the this depth, the depth of this class is thinning out, you know, there's no longer the Braylon Mullins, Thomas Hawk, or Pasha Nagangba or Mo Krievas, like um a lot of players that probably would have been in the top 20. Like, if we're talking about guys that I'm willing to bet on in the top 20, top 25, Amari Allen's right there because of the the intersection of size and skill. I think that's very important. Um, obviously, like the floor gets lowered if the shooting and finishing aren't there, but like that's also on me to kind of research like his priors to see if that's something that's like a real concern. Or again, like what Chip said earlier in the pod when it came to process, like is it just an uh one-year sample, or is this like a real like concern?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:33

All right, if y'all will let me isolation real quick. I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about Bennett Sturz. I'll I'll keep it quick. I I know that we've we've talked a lot, um, but I I just this is one of my favorite guys in the entire class. I loved him last year, Drake. Um, I think Ben McCollum uh should should, I don't know, send Bennett Sturz a really nice edible arrangement every year on his birthday or something because he did a really nice job helping him get that Iowa job. Um you know the the system that Ben that McCollum runs there with Sturz is incredibly unique in the sense that it's kind of like high school-ish where it's very slowed down, it's very run your sets, be patient, um, pass up good shots for great shots. And really, Bennett Sturz was the engine of all of that stuff. He had one of the most efficient scoring and offensive systems of seasons this year, and he did it without having to get out in transition and get a whole lot of easy buckets or easy hit ahead assists or stuff like that. All of his stuff is really earned from a lot of hard work uh that he puts in in half-court offenses. And again, going back to kind of the high school um um analog here, you know, I you go watch high school basketball, especially if there's one awesome score, the the defensive attention that that guy gets is is incredible, right? Because he's just a different level from everyone else on the floor. Guys are sending two and three players at him at all times just to make someone else beat him. And that's essentially what Sturge has had to do the last two seasons, where he is the focal point every single time he goes out on the floor and he's just able to be incredibly efficient and understand his athletic limitations and weaponize those to continuously create advantages, whether that's off you know, quick pick and roll actions, some handoff stuff, some quick give and goes, he is just so smart and so patient and will just wait for a defense to make a subtle mistake and he's able to capitalize on it. I think he's a pretty special shooter, too. Um like the shot making stuff at all three levels is elite. Um the passing, I think, is very elite. Like I think that even if he doesn't hit um like starter level outcomes that we're looking at like a Ty Jerome, Cam Spencer, Andrew Nimhard.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:59

Like some of these, like yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:01

Some of these like below the rim type guys who have been able to have a ton of success at the NBA level um at varying degrees as well. So uh I just I really value um what he brings um as a guy who can scale up on ball, you can run everything through him, or if you want him to go be a floor spacer and attack closeouts and be a secondary creator, I think he can just as easily do all that stuff. So um this is a guy that'll be top 10 for me in this class. Uh he's not gonna be drafted that high, I don't think, but um I I uh I really, really like Bennett Starts and think he's gonna be a good NBA player for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:42

Man, that's like a a big take there, man. Top 10. Um Yeah, I really like him. So like with Starts, he's kind of one of those guys that I'm waiting for for the combine stuff because if he is his size range around that like 6'4, 6'5, I think that'll really allow him to play off the ball as well more. Um, my only real issues is he's not a good rebounder. Uh, you know, and so and so he's gonna have to do so much more uh to really like you know help his case. You know, like I he's an in terms of shooting, like his his like overall like volume ability is is amazing. Like, you know, his his ability to just get shots up and be able to actually you know create space for himself is great. Uh he's incredibly efficient. So like you know, I like I don't think he's gonna be doing really just you know outlandish things on the ball, off the ball. I think all that is really good. It's just really gonna come down to his ability to be able to to to cover guys in that one-two range and being able to like really just overall, you know, be able to you know move around screens and like through people and being able to talk add extra possessions here and there. Um, but the there's a reason he couldn't be like a six-man or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:51

Yeah, 100%. 11 dunks too. Yeah, yeah, he did. He did.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

Yeah, 11 dunks.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:56

They don't run in transition. He dunked 11 times.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:58

They did not run. Uh it's quickly here, like, where do you both have um Kareem Lopez? Like, I've been trying to like, you know, place him, and it's hard to watch games over there, and just a lot of the advanced data I don't have. I watched some of his breakdowns today, and I don't know. I I don't know what to do with him because he doesn't have a left hand at all. Uh, and that that worries me that if immediately people will just, you know, like you play that side on him. His defense is is really like hit or miss. Um, but then he'll make really great plays in transition, and his shot's very like it's there and then it's not there. I just I don't know where to place him right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:37

Yeah, text uh reach that reach back out to me at the end of the week. I'm on my Kareem Lopez party right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:42

So all right, cool. Uh well uh and I I I'm assuming that both of you guys have to go. It's kind of late now.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

I was gonna say TBD on Kareem Lopez. Yeah, let me uh let me get back to you on that one. I've I've done a little bit, but I'm I'm not ready to give a full take yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

Gotcha. After him, I've got uh Onyenzo uh out of Virginia, who I think is gonna be awesome. Uh Tyler Tayner, I've got there at like 26. Uh Isaiah Evans at 27, uh Jaden Quaitens at 28, because he's another player that I don't know where to place at this current point. Uh and then I've got Zuby Edge of four, and then Baba Miller actually at 30, which it was kind of shocking to me. Like I just kept, you know, I guess technically with you know Mullins going back and and like Hall going back, you know, like you know, like certain guys got like you know moved up here or whatever, but still I I think that that might be higher than what like a lot of these you know mocks having

Combine Risers And Workout Winners

SPEAKER_01 1:22:37

everything. So is there anybody that y'all think will really fly up boards once all this stuff really likes like like you know, with all the um the like the I can't talk, sorry, with the combine and the draft interviews and all of the like you know team workouts?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:52

I'm gonna go ahead and just say Billy Richmond at Arkansas. Okay, all right. I think he's gonna be the guy because I think he's a solid, like can I not gonna call him like a full-blown playmaker, but I think he can at least be a good connector. Um again with the where the NBA is going, like that he's a guy that can defend with high pressure points. He's gonna make um he's gonna be physical defensively, could be to a fault at times, but like he's gonna be physical defensively. He's long, he's it's like 6'6. Um, he doesn't really have like much more to fill out. He's gonna make eye-popping plays with his athleticism. It's just like with him, it's everything but the shot. Yeah. Like if the shot like I want to say uh John Calperry said on Barstool Live that if he feels that Billy Richmond and Malik Thomas are first round picks, he's gonna tell them to stay in the draft. Um and that makes sense. Um But I could I if I like if I were a team in like the in like the 20s, like I just specifically like looking looking at the board right now. Like for example, example, like if I was like New York or Denver, I'd be like, okay, we want to pick you. Like you may get PTing or um, like if you're not getting playing time with us on the main roster, we're sending you to the G League to shoot five or six threes a game just to get you comfortable and get you ready for year two. But like we will take you with a first round pick. Um, and then you he would then get to play like high leverage basketball, like rather immediately. Um but yeah, I think Billy Richmond is gonna be, especially too if he if he scrimmages, yeah. He has a chance to make some like eye-popping stuff, like that's gonna and also too, like he's a caliper kid as well. So like that's that's my guy. Like, I think he's gonna rise up the boards. And I gotta currently have him after some of these guys have kind of dropped off. I have him at 31. So, I mean, not much more in my opinion. I mean, uh well, technically frankly, if if you just assume Flory Badunga is going back to school, he's 30 for me. Gotcha. Uh, Chip, what about you?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:05

Uh, I'm gonna first of all, Billy's awesome. Like, really love that guy. Um, but my guy's gonna be Abuka Akori from Stanford. Um, and I I think that Abuka Akore is closer to that group of Kingston, Michael, uh Burries, Akuff, all those guys that he is being considered by the consensus right now. Like, I would just tell you that right now I would take Abuka Akore over Darius Acuff. Um and I think that as the process continues to play out, pending measurements, there's a chance that he is rather small, yeah, uh, but looks to have a good wingspan. Everything else, uh, the offensive profile, what he did as a freshman on a pretty mediocre Stanford team wasn't incredible. And um that that's a guy that I'm very, very in on.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:54

Man, I feel like if you could mix Billy Richman and Malik Thomas, that would be like such an insane player because they it kind of like had had these gaps, and then both of them kind of fill each other because you know, Richmond uh is an awesome athlete. You know, he's good at defense, he's he's got great size, he just does not shoot well. And then Malik Thomas is exactly like just like opposite, where he's a great shooter. He he has all these metrics, but he just is not a great athlete. He's not good at like really like you know going to the rim like and finishing and stuff. But so both of them I you know have obvious things to like do and could easily go 35 or or 25, you know. Um, I think Bruce Thornton is a guy that could really come in to like you know hit like certain like you know, workouts. Um, he's just a really smart guard, he's like 6'4, and he just scores at like all the levels. Uh I just he he's crazy efficient. I just I think that like if you want a person that can come in and just really like be like a pro, I just I I see him just like going somewhere like it's sticking. I don't know. All right, sorry guys, that was kind of like uh a long one there. Um, but a lot of fun stuff. Uh hopefully we can hook up again at some point uh after the combine and things start start happening here and there. I'm I'm really excited to to get to to you know May 10th uh and finally find out exactly where you know guys you know we'll be picking. Um if the Grizzlies only have pick six and and pick

Dream Grizzlies Draft Outcomes

SPEAKER_01 1:27:17

16. So just say that there's no moving up or anything. Um if they get these two players, uh, you'll be happy. So who are those two players that you would be very ecstatic if they you know like basically like are able to get at six and at sixteen?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:32

For me, it's Keaton Waggler and Dalen Swain. That but I would also say like a good combo too would be Waggler and Graves.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:43

Uh Chip. Uh my answer is the exact same. Uh I think that Waggler is probably my favorite of that group at at six. And then any sort of Graves, Swain, Mara or Yaks, if those guys fell. Um Something like that would be a pretty ideal scenario.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:03

Yeah, no, I I think we're we're all in like a chord there. Uh, because uh it if if if you told me that they could get Burries, Kingston, or Waggler at six, and then it's Swain or Graves or like or Hans, you know, or just one of those guys there, I would be just very, very happy about that. You know, like I think I texted Chip that I would have no problem if your if your future would be like, you know, uh, you know, Coward, Swain, and like Burries or or Kingston, because all those guys can just do both ways and all of them play defense, all of them have like you know, good size, all of them play on the ball and then like off the ball as well. I think there just would be some really cool um just you know ability with like moving in and out of things, and this would be a lot of you know fun. Um, well, guys, if if y'all enjoyed uh all this talk, uh you can go check out Chip uh on X, which I hate saying X, but you know, I I guess it's you know at this point it's not Twitter anymore, um, at Chip Williams Jr. Uh and then with Mr. Parker, uh, you can go to uh substackoletis uh to get all of his thoughts on things. He's gonna have a bunch of stuff coming out as he's able to do a lot of like really fun um you know videos in terms of with like player breakdowns, and you can also follow him at Pacaflacca. Uh guys, thank you so much. Um, hopefully we can you know hook up a few a few more times. Uh maybe me and Chip are able to talk uh actually like in Vegas at some point. So that would be like really cool as well. Uh guys, y'all have a good night, uh, and uh, you know, keep watching basketball. All right, man. Thank you. All right, guys. I've been doing this for 10 years. This is he's two years away from being two years away, and then we'll see.