SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Summit Church Podcast.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us as we share weekly sermons and teachings from Summit Church in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
SPEAKER_00: Our prayer is that today's message encourages your faith and helps you grow in your relationship with Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Check out our website at summitchurchtn.com.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, and we pray this message encourages you today.
SPEAKER_03: Who here has been to the cross and encountered the blood of Jesus and been washed from your sins, delivered from every transgression, all shame and all guilt.
SPEAKER_03: We laid it at the foot of the cross, and Jesus covered it in his blood.
SPEAKER_03: What made it work is he was God most high, who is worthy of honor and glory and praise.
SPEAKER_03: The one who spoke the universe into existence, the one who will come back to judge the righteous and the others, and that God and Jesus Christ poured out his blood for us that we might be redeemed and freed from sin.
SPEAKER_03: So just take a few more moments and just in your own words say thank you, God.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Lord, for pouring out your blood for me.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Lord, for pouring out the blood for the person next to me.
SPEAKER_03: That we could all be free from sin and death and guilt and shame.
SPEAKER_03: That we could all be made alive together through Christ Jesus our Lord, through the blood of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.
SPEAKER_03: Lord, we magnify you and we glorify you and we bless you and we bless your name because there is no better place to be at the foot of the cross.
SPEAKER_03: There is no better place than to be in the grace and the mercy of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_03: And Lord, we glorify you and magnify you and bless your name.
SPEAKER_03: In Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_03: Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_03: You can be seated if you like.
SPEAKER_03: Happy Wednesday to you.
SPEAKER_03: It's good to see you this evening.
SPEAKER_03: See if I can open a water with one hand and a half here.
SPEAKER_03: There we go.
SPEAKER_03: I'll stride.
SPEAKER_03: All right.
SPEAKER_03: Fortunately, that won't show up on the podcast.
SPEAKER_03: So for those on the podcast, I just spilled some water on myself.
SPEAKER_03: So apparently I'm not that coordinated.
SPEAKER_03: Alright, so Ezekiel 35.
SPEAKER_03: We're going to take a look into the Word of God.
SPEAKER_03: And there is not a more blessed place to be than when you're diving into the Almighty Word of God and by the power of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_03: Not because I'm teaching, but because we're studying the inspired word of God in Ezekiel.
SPEAKER_03: And I'm going to continue to use the Lexum English Bible, which I realize is not a popular translation, but I think they do a really nice job on outlining and using the language in Ezekiel in a way that reads particular theological systems in the least, right?
SPEAKER_03: Trying to preserve the original language in kind of a neutral way.
SPEAKER_03: And so that that's the reason why I kind of use it.
SPEAKER_03: And so we're continuing tonight in our study of Ezekiel.
SPEAKER_03: And in Ezekiel 34, right, we if you remember, we talked about, right, that God was giving a promise to the children of Israel, to the people of Israel, that was based on his covenant promises to him, and uh based on um his passion and his zeal for the house of Israel, and that it was tied to the land and fulfilling that.
SPEAKER_03: And you also notice in that chapter that he also talked that Ezekiel talked about, right, that removing the false shepherds, removing those that were being self-dealing and tending to oneself and moving forward, and that God himself would be Israel's shepherd, and he would be Israel's caretaker and provider because of the failure of those who had been in charge but not done their duty well.
SPEAKER_03: And so Ezekiel 35 is going to continue in that stream of talking about the necessity to remove evil so that good may flourish.
SPEAKER_03: And so when we start talking about eschatology and we start talking about the view of the what has been, what is, and what will be, one of the things in modern Christianity, a lot of times, it used to be, right, that that it was everybody preached hellfire and brimstone.
SPEAKER_03: If you're as old as I am or older, right?
SPEAKER_03: It used to be, you know, you were going to preach hell hotter and get people to the altar.
SPEAKER_03: And then we kind of had a reaction against that, and we started emphasize de-emphasizing that and start emphasizing the promises and the blessings of God, and that was a needed and necessary correction.
SPEAKER_03: But then we started de-emphasizing the need to stand against evil and the need to stand against the things of the evil one, and started making it only about right, the the promise and the blessing, the hope.
SPEAKER_03: And again, that's necessary and that's good.
SPEAKER_03: But when you take a look at biblical prophecy, there is wonderful, fabulous, fantastic promises of blessing and promise and hope, but it's always, especially in Old Testament prophecy, very often it's paired with the removal and the judgment of evil.
SPEAKER_03: So a lot of times in the Old Testament, especially in prophecy, right, one of the things that we see is we find the answer to what do we do with the problem of evil in a world that God created.
SPEAKER_03: Has anybody ever had somebody ask them, you know, if God created the world, then how come there's sin and sickness and death, right?
SPEAKER_03: And so that's that's really a central problem in the history of mankind is how do we respond to evil and how does God respond to evil?
SPEAKER_03: And so in books like Ezekiel, what you'll see in chapter 35 and chapter 36, which we're not going to get into 36 tonight, um, is that they are parallel chapters.
SPEAKER_03: Actually, if you even the verse structure is that they are they are related to each other.
SPEAKER_03: And so these are these are meant to be taken as a piece.
SPEAKER_03: 35 and 36 are meant to be uh taken as a single kind of reading, a single kind of piece.
SPEAKER_03: So we'll set the premise up tonight with 35, and then next week we will we'll get to the payoff in 36.
SPEAKER_03: And so the um the structure of the chapters, especially in the Hebrews, they use the same rhythms because Ezekiel did a lot of his stuff musically or poetically, and so you even had the same beats and the same rhythms in the two chapters.
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of stuff I could show you that I'm you know endlessly fascinated with that.
SPEAKER_03: I was reading about in the resources, but as I was praying, I got the sense that Holy Spirit was telling me, you're going to bore them to tears.
SPEAKER_03: So I'm not going to do that.
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but the if anybody wants to come and have that conversation, I'm delighted to bore you in tears uh privately.
SPEAKER_03: Um so the the the the but the reality is is even the the the structure of 35 and 36 are very, very similar to to tie these two together.
SPEAKER_03: And so we're gonna be talking about Mount Seir or Edom, right?
SPEAKER_03: And these folks were the descendants of Esau, right?
SPEAKER_03: You remember the story of Jacob and Esau, right?
SPEAKER_03: We we we talked about this in Romans, right?
SPEAKER_03: Jacob I loved, Esau I hated, right?
SPEAKER_03: They were brothers.
SPEAKER_03: Esau, right, despised his birthright, sold it for a mess of pottage of beans or lentils or whatever.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and um and Jacob was the one, the child of promise who received the blessings and the promise of God.
SPEAKER_03: But Esau was also taken care of by God, and his land, Edom, was, and Mount Seir, which is is the symbol of Edom, right, was given to Esau by God.
SPEAKER_03: So you see this pattern that even though one may be favored, right?
SPEAKER_03: So again, you see with with um uh Ishmael, right, being driven out, and and and then God coming in and still making a covenant and taking care of him, even though he wasn't the favored one or the anointed one.
SPEAKER_03: And again, Esau, the Edomites, were given a land um south of the Dead Sea and around that area.
SPEAKER_03: And so they had a land that was appointed by God.
SPEAKER_03: And I think to understand God's judgment on Edom in uh in Mount Seir in verse 35, we have to understand that they had a place and a portion set by God, but for them it was not good enough.
SPEAKER_03: That they had been taken care of by God back in Genesis, and they had a place in God's plan, but it wasn't what they wanted, and so they wanted to subvert God's plan and take the promised land from the children of Israel, from the children of Jacob, and they were jealous and they were envious and they were prideful, and they rebelled against the provision and the blessing that God had for them.
SPEAKER_03: So when we talk about Edom, we're not just talking about a particular people.
SPEAKER_03: When we're talking about Mount Seir, we're not just talking about a particular mount, we're also talking about a type of people who have been blessed by God and as God has a plan for, but they're not happy and they want to subvert or they want to overthrow the plan of God.
SPEAKER_03: And so when we take a look at this, what we're going to see again in history, but also in types and shadows, are the kinds of things that will take a people that God has provision for and God has a blessing for, but the things that lead them away from that we can also find in the Edomites in the way that they approach things.
SPEAKER_03: And so starting in verse 35 with verse 1, and the word of Yahweh came to me saying, Son of man, set your face against the mountain of Seir and prophesy against it.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: Now, just to show you the parallelism, right?
SPEAKER_03: Verse thir chapter 36, verse 1, and you, son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel, so you must say, right?
SPEAKER_03: So again, there's that parallel.
SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to do that all the way through, but I just wanted to show you that.
SPEAKER_03: So, son of man, set your face against the mountain of Seir and prophesy against it, and you must say to it, Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Look, I am against you, Mountain of Seir, and I will stretch out my hand against you, and I will make you a desolation and a wasteland.
SPEAKER_03: Your cities I will make ruins ruins, and you will be a desolation, and you will know that I am Yahweh.
SPEAKER_03: Because there has been to you an ancient hostility, and you have handed over the Israelites to the power of the sword at the time of their disaster, at the time of their final punishment.
SPEAKER_03: Therefore, as I live, declares the Lord Yahweh, certainly to blood guilt I will prepare you, and blood will pursue.
SPEAKER_03: Since you did not hate blood, it will pursue you.
SPEAKER_03: So again, this is a pretty strong opening paragraph, right?
SPEAKER_03: And so when when we take a look at this, the conditions of judgment that God said that He Himself would take his hand against Mount Seir.
SPEAKER_03: Now, the the thing is that if you're in grace, if you're saved, this in no way applies to you.
SPEAKER_03: God's hand will never be against you in this way if you're under the blood of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_03: And so every time we talk about the judgments of God, we have to remember that judgments are only against those who are in open, consistent, persistent rebellion against God, and especially those who are in idolatry.
SPEAKER_03: And so that is one of the features of the Edomites and those from Mount Seir is that they were idolaters.
SPEAKER_03: They, even though their land had been appointed to them and given to them by Yahweh, by God the Father, they were in rebellion and they served other gods.
SPEAKER_03: And so the other thing is that it says that they have been to you an ancient hostility, and you have handed over the Israelites to the power of the sword at the time of their disaster, at the time of their final punishment.
SPEAKER_03: Now, there's a couple of themes in here, right?
SPEAKER_03: Is God is saying that even if I bring judgment on somebody, right, you can't participate in it.
SPEAKER_03: Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.
SPEAKER_03: I will repay.
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever heard somebody say joking?
SPEAKER_03: It's a joke.
SPEAKER_03: I'm not criticizing people.
SPEAKER_03: I know vengeance is God, but but God, can I help?
SPEAKER_03: The answer is no.
SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so the um thank you for playing.
SPEAKER_03: Please try again.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so the the the thing is, is that even though God was judging Israel, you understand that God still had an interest in his covenant people.
SPEAKER_03: He could discipline them, but the people of the world could not.
SPEAKER_03: The people around them could not.
SPEAKER_03: The people could not take that.
SPEAKER_03: And I think that when we talk about our walk with the Lord, and we see people who fall into sin and are judged by God and are outed by God, who, even if they're caught in being a false prophet or a false shepherd, as we talked about in the last couple of chapters, right?
SPEAKER_03: We still have to be careful to know that God still loves that person and God is still working for their good in the long term to try to bring them to repentance and try to bring them back to a place of serving God.
SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we we tend to see, especially if you're on social media, is somebody falls and then you have people who call themselves Christian like celebrate that, right?
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is, is yes, it's okay to celebrate that a lie has been exposed or evil has been exposed or immorality has been stopped.
SPEAKER_03: You can celebrate that part, but you cannot celebrate the fall of someone who at one time served God and loved God and and and pursued them with all of their heart.
SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we can learn from the Edomites, right, is that one of the ways that we get led away and into the the judgment of God and separated from God is celebrating the the pain, the suffering, the downfall of somebody.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: In the social media age, right, you we see a lot of that.
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is, and we saw it beforehand, we're just now have more.
SPEAKER_03: All social media really did was just accelerate our awareness of what was going on anyway.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so the the thing is is that one of the ways that the enemy traps us into coming under judgment is when we start to to judge others and say, oh, it's a good thing that they're suffering.
SPEAKER_03: It's a good thing that they're they're being destroyed.
SPEAKER_03: Now, again, that doesn't mean that we can't be for stopping evil or putting people in prison when they commit murder and all that kind of stuff, right?
SPEAKER_03: But the the thing is that there cannot be that uh celebration and that hostility um to the especially to those who who have named the name of Christ.
SPEAKER_03: And the other thing is is that um one of the things that you tend to see, have you ever noticed that when people start going through a rough time that there are people who come up and make the time harder, more difficult?
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: You know, where you're going through and you get Job's comforters and thought, oh, you're going, you know, your your business is, you know, you're you're having to declare bankruptcy.
SPEAKER_03: I thought God loved you.
SPEAKER_03: I thought you were in the provision of God, right?
SPEAKER_03: And and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is, is that one of the things that we we tend to see in people who are alienated from God is there are people out there who will try to drag you down.
SPEAKER_03: If you're going through a hard time, if you're going through suffering, if you're going through um uh one of the things that that always amazes me, because again, doing what I do, I've been in a lot of ICUs and I've been through a lot of funerals, and 95% of people there are just there to love on people and support them and love them to the best of their ability and help them through hard times.
SPEAKER_03: But then there's always that 2%.
SPEAKER_03: Now it doesn't add up to 100 because the 3% that are there from some other reason, but we're not gonna go into that.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so, but there's always have you ever been to a funeral and somebody started talking to the person who lost their husband or their wife or their child, and you're like going, no.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: If you've ever been in ministry, um and again, it's it's it's one of those things where sometimes it's just people being people and sharing their grief, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_03: But sometimes you can tell the people got this little twinkle in their eye, they're like, I'm gonna see what I can say and get away with.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: And so the thing is, is that one of the things a lot of times we as Christians and people in the world say, oh, it looks like people are getting away with everything.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: So if some if you've been through a hard time and somebody's come in and tried to make it worse, and you don't, you think, you know, it just doesn't look like they're having any bad effect from that, right?
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever seen that where you've you've encountered something, somebody's done something evil, mean, right?
SPEAKER_03: You knew it was intentional, and you're like, they seem to be getting away with it.
SPEAKER_03: What God is telling us is no, I keep track, I take names, there is a book of life, and there's going to be a last day judgment.
SPEAKER_03: And the reason why God says that we are freed from being vengeful, we are free from keeping track, we are free from holding grudges.
SPEAKER_03: It's okay to forgive and to release, is because anything that needs to be judged and taken care of, He will take care of that for us.
SPEAKER_03: Because in our limitation, in our humanness, to hold on to that judgment, that vengefulness, that bitterness, that desire to make things worse for somebody else because they made things worse for us, right?
SPEAKER_03: It becomes bitterness to us and it becomes poison.
SPEAKER_03: I think it's attributed to Winston Churchill, who said, bitterness is like pour pouring a cup of poison for your enemy and then drinking it yourself.
SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we see is we can be sure that the scales will be righted and that all everything will be repaid.
SPEAKER_03: Jesus died on the cross, so if the person who hurt us puts that sin under the blood and repents to Jesus, and and Jesus took the pain for that, the scales are still balanced, right?
SPEAKER_03: The debt has still been paid.
SPEAKER_03: If they don't, though, there is a judgment day.
SPEAKER_03: And so we are freed from trying to make everything balance, and we're freed from trying to make the judgment balance because God shows us, even going back to Genesis, right?
SPEAKER_03: So we're we're talking over a thousand years later, in Ezekiel 35, he is saying, I I know when I look back to this thousand-year-old history, and I've been keeping track.
SPEAKER_03: Nothing has been lost, right?
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is, is that we have the certainty, right, that God does not forget all of the pains, all the heartache, all the suffering that so we don't have to carry that.
SPEAKER_03: We don't have to keep track.
SPEAKER_03: We can say, okay, that person hurt me, that person did me wrong.
SPEAKER_03: Here you go, Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: You're keeping track.
SPEAKER_03: I pray that they put it under the blood.
SPEAKER_03: I pray that they get forgiveness, but it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna let you keep track of it because you've shown throughout history and throughout the word that you protect and defend those who are in covenant relationship with you, and you keep track of those things so I don't have to.
SPEAKER_03: Now that doesn't mean that we become gullible, right?
SPEAKER_03: So if somebody hits you with a baseball bat, you don't have to get back within swinging distance until they get rid of the baseball bat, okay?
SPEAKER_03: Um, but as a matter of fact, you don't ever really have to get back in swinging distance again.
SPEAKER_03: But the the the thing is is that there's a balance to that.
SPEAKER_03: And so starting in verse eight, um sorry, verse seven.
SPEAKER_03: And I will make the mountain of Seir a desolation and a ruin, and I will cut all and I will cut off from it both he who is crossing over and he who is returning.
SPEAKER_03: I will fill the mountains with its slain, your hills and your valleys, all of your water courses, the slain by the sword will fall on them, an everlasting desolation.
SPEAKER_03: I will make you an everlasting desolation.
SPEAKER_03: Will make you, and your cities will not return, and you will know that I am Yahweh.
SPEAKER_03: I do this because of your saying, the two nations and the two lands, they will be mine, and we will take possession of it.
SPEAKER_03: And yet Yahweh was there.
SPEAKER_03: So I want to stop right here.
SPEAKER_03: Now this is a pretty strong judgment.
SPEAKER_03: Basically, he's saying, I'm going to make your nation such a wasteland that nobody's going to want to travel through it.
SPEAKER_03: And so, and I'm going to destroy it so that your cities are never going to come back again.
SPEAKER_03: But the reason is because they said, Oh, well, and again, this prophecy came out after the capture of Jerusalem, after the depopulation, the desolation of Judea and Samaria in the land of Israel.
SPEAKER_03: And so now the Edomites are going, oh, they're defenseless.
SPEAKER_03: Only the poor people and the and the defenseless are there.
SPEAKER_03: So now we can take the land that we know that God gave to somebody else, and we can take it for ourselves.
SPEAKER_03: And we know that the temple of God and the presence of God was once there, and the temple of God is still there.
SPEAKER_03: And we're going to take it even though we know that this was God's land and that it was apportioned to somebody else.
SPEAKER_03: So when you want to understand what coveting is in the Bible, okay, you should not covet your neighbors, right?
SPEAKER_03: One of the commandments.
SPEAKER_03: They wanted to take what was set aside as God's portion and God's land and use it for themselves based on their own wants and their own desires.
SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we see, first of all, what that leads people into this place of judgment is celebrating and contributing to the downfall of others and celebrating their suffering and those kind of things.
SPEAKER_03: The second is trying to appropriate the things of God for our own purposes and twist the thing of God to be our own for our own desires.
SPEAKER_03: And so the um so we see this a lot in, and we've talked a lot about this, so I'm not going to talk very much about this, but we see this a lot with people who start out in ministry, they have tremendous gifting, they have tremendous thing, and then all of a sudden the wealth and the fame and all that stuff kind of gets to them, right?
SPEAKER_03: And and then the celebrity gets knocked off track, and then all of a sudden they start faking miracles because they need a new supply of miracles, right, to keep the crowds coming.
SPEAKER_03: Um and um the the um one of the things that we tend to see is that when you get to that pressure, because I think you know, some of these ministries have to bring in two, three million dollars a day to keep going.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, especially if they're on TV.
SPEAKER_03: I know Rod Parsley 25 years ago said he needed a million dollars a day to stay on TV.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: They had to generate that much income and that much interest.
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is that there becomes this pressure to keep generating this kind of peace.
SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden it goes from, right, I'm doing it for God, then I start manipulating the things of God for my own agenda.
SPEAKER_03: And that's how people start to go off track.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and and another piece that kind of fits here, as I was praying, I was kind of after I teach, I go and I get my prayer closet and say, okay, Lord, how'd I do?
SPEAKER_03: And um, and one of the things that he wanted me to point out, talking about false shepherds and false prophets, which kind of fits here a little bit, is that um one of the mistakes that we as classic Pentecostals made, because I've talked a lot about that, uh, about the positives, is that at least, and again, this wasn't the official teaching, this was more in practice, is that people began to see when God did a miracle through somebody as validating the person who did the miracle who prayed for or the miracle flowed through.
SPEAKER_03: So if you had a famous preacher and he laid hands on somebody and somebody came out of a wheelchair, we went, oh, God's validating that famous preacher, prophet, whatever.
SPEAKER_03: Scripturally, though, when God does a miracle, he validates God Himself as work and alive in the world.
SPEAKER_03: And he validates the word of God.
SPEAKER_03: That's what signs and wonders and miracles validate.
SPEAKER_03: It is not validating to the person.
SPEAKER_03: So again, I'm gonna tell you we were in school of revival, God was moving, I was sitting right there, Sharon Loomis was sitting right here.
SPEAKER_03: I've got a long, I've known Sharon for a long time, so I knew this was going to be okay, right?
SPEAKER_03: Don't lay hands on anybody suddenly unless you know you've got permission.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: But the the thing is, as Holy Spirit said, while we were in worship, just go over and lay your hand on our shoulder.
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, okay, I didn't know why.
SPEAKER_03: So I went and I laid my hand on her shoulder and I prayed for a little bit.
SPEAKER_03: And he goes, Okay, now you're done.
SPEAKER_03: Now go step back.
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, okay, well, all right, nobody died.
SPEAKER_03: I guess we're okay, you know, because it's like nothing happened.
SPEAKER_03: She just kept doing what she was doing.
SPEAKER_03: And so we figured out in a prayer meeting later, because she didn't really even know that I prayed for her.
SPEAKER_03: And so she she was in that prayer meeting, and she goes, you know, I went to my physical therapist and God just healed my shoulder miraculously.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: And we were planning on weeks and weeks and weeks more of physical therapy, and they're like, So how's your shoulder?
SPEAKER_03: And she's putting zero, zero, zero, zero, zero on all those one of those little scales, right?
SPEAKER_03: And they're like, wait a minute, what what's wrong?
SPEAKER_03: What don't you knew how to fill this out?
SPEAKER_03: I don't know the exact thing.
SPEAKER_03: They were confused.
SPEAKER_03: She goes, No, God healed my shoulder, the one that I couldn't lift.
SPEAKER_03: Now I can move.
SPEAKER_03: And she goes, she fired her physical therapist.
SPEAKER_03: And uh, or God did.
SPEAKER_03: Now the thing is, I can tell you that, but that doesn't validate me.
SPEAKER_03: That doesn't mean that you should listen to Daryl apart from the validation that God gives in Scripture, right?
SPEAKER_03: Do I agree with the word?
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: Do you see the fruit of the Spirit?
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: Am I submitted to those who are in spiritual authority over me?
SPEAKER_03: Am I subject to their leadership, to the pastor and the elders and all those kind of things, right?
SPEAKER_03: That's the, you know, sometimes we get a little bit upset with two-factor validation on the internet, right?
SPEAKER_03: You got to sign in with a password, and then you got to do a one-time passcode on your phone.
SPEAKER_03: Well, God really gives us a three uh three three-way validation, right?
SPEAKER_03: It's the fruit of the Spirit, agree with the word, submitted to authority, and and and walking consistently is a fourth one.
SPEAKER_03: And so we have these multiple validation events, but the thing is, is that the mistake that we made is thinking, oh, God used somebody to heal somebody, or they preached this great message and a thousand people got saved.
SPEAKER_03: So now, right, they must be right about everything.
SPEAKER_03: And that's not biblical.
SPEAKER_03: And so when we talk about that, once you get to the point where people say, Oh, you're right about everything, the challenge to um start to, the temptation to start to use that for your own ends can be very, very challenging.
SPEAKER_03: Because I saw people go, oh, this great evangelist did this, and they were even starting to go, do you know where he buys his suits?
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: He's so anointed, I want to wear suits like he wears.
SPEAKER_03: Now, you know this is an old story because I'm talking about suits, right?
SPEAKER_03: Um, but the the the thing, and again, you think that I'm making that up as an exaggeration.
SPEAKER_03: That is an actual conversation that I had.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I want to wear the suits like the man of God wears because I want the anointing that he has.
SPEAKER_03: And I'm pretty like even then, I was like, I'm pretty sure it doesn't come from his tailor, okay?
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so, but the thing is, is that right, then if people go, oh yeah, you know, and then you could go, then there's that temptation.
SPEAKER_03: Well, I could just tell him where I get my suits made, right?
SPEAKER_03: And then I could tell my tailor that I mentioned that when I'm in the pulpit, and I could get some free suits.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: That starts one little thing.
SPEAKER_03: And again, I wouldn't be talking about this if I hadn't if I didn't see it happen, right?
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is is that yes, what Edom did was a much bigger, much more graphic picture.
SPEAKER_03: But again, when we talk about types and shadows of those things that that God uh disapproves of, it is taking the things of God and turning it for our own ends.
SPEAKER_03: The other thing you hear me talk about a lot is that we take the Bible and we turn and scripture and the name of Jesus and we use it for our own political aspirations.
SPEAKER_03: Now, again, there's nothing wrong about speaking about morals, there's nothing wrong about speaking about against abortion and issues and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_03: Um, but um, have you ever met somebody that the Bible agrees with every one of their political positions?
SPEAKER_03: You know, um, I've met I've met two people, one of them thought that the Bible supported their position on food stamps going one way, and the other person was quoting scripture on food stamps going the other way.
SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking, you know, you both can't be right.
SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, when we when we talk about that right, it's okay for us to humble ourselves before the word of God and speak those moral truths into politics, but we can never speak our politics into the Bible and twist it for those political ends.
SPEAKER_03: And we see so much of that online and in the world right now, where people are running political campaigns, you're trying to use the Bible to beat each other up, all to glorify themselves and gain power, and none of it to lift up and glorify the precious name of Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: And so you'll notice that you can have two types of people.
SPEAKER_03: One is the person who says, I'm using the Bible to gain my status and my privilege and my prestige, and the other person says, I'm using my status to lift up the name of the Almighty God and lift up the name of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'll get off that soapbox.
SPEAKER_03: All right, um, so in verse um 11.
SPEAKER_03: Therefore, as I live, declares the Lord Yahweh, so I will deal with you according to your anger and according to your jealousy that you did because of your hatred against them, and I will make myself known among them when I judge you.
SPEAKER_03: And you will know that I, Yahweh, I have heard all of your contemptible words that you said against the mountains of Israel, saying, They will be desolate, they are giving, they are given to us as food.
SPEAKER_03: So, in this, right, so you had, right, celebration of others' downfall, covetousness, right, and then you see, right, anger, and jealousy that they did.
SPEAKER_03: Jealousy that now a lot of times we think jealousy, we we think about okay, jealousy that we feel, but this is jealousy that they acted on.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And so the um one of the things that, and and the hatred that came out of that that jealousy.
SPEAKER_03: So it was anger, jealousy that was acted upon, and hatred.
SPEAKER_03: Again, we do not war against flesh and blood.
SPEAKER_03: The judgment of flesh and blood is reserved to God.
SPEAKER_03: We war against powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places.
SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we have to be careful about is to not let our hatred and anger against sin become hatred and anger against sinners.
SPEAKER_03: We have to make sure that we allow any wrath that is reserved against the perpetrators of evil be reserved to God and not take that into ourselves.
SPEAKER_03: Because if we allow that anger and that judgment, that wrath to come into us, we let evil on the outside form evil on the inside.
SPEAKER_03: And so now can we say, oh, yeah, I hate murder?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: Can we say I hate abortion?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: Can we say I hate sexual immorality?
SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03: Can we say we're gonna do everything we can to stop those actions?
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03: Can we say that we hate every appearance of evil?
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03: Can we say that we're gonna work and pass laws and do things through government, which is the agency of God in the world to stop people from doing evil?
SPEAKER_03: That's the reason why God doesn't want Christians to like join vigilante gangs, right, and go made out justice on our own.
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is that because when we take part in those things, right, it begins to corrupt us as a part of the process.
SPEAKER_03: And we have to understand that God is protecting us from the corrosive effects of hatred and anger toward people because it's a corrupting influence.
SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that either drives that or results from that is jealousy.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And it's okay to be jealous for the name of God and be jealous for the house of God, right, and those kinds of things.
SPEAKER_03: But jealousy is in this sense, is a sense of being deprived, a sense of being shorted, a sense of being left out of something that is rightfully yours.
SPEAKER_03: And one of the great things that Duncan Smith said on Sunday, nobody owes you anything.
SPEAKER_03: I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, I think it would be wrong and distracting on a Sunday morning to stand up on a chair and cheer out loud.
SPEAKER_03: I think that might be so I didn't do it at that moment.
SPEAKER_03: But as a counselor, I didn't do it.
SPEAKER_03: Uh I did say amen rather loudly, though.
SPEAKER_03: But I was going to stand up and cheer, and then also it would have been funny when I fell off and you know broke something.
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, um, and so the the but no one knows us anything.
SPEAKER_03: And so jealousy comes from an idea that we are owed something, that somebody else has an obligation to give us something.
SPEAKER_03: And again, this specifically in this context, Edom, right, is in that place of saying, I have a land apportioned by God, but I am owed something better or something different than what God has for me.
SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we see when we talk about end times prophecy is Edom not only is the symbol of this particular nation, but it's also representative of all the other nations that oppose God and oppose God's order in the world, right?
SPEAKER_03: Because Jacob and Esau, so they're a type coming through Esau that they're the type of people who are trying to subvert what God said and what God has given us is not enough, going all the way back to the garden.
unknown: Right?
SPEAKER_03: Remember in the Garden of Eden, they had Adam and Eve, they were ruling all over the animals and the plants, right?
SPEAKER_03: They had the whole world.
SPEAKER_03: God gave them authority, God gave them complete authority over an entire brand new world.
SPEAKER_03: Created a brand new world just for them.
SPEAKER_03: Set them in this beautiful garden.
SPEAKER_03: They had access to the tree of life.
SPEAKER_03: How cool would it be to have access to the tree of life, or you could just go pick the fruit anytime you wanted and eat the fruit of life and have the life of God flow through your veins, right?
SPEAKER_03: That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03: But then the serpent, the tempter, came to them and said, Yeah, you've got all the trees in the garden.
SPEAKER_03: You've got all this beautiful world, but there's one tree you can't eat of.
SPEAKER_03: Now, would a good God really keep that tree from you?
SPEAKER_03: Has God really given you the very best portion?
SPEAKER_03: Is what God has given you the good stuff?
SPEAKER_03: This one tree, it will make you like God's.
SPEAKER_03: God's denying you.
SPEAKER_03: The serpent made them jealous for the one tree in the entire garden on the entire planet that they couldn't, you know.
SPEAKER_03: Can you imagine if somebody said you can eat at any restaurant for free in the United States?
SPEAKER_03: Just show them this card.
SPEAKER_03: But you just can't eat at Crystal.
SPEAKER_03: Now, if it were me, it would be Taco Bell, because I I can't stand Taco Bell.
SPEAKER_03: And so um, don't look at me like that.
SPEAKER_03: That's more for you.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, God bless you.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so um the um, and so you you can eat anywhere that you want to eat except, you know, at Crystal.
SPEAKER_03: And you're going, man, I could eat at the local goat, I could eat at Pedler, I can eat at Alamo, right?
SPEAKER_03: I can eat at Five Guys if I want a burger.
SPEAKER_03: But man, God is trying to deprive me of Crystal.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: You can drive 200 miles north and eat at a White Castle.
SPEAKER_03: It's practically the same thing, except a little better, sorry.
SPEAKER_03: And um the the thing is is that no, but you see, God hates me because, right, I can't eat at crystal.
SPEAKER_03: That's the power of jealousy.
SPEAKER_03: To get us to want something that is substandard when God has given us something so much better.
SPEAKER_03: And that's always the plan of God to leave people away from them is that right, it's um always the illusion that it's the fear of missing out, the fear of being denied.
SPEAKER_03: And we we take that and say, right, God, our portion is insufficient.
SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, one of the things that um uh especially i in the United States, when when people, and again, there are poor people in the United States.
SPEAKER_03: I worked at a homeless shelter for a couple years.
SPEAKER_03: I understand that there are there's real poverty and there's real really poor people, but in the United States, again, worldwide, if you're talking about poverty, that means that, for example, 75% of the world doesn't have air conditioning.
SPEAKER_03: So if you have air conditioning, you're you're you're wealthier in that regard than 25% of the people in the world.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: If all of the household income from every source that you take into your house, from every person that's a part of your house, including a government assistant, is greater than$40,000 a year, you're richer than 85% of the world.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: If you can go down to the urgent care and get an antibiotic, you have better medical care than the King of England had or the President of the United States had 120 years ago.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And so the because I think it was Calvin Coolidge's son who died because he got a gash on his leg and it got infected, and he died because there were no antibiotics to treat it.
SPEAKER_03: And so the the thing is that I again when I bring those things up, it is to make give us not a sense of guilt or a sense of, oh, you know, it is how blessed are we?
SPEAKER_03: How blessed are we that we live, right?
SPEAKER_03: Uh in in a in a and again, that there are countries where people might get meat for for a meal, right, 12 times a year.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: And so the the the the thing is is that, and there are people who live on a dollar a day, right?
SPEAKER_03: And if you adjust for inflation, that means they're living on three dollars, or a price difference is they live for on three dollars a day.
SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's and so the the thing is is that then got then the enemy comes up and goes, yeah, but that person across the street, they've got a nicer house.
SPEAKER_03: Right.
SPEAKER_03: And and and the reason why I'm so passionate about this is in treating and mental health.
SPEAKER_03: When I was in northwest Indiana, I had somebody come in and they were depressed.
SPEAKER_03: They were clinically depressed.
SPEAKER_03: They rang DSM 5, they rang all the bells on medication.
SPEAKER_03: And what they were depressed about is now because they were poor.
SPEAKER_03: They lived in a gated community in northwest Indiana in a suburb of Chicago.
SPEAKER_03: This was a community that was so exclusive that you again it wasn't a gated community where people could just go in.
SPEAKER_03: There was actually an attendant at the gate, and you had to have a card to get in and out.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And if you were visiting somebody, they would actually pick up the phone and call them and make sure that you.
SPEAKER_03: were actually a visitor or if you were getting a delivery.
SPEAKER_03: It was that exclusive.
SPEAKER_03: It was a gated community to degree that you were required by the Homeowners Association to spend 10% of the value of your house on landscaping.
SPEAKER_03: So if you in this case if you had a half a million dollar house you were required at that time about 20, 25 years ago, I'm sorry, 15 years ago, to spend$50,000 just on landscaping.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: This was the neighborhood they were in.
SPEAKER_03: And they were coming to me and I'm like, can you not afford to pay for your house?
SPEAKER_03: No, we can afford to pay for your house no, are you caught up on your mortgage?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're caught up on our mortgage, got nice cars, have careers, kids go to good school.
SPEAKER_03: And what it is, he goes, but my house is the smallest house in my neighborhood.
SPEAKER_03: I've got a at that time a half million dollar house which would be about 1.2, 1.5 now because of the inflation of real estate deals.
SPEAKER_03: But everybody else had houses that were be worth between three and five now.
SPEAKER_03: And so their house was only and I and I'm like do you see the neighborhoods that you drive through to get to your gated community right where the average house is probably worth at that time about$100,000, about a fifth.
SPEAKER_03: And she goes yeah but when I drive in and I look at my front window all I see are houses that are nicer than mine.
SPEAKER_03: That's the power of jealousy is to get people to look at what they don't have instead of what they do and then break the boundaries and the covenants and indict God as being unjust because somebody has something that they perceive to be a little better.
SPEAKER_03: And so when we talk about how Edom right came to where they were again going back to the story of Esau he sold his birthright for we'll say a pot of pento beans and and the the the the thing is is that it's because he did not value the things that God told him to value and he lost sight of it based on his immediate emotional experience.
SPEAKER_03: I'm hungry right and I mean has anybody ever been so hungry you thought you were going to die but you didn't get to eat and you didn't actually die right there's a lot of things in life that it feels so urgent in the moment that if I don't get this it's good you know especially when you're a kid right you you you you right you want the bicycle or you want the game system or you know that and then and it feels like oh this is the most important thing in the world and sometimes when you're a kid you get the most important thing in the world and then 37 minutes later you're bored with it right and and so the um we're not even going to talk about beanie babies but anyway um no I can't go there.
SPEAKER_03: Okay so um but the thing is is that right jealousy gives us it it it is an indictment of how God values things and putting our opinion of how things are valued over what God has.
SPEAKER_03: And again that's what leads people into places where they start to abuse the gifts and the anointing of God and start to abuse the things of God because then they start to get this warped sense of how what God is doing in their life and they start judging God.
SPEAKER_03: God what you've given me isn't enough.
SPEAKER_03: What you've given me isn't sufficient the portion that you've given me the ministry that you've given me right the life that you've given me is not enough.
SPEAKER_03: Now that doesn't mean that you can't be ambitious that means you can't that doesn't mean you can't plan and invest and save all that's there because that's part of God's plan.
SPEAKER_03: It just means you can't say God you're unfair in where I'm at and what's going on in my life and that's what Edom did.
SPEAKER_03: And they allowed their jealousy to drive them to do evil things right where Israel was escaping under the hand of Nebuchadnezzar and the refugees it's going to say that were escaping the hand of Nebuchadnezzar's army the Edomites slaughtered them just out of jealousy and hatred and revenge.
SPEAKER_03: They were no military threat to them.
SPEAKER_03: They just killed them because they could verse 12 and you will know that I Yahweh I have heard all of the contemptible words that you said against the mountains of Israel saying they will be desolate they were given to us as few food excuse me and you magnified yourself against me with your insolent speech and you spoke voluminously against me with your words I heard okay so again the the last thing is is that that he's charging Mount Seir and Edom with is that they spoke against God and against the plan of God and so and they spoke nonstop against God and against the plan of God and one of the things right that it kind of in the culture not wider culture but just the local culture that I was raised in have you ever been in in cultures where everybody's critical of everything Christian that's not their specific flavor right their specific brand and so I was kind of raised in that right you you kind of proved how loyal you were and how sanctified you were and how you know godly you were but how much you criticized other Christians right as a matter of fact my brother who was older than I was but sometimes had challenges understanding the world when we were teenagers he was about 17 I was about 12 he came up to me and goes do you think Baptists are going to heaven right and I'm like yeah and and so the but the thing is is the culture was so critical and so judgmental and and the thing is is that and you see this again in our society and our culture right and and it's okay to speak out against false teachers and false prophets as those things are defined in scripture but again the the thing is is that they spoke against the things of God just simply because it wasn't benefiting them or it wasn't part of their tribe or part of their community.
SPEAKER_03: And so we have to be very careful about not speaking against the people with whom we disagree with on things, but who affirm the crucifixion the resurrection and the return and the necessity of Jesus Christ for salvation and the blood of Jesus as when they start saying Jesus is the only way to heaven right that that now again unless they're using those words deceptively to say Jesus is the only way to heaven and Jesus told me to give you give me your house okay you can speak against that.
SPEAKER_03: Alright but the the thing is is that we have to be very careful when it comes to eschatology when it becomes to prophecy when it comes to you know whether you believe in predestination or free will whether you believe in speaking in tongues or you don't we have to be very careful not to speak against those others who are naming the name of God and who are God's servants that we don't speak against what God is doing in their life.
SPEAKER_03: Okay and and uh I just saw a story about R.
SPEAKER_03: C.
SPEAKER_03: Sprout Jr who is very reformed very very predestination five point Calvinist right and he was talking about um Billy Graham who is very much a free will guy right very much you know we we have the the ability to choose that and somebody asked R.
SPEAKER_03: C.
SPEAKER_03: Sprout in a question and answer he goes do you think that you're going to see Billy Graham in heaven and R.C.
SPEAKER_03: Sproul goes no he goes I think he's going to be so much closer to the throne that I am I'm not even going to have a chance to run across him and so even though they had strong marked sharp differences that they might debate for for days and weeks and months they still had the respect for each other that they were both children of God.
SPEAKER_03: And so when we we talk about that there are things that God does that frankly people have encounters and experiences with God that I don't understand.
SPEAKER_03: There are people that have encounters in ways that in my understanding of scripture and again talking they're not diverging right from the the the doctrines of the faith but they just encounter God or experience God or walk with God with ways that don't really make that much sense to me but they're they're doing those things right so they show the fruit of the Spirit love and peace and joy and goodness and gentleness right and self-control and and all those kind of things right they they they declare Jesus Christ and him crucified but they may say you know oh I I I died and I went to heaven and I encountered God and I came back I have no way of knowing if that's real or not.
SPEAKER_03: Have I experienced it?
SPEAKER_03: Thankfully no because I think the dying part would kind of stink but the the the thing is is that I have to be careful because I haven't experienced it from saying oh that can't happen or that can't be true.
SPEAKER_03: Now I don't have to automatically say oh they they came back and I have to believe every word of it but I have to be careful about what I speak against.
SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we see this is that God pays attention to what people say right and what they declare about his kingdom about his intent and about his words.
SPEAKER_03: So again when somebody takes the name of the Lord in vain right and we get offended we don't have to we don't have to keep track of that we don't have to worry about it.
SPEAKER_03: Now again if it's one of your kids right if it's in a company you own okay you get to correct that and all that kind of stuff but again if I'm out in the parking lot and somebody takes the name of the Lord in vain I don't have to go right I can just go Lord save them right help them find mercy and grace and then just go on right and so verse 14 thus the Lord Yahweh says as the whole world rejoices I will make you a desolation like you're rejoicing over the inheritance of the house of Israel because it was desolate I will do to you and you will be a desolation mountain of Seir and all of Edom indeed all of it they will know that I am Yahweh so when we see this this last piece right we see that this chapter may not just be historical but it may be future as well as Edom stands in for all the enemies of Israel because he said the whole world will rejoice and the the thing is is that Edom suffered and declined right we don't see historically a time when the whole world was like yeah Edom got what had what they had coming to them right and so the thing is is that as we see this in in Ezekiel we may see and you'll notice I'm using the word may right not will but may we see a judgment of Edom or we may see a judgment of Edom representing all of those nations that tried to destroy Israel and tried to take advantage of Israel in the future in in that grap great last day judgment.
SPEAKER_03: Because God keeps covenant and God has a place for Israel regardless of where they've made mistakes or where they've messed up he is faithful and true to his word and so the the the thing is is that when we talk about this and we we talk about and again I talk about this a ton because I see every single day people making the argument um about that Israel has no no longer has a place in in the Bible.
SPEAKER_03: I see this every single day multiple times a day so I'm not teaching this like this just because I have a a hobby horse I want to ride.
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm talking about a very real move that we're seeing right now.
SPEAKER_03: Again can't prove it yet likely funded by foreign actors in order to to for political purposes and again if people have real theological disagreements I have no problem with them disagreeing with me but we're seeing a real move right now from political actors to distort the word of God for political purposes to displace Israel in the word of God.
SPEAKER_03: And so again they're like again RC Sproul would completely disagree with me on on replacement theology and he's a man of God and he's not a political actor and he's fine that's just a disagreement but the or if he were alive but the the thing is is that we have to be careful right that again and and the other thing is is that the other word that says that this is a future thing as well as a past thing is the word inheritance because in this chapter Jerusalem has already been conquered and Jerusalem has already been captured and the people have already been driven out and yet God still says there is an inheritance for the children of Israel.
SPEAKER_03: And so the um the the um the reality is is that this chapter the reason why this chapter ends like this is because chapter 36 is telling Israel that they still have a future okay and so that's what we're going to get into next time is we're gonna talk about the the future of Israel and the future right and you'll notice it in chapter 34 get rid of the false shepherds here comes Israel's blessing.
SPEAKER_03: Chapter 35 get rid of those who have perpetrated evil chapter 36 here comes Israel's blessing.
SPEAKER_03: So you see these patterns in Ezekiel over and over and over where God judges evil to make way for the good and so when you see the pattern in the end times where there's a great tribulation period right before you see the thousand year millennial reign it's following the same pattern that we see in Ezekiel and the children of Israel.
SPEAKER_03: Right?
SPEAKER_03: So we're seeing those same patterns repeated of a time of judgment to judge evil and then a time of blessing and redemption and restoration.
SPEAKER_03: All right do you guys have any questions?
SPEAKER_03: And again if you do have questions make sure to to keep the microphone about this close to your mouth so that it makes easier to edit the podcast.
SPEAKER_03: I think I used to know this but now my mind is blank what is present day Edom present day Edom is I think currently in Jordan and um and again Ryan you can correct me or anybody else pastor I think it's it's south of the Dead Sea and uh east so it's south and east of that.
SPEAKER_03: So I think it's it's present day Jordan when you was talking about jealousy in that definition I appreciate how you brought that down but also you talked about the inheritance it it a question came to my mind because of the way you was breaking down jealousy what is it called because I can implement Israel throughout this as well what is it called when individuals would join a new environment but they remain so anchored to the past that they're constantly comparing their present environment I think and just to give you my my my quick answer I think that that's a form of pride I think it is I'm so proud of what was that because usually when people compare right it always comes up short in the present right the the things in the past and those kind of things and so the thing is is that uh my experience tells me that a lot of that is rooted in a sense of of pride some grieving because sometimes people have a hard time letting the past go but grieving has a process and it comes to an end pride is when I start being competitive and and saying right what I'm in now is never as good as what I I once had then it it starts to be a a a symbol of it's again it can be a status seeking right so yeah I've I've I've had it better than you right and and again the the the technical term for that is downward social comparison and downward social comparison is one of the ways that we make ourselves feel better by saying oh look at the poor right who's worse off than we are and and again there's some utility to that there's again I'm not criticizing that completely but in the things of God if we say what we're currently experiencing can never be as good as what we had in the past then that that becomes oh I was involved in something but but you weren't or I was in part part of something special that can't be repeated or exceeded in the current thing then I think that comes into pride.
SPEAKER_02: Anybody else want to comment on that?
SPEAKER_02: Okay any other questions, comments?
SPEAKER_04: Just curious what your thoughts or opinion on this is um as the Lord I think it's written that he sets the boundaries of nations and um what we saw here with Edom and Israel of course the Lord did not allow them to take Israel's land.
SPEAKER_04: Is it um because the Lord sets the boundaries of nations that even other nations that covet you know what other nations have like Germany did World War II taking over France Poland all that sooner or later all those nations were restored back to you know their own their own people do you it looks like God is just that sovereign.
SPEAKER_04: You might get away with it for a while even as Russia's trying to take over Ukraine they're having a hard time doing it.
SPEAKER_04: Do you believe that sooner or later the Lord's going to restore that nation back to itself if another nation coveted and went to war against it and took it over I think that in in the very long view the answer is yes.
SPEAKER_03: So because you you understand that in the thousand year reign the nations still have a role and so when when you you take a look at that will those things all eventually be made according to the order yes again but that's where you take the very long view I think sometimes in the short term view where God has a purpose and a plan for a nation that's it that that happens as far as as the others the the real answer is I don't know okay you notice he's pausing to give you a chance right that's that's he he's he's being very disciplined up here.
SPEAKER_04: I love how you taught this and brought this all out um especially when um a man of God starts out well and then maybe makes a mistake um my observation has be has been that the kingdom of darkness is usually very very unified but us as a church is not so much and I um a perfect example when I was a kid and I think it actually affected us as a nation I know it affected us as a church because you're made mention on Facebook where someone falls uh a big name uh minister and they all pile on they're all just gnashing their teeth basically on them but uh when I was a kid uh jimmy swaggard you know he was he was um uh you know a man of God and I think um he had an international ministry he was well respected and then of course he had um he had a falling there and I just remember as a kid I mean people I mean the church basically just rejected him I mean just totally rejected him piled on what nothing to do with him whatsoever and uh uh even I think for one that is um what you taught was yeah that is so wrong to make that judgment and to and to just uh criticize uh uh man of God because he had he had problems but I think it opened up a door to this nation where now it it is just amplified it's just so vicious yeah she reads to me stuff on Facebook I don't go on Facebook and I just can hardly believe it but I think it opened up a door uh starting with Jimmy Swaggard that is just um it has not relented yet and I think we suffered as a nation because of it um I think we can all just again my little two cent opinion there we can all maybe just learn from King David you know that s King Saul totally screwed up and he was a he was appointed by the Lord but even David said I will not touch the Lord's anointed and with this is a lesson that we've got to at least turn and change and learn from that that uh yeah Anyone can fall, anyone can make a mistake.
SPEAKER_04: Us all can make a mistake, but we just gotta stop, you know, thrusting one another.
SPEAKER_04: It's just uh it just it just becomes fodder for the enemy.
SPEAKER_03: It does.
SPEAKER_03: And and uh again, there's again nothing wrong with restoration processes and accountability and and those kind of things.
SPEAKER_03: That's one thing.
SPEAKER_03: But when people celebrate and delight in the destruction of a ministry, even if they disagree with it, um again, that that's where it starts to show that their heart is deviating from the Lord.
SPEAKER_03: So there are people that I disagree with, people that from the very beginning I've looked and I've listened to their ministry, and I'm going again, I'm from the hills.
SPEAKER_03: Something ain't right.
SPEAKER_03: And and so the and ain't is a perfectly good word, by the way.
SPEAKER_03: But uh, something ain't right.
SPEAKER_03: And and so, and then, you know, I've had people, you know, go, you know, you're being judgmental, or you're being critical, or you should you should really get in on this.
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, you guys can go, God bless you, but it's just not for me, something ain't right.
SPEAKER_03: And then something comes out later, and then right, they've been involved in sin or immorality or they're a fake.
SPEAKER_03: And and you get that really strong human sense of ha ha ha, I was right, right?
SPEAKER_03: And the people who criticize me were wrong, and that's a trap.
SPEAKER_03: And I had to get corrected a couple times by Holy Spirit by a couple, maybe two digits, but we're not talking about that.
SPEAKER_03: Um and the the the thing is, is that right, that that rejoicing in, you know, I thought something was wrong and I got criticized for it, right?
SPEAKER_03: And then if you just say, okay, that's between you and God, God bless you, and you can even explain this is why I don't agree or whatever, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_03: But the moment that you let it form on the inside that that bitterness or that revenge or that judgmentalness or that delighting, right?
SPEAKER_03: So again, are there people when we've talked about it in here, right?
SPEAKER_03: I am thrilled that the people who are going on Facebook and social media and using the internet to give false words in the name of God, I am thrilled that that practice got stopped.
SPEAKER_03: My heart is broken for that individual in that ministry.
SPEAKER_03: And so that's really where we have to, and again, if I had known about it, would I have talked about it to everybody that I knew?
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, after I went to that person and tried to get them to publicly repent.
SPEAKER_03: But the the thing is, is that it's okay to oppose the acts, it's okay to oppose the evil, it's okay to be delighted that evil things are stopped, but then we always have to remember that that person is a person that Jesus died for and wants to redeem.
SPEAKER_03: And so the the the thing is, is that because and again, a lot of the delight over Jimmy Swaggart is Jimmy Swaggart fell, and a lot of people were jealous that he was more successful than they were, and so that that drove a lot of that.