SPEAKER_05: Welcome to the Summit Church Podcast.
SPEAKER_05: Thank you for joining us as we share weekly sermons and teachings from Summit Church in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
SPEAKER_05: Our prayer is that today's message encourages your faith and helps you grow in your relationship with Jesus.
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SPEAKER_01: Welcome to all of you, and welcome to all of those who are listening through the Summit podcast that can be found at SummitChurchTN for those who would like to find that.
SPEAKER_01: It has Wednesday night teaching and uh Sunday morning sermons, among other things.
SPEAKER_01: And so that is available on Spotify, Apple Music, and Amazon Music.
SPEAKER_01: And so I want to encourage you to take part in that if you if you would like to do so.
SPEAKER_01: So tonight we are going to move into probably, especially in Pentecostal Charismatic Circles, probably the most famous chapter of Ezekiel.
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about the Valley of Dry Bones.
SPEAKER_01: And the great thing about this chapter is that it preaches really well.
SPEAKER_01: The terrible thing about this chapter is it preaches really well, and I need to teach it.
SPEAKER_01: So I I will try to teach it effectively.
SPEAKER_01: And I want to remind us that we can never outfaithful God.
SPEAKER_01: We can never outlove God.
SPEAKER_01: We can never out-sacrifice God.
SPEAKER_01: It is in his character and his identity to act on the behalf of those that he loves and those who he is in covenant with as sons and daughters.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's the setting for chapter 37 and in the the uh prophecy of the valley of dry bones.
SPEAKER_01: Now, again, for those of you who've been in in church for a while, you've heard this this uh uh chapter uh again as this uh subject of sermons multiple times.
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not really going to cover as much that aspect as to teach you the prophecy in context in Ezekiel and what it means for for the end times and our view of the overall view of of the world as God sees it from beginning to end.
SPEAKER_01: So starting, and today I'm reading out of the New American Standard Bible, and so in Ezekiel 37, verse 1, it says, The hand of the Lord was upon me, this is Ezekiel, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley, and it was full of bones.
SPEAKER_01: He caused me to pass among them roundabout, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and lo, they were very dry.
SPEAKER_01: He said to me, Son of man, can these bones live?
SPEAKER_01: And I answered, O Lord God, you know.
SPEAKER_01: Again he said to me, Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: Thus says the Lord God to these bones, Behold, I will cause breath, right?
SPEAKER_01: What we just sang about, the breath of God, the ruach.
SPEAKER_01: I will cause breath to enter you that you may come to life, and I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin, and put breath in you that you may come alive, and you will know that I am the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: So in Ezekiel 37, we have here Ezekiel being transported in a vision to a valley of very dry bleached bones.
SPEAKER_01: And it's a valley with a huge number of skeletons and a huge number of bones, and later on in the chapter, that's going to become important.
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that we see this as he sets this thing is that when you take a look at resurrection in the Old Testament, up to this point, everybody who had been raised from the dead was recently deceased.
SPEAKER_01: So when you see um uh the again, the the people who were thrown on top of the prophet's bones and they came back to life, right?
SPEAKER_01: They had been dead a few days.
SPEAKER_01: Um when when you see the the topic of resurrection, it was always somebody who still had their skin and their muscle and still had blood in their veins and all of that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01: But what Ezekiel here is prophesying is a different scenario.
SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of groundbreaking at the time, where he said these are skeletons that are have gone through every stage of decomposition.
SPEAKER_01: These are skeletons where the skin's gone, the muscles are gone, the all the tendons and ligaments are gone, all the blood vessels are gone, the blood's dried up, the marrow's dried up, and all you have left is these dead, very dry bones.
SPEAKER_01: And so in Jewish history, the belief was that when someone died, um, and again, not saying this is the biblical view, I'm saying this is the cultural view.
SPEAKER_01: When somebody died, you went back, your body went back to the to the ground, right?
SPEAKER_01: Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
SPEAKER_01: And the soul, the napesh, just kind of went to Sheol, or in in some uh cultures it dissipated.
SPEAKER_01: And so there was a separation of soul and body.
SPEAKER_01: So there was no, there was no life, either physical or spiritual, associated with these bones.
SPEAKER_01: They were just refuse.
SPEAKER_01: The other thing is, is that in the that time to leave somebody's bones out on the ground and exposed to the sun instead of giving them a proper burial meant that they were a covenant breaker.
SPEAKER_01: Meant that they were somebody who had lied on a contract or were an oathbreaker.
SPEAKER_01: So at the beginning of this vision, God is showing Ezekiel, right, that this entire valley covered in these bones of people who had broken covenant or broken oath or broke broken their word.
SPEAKER_01: And so that was the significance of them being out and exposed to the sun and to the elements.
SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of fun because God asked Ezekiel, oh, Ezekiel, can these bones live again?
SPEAKER_01: And Ezekiel's like, you know God, right?
SPEAKER_01: He was he was wimping out, right?
SPEAKER_01: He was passing the buck.
SPEAKER_01: He was like, I don't know, but I don't want to say I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: So, oh Lord, you know, you know, sounding all spiritual, right?
SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you, there's a lot of power in being able to say, I don't know, by the way.
SPEAKER_01: Three of the most powerful words in the English language.
SPEAKER_01: People say, Can you answer my question?
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I can answer any question because I don't know is an answer, right?
SPEAKER_01: And so um uh it takes a lot of pressure off.
SPEAKER_01: But uh so Ezekiel probably would have been better served to say simply, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: But he says, You know, O Lord.
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that we see is that um the full promise of resurrection was yet to be realized in the Old Testament.
SPEAKER_01: Uh Daniel chapter 12, verses 1 and 2 had spoken about it to some degree, but there was still some uncertainty in their minds about the full revelation because Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life.
SPEAKER_01: And so when Jesus came, we got that full revelation of the resurrection and the life through Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01: But in the Old Testament, what Ezekiel was prophesying was not well established.
SPEAKER_01: He was groundbreaking.
SPEAKER_01: He was not only prophesying about the future of the nation of Israel, but he was also speaking to them to expand their faith and to expand their understanding of the power and the demonstration of God.
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's significant that God chose a prophecy about covenant breakers and oathbreakers to say, Oh, you're a bunch of oathbreakers and covenant breakers, but look what my God can do.
SPEAKER_01: That God's power is not limited by our frailties, our faults, or our rebellion.
SPEAKER_01: Now, again, do we does God give us authority and faith, and do we do we affect how things work?
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: But the overall historical arc is God is going to have his will and his way through the course of human history without regard to what humans do.
SPEAKER_01: And so this is a demonstration and and uh uh of God's power in this.
SPEAKER_01: And so in verse 4, he said, and God again said to Ezekiel, Prophesy over these bones and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: Now this is where Ezekiel likes to play with language, okay?
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to talk about this a lot, but Ezekiel does a lot with structure and words and language, if you want to get really deep into this, which we're not going to do.
SPEAKER_01: Um, but he plays with language a lot.
SPEAKER_01: So what he's saying is God is prophets tell him to prophesy to these skeletons that don't have ears, hear the word of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: Okay?
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so um the the thing is is that again, this will preach great.
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna teach for a moment on it, right?
SPEAKER_01: God can speak to you past your limitations.
SPEAKER_01: When he says to dry bones, hear the word of the Lord, and they don't have ears or eardrums, they don't have brains, right?
SPEAKER_01: They don't have anything that's there.
SPEAKER_01: He's saying you can still, when God decides to speak, God can push past our limitations and we can hear and experience the move of God in our lives.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm not gonna stay there, but but um you'll probably get a sermon somewhere from there.
SPEAKER_01: Uh anyway, so um hear the word of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: Thus says the Lord God to these bones behold, I will cause breath to enter you that you may come to life.
SPEAKER_01: And again, you'll see that he starts to re is to reverse the decomposition process, right?
SPEAKER_01: I'll put sinews on you, make flesh to grow back on you, cover with skin, and then put breath into your body.
SPEAKER_01: So what we see is a rough recapitulation, a reversal of the decomposition of death and judgment.
SPEAKER_01: And again, death and decomposition and ashes to ashes, right?
SPEAKER_01: That's all a uh a sign and a result of the fall of man in Genesis.
SPEAKER_01: And we see here God saying, I can reverse this process.
SPEAKER_01: So it's not just God can take somebody who's recently dead and has everything, right?
SPEAKER_01: Or somebody can take God can take somebody who's backslidden a little bit, right, or walked away from the Lord and made a small mistake.
SPEAKER_01: But he's saying, right, I can reverse every element of the curse of sin and death from the fall.
SPEAKER_01: I can reverse every element.
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter how far gone you think you are, it doesn't matter how far you think the situation's gone, it doesn't matter how much of an oath breaker or a covenant breaker, an idolater.
SPEAKER_01: And again, the children of Israel were having orgies in the temple, okay, dedicated to false idols.
SPEAKER_01: All right.
SPEAKER_01: They were doing, and again, I'm cleaning it way up because uh, again, Ezekiel's very graphic.
SPEAKER_01: So um when he talks about their immorality, and again, I'm gonna clean it up, he says, I'm gonna keep you from continuing to spread your feces around, okay?
SPEAKER_01: So uh you can translate that into modern language if you want to.
SPEAKER_01: Um but the the the thing is is that they had literally desecrated to the house of God and the land of God to the point where God was saying, you have spread your feces all over my land, right?
SPEAKER_01: And but God is saying it doesn't matter how far you've gone, I can re-cause you to have life, no matter how degraded or no matter how destroyed sin has made your life and your rebellion.
SPEAKER_01: I'm able to take nothing that has not even a spark or a shred and completely reverse the curse that sin has in your life.
SPEAKER_01: And so and he says, and you will know that I am the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: You'll notice that this is a phrase continually through Ezekiel, is that when God reverses the effects of sin and transforms, it is a testimony to the sovereignty and the power and the reality of God.
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that um uh again, um I think that sometimes we lose in in trying to evangelize people, and we'll do the Romans road and we'll quote scripture to them and all that kind of stuff, and all that's great.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not denigrating that.
SPEAKER_01: Um but the the thing is, is the most powerful testimony is I met Jesus, he changed my life, and let me tell you how he spoke life into my life.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: That's the most powerful testimony.
SPEAKER_01: It's not a theological disposition, it's not it, you know.
SPEAKER_01: If again, you'll see people online that say, oh, if somebody could just answer this theological question, I would come to Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: No, no, they're looking for a fight most of the time.
SPEAKER_01: But most of the people you're gonna lead to Jesus is I was dead in my trespasses in sin, and Jesus came and lifted me out and set me on a solid rock and transformed me.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: Or as the old uh Jimmy Davis song, you know, when how do you know that God's real?
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was there when it happened, so I guess I ought to know, you know, and so um I was transformed.
SPEAKER_01: And that's the strongest testimony to the reality of God is I know God's real because I've encountered him, and he totally changed my life and enabled me to do what I couldn't do on my own.
SPEAKER_01: So, verse 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded, and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone.
SPEAKER_01: And I looked, and behold, sinews were on them, and flesh grew, and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.
SPEAKER_01: Then he said to me, Prophesy to the breath, Prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God, Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may come to life.
SPEAKER_01: So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they came to life, and stood on their feet an exceedingly great army.
SPEAKER_01: And again, the number here is going to be uh important here in a few minutes, so hang on to that.
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that we see is that when God spoke to Ezekiel and he said, Prophesy, it was Ezekiel who prophesied in agreement with the word of the Lord that began to declare life over these dry bones.
SPEAKER_01: God didn't say Ezekiel, step back and observe as I do this.
SPEAKER_01: He said, I want you to speak and declare and prophesy over these dry bones.
SPEAKER_01: One of the things I'm going to ask God when I get to heaven, and you may not wonder this, but I'm like, God, why did you choose to use humans?
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I look in the mirror and I'm like, God, there, there's, there's, there's a lot better options on the menu.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, you've got angels, right?
SPEAKER_01: You've got dogs.
SPEAKER_01: I think dogs might be more loyal.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: I'm joking at that point.
SPEAKER_01: I don't value humans above dogs, okay, uh, or dogs above humans.
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the the the thing is, is that God has chosen, even when he's acting on his behalf and in his name through Ezekiel, to partner with a loyal servant of his and uses the declaration and the prophecy of that servant to cause to come into effect the will and the purpose of God.
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's something that that it always humbles me and it always overwhelms me that God chooses to work through his people to accomplish his purpose.
SPEAKER_01: And so he said, I was prophesying, I prophesied as I was commanded, and there was a noise, and behold, a rattling.
SPEAKER_01: And so what he began to, he again on the day of Pentecost, right, there was a sound as of a mighty rushing wind, right?
SPEAKER_01: So the wind of Holy Spirit's blowing through, and he heard a noise and a rattling, and he saw this process beginning to reverse the curse of rebellion and sin on these skeletons, reversing the judgment of God.
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that this points out is that sometimes when God begins to work his purpose and his prophecy, it is a prophet, uh it's a process rather than instantaneous.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: So he saw the sinews, then he saw the flesh, then he saw the skin, but they were not yet breathing.
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that this passage teaches us is that sometimes even if God is working prophetically and miraculously in an eschatology and world-changing and fulfilling his promise, that sometimes there's still a step-by-step process in this because sometimes God is declaring his truth through his handiwork.
SPEAKER_01: God is declaring his truth through his process.
SPEAKER_01: God, because one of the things that that, again, I'm impatient at times on days ending in why.
SPEAKER_01: And so the the thing is, is I want I want to get to the end result, right?
SPEAKER_01: I I want to get to the payoff, right?
SPEAKER_01: I want to get to the end of the thing.
SPEAKER_01: And God, for all of his sovereign glory and wisdom, really loves the process.
SPEAKER_01: Can somebody say amen?
SPEAKER_01: And so he is showing here in Ezekiel the process because he wants us to understand that at every level, at every heart, every step, that he can counteract each individual impact of the curse of sin and rebellion.
SPEAKER_01: He wants us to see right down to the granular, cellular level that there is nothing that sin and rebellion and destruction of the curse can do in your life that God cannot reverse and overcome.
SPEAKER_01: And so the bones begin to connect, the flesh began to grow, the skin came on, and he said, But there was no breath in them.
SPEAKER_01: Then he said to me, Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, say to the breath, thus says the Lord God, come from the four winds, O breath.
SPEAKER_01: And the Hebrew word for breath and wind and Holy Spirit is ruach.
SPEAKER_01: Uh R-U-A-C-H, Ruach.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and so when you say the breath, right, when when you when you talk about God breathing over the face of the deep, the the spirit brooding over the that right, that's that's Ruach, the breath and the wind of God.
SPEAKER_01: And so call it come from the four winds, O breath, breathe on these slain, that they come to life.
SPEAKER_01: So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath came into them, so that they came to life and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
SPEAKER_01: And so I read that twice because I want you to really get the process.
SPEAKER_01: Now, again, when God created man in Genesis, right?
SPEAKER_01: He created formed man out of the dust of the earth, and then he breathed into him and created man a living soul.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: So there was the natural and then the spiritual creation.
SPEAKER_01: And so again, he's recapitulating that to say it doesn't matter how many that you violated the covenant of David, that you violated the covenant of Abraham, that you violated the covenant of Noah, it doesn't matter that you violated all these covenants.
SPEAKER_01: I can still take you back to the beginning and make you as I did in the beginning to recreate and make perfect, complete life in you again.
SPEAKER_01: And so, in verse eleven, then he said to me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel.
SPEAKER_01: Behold, they say, Our bones are dried up, our hope has perished, and we are completely cut off.
SPEAKER_01: Therefore prophesy and say to them, Thus says the Lord God, Behold, I will open up your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, my people, and I will bring you into the land of Israel.
SPEAKER_01: Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, my people, and I will put my spirit within you, and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land, and you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it, declares the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: So one of the really interesting pieces here is in verse 11, where he uses the phrase house of Israel.
SPEAKER_01: There are other phrases that Ezekiel uses and prophets use for the nation of Israel or the people of Israel, right?
SPEAKER_01: Or they'll they'll talk about the um uh the Israel as an entity, God's covenant people.
SPEAKER_01: But this this phrase that's translated, house of Israel, focuses on the fact that it is ethnic Israel, that it is the Israel of Jacob, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob's lineage.
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I point that out is because there are a lot of really wonderful, fabulous people who I respect and love who say that all of Ezekiel 37 is fulfilled in the church or fulfilled in Christ, and it has nothing to do with the children of Israel as a people.
SPEAKER_01: But this particular phrase really signifies that it has to do not with God's covenant people who are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
SPEAKER_01: And so the um, and I'm not gonna go into great detail because we've talked about that again in later weeks, um, but that's really that whole house of Israel.
SPEAKER_01: The other thing that, and again, we're gonna see this later on, is that Ezekiel was primarily talking to the people who had been carried off from the southern kingdom, the kingdom of Judah, who had who had maintained David's line and not the other ten tribes that had gone off with with um uh again with Israel and the northern tribes and had been conquered by Assyria.
SPEAKER_01: Uh their line of kings was considered to be illegitimate, right?
SPEAKER_01: They had fallen into gross idolatry, right, even far beyond what Judah had fallen into.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the Assyrians had taken them into captivity and basically did cultural genocide.
SPEAKER_01: They tried to completely displace them and tried to make them assimilate into Assyrian life so that the entirety of those ten tribes would just simply disappear from history.
SPEAKER_01: And so Judah and the people who were in exile in Ezekiel looked down on these folks because they had followed, right, false gods and idolatry and rebelled against the house of David, and they thought that they were somehow less.
SPEAKER_01: But this is really one of the big pieces where God says, not only is my covenant promised to those people who uh stayed faithful and true, but it's to the whole house of Israel, all twelve tribes.
SPEAKER_01: And so we'll see that later on in Ezekiel 37 as well.
SPEAKER_01: And so the um, and then God also says, I will open your graves, and I will cause you to come out and be, right, one nation on the land.
SPEAKER_01: And and again, this was a little bit of change of focus, right?
SPEAKER_01: Because the first part of the chapter was this valley of dry bones of people who weren't buried, who had broken covenant.
SPEAKER_01: But he was also speaking to the people who had, right, not broken the covenant and done their best to follow God and not done their best to be faithful.
SPEAKER_01: And he said, I'm not gonna leave you behind.
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna cause your graves to be opened, and you're gonna come inhabit the land too.
SPEAKER_01: And so the the um, because again, this this goes back right to the prodigal son, right?
SPEAKER_01: So these people who are covenant breakers, do they get a promise that we don't?
SPEAKER_01: But God say, No, I'm going to cause all of you the Israel to come back and be uh on the land, and I will put my spirit within you, and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land.
SPEAKER_01: Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it.
SPEAKER_01: The other thing that it this is talking about is again, there had come to this uh, and again, it's it's a it's a theme in Ezekiel, where people had thought that they had possessed the land, the holy land, the land aflowing with milk and honey, by their own power and by their own prowess, and they did not recognize that it was God's hand that had caused their blessings in abundance.
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things, the applications of that is is that again, we have to recognize even to this day that our blessings and our abundance and our success, right?
SPEAKER_01: Um, because again, all of us live better than the king of England lived 150 years ago.
SPEAKER_01: Every single one of us.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: Didn't have showers, didn't have cell phones, didn't have antibiotics, didn't have central heat and air, and you know, didn't have like, you know, pasteurized milk.
SPEAKER_01: Um and so um, and and so the the thing is is that we have to be careful that that we don't think we have done this by ourselves, but understand that the blessings that we have, even the basic stuff, even the ability to go to the doctor and get an antibiotic, that comes from God.
SPEAKER_01: And that blessing comes from God.
SPEAKER_01: And so the the and again, not trying to make people feel guilty, but just to be incredibly grateful for what God and give God incredible thanksgiving and praise, Lord, for the the fact that we're we're sitting in here in you know air-conditioned space and heated space with you know electronics and all of those kind of things in comfort on padded seats.
SPEAKER_01: How many of you grew up in churches with wooden pews?
SPEAKER_01: Who can say, Praise God for padded seats?
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: All right, so even thank you, Jesus, for padded seats, okay?
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so um let's go to verse 15.
SPEAKER_01: Then the word of the Lord came again to me, saying, And you, son of man, take for yourself one stick and write on it for Judah and for the sons of Israel, his companions.
SPEAKER_01: Then take another stick and write on it for Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and all the house of Israel, his companions.
SPEAKER_01: So again, these are two sticks.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna bore you with the long details of what those sticks were.
SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna assume they were two pieces of wood.
SPEAKER_01: And he said, I want you to take one for the southern kingdom, and I want you to take one for the northern kingdom, one for for um uh Judah, who was the dominant tribe, and one for Joseph through Ephraim, which is the dominant tribe in the north, and everybody who goes with them.
SPEAKER_01: So he was including all the other tribes that were under their influence.
SPEAKER_01: Then join verse 17, then join them for yourself, one to another, into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.
SPEAKER_01: When the sons of your people speak to you, saying, Will you not declare to us what you mean by these?
SPEAKER_01: Say to them, thus says the Lord God, Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions, and I will put them with it with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, they will be one in my hand.
SPEAKER_01: The sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes, and say to them, says, say to them, Thus says the Lord God, Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land, and I will make them one nation in the land on the mountains of Israel, and one king will be king for all of them, and they will no longer be two nations, and no longer be divided into two kingdoms, they will no longer defile themselves with their idols or with their detestable things, uh, and or with any of their transgressions, but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them, and they will be my people, and I will be their God.
SPEAKER_01: So what he's saying here is, Ezekiel, I want you to create a prophetic sign so that people can understand based on using physical objects.
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I love about God is very often he helps us to understand the spiritual using and interact with spiritual using physical things, right?
SPEAKER_01: So raising our hands in worship, right?
SPEAKER_01: Singing and giving praise to God, bending the knee to humble ourselves.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not really sure I completely understand humility, but I know how to bend a knee, right?
SPEAKER_01: And so the the that that's one of the reasons why God gives us these things like communion, right?
SPEAKER_01: The the body and the blood, the bread and the juice, because we understand about taking food into our bodies and consuming them and saying, I want something on the outside to be on the inside and become a part of me and build me from the inside out, right?
SPEAKER_01: Which is what food does.
SPEAKER_01: And so the the thing is, is very often God will use physical things, understandable things, to help us to understand complex spiritual dynamics.
SPEAKER_01: And so what he was doing with Ezekiel here was taking two sticks and mending them together to make one staff to join together something that didn't appear to go together, because again, the people of Israel, uh, the ten northern tribes of Ephraim had been taken by Assyria, dispersed, uh depopulated, forced to integrate into Assyrian society well over 100, 150, 200 years previously.
SPEAKER_01: So imagine that you had a group of people that had been dispossessed and scattered, right, in the year, you know, uh 1836, and then God said, Oh, I'm gonna gather all these people back together, right?
SPEAKER_01: That would be pretty hard to comprehend.
SPEAKER_01: And then also Israel and Judah hated each other.
SPEAKER_01: They fought wars, they they despised each other, they looked down upon each other, they had contempt for each other.
SPEAKER_01: And the the thing is, is God saying, I'm gonna heal those divisions and I'm gonna bring back together and I'm gonna hold together what humans couldn't do, and I'm gonna bring them together through my power and through my spirit.
SPEAKER_01: And so the the the and part of it is uh the division was is because even though they had idolatry in both kingdoms, they went after different idols, and so now they were having competition about which idol was the better idol.
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever been in those situations where people are competing about which wrong thing is better than the other wrong thing?
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: And so so that's where they were were were caught in.
SPEAKER_01: So again, we'll go to verse 24.
SPEAKER_01: My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd, and they will walk in my ordinances and keep my statutes and observe them.
SPEAKER_01: And they will live on the land that I gave to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers lived, and they will live on it, and they and their sons, and their sons' sons forever, and David my servant will be their prince.
SPEAKER_01: Notice he doesn't say David my servant will be their king.
SPEAKER_01: He said, David my servant will be their prince.
SPEAKER_01: It uses a different word than king there.
SPEAKER_01: And I will make a covenant of peace with them, and I will be an everlasting covenant with them, and I will place them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst.
SPEAKER_01: Some versions read over them forever.
SPEAKER_01: My dwelling place will also be with them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people, and the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel when my sanctuary is in their midst forever.
SPEAKER_01: Now, this is one of the really fun passages in Ezekiel where we get to guess what he meant, okay, or get to talk about what he meant.
SPEAKER_01: Um And so when we talk about Ezekiel, there and again I'm gonna present these as theories and let you pray and make up your mind as as we do in all of this.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because again, one of the things I love about Summit is we get to teach really interesting stuff and then trust you to be the adults who prays about and and understands what God is speaking to you and what you can accept or reject.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so the um so when it talks about David Ruling, where I understand that to be, or the the the son of David in the language of the Bible, and I'm not gonna go through this, but I understand that when it talks about David, it's talking about David as a type and a symbol, and and Jesus is going to eventually occupy in the millennium a Davidic throne to rule over that as the son of David.
SPEAKER_01: That's my understanding of this chapter.
SPEAKER_01: And so when we talk about the Davidic kingdom and the messianic kingdom and the kingdom of the Messiah, right, on the cross, Jesus instituted the kingdom of the Messiah, and we have all of those things.
SPEAKER_01: But when we talk about the Davidic kingdom or ruling as as the son of David, um, we're seeing that in the thousand-year reign because, right, God's going to pull all the the Israelites together, and again, there's going to be resurrection, there's going to be new life, all of those kind of things, and that that's going to be where that is is consummated.
SPEAKER_01: And then this Ezekiel 37 is where this is, is part of where this is prophesied.
SPEAKER_01: There are some other minority voices that I want you to make you aware of.
SPEAKER_01: There are some who believe that in the resurrection, David is going to be resurrected and he is going to serve as a regent on the throne over the children of Israel.
SPEAKER_01: I don't buy that view.
SPEAKER_01: I want you to be aware of that view because it can fit within the context of the passage.
SPEAKER_01: Now, again, do I think in the broader thing that that doesn't work?
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I don't want A, I want you to understand that I've I've taken a look at these other theories and evaluated them.
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why that I don't think that David is the subregae in the physical realm, because when you see all of the passages together that talk about David ruling, it's so intertwined with Messiah that you can't separate them.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: And so I could take you for another two hours through all those passages.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to do that, but when you see that intermixing, right, if you just read Ezekiel 37, you could say, just based on that one passage, you could you could you could believe that.
SPEAKER_01: When you take the scope of everything that's talked about, the son of David and the Davidic kingdom throughout all of Scripture and how the Messiah is interwoven into that, then you again, I find it more convincing that it's Jesus who's sitting on the Davidic throne.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, but I do want you to be aware that there are others out there who uh are dispensational and who are scholars who hold the other view.
SPEAKER_01: I just think they're wrong.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so uh, but I want you to be aware of that.
SPEAKER_01: And the the um other thing that I want you to to kind of get and and focus on this, right, is that God is going to gather them together, and then it's going to be, and their sons and their sons' sons.
SPEAKER_01: So this is something that happens in the course where normal life is still progressing.
SPEAKER_01: So this is not happening, right, in the new heaven and the new earth.
SPEAKER_01: This is not happening in heaven, right?
SPEAKER_01: This is something that's happening where people are still having children and grandchildren.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: And the um other thing that I want to point out is that this is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant.
SPEAKER_01: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, right?
SPEAKER_01: That they are going to possess this land forever.
SPEAKER_01: And if we go back to the beginning of the chapter, remember all the multitudes, right?
SPEAKER_01: This great, tremendous army of dry bones, right?
SPEAKER_01: When God prophesied to Abraham, he said, I'm going to make your descendants like the sand by the seashore, too numerous to count.
SPEAKER_01: And they're going to dwell in the land in eternity, in perpetuity.
SPEAKER_01: And so what he's prophesying as Ezekiel is I'm not going to let the Assyrians win.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to let the Babylonians win.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to let the Persians win.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to let the Egyptians win.
SPEAKER_01: If you understand, right, we've gone through this and we started right in Ezekiel 30 and talked a little bit, right?
SPEAKER_01: We've had the judgment of the Egyptians, we've had the judgments of the Assyrians, right?
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and we've had all of these judgments, and again, we've had the judgment of the Edomites, right?
SPEAKER_01: And all of those kind of things.
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, how does this all fit together?
SPEAKER_01: And what it's saying is God is saying, you have just tried to destroy Assyria through genocide, through depopulation, through forced assimilation, right?
SPEAKER_01: Persia, you've carried them off, right?
SPEAKER_01: Babylon, you've oppressed them.
SPEAKER_01: Egypt, you've oppressed them, tried to keep them in captivity and make them your slaves.
SPEAKER_01: God is not mocked.
SPEAKER_01: He will be vindicated, and he is saying, it doesn't matter how much you've tried to destroy them and scatter them across the earth, I will fulfill my covenant.
SPEAKER_01: And so, Assyria, you're not going to win.
SPEAKER_01: Babylon, you're not going to win.
SPEAKER_01: Egypt, you're not going to win.
SPEAKER_01: Persia, you're not going to win.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why he's talking about the whole house of Israel, because all these empires did their very best to scatter and destroy Israel.
SPEAKER_01: And he is saying, This is my covenant people and my covenant land, and I am not going to let you win.
SPEAKER_01: And so when we talk about that, right, he is saying, I have established the Davidic line, and that's not going to be destroyed.
SPEAKER_01: I have established my people in my land, and that is not going to be destroyed.
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the reasons why we take the view of the end times that we do is because we believe that God is going to fulfill every single one of his covenants, and all of these evil empires that were ruled over by idols and false gods are not going to defeat the purpose and the plan of God in any instance, in any promise.
SPEAKER_01: So that's the reason why we believe those things are going to come to pass in the future is that God is going to triumph over every army.
SPEAKER_01: Because again, in life, sometimes people will say, you know, sometimes being a Christian, it seems like you lose sometimes because you're acting in a Christian way, right?
SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes people who are aggressive or lying or cheating seem to prosper in the short term.
SPEAKER_01: Shake your heads, yes, because you know it's true.
SPEAKER_01: And so the thing is, is that, but God is saying, even though things appear in the short term one way, I am guaranteeing that in the end result that that is not going to be the case.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what the demonstration again, and you will know that I am God.
SPEAKER_01: You will know that I am the righteous judge, and there is justice in the world and justice in my kingdom, because in the end, I am not going to let evil win in any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_01: We might have to wait, we might have to tarry, we might have to endure, we might have to suffer for a little while.
SPEAKER_01: But he is saying, in the end, my people, my plan, my covenant, my love, my purpose, my plan is going to triumph in every detail.
SPEAKER_01: So that's what he says, you know.
SPEAKER_01: If you've lost houses or lands, positions or titles, what does he say in the scripture?
SPEAKER_01: He's gonna repay it and multiply it.
SPEAKER_01: I want you to think about everything, every tiny little thing that you've lost for being a Christian.
SPEAKER_01: Now, again, there's abundant blessings in following Christ, and my worst day with Jesus is better than my best day without him.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, but there is a cost to being a Christian in every society, and God is writing all those down in the book of life.
SPEAKER_01: Every sacrifice, everything you've given up, everything that you did, everything.
SPEAKER_01: And he's going, not one little bit of that is going to be forgotten or unrewarded.
SPEAKER_01: Because the enemy will get in and he will tell you, oh, God doesn't keep track of that stuff.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: God is like Assyria, Persia, Egypt, Babylon.
SPEAKER_01: Not only am I going to put them in the land, I'm going to put them in the land like I promised it to Abraham, and I'm going to put the descendant of the same line of kings on the throne, right?
SPEAKER_01: And they're going to follow my laws and regulations because I'm going to put my spirit in the heart.
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to have everything, every single drop that I have coming to me, I am going to get it.
SPEAKER_01: And everything that you have coming to you, you are going to get it because God is the kind of God who makes sure that he keeps his covenant promises down to the smallest detail.
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that's interesting is that in verse 26 it says, I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it will be an everlasting covenant with them, and I will place them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forever.
SPEAKER_01: My dwelling place also will be with them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people, and the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel when my sanctuary is in their midst forever.
SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the things that we're not going to get to in Ezekiel is chapter 40 and beyond is a really intricate description of a future temple.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that people very often ask who criticize the idea that this is a future temple is if we have Jesus who atoned for our sins, why do we need a temple?
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that we want to understand is during the thousand-year millennial reign, there will be people who love the Lord and are gods, but there will also be people who are not Christian and not devoted to God.
SPEAKER_01: And we struggle with that a little bit.
SPEAKER_01: You know, like if God is building, right, the we see all these miracles, and we see the tribulation, and we see, right, all of this, and we see the thousand-year reign, and God's building a temple, and he's dwelling with his people, and God's presence is there.
SPEAKER_01: How could anybody reject God in that setting?
SPEAKER_01: But the scripture says that that's going to happen.
SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you exactly, I've seen it in real life.
SPEAKER_01: I've talked to people and I've been talking to them about things of the Spirit, and God, I'll go, do you believe the Bible's real?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Do you believe that Jesus was a real historical person?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Do you believe in the resurrection?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_01: Are you a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: No.
SPEAKER_01: Why?
SPEAKER_01: I'm just not ready yet.
SPEAKER_01: Has anybody ever had that happen to them?
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: Or I just can't accept it, or I just can't give myself over.
SPEAKER_01: And I've had this conversation more than once in life.
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you believe everything in the Bible is true.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: Now maybe they didn't believe Jonah and the fish, you know, okay, but but they believed all the core essential stuff, right?
SPEAKER_01: They believe that God created the world.
SPEAKER_01: They believe that Jesus died, that he paid for sin.
SPEAKER_01: They believe all of it.
SPEAKER_01: And you're miserable.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm miserable.
SPEAKER_01: And you know God's working on you.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do.
SPEAKER_01: So do you want to get saved?
SPEAKER_01: No.
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just not ready yet.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's mind-blowing to me.
SPEAKER_01: But they exist.
SPEAKER_01: And so, and I follow people on social media all the time who say, I'm an atheist or an agnostic.
SPEAKER_01: I think America would be a much better nation if everybody would go to church.
SPEAKER_01: So there are people on social media who are atheists, agnostics, Jewish, right?
SPEAKER_01: Very prominent names that you know.
SPEAKER_01: Ben Shapiro is one, right?
SPEAKER_01: He's Jewish and he encourages everybody to go to church.
unknown: Right?
SPEAKER_01: The Christian church.
SPEAKER_01: Now he's not saved, but he's encouraging everybody to go to a Christian, Bible-believing church.
SPEAKER_01: That's what he says.
SPEAKER_01: I want you to go to a Bible-believing church.
SPEAKER_01: Are you a Christian?
SPEAKER_01: No.
SPEAKER_01: How does that make any sense?
SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, is that people can recognize something as true and still be in rebellion because that was the original fall of Satan.
SPEAKER_01: He had no doubt about who God was.
SPEAKER_01: He had no doubt about God's purity.
SPEAKER_01: He had no doubt about God's identity or his character, and he still rebelled.
SPEAKER_01: Adam and Eve were in the garden.
SPEAKER_01: They were in this super fantastic garden, and they could eat of every tree in the garden.
SPEAKER_01: And they were walking in the garden with God.
SPEAKER_01: And they still went out and grabbed the fruit.
SPEAKER_01: And so we have to understand that even though God's presence and his temple is going to be dwelling in the millennium, there are still going to be people who go, oh yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_01: But they're still going to need a way to operate in God's kingdom without incurring judgment.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why you have the law and the temple for those who are not under grace, who reject God's grace, but who are in a world governed by God's economy.
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01: Because the law was for people, right?
SPEAKER_01: So that they could occupy sacred space and be purified and not be judged.
SPEAKER_01: And so when you have the temple in the millennium, it's not so that those who are under grace, it's for those who have rejected grace, but still don't want to be under God's judgment.
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01: And so when you see the sacrifices, right, it's to cleanse from impurity and uncleanness and purification and all those kind of things.
SPEAKER_01: And so when you because when you take a look at Ezekiel's temple, and we're not going to get into this in detail, but I did want to talk about it some, every element of the tabernacle and the temple of Moses and Solomon are not present in the Ezekiel temple because things have changed because of the cross of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: So again, when people say, oh, it's a duplicate or it's incomplete, no, it's a different temple for a different economy and a different thing.
SPEAKER_01: And so it's a place for God's habitation to dwell on the earth with his people, but it has a different function, right, than the temple of Moses or Solomon.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's the reason why it's it's different.
SPEAKER_01: The other thing is, is one of the some of the critics are, right?
SPEAKER_01: Well, there's no command to build this temple.
SPEAKER_01: It's my view that God will build this temple or that he will be the architect of this, because again, there are certain elements in the description.
SPEAKER_01: It's more of a floor plan than a complete set of building instructions, like you get that was given to Moses, for example.
SPEAKER_01: And so the thing is that we have to understand it's a different temple in a different way than just simply trying to recreate what was in the tabernacle or in the temple of Solomon.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: And so the the thing is, is that it was, but it remains a place where God can be at peace with his people, and his habitation will be in their midst forever.
SPEAKER_01: Now, for people who are under grace as well, right?
SPEAKER_01: We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: He abides and dwells in us, but he's talking about dwelling and abiding among an ethnic people in a land, and so he's doing that geographically as well as in our spirits.
SPEAKER_01: Because God not only wants to take possession of our hearts and our spirits, he wants to take possession of the whole earth because he created it and he called it good and it belongs to him.
SPEAKER_01: Every last grain of dirt belongs to God.
SPEAKER_01: And then verse 28, and the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, who sets Israel apart for a holy purpose.
SPEAKER_01: That's what sanctification is.
SPEAKER_01: When my sanctuary is in their midst forever.
SPEAKER_01: And again, one of the biggest testimonies that God's people are still God's people and God's prophecy and word is true, is how much the world concentrates on focuses on a country of a few million people that's smaller than the land area of East Tennessee.
SPEAKER_01: It is the focus of so many countries and nations, right?
SPEAKER_01: The focus of so many.
SPEAKER_01: Again, you this this if you're if you're online and X, right, there are people who who are obsessed with Israel and denigrate Israel nonstop while saying you're not allowed to talk about Israel.
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm pretty sure 49 of your last 50 podcasts were talking about Israel and you're not in you know in prison yet.
SPEAKER_01: Um but oh nobody can talk about Israel.
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna talk about Israel for the next four hours.
SPEAKER_01: Um and so again, and every time you see this with this Israel hate take over, this anti-Semitism, right, the brain rot sets in and then they become crazy on all sorts of different stuff.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: There's one very prominent voice that used, you know, has has been to the White House, right, and just had someone on on again this last week saying, you know, the Bible is socialist.
SPEAKER_01: Now they didn't believe this five years ago, but they went off the anti-Semit Semitic deep end, and now they're they're promoting, you know, communism.
SPEAKER_01: And so the the thing is that the fact that the whole world is focused on this tiny little country that's smaller than East Tennessee, right?
SPEAKER_01: God is saying, I'm gonna show you that I am God, and I'm gonna show you they're my people.
SPEAKER_01: When I gather them, despite all of the antisemitism, despite the Nazis, despite the Assyrians, despite you know, the Iranians trying to build nuclear bombs to wipe them off the map, my people are going to survive, and I'm going to demonstrate to you that all the demons in hell cannot stop the promise and the covenant of God, and you will know that I am God.
SPEAKER_01: Alright, questions.
SPEAKER_01: Comments?
SPEAKER_01: You weren't here last week.
SPEAKER_01: I didn't get any questions.
SPEAKER_01: I felt abandoned, so I'll double up.
SPEAKER_02: Um have you been to Israel?
SPEAKER_02: I have not.
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: Uh because you made you made uh the comment that all the whole world focuses upon Israel.
SPEAKER_02: And um, I've just seen pictures and listened to people's experiences as they went over there.
SPEAKER_02: And um it's kind of strange to me that um when the children of Israel came out of Egypt and God took them to Promised Land, it was such a great land filled of milk and honey and meadows, and uh just a really um fertile place.
SPEAKER_02: And it seems like today's Israel is not that fertile.
SPEAKER_02: It's not uh I think they do they do produce a lot of stuff, but it doesn't seem like it's uh prime real estate, as I guess what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like really kind of crazy why the whole world is focused upon you know this little nation of rocks, basically.
SPEAKER_02: The only other reason could be is because it is God's you know um territory, it's God's nation.
SPEAKER_01: And and I know you've got another one, but uh the the thing is that if you look at all the nations around them, they're all in poverty, unless they have oil, right?
SPEAKER_01: So the people who are living one mile across the border are living in third world conditions, and the people of Israel have one of the most technologically advanced societies, and through desalinization, which is taking salt out of seawater and creating fresh water out of it, that Israel has created uh out of swamps and desert and and really land that nobody really wanted other than the holy cities, they've they've created really an oasis there uh that's pr productive.
SPEAKER_01: But like you said, apart from the spiritual comp, you know, there's there's a lot more desirable land as far as just real estate geography than that is, and so uh yeah, it is really amazing.
SPEAKER_03: Now I could be mistaken on this, but uh we we on the first part first part of the chapter here, talking about dry bones.
SPEAKER_03: Did you or did you not say that you were gonna let us know how many dry bones there was?
SPEAKER_03: Did I hear you say that?
SPEAKER_01: I didn't say I would let you know how many.
SPEAKER_01: I would say that it would represent the entirety of the promise and the covenant to Abraham of all of this exceedingly great progeny.
SPEAKER_01: So God was was foretelling, because he promised Abraham that his his his right his his seed would be like the stars of the heaven, right?
SPEAKER_01: And so the thing is, is he was he's prophesying, I'm gonna make that happen in the future, that they won't be able to be counted, because in the entire history of Israel, they were able to do a census and count.
SPEAKER_01: And so I believe that that it's gonna be so many and so abundant that it's gonna be beyond the ability to reckon.
SPEAKER_02: Um just out of curiosity, timeline, is uh Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and even Joel, they're all talking about restoration of Israel.
SPEAKER_02: Are all those guys living at the same time?
SPEAKER_02: Um are they all in captivity together at this time, or are they from different little bit areas?
SPEAKER_01: I will admit to you that years and dates are my weak point.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll I'll say that uh as a matter of fact, uh Nancy and I are date flexible when we celebrate birthdays and anniversaries.
SPEAKER_01: Um and and it's true.
SPEAKER_01: Uh I think it took us three years to remember which day we were married on.
SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh I kept looking at the marriage license.
SPEAKER_01: Was that January 2nd or 3rd?
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, and so um I do know that that Jeremiah was a contemporary.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know about Joel.
SPEAKER_01: Um when I mean contemporary, I mean roughly contemporary within the same general message is very similar.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01: And and uh um uh one of the the the debates is did they have access to each other's materials, right?
SPEAKER_01: And so um uh but to be honest, I don't have that on the top of my head.
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure Ryan can answer that, but uh do you want to answer that, Ryan?
SPEAKER_04: Okay, well if you're looking, then you can have it after me.
SPEAKER_04: Um when I went to Israel, I was amazed at what I learned.
SPEAKER_04: And one of the things is it it is an extremely fertile country.
SPEAKER_04: The produce is by far greater than what you find here.
SPEAKER_04: And uh it it's it's amazing the the food, the produce is incredibly delicious.
SPEAKER_04: Um so it's different, and then you hear uh of all the of all the inventions and all of the good scientific things that's coming out of Israel.
SPEAKER_04: God is shining a light on Israel.
SPEAKER_04: This is my land, these are my people.
SPEAKER_04: He really is doing that.
SPEAKER_04: So for people who think maybe God is through with Israel, they're wrong.
SPEAKER_04: Because they're wrong in the word, and they're also wrong in the fact that when you go there, you see you can physically see the hand of God on these people.
SPEAKER_01: And just again, in the positive sense, yes, um, because again, as far as functional air force, right, Israel probably has a top five Air Force in the world, probably number three, uh again, because we've seen how well the Chinese stuff and Russian stuff has worked recently, um, which is not well.
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and so again, imagine somebody the the size of East Tennessee having six nuclear capable subs and one of the best air forces in the world.
SPEAKER_01: And again, Israeli technology is is cutting edge on on so many levels, right?
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, but on the negative side, if you go and you count the number of resolutions that the UN has passed condemning somebody, right, that uh you see a hundred against Israel versus the worst, right?
SPEAKER_01: There's far more uh uh condemning Israel than say condemning the Rwanda genocide, which killed hundreds of thousands of people in a short time, right?
SPEAKER_01: More than the number that that condemned Iran for killing about 32,000 protesters in a very short uh period of time.
SPEAKER_01: And so you see that fascination in that lock.
SPEAKER_01: And so the thing is that even the atheists and the agnostics and the unbelievers are fixated on Israel when there's no logical or rational reason for that to be.
SPEAKER_01: And so you see the blessings of God on one, which really just drives those folks nuts, by the way.
SPEAKER_01: It kind of makes me happy.
SPEAKER_01: And um I know it shouldn't, but it does.
SPEAKER_01: And and so, um, and then and then you see the negative side as well, where all the world is still focused on Israel, even though it shouldn't be that significant the way that humans comprehend it, but it really is.
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing what God is doing.
SPEAKER_01: Sylvia.
SPEAKER_06: I have a Schofield Bible, and at the beginning, the head of each um chapter or each book, it has a little description of when it was written.
SPEAKER_06: So I just looked it up real quick.
SPEAKER_06: And Ezekiel was written in the 6th century B.C.
SPEAKER_06: Uh Jeremiah was written in the 7th century BC, and Joel was written in the 8th or 9th.
SPEAKER_06: So within a couple hundred years of each other.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, very good.
SPEAKER_02: I just got one more question.
SPEAKER_02: Praise God.
SPEAKER_02: Um back to Ben Shapiro.
SPEAKER_02: Um you made the comment that some people, you know, even though they see Christianity or whatever, or have uh understanding about the Bible, they believe in all that, but they still don't want Jesus, and it and so there's uh uh a reason for the law and uh how the kingdom is set up when Christ comes back.
SPEAKER_02: But with um people like Ben Shapiro, um, which he's a Jew, is it is it is it just I think he sees the goodness of people because of Christianity, and that's why he encourages people to go to church, wants people to go to church, but he himself still, you know, will not um, like you say, still not a believer.
SPEAKER_02: Is it is it just that simple that people just don't down in the bottom of their hearts still just don't want Christ?
SPEAKER_02: Or is it possibly could it just be uh in the case of Ben Shapiro where Jesus is still that stumbling block, you know, to the Jews, uh where they still they still think of him as the imposter.
SPEAKER_02: Um what is your opinion on that?
SPEAKER_01: I I think and I and again I haven't heard Shapiro at Lent on this, so I'm I'm sp I'm guessing, but I I think it's more the stumbling block piece with with Shapiro.
SPEAKER_01: Um I think though for a lot of people who have grown up in church who have grown up knowing the Word of God and have called themselves Christians, it's the first piece, right?
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it really is about who's going to be the Lord of my life.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's the the primary piece for a lot of people that you see.
SPEAKER_01: And in Shapiro's case, I think that he he still I think that part and again this is based on very limited information, that part of it is he's not convinced about the historicity uh of the resurrection and those kind of things.
SPEAKER_01: Um but I think the other thing is is that he feels like he would be betraying his heritage and his culture and his history, and so he sees it in world historical and and political form.
SPEAKER_01: And so again, that's just a limited pure guess.
SPEAKER_01: I could be a hundred percent wrong on that, but that's just from a very limited bit I've heard that that it's much more about that's his identity.
SPEAKER_01: And so, but again, when we talk about the larger picture, right?
SPEAKER_01: Um have you ever met somebody who said, I'm not gonna be told what to do by anybody?
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: Um the uh uh the re I'm sorry, you used to be that kind of person.
SPEAKER_01: Um Praise God for his grace, right?
SPEAKER_01: And and um, you know, that that's the reason why King Henry VIII broke off from the Catholic Church.
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't because he disbelieved Catholic doctrine, he just didn't want to be told what to do.
SPEAKER_01: And so the um the the thing is is that when it comes down to it, that's the ultimate difference is can you bend the knee and humble yourself before God as Lord and Creator and God?
SPEAKER_01: Or must we as individuals be the God on our throne?
SPEAKER_01: And again, it all it all comes back as Ryan says to idolatry.
SPEAKER_01: Who's gonna be the God on the throne?
SPEAKER_01: Who's gonna be the person at the head?
SPEAKER_01: And so that's where we see this this happening.
SPEAKER_00: And then Ryan's got I just want to bring out something about Ben Shapiro.
SPEAKER_00: One thing you gotta remember about Shapiro is he is an American Jew.
SPEAKER_00: And you have to take it from the understanding that he sees it from the political and the financial gain of Christianity.
SPEAKER_00: If you go to Israel, Jews despise and hate American Christians, but Christians in general.
SPEAKER_00: But they despise even more American Christians.
SPEAKER_00: Even though American Christians are the ones going and putting money in their economy, they're evil in the eyes of the Jews because of the Messiah on that side of it.
SPEAKER_00: So Shapiro, the reason his views are what they are is he's raised with an American point of view.
SPEAKER_00: Whereas in the kind of the hierarchy of Jews in Israel, they see Christians as evil, they see Islam as evil, they see the wicked of the wicked messianic Jews, and they won't even acknowledge them as Jews.
SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, if you're a Jew that becomes born again, they're the scum between the toes.
SPEAKER_00: That's the lowest of the low.
SPEAKER_00: But if you had somebody like Shapiro, he would embrace a messianic Jew.
SPEAKER_00: But that's the Americanized goggles that Shapiro is wearing, and that's very important when you're looking at this from a global standpoint, because whether we like it or not, the American culture has impacted um traditional ideas, whether it's Irish, whether it's Jew or uh Italian, whatever the case may be.
SPEAKER_00: And that's why Shapiro has a little bit of a different view on this, but also um it, you know, he's very outspoken that the hankup is he just can't buy into the resurrection of it.
SPEAKER_00: So, but it's that's one thing we have to keep in mind.
SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
SPEAKER_01: And and the the other thing is is is that I would also say that we have to be aware in the American church how much American culture evangelizes American culture, right?
SPEAKER_01: As much as it changes Ben Shapiro, it can also change us.
SPEAKER_01: And so, um, and so and that's that's a great point because it is a vastly different thing when you go overseas.
SPEAKER_01: But the the the other thing is is that because one of the things that we struggle with is God saying, I'm going to do what I said I'm going to do, and the Assyrians and the Persians and the Egyptians are not going to win.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: It's like our American culture now is that can't everybody win?
SPEAKER_01: Can't we all get a participation trophy?
SPEAKER_01: Let's give everybody a ribbon, you know, and God's like, no, I'm going to be triumphant.
SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes we struggle with that part of God.
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we struggle with the part of God that says, right, that that he is angry and wrathful and immorality and idolatry.
SPEAKER_01: And so we we struggle with those kind of things.
SPEAKER_01: And so again, and and an excellent point about Ben Shapiro and also at about how great a miracle God is going to do to turn their hearts towards Him and the Messiah completely when they hate it uh hate anything that's Jewish and Christian together.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's going to be amazing.
SPEAKER_01: Any other questions, comments, complaints?
SPEAKER_03: I just have a quick story.
SPEAKER_03: I had a friend of mine, his name was David Abraham.
SPEAKER_03: Uh his name originally was Abram, and his dad changed it when he came from Israel to Abraham.
SPEAKER_03: David was not David when he walked when he went to his parents' house in New York, he had to wear the little beanie.
SPEAKER_03: He wasn't allowed to mention the name of Jesus or nothing.
SPEAKER_03: And uh his father got sick.
SPEAKER_03: David flew to New York and was sitting there beside his dad's deathbed and said, Dad, give me five minutes.
SPEAKER_03: Just five minutes.
SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you about Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: Make a long story short, he led into the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: Praise God.
SPEAKER_03: His wife came in a little while later, and David walked out of the room.
SPEAKER_03: And when David came back in the room, his dad had passed away.
SPEAKER_03: And his mom said, David, what did you say to your dad before he left here?
SPEAKER_03: Because he left here with a peace, with the joy.
SPEAKER_03: He wasn't, he wasn't crying.
SPEAKER_03: He was he had a smile on his face.
SPEAKER_03: What did you say to him?
SPEAKER_03: He says, Well, Mom, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_03: And let and led his mom to the Lord at the same time.
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
SPEAKER_01: Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_01: All right.
SPEAKER_01: That's a great story to end on.
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you guys so much.