SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Summit Church podcast.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us as we share weekly sermons and teachings from Summit Church in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
SPEAKER_00: Our prayer is that today's message encourages your faith and helps you grow in your relationship with Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Check out our website at summitchurchtn.com.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, and we pray this message encourages you today.
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about Revelation chapter 11.
SPEAKER_02: This is going to be dealing with the two witnesses and the seventh trumpet.
SPEAKER_02: Revelation chapter 11, the purpose is that it stands on one of the most remarkable and yet often debated chapters in the entire book.
SPEAKER_02: It shifts our attention to Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_02: It introduces the mysterious ministry of the two witnesses.
SPEAKER_02: It reveals God's preservation in the midst of judgment and cumulates with sounding of the seventh trumpet.
SPEAKER_02: This chapter is going to remind us that even in the darkest days of human history, God preserves what belongs to him.
SPEAKER_02: God raises up faithful witnesses.
SPEAKER_02: God vindicates his servants.
SPEAKER_02: And God's kingdom ultimately triumphs.
SPEAKER_02: The overall theme of this chapter is though the world continues to reject God's message and oppose his servants, God's purposes cannot be stopped.
SPEAKER_02: His witness cannot be silenced until the work is complete, and his kingdom will reign forever.
SPEAKER_02: Revelation eleven and verse one.
SPEAKER_02: And someone said, Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship in it.
SPEAKER_02: So John right out of the bat is given a very peculiar instruction.
SPEAKER_02: John, I want you to measure the temple.
SPEAKER_02: Such an odd thing.
SPEAKER_02: In scripture, measuring, when we look in throughout the entire scripture, measuring has often been linked with ownership or protection, preservation, and divine authority.
SPEAKER_02: Just like the fact that the scripture says God knows every number of the hair on our head, we also would understand that God knows every dimension that belongs to him.
SPEAKER_02: It would be safe to say that nothing escapes him.
SPEAKER_02: So much so, if we remember all the way into the tabernacle of Moses, he was given measurements to build or construct.
SPEAKER_02: In Noah's Ark, he was given measurements.
SPEAKER_02: There are similar passages concerning the reed.
SPEAKER_02: In Ezekiel 40 through chapter 43, a future temple is measured.
SPEAKER_02: In Zechariah 2, Jerusalem is measured.
SPEAKER_02: And eventually we're going to get to Revelation 21, where New Jerusalem is measured.
SPEAKER_02: In each case, measurement signifies that God's sovereignty is claiming it, the ownership of it.
SPEAKER_02: God measures, possibly from what we understand, because he possesses all authority.
SPEAKER_02: And because he establishes boundaries.
SPEAKER_02: Even as judgment is unfolding, we understand that God is still in complete control.
SPEAKER_02: What God measures, he claims.
SPEAKER_02: What God claims, he preserves.
SPEAKER_02: According to His purposes.
SPEAKER_02: So what exactly is this temple?
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a couple of views that everybody would debate, so let's just go through them here.
SPEAKER_02: One view is that it is the church.
SPEAKER_02: Some interpret this temple to be symbolic.
SPEAKER_02: In other words, when it's mentioned in temple, um Paul, John is using an allegory.
SPEAKER_02: Now, the first thing would be why would he use an allegory to a temple?
SPEAKER_02: Well, it was also Paul, that's why I got ahead of myself, who said, We are the temple of God.
SPEAKER_02: So we have to kind of remember that.
SPEAKER_02: In Ephesians 2, 19 through 21, Paul wrote, You are being built together into a dwelling of God.
SPEAKER_02: 1 Peter 2 and 5, Peter wrote, You also as living stones.
SPEAKER_02: So some conclude that the temple represents the church.
SPEAKER_02: Now, let's take a step back just for a second.
SPEAKER_02: If it is, because we're we're we're not, we're just kind of walking things out, if there has been a pre-Trib Rapture, this would too make sense because we're not quite at the middle, we're close to the middle, but we're definitely not at the end on that ideology.
SPEAKER_02: But there are some things that challenges the view of the temple being, the church.
SPEAKER_02: Number one, there's a detailed reference called the altar.
SPEAKER_02: Then there's the detail of worshipers, then there's the detail of the outer court, and even a detail that we'll see Gentiles trampling the city.
SPEAKER_02: These details would suggest that this is more than just something symbolizing the church.
SPEAKER_02: Another viewpoint is that it is a literal future temple.
SPEAKER_02: Although people want to debate both sides, I will say here, for me, this makes the most sense.
SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about the possibility of a future temple here.
SPEAKER_02: Now we know, or let me back up, you may not know, there is an active group, and there has been an active group for several years, even decades.
SPEAKER_02: One that is one of the most proficient groups is called the Temple Institute.
SPEAKER_02: And their assignment is to rebuild a future temple.
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that when you can you can actually go and go to the website, get information.
SPEAKER_02: I I had a crazy idea several years ago, and I found a phone number and called, and they actually talked to me.
SPEAKER_02: And it was fun.
SPEAKER_02: It was a great conversation.
SPEAKER_02: They're very open about what they're doing.
SPEAKER_02: They're not hiding anything, they're open about it.
SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting to see how far back when I had spoken to one of them on the phone, they had just discovered the blue dye of the priestly garments.
SPEAKER_02: The blue dye comes from a specific type of um, it's a a shell fish, not a shellfish, but a um like a snail, kind of, in that sense.
SPEAKER_02: But it it had been missing for hundreds of years, and out of nowhere it appeared in the ocean.
SPEAKER_02: They found it and they were able to make this blue dye.
SPEAKER_02: There are preparations right now where priests are being trained.
SPEAKER_02: There have been the creation of temple instruments, and they're even walking through sacrificial procedures.
SPEAKER_02: Now, if you've heard the terminology about the red heifer, um, we've had that, or not we, that's been created for several years now.
SPEAKER_02: And Auburn University and the University of Texas both have a big hand in that.
SPEAKER_02: So, once again, the SEC is leading the charge.
SPEAKER_02: Now, while many Jews have no interest in rebuilding the temple, there are dedicated groups that are actively pursuing it.
SPEAKER_02: Christians recognize that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system.
SPEAKER_02: In John 19 and 30, he gave us the words, it is finished.
SPEAKER_02: Now, it's not Jesus, and I know you probably heard this, but let's just remind, it's not Jesus, just Jesus just saying, okay, the crucifixion's over and I'm going to die, and let's wrap this up.
SPEAKER_02: No, it is finished was a priestly decoration.
SPEAKER_02: The high priest, when the sacrificial offering was given and it was received, the high priest would say, It is finished.
SPEAKER_02: We know that the cross has accomplished what sacrifices never fully could achieve.
SPEAKER_02: Prophecy reminds us that God's word unfolds exactly as He has spoken it.
SPEAKER_02: Jesus Christ is the final sacrifice for sin.
SPEAKER_02: Yet prophecy also indicates a future temple will play a role in end time events.
SPEAKER_02: Revelation 11 and 2.
SPEAKER_02: And leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations, and they will tread underfoot the holy city for forty-two months.
SPEAKER_02: Now, here's not another kind of clue right here that this is not representing the church, although I'm not going to discredit the concept.
SPEAKER_02: You know how we've been doing this, we've always been said there's always a possibility of some things.
SPEAKER_02: But there is another clue here.
SPEAKER_02: When it says the holy city, what are we talking about exactly?
SPEAKER_02: Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_02: So we're actually seeing something here that is identifying a location specifically.
SPEAKER_02: So John is told to leave out the court.
SPEAKER_02: The outer court's been given over to the nations, the Gentiles, and Jerusalem is going to be trampled for 42 months.
SPEAKER_02: 42 months equals 1,260 days.
SPEAKER_02: Or three and one half years.
SPEAKER_02: The period likely corresponds to the final half of Daniel's 70th week.
SPEAKER_02: What we or you may commonly hear is that final part of the tribulation period.
SPEAKER_02: When it says that there would be trampling or tread on Jerusalem, that phrase means contempt.
SPEAKER_02: It means domination and oppression.
SPEAKER_02: Jerusalem will become the focal point of unimaginable, untrying to think of a different word.
SPEAKER_02: We can't comprehend how the conflict is fully going to be, but there's going to be a lot of focus there.
SPEAKER_02: Even when evil is going to appear dominant, we have to remember that God has already determined the limits of evil.
SPEAKER_02: Verses 3 through 6, and I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
SPEAKER_02: These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
SPEAKER_02: And if anyone desires to harm them, fire proceeds out of their mouth and devours their enemies.
SPEAKER_02: And if anyone would desire to harm them in this manner, he must be killed.
SPEAKER_02: These have the power to shut up the sky in order that rain may not fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to smite the earth with every plague as often as they desire.
SPEAKER_02: Well, these two sound awesome.
SPEAKER_02: Minister for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of an interesting timeline, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02: We know by verses three through six that they are prophetic.
SPEAKER_02: They are obviously powerful.
SPEAKER_02: Fire comes out of their mouth.
SPEAKER_02: They can stop the rain.
SPEAKER_02: And I love this word.
SPEAKER_02: You know, I use a New American standard, but um it may or may not be in the translation.
SPEAKER_02: I love that it says here to smite the earth.
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
SPEAKER_02: There's something just cool about that image in my mind, smite.
SPEAKER_02: So, but they're also clothed in sackcloth, which is interesting because scripturally, sackcloth represents mourning, repentance, and humility.
SPEAKER_02: So, what do we think their message is going to be?
SPEAKER_02: If we were just to look at that in the natural, that kind of looks like doom, gloom, despair, and agony, right?
SPEAKER_02: But their message is going to be repent.
SPEAKER_02: That's the message.
SPEAKER_02: Now, what's interesting is it mentions that they are the two olive trees and the two lampstands.
SPEAKER_02: The energy comes from Zechariah chapter four.
SPEAKER_02: Oil flowed continually into the lamps.
SPEAKER_02: That picture alone reveals to us that it was continually empowered by Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02: Now, just we'll go ahead and ask this question.
SPEAKER_02: Why does it mention two olive trees and two lampstands?
SPEAKER_02: Why not one olive tree and why not one lampstand?
SPEAKER_02: Well, somebody would say there's two of them.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but couldn't two represent one?
SPEAKER_02: Why does it have to be two olive trees and two lampstands?
SPEAKER_02: Got something?
SPEAKER_02: Hang on, I'm coming to you.
SPEAKER_06: I was just wondering, Jews and Gentiles.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, she said, Jews and Gentiles.
SPEAKER_02: Why would you automatically think Jews and Gentiles?
SPEAKER_02: What does the scripture say about one new man?
SPEAKER_02: The Gentiles are grafted in.
SPEAKER_02: So there is this possibility that they represent those two realities.
SPEAKER_02: Now the lampstand is interesting because we know the lampstand to come from the tabernacle of Moses.
SPEAKER_02: Eventually, it did not happen at the tabernacle or the tent of David.
SPEAKER_02: David didn't have the structure like everybody else.
SPEAKER_02: Solomon's temple all the way forward, but we do know that the lampstand in the temple and its purpose to shine the light.
SPEAKER_02: We understand that also in Revelation, the lampstand, remember, Jesus represents the seven spirits with the seven lampstands.
SPEAKER_02: So there is this possibility that they also are representing Holy Spirit and Jesus, or they're representing light and never or unending power.
SPEAKER_02: There's a bunch of things that we could go down the road and have a lot of fun with this, but here's the reality we don't know 100%.
SPEAKER_02: But it sure is fun to think about.
SPEAKER_02: Witnesses, these witnesses cannot minister effectively apart from divine empowerment, obviously, because fire coming out of their mouth alone is pretty wild.
SPEAKER_02: So we understand that these two witnesses, which are God's servants, obviously they've had some kind of personal encounter.
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, there is a spiritual dependence, and there is that continual feeling, uh feeling F-I-L-L-I-N-G.
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
SPEAKER_02: My feel and feel both sound the same.
SPEAKER_02: The effectiveness of God's witnesses come not from human ability, but from continual power of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02: If I didn't have that first image, and I apologize, I left my laser pointer in my Jeep, and we're in Christy's car.
SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna keep this up for a little bit.
SPEAKER_02: And you have this as well.
SPEAKER_02: The three images tonight, I just felt like these are something that you needed to have.
SPEAKER_02: Because we're getting a really good timeline of things now.
SPEAKER_02: If you look at that image on the bottom left, you'll see uh three and a half years, then you'll see the seventh trumpet, three and a half years, thousand years revelation, forever and forever.
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
SPEAKER_02: But you see the seven seals to the six trumpets, and then the Great Tribulation, the seven bowls, millennial, and so on and so forth.
SPEAKER_02: Now, these two witnesses are going to prophesy 1,260 days, two olive trees, two lampstands.
SPEAKER_02: They can call down fire and kill their enemies, which is just crazy to think about.
SPEAKER_02: They shut up the sky, water turns to blood, they strike with plagues.
SPEAKER_02: When, and we'll see this in a little bit, we'll we'll get to this when they finish the testimony.
SPEAKER_02: But here's what I want you to look at right now.
SPEAKER_02: Look at that bottom timeline.
SPEAKER_02: See where that says that seventh trumpet sounds?
SPEAKER_02: Where do you think that is on the seven-year calendar?
SPEAKER_02: If we're looking at seven years, where do you think this is?
SPEAKER_02: Any guess?
SPEAKER_02: Let's put it this way.
SPEAKER_02: First three and a half years, middle, or second three and a half years?
SPEAKER_02: Some would say second three and a half.
SPEAKER_02: Anyone say different?
SPEAKER_02: Who says first three and a half?
SPEAKER_02: Anybody?
SPEAKER_02: Who says middle?
SPEAKER_02: One, two, three, four, five.
SPEAKER_02: From what we can tell, six, it looks more as though this is the middle.
SPEAKER_02: This is why.
SPEAKER_02: Because what is about to happen is these two witnesses are gonna show up and they're gonna prophesy for how many days?
SPEAKER_02: Which is how long?
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: Now we have a starting point to something.
SPEAKER_02: Then we're gonna see this seventh trumpet, and the seventh trumpet plays a very pivotal role, and how all of a sudden we're gonna see, we're not gonna get into the seven bowls tonight, but the great tribulation moving forward, the seven bowls are often known as the wrath of God.
SPEAKER_02: So, if the timeline is correct, this chapter is introducing the middle aspect of it.
SPEAKER_02: So we looked at the beginning when we were in Revelation 4, and we looked at five.
SPEAKER_02: And we possibly said, okay, if you believe pre-trib, this is where this would happen.
SPEAKER_02: If you believe mid-trib, this is kind of the idea of where you're going to be.
SPEAKER_02: Now, where exactly would that happen if it's a mid-trib rapture?
SPEAKER_02: That's a great debate, but we'll discuss that a little bit later.
SPEAKER_02: But I it's important because we do actually have a marker here.
SPEAKER_02: And it's because of specifically what the assignment is.
SPEAKER_02: Now we have a timeline, three and a half years, 1,260 days.
SPEAKER_02: What is going to happen?
SPEAKER_02: All right.
SPEAKER_02: Now, they called down the fire, shut down the heaven, stopped the rain, turned the water in the blood, and they strike the earth with plagues.
SPEAKER_02: Now that sounds crazy in and of itself.
SPEAKER_02: But the interesting thing is these things have happened historically in Scripture.
SPEAKER_02: Shut the heavens and stopped the rains.
SPEAKER_02: There was a prophet that did that in the Bible.
SPEAKER_02: Anybody know his name?
SPEAKER_02: Elijah.
SPEAKER_02: There was fire that came down, there was water to turn in blood, and there were plagues in a certain region where Israel were held captive.
SPEAKER_02: So these things, even though they're reoccurring, they're not something that let me say it this way.
SPEAKER_02: Gentiles will always kind of be shot to this unless you are a Christian.
SPEAKER_02: These things will be like, oh my gosh, we've never seen anything like this before.
SPEAKER_02: But if you are a true Jew, you have knowledge of these things.
SPEAKER_02: You know these details.
SPEAKER_02: You've heard these details.
SPEAKER_02: These are things that should be like a flashing light to you, going, hey, this ought to be a warning to you.
SPEAKER_02: This has happened.
SPEAKER_02: This is that.
SPEAKER_02: And always think, by the way, always think, you know, it's like Jesus tells the disciples to get in the boat.
SPEAKER_02: He goes to the bottom boat, he sleeps, they panic, they think they're going to die.
SPEAKER_02: He gets up and rebukes them.
SPEAKER_02: Right?
SPEAKER_02: And then another time he says, get in the boat, we're going to the other side.
SPEAKER_02: Now, I would like to think, maybe it wouldn't, I'd like to think I would have said, Nope, I failed this one the first time.
SPEAKER_02: I'm not setting myself up the second time.
SPEAKER_02: But maybe I wouldn't have.
SPEAKER_02: And this is where I'm always kind of recognizing something that is so easy to overlook.
SPEAKER_02: If, and we are looking at this from the lens of Jesus, and we're looking at the lens of what God established, what Jesus' original intent was, but because rejection opened the door to the Gentiles, now we have to recognize that these events are highlighting to a certain group.
SPEAKER_02: And that's why it's going to be important going forward.
SPEAKER_02: So again, Elijah calls down fire, shuts the heavens, Moses, all those things we just discussed there.
SPEAKER_02: God is going to equip his servants with everything necessary to accomplish their assignment.
SPEAKER_02: Now, let's just stop.
SPEAKER_02: Because I know that some will say, so you're saying the two witnesses are Elijah and Moses.
SPEAKER_02: Just hold on, because we're going to open up a couple more can of worms concerning that.
SPEAKER_02: Alright?
SPEAKER_02: So just don't get ahead of me.
SPEAKER_02: Verse 7, 7 through 10.
SPEAKER_02: And when they have finished their testimony of the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them and overcome them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
SPEAKER_02: And those from the peoples and the tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and it will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.
SPEAKER_02: And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
SPEAKER_02: Yea, two witnesses.
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't sound encouraging, but there is a greater purpose to this all.
SPEAKER_02: After they're prophesying, after all their power demonstration, a beast rises up out of what?
SPEAKER_02: The abyss.
SPEAKER_02: We have mentioned the abyss before.
SPEAKER_02: And we mentioned where even the locust with the head of the lion and the breastplate, the head of man, the breastplate of iron, and how that came out of the abyss as well.
SPEAKER_02: So we're talking about the same type of abyss.
SPEAKER_02: The witnesses are killed.
SPEAKER_02: Their bodies are going to lay in Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_02: How do we know they're going to lay in Jerusalem?
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a big hint here when John says they'll lay in the place where Jesus was crucified.
SPEAKER_02: Now, it is important to understand something.
SPEAKER_02: Although we say Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem, and that is truth to a certain theme, because sometimes when we think Jerusalem, and if we type it right now, the thing that's probably going to come up on Google is that gold dome.
SPEAKER_02: And you're going to be looking from the place of Mount Olives towards the gold dome.
SPEAKER_02: Well, the gold dome is not Christian.
SPEAKER_02: The gold dome is a mosque.
SPEAKER_02: And that wall in front is the old wall of the city of David.
SPEAKER_02: When Jesus is crucified, he is not crucified within those walls.
SPEAKER_02: He's not crucified where that temple is.
SPEAKER_02: He's not crucified in front of that wall.
SPEAKER_02: Actually, he's taken a little ways out, but he's still there, but he's just a little ways out in a place called Mount Moriah.
SPEAKER_02: So we understand now that possibly these two witnesses won't even be close to the temple.
SPEAKER_02: They'll be away from it a little bit.
SPEAKER_02: Kind of maybe possibly in between.
SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
SPEAKER_02: It's just hypothetical thoughts.
SPEAKER_02: So notice that when they are killed, their ministry ends only when God permits it.
SPEAKER_02: In other words, if you remember what we just read, they could not die.
SPEAKER_02: But then all of a sudden, they die.
SPEAKER_02: Right?
SPEAKER_02: They're killed.
SPEAKER_02: The beast is not allowed to stop them prematurely.
SPEAKER_02: Now imagine this.
SPEAKER_02: Here's at the end of this, we read this last verse when it said that everybody was so excited that they gave gifts to one another.
SPEAKER_02: Sort of sounds like Christmas, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02: They exchanged gifts because they were too dead.
SPEAKER_02: The two witnesses are dead.
SPEAKER_02: And yay, they have tormented us for so long.
SPEAKER_02: If the beast could have killed them, the beast would have killed them a long time ago.
SPEAKER_02: It shows you again that time is very important to God.
SPEAKER_02: There is a purpose in it all.
SPEAKER_02: Now, we understand too that God's servants are not immortal until their God appointment assignment is complete.
SPEAKER_02: The great city Jerusalem now has an interesting name.
SPEAKER_02: Sodom, Egypt, and the Great City.
SPEAKER_02: Sodom, immorality.
SPEAKER_02: Egypt, bondage, and oppression.
SPEAKER_02: And then the great city.
SPEAKER_02: Possibly it could be in association with worldly rebellion.
SPEAKER_02: It is interesting to recognize the world response because those that are here will celebrate.
SPEAKER_02: They'll rejoice and they'll exchange the gifts because these two are dead.
SPEAKER_02: Why in the world?
SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting scripture.
SPEAKER_02: This is one of those that to me is there's something here, and I don't know what it exactly is, but it feels like there's a hidden nugget to something here.
SPEAKER_02: It sounds so strange to me when you read this that John makes sure to include that they exchanged gifts.
SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm gonna say something here.
SPEAKER_02: All right.
SPEAKER_02: This is my opinion.
SPEAKER_02: No one has to has to agree with me whatsoever.
SPEAKER_02: I think that this is a motive of an antichrist spirit.
SPEAKER_02: Now hear me out.
SPEAKER_02: Here's what I'm gonna say.
SPEAKER_02: When the Messiah was born, they came bringing gifts.
SPEAKER_02: Now, we're gonna get to the Antichrist, but just we understand that the spirit of Antichrist has always been active.
SPEAKER_02: And of course it's gonna be active here, but there's something about this that has that flavor to it, I guess.
SPEAKER_02: But that's my opinion.
SPEAKER_02: I can't prove that one way or another.
SPEAKER_02: But it's just like, why did John mention that?
SPEAKER_02: That's such a peculiar thing to mention.
SPEAKER_02: Why not just say, oh, they accelerated and they rejoiced?
SPEAKER_02: The interesting thing is ultimately, although they tormented those who dwell on the earth, truth is going to expose sin.
SPEAKER_02: And those that reject truth always hate the messengers of God.
SPEAKER_02: Again, the world may continue to reject God, but that rejection is never going to negate the value and the worth of God's truth.
SPEAKER_02: Verse 11 through 14.
SPEAKER_02: And after the tree and a half days the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who were beholding them.
SPEAKER_02: And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, Come up here, and they went up to heaven in the cloud, and their enemies behold them.
SPEAKER_02: And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell, and seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified, and gave glory to God, uh to glory to the God of heaven.
SPEAKER_02: The second woe is past.
SPEAKER_02: Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.
SPEAKER_02: Now, you remember we talk about the problem that people forget about you.
SPEAKER_02: You ever you ever you ever have a conversation with somebody and they they they mention, well, that word's not in the Bible?
SPEAKER_02: Rapture is one of those things that people love to say.
SPEAKER_02: That word is not in the Bible.
SPEAKER_02: Yes, the English word rapture is not in the Bible.
SPEAKER_02: Now we do know that the Greek word raptesio is, which means to be caught up.
SPEAKER_02: So that word caught up somewhere along the line, it went from Greek to Latin to English, and we get the terminology rapture.
SPEAKER_02: One of the things that people fail to remember, we've mentioned this before, but I want to remind us, there are several catching ups throughout this period.
SPEAKER_02: Remember some of the martyrs, they were caught up.
SPEAKER_02: And now we have the two witnesses who were dead, but what happens?
SPEAKER_02: They are resurrected.
SPEAKER_02: And when they're resurrected, the loud voice says, Come up here, and they ascend to heaven on what?
SPEAKER_02: On a cloud, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_02: Because it could potentially also be other people.
SPEAKER_02: How do we know that?
SPEAKER_02: Well, let's remember in Acts chapter 1, when Jesus goes up and it describes, it's talking about those who were resurrected.
SPEAKER_02: And how interesting is this, too, that when the two are killed and then they are raised, they were dead for how many days?
SPEAKER_02: Three and a half, pretty similar to Jesus, right?
SPEAKER_02: And then when they died, what happened?
SPEAKER_02: The earth shook.
SPEAKER_02: And here's the crazy thing about it.
SPEAKER_02: Did you get that number?
SPEAKER_02: A tenth of the city fell.
SPEAKER_02: Just like that, a tenth of the people killed.
SPEAKER_02: So now we have the finishing of the testimony.
SPEAKER_02: The beast rises from the abyss, overcomes them, kills them.
SPEAKER_02: Bodies lay in Jerusalem, earthquake, tormentor is now dead, breath, and then they're raptured.
SPEAKER_02: In that hour, we have the statement that the second woe is past.
SPEAKER_02: Now the third woe is coming quickly.
SPEAKER_02: Right?
SPEAKER_02: And then we get the tenth of Jerusalem failed, 7,000 killed.
SPEAKER_02: Then it says an interesting thing here.
SPEAKER_02: The rest were terrified and gave glory to God of heaven.
SPEAKER_02: Now, I say that's interesting because there's been a lot of events and deaths that's happening along the way, and many people throughout the world just dug their heels even deeper.
SPEAKER_02: And they dug deeper, and they the scripture actually says that they continue to reject and rebel against God.
SPEAKER_02: Y'all remember that?
SPEAKER_02: But here we have people who are terrified and they give glory to God.
SPEAKER_02: Now here's the question: who are the people?
SPEAKER_02: More than likely, it's going to be a significant number of Jewish people because where is this happening?
SPEAKER_02: Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_02: And again, this is a big flashing sign.
SPEAKER_02: I've said this from day one.
SPEAKER_02: The book of Revelation of Jesus Christ is exactly what it says: the revelation of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_02: We as Gentiles know him to be the Messiah, but Jews, Israel, they reject Him as Messiah.
SPEAKER_02: And this is a problem because even though, and it is correct, I'm not taking away from it, the Bible does say that for God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten Son, that whosoever believed in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
SPEAKER_02: Yes, but the scripture also says that Jesus came to the Jews first.
SPEAKER_02: And that is something we desperately have to recall back into our memory.
SPEAKER_02: The question is, why did Jesus go to the Jews first?
SPEAKER_02: Were they more special?
SPEAKER_02: Were they more important?
SPEAKER_02: Now there's people even in our day that are rejecting that.
SPEAKER_02: The reality is it goes all the way back to Ezekiel and Jeremiah when God is dealing with Israel as a whole.
SPEAKER_02: All right?
SPEAKER_02: It goes all the way back there.
SPEAKER_02: But here's the thing: you've got to know that just because they rejected Jesus, it doesn't mean that God completely rejected them.
SPEAKER_02: He is making a way.
SPEAKER_02: We have to remember that.
SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about the two witnesses and who they are.
SPEAKER_02: Some believe that they represent the church, some believe they represent the law and the prophets.
SPEAKER_02: However, the detailed descriptions argue that this is beyond something symbolic.
SPEAKER_02: That this is literally two actual individuals.
SPEAKER_02: If I can get the next slide, please.
SPEAKER_02: If exact, can I get the next slide?
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
SPEAKER_02: All right.
SPEAKER_02: You have this as well, but we're going to look at this.
SPEAKER_02: There are three theories.
SPEAKER_02: Moses and Elijah.
SPEAKER_02: Why do we believe that it's Moses and Elijah?
SPEAKER_02: We kind of broke that down just a little bit earlier, right?
SPEAKER_02: Because of the events that were happening.
SPEAKER_02: And then we have Enoch and Elijah, and then a third one is two unknown believers.
SPEAKER_02: Now, there is this prophetic clue.
SPEAKER_02: Even though Revelation 11 mentions this, Zechariah 4 also mentions two olive trees and lampstands, not by might nor by power, but by spirit.
SPEAKER_02: They're going to prophesy, be killed, and rise again.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's talk about Elijah first, because this is the interesting thing.
SPEAKER_02: Elijah is in two out of three of these concepts.
SPEAKER_02: So most theologians, most historians would argue that Elijah has the highest possibility of being one of the two.
SPEAKER_02: Why Elijah?
SPEAKER_02: Fire consumed the enemies, he got the rain to cease, and Malachi prophesied Elijah's return.
SPEAKER_02: Now, there will be some that will say, well, that was John the Baptist in that spirit.
SPEAKER_02: And then you'll even have some people that try to argue that was Jesus to a degree in that.
SPEAKER_02: But it's interesting, nevertheless.
SPEAKER_02: Now we come into Moses.
SPEAKER_02: Why?
SPEAKER_02: Water became blood, plagues fell upon Egypt, and he appeared at the Transfiguration.
SPEAKER_02: Now let's just stop for a second.
SPEAKER_02: Moses died.
SPEAKER_02: Did he or did he not?
SPEAKER_02: He did.
SPEAKER_02: Where's his body?
SPEAKER_02: We don't know.
SPEAKER_02: Why?
SPEAKER_02: Satan tried to get the body of Moses, which is just crazy to think about.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just, it's like, why did you want Moses' body so bad?
SPEAKER_02: Of all the people that we could go through the scripture, why Moses?
SPEAKER_02: Well, some will argue is that, again, Satan knows more than what we give credit for, and Satan knew that possibly if Moses would reappear, if he had the body, it would stop the plan of God.
SPEAKER_02: So that is a pretty good argument.
SPEAKER_02: Elijah did not die.
SPEAKER_02: Elijah is caught up in a whirlwind.
SPEAKER_02: And Elisha saw it.
SPEAKER_02: And then there's another person in the Bible who also never died.
SPEAKER_02: Enoch.
SPEAKER_02: He never experienced a natural death.
SPEAKER_02: Now, here's where everything kind of gets very challenging.
SPEAKER_02: Here's what the Bible tells us about Enoch.
SPEAKER_02: He knew God.
SPEAKER_02: That's it.
SPEAKER_02: The word of God doesn't, it tells who his father is, and it tells who Enoch's son is.
SPEAKER_02: Enoch, by the way, is the father of Methuselah.
SPEAKER_02: But we don't know about Enoch other than he knew God, and so God said, All right, come up with me.
SPEAKER_02: What does that mean exactly?
SPEAKER_02: There's such a big void.
SPEAKER_02: Now, let me just stop right here and I'm gonna put in a public service announcement.
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna give you the reason why on this.
SPEAKER_02: There are gonna be people who are gonna come to you if you've not already been told this, and they're going to say, you need to read the book of Enoch.
SPEAKER_02: And they're going to tell you that in the book of Enoch is all this divine revelation and all this stuff that should have been in the Bible is not in the Bible.
SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to tell you don't waste your time.
SPEAKER_02: And this is why.
SPEAKER_02: Unless you are a hundred percent secure, secure, secure, secure in the Word of God, the book of Enoch will take you down paths that you were never intended to go.
SPEAKER_02: Those that are mature in Christ could read Enoch and it not sway them one way or the other.
SPEAKER_02: But quickly, I'm going to give you some problems with Enoch.
SPEAKER_02: Number one, it instructs us to make sacrifices to the sun, the moon, and the stars.
SPEAKER_02: That's a problem.
SPEAKER_02: Number two, it claims that the art was constructed by angels and not Noah.
SPEAKER_02: Sounds good, but we know that Noah and his sons built it.
SPEAKER_02: Number three, it encourages the praying to angels.
SPEAKER_02: Number four, foster sympathy for fallen angels.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't sympathize with that bunch.
SPEAKER_02: You chose to go.
SPEAKER_02: Number five, it claims an angel named Gadril, not Lucifer, tempted Eve.
SPEAKER_02: I've always laughed at that too.
SPEAKER_02: Gadril G-A-D-R-E-E-L.
SPEAKER_02: Every time I see that and hear that, I always think Gagril.
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a joke.
SPEAKER_02: And six, it says that Nephilim giants were 3,000 cubits tall, which would be 4,500 feet.
SPEAKER_02: Almost a mile tall.
SPEAKER_02: Now, is that going to sway you one way or the other?
SPEAKER_02: No, but I mean it's just like, come on.
SPEAKER_02: So what we know is Enoch didn't die, Elijah didn't die.
SPEAKER_02: Here's the challenge.
SPEAKER_02: It makes sense for it to be Moses and Elijah.
SPEAKER_02: It makes sense on a lot of areas.
SPEAKER_02: But it also makes sense that it's Enoch and Elijah for a very, very important action.
SPEAKER_02: The two witnesses are sent here to be killed.
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02: So there's this concept that, man, Moses and Enoch makes pretty good sense, I mean, Moses and Enoch, Elijah and Enoch makes pretty good sense just because they've never died.
SPEAKER_02: And that's pretty important.
SPEAKER_02: Now, there is a third category, and that is we have no clue who these two are.
SPEAKER_02: These two could absolutely be ordinary people that are empowered by God.
SPEAKER_02: There is that possibility.
SPEAKER_02: What you don't hear a lot of times is that third thing.
SPEAKER_02: And what I'm always going to tell you is don't always close the door when there is a possibility.
SPEAKER_02: And there is a possibility.
SPEAKER_02: Now, does it make sense that it's two unknown people?
SPEAKER_02: Not really.
SPEAKER_02: But, hey, with the Lord anything's possible.
SPEAKER_02: Verse 15.
SPEAKER_02: And the seventh angel sounded, and there arose loud voices in heaven saying, The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.
SPEAKER_02: Ho ho ho ho.
SPEAKER_02: This is an interesting statement here.
SPEAKER_02: The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord.
SPEAKER_02: What exactly would you think that means?
SPEAKER_02: Anybody?
SPEAKER_02: Just shout it out.
SPEAKER_02: I'll repeat it.
SPEAKER_02: Any guesses?
SPEAKER_02: Huh?
SPEAKER_02: The earth?
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you're saying that the earth is the kingdom of the world, right?
SPEAKER_02: Now it's saying that the earth is the kingdom of the world, and what happens to the kingdom of the world?
SPEAKER_02: It becomes the kingdom of the Lord.
SPEAKER_02: Which is exactly what it's talking about.
SPEAKER_02: It's talking about everything on the earth, in the earth, above the earth, under the earth, everything.
SPEAKER_02: How do we know this?
SPEAKER_02: This actually goes back to Daniel.
SPEAKER_02: Remember, Daniel talks about a rock coming down that would not be destroyed, and it would be forever and ever and ever.
SPEAKER_02: We are getting the glimpse of this right now, that this is the certainty of Christ's reign.
SPEAKER_02: Verse 16 through 18.
SPEAKER_02: And the 24 elders who sit on the thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who art and who was, and because thou hast taken thy great power and hast begun to reign.
SPEAKER_02: And the nations were enraged, and thy wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to give their reward to their bondservants, the prophets, and to the saints, and to those who fear thy name, the small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.
SPEAKER_02: Now, let me just stop right here.
SPEAKER_02: How many notice something very strange about verses 16, 17, and 18?
SPEAKER_02: There is something strange about these verses.
SPEAKER_02: 15, 16, 17, 18, sorry.
SPEAKER_02: Where are we at?
SPEAKER_02: Can I go to the back to the first one?
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
SPEAKER_02: Where are we at verses 15, 16, and 17?
SPEAKER_02: 18.
SPEAKER_02: We get that the trumpet sounds in 15.
SPEAKER_02: But when you read 16, 17, and 18, it's talking about a future tense.
SPEAKER_02: Why do we know that it's talking about a future tense?
SPEAKER_02: Well, when do the two witnesses die?
SPEAKER_02: It wouldn't be on day 100 of them prophesying.
SPEAKER_02: It would be on day 1261 of them prophesying.
SPEAKER_02: This chapter is where so much heated debate comes because there's a time jump.
SPEAKER_02: And I mean it's a significant time jump.
SPEAKER_02: When it says the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord, we're talking about the end of this thing.
SPEAKER_02: Not the end of the millennial.
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about the end of the tribulation period.
SPEAKER_02: And if you were just to read it, it really wouldn't make sense.
SPEAKER_02: And it's a bit confusing, but you've got to recognize that although the seventh trumpet sounds at 15, there's that time lapse that is future tense.
SPEAKER_02: Now, why also would John write this way?
SPEAKER_02: Well, is he showing the end of the story before you get to the end of the story?
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
SPEAKER_02: But also, I think there's something here, this is my opinion.
SPEAKER_02: I think this is also signifying the third woe.
SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that, the third woe will come quickly.
SPEAKER_02: And what John is signifying is what is about to occur is going to move really quickly, even though it's three and a half years in that process.
SPEAKER_02: So we take a significant jump here because we're missing a lot of information about what's happening in those three and a half years.
SPEAKER_02: We're going to get it as we go on, but this chapter highlights something that Christ is going to reign.
SPEAKER_02: The beast is not going to stop him.
SPEAKER_02: Jesus is going to establish his kingdom.
SPEAKER_02: This is a, okay, in prophecy, there are things called foreshadowing and forthcoming.
SPEAKER_02: Forthcoming is a prophetic word that says there is something, don't overthink it, that is coming forth.
SPEAKER_02: A foreshadowing prophecy gives us something that has a realm of possibility, but not all the details.
SPEAKER_02: Now, here's what's interesting about this.
SPEAKER_02: When John establishes this, he is connecting the dots of the forthcoming word that Daniel spoke of.
SPEAKER_02: Which is crazy about this.
SPEAKER_02: Now, it also says that the nations were angry.
SPEAKER_02: Humanity is going to resist God's rule, which Jesus foretold this kind of rebellion.
SPEAKER_02: The world wants a religion without any type of surrender.
SPEAKER_02: And that's still going on today.
SPEAKER_02: Verse 19.
SPEAKER_02: And the temple of God, which is in heaven, was opened, and the ark of his covenant appeared in his temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.
SPEAKER_02: I love the way that John writes sometimes.
SPEAKER_02: It's like he just throws something in there every once in a while, and it's like, well, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_02: You've talked about the lightning, the flashes, the thunder, and the peals of the voice, but you've never mentioned a hailstorm before.
SPEAKER_02: So this is intriguing.
SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting that this chapter gives us this impeding judgment that is going to come, but it also gives us that God never forgets his covenant promises.
SPEAKER_02: It reveals that God preserves what belongs to him, how he's going to empower his two witnesses, how he will vindicate them, but also there's going to be the establishing of his kingdom.
SPEAKER_02: Overall, this chapter teaches us that when God measures, he claims it.
SPEAKER_02: Evil is only going to operate in the limits of God.
SPEAKER_02: The Holy Spirit empowers faithful witnesses.
SPEAKER_02: And although they're going to die, their assignment will be fulfilled.
SPEAKER_02: It's interesting because the scripture tells us that it is appointed once for all of mankind to die.
SPEAKER_02: So we have an appointment date, whether we like it or not.
SPEAKER_02: We have one.
SPEAKER_02: Just by reading that, it kind of gives us a little bit of a glimpse that the reason we have an appointment date is because the assignment comes to our end.
SPEAKER_02: But interesting enough, the Bible also says that you can prematurely cut your life short by dishonoring your mother and father, which is even wild to think about.
SPEAKER_02: But truth is often and has for centuries and will continue to be rejected by the world.
SPEAKER_02: But there's that verse, verse 15.
SPEAKER_02: And he will reign forever and ever.
SPEAKER_02: Now, if I can get that last image, then we'll go to QA, because this is a very important one.
SPEAKER_02: We've talked a little about preterism.
SPEAKER_02: You have full preterists and you have partial preterists.
SPEAKER_02: And I have mentioned, and I don't apologize for this for anyone that's listening to the podcast.
SPEAKER_02: I it is my opinion, it is my belief that if you are a full preterist, it is heresy.
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not going to apologize for that because I can prove that in a lot of scripture.
SPEAKER_02: But let's talk about something here.
SPEAKER_02: What preterists get wrong about Revelation 11, 1 and 2.
SPEAKER_02: From the preterist interpretation, you have this as well.
SPEAKER_02: They say the physical temple in Jerusalem is symbolizing God's judgment on Israel.
SPEAKER_02: As a dispensationalist interpretation, which, by the way, if you believe that, for example, you had the age of law, age of grace, you have a millennial reign, you have all these, these are dispensations, okay?
SPEAKER_02: That's what would put you in that category.
SPEAKER_02: Its interpretation is that the temple is a literal future temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_02: Okay?
SPEAKER_02: Then the measuring of the temple.
SPEAKER_02: A preterist says divine protection over the faithful remnant in Israel.
SPEAKER_02: So a preterist would just say that there's just some that God just picks out.
SPEAKER_02: Yea, them.
SPEAKER_02: A dispensationalist interpretation symbolizes God's protection of the faithful remnant during the tribulation.
SPEAKER_02: Now, here's one of the things that we got to remember because some people may say, I agree or disagree with that, whatever.
SPEAKER_02: But here's the thing.
SPEAKER_02: We know, according to Scripture, even though a lot of people are going to die in tribulation, a lot of people are going to die.
SPEAKER_02: There's going to be people that survive, but more importantly, they're going to be those who become martyrs.
SPEAKER_02: If you're in the tribulation period and you're a martyr, you had to have some kind of relationship with Jesus.
SPEAKER_02: Which means that if you didn't have a relationship before the tribulation started, you got one during the tribulation period.
SPEAKER_02: So people will be born again during that time, which again just blows our mind to think about that.
SPEAKER_02: The outer court, the preterist, says that it is apostate Israel and Gentile participation in the siege of Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_02: When did that happen, according to a preterist?
SPEAKER_02: Think about that because we're about to get to it.
SPEAKER_02: Dispensationalist represents Gentile control over Jerusalem during the tribulation.
SPEAKER_02: Right now, who owns the Temple Mount Muslims.
SPEAKER_02: Right now, it's crazy to think about this.
SPEAKER_02: Jews cannot get on top of that.
SPEAKER_02: It's why the, you see, if you if you if you look this up, there's this massive wall, and there's Jews doing this.
SPEAKER_02: 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
SPEAKER_02: That wall is here, and the temple mount starts right here.
SPEAKER_02: They cannot get there.
SPEAKER_02: The crazier thing is while they're doing this and praying, there's a massive loudspeaker blasting the prayers of Islam back down to them.
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, if you want to go there, as a Christian Gentile, you cannot carry your Bible on the grounds there.
SPEAKER_02: And it's not because of Islam, it's the Jews.
SPEAKER_02: The Jews will not permit Bibles to be in that area.
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02: All right.
SPEAKER_02: 42 months.
SPEAKER_02: Preterists say it refers to the period of judgment on Israel leading up to 70 A.D.
SPEAKER_02: Dispensationalist refers to the final half of the seven-year tribulation period, which ironically sort of does make sense considering that that period, 42 months, connects back to Daniel's 70th week.
SPEAKER_02: That gives us the three and a half years, the 1260 days.
SPEAKER_02: Those things just seem to make sense.
SPEAKER_02: And lastly, preterist judgment on Israel for rejecting Christ.
SPEAKER_02: Well, that all accumulated in 70 AD.
SPEAKER_02: And dispensationalist judgment on the world, especially Israel, during the tribulation.
SPEAKER_02: So, I wanted you to have that.
SPEAKER_02: We'll dive more into this later, of course, but this is something that you need to hang on to.
SPEAKER_02: I printed this out for you because I think there's value in this.
SPEAKER_02: And the funny thing is, though, even though you're going to have all this, I will guarantee you this without a shadow of a doubt.
SPEAKER_02: I won't even hesitate on this.
SPEAKER_02: If you talk to a full preterist and you present them with this information, they're still going to say, it's still happening on 70 AD.
SPEAKER_02: I'm saying this to say you will never convince them in a debate.
SPEAKER_02: The only thing that will ever convince a full preterist is the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02: They have to have an encounter with the Holy Spirit because there has been something to gain their heart and their eyes, and it ain't from God.
SPEAKER_02: Any questions?
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: I'll get back to you in just a second.
SPEAKER_01: Two, actually.
SPEAKER_01: At the time the witnesses are taken up, we know that they have been witnessing not just about God, but about Jesus, because it's the revelation of Christ, right?
SPEAKER_01: The remnant in Israel where it says now they fear and give glory to God is do you believe that is the point where Israel now recognizes Jesus for who he is, and then that turn comes?
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and let me get back to him and I'll come back.
SPEAKER_02: Can I say that 100%?
SPEAKER_02: No, I can't.
SPEAKER_02: Um, because you can give glory to God out of fear and not really receive or accept.
SPEAKER_02: However, it does give the probability that this is that where there are those that have this spiritual awakening and they realize something.
SPEAKER_02: Now, again, it could not be because you could just be terrified and decide I'm going to honor God to begin with.
SPEAKER_02: How do we know this?
SPEAKER_02: How would that ever happen?
SPEAKER_02: Go back to the book of Daniel.
SPEAKER_02: Wasn't there a couple of kings that put out proclamations to honor God but they never surrender their life to God?
SPEAKER_02: That can easily happen.
SPEAKER_02: But there are, and there can possibly be a couple other areas in this, but this is a very significant one because this is in the a uh a future tense of this, which kind of gives you the idea that this would be towards the tail end of it.
SPEAKER_02: There is a day when Israel, and when we say Israel, by the way, or when I say Israel, I'm talking about people and land.
SPEAKER_02: I know the Tucker Carlsons of the world want to say that that land belongs to Palestine.
SPEAKER_02: First of all, Palestine are the descendants of the Philistines.
SPEAKER_02: Palestinians never existed.
SPEAKER_02: It's a terminology that described the Philistines and from the region that they were from, but they've never owned the land.
SPEAKER_02: And people would say, well, why does God care about that land?
SPEAKER_02: Because he gave it to them.
SPEAKER_02: That's why he cares.
SPEAKER_02: It's not something that is just like, oh, he forgets about the land.
SPEAKER_02: No, go back and see how this thing started.
SPEAKER_02: That land is valuable to God.
SPEAKER_02: But so are the people.
SPEAKER_02: Now, you're also going to hear this argument, and I had someone send me a video not long ago, and they were saying, oh, this, you know, and I had to quickly say, whoa, this is this is a garden attempt where they say something just a little bit right, but it's full of error.
SPEAKER_02: Now there's a big push that these really aren't the descendants of Jacob.
SPEAKER_02: Spare me.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, look, can I run my blood and connect it all the way back to Adam?
SPEAKER_02: No, I can't.
SPEAKER_02: But my DNA does that for what man can't prove.
SPEAKER_02: So are there Jewish people that have been interwoven through time?
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
SPEAKER_02: We know now that we would have never known this before, but thanks to technology that we have in science, we know now that the Cherokee people have Jewish bloodlines.
SPEAKER_02: In their lineage.
SPEAKER_02: That's crazy to think about.
SPEAKER_02: Because we don't compute things like that.
SPEAKER_02: But these are things that you don't let anybody talk you out of the value of the people and the land.
SPEAKER_02: I'm coming back to you.
SPEAKER_03: So you may have answered it.
SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03: And it's just out of curiosity.
SPEAKER_03: You presented three theories as to who the two witnesses are.
SPEAKER_03: In your opinion, who are the two witnesses and why?
SPEAKER_03: This is always a fun question.
SPEAKER_02: For let's see, November, I'll be I'll be born again 29 years.
SPEAKER_02: And I will say probably the first three years of serving the Lord, I was not interested in revelation.
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna say 25 years, give or take a little bit, of studying it.
SPEAKER_02: In 25 years, I have always leaned towards Elijah and Enoch.
SPEAKER_02: I can't get past the fact that they have to be killed.
SPEAKER_02: It's really a struggle for me.
SPEAKER_02: Um now that's my opinion.
SPEAKER_02: Now, could it, I can see the argument for for Elijah and Moses.
SPEAKER_02: I genuinely can see that argument because of the events that happen and their participation of that.
SPEAKER_02: It does make sense.
SPEAKER_02: I'm not negating it.
SPEAKER_02: But if it is Moses and Elijah, what happened to Enoch?
SPEAKER_02: And where is he at?
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is a legitimate question.
SPEAKER_02: Because we have to ask right now, and we understand what the Word of God says, that we can't see God.
SPEAKER_02: The way that we're gonna see him is this earthly shell will go to the ground, we're gone.
SPEAKER_02: To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
SPEAKER_02: But there's been no separation of Elijah and the body or Enoch in the body.
SPEAKER_02: So I've got some really good friends that they will argue with me to their blue in the face that it is Moses and Elijah.
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, cool.
SPEAKER_02: What about Enoch?
SPEAKER_02: And they always go, oh no, that don't matter.
SPEAKER_02: Well, it sort of matters because the wages of sin is death.
SPEAKER_02: We have to remember God never violates what he puts into order.
SPEAKER_02: When Adam and Eve willingly sinned in the garden, the first thing that had to die was the thing that covered their sin, the animals.
SPEAKER_02: And then we know eventually, although Adam lives a very long life, we know eventually Adam does die.
SPEAKER_02: And everyone else.
SPEAKER_02: Death is a guarantee.
SPEAKER_02: Not because it's a good idea that these bodies wear out, but because God instituted it as a result of what they did in the garden.
SPEAKER_02: Now, it's not like God just got so mad and he punished them with death.
SPEAKER_02: The curse was man is going to work to the sweat of the brow, thorns and thistles, woman is going to feel the pain of childbirth, and for the serpent, the heel of the seed of the woman will crush your head.
SPEAKER_02: And all that has come to pass.
SPEAKER_02: But we also know that something significantly took place in the garden because when God goes looking for them, you know it's always debated.
SPEAKER_02: Did God lose them?
SPEAKER_02: He couldn't find them, he couldn't see them?
SPEAKER_02: Well, no.
SPEAKER_02: God never lost them in that sense.
SPEAKER_02: He knew exactly where they are.
SPEAKER_02: Of course, it was trying to get Adam and Eve to acknowledge where they are, to acknowledge what was happening.
SPEAKER_02: They were the ones that were hiding.
SPEAKER_02: But it's interesting because what we know about Adam is he was created in the image and likeness.
SPEAKER_02: When sin occurred, something significantly happened to their natural bodies, and they could no longer dwell in Eden.
SPEAKER_02: From that time forward, we have always been trying to get the likeness of God back into this natural body.
SPEAKER_02: The beautiful thing is it does happen today through the sacrificial, final, resurrected Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_02: But then there's a moment, this old body goes to the ground, we're up, and then there's a day when we get a glorified body.
SPEAKER_02: And man, I can't wait to see mine.
SPEAKER_02: It's got to be an improvement.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, one thing I've I've probably read this verse a million times, but never noticed this before.
SPEAKER_01: In 19, when it says the temple of the Lord was open in heaven, and it says the Ark of His Covenant was seen in the temple.
SPEAKER_01: And we know that the Ark of the Covenant disappeared at the last destruction of Jerusalem and hasn't been seen or heard of since.
SPEAKER_01: And archaeologists have searched everywhere.
SPEAKER_01: Is it entirely possible by this that the Ark of the Covenant was taken into heaven and is no longer on the earth?
SPEAKER_02: That's a very good question.
SPEAKER_02: Is it entirely possible?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: It's possible.
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's there's three main ideas where the Ark of the Covenant is.
SPEAKER_02: One, it got destroyed in battle.
SPEAKER_02: It got destroyed, and there is no no such a thing as the Ark of the Covenant anymore.
SPEAKER_02: Two, and I I I do not mean this to be disrespectful to anyone, but there is a belief that it is in this obscure temple in Ethiopia.
SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean that to be disrespectful to anyone, but I have a very hard time with that one.
SPEAKER_02: But that's my two cents.
SPEAKER_02: That's this, that's that.
SPEAKER_02: There's people that have actually gotten more closer to that than what some may claim they don't get close to it.
SPEAKER_02: And it I just I don't see it there.
SPEAKER_02: There's others naturally that thinks that the Jewish people have always kept it hid for hundreds of years, and they've kept it hid under the city of David.
SPEAKER_02: Now, uh does that make sense to a degree?
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
SPEAKER_02: The city of Jerusalem now is the elevation that it is, is not the elevation that it once was.
SPEAKER_02: The city of Jerusalem has many layers.
SPEAKER_02: And there's tunnels down below.
SPEAKER_02: They just opened one up a couple years ago that you can go underneath and see, and it was one of the tunnels of David.
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of these tunnels underneath the city, a lot of these caverns, and they're still discovering these every single day.
SPEAKER_02: I've even heard someone before say that they believe the Ark of the Covenant was in Jerusalem, but specifically at Golgotha.
SPEAKER_02: You know, could that be the Ark of the Covenant?
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
SPEAKER_02: Is it?
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
SPEAKER_02: I have no idea.
SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting concept because Moses was given instruction to build the temple or the tabernacle as it was to the pattern of heaven.
SPEAKER_02: So there's also a point of view that when Moses builds the Ark of the Covenant, he built it because there was already an ark there.
SPEAKER_02: That pattern, it was a um copy, an exact copy.
SPEAKER_02: So there's that side of the possibility as well.
SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, I have no idea.
SPEAKER_02: Any other questions?
SPEAKER_05: Okay, I'll get you and then uh I just want to go back to um the two witnesses, who you thought they they were.
SPEAKER_05: So you're saying that uh Elijah and Enoch, because they both had not died.
SPEAKER_05: So you're you're I'll make an argument for Elijah and Moses, but on Enoch, you're saying that uh for uh to every man is pointed to death once.
SPEAKER_05: Um is that correct?
SPEAKER_05: And that's why you believe that that Enoch fits that that in there.
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
SPEAKER_05: Um we're we could both be right, we could both be wrong.
SPEAKER_05: Uh it doesn't really matter, it's flipping hairs here, but let me give let me give you an argument for Elijah and Moses.
SPEAKER_05: Um Elijah and Moses, they're at both at the transfiguration.
SPEAKER_05: So they're both there when Christ came the first time, so kind of like uh uh I just like to believe they're kind of like there uh right before his second coming, also.
SPEAKER_05: And so we see the similarities in the um uh miracles and uh the things that they do, you know, with uh Elijah with fire, Moses with the plagues.
SPEAKER_05: We see those similarities, so it's easy to kind of argue that.
SPEAKER_05: But also um it just seems you know, Elijah, he was constantly um constantly preaching and constantly press uh pressing Israel.
SPEAKER_05: If Baal be God, serve him, if God be God, serve him, serve him.
SPEAKER_05: So he's got that, he's got that witness already, he's got he's got that in him.
SPEAKER_05: Um Moses also um you know, serve the Lord.
SPEAKER_05: You're a bunch of you know, stiff-necked people, you know, serve the Lord, forget the you know, the golden calf.
SPEAKER_05: You're you're really on the wrong track here, you know.
SPEAKER_05: If uh you know God is God, serve serve him.
SPEAKER_05: So they got those those two testimonies.
SPEAKER_05: And so going back to Enoch, yeah, I I get it, I understand that you know they it's appointed a man to die once, but um, I think these guys fit a little bit easier.
SPEAKER_05: And the last argument would be, yeah, Enoch, um, he was translated.
SPEAKER_05: Um, we don't really quite know where where he is in all of this, but um, there are other people who are not going to die.
SPEAKER_05: Uh there um uh as as if we've finally come to the end of all things and there is a resurrection you know from the dead.
SPEAKER_05: Of course, the scriptures do say that um that all will not all not sleep, but there will be, you know, those who are alive and remain will be caught up together also with those have died first.
SPEAKER_05: So there are gonna be some people here on the earth that actually never tasted death.
SPEAKER_05: Maybe you know they went through a lot of problems, a lot of horrible things, but yeah, they did not taste death.
SPEAKER_05: So that's just my my uh my argument, you know, for Elijah and Moses.
SPEAKER_02: And I like it, and I think it'd be even funny if we find out it's Enoch and Moses.
SPEAKER_02: And Elijah just lost out.
SPEAKER_02: No, I like it, and you bring up the point about when those that survive at that.
SPEAKER_02: The only thing I would ever say is you got to know what specifically is happening in that timeline and why that occurs.
SPEAKER_02: That is a big player in that.
SPEAKER_02: The problem, again, that Enoch has is we just don't know a whole lot about him.
SPEAKER_02: But there's got to be something about him that made him so crazily unique that God just took him.
SPEAKER_02: And it's strange.
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
SPEAKER_02: Hang on one second.
SPEAKER_02: Hang on, I'll come back to you.
SPEAKER_04: Sorry to context switch, but it's one of my big things.
SPEAKER_04: Um, the the idea that modern Jews are not genetically connected to uh late Iron Age, early Bronze Age Jews.
SPEAKER_04: They've recovered, geneticists have recovered DNA samples from late Iron Age, early Bronze Age uh Jews in the area and have done the genetic comparisons.
SPEAKER_04: And the modern day Jews are at least more, even the most ones with the most mixture are at least 50% genetically Jewish in continuity with those samples that they recovered from the late uh Iron Age, early Bronze Age, right?
SPEAKER_04: So going back to the time of King David.
SPEAKER_04: And so it genetically doing mitochondrial studies and and different kinds of Y chromosome studies, they've they've compared those genetic samples and they have, and it's well documented.
SPEAKER_04: It's it's not controversial among the geneticists, only among the political people.
SPEAKER_02: And that's a very important identity at the end, the political side.
unknown: Yes.
SPEAKER_05: My wife rolled her eyes and said, Do you have to?
SPEAKER_05: I just want to go back to uh you made such a such a wonderful thing about uh the them giving gifts after the the beast uh killed um the two witnesses.
SPEAKER_05: And uh um and they're so happy that they gave uh gave gifts to one another.
SPEAKER_05: And of course, you know, we I think you made mention that when um when Jesus came, you know, the real uh the real Christ came, you know, they you know, gifts were given.
SPEAKER_05: But uh as you were talking, as you're speaking that, you know, this thought just came came to me that uh why they might have given gifts to one another also, not only because they're happy, because they're now relieved from all these plagues and you know all these things are going on, but it kind of reinforced, I thought about it, it reinforced that Satan came, the dragon came and said he was God, and that was the that was the lie.
SPEAKER_05: And by the beast killing the two witnesses, it kind of reinforced that delusional lie that you know Satan or the dragon is is God, and the dragon gave his power to the to the beast.
SPEAKER_05: And they immediately, when that happened, they all said, no one can make war with the beast and prevail against the beast.
SPEAKER_05: And so now here the beast finally kills you know these uh these two uh witnesses that gave them problems, and it kind of reinforces the lie they believe.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we are right all the time.
SPEAKER_05: Satan is God, this is God, and uh the beast is, you know, no one can make war with the beast, the beast destroy these two guys.
SPEAKER_02: I love that thought.
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, we never discussed this.
SPEAKER_02: Who's the beast?
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's too confident, are they?
SPEAKER_02: All right.
SPEAKER_02: Homework.
SPEAKER_02: Next week, find out who the beast is and go ahead and find out who the dragon is.
SPEAKER_02: And Pastor Comes and I'm coming.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: I keep every time you mention those gifts given, it it makes me think of something super important.
SPEAKER_06: The devil he perverts everything that we have.
SPEAKER_06: We have been given gifts in celebration of who we are in Christ.
SPEAKER_06: We have been given gifts.
SPEAKER_06: The enemy tries to take the gifts, but he cannot.
SPEAKER_06: Take the gifts, he cannot.
SPEAKER_06: And as I'm sitting here thinking, I'm thinking about everything God gives his sons and daughters.
SPEAKER_06: He does not allow provision for the enemy to take them, to take the things he gives us, he does not allow the enemy anyway to take what he has given, sons and daughters of God.
SPEAKER_06: He gives us our family.
SPEAKER_06: We can we can put a demand on that.
unknown: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: That it the enemy cannot have our families.
SPEAKER_06: If you're if you're fighting for your child, the enemy cannot have your family.
SPEAKER_06: That is a gift from God.
SPEAKER_06: As sons and daughters of God, I'm thinking about everything God has given us that the enemy is trying to take from us.
SPEAKER_06: We have legal rights as sons and daughters of God to keep them.
SPEAKER_06: To keep them.
SPEAKER_06: Talk on that.
SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
SPEAKER_02: I know we also talk about the fruit of the spirit, and and it's not necessarily gifts, but I I want to say this.
SPEAKER_02: I believe the greatest mistake we make is separating the fruit from the gifts.
SPEAKER_02: And we have people that are reckless because they don't have the fruit.
SPEAKER_02: So that's the only reason I'm I'm adding that in there.
SPEAKER_02: Um I think this absolutely opens that door of how far those gifts could potentially represent the manipulation of the enemy and how easy it is for mankind to not recognize the authority that is given to them because of the blood, the name, and you know, it is Christ in you, is the hope of glory, right?
SPEAKER_02: So Christ is in us, no doubt.
SPEAKER_02: But I think sometimes we fail to remember how important it is that we grow and mature so that we that people are able to recognize the Father as well.
SPEAKER_02: Jesus said, if you want to see the Father, you've seen him because you've seen me.
SPEAKER_02: And we also know that God is looking for those whom he wants to reveal himself to.
SPEAKER_02: So if we negate the authority, if we negate the name, if we negate the power of those things, we're gonna be open access to the enemy to come in and I'm gonna say it this way because I think it's I to pervert what is holy.
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02: And it will appear as though it is her holy, but is perverted.
SPEAKER_02: So with that, look who the beast is, look who the dragon is, look who the woman is, by the way.
SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be important in the next couple of ones, and then eventually we'll get to some other ones on that as well.
SPEAKER_02: We'll go down the list.
SPEAKER_02: But the beast is mentioned here, and we're gonna see, and we're gonna see going forward, we're gonna see why Satan hates Israel.
SPEAKER_02: And if you can't figure that out in our day and time, and I don't mean that to be belittling towards anybody, I'm just saying we all saw the Holocaust, right?
SPEAKER_02: Why in the world did a German dictator decide to take out that people?
SPEAKER_02: Germany was not Israel.
SPEAKER_02: Now, granted, Israel wasn't a nation then, there were Jews everywhere, but it's just crazy to think about.
SPEAKER_02: Now we live in a time where people are actually denying the Holy Ca Holocaust ever happened, which is just madness to me.
SPEAKER_02: Now we live in a time where we're being told that Israel doesn't matter and that it is a Palestinian state.
SPEAKER_02: Well, before it was Israel, it was never Palestine.
SPEAKER_02: Palestine has never been.
SPEAKER_02: The only reason, and this is where man can not listen and get into a lot of trouble, the only reason that Palestine ever had a plot, a land in Israel is because Israel gave it to them.
SPEAKER_02: And when Israel gave it to them, they opened up their own Pandora's box because it's never enough.
SPEAKER_02: Whatever you give the demonic, it's never enough.
SPEAKER_02: They'll take it, they'll take it, they'll take it, they'll take it.
SPEAKER_02: And it's why now I just saw the other day, I promise we're ending right here.
SPEAKER_02: I just saw the other day, the person that's supposed to be um taking over Nancy Pelosi's spot went to one of the pride um parades and they turned on him.
SPEAKER_02: Now, the one that's supposed to be for you, here's the problem.
SPEAKER_02: When you give, and I'm not calling individuals the issue, man's never the problem.
SPEAKER_02: But when demons use bodies, when you give demons that much authority, it's never enough.
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna take more.
SPEAKER_02: And they eventually do turn on their own.
SPEAKER_02: We're also gonna see this, by the way, in the Bible as well, in Revelation.
SPEAKER_02: And which is cool, think about Jehosaphat.
SPEAKER_02: That's not a one-time event.
SPEAKER_02: There's gonna be some turning on and just killing and all that.
SPEAKER_02: So, with that said, it's getting more and more exciting as we go forward and more intense, and there's there's timelines that is gonna kind of jump every once in a while, and we're gonna try to keep it all in order, but where we're headed, there's still glory, and it's just such a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_02: So, who are the two witnesses?
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
SPEAKER_02: I think we're gonna be shocked.
SPEAKER_02: It's Enoch and Moses.
SPEAKER_02: No.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's Adam and Eve.
SPEAKER_02: No, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it it's it's it's fun to think, it's fun to discuss.
SPEAKER_02: That's what makes this great.