Selling Fresh Air - The Reality of Off-the-Plan Property Sales

Selling Fresh Air – The Reality of Off-the-Plan Property Sales
Guest: John Bone – Win Projects

In this episode, we unpack what it really takes to sell property before it even exists.

Glen sits down with John Bone from Win Projects to break down the reality of off-the-plan sales across land, house and land, and apartments in Hervey Bay.

This conversation goes beyond the surface. It covers how the market has shifted since COVID, what buyers are doing differently, and why land has become one of the most in-demand assets in the region.

We also dive into the practical side of selling off-the-plan. From building trust with buyers to managing timelines, expectations, and market uncertainty.

In this episode, you will learn:

•  What off-the-plan sales look like in today’s market 
•  How buyer behaviour has changed since COVID 
•  Why builders are now driving demand 
•  The impact of land shortages in Hervey Bay 
•  How affordability is shaping housing choices 
•  What buyers are actually purchasing off-the-plan 
•  The role of disclosure plans and contracts 
•  How apartments are sold before they are built 
•  What is influencing buyer confidence right now 
•  Where the market is heading next 

If you are buying, selling, or developing, this gives you a clear view of how this part of the market works.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Fraser Coast Property Brief, the podcast where property, development, and business leaders share what's really happening across the Fraser Coast. Each episode brings you insights into local projects, market trends, and the people helping shape the future of our region. Welcome to our latest episode of Fraser Coast Property Brief, and today we're going to talk to John Bone from Wind Projects about selling fresh air, the reality off-to-plan sales. This episode is all about off-to-plan selling, including land, house and land packages and apartments. We explore how the market evolved from the pre-COVID days and the growing influence of the builders in the market and challenges of selling property that's 12 or 18 months before its completion. So we talk about the biopsychology, the affordability, the product mix, and the future of the housing market and Fraser Coast. So today we're going to explore this with John. John has been with Wind Projects for over 20 years now, so and we've gone through iterations like Night Frank days where we're selling different things. So give us a little bit of background about yourself, John.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Oh background is I was originally a farmer, so in Victoria, dairy farming and and beef cattle. So been buying and selling beef cattle since about the age of 16. So whether you're selling land or whether you're selling houses, whether you're selling anything, it's all the concept's still the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

At least somebody could touch the cow back in the old days. Now they can't touch the offland.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

So I moved up here in 2001, so been here nearly nearly maybe 25 years just about, which is a long time ago. So no no uh no farms left in Victoria, they all went in 2021 because I battled to get back down there for probably the previous 10 years, so um so it's just all real estate now.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

So, John, we call you the specialists in selling fresh air. Um, so off the plan selling is a it's a very specialized product and a very specialised agent that actually sells it. Not many can do it, and very few survive at it. Um what's what's the real challenge of uh selling off-the-plan?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Well, most real estate purchases that people make, it's probably one of the top three that they ever do in their lifetime. So that's the first part, is to get them to sp spend the money on something that is fresh air and they can't see it. So that the challenge is actually being able to get somebody and be able to have them visualise their block of land for a start, which they can't even see, with their house on it, and effectively they're sitting on the old fresco in the morning sun with the paper or an iPad and coffee. That's the challenge. Once you can get someone to be able to imagine that's what they're doing, then that's they can see themselves buying it.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

So when you have to s uh stand on a cow paddock, top of the hill, and saying your block's over there, about half a kilometre that way, and it's got to look like this, uh, what's the resistance in the buyers of understanding the reality of that?

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Well, you do need to you you do need all of the the plans with you, which I know is disclosure plans and the estate and what it is, it always helps. Um you know, originally the Springs Estate which didn't exist at all. On the other side of the hill, that was probably the biggest challenge. Once you've at least got one stage there, then you can say this is what the rest of it's going to look like. So that it makes it a lot easier. But when it's uh a blank canvas, that's probably the hardest point to get it started.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

All right, so let's go through some sequencing now. Or you know, we'll go through the process of selling and and all the rest of it. But let's go back to the changes of pre-COVID to COVID and what's happened here in the last five years. Pre-COVID, market was slow, um, people very resistant. Post-COVID, um, the buyer behaviour shifted. How how has it changed in your world?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, it's it's probably made off-the-plant selling much easier because pre-COVID there was always there was generally some availability of land. It wasn't the scarcity that there is now. So people they could always generally find a title block or something not far away, even though we did sell off the plan then, um we would have most of it gone by the time it was titled, but there was always still, you know, the odd one available. Once COVID hit, people decided to less people in less in houses. So I think there was something like, you know, even though the average household went from like 2.5 to 2.4 per cent, it was something like 180,000 people had to find homes. So that created demand, then the influx of visitors and overseas and expats. So then the the availability of land became scarce. So then people started to um get used to not being able to find something, and then also then knowing that it's probably gonna be 12 months out before they get something, and that's really the reality of where it is today. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

So in in today's world, uh what's the time frames? Is it 12, 18 months, something like that, for from when somebody buys the block of land to when they're actually going to get the land, and that's before they start building?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

If somebody came to us today looking for a title block of land, it will be somewhere between 12 to 18 months, won't be before. And what another six months to build? And then you'd be at least six months to build. So if uh if you had an estate ready, say February, March next year, um, they would probably be it would probably be at least six months before they'd be moving into the house, which is probably what September, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

So how are buyers managing that when they're actually got to predict two years in advance before they move into the house? They're either got to rent somewhere or they've got to sell their house before they start. So how how does this process get managed?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

It's not for everybody. So anybody that does need something much shorter term than that, then they'll go and buy something that's already built. Um people that you know that I see that they say, Oh, I've put my house up for sale, I'm ready to sell. I said, Well, okay, what's your plan B when you sell it? Because there's no land. So have you so be prepared to, you know, cash is always king, be prepared to rent for six months or twelve months, especially if they move to town. It's a good idea to rent for six months so you can actually work out where you really want to be in the town and which estate you want to be in. But they people now um there are a lot of people that 12 months, 18 months out does suit them. They might want to travel, they might need to save more money. So if the land they know they don't have to pay for it for 12 months' time can afford a deposit, but they know in 12 months' time they'll they'll have the money ready to go. So it does it does suit some, it won't suit everyone.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

So, how do they deal with or how do you deal with the expectations and time delays and communications? Because you know, are you getting talking to them monthly or people anxious every week or what's the problem?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Oh look, people will call, but they communications key. Um we do updates, monthly updates, which we need to get from the civil contractors because there's and since COVID, there's been delays in everything. So that's helped. I think that's actually it doesn't matter what it is, there's just delays and everything, wet weather and certainly in construction, um, with the volatility that there's been with uh construction companies and land being available, but it's letting them know monthly where everything's at. So if there's going to be delay, let them know. Don't try and uh the worst thing you can do is just say nothing. Um you do need to regular updates is the key. And expectation at the start. So you need to really qualify that when they say, look, this is when we expect it to be done. There'll be monthly updates and you know, but uh if it's a 12 months, that 12 months could lower out to 15 months. We you know there's no guarantees.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

All right. So it seems the market's got a land sorties at the moment. We we just don't have title to land, and you know what I can see it's probably still another 12 months way before there's any sort of catch up. You know, how's it in the market right now with actual land people can build on?

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Unless you'd secured your land generally, unless you've secured your land now or you've secured it 12 months ago, there'd be very few blocks of land that you could go and buy now as a title block. It's um the whole the scarcity of land here that our the I think with COVID what it's done, it's it's probably with Harvey Bay, we've probably jumped forward potentially 10 years to, you know, in two or three to for demand. And our our town planning team hasn't kept up pace. So most land is either soaked up and has been developed or in the process of being developed and has already been forward sold. So I think you're going to be I think we're a few years away before you could go and stand in an estate and have six blocks to pick from that are titled.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

All right, so um housing product versus affordability, we seem to be getting into a mismatch. Um we're still building a lot of bigger houses, four bedroom houses, um our population growth is aging. A demographic says we're an average 51 years old, uh, we average 2.1 people per household. Um there seems to be a real mismatch in our housing product, and I'm talking about you know the whole product on the market. So, how how are you seeing that?

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Uh definitely, and I I'll talk to builders about it quite a bit that typically want to build the four-bedroom uh media room double garage when, as you said, 2.1 is the average people per household. And we get a lot of people moving here, and the ones that affect it the most are the the younger ones. Certainly, if you want to attract a younger demographic here to work in hospitals, work in health, whatever, there might be one or two. They don't want to share a house with four other two or three other people, you know. So they want I think I think the gap in this market is uh the the two-bedroom, the two-bedroom and an office. You know, I think that's the real gap in the market. One, it's affordability, also it's there's a I think it's a major gap in the market for servicing just those people. That could be retirees too, downsizing that you know they can't afford to go into some of the lifestyle villages and they need something a bit smaller. So I think there's a massive gap in this market.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

All right, uh one of my previous podcasts we talked to Ward Feach about the new town planning scheme, and there's a term in there called gentle density. Council's trying to make smaller blocks, um, do duplexes, triplexes. Um, you know, we sell off the plan on various products. Are you seeing a swing back towards either apartments, townhouses, terrace houses or something? Is is there a swing happening in the market to a different type of product?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

I think uh there will be a swing. I didn't at the moment I don't think we've got the product, the product is not there for them to swing to. Yep. Um there will be, uh and and that's what's going to be happening over the next 12 months or so, but we're following if you look at the Sunshine Coast, Brisbane is a massive demand for that type of product, and that's where we need to lead to next. And I think our town planning scheme is going to adopt that. All right.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

So do you think it is apprehensive from the development industry and the developers to actually change the swing, or is it just caught up in the planning process, or you know, why are we so slow to the market for everybody else?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Well, the planning scheme hasn't allowed it in the past. So it hasn't allowed it hasn't allowed that product to be built here. So I think once that's enabled to be changed, there's massive demand out there for duplexes, huge demand for duplexes. Um we can't supply enough land for duplexes, it's as simple as that. So um I think if the planning scheme changes and it's a little bit like once the first one does it, then other developers then will follow on. But someone has someone's going to need to lead the way, especially terrace houses. I think terrace houses got single-level rear loading terrace houses have massive potential here.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

All right, so just anybody doesn't understand what a terrace house is, it's houses that are basically zero line on on separate lots, so there's no body corporate. They have their own tidal block of land. The block might be seven and a half metres wide. When they say rear loading, they have a laneway at the rear, and the double garage comes in from behind, so there's no real backyard, but your your small front yard becomes your backyard essentially.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Terrace housing, you'll see them in the cities, you'll see them on the Sunshine Coast where you know the the house is set back three metres, you've got a bit of garden in the front, and through a gate to the front door, and the rear of the block is where the cargo. So um we really need to to go that way. One is you get density, you see there's a 50 mil gap between the walls, there's no body corporate, so it is your own block of land, but a builder needs to, they're generally in a batch of about seven, and the builder needs to construct all of those seven and then sell them either finished product or sell them off the plan. You can't just go and buy a block and do that. But I think there's huge potential for that.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

So selling built form, um, you know, when you're selling a block of land, you say, you're a block's over dead, and you know, dirt's dirt, so there's no real finished product there, but people can sort of imagine it. How do you sell an apartment or a house land package off the plan and explain to people the detail of what they're actually going to live in? Because it seems to be very different.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah, I think you do need really good renders and artistic impressions of what the end product's going to look like. And also um fairly well itemized list of inclusions of for the property, but you if you can if you can actually your rendering your render is the key. You need to be able to show what they're buying, that's the artistic impression needs to be pretty close to what they're gonna get. And then it makes it much easier. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

And so let's go through the process. We're selling off the plan. Um, you know, a lot of people are foreign to it, so they get you know scared and sceptical about what to go to get. So, you know, you go down to a you know buy a secondhand house, you know, you've seen it, you get it, and you just get a normal REIQ contract or something, you buy something. Let's start with the contract and how detailed it is for an off-the-plan selling for a buyer. Well, it's pretty detailed.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Um so and it's something you'd go through with your solicitor and look at, but it will have itemized all of the all of the inclusions, all of the architectural plans. It'll show you um and and these disclosure plans that have to be put into the contract, unless the builder builds it to within um, well certainly with land it's within within a few percent, uh you actually to be that you need to provide something that's going to be practically exact to what the finished product is going to be. So if you differ from that greatly, then your buyer can um not complete because it it's not what you said you were going to provide. So that's why the accuracy of your contract of of whatever your uh whatever your inclusions are, your architectural plans are, your disclosure plans have to be uh what they're going to get.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

So a disclosure plan that's a survey plan that a survey does, nominates the exact block size, nominates contours over the block.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Yeah, so with land it does. Yes. Yeah, so with land, uh your survey plan will show all the measurements. It'll be the width, it'll be the depth, it'll be the contours, any fill levels if there's fill there, what your fill heights are, any services, um, if there's any easements running through the property, retaining walls, power, sewer, water. So it will show all of that. Um and you've only got a 5% tolerance at the end. Um it'll show the lot size, everything there. So with apartments and buildings and houses off the plan, so you've got architectural drawings which are done by the architect, which the builder has to build to, um, plus the inclusions that are included, whether it's floor coverings, you know, right down through to painting, colour of colour of tiles, colour of roof, colour of everything, um, and they need to provide that. They don't provide that, they've either got to make good to to make it to that level, um, or you'd have grounds to not proceed.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

All right, so it's a couple of things beyond that. Um stick for the apartments for a minute. Um, so when when they go through and buy the apartment, um they they see all the inclusions, everything else, um what about the quality of it and everything else? How do they you know get a feel of comfort that this is going to be built what a set of drawings is?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Well, they can if you look at some parts we're doing now, so there's there's uh if you look at the the the stove, the dishwasher, the range are all Bosch Series 8. So they can go to they can go to Harvey Norman, they can go online, they can look up this this product anywhere under the schedule of finishes, they can actually Google and have a look to see exactly what it is, and and they can really and before they would sign up, most probably would do that and be comfortable themselves with what they're getting.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

So and beyond the uh plans and that, it's also body corporate. So how what's set up in the body corporate before they actually start?

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah, so the body corporate is which is uh uh an independent body which is regulated by state. So they the body corporate will there'll be three parts of body corporate, which is the administration fund, the sinking fund, and insurance. So that would be all printed out to what the body corporates are for each particular apartment, or whether it's commercial or whether it's residential. Um and the they usually have a quantity surveyor will look at that and say, well, what will this building need over the next 10, 15, 20 years? So they'll set an amount for a sinking fund that will be paid each month, and that goes in for capital expenditure. 20 years' time for needs a new roof, that'll all be factored in. So that's how they set their sinking fund up is what sort of repairs and maintenance will need to be done on the property, and then you've also got your administration fund, uh, which is to do with mostly administering it, but also any external cleaning and maintenance of common areas, um, can be gardens, can be car parks, etc. And then you've got your building insurance, which covers all the building insurance, building and pests is all covered by the body corporate.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

All right, and in blocks of land, if I wanted to buy in one of the estates and you know I've got in my mind that I'm going to live in this beautiful, pristine estate, and uh, you know, I want to build a 250 square metre really nice house. How do I know that somebody's not going to build a hundred square metre dumpy next to me? And you know, what what do covenants do to protect that?

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, so the the covenants or building guidelines for a state is they'll every estate is different, but they will have uh in there a minimum size to build. They'll have um, you know, the last thing and covenants for estates it's really to protect the integrity of the estate. So you'll have nobody wants a a vehicle sitting on four stumps in the front yard. So there's got to be mechanisms to make sure that doesn't happen. So uh you you don't want someone just building a shed and being living in the shed in the caravan where everybody else is building, and you also don't want every house uh being built over a 10 or 15 year time frame. So the the main things in the covenants will be a time frame to start a build, which is generally used to be 12 months, it's it's out to 18 to 2 years before you need to start, you'll have 12 months to finish. Um you'll need to there'll be a minimum size, you can be as big as you like, but the springs originally was 240 square metres. Um house prices have got a lot more expensive, so some of your build sizes are coming down in the states because one the amount of people living in there, but number two, it's it's purely the cost, um, and that also is balanced around how big the land is. Um and then all but and b all builders have to follow these covenants. So that really is to stop someone living next door in a caravan in an old shed. Um, it needs to be a new home. You can't bring on um older houses that have been removed and and set up on so with new estates, uh you really just want it to be new homes and new buildings. Um and and council will also follow that too. You can dictate how many duplexes you were allowed in the state or whether you have none. Um, and obviously that's to do with land size, but uh, even if the land size is big enough, if the covenants don't allow it, then the council certainly won't pass that.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

All right. So one final question of uh selling off the plan. Um there's a thing called Sunset Clauses that protects the buyer. Explain what they actually mean.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Sunset clauses are 18 months. So when you sign the contract, if that property hasn't been completed and titled within an 18-month time frame, you can take your deposits back and leave. Um the laws have changed recently where at 18 months uh either the developer could terminate the contract or the buyer could terminate the contract. Now at 18 months, with legislation has changed that the developer they cannot terminate the contract at 18 months. Um it's really up to the buyer whether they want to proceed or whether they want to wait.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

So it's pure buyer protection. I noticed during COVID period that you know escalating costs would go up, so the developer would just slow down the development, let the 18 months crash and start again. So this stops the developer doing it.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Yeah, it was two things. One was the escalation in costs, but also prices really took off and doubled. So they were missing out on the price rise, but costing twice as much to build. So yeah, uh there were a certain didn't happen here, but certainly south. Yeah. Major cities it did. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

All right. Um Um let's just talk about a couple of economic factors in the market at the moment. We've got rising inflation, uh interest rates going up again, we've got a a war in Iran raging, petrol prices through the roof. Uh what's that doing the buyer confidence at the moment in our local market?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

I think um I think there's two parts. Uh I think you've got people that are already in the market, probably over mid-50s, have already got real estate, uh certainly not as spooked as much as the people in their early 20s, early 30s, you know, two little kids and a mortgage. Um so it's it's probably a little bit too paced. I think what will happen, you know, in the larger scheme of things in years to come, it'll just be a blip like COVID was and like the GFC was, but at the time it can be fairly horrendous for people involved in it. Um I think people at the moment are uh sitting back and waiting a little bit and watching. I think waiting for you've had a double whammy really. You've had interest rates go up a quarter of a per cent, but I think that the impact on fuel prices is gonna be far greater than the um than the interest rate rise, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

So do you think it's gonna change any long-term outlooks for our region at all, or is it still No, I th I think long term, no.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

I think short term, I think people are just gonna be a little bit more reserved in making a decision. They'll think about it a little bit longer. So, you know, the market was quite has been quite manic for some time. I think it'll take a bit of the heat out of the market, but long term I don't think it's gonna it uh I don't think it'll make any difference, no.

unknown 23:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

All right, I think that's about a wrap. That gives you a good overview of what off-the-plan selling is all about and how John sells fresh air and gets paid handsomely for it. Um all right, thanks John from Win Projects, and um don't forget to follow and like our podcasts, or we're on YouTube as well. Um, and we'll see you for the next episode. Thank you.