Fraser Coast Property Brief
Fraser Coast Property Brief is a weekly podcast exploring property, development, investment and business across the Fraser Coast. Hosted by local industry professionals, the show features conversations with developers, agents, investors and decision-makers shaping the region’s future, with insights into market trends, projects and opportunities.
Fraser Coast Property Brief
Youth Retention & The Future of the Fraser Coast
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Fraser Coast Property Brief – Episode 10
In this episode, we tackle one of the biggest challenges facing the region right now. Keeping and attracting young people.
Glen sits down with Cr Sara Faraj, Division 9 Councillor and President of Fraser Coast Young Professionals, to unpack what is driving young people away and what needs to change to bring them back.
This is a practical conversation grounded in what young locals are saying, what they are looking for, and where the gaps still sit across lifestyle, housing, and opportunity.
In this episode, you will learn:
• Why young people are leaving the Fraser Coast
• What would make them stay or return
• What the younger generation expects from a place to live
• The role of nightlife, food, events, and social connection
• Where the region is falling short on activities and culture
• The real challenges around housing and affordability
• Why smaller, low maintenance homes close to lifestyle matter
• How education pathways align with local job opportunities
• Which industries need to grow to support future demand
• How the Fraser Coast needs to reposition itself to attract younger demographics
• The role of Fraser Coast Young Professionals in building connection and opportunity
• How the FCPIA x FCYP Mentoring Program is supporting the next generation
This episode looks beyond property and into the future of the region. If we want long term growth, we need to create a place where young people choose to live, work, and build their future.
A must listen for anyone in property, business, or community leadership who cares about where the Fraser Coast is heading.
Disclaimer: Sara shares her personal views in this episode. She joins the conversation in her role as President of Fraser Coast Young Professionals. These views do not represent the official position of council.
Welcome to the Fraser Coast Property Brief, the podcast where property, development, and business leaders share what's really happening across the Fraser Coast. Each episode brings you insights into local projects, market trends, and the people helping shape the future of our region. Welcome to the Fraser Coast Property Brief. This is episode 10, and we're going to talk about youth retention in the future of Fraser Coast. So today's episode I'm focusing on lifestyle, I'm focusing on housing, jobs, where we want to position the region. And my guest today is Sarah Farage, Division IX Councillor and President Fraser Coast Young Professionals. Today I'm really focusing with Sarah about young professionals and Sarah as a young professional herself. So this is more what the youth want for the future. So welcome, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01Thanks. Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_00Yep, so we might just jump straight into it. We have got a youth problem here. The two of us have been discussing this for a couple of years now. Fresco's got a medium age of 51. The most significant growth since COVID is 65. And we've got a youth deficit between 18 and 24. So why are the youth leaving?
SPEAKER_01There's lots of different reasons, but most of all, there's a few significant reasons. First of all, lack of leisure things to do, recreational activities to do here. We've got a few fantastic businesses, don't get me wrong, but you know, when you nut down to the nitty-gritty, there's a a lot of things that we do miss out on here in the Fraser Coast. Another thing is housing and the different typologies of housing. We're oversubscribed in the four-bedroom, two-bathroom, but we don't have a lot of the more like townhouse, smaller lot housing that we're sort of trying to head towards in the future. And a lot of the time young professionals, especially people in the medical field or the legal field, don't want to maintain a lawn, don't have time, potentially aren't ready to yet have children, so they want that easier maintenance option for them. Another thing is, of course, tertiary education and those opportunities. We've got a fantastic university and TAFE campus, but the offerings and courses that you can partake in here just aren't subservient to potentially people staying here. Yeah, those things as a combination and also as individual factors really contribute to people leaving after school. I know when I graduated in 2019, over 70, 80% of my cohort left almost immediately.
SPEAKER_00Alright, well let's let's break these down into segments and let's start analysing each one. So let's talk about lifestyle culture and events. That's a big one. I've been here since the 80s, which makes me a bit older than the young professionals. But we had more venues in the 1980s. We had Melanesia Village, we had nightclubs, we had convention centre with a thousand people, we had Above the Place, which was Twisted's Night Club, Paleba Hotel, bars, most of them are gone. And when I look at the events coming into Harvey Bay now, we've got we get old rockers on the seafront oval, which attracts the over 55s, or we get car rallies. That to me wouldn't appeal to somebody 25. So what are we missing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly what you just said. And when I speak to people that have you know lived here their whole lives or have been here for a very long time, they say exactly the same thing. When they were younger here in the Fraser Coast, there was so much more to do than there is now. And you know, not everyone wants to go out to a nightclub and and you know drink alcohol and go home at 3 a.m. in the morning, but it's nice to have those options. It's nice to be able to consider that, you know, if you want to go out on a Saturday night that it's not silent and everyone's not in bed. Um absolutely correct with with the events, but also when we're thinking about youth and young families, when it rains here on the Fraser Coast, there's not really a lot to do. We can go to Stocklands, but you know, I know that there's someone looking at opening like an indoor play centre, that would be fantastic. But yeah, when you break it down, we've got the wet side, we've got an amazing aquatic facility, but when the weather is bad, which we we do, we get lots of rain seasons, what do people do with themselves?
SPEAKER_00Well, even wet side, it's really for under 10-year-olds because you know it's a zero, zero depth pool, and we don't have a lagoon, we don't have anything for those teenagers, early 20s to lay around, you know, with an open bar and things like that. Um, so what's the year for this generation looking for? It's it's not the pubs, as what you know, we we seem to have a change in culture away from you know drinking and just going to pubs and you know, drink driving's a major thing. Um, so what's the different types of venues we should be having? Indoor recreation you mentioned.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Indoor recreation. I know that there's been a lot of those pop-up, especially in Brisbane, of course, um, where they can be an indoor play center by day for children, but at by night they have you know adults-only nights where you can participate in any form of recreation, whether it's jumping on trampolines or climbing rock walls. In a post-COVID era, a lot of people, especially the younger generation who missed out on so much during COVID, um, are focused on life experiences, going to their we're in an experience era rather than an object era. People are less focused on, you know, buying fancy things. They're more focused on living while they're young. So they want to they want to go out and have a nice coffee, they want to go to a run club, they want to go out maybe for a couple of drinks. They don't intend to, you know, be out all night, but they would like to go somewhere where they feel like it's a space for them and you know they're going to be entertained where they can you know have a dance on the dance floor without sort of feeling a little bit creeped out potentially. Um yeah, somewhere where they can just gather and talk and play games and things. It's really quite simple. Um, just want to feel welcome and have a space that's for them that you know they're not going to be judged in or or you know have people that are much older than then come and encroach in that space.
SPEAKER_00It's it's a big opportunity here that I think the business community is missing out. I was in Rockhampton last week, and they're opening a brand new rock climbing centre in the middle of the CBD. Um they've got a really good cafe in there. Uh we'll have a bar in there as well, just for drinks. But you know, it's a two-story venue, and they've got they've got a screen upstairs with uh you every mountain in the world that you can look like you're climbing those mountains. So it's a really good thing, and uh they're the things we need here.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00All right, let's go on to housing. Um, you know, this is a sector that we've been in, and and the main reason behind these podcasts. Um I think us as an industry have been focused on four-bedroom, media room, eight hundred square meter block for decades. Um we've got 12% medium density, where the state average is about 24%. We have not made that um right turn to actually start building houses for the next generation. So, what does the younger population want in a housing product and where do they want it?
SPEAKER_01I think um like, and it differs with everyone that you speak to. Like for me personally, I don't like the smaller lots, I don't like any of that stuff. But when I talk to people out in the community, when I talk to professional people that are looking to purchase their first home, they absolutely do not want the four and two. Um, especially those people, like I mentioned before, that are, you know, working really long hours, whether it's a med medical, legal profession, or any other profession really, they want something that's easy to maintain. They want something that has, you know, easy access to parkland where they can walk their dog or do participate in their run club. They want something that, you know, they don't necessarily have to mow a lawn. Sometimes a lot of people really like balconies and open spaces that are like confined, that are private, that are just for them. Um, yeah, they just want something that's easy to maintain, smaller than the average house, that they can just lock up and go and be out in their community, really.
SPEAKER_00So, what about location? Yeah, is it the Esplanade the big drawcard for the younger generation?
SPEAKER_01Or yeah, absolutely. The Esplanade is a huge draw card because it's it's where you can go and have a coffee and and meet with your friends and go for a walk. Um there's a lot of emerging like mothers' groups now that I see on the Esplanade all the time, you know, all sort of coming together to go for a walk and a coffee and connect on that common common bond that they share. So yeah, it's really nice. Yeah, I think connectivity is really important. A lot of these blocks may not accommodate for you know more than one car space. So people have got to think about active transport. Are they gonna bike to work? Are they gonna you know get on an electric scooter? Are they gonna walk? Yeah. Yeah, if they're over 16. You know, are they gonna walk? Are they gonna jog? We're trying to also promote that um by making sure that we are connecting our active transport corridors so that people can have that option if they wish.
SPEAKER_00What about affordability issues? Um, you know, our market's probably jumped 60, 70 percent since COVID. Uh, we're getting at that breaking strain point that the entry property is getting too uh expensive for the younger generation to get into. Is it a major concern?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. You only have to open any social media app to see it's almost become kind of satire in a way. Like a lot of young people are like, well, oh well, I'm never going to afford a house anyway, so even without having my avocado on toast, I'm never gonna be able to do it. So what's the point? Right. So you do have a generation of people that are pretty much giving up before they've even started, um, which is really sad and disheartening. And then you've got a generation of people that are probably unhealthily obsessed with getting there and maybe sacrificing a lot of other things, including starting a family, for example, actually having a wedding, or um, you know, staying like purchasing with their parents' help or their grandparents' help, or putting themselves into insane amounts of debt just to be able to say they're a homeowner and just to get out of that rental market.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're seeing a divide getting bigger as a nation, and especially you know, the the haves and have-nots in the baby boomers giving the next generation a start, and the ones that don't, you know, they're getting so far behind. Um Bank of Mum and Dad. All right, let's go on to education and jobs. Uh so our biggest sector is health with 22% of population or workforce in the health, about 10.6% in the construction industry, then the third one's retail. Does our education match our jobs?
SPEAKER_01Not at all.
SPEAKER_00All right, so what can we do? What are we doing wrong, and what can we do different?
SPEAKER_01I think across the board there are a lot of different players, whether they're, you know, the high schools, we've got the jobs Fraser Coast, all of the agencies, the uni, the TAFE, um, the levels of government that can see the issue, have identified the issue, it's being spoken about, and a lot of I think the schools independently and the education providers are trying to solve it on their own, which it just isn't working. However, they should be applauded for the fact that they're actually just chipping in and trying to give it a go. I think um, you know, with the education precinct that we have in the middle of Harvey Bay, and we've got you know all sorts of ideas coming around with what's going to happen with the old library building once we've um vacated and gone into the new council administration building. We've got um the state member wants to bring TAFE into the center of the region and co-locate the university and the TAFE. We've got um the university, of course, they've they've made a huge investment down in Sunny Coast, so they're really struggling up here in the Fraser Coast. So we've got to try and consolidate all of the effort that's happening, I think, into one fit-for-purpose model and definitely increase the subject allowances, especially in the medical sector. We want to keep those students here, we want to keep that and and foster and really assist that homegrown talent. We've got the you know, the University of Sunshine Coasty, then we've got the University of Queensland Rural Clinical Medical School, like all of these universities and education providers should be collaborating as one, you know, and putting out these programs with synergy rather than it's just feels a bit discombobulated at the moment. And I don't think there's any one person in particular to blame. I just think like so many things in the Fraser Coast, it's just everyone's seen that there's a problem, and rather than collaboratively solving it, it's just kind of gone by the wayside and each individual person's trying to solve it as best they can.
SPEAKER_00We have drifted. I've been involved in that university since they opened about 1996. Um and you know, what David Lee's doing now trying to get the tape down, I think that's a fantastic idea because what was always missing in that university was uh student accommodation. We were going to do this over 20 years ago. Um, if you get student accommodation around and you get people living in the heart of the CBD, your nightlife starts to work because you know a small bar will be affordable, the cafes make money, or you know, the dress shops got retail trade walking past, you know, with the council chamber, that's gonna make a massive difference to the CBD. Absolutely. If you get a connection between the the medic the uh precinct of the education in the council, and you've got your community stuff in the middle, um, it could be a game changer for education. But they've got to get the courses right.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And we need investment. There needs to be investment made into the CBD from all levels of government because without the money, it's great to talk about it, but without the investment to back it um and to back the vision and actually turn that strategy into real tangible product, nothing's gonna change.
SPEAKER_00All right, so let's talk about vision. Um, if you're in charge, um how would you rebrand the Fraser Coast? You know, like we've got a perception, you know, we were at a caravan capital of Australia in the 80s, and we've got a perception it's the right retiree destination now. How would you rebrand the Fraser Coast to attract younger people here? And you know, especially that message probably in the 25 to 40 year old young family, come here, get a career, medical, whatever else. What would your branding strategy be?
SPEAKER_01Great question.
SPEAKER_00Not as a councillor, just as you, as Sarah Farage.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I've been banging on about this both as a counselor, as president of young professionals, just as an average lady down the street for years now. Um but I think you know, from what we put out as a region in terms of branding, right down to you know the billboards as you drive in. Like as you drive into Tyro, one of the first billboards that you see is for the Fraser Shores retirement village. And then before that is a very, very small, you know, pokey on the side Jet Star billboard that is a bit too busy to read. So if it were me and I was rebranding this region, I would um change, you know, all of the images. I would have young young people being active, you know, paddleboarding in the great sandy straits, you know, on um on the island, having a good time, running on the footpath of the Esplanade with young families at our playgrounds, um, talking about how much of a relaxed, laid-back lifestyle we can have. So where you can achieve your dreams, um have a professional career, but also raise a family. Or if you're a young person, you know, participate in your community, part of recreation, showing off all the different types of sporting clubs that we have here, all the natural wonders that we have here and the things that you can do. That would be the way that I would rebrand it. Um, as a place where we've got so many small businesses that are trying to diversify and offering so much in terms of, you know, just the eateries alone, the way that people are trying to diversify. Put those things on the map. Show the community that we've got choice here. You know, we've got choice of education in terms of schooling. We've got the natural beauty, we've got the laid-back lifestyle, and why why wouldn't they want to live here? It's a vibrant community, and we just need to continue pushing it in that direction.
SPEAKER_00So the life, you know, we have got lifestyle, we've got one of the best climates, we've got very flat area, great outdoor lifestyle. But what about career? How do how do you how do you track that? You know, even council has the problem, and we have it as as the industry, we can't get engineers, town planners, whatever up here, and and you can't get specialist doctors. What's the catch to get a professional up here to expand their career besides the lifestyle? What's what's the other reason they should come up here? Is it education, safe family, or or why? Why would they come here?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think for a lot of people, um something that does stop them is one person may get a job, but then their partner, husband or wife, whoever they may be, struggle to get a job up here after they've moved. And so they end up packing up and going where somewhere where they can both get a job. So I think it's about s in a way, it it goes back to selling the dream, to showing them that not only can they have their career here, that we are trying to become a community full of professional people that, you know, take pride in their job, take civic pride in their community, that want to do more than just go to work and go home. I mean, we've got huge volunteering rates here compared to the Queensland average. And so when you've got a community that likes to participate and has civic pride, then I think that sort of encourages people to come up more. It's a bit of a tough question because it depends like on the industry as well that they're coming into. But I think for people, you know, it's not just the job anymore, because we've all realized after COVID that life's too short and the world is very unpredictable. So it's about selling them the dream, you know, what's in it for them if they've got children. We've got some of the best schools, like for example, Fraser Coast Anglican College, best regional school in Australia. We've got that right here in the Fraser Coast. So if you want your child to have a good education, then they've got that. We've got people that are from Harvey Bay and Maryborough that have been in the Olympics. So if you want to, you know, get your child is in interested in sport, we have Olympians that have lived here before. We have a legacy here for your family. So I think yeah, it's about selling the whole the Fraser Coast as a package. You want heritage and history, you can go to Maryborough and walk the streets of the CBD and find out about you know how this community came to be.
SPEAKER_00Alright. So let's go into the next phase of that. Frasco Young Professionals, you're the current president of that organization. Yep. Tell us a little bit about it, what it does, and you know, why you're involved in it.
SPEAKER_01So previously um the Fresco Young Professionals existed and then it lapsed. So there was um actually some of the current counsellors that I work with now were part of the committee, and it was just about, you know, mentoring and and letting the current young professionals of the community know, and future upcoming professionals that they were supported, you know, they were welcome here, that this was a safe place for them, and also networking, connecting them, you know, boosting them, trying to push them to be the best person that they can be. It lapsed for about five years, and um I noticed the gap when I graduated high school and sort of entered the professional workforce here in the Fraser Coast that when I tried to attend Chamber of Commerce uh breakfasts and events that I was really like looked down on, and people even went as far as to ask me why I was there, because I was too young to be there, even though I was 18, 19 and entering, you know, the professional workforce. And I wanted to network with like-minded people. I wanted to meet people in the community, and so I found out that it had existed, and I decided that it was time to reinvigorate it, to make sure, because I could see the pattern that you know we're we're catching up to realizing now that if we kept losing the young people of the Fraser Coast, we were doomed. And so, yeah, I want to make sure that um they feel as though they've got somewhere safe to go, that they can meet people, they can network opportunities. We've had a few people that have actually gained employment from just coming to one of our networking events. Uh, we've recently launched the mentorship program with the Property Industry Association. And yeah, we want people to have a safe space and to understand that they are we are the future of this region and this country, in fact, and we've got to be at the forefront and make our voices heard and you know build each other up and make sure that we can support one another.
SPEAKER_00So what do you reckon the main function is? Uh professional education. Education or more so about the networking and just younger people getting together and being collaborative about their futures?
SPEAKER_01I think a bit of both, to be honest. One of our core events that we have done ever since we re-established is tax time tips because I don't know about you, but numbers overwhelm the heck out of me. And I know a lot of other young people that just sort of enter the workforce and suddenly you've got to pay tax and you've got no idea what to do. So we've every year we've done a tax time tips coffee morning where we get a local accountant to come and talk about some of the legislation that may have changed, some handy tips that you might want to know before you prepare your tax, what you should do during the year, keep a logbook, etc. etc. This year we're expanding that event and we're actually bringing into it Financial Advisor to talk about first home buyers, what you can access depending on your personal circumstances, whether it's a 5% deposits or the first home buyers grant, what you should be prepared for, things you should and shouldn't do, all of that stuff. So really about educating people and letting them know that we're all in this together. And yeah, and then also on the other side, the networking, just to get people to meet each other and chat and collaborate, and you never know what might might come out of those, honestly. They're amazing.
SPEAKER_00I want to give it a little plug. Tell us when it's on and where it's on, this tax time tips.
SPEAKER_01I don't have it in front of me.
SPEAKER_00So Fraser Coast Young Professionals got a Facebook and website that you get on.
SPEAKER_01So we've got a website, we've got a Facebook and an Instagram, and all our events are published on all three of those. We've also got a membership that we've launched recently as well. Very affordable, $30 a year. So you can't even go to the pub and get a feed for that. $30 a year, $25 if you're a student, and $150 for a corporate membership for five people or more.
SPEAKER_00That was pretty good. So Fradescrees Young Professionals and the Fred Scout's Property Industry Association have recently set up a mentoring program between two uh organizations, so you've got to be a member of one or the other to be part of this organisation. Um we've been conceiving this for a while together on different sides. It's up and launched now. So tell me what you want to get out of it or the young professionals want to get out of it and explain a bit how it can help and how they can use it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think um the concept of mentorship is really interesting, and I know we've had many discussions about it. It doesn't necessarily need to be a you know a standing appointment kind of thing where you meet every week and you you have an agenda and you discuss things. Mentorship is a transactional relationship. You can both the mentor and the mentee can gain something out of it, which I think is really important. And it's you know, it can be sometimes as simple as asking for advice on a business decision or you know, running a concept by someone who may have been through that same thing that you're going through, or you know, might have a different perspective and might be able to say to you, hold on, you know, let's let's really sit down and talk about this and have a think. So yeah, it's about knowledge building, really, to me, and um about boosting each other up and getting the next generation of young people, like I keep saying, you know, out there into leadership and and working out in the community and being supported and exchanging information. And I don't it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, an older, wiser person mentoring because each generation can learn from each other.
SPEAKER_00I can't, you know, like yeah, my generation can learn how to deal with the younger generation by talking to the youth, you know, because I don't know what you want until I actually have the conversation. So you know, I always say you you learn more when you're teaching. Um so it's it's a great thing. Uh we encourage go on either of the websites, um, you'll find the program. It's a free program. Um and there's probably about 20 mentors up, and you know, we're getting a lot of mentors through at the moment, which is good. So might close this up shortly. So get a closing question. What would you do to that you think would make the biggest difference to Fraser Coast to retain the youth? What's the one thing you'd change out there?
SPEAKER_01Pretty hard to do, but I'm chipping away at it.
SPEAKER_00You've got to have a dream.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's probably the mindset. Yep. The mindset of the community. Um from all perspectives. Like think of this as 360 degrees. Because as a young person, there are many, many times where myself or my peers will feel unwelcome in spaces. Or, you know, as soon as something happens for a young person, like even when we had a new shop open up for young, like young clothing in Stocklands, people were literally whinging and like, oh, they've got too much already. And I'm like, No, we don't, like, honestly. So I think it's about shifting the narrative. Like, and you know, for those people that may be older and um get upset that things may be changing, just remind, you know, you're once young too, and you probably faced the same issues, maybe similar, to what young people are facing now. It just looks a little bit different 20, 30, 40, 50 years down the track. So it's about shifting the perspective and you know, reminding people that everyone is welcome in a community, but what we want to do by changing the demographic and and balancing it out, really, is making sure that we have a sustainable community into the future. It's not about young people taking over the world. This isn't Trump. This is making sure that we have a sustainable community, making sure that when these people need care, they can get it. They're not abandoned in our you know nursing homes and aged care facilities, or we actually have nurse and doctor ratio to patients. That's what we want. We want a healthy, vibrant, caring community full of energy and enthusiasm, where you know intergenerational connection is is there, you can see it happening. And right now I don't feel that all of the time. I think there's quite a quite a shift.
SPEAKER_00I can't blame the young people for Trump. He's an old white guy trying to take over the world.
SPEAKER_01I know.
SPEAKER_00But it is, it's NIMBYism. Um, you know, like they've come up here, they're retired, they want to shut the door behind them, they don't want to change, so they want everything the same. But what they're not realizing, and I I'm a big advocate for you know the younger generation, I want them to succeed and take us over. What the older generation is not realizing here, unless you do things to attract them here and want them to stay, we've got you know a major part of our population over 55 that need medical health care.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, you've got about a you know, third of your medical health providers at the moment are gonna be retired in 10 years. You've got a massive, you know, 40,000 more people coming here in the next 20 years. We're gonna have no younger people in the nurses or the medical health care to look after them. So they're hurting themselves by this mentality of we don't want change. They've got they've got to stop being selfish about what's good for them now and look for the next generations. Not only about their health care, but it's their kids and their grandkids.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00You know, give them give them a future here rather than sending them away.
SPEAKER_01And you can't expect more but not want change either. Like so so many times you'll hear, you know, our public transport is awful, and I concur it is awful, but we only have a 1% uptake of it as well because the routes don't match up. But if you don't want to bring more people into the region so that there is recognition that we actually need better public transport, then it's not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00Then you've got to intensify the density, otherwise it doesn't work. You can't spread it over you know quarter-acre blocks, you know, ten miles out because um public transport doesn't work. So you've got to get a cluster within nodes to make public transport work.
SPEAKER_01And it's gonna cost more, and you can kiss your wildlife. Goodbye.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I know. So all right. Um I think um that's a great way to finish with um changing the mindset. Uh I hope we can between us and other people, you know, get a younger generation, get a new branding image, and get a new future for Fraser Coast. So that's the point. Thanks for joining us, Sarah. And uh thank you for your insights today.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00Thank you everybody for listening to Fraser Coast Property Brief. Um, if you want to check this out, it'll be up on Tuesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcast. So check it out and uh give us your feedback. Thank you very much.