The Civil Construction Journey - Why Land Takes So Long

Why does land take so long to create?

In this episode of Fraser Coast Property Brief, host Glen Winney sits down with Kane Macready from Engineers Plus to unpack the real civil construction journey behind new residential land.

Many people assume once a subdivision receives Council approval, construction starts straight away and titled lots follow soon after. The reality is far more complex.

Glen and Kane walk through what happens after a Development Approval, including Operational Works, engineering drawings, infrastructure design, Council assessment, tendering, construction, plan sealing and title registration.

They discuss where projects lose time, why civil construction costs have risen, what hidden site costs developers need to prepare for, and why housing supply involves years of planning, risk and coordination before families ever get to build.

This episode gives a practical, local look at the work happening behind the scenes to bring new land to market across the Fraser Coast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Fraser Coast Property Brief, the podcast where property, development, and business leaders share what's really happening across the Fraser Coast. Each episode brings you insights into local projects, market trends, and the people helping shape the future of our region. Welcome back to the Fraser Coast Property Brief. Today we're talking the civil construction journey and why land takes so long to develop. So today we're diving into one of the most misunderstood parts of the housing and land supply debate. What actually happens after development gets approved? A lot of people think once council approves the subdivision, bulldozers move in the next week, land titles appear in a few months, but the reality is very different. So to help unpack this, I'm joined by Kane McCready from Engineers Plus and works across civil engineering, operational works, infrastructure, and a lot of it. So welcome Kane. Thanks for having me. Maybe just give us a little bit of background on your history here. If you've got uh your own engineering firm and you were with Wide Bay Water before that?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah, that's right. So when I finished uni, I was a graduate engineer at Council at Wide Bay Water for four or five years. After that, I moved to uh Gladstone. I worked for Gladstone Area Water Board, which is a state-owned um corporation, I believe. Um, from there I came back and worked with a local consulting firm called Cardno. Um and then after that, for the last 15 years, I've been working at Engineers Plus.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Alright. So you've got a very wide experience with the local market. So let's jump into some of these real-world issues that we have. So, why is creating new residential land subdivisions so long and complicated?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

So there's a lot of process to go through. So once you get a development approval from council, it doesn't necessarily you can go straight into construction. So plans have to get prepared to make sure we comply with the development approval conditions. Um, there's Australian standards to deal with, um, and all that compliance that goes with it.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Right. So one of your favourite sayings is eight weeks. So how long does it actually take to get a um from DA approval to ready to start on a job?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

From DA approval to start construction, we're typically having to get survey, uh the survey has to be a 3D model, gets imported into our into our software. Um we then start modeling it up. So we've got to model the bulk earthworks, the roads, the stormwater, the drainage, um water, wastewater, things like that. So that process in itself, depending on the size of the job, you know, it is a is can vary, but usually eight weeks, twelve weeks, depending on the size of a stage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

And it's not just one consultant. You have you obviously you do the uh water management, sometimes you've got traffic engineers, you've got surveys involved. So it's a multiple of consultants that have got to work together over that period.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, that's right. So survey, geotechnical engineering, arm traffic engineering, perhaps some ecology environmental consultants as well have to get engaged.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yeah. So once you do that, um then it goes back to council for a thing called operational works. Explain that process process a little bit, will you?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, so once we comply with the development conditions, we prepare operational works plans. They get submitted to council as an operational works application. From there, council will assess our designs to see if they can meet their standard. Then might have some questions and say, Well, how how how did you guys go about doing this? We then have to explain ourselves to them. Um from there, council typically could take between eight and twelve weeks, possibly more based on their workload at that give any given point in time. Um from there, once they give the approval, then we then then then we have development and construction rights.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

So they use their own consultants or outsource it to actually challenge your like your water management runoff and things like that?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah, council um typically would assess everything in-house. If there's something a little bit more complicated, then they would go to third-party consultants.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Right. And um delays, if drawings are missing, um, is does that cause issues internally or or is it a pretty smooth process?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

It's usually a pretty smooth process. Like occasionally the council might want a little bit more detail on some component of the job. Um maybe they wanted to they would like to see certain offsets to retaining walls or boundaries and just have a bit more clarity on certain things, but never not normally their their big ticket items, usually stuff that can get sort of resolved in a couple of days.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Alright, so once you get operational works approvals, um you obviously have to assess their conditions, then go into what's called a pre-start meeting. Tell me that process before the civil guide starts.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yeah, so once we get the operational works approval, um the job can be tendered tendered to a construction company, tenders can be assessed. Once the developer and um determines which contractor they want to go with, we would then organise a pre-start meeting which gets essentially the contractor together, the engineer and council, um, where we would talk about the development conditions, the constraints on the site, um, and once we have that pre-start meeting, essentially it's it's all gums blazing for construction.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, so that's probably another two or four weeks post-operational works before you're actually physically doing anything.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

That's correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

All right. Then you get your civil guys on on site. Um typically what's uh 50 to 100 lots per stage in a development. What would that take a civil construction company to do?

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah, so depending on the size of the construction company, so that's part of that tender assessment, you're also assessing their capability to do the work. So for a 50 lot subdivision, that could take 24 weeks. Um if it's a hundred lots, it could be getting closer to the 12-month construction period.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Right. All right. So during that process of construction, the the civil guys have got their work to do, but what's the council's and the engineering consulting work during that period? It's obviously a lot of checks and balances.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah, that's right. So council will condition um engineering supervision um on any given construction stage of a project. So council's putting a lot of emphasis on engineers to come in supervising the construction, making sure they're constructing it to their standard, um, so that and also the engineering standards, because at the end of the day, council want an engineering certification from whoever's the engineer supervising it. Um council will will also undertake inspections throughout the process as well. So they have certain hold points that they will want to see certain aspects of the project.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, so things like road compaction and drainage pipes, things like that. Because at the end of the day, council get to own those assets once it's titled, and it's their responsibility. Um we'll talk about maintenance periods and that, but it's their responsibility long term, so they're making sure that their future assets are up to a certain standard.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

That's correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Alright, so how do how do you get the process to run a bit smoother? You know, sometimes we see very slow delayed projects. I know there's always things like rain and and those things, but is there ways that can make this process smoother between developers, council, and the consultants?

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah, absolutely. So um council always offer a pre-lodgement meeting. So you can do a pre-lodgement meeting prior to development approval, you can have a pre-lodgement meeting prior to operational works approval. So there's a lot of things you can do to help guide council through the process or guide other parties through the process. Um being ahead of the game and and you know, organizing survey early will always sort of help compress time frames. Um things like you know getting your survey early, prior, maybe even prior to development approval. If you're confident the development's going to stack up, you would go get a survey early. Similarly, for geotechnical assessments, you could go and engage consultants or contractors to go do that sort of stuff early.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Alright. So something that's come up very recently, especially since the war over in Iran, is construction prices dramatically jumping again. Uh things like diesel, things like poly plastics and that that jump 30%. Have you seen a substantial increase in cost? And is it right across the development or is it only in certain items?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Um pretty much right across. So anything that has fuel associated with it or oil associated with it. So obviously fuel for the machines that are the plant that's been operated on site is going to have an additional cost. Um poly and PVC are oil-based as well, so um those costs will also increase. There has I think there's been a bit of a stability over the last month or so in the market. Um, not all contractors are applying uh an additional rate under the contract for for fuel um increases. Um are, and they're completely, you know, under under our terms of our contract in particular, they're entitled to to those sort of um increases in in cost to be absorbed by the by the principal, which is which would be the developer. Um but generally since you know obviously we had a big increase in fees, uh, sorry, costs when COVID started. Yeah. Um, and that's somewhat equalised. I don't think we saw a reduction in prices, but it certainly equalized imbalance. Yep. And then similarly again with this fuel issue with with with um the war, um, I think we've we've seen a little bit of a stabilization, but probably watch this space.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Yeah. So, you know, a lot of the discussion news is that the pain still to come because this even this fuel shortage now is this gotta cause problems with production over the next three to six months. What sort of increase are you seeing in civil across the board? You know, is are contractors putting their prices up two percent, five percent, ten percent? Is there a general rule of thumb that's going up at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Uh it does vary per rate item. So I would say genuinely somewhere between ten and twenty per cent increase. Um it really is, it's a hungry market too. So the contractors are quite hungry, they're looking for work. So when you balance those two together, it it it's an interesting thing to watch. Um and I think it's quite variable and dependent on the timing and and what project it is.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Because twelve months ago, you really couldn't get a contractor on site. They were their books were full, and you just had to wait in line, and they were basically putting at whatever prices they like. Um, so that market's changed a bit over the last few months?

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah, I believe it's tightened up. So I think contractors are certainly more hungry. There's there's um perhaps due to the the government um and budget um as well as the war, I think things have slowed up slightly.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Um, maybe just the time of the year, but we'll see if things spit pick up.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

So it's not because of delays in getting developments out of council, it's more so that the actual developers themselves are slowing down in this market a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Uh certainly I think it's probably a combination of that. Combination of both.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

And do you see any labour shortages in the civil game at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, there's certainly across the board, like engineering-wise, there's certainly um shortages in of engineers in the country. Um there was some some evidence uh a year or two ago that there was 30,000 engineers short by uh 2030 um in the country. Um civil construction-wise, yep, there absolutely is um a shortage of labourers in the market. And I know that a lot of contractors are working through different processes to try to engage um more labourers into that workforce.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I don't think we can handle dealing with 30,000 more engineers around. Um, so let's talk about hidden costs. Um, you know, so civil guys go on there with some understanding, there's been some soil testing, things like that, but what happens when you get rock excavation or poor soils or weather delays or things like that? What what are the hidden costs in subdivisions that you know that the developer doesn't see or certainly the end user doesn't understand?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah, so the biggest problem we have um with i i is m normally subsoil conditions. So um under the terms of AS4000 contracts, they're latent conditions, you can't really foresee what they're going to be. So we can go do geotechnical assessments as much as we want. We might get a borehole every 50 metres, um, might even be more, but you don't know what's happening in between it. And so the quality uh, in particular on the Fraser Coast, the the quality and the variability of the material or subsoil is quite broad and can happen and change really quickly as you as you work across a project.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

So yeah, I'd you know I've been doing this for 40 odd years, and I know like you go down the the beach area or something and um you're in sand and it's tidal one or two metres down, and you go up to Point Vernon, it's clay with 30 odd percent expansion, you go up on top of Ghost Hill and you've got solid rock.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

So but it's not that so the problems with the rock is isn't so much the rock, it's also the stuff that's in between the rock. So we've had a lot of problems where we've got hard rock that so that developers and contractors are having trouble ripping the rock out, but then within five metres we've got this this plasticky clay that's really soft that we can't even build a road on. So then we have challenges with dealing with rock, then immediately right next to it, some really bad material. Um, and that uh happens more than you'd think, and more often than not, there's an issue on a site, subsoil that we have to deal with at some point.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

So when you're dealing with subsoil for the people not in the game, you'd have to dig down a certain layer and put um geofabrics down, road base or or different materials down to actually stabilize that soil?

SPEAKER_01 14:38

That's right. So when you go from a rock, a rock base, obviously that's really good for a road, it's a really good solid solid base. But when you go from rock to something a softer substrate, we have an issue with with that differing material. One could move, obviously, rock's not going to move so much, that other stuff can move, so we have to be able to bridge it some way. So we apply a little bit of engineering knowledge to it. Um, perhaps we're using some sort of geofabric to bridge it, maybe we're building a road that's a little bit deeper.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Right. All right, so the engine the actual process itself with civil construction is complex, it's full of delays, full of issues. Once you get that done, then it's finished and it's not that simple. We just don't hand over to somebody. What's the next step? You you've got to go on to a process called um a plan sealing process and handing over to council for maintenance. Explain a little bit about that process.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah, so there's so there's two applications following construction. The first application is on maintenance, um, that essentially saying to council saying that we're gonna take the asset, but um, contractor developer, you're gonna maintain it for the next 12 months. Right. Um as part of that process, um, all of the compliance documentation, all the test results, all the ads constructed material of all the things that were built throughout the subdivision are collated, handed to council for for them to assess as well. So make sure that we've ticked all the boxes. Um that on maintenance process normally would happen a week and two after construction is is completed. Um, and then once that applic on maintenance application is in and assessed by council, then the plan seal application can start to be assessed where you're titling the project.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

All right, so explain the plan seal a little bit. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

So plan seal is essentially getting the survey plan, so your boundaries of your subdivision, that's getting assessed and put into a title document. Um, so essentially you can sell a block. So you create the individual lots. Create an individual lot.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

So you divide up, so you get the individual lots, you divide up what's got easements, what's going back to council as roads, things like that. So a lot of people don't realise when they move into a new subdivision, it's actually the developer still paying for those parks or those drainages um to be maintained for 12 months after the titles happen or after the approvals.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah, that's correct.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah, yeah. So it is it is another um you know, burden and a cost as far as development goes. And then you get titles, then people can individually buy their blocks. And is that when the time frame starts from titling or a time frame starts when you get a plan seal from council for your 12 months?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Uh so 12 months is from when council accept the project on maintenance. Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

And what about the roads? Who's maintaining those roads for the first 12 months?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

The developer.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

The still developer as well. All right. Um so it's a lot more complicated. So when you look at a process and people understand why it's it takes so long to bring land on and why we've got land shortages. So we you know, we didn't discuss the first part today. We've I've discussed that previously with Ward Veach, which is the DA process, and a lot of that's nine to twelve months to get a DA. Um, you know, you got work you do in the early parts of DA, um, but once you get the DA, then that's when the operational works process happens, and you've got, you know, you've got six to twelve months in that sort of thing. You you've got eight to twelve weeks, depending on the complications, you've got um you've got other consultants, you've got to get it out to tender, you've got to do all those things, so it's a it's a fair period in there. Then you've got a construction period, another six to twelve months in the construction periods, depending on the size. Then you have plan sealing, then you have tidaling. So realistically, you know, it it's somewhere between the two and four years before somebody gets a block of land from when the developer has the idea or he buys the bush block off the farmer. Um, you know, is there a better way to do this or is there something that can speed up this process? Because we have got a serious land shortage here and basically across across Queensland in general, um, it seems a very antiquated, slow way of doing developments. How do how do you speed up this process?

SPEAKER_01 18:59

I I think the the the quickest way and easiest way to speed up is communication. So communication with um with council um and the developer and early engagement. So early engagement of surveyors, early engagement of engineers. Um pre-development, pre-DA, you're even you're even talking to your engineers on you know uh maybe maybe a month or two before council even know about it. So we're looking at layout development, we're looking at what's the best way to to to orientate these lots to make it easier to construct. Um I I think there's big there's not big savings, but there's certainly time savings to be had with early engagement of of consultants um and contractors.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

And and you get a better product too, you know, if all all parties are involved in it. You know, I see it a lot. I I see a a project given to me as a as a marketing person once I got a DA, I said, I wish you'd talked to me before you actually did all these because you know they're not oriented for the sign, they're they're they've got slopes on them that the builders don't want, all the rest of it. So all parties being involved from the very beginning helps. Um but also it gets rid of those requests for information. You know, council, when it doesn't have enough information, it's it really stops the process. They write a letter to you or to town planner or whatever saying I need more information that and that could what put them four, six, eight weeks onto it on any request.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yep, that's right. So as soon as there's an RFI it essentially stops the clock. So council stops all assessment, then it's up to the developer or the consultant or the planner to get back to council um with what they're after.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, and how long do you have to do that?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Uh I'm not entirely sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

I'm gonna say four to eight weeks.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, yeah, that's right. No, I look, I think it might be 30 days or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

So yeah, so every time this happens, um, and I see it a lot in DAs, people like especially smaller developments and a bit more that's mum and dad done, they try and cut the costs at the start because they don't want to spend the money, you know. Like getting a stormwater management plan from you might cost you know a bit of money up front, but you know what land you can get on there, and you're also stopping council and giving you a request for information or rejecting your approval.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

That's right, it happens quite a lot when we would get a plan and a development approval just given to us. Hey, in engineer, can you please give us a price for this subdivision? And then we would look at the conditions, we would look at the layout, and then we're like, why have we got this here? Like, and we're asking questions immediately, yeah, and then we're going back to the planner saying we don't like particularly like this condition, this condition, this condition. Can we do something about this? Because this is gonna one add cost and add time.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

And it's usually too late because they've already negotiated with council and council have given a final deal.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

So then if the if they're you know, like um if they're issues that can't get resolved, um, then you're having to change the development approval, which is gonna cost you another three thousand dollars, I think is the application fee with council. So getting it up front right up front early and getting the planner on board, the engineering board, and reviewing those conditions can really weed out a lot of problems later on.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah. All right, all right, that's good. So, you know, like this conversation does explain a bit about housing affordability, um, also explains why we've got land shortages, it's because the whole process is so complicated and so long. I don't think many end users actually understand that, you know, they they see somebody like me marketing and whatever else, and they might be six months out from title. They don't see there's probably three years of work to actually happen to get to that point. Um, you know, and in since COVID and the recent years, we're selling land that's 18 months out uh before tidling because um the the demand is so high. Um and it is a problem, and I don't think it's gonna get fixed quickly, um, but we've got to do something a little bit better, and we're and and like you said, communication with all parties and even council in the early stages, and it's also a thing called SARA, which is the government referral agency. So as soon as you get near a main road, is it what it's 200 metres from a main road road, then then it becomes a main roads referral agency. You've got vegetation referrals, what other referral agencies do you come across that you have to deal with?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Um, so yeah, the the big ones are main roads um and then Dead Sea for the environmental, and if there's any environmental issues or overlays that have to be resolved, um waterway barrier works is a is a problem that always crops up because if it's a mapped waterway, um the the government do want specific engineering outcomes, so we have to be careful on on that we don't want to miss a referral because that looks really bad and that can delay the process even further.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

So it's that more about water quality going into their waterways.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

It's more about habitat for fish. So you uh waterway barrier works is just really you're putting design in place so fish can move in two directions. Right. And other things as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

But yeah, it is a complicated process. All right, I think that might wrap it up. Gives us a you know have viewers a bit of an insight on engineering. Most people think you sit in a dark room and it's a boring game, but it's not actually, it's uh it's an integral part of our housing supply. So uh thank you, Kane, for joining us today. And check out this podcast on Facebook or YouTube or your Spotify or your favourite channel. So once again, thanks, Kane.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Thanks, Clay.