Beyond Whales and K’gari: What Comes Next for Fraser Coast Tourism?

Tourism has long shaped the Fraser Coast economy, but what needs to happen next?

In this episode of Fraser Coast Property Brief, Glen Winney sits down with David Hay from Staywise Advisory to unpack the future of tourism across Hervey Bay, K’gari and the wider Fraser Coast.

With more than 30 years in hospitality, tourism operations, resort management and regional tourism boards, David shares a grounded view of where the region is performing well, where the gaps sit, and what needs to change if the Fraser Coast wants longer stays, stronger visitor spend and a more resilient year-round tourism economy.

The conversation covers the strength of the domestic drive market, the growth of Hervey Bay Airport, the need for more land-based tourism products, the impact of the K’gari name change, higher-end accommodation opportunities, and why a stronger tourism vision matters for local businesses, investors and the wider community.

From whale watching and World Heritage experiences to five-star hotels, food tourism, public spaces and red tape, this episode looks at what comes next for one of the Fraser Coast’s most important industries. David’s outline frames the episode around tourism growth beyond whales and K’gari, with a focus on practical recommendations and future priorities. 

The numbers behind the conversation show why this matters: the Fraser Coast recorded 845,000 domestic overnight visitors, 2.61 million domestic visitor nights and $719.2 million in total domestic visitor spend for the year ending December 2025. International visitors stayed longer on average, at 5.8 nights, showing a clear opportunity to build stronger product, accommodation and packaging.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Fraser Coast Property Brief, the podcast where property, development, and business leaders share what's really happening across the Fraser Coast. Each episode brings you insights into local projects, market trends, and the people helping shape the future of our region. Welcome back to the Fraser Coast Property Brief. Today we're looking beyond property alone and into one of the industries that shape our economy, our identity, and the demand for accommodation, investment across the Fraser Coast. We're talking about tourism. My guest is David Hay from Staywides Advisory. Welcome, David.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Good evening, Glenn.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

David has spent what about three decades in hospitality in this area now?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, a little bit longer, actually. Same age.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Alright, well we won't go right into your age yet. But uh involvement on tourism boards, which I was on a tourism board review many years ago. Um leadership roles in Kingfisher Bay um on Fraser Island on Gary. Um now works with owners and investors and operators to improve performance of their hotel tourism operations. So we've got to understand a bit about David's story. Um I want to test the Fraser Coast tourism, where it's really at. Uh we'll look at the latest visitor numbers, the strengths, what drives our market, um, some of our record passenger numbers through the uh airport, the change of name from Fraser Island to Gary, what it actually means. Um so we're gonna go through all that in depth. So, first of all, um let's talk about you, David. Let's talk about your tourism journey. Um tell me a little bit about yourself and what you've done over the years here.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah, I guess uh originally, Glenn, I was sort of a hospitality uh kid, grew up in a in a country pub in Tassie. That's why I live in Queensland. Uh so I was really from a young age involved in hospitality and some time of the army, but then I fell back into hotels on the Gold Coast and landed here in Harvey Bay in 1992, which was um uh a bit of a um uh a much smaller town in those days. I remember famously, or not famously, but but memorably driving down Main Street and walking into the chemist and said, Can you tell me where Harvey Bay is? And I said, Well, you're here. So uh some things haven't changed too much in terms of we're still looking for the CBD. Yeah, exactly. Um but yeah, I was here from 1992 working at uh Kondari Resort. So had a year in England also working in hotels and then uh back worked for TAFE for a while, then in the year 2000 started working on Gari or Fraser Island, as it was then, uh, for a little company called the Fraser Island Company. It had a small property at Happy Valley and a small touring business. Then in 2004 I moved across to the Kingfisher Bay Resort Group, um, and then I took over management of that in 2011. I became the group general manager, and I did that until uh 2023. Uh new owners C Link bought the business in 2018, and that that was a great time. I I just loved the island, still got a real passion for it. Um it was a great business, very challenging business. Um a very large business, very seasonal. We'll talk about that in a minute. Um but then I moved into a role, a corporate role with C Link as the executive general manager, and I was there for three years doing that role uh until April this year when I I uh left that role, left corporate life and decided to smell the roses a bit more. And I I really was um uh wanted to get back to my roots and get back to working with with business owners and operators in their businesses and hopefully adding some value and solving some problems. And so far, so good. It's it's early stages, but I've got a couple of clients on board and I'm really enjoying it. Uh a bit more work-life balance, but also uh probably not having that day-to-day pressure of of the actual running the business, but I can go in and cherry pick and and hopefully find some areas that need improvement and and uh yeah, it's great. And I and I'm really uh just determined to to remain in this region. That's another thing that's happened over the years. I've had opportunities to move away um with my career, but I I haven't done it and I don't want to do it. I I love living here, I'm passionate about the region and um what it's become and what it can become. So yeah, hopefully I can um continue to play a role.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, we're both the same on that. Um you've been on a lot of tourism boards and advisory around the air um over the years. Um Fraser Coast Tourism is it's morphed. It was uh Fraser Coast Opportunities for a while. So you spent many years on those boards, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was originally on the Fraser Coast South Bennett Regional Tourism Board. Oh, right. Used to spend some time out in the the South Burnett at meetings and things. And yeah, and yeah, look, I I I think the tourism board um it's a it's a really tough gig. Um it's much maligned. I think people have unrealistic expectations about what what tourism boards can do. Sometimes people within the tourism board have had unrealistic expectations about what they what they should be doing. Um from my perspective, it's it's primarily its role is to promote the region and grow visitation. It's not an economic development agency. We tried that with Razer Coast Opportunities. Um and I think uh sometimes internally and externally there can be a view that it's there to do things that it's not. It has a fairly small budget when you compare it to other tourism bodies around the state. There is a lot of duplication of of tourism bodies as 14 RTOs, I think 13 or 14 in regional tourism organizations in in one state, which kind of doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I think there are opportunities for more amalgamations, but that comes down to local governments and and funding. I think the Fraser Coast Regional Council has funded um um Fraser Coast um tourism well. Uh and you know the events have got a uh got got a bit mixed up with events, and I think went in a bit of a wrong direction for a while. I I I think it's back on on the right direction. Um the the new CEO's a really good guy, come up, Simon's come up from Victoria. I think he's got a lot of potential, and I think primarily it's a marketing, a promotional organization. If it could stick to that and we can keep funding it and get more um industry and operators involved, I think it's got a really bright future, but but it's um it's an easy dog to kick if you like, and it it doesn't get anyone anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

So yeah, everybody's got to look after their own business, and they can't keep blaming tourism board because they don't have numbers through their doors. Exactly right. Um tell me a little bit about Staywise Advisory, your new business. It's very recent. Um what is it actually do?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, so I I guess I've sort of tried to focus on I I can provide services to businesses that want want to implement change. So they've they've they're not happy with the way things are performing in a particular area, and that's the two two clients I've got at the moment in particular that I'm I'm doing uh work with in those areas. So it's really identifying areas that aren't, or they might they know what's not working, but that they don't know why, or they they need solutions. So going in and having a really good look under the bonnet if you like, so that's part of it. Um change implementation, so they might be acquiring something or changing direction or implementing uh a new direction for it as well, uh, as well as owner's representation, so if people own assets that don't personally operate them themselves and have management involved, and they want someone to give them advice and guidance, whether it's a one-off or an ongoing um relationship, so that's the type of thing that I that I do as well. And uh also interim management. So if somebody, if they've got perhaps a gap in their in their management of their business and they need someone to come in and sit in the chair for a little bit uh and perhaps make some changes at the same time. So trying to really work in that in that um accommodation, food and beverage, obviously island resorts. I've got a bit of experience in, but also with my ceiling background with transport and logistics as well, so I I can um can help them there as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

So you're sticking to tourism business as Ali?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, well, no, I I wouldn't say that. I I think that's where my expertise lies, and and I could look beyond that, but but I I think there's probably the most opportunity for me to help within tourism and hospitality, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah. All right, let's jump into tourism. Um, you know, the question is is Fraser Coast tourism actually improving? Uh there's a lot of numbers out there. Um some of the numbers are picking up to we have about 845,000 domestic overnight visitors, uh about 2.6 million visitor nights, uh average domestic stays about 3.1 nights, um overnight visitor spends about $567, uh day trip spends $151. You know, so total spend from a visitor is $719. Um then we have international, about 77,000 international tourists, uh 447 international nights. They stay longer, 5.8. Um you've been in it for a long time. Are those numbers fairly true or what's going on the ground and has it been improving over the years?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah, uh it's it's a really good question, or they're good questions. I I think are the numbers correct? I suspect not. I I don't think 77,000 international visitors is accurate. I think and it's it's just very hard to measure these things now, particularly the way people travel. You know, some people um hop in a uh hippie camper or uh whatever there's that those vans that they drive around and how do you measure them? How do you capture them? So the statistics are are are quite fluid, but um has it improved? I mean there's one thing in there if you look at domestic visitation first, 3.1 nights. Now, if we could grow that to four nights, for example, uh that would have a massive impact. So so and obviously 3.1 is a figure that's arrived at because a lot of people come for a two-night stay on a weekend or whale watching or whatever it is, but our domestic um market is pretty much half of the domestic visitation comes from Southeast Queensland, Brisbane, if you'd like, Brisbane Gold Coast. Um the other half comes from uh with the intrastate, comes from regional Queensland, and then we've got a pretty good interstate market, which is growing with flights that I'll talk about in a minute. But but I think if if you think about, okay, if our goal was to grow from 3.1 to 4 for domestic tour, domestic visitors, um, that's great. How do we do it? Now that that that is the real problem, it's product. So access we're fixing uh in terms of uh airline flights, direct flights from Melbourne and Sydney are great. Brisbane's still a bit fraught, but it's got a bit better in the last 12 months. But um when they don't cancel, but anyway, um I think competition on that route would be.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

What about the road going around Gippy now, picking up 20 minutes? You know, you're you're you're getting three million people in southeast Queensland. Yeah, we're supposed to go around uh Tyro next, which is delayed again. Um is that having a big impact? Because we do fundamentally have a drive market, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, yeah. I I I think sadly what's yeah, that that has had an impact, but then fuel prices has had a had a a negative impact as well recently. So it shows you how vulnerable we are. But what I'm getting at is is that if we had more things to do here, more draw cards, we're relying on GARI, we're relying on nice beaches and fishing and walking on the Espinade and and whale watching. Um whale watching's a very short season, and I I think we have to diversify the product and and that the offering so that people people are pretty sophisticated travellers these days, and our competition, have a look at the stats. I had a look yesterday at the stats for the for the Sunshine Coast. Now, the Sunshine Coast is getting like four million visitors a year. Well, three and a half, actually, I think it is. So, so how do we tack into that? How how do how do we and you're right, the drive is less. Now, if you talk about driving from Noosa now, it's closer. So, how do we get people that maybe fly into the Sunshine Coast Airport and have some time at at Malulla Bar or somewhere and then come and stay three or four nights on the Fraser Coast, but we've got to give them a compelling reason to do it. We we've got to have a you know, um without a cheap shop, but you know, you've got to be able to have dinner later than 8:30. Um you have to have uh a div a diverse range of products. Now we don't have all weather products in Hubby Bay or weather tourism attractions in Hubby Bay. We need them. Yeah. Um and and that comes back to I'm not into council bashing or or uh at all, but but I think what we need to do is we need to have a clear picture and some vision about what the region could be and how do we build. I'm probably answering another question now, but but how do we uh how how do we grow that? So but back to visitation nights, uh sorry, length of stay and the number of nights domestically, that should be a goal. Internationally, I think the figures are flawed, but again, why are international visitors here and when are they here? And and the other thing that we're seeing is a lot of seasonality, and that's really hard on businesses. So yeah, you're staffing, you're fixed costs. So so we've we've got to fill those those troughs, and we've got to do that by diversifying the tourism product. But I think as our our our share of the market in Queensland is pretty static. So as as Queensland's grown as a tourism destination, so have we organically. And the other big thing here is visiting transit relatives. As as the you know, as as the uh the place has grown and the population's increased from in the 20 odd thousand to 75,000 in the time that I've lived here, um that then naturally you get a lot more of that. But what do people do? How how do we get money out of their pockets if they're staying in in private homes, which these figures don't don't really capture? Um, how do we then get them into that visitor economy and spending uh and and that's the challenge?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yep. So yeah, our flight market's increased a lot, and I think it's at the best it's been. We're about 240,000 uh passenger movements in 2025. Um airport's getting up, it's getting another upgrade very shortly. Um I've noticed that over the years, um, involved in those upgrades, and I built part of the terminal many years ago. Um, but I'm seeing it more because of our our migration is you know about 2,500 a year, and we were getting a lot of New South Wales migration over the years, and we've had Victorian migration brought preview to that. So a lot of that domestic flights and direct flights and big family visiting. Definitely. Um but what I'm seeing in the numbers in the construction side and the sales and that at the moment is we're getting a real change in the demographic. They're now coming from Upper Gold Coast, Morton Bay Shire, and one of the biggest increased markets recently is Sunshine Coast. So that's gonna change our potential domestic tourism, isn't it? Like you're saying, how do we capture them out of the Gulf Coast? Yep. So it's not a matter of them not being able to get here anymore, it's a matter of what do they do when they get here. Spot on. What's missing? Yeah, what's missing on land-based tourism?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yep, and and if you consider you know that the Sunshine Coast great great place, um, got very busy, very frustrating to drive around these days, but also Malulla Barma, Richard, etc. There's a lot been a lot of development. So we we we offer a more pristine environment. Um, but again, how do how do we tack onto it? So uh uh from a marketing point of view, I think we should be tacking onto that Sunshine Coast brand and we should be collaborating with them more, not seeing this competition, particularly if you're coming from from Melbourne or or or um Milan. Um if you're coming from overseas, it's a bit like you know, two states in America or two counties in England, you know, fight fighting for market share. That's not how they should work. It should be a journey. It should be, we should be, we've had some over the years, some some driving trails and those sorts of things, and I think that's the kind of stuff that's key. I I I also think the Maribor Heritage Precinct has got m amazing potential. If you look at what's been done in Victoria, so some of those, um, Sovereign Hill and those sort of places, I I think it's uh the jewel in the crown, um, and it's already there. So so you know, it doesn't it wouldn't take a lot to really uh put some funding into that and and develop more product around it. Uh and again that gets people moving throughout the region as well, which everyone benefits from.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yeah. So we've you know, we I've talked about a lot in the podcasts and over the years, we've got an aging population, uh, we do get the baby boomer market with caravan and all that. We really need that young market, a 25 to 30 year old young family market. But, you know, and I talk to my staff and things like that, there's not that much for them to do when I get here. If there's if there's a bad day of weather, because we're all about water-based tourism, while watching or boating or going to Fraser, if it's a bad day, there is no big land-based tourism, there is no Australia Zoo, there is no movie world type thing. You know, what's the one magic thing that we can actually plop in here that would actually start filling in those bad tourism days?

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Look, I I I think it it mightn't it mightn't exactly meet that market, but one of the big gaps we've got is we don't have a world we've got a World Heritage Site. Um it's an um it's one of the most iconic places in the world. It's something I'm obviously biased, I worked there for a long time, but Gary is is absolutely a fantastic spot. There is the only interpretive centre for the World Heritage Site is at Kingfisher Bay, and it was built with with Kingfisher Bay's money privately. Um there's no proper World Heritage Visitor Centre. Um I I to me I think we should be activating the Boat Harbour. I know that's everyone says that Rob Borbitch was the premier in I think about 1994 and came and gave us a bucket of money and said off you go. And and uh um anyway, that that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Meeting Rod back then.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, so so so it's uh it's uh every time I run anywhere, I mention it and he laughs about it. But it's true, it's sad, but but we've got opportunities and we've we've got that building, that great Sandy Straits Marina building, it sits there doing nothing. Um it's quite a big building already. We could have a whale watching experience in in terms of an interactive theatre, those types of things, so we get 12 months out of it. Like um, should it be a a brewery? I don't know. I mean, you know, go go to go to places in WA, Bunbury, um, for example, you know, and they they're just so alive, but they've kept they have they haven't they haven't sold the farm, and I don't think we need to do that. I I think we should be having, I mean, you know, Enzo's is iconic, we should have dining on the beach. You should better do it like Jim Byron Bay and Bali, um, those sorts of things. We've got a north-facing beach with no surf, which could be seen as a disadvantage, turn it into an advantage. You could do something here and have a unique experience, food and wine and produce. Um, we're we're not really known for it. We could be. Everyone knows what a Harvey Bay scallop is, but try and buy one in Harvey Bay fresh. For example, I'm not just being negative and critical here, but I see opportunities in that market. We don't grasp it. Yeah, and and look, um, the what we really need, to be honest, and I know it's controversial about the height of it, which isn't something I really have a view on, but a five-star hotel in Harvey Bay, it will take a while to make money and make sense. Somebody will have to really, really have a you know, a big set of you know what's to do it. But I think what it will do, it will bring other businesses around it because it'll bring a different type of visitor. At the moment, there's no hotels in Harvey Bay that offer a bed and breakfast. You can't stay in a hotel and go downstairs and have a buffet breakfast in the hotel you're staying at. It doesn't exist. Yeah. So so uh or a hot hot buffet breakfast, I should say. So it's those sorts of things. It's what discerning travellers want. You want to get your car parked or whatever. You want a really, really nice room, you want room service, all those sorts of things. Now, um, you could have said the same thing about the Sunshine Coast 20 or 30 years ago. So it it built it and they'll come mentality. Um, it it it will change things and and it'll take a while to work. But again, uh, you know, that this isn't uh this is quite difficult, I think. And I've talked to council over the years about this. You've got a planning scheme, and whether, again, I'm not getting into the height thing, I'm just talking about zones and and areas, you know, um if if you were to create um uh my my view is Binifort Street is an example and Quen Street's another, where where one-way traffic on the Esplanade there, make it them all, um, do something. Broadbeach on the Gold Coast is a really good example. I lived there in the early 90s and it was a it wasn't a very nice part of the Gold Coast, and all now it's fantastic. Um so yes, we're developer-led, uh no offense, but but but we we we have to have vision as a community and say, let's create some zones and some areas where people want to uh uh you know relax and and enjoy themselves and dine and other things to do, whether it's market spaces or whatever it is. But I think if you if you create those sorts of things and combine that with different levels of accommodation and some all-weather attractions, it's not council or government's job to do that, but it it is their job to have the vision of saying, what could we do in this area, and then go and find people that would be happily happy to invest in it. So again, I'm not being critical of anyone. Um if you ask me what I see as the opportunities, they're the opportunities. We still have uh a sort of a botched together town, which is I mean the CBD and Pyaba development, fantastic. Um I think all those things are really good, but we should have a a a 30-year plan for what we want this place to look like, or we run the risk of it of it not looking very good at all and not working, not not connecting.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

No, we've been going through this for many years. Bureaucracy gets in the way and political ambition is you know, three-year cycles, things like that. Like I've the marina, I've been, you know, in arguments with the marina as have you had for over 20 years. You know, it's five separate state government leases over that land. You know, we were talking about an interpretive senate down there 20 odd years ago. That's right. We had Kevin Seymour was going to increase it by a third and do resorts down there. Every time you have something bold, the bureaucracy got in the way. You know, even what you're talking about now with um you know the council chambers, that's one of the boldest moves they've made, but it took over 20 years because every council just thought they would get thrown out, the councillors, if they made that decision. So it kept going on and on and on, and no one had the courage to do it. This council has had the courage, or the previous council had the courage, which is good. You know, we've talked about closing off the Esperade, making it one way near the um the Salt, you know, down there at Urangan, but then councils vote against it. Uh we've talked about making a mall and top end of Main Street where you know we we keep talking about this year in, year out, but we just don't have the boldness in our leadership as a city to make the big hard ones, even though it might be negative for a few years, the long-term effect will be massive. You look at uh Malullabar when they turned that Esplanade and made it one-way, user-friendly, stuck to car parks in the rear street.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Um, absolute change that and you had all those resorts get built all the way along there.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

And interestingly, there they left the caravan park.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

So um, you know, again, whether they should, don't know, but but they did. So so yeah, you can't and and I guess, you know, uh again, but there'll be there'll be vested interest in them, but the there's two sailing clubs on the Espinade, which are really underutilised. Um so that there's examples, maybe could that be one and make it a better one? Yeah, but then the other one gets developed into something, um, but but which the community can own. You don't have to sell these things off necessarily, but that there's all sorts of opportunities, but but you have to think about let's give some distinctiveness because uh again, Early Beach did it, and I know it's controversial to talk about in this town apparently, but but um they build a lagoon and uh they got you know they had stingers and those sort of things to contend with as well, but we've got tides to contend with. But that whole precinct is so different now. I've been going to Early Beach for a long time. You've got the restaurants that open on the street, but they also now open up to the lagoon. And and it's a safe place, it's a nice place. It's it they've just created atmosphere. I'm not not necessarily saying we need a lagoon, but I'm saying there's some vision and and there's a plan, and you've turned it a pretty crappy part of town into something really nice that that visitors appreciate. And they do, you see them there. So it's um yeah, I I think that that that's where we as a community need to come together. And and again, I'm I'm not uh I I agree the political realities are very real that the and we don't need to turn this into a into a place just for tourists. We should turn it into a really nice place. Darwin's But the locals use it.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, you know, the young family like I'll call it we need a lagoon. Um You know, I've been gone for years. So, you know, like I go to Yappoon at the moment, we're doing work up in Yapoon, and they just built the lagoon on the water. But I'm seeing the young families, it's not just the tourists, it's the people that live there have got a space to go in the world. Early beach is the same.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

It's just I go to Early Beach and six o'clock in the morning, there's people swimming laps in there and they're locals.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

So yeah, it's the same as Yapoon now.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

So I think that's if we can end up with better public spaces for the community, tourists will will like them as well. So it's and and we we need to maximize this frontage we've got. We've got the beautiful frontage. Yeah. I mean the the bike path is is really really difficult at in places. It's too narrow, it's windy, it's you know, it's dangerous. Um that the there's a whole lot of opportunity there as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

They were talking about turning that into a four-meter-wide bike path about a year or so ago, so I don't know where that's at.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Ken was talking about that before he left, and I thought the council actually agreed to do it. So um, but it's that that kind of stuff. And again, Bustleton's another place that that has done it really, really well in WA. They've got a very long pier, they've got a uh it's kind of a heritage town, but at the land side of the pier, there's a really nice looking brewery right opposite the old railway station. Yep, and it's done fantastic. So it's a it is a tourist attraction and a and a space for locals, etc.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

So it's it's the the the the vision in the um NADD observatory at the end of the beer too, but so I went over to it looking at it.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there's examples of where there's still nice small towns and good places to live, but but they've they've really embraced um the visitor economy.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

So let's get a little bit into the property side of it. Um what accommodation are we missing? You know, like you've been in tourism for 20 odd years, you know what accommodation you've had on the island, yep, but they also want a couple of nights here before they go to the island, or vice versa. Yeah, um what are we really missing here in Harvey Bay?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

A full service integrated hotel at four or five star level, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

All right, so brand, so it's either the Sheridan or I think they're talking about the Radison now at the um at the old Payoba hotel site. Yeah. What about other types of comments? You know, is have we got enough motels? Have we got enough apartments, or should we be doing different bed and breakfasts, or is there is there another mix in the market we're missing?

SPEAKER_00 24:05

I think there's certainly enough apartments, self-contained apartments, yep. Um and and enough motel rooms. Again, it's the hotel style accommodation that that's that's hard. There's not much of that. Um when I first worked at Condari in in the early 90s, the whale season we used to book out, people used to stay in childers to because in September school holidays that we didn't have enough accommodation. Ten years later we had too much. Um it's it's a really difficult thing. I understand that. And again, that comes back to earlier in the conversation is the seasonality of this town makes it very, very hard for investors and and operators to to make money, but it's sort of built it and they'll come. Look, I I I mean, selfishly, I I play golf. Um, our golf course is is full of of locals. There's a waiting list of a few years to get on there. But again, um, and I'm not a property expert, but what I see in this town is endless, endless developments of you know, really small lots with the houses all look the same. Um, you know, the opportunity for something may be a little bit out of town, but again, it would be an attraction of a of a fully integrated Twin Waters type development um with a golf course and and a planned community. Um would again, it would bring people the climate, we've got the perfect climate, we've got access is being fixed. Um the road, as you mentioned, you can drive from Brisbane to here in three hours, flat, etc. So that's going to get shorter and shorter. So I would think those, and that becomes a tourist attraction as well as a locals place. But I I think overall we're good. We've got plenty of caravan parks, um maybe too many in some ways, but anyway, I won't get into that. But um there's but there, yeah, I I I I think it's that it's that higher end accommodation. And the the thing you find, Glenn, is places like Hamilton Island, that they're recession proof. Qualia at Hamilton Island, their occupancy is 95%, and that's only because they take the rooms out and refurbish them every every year. They could be a hundred, and they just run an average room rate of a couple of grand a night. So people with money have money that that they do. They don't they don't suffer from the recessions like we do. I I think there's a place um on Gary for a five-star property, uh, a really high-end boutique property, um, and again, a lodge type um uh uh experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

But they want to fly in, they all want to do something at a time.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

And some people won't uh stay in Harvey Bay. And I've seen people over the years that they would stay at Kingfisher, it's just met their needs, but they there's some nice houses and things there, but they wouldn't stay in Harvey Bay because there's nothing actually of the right standards. There's a couple of places that might be, but but they usually wouldn't do a one-night stay.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Yep. So talk about uh Fraser Island and Gary. How much did that name change cost in tourism dollars, really? Because you know, we had a worldwide name, Fraser Island. You spent people like um Kingfisher and everybody else spent decades building a brand, and we even changed our area to the Fraser Coast based on that.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

It's a switch overnight.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

You couldn't measure it. You could keep adding zeros. Um the the the the the the philosophical um decision to change the name, I don't object to. Um it's it's like air's rock and Uluru. I've got no problem with it at all. Interestingly, the traditional owners own Air's Rock Resort, and they still call it Air's Rock Resort because it's got a brand. Now the rock is called Uluru. So so what we did lobby the government at the time, and I was on the tourism board at the time, for a plan. We got some funding to do a straight to develop a strategy to to roll out the name change over uh over a length of time and and um anyway, it it didn't get supported and it didn't get funded. So it was a it was a decision that was made for you know, rightly or wrongly, but but like any brand change, you need to consider that really carefully. So it damaged this region, not just the businesses on on the island, but the region. Um you you could not measure the damage that it did.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

It'd be tens of millions, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Still doing, you know, I I always used to say to people, you know, you could walk down the main street of Dusseldorf and ask people if they'd heard of Brisbane or they'd heard of Fraser Island, and I guarantee they'd heard of Fraser Island in that, like the German market, for example. Yeah, huge brand. Um so Kingfisher Bay, very well known, Fraser Island, very well known. So um and it was they were sort of synonymous with it. Um so you you you you to change a name like that is is um it's it's a it was a really poor move the way it was executed. The and and even the government at the time, the government of the day didn't even support it being called Gary Fraser Island. They just said no, it's Gari, it's no Fraser Island reference. Um but on the flip side, it's happened, it's there. The opportunity that exists now is is to develop that heritage and cultural tourism, and and I think that is absolutely a uh a massive opportunity for us as a region. Um I didn't bring it up earlier in terms of new product because it's it's it's a diversification or in addition to an existing existing uh product, but you'll get a different type of visitor or or a longer length of stay or pay more money for an authentic um uh traditional owner-led experience. And and I think there are some some there's some work being done by various organizations on that. I'd encourage them to keep going because it's it's something that we um we really you know it's it's a massive market worldwide. And you mentioned the young demographic. So you know my kids are in their 20s and they're very aware, very culturally aware and environmentally uh aware and and and want to make sure that what they're you know that their visitation um to places is is done in a in in a sustainable way and a respectful way.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

And you know, we travel a lot overseas and you know, I go to a lot of places full of history. Yeah, you know, from from you know Petra to Rome to you know the pyramids and you know, like the pyramids, that that massive museum they've just done there, you know, it it's a major attraction. People want to understand history.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

And I'll come back to that to that opportunity for a World Heritage Interpretive Centre, which would certainly have a traditional owner, you know, presence and and and theme to it. Um that's a that's it's a huge, huge opportunity that we're missing at the moment. So you could tick a whole lot of boxes by doing that here, but also the development of product on the island.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

I've still got the plan, sort of one from about 20 years ago that I've got to put it at the caravan park at the marina.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Uh when Ted was in, yeah. So still waiting.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Well, that and and that's another bit of land that's just sort of sort of going round in circles.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, it is because they haven't changed at least the freehold. It's just another crazy thing. Yeah, um, we might wrap it up in a second, but tourism board's priorities. Um, I see council's got uh marketing out now for a new advisory board over over certain things. Um, you've got a new tourism board lead. What should we be focusing on over the next decade in in our tourism product here?

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yeah, um I I think all all weather and higher end, and so I think the tourism board's role is to promote whatever's here, but but I think from an economic development point of view, yeah, yeah, we we should be focusing on how do we attract a different type of visitor so we've got a more diverse visitor range, and that comes back to what I was mentioning about the standard of accommodation, but also things to do. Um and and how do we how do we encourage that not just council or local or state government, but as a as a community, how do we, I guess, incubate, you know, that that and and encourage it, whether it's walking tours, whatever it is, it's it's think things that are that they don't have to be big and expensive. Obviously, some bold things like like um you and I agree on things like a lagoon would be great. But beyond that, um, or be before that, um, just using what we've got uh and and really marketing it well, but we've got we've got to we've got to get people that are willing to jump off the cliff and and start a business and start an operation in this town or in this region, uh, and it'll be sustainable. I was talking to just as an aside, I was talking to Phil from the boat club the other day, or on the way of the island for the long lunch, and we're talking about going up the Mary River. And what that is a fantastic experience. So, but again, there's some logistics in that, and it's hard to get the momentum going. Um but we've got a whole, and I know you mentioned about marine, you know, it it's narrow and weather dependent in some ways, but one of the unique opportunities we have here is we have this whale watch, this fleet of whale watching boats all year that only whale watch three or four months a year. So utilize them, develop, diversify the product, and you can't tell people how to run their businesses, but but what we can do is make sure there's no government red tape in the way and and we can get out of the way. And I think Chris of Fully government's doing a lot of that, but is is you know, if there's ideas out there, make sure we just fast track it and and let's let's see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

But you know, even with that, like it is red tape because again, the whale watching boats, and I I've hired Phil's boat for private functions and things like that. And the boat's not allowed to pull up on on Ghari. It can park and people can swim in, but it can't even pull up. It's ridiculous. But 400,000 tourists can go drive on there and park there, but a single tourism boat can't even put 30 people on the beach.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

It's probably a whole nother podcast about about the management of that of that. And how it's how it's not managed and and how it could be managed. Um that yeah, that that wouldn't wouldn't have long enough. But but but I think I think that that is something that absolutely needs to be, I know it's not a new product, but but the way the island is managed as a it's a major tourism destination, it's run as a national park, and it's it's ridiculous. So that if you look around the world, there's ways that that's done really well, and it's certainly not done really well here, and again, a massive opportunity for us without wrecking it um and without exploiting anything, but but just to to make it better and and make it work, and that what you've just highlighted there is a classic example of uh an asset that's sitting there that we just can't use.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yeah, um back on land, um we still lack food, um, good good food outlets, good five-star restaurants, um, different experiences like your breweries, things like that. You know, and and it's very hard for a small business because we've got a lot of aging population, they don't spend the money, we've got a lower income base and things like that. How do we transform this into a more of a five-star dining experience, land based in Harvey Bay?

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah, supply and demand. Yeah. If you've got somewhere that's nice to stay, people with that money and demanding of that, of those other things that come. That's what I was getting at. Like a five-star hotel won't just won't just be limited to that. It'll be the outward spend on tours, on attractions, on on food, dining, etc. So at the moment, supply and demand, I understand. If I'm running a restaurant and I've got five staff working and everyone's gone by nine o'clock, I'm gonna knock them off and close the doors. Yeah, I'm not gonna stay up until 10.30 for one table. I get that. I'm usually the table, but but I understand how that works, but um, but but there needs to be more people that want to stay. Um and and that this is very hard. It's chicken and egg. Uh I I see it, but it it's it's difficult. But I think whatever we can do as a community to encourage the development of, and again, I'm not getting into heights and all that. That's not my space. I'm talking about the standard of accommodation. Yeah, um, we we need that to happen because that that will be a catalyst for a whole lot more change. And then you know, you could also argue that those people won't necessarily get on a just star flight. They will, if if they need to, um, that they will do it. But air access, we're we're I'm absolutely so happy with the council for that move. I think it's great. It's what made places like Hamilton Island and Airs Rock, they only work because they have Airs Rock Resort, I should say, uh Uluru, but only work because they have air access. And the more air access we have and the the more open and friendly we are to airlines. I mean, it'd be great to get Virgin back in. Hopefully the timing will be right for that in the near future. Again, that's not my space, but but I think yeah, we need absolutely the more access. I mean, you know, contr maybe it's controversial, but are we going to bypass Maribor um after Tyro? I mean, why do I have to drive through the the the the middle of Maribor to get to Hubby Bay? I'm not negative about Merriborough, I love Meribor, but but but you know it's it's it it well we've been working on that too as an industry.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

And it and it's not about Meriborh, it's about um it's about efficiency getting the people to the destination. So there is talks about loop road going around there. We've been trying to encourage it. We've actually drawn up a few loop roads, but the other thing is, you know, just on a practical sense for Meriborh, all your trucks have to go through the middle of Meriborh on a council road, so council's paying for the repairs where you've really got state controlled trucks coming up and wanting to deliver. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I've got to go through uh so council's you know council gets negative out of that wear and tear because of the state government having provided the roads.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

It's interesting. I've heard some feedback from the mayor of Gympie via a third party, but but the story, the question was, what's happened to Gimpy since they bypassed it? You know, has it has it died? Is it is it really bad? And the answer was no. The community are really enjoying it. There's not all these trucks going through the middle of town. Yeah, um, they feel like they've got the town back, and they're still there's still visitors, but but they're they're really um they're really enjoying it, and it's actually changed Gympie positively. So I'm sure, I'm sure you know, McDonald's and a few others aren't as happy about it as he is, but uh, but but there's certainly been some positive sides. And and again, I I think Maribor's absolutely got got so much potential for us from a tourism perspective, and I'd love to see us do more with that as a community. We don't need a convention center in Harvey Bay, we've got one in Maribor, it's a 30-minute bus ride, it's fine. Fix that road up, that'll be good. But but yeah, there's there's there's so many things we could do with Mariborough, but again, a loop road would be a great thing because if you chop another 10 minutes off and then Tyros 10 minutes, suddenly you're talking to two hours 30, 2 hours 40 from Brisbane. That's that's a weekend. That's absolutely a weekend. And the Sunshine Coast is chockablock, it's busy, it's hard to drive around. Um, you know, try getting into Noosa and getting a car park. That's not us. So that's a whole nother market. And and I mean, eventually too, if demand's there, we we you should be able to get on a plane on Friday afternoon out of Brisbane and go home on Sunday afternoon and have a weekend up here as a you know, uh as an alternative as well. So there's all those things that that that we we as locals and residents would benefit from more air access, but the uh the tourists will make it make it pay higher yielding business.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yep. All right, we might wrap it up there. Thank you for your insights, David. It's uh great to listen. You know, 30 years plus in the industry. Um, a lot of ideas. We're gonna have another podcast about the red tape. Yes, yes, different anytime. Um all right, thank you very much. Don't forget to check us out on Facebook or YouTube or one of your favourite podcasts. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Thanks, man.