Fraser Coast Property Brief
Fraser Coast Property Brief is a weekly podcast exploring property, development, investment and business across the Fraser Coast. Hosted by local industry professionals, the show features conversations with developers, agents, investors and decision-makers shaping the regionโs future, with insights into market trends, projects and opportunities.
Fraser Coast Property Brief
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๐๐ฒ๐๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ฝ๐บ๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ถ๐๐ปโ๐ ๐ท๐๐๐ ๐ฎ๐ฏ๐ผ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐๐ถ๐น๐ฑ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐บ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฒ, ๐ถ๐โ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฏ๐ผ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐๐ถ๐น๐ฑ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ด๐ต๐ ๐๐ต๐ถ๐ป๐ด๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฐ๐ผ๐บ๐บ๐๐ป๐ถ๐๐.
What does good development look like for a growing region?
In this episode of The Fraser Coast Property Brief, Glen chats with Luke Jansen, founder of CicloPR, about the bigger picture behind development and how Hervey Bay can grow while still protecting what makes the region special.
Luke shares insights from his experience across property, infrastructure, major projects and government, including why early conversations between developers, council and the community are so important.
Together, they explore what it takes to create places that people are proud to live in, from housing diversity and the missing middle to student accommodation, future jobs, infrastructure and the opportunities around the TAFE and health precincts.
Itโs a conversation about looking beyond plans and buildings, understanding what the community needs and making sure the Fraser Coastโs next chapter is shaped with purpose.
๐๐ฟ๐ผ๐๐๐ต ๐ถ๐ ๐ฐ๐ผ๐บ๐ถ๐ป๐ด. ๐ง๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฏ๐ถ๐ด ๐พ๐๐ฒ๐๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป ๐ถ๐: ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐๐ถ๐น๐น ๐๐ฒ ๐ฏ๐๐ถ๐น๐ฑ?
#TheFraserCoastPropertyBrief #FraserCoast #HerveyBay #CicloPR #PropertyPodcast #PropertyDevelopment #Housing #Infrastructure #CommunityGrowth
Welcome to the Fraser Coast Property Brief, the podcast where property, development, and business leaders share what's really happening across the Fraser Coast. Each episode brings you insights into local projects, market trends, and the people helping shape the future of our region. Welcome to another episode of Fraser Coast Property Brief. Today I'm joined by Luke Jansen, founder of Cyclo PR. Luke brings a long career across property, major projects, infrastructure, strategic decision making, stakeholder environment. And we want to talk about the Fraser Coast and how we can accommodate the growth and protecting the character and livability of so welcome, Luke. Thanks, Glenn. Nice to be here. Appreciate the invite. Yep. So we might just start. Give us a little bit of background about your experience. You know, you've come from Canberra. Yes. So give us a little bit of a history on you for a minute.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. I started in the lands branch of uh the Department of Territories in 1984. So a long, long time ago, those were the days when uh Canberra was still growing as a city. Yeah. Uh it was the planned city, so there were subdivisions that had to be um uh put out there for people to to live in. Uh so a lot of broad accura land development. I was also involved in national association leasing um, you know, for um big buildings in the parliamentary triangle. And I had a fairly good grounded apprenticeship there for 12 years, and then I moved into I had a bit of a break and I wasn't I started a pub of all things because everybody wants to have a pub. As you do, yeah, exactly. And uh then I went back in uh to the public sector and I really wanted to do jobs that uh I enjoyed and and actually achieved something. I didn't want to be paper shuffling, I wanted to see uh things built. Yep. And that's really been my passion is to see city shaping go in the right way, to build things, to recreate things such as you know, surplus properties and what we do with them. And I've also been on the development side as well, dn um, you know, creating uh detailed business cases um which really go into what cyclo PR is all about, Glenn, which is really understanding the stakeholder environment, understanding why we're doing what we're doing, and making sure you know there's social license there um for the the massive investment in some of these big projects.
SPEAKER_01Alright. Explain what cyclo PR is. What's the name mean and what's behind that this business?
SPEAKER_00So cyclo PR uh sprung from my observations over the last you know seven or eight months being here in Harvey Bay. There's obviously a lot of change coming um to Harvey Bay with the planning scheme changes. And cyclo is the Italian word for cycle, which is you know part of the cycle of development, growth of a city and various other things. Comprise cycles, yep. Exactly. And uh so it seemed uh natural to, you know, to put something in place that uh allowed me to use my experience in city shaping and you know, on government and development side and create that conversations with the community and you know, uh be the bridge between developers, the council, and the community to really unpack some of the development, what's happening, understand the infrastructure requirements, and uh how how we're going to shape the future of Fraser Case and particularly Harvey Bay and and create the type of environment and place that we all want to live in.
SPEAKER_01Well, let's jump into a little bit of what you do in Cyclow. So you talk about uh projects are not just a set of drawings or a development application. What else is it in you know what makes a good project?
SPEAKER_00I think a good project is one that meets the needs of both the developer and the community. Yep. Um Harvey Bay, for instance, is really growing. Uh it has a um a number of uh infrastructure challenges and uh some of those you've covered in your previous podcast. I'm sure everyone's been glued to them. Yep. Uh you know, the missing middle, the um the growth for jobs and young people and places. But for Cyclo PR, it's really about coming in early in the piece and having conversations with developers and the council to ensure that you know the developments are meeting the planning requirements, are also you know meeting the community's needs and and having those conversations early makes it much easier to get it steered in the right direction before you go down a big d design path. And as you know, redesign and various other elements of rework are very expensive and you're having to pivot and then you feel like you're constantly under attack. So Cyclo PR sort of acts as that bridge in between and asks the questions that are needed to be asked up front and and you know establishes clarity with the developers and the council and and the community around what's to be built and how that's going to enhance the Harvey Bay region.
SPEAKER_01So you want to get in with the developers very beginning of the design or the concept and talk about the the end result as well, not just about the profitability of the development.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. All of those things are commercially um important, you know, and I've been on all sides of that sort of equation. I've looked at feasibility studies and had to do detailed financial and financial modelling myself. Yeah. But um I I think that there's a real need to have those conversations. And the best projects I've been involved with had that social license. Yep. And uh, you know, social license license is really the level of understanding, uh trust uh that the community have within the um, you know, the development space um about the projects that are going ahead.
SPEAKER_01So explain a little bit more about social license because people don't really understand it. So give us a bit of a plain English, what you think the social license is as far as a developer concern, and probably as far as the community is concerned. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00From a developer, I think establishing social license is really about uh are we getting this development right? Does it meet the community needs? And for the community, it's really the level of understanding, trust, um, and uh acceptance that the project has uh within the community. And that often comes from having, you know, good conversations, understanding and um uh what their points of view are and and creating a bridge between those uh points of view. Because sometimes I wouldn't say people are misinformed, I don't think that's at all, but some people don't understand development, they don't understand the drivers, they don't understand the alignment of policy. Yeah. You know, the local government infrastructure plan, the Fraser case planning scheme changes, they don't understand what it means, but what they want to do is say, hey, we just want to keep everything the same, stop developing. That's you know, development is going to happen. It's about creating the environment and the social license that the developments that come through meet the needs, and the community accepts uh viable and practical.
SPEAKER_01So NIMBYism is always alive and well, shut the gate behind you. Once they're in, we've got the perfect environment. Um, one of the things I've been going on about for a lot long time, people with especially with the social license, um, people just look at the development for here and now, but we've got to change direction as a city. We've got to get younger and we've got to become more inclusive to get a future workforce. So you know, how much is this social license about trying to create a different way forward for the future?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think Glenn's about balancing all the needs of the community. You know, the the people who live here are just as important as uh people who are going to live here in the future. But it's it's understanding the journey and the transition of Harvey Bay from a sleepy coastal town to a more vibrant sort of um city. Yeah. Um and and, you know, I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. I think that we can have good development and we can have the conversation and discourse with the community to really understand, you know, what they're looking to um see Harvey Bay become. Yeah. Um the NIMBYism exactly is is one of those things where people I think just m go to slogans and we don't want it here and that type of thing. Whereas I I Cyclo PR can come in and have those conversations, really understand what the motivations are behind it. Maybe if they don't like apartments, maybe they had their own personal experience, I'm not sure. Um, but you know, creating those missing middle uh higher density houses is going to be important. We need to encourage young people to come into our um community and have that vibrancy. And, you know, some will naturally float out and go off and have their life's adventures. That's another university or the yeah, yep. But I hope that they see a future in Harvey Bay. And, you know, you see the the TAFE precinct and the health precinct. I think that's a uh superb opportunity to create uh opportunities for people to live here, but also for people to go off, have their careers and and choose Harvey Bay to come back to and and you know, and give the experience back to the community and and investment.
SPEAKER_01I see the state government selling about eight uh hectares of land just behind the TAFE, so hopefully they do the right thing and actually make it in accommodation that actually helps students and the medical precinct.
SPEAKER_00So just getting back to the just before you move forward. I think that's the essentially the essence of it. You know, people say that there's an eight hectare site and they want 173 dwellings, etc. But what does that actually look like? How is it going to service the needs? How is the community gonna be uh kept informed of of what's looking to be developed there? Yeah. How does it fit within the needs? And and you know, we hope that with an informed discussion that they become advocates for good development in in Harvey Bay.
SPEAKER_01We don't need another over fifty-five village on that site, and we don't need another normal residential land subdivision site. We've got plenty of them. We need something special right in that location. So just getting back to that conversation about growth. So we've got about probably two and a half thousand people a year moving into the region. So we're probably gonna grow by another 40 odd thousand next 20 years or more, could be 50. Um What is the central conversation we should be having now about the growth of this city? You know, what w where do we need to stop and say, hey, these are the things we should be considering?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a really good question. Uh I think a lot of people are asking those questions now, and I think it's a very um critical juncture in Harvey Bay's future because we've got um, you know, the planning scheme changes, yeah. And we've got the new infrastructure um investment to create the opportunity for more people to be able to be housed. And I think housing is really important, you know, as a growing country, we do have a housing shortage, so we we we've got to be able to accept that, that that's a fact. And we want to create a community in Harvey Bay that's vibrant. So um I guess it it's about navigating all of those changes, understanding how the policies align, and really, you know, creating a a discussion that that makes it acceptable for development in this town and um and and good development, you know. Let the community have their say early. Allow the developers to, you know, adjust as necessary when it's easier to adjust early rather than expensive to adjust late. Yep. And and really target those areas for greater density and uh but very livable too. I think there's often a uh discussion that needs to be had with council because having extensive experience in this area on the government side, a lot of people uh struggle with the complexity of multi-layered uh legislation and and planning schemes. They go, I don't understand how this all means, so well what they do is they tend to go, well, I just don't want it, or I want it to be this way. You know, when you understand what's meant to be achieved with that policy alignment, I think the communities are more likely to get on board. And and those missing parts of the equation in the property um sector in Harvey Bay are likely to be filled with high quality developments, and that's really what you're looking to do. Yep.
SPEAKER_01So diversity, we've we've got probably one of the most plainest boring housing product in Queensland. We've got we've got twelve type for redevelopment for the central medium density, yeah, and the rest is low density. The state average I think is about twenty-six percent medium density. Yeah. What does housing diversity look like to you and what infrastructure characters that we need to change to actually get a better livable city?
SPEAKER_00Well, my experience certainly is seeing Canberra change over many decades, uh, from you know, brick veneer houses and you know, three-betty um with a garage out in the burbs to, you know, some of that uh modern urban infill. It's really about getting good architectural design, um, very livable spaces, but that that don't overcrowd things. It's not always as a developer about getting the the the biggest um DA. And I think a lot of people make that mistake. They say, let's get the highest value one we can. Yeah. And then they do all this work and they spend all this money on DA and architects, and then they find it's just not suitable for the environment. Yeah. It's overcrowded, um, and then there's no market for it. So, you know, I s I see duplexes, you know, um, that are have have high quality, uh, with good amenity and close to, you know, shops and services to to create that extra demand for those businesses who invested in Harvey Bay. And um, you know, I guess really good architectural design. One of my favourite shows is um, you know, uh Grand Designs. Yeah, and I like that show. I really do. And I think uh a little bit of thinking about you know design early in the piece can can create a really good environment, and that's sort of what Cyclo PR is all about. Yep.
SPEAKER_01So infrastructure from the infrastructure lens, um, you know, what's the conversation we should be having? You know, like there there's a lot of conversation about, you know, we keep expanding out, it costs more money as a city to go beyond the current limits. Yeah. So, you know, should we be focusing at infrastructure within, you know, what we've got now? Because, you know, like things like the Esplanade, we've got sewerage and water and everything underground that can take about a hundred people per hectare. It does. It's got a good capacity, yeah. Yeah. But we've got about ten people per hectare living down there. So what do we need to look at with the infrastructure from the infrastructure lens? Should we be looking back in or should we be looking out?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think both things can be true at the same time. I think there's certainly um people who want to live on a, you know, five, six hundred meter block with a shed, and then we've got to cater for those. Yeah. But equally there are people who are downsizing and moving from the you know, the uh Southeast Queensland up a little bit for affordability, those that want a lifestyle uh closer to the uh Esminard. So there's there's definitely a lot of housing choices that people can make. I think you've got to do both at the same time. The investment by the state government in you know infrastructure has really unlocked a lot of that services uh c capability for the future. Yeah. But I think we've got uh uh an opportunity in Harvey Bay to do both, as opposed to some cities that go urban sprawl right to the end and then they go, Oh, we've we've run out of room, let's let's go dance in the middle. So I think we've done a bit. Yeah, we have. But I think there's a real opportunity now to have that discussion and say, okay, what does good development look like? There are people who, you know, who who might look at those um you know taller buildings on the Esplanade and go, well, it's changing the character, but I think there's also there's a des desperate need for uh tourism accommodation in the city. Um and I think that's uh underserviced at the moment. So you know, you need those ones to to bring people in, and you know, the investment in the $18 million into the airport is to bring more people in tourism, yes, more economics, bring helps businesses. Um but we also need to, you know, look at those housing products for people who are uh you know moving out of the four-bedroom, two garage.
SPEAKER_01Everybody thinks it's a good idea until it's right next to them. There's a been a recent uh DA that somebody tried to put a triplex in an area which was low density. Councillors got pressure from the local community, so they knocked it back. You know, but their scheme says we want um more you know medium density in these areas and we want what they call gentle density, but they get the backlash um straight away, so they fold. So how do we get past that? And actually, so this is not a bad thing, or this is something we need to survive as a city. This is exactly why cyclopedia's big created. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, what PR advice are you gonna give them? Well, it it's about you know having uh uh authentic conversations. Yes. You know, uh if a developer comes in and says, uh, this is what I'm gonna do, I'm just gonna plonk it in here. Yeah. And they haven't talked to the neighbours, they haven't, you know, given them the some information about what they're planning to do, um, then it becomes as a bit of a surprise. So the only mechanism that they have is when the development application comes in, they throw in a heap, they, you know, circle the wagons, they get the community to get together and they go, we don't want this here, this is terrible, you know, all of that emotive language. Uh where I think there was an opportunity previously to have a bit of a discussion about that, which paves the way for the council to actually implement the planning scheme that they've put in place.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And and And they need to be selling it more too. They need to be going rather than just running from the problem, they need to be actually talking to their constituents out there and saying, this is a good idea. We need to do it for long term.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's where you know Cyclo PR can can bridge that gap, and that's the gap that I've seen. You know, councils can't be out there sprooking on behalf of development. What they do is they're a regulatory body and they have the planning scheme. They understand what what's needed, which is why they've put this in place. Yeah. Um but you know, they can't be going spruking because then they say they're pro-development, etc. Whereas, you know, uh Cyclo PR can come in, talk to the community, establish that sort of social license and be able to go back to the council with a risk managed approach that says, yes, look, there they they might you know have some objections about here, um, but in on balance it still meets the planning schemes. Both those things can be true. But if you really engage in authentic uh discussion, there might be some concessions that the design can make, which makes it more livable and easier. And uh I think that gives you a better result and and smooth as a pathway for the sort of uh type of work that needs to happen in Harvey Bay. Alright.
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about that dirty word, development. Um it's one of the it's one of those words that um fear people got fear, hatred, whatever else. But in reality, if there was no development, it would be no city. We would be all living in tents out in the bush, you know, like your shopping your shopping centre was done by a developer, your your service station, the streets in your neighborhood are done, your actual subdivision where your house sits on was done by a developer. If there was no development, then there would be no city. So what sits behind the community fear and concern about the actual word or the actual intent of development?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think firstly, people don't understand that developers are trying to meet a need within the community. Developers are really wanting to put products out there that are going to um sell, that are going to add to the community. You know, you're you're a uh deeply involved in the community. Most of the developers uh that I've met over time really want the same urban outcomes. Yeah. Uh and they also want to be able to create a vibrant community that they essentially live in. Yep. But they understand the practical and commercial realities of doing business. They they know that the development needs to happen, so they put their hands up, they put their money on the line, and they go in and do the best that they can. I think there's a um uh a more nuanced way of doing it and moving forward, which you know brings those uh two uh elements together, development and community, create to create a viewpoint moving forward of you know what Harvey Bay needs to look like. It can't be just led by the developers, it can't be led just by the council, uh, and it can't be you know anti-development from the uh community. There's a balance there where everyone can understand what the drivers are. And the more understanding we have around these things, the more acceptance that we can get about the um, you know, and more influence people can have too. You know, sitting on the fence and throwing rocks uh doesn't help. Getting into a conversation and and sitting down and and authentically, you know, sitting down with um ourselves and developers is a really good way of you know achieving a better result.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Facebook seems Facebook seems to be the major uh rock launcher these days. Um my you know, it's been a bugbear for me for years around here is we don't actually understand what we want to be when we grow up as a city. So we can't get a shared vision, we can't say in 20 years' time, what do we want the phrase goes in Harvey Bay to look like and what's the mixture of uh people we want in here? Because we're heading for that cliff, we're heading for you know, we're average age of 51, state average is 38. Our highest growth since COVID has been over 65 year olds.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So uh we're not getting the 25 to 40 year olds coming in that's actually going to be in the medical space to look after those people. Yeah. So this cliff is coming unless we change what we want to look like in 20 years' time. So what you know, you you often say um you know, uh conversations are the cheapest way to, you know, at the time. Yeah. So you know, what does it look like in practice? How do we start uh changing direction or actually getting in alignment of what our direction should be as a region? You know, it seems to be a gap in in our business.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I agree. And I'm not sure whether it's a definite uh definitely a policy gap. I think it's a communication gap and it's an expectation gap. The work that you have done in your podcast and the Property Industry Association has done is is terrific because it's uh it's outward facing. People can um you know get on and understand what some of the drivers are. So that educational aspect I think is critical for the general community. There aren't obviously um developments that cater for over 65s and 55s. They're going to want to get people to move in there, and I think that's legitimate. That's okay. I don't think we need much more of them, but you know, they are a legitimate housing choice for people. Uh what we need. Is more development that's going to have some certainty around acceptance in that middle region that creates those duplexes and triplexes with a high degree of uh architectural merit and uh and livability to leverage off those existing services. So, you know, the planning scheme, once they've done their uh, you know, looked at the submissions, etc., etc., we hope that it'll it will look something like they've um shown and that the the council and the government will actually um stick to the task at hand, which is creating that environment for better urban uh renewal. Yep. And and and the community needs to come on board too. And I think from my point of view, that's having those discussions on social media, uh creating community sort of feedback uh that doesn't become a witch hunt, you know, where uh it looks like the Blues brothers. Um but you know, uh really engages authentically and and acknowledges some of those concerns. Because I think if you acknowledge those concerns and then you can look at how you can uh mitigate those from a risk point of view, you get people maybe that they're not, you know, the um the advocates for development, but they understand it's need and that what they want to do is get the right outcome. So I think there's some visionary things that you know, some some pilot projects or some good urban design projects that should be held up as examples for you know what can be a really good uh infill opportunity. And I think we need to celebrate more of those and encourage developers to be able to have that higher quality, which will get uh quicker acceptance in the market, quicker sales, better commercially, and then the Harvey Bay region really becomes a place where people want to go because the urban infill isn't you know architecturally designed, it's not the cheapest one that gets up, but it's uh you know, it meets the needs of the community and those people who want to invest into it.
SPEAKER_01All right, we might wrap it up in a minute, but I'll give you one final question. What does a successful Fraser Coast look like in, say, 10 or 20 years' time? What do we need to change and what do you see the environment looking like as a region to be successful? You've come from a very planned city in campus. Yep. Um, you know, and it's quite successful the way it works. Yes. Um so what does success look like as a region?
SPEAKER_00I think it's uh keeping the things that are uniquely beautiful about the Fraser case in Harvey Bay. The Esplanade and the investment that's already been put in there is wonderful. Uh it allows the community access right along that foreshore. That's that's a given that can't change. Yeah. Um what we need to do is understand that as development goes, we need to, you know, we'll have some high rises, but there needs to be a mixture. Uh can't it be all high rise? And I think some of the developments we're seeing, the lower rise developments, are are almost a hedge against that. So you're getting that sort of housing diversity type along the foreshore, which I think is great. Moving back to Torque Road and those other areas, I think, you know, what we want to see is um, you know, not not three-story walk-ups, but more, you know, duplexes and and uh you know, some three-story walk-ups. The gentle density. The gentle density. Yeah. But then also a a smaller cohort of that that um student accommodation, for instance, um, places where young people can rent that, you know, I I I I'm really into modular, I I really understand that industry. Um, but you know, some of the products that are coming out there are really spectacularly good. Yeah. They are really, really designed because they realize that you can't get the people to move into them if they're just a dog box. So it's evolved a lot. So I think we're in a really good place in the Fraser case to be able to leverage the best of modular, leverage the best of architectural design, and really create that missing middle uh that people are going to be proud of for the future.
SPEAKER_01All right. That's some good advice. So Luke, thank you very much for um, you know, your information and your insights from you know all your experience, and let's look forward to how Fraser Case evolves over the next decade or two. Thank you forward to being part of it. Thanks.
