Gods in the Sky: From Religion to Astrotheology

What happens when the beliefs you were raised with stop making sense?

In this episode of Cruz Control, Aaron Cruz explores his journey through organized religion, questioning long-held ideas and searching for meaning beyond traditional frameworks. From early faith to personal deconstruction, the conversation moves into deeper territory via Vision Quest. Examining belief, doubt, and the role of astrotheology in understanding ancient systems of thought.

This is a conversation about faith without dogma and curiosity without certainty.

Of note, we will continue this conversation in future episodes. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Cruise Control, navigating the chaos. One conversation at a time. This is an ongoing conversation with Aaron Cruz, a competitive bodybuilder, mixed martial artist, ironworker, business owner, researcher, philosopher, spiritual explorer, and much more. Each episode explores where physical discipline meets inner work, where strength, believe, ancestry, and purpose intersect. No scripts, no personas, just an honest conversation about the many layers that shape how to move through the world. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Hello there and welcome. Welcome back to Cruise Control, Navigating the Chaos, One Conversation at a Time. I'm your co-host, Errington Williams, and today I am joined by none other than Aaron Cruz. Aaron, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Wonderful. How's it going, everybody?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Well, we are back. And before we move on to today's topic, we're going to talk a little bit about the last episode. Well received.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Absolutely. The feedback's been a little overwhelming, not too bad, but I mean it's been amazing. There's there's people coming up asking about nutrition and how to further broaden their minds and experiences with nutrition in their own lives, and you know, asking me for recipes and whatnot. And it was never really about that, but it it it got people thinking about what they're putting into their bodies for sure. And it's been an amazing response. And just the fact that these light bulbs are going on in people's minds and they're a little bit more considerate and aware of what they're they're attempting to eat and put into their body and fuel themselves with is amazing to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Absolutely. Couple of takeaways. I think the big one that everyone's, you know, what I've heard yelled at us across the gym floor is science projects.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

I guess I guess that term got it it got put out there. It landed, and it really did. And I'll tell you, I was uh went into the Starbucks inside of the Ralph's and to get my morning coffee at Smoke Smoke Tree. Yeah, Smoke Tree. And I looked over and there was a case of pre-packaged like lasagnas and meatballs and quesadillas, and it just looked it's hideous, like the devil's dick. I'm telling you. It was the biggest science project. I mean, it was like the kid in the c class who just, you know, maybe didn't get the science project right. I mean, it would look nasty.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Yeah, it's not appealing at all to me anymore. You know?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

And I know some people were asking about recipes, and I think in a weird way, that's the whole point of the episode is it's not about necessarily one recipe. But if you want to pivot, I think the thing I took away from it was the farmers' markets. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

And just remember, on top of that, you go to the farmer's market, you're already making a conscious effort and putting cleaner ingredients into your body and into your kitchen, into your refrigerator. But those four elements, the protein, the carbs, the fiber, and the fats, that's all you need to manipulate and and figure out for yourself. There's there's a code there. There's a there's a formula in there for everybody. And those are the only things that you really kind of should spend energy in trying to figure out for yourself. Somewhere in there, there's there's a recipe for you that's gonna make you feel, perform, and look exactly how you want to.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Absolutely. I I think the farmer's market's such a great thing, something that I need to implement in my life. And, you know, it's a it's a really, you know, food aside, it's a wonderful way to spend a Saturday or Sunday morning. Go with your loved one, you know, go with your significant other. Hell, if you're single, I would definitely go.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Why not?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

It's a great place to sort of interact with your community. You're putting hands in the right, excuse me, you're putting money in the right hands, and you know, the food that you're putting in your mouth is the right food. I mean, it's not so much about a recipe, but get fresh eggs and hard boil those eggs, slice up half an avocado, and you got a great breakfast.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Wonderful. That's a great way to start the day for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

So we're gonna be revisiting each season. There will always be a nutrition episode of some sort. Looking forward to that for season two, but want to thank everyone for all of the kind words and the continued support. At your request, we're moving some things around, moving some of these episodes around. And I think just based on spending an hour with you every morning, five days a week, we're gonna talk about religion today. You really seem to be ready to talk about this part of your journey.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

It's a it's a big conversation. And anybody that knows me, friends, family, loved ones, people I've met, a lot of the questions that they ask about my experiences kind of started with that at a young age. So it's it's a wonderful topic, and I'm very passionate about it. And it's a it's a big contributing element and rabbit hole that I dove into early on in life to to try to figure out my place in the world and the world that I I'm a part of for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

I feel like, oh, and we got to mention, you know, I ran into your mother uh in passing at the gym, and she's so excited. I feel like she's getting the opportunity to perhaps learn about her son in ways that in an unconventional way. I mean, most sons don't have podcasts.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

No, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

For you, her the close the people close to you are learning about you, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Yeah, definitely. They're they're learning deeper sides of of me, of why and how and who I am and what I've been through and what I've experienced in the man that I've become. So for my mother, she's learning about her son all over again, maybe in a definitely in a more just manner. I get to have honest conversations with all of you guys and my close ones and my loved ones and my family, they they get to benefit from it as well. My kids, my grandkids, and I was I was talking to my mom and my daughter the other day. And you know, even from my grandkids, you know, at some point they're gonna be able to go online when they're older and they're gonna hear their grandfather's voice, which none of us get to do. They're gonna hear their grandfather's voice talk about his stories and his experiences and his words. And to me, that's pretty damn cool. It's it's it's it's very, very important that they're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Absolutely. I think it's you know, these podcasts are forever. Yep. And it's incredible what can happen when you just stick a sure microphone in your face.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Absolutely. And real quick, I just feel obligated, not obligated, but I really want to stress that today's topic is I don't think there's more of a divisive topic in the world than religion. And, you know, disclaimer, these are opinions. And first and foremost, and I've talked about this, we respect your opinion to be different. I think that's where everything should start. So, you know, I I imagine this could, I don't know what this is gonna bring out in people. My girlfriend is uh Salvadorian, and not only is she uh uh Catholic, but recently she has really got involved with her church and the community and classes, and I see the benefit that what it does for her. I see the good side of it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

And the same, you know, my my companion, she's she's very Christian, and I think that's amazing. My sister is definitely more religious than myself, and that's I think that's amazing. I have, you know, aunts and uncles that are extremely religious, and I think that's amazing. I respect it, I love it, I love them for it, and it's a beautiful thing. It's just a different road that I traveled down to to lead me to different conclusions and spirituality and life and the world we live in, in my opinion, is exactly that. It's a it's a compilation of all my experiences and and things that I've witnessed and studied and felt and lived through and researched, and it just formed me into an individual. And again, like I don't claim to be an expert on anything. Don't believe me, people, for anything I say. I'm a dumbass when it comes to details, but I'm a professional at the details that I've experienced. That's all. So we definitely are gonna have different opinions on things, and that's a wonderful thing. There's a billion people on the planet, there's a billion different opinions about this, that, and the other. Mine's just one.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And it should be valid along with everyone else's.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

So here we go. Episode number four: gods in the sky, from religion to astrotheology. Belief systems can guide us, ground us, and give us meaning in our lives, but sometimes they can also raise questions that we cannot ignore. In this episode, we're going to talk with Aaron about the journey through religion, deconstruction, and the search for something deeper without dogma and without easy answers. Aaron, let's start at the beginning. What did religion look like in your life early on?

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yeah, that's that's a great starting point. When I was very young, as as people have learned that maybe personally don't know me, I'm mixed cultural background, so that also tends to mean that there's a couple different religious views and opinions in my immediate household and family. And so as a kid growing up in that kind of environment, you know, half the family was pretty strict Catholic. I don't know if strict's the right word. They were practicing Catholics, and then there was on my mother's side, her family was belongs to the Jehovah's Witness Church at the time. And when I was young, my first memory was was going to both of those kind of churches and facilities and institutions with different different parts of the family at different times. And it was always conflicting to me that there was so much different opinion of what was right and wrong and accepted religiously. And here I'm peeking through two different windows trying to figure out, well, damn, where do I fit? What does that mean if grandma and grandpa on this side are in this kind of building and pray this way, and you know, on the other side they're in this building and pray this way, and they both are very, very confident that they're doing the the right thing, and everybody else is wrong. So it was a little confusing from the the the get-go and the start. And at some point, I had to start thinking about religion as a whole. And I think for humans, I mean, religion is supposed to set the stage and kind of the outline after death. If we didn't die, I don't think we would be religious or we wouldn't have to try to figure out God or the world or the afterlife, heaven, hell, all these different stories and ideas and concepts. So religion is basically a band-aid for death in the human aspect, which is what I came to a conclusion at at a very young age. Now, one religion teaches you that if you are just and you do this and you do that and you do what's expected of you, you're gonna go to heaven, and in heaven, you know, your relatives are gonna be waiting for you. You're gonna see grandma and grandpa, aunties and uncles, brothers and sisters, whoever passed on before you generations, they're gonna prepare you this big, beautiful meal, and it's gonna be paradise. There's no pain, there's no suffering, there's no anger, there's no gossip, there's no jealousy, there's no negativity, just beautiful, whatever that is in your mind. And if you don't play by the rules, and if you don't do what's expected, you're gonna burn in hell forever. In a nutshell. I mean, there's much more to it than that, but that's very polarizing concept for a kid to try to understand. So you kind of go, okay, I need to follow the rules and be good. I need to behave. I don't want to burn in hell forever. I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do. And then you talk to somebody from another religion, and they have a totally different set of rules and expectations of how you're supposed to live your life and so on. So the rules never kind of coincide with each other, they don't overlap much together. So, okay, then you start thinking, well, when I die, am I gonna go to heaven or am I gonna go to hell? Because I don't know which rules to follow now. Right? So you start questioning what to believe, what what what to implement into your life, into your daily life. And I can say this in a very confident manner. I've been in lots of different churches. I've read the Bible many times. I've spoken to priests and rabbis and Buddhist people, uh, medicine men, lots of different religious leaders and spiritual leaders. Anytime that I've ever been in a church, I've never had that ominous God presence feeling around me at all. It always just seemed like a very human experience. It's this big, beautiful building, lots of cool stained glass and artifacts around the room and different decorations on the wall. You know, I always noticed the acoustics echoed a little different in a church than in any other building. It was a very human experience. It was meant for your eyes and your ears. And I've never felt anything affect my spirit when I was in a building like that. So I thought that was weird at a young age. I always felt close to God in the universe when I was outside. And to me, I felt this ominous God presence or creation when I was outside. So when I got older, let's say after high school, I went out and kind of tried to investigate that a little deeper. And the outdoors have always been where I've tapped into spirituality, where I've had my conversations with whatever you want to name God to be. You can call it whatever name you want to be, the God Force, the universal presence. I've always been able to have amazing conversations and connections when I was outside of nature. So I ended up traveling to different parts of the country and getting myself involved in very, very spiritual ceremonies with the Native theologies, Native American theologies, tribal spirituality. And for me, you know, that's that's where it just felt true. It felt connected to. And if you're not familiar with what vision questing is, you're basically going out in solitude by yourself, a spiritual leader, medicine man, tribal elder will take you up to this very beautiful location in the Black Hills called Bear Butte, Bear Butte, South Dakota. It's just outside of Sturgis. And it's a sacred place because this huge mountain has been used for vision questing for a couple thousand years in history, and that's all that happens there. And basically what you do is you strip yourself of all of your worldly things. There's no food, there's no water, there's no shelter, there's no comfort, there's no phones, there's no microwaves, there's no hotel rooms, there's no refrigerators. It's you and the earth and the universe. And you stay out there for four days and four nights. And this one little spot, little special spot picked specially for you to have your experience, your vision quest, and you talk to God, however, that is for you. There's no intercessor, there's no priest, there's nobody pointing their finger at you. It's you and the elements. And I'm gonna tell you something. There is something very, very beautiful, humbling, and magical when you find God in an element like that. It's not a building, it's not a preacher, it's not a priest, there's no rabbi, there's no book, there's no expectations. It's you and the elements. And most people today have never even slept on the earth. They think camping is in a tent or a camper, an RV. There is something very, very magical that you're missing out on when it's you, the earth right under you, and the stars right over you, and the sun right over you, and all the elements, and you stay up there in this vision quest for days and days and nights and nights. Doesn't matter if it rains on you, doesn't matter if it snows on you, if it hails on you, doesn't matter if there's a tornado out there. You stay there because that's your commitment to yourself to have that conversation with whatever it is that you're talking to. And I tell you what, after 15 years of doing that of my life, I've had my conversations and I continue to, but nobody can have that conversation for me. And that's where I found God.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Okay, lots to unpack here. Let's start further back. How do you get from Palm Springs to Utah? I mean, what was there something in the house that drove you out the house?

SPEAKER_03 17:59

No, it was my my search for myself. It was my search for my spirituality. It was my search internally that I kind of always talk about about finding my place in the world. I know I'm just not defined by the job that I do, my my occupation. Like you know me from the gym. I'm not a trainer, it's what I do. Yeah to me, I see a lot of people now, they consider themselves human beings trying to find a spiritual experience. I've always considered myself to be a spiritual being learning how to have a human experience. So I see it the exact opposite. So my human experience for me was to get out into the world and tap into my spirituality. I I felt confined and kind of a little less potential in the traditional framework of what was expected of me in society, right? So I wanted to get out and explore. Everybody at some point in their life has a question of what's this all about? Why are we here? What's life all about? What happens after death? You know, what happens when you die? All these things. Well, the only thing that I could tell myself and rationalize was you're gonna have to go out and find that because people are gonna lie to you about it. They're gonna tell you stories that they've heard, and they're gonna change that story a little bit from how they heard it to tell you. So I had to go out and find it myself. And to me, it was isolating myself out in nature and having my own vision quest.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Okay, because I feel like in most cases right now, we'd be hearing a story about something in the home or a broken home or something. So you're telling me what got you out the door and moving, you know, was a curiosity.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Yeah, 100% a curiosity. And it was it was the confusion of the conflicting religious beliefs in my family.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

So had you grown up in a household where it was one unified religion, perhaps this would not have happened.

unknown 19:59

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

She would have just bought that as like, this is the way.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

No, my immediate household, my mother, my father, they weren't very religious at face value. I didn't grow up knowing what they felt spiritually or what they believed in after you pass on, or if they or what they believe in in God, heaven, or hell. That wasn't kind of like commentary that was spoken in the house, but I seen how the conflict of religion affected my mom and dad within their own families. And within their own families, there was a little struggle and strife. And as a young person, I knew that struggle and strife was really not for me.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

I didn't even want to go down that road or that rabbit hole. Like to me, it seems much more significant opportunity to not be a part of that and go kind of find my own truth. So my curiosity is what took me out.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

I was very curious to see what life was without that conflict or struggle about what happens when you die.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

And who was it that got you to Utah?

SPEAKER_03 21:00

South Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

South Dakota, excuse me.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Um myself.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I know literally, but was there someone who said, you did you have a hippie uncle or something that said, hey, you know what, you should check this out?

SPEAKER_03 21:12

No. I just found that's where my spirituality was going to be rooted and connected.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

You had a friend out there?

SPEAKER_03 21:18

I know.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

You read it about it in a book?

SPEAKER_03 21:20

No.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

You didn't read it on the internet because the internet wasn't around.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

The internet was not around.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

You just got in a car and started driving to South Dakota.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Well, before that, I started going to sweat lodges here in California. Native American sweat lodges are kind of purifying. And then I I learned about a sundance ceremony over there, which I became part of as well. And so, yeah, there was there was nobody holding my hand through it. I mean, it was just kind of me trying to grow up and figure out my place in the world. And, you know, I've I've I I got to experience something pretty, pretty dang special, which I'll go into a little bit more detail here in the future.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

So that's that's uh just you know, I I have to chalk. Up to something, you know, and I'm trying to chalk it up to something. And I feel like it's just a question of youth. You have the burning desire to figure things out, and you have uh endless amounts of energy.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

I didn't even know if I was gonna find it in ceremonies, right? I didn't know if I was gonna find it in South Dakota or New Mexico or in this ceremony or that ceremony with this language attached to it, or that language, or this tribe, or that tribe, or I just knew what didn't work for me. So if something didn't work for me, like traditional religion, I had to go find out what worked for me. And that's that's what that's where it led me.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

So you get to South Dakota, was was the uh Native American tribes were they welcoming?

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Extremely welcoming, yeah. Yeah, like family.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Just come on in.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Got it. So you're out for four days in the wilderness alone.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Yep. No food, no water, nothing.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

You're stripped of all What was the most challenging, other than perhaps the lack of food or water, but mentally, what was the the challenging moment of was there a moment where you just went, oh my god, I can't lose in my mind? I mean, or was it just immediate clarity about all things?

SPEAKER_03 23:13

No, it actually took me a couple couple times and a couple different years of doing these these difficult ceremonies to figure out how to let go and to how to how to accept what was really supposed to be going on there. You go there and you you you're kind of open to something and you think you think you have it all figured out, but you you can always and I use this still today, and you know, you know this of me. You can always push a little farther. It's not gonna kill you. And that's where I learned it. You can always go a little deeper, you can always go a little farther. It might feel a little physically uncomfortable, emotionally uncomfortable, but beyond that difficulty, there's gonna be something beautiful. And I apply that even to my gym knowledge today, even to working out. You know, it's it's the core of who I am, and it's it's it's what I learned about myself and in this walk in in life. You know, it's it's what I learned, it's what I implement, and it's what I kind of speak about, and it's kind of what I put out there for other people to grab onto. You can always go a little farther. And in these ceremonies, the first thing you think about is okay, I'm alone. So you deal with that, and you might that might take you the first four days of your first year to figure out just how to be alone by yourself with with no structure around you, with no bed, with no refrigerator, with no TV, with no phone, with no other human to talk to.

unknown 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

So there's a big challenging moment just dealing with being by yourself in nature. And then, you know, obviously, at some point, maybe the first year, the second day, the second year, the first day, you're gonna be like, God damn it, I'm hungry. Like, I what am I doing out here with no food? There's a refrigerator full of food I can eat at any restaurant. And then the water comes into play. Oh my God, I'm so thirsty. I want to brush my teeth, I want to take a shower. You know, comfort, amenities. So you're sacrificing everything that you understand that makes you feel good to have this vision of clarity and understanding of who you are.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

You said that you found God. Now, I feel like we, you know, that word is used. And I'm not, I'm not Catholic, and we have this conversation. We be me, my girlfriend, and I the other day said, Thank God. She goes, that. So what is, when you say you found God, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 25:29

It's that ominous, you know, universal energy and force that's in everything in nature. And if you've never experienced that force I'm talking about, you probably spent a lot of time in a building. You've probably never slept on the ground. You've probably never been without food and water outside in the elements. When you're exposed to the elements, you're gonna find that universal God force of nature everywhere around you, underneath you, above you. It's it's it's hard to describe into something that's tangible, right? Because it's not, it doesn't have a face to it. It doesn't have a voice to it. It's it's something you have to experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah, I was gonna ask a vision quest. I mean, you're out there. I mean, what do you feel? Like, can you feel the earth move?

SPEAKER_03 26:19

You feel it vibrate under you all the time. You feel it vibrate under you. The trees, they kind of start swaying in a different, different manner than if you're just outside going from your house to work and you see the wind blow. It's almost like a breath. It's a universal breath. You you you see how everything's connected. You feel how everything's connected, and you feel a part of it because you're putting yourself into it. So nowadays we eliminate ourselves from it. We keep ourselves from being part of the world and the universe by putting our shoes on and, you know, waking up to an alarm clock instead of the sun rising. You know, we go to sleep at night because we have to get up at a certain time to go to work or to go to school. We we very much remove ourselves from the natural circadian rhythm of the world. We're the only animals that do that. Every other animal on the planet is fine out there on the earth and with the stars above them and the ground under their feet. Every animal is okay with that, but us. There's an anxiety, there's a fear, there's a doubt, there's the boogeymans out there at night. We have all these different things going through our mind that keep us from tapping into what we're born from. It is our birthright to sleep under the stars. That's we're an animal of this planet. It's it's it's essential. And I think the less people do that, the more disconnected we get from it. And then we're trying to find God through artificial ways because we're not we're not out in nature anymore. We're not looking up at the stars and watching the constellations and the sunrise and the sunset. There's a lot of people that I know that have never even seen the sunrise. It's too early. What am I going to be up for? What am I going to see the sunrise for?

unknown 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

That's going to get us into our astrotheology talk in the future. That sun is amazing. That's the light of the world. That's the antagonist of darkness. That light of the world wakes you up every day like everything else on the planet and gives gives you hope to live and and and thrive.

unknown 28:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

That sun doesn't rise up in the morning, we're doomed. So at night, before electricity, before computers, before, you know, lights and clocks and calendars, the darkness was a pretty scary place. You know, so every every morning the sun rises, there's salvation there. There's there's relief there. You feel your stress go away. If you see this tattoo, you can see it. Nobody else can. This tattoo that I have on my forearm, it's a depiction of the morning star. And when I was doing my vision questing, there's an amazing magical moment on the planet right before the sun rises, and that's the only star you see in the sky. There's a stillness that you can only experience if you're sleeping out there, not in a tent. And it's when that morning star is up in the sky before the sun rises, you can't see any other stars. There's this buzz and there's this hum on the earth that is so calming. You can hear the animals start waking up. You can hear the trees start waking up, you start waking up. And that's why I have it tattooed on my arm to remember that's a very special experience that I had was to experience life when the morning star is the only thing in the sky. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

What's something that has happened to you on one of your vision quests that you've never talked about?

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Well, I can't talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

I'm hosting a podcast here.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

There's there's there's there's nothing really that I can't talk about. There's not a specific situation or instance.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I mean, were you scared? Were you ever like Of course? Yeah, like I'm out here, I'm Of course. I mean, do you have clothes on?

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Uh shorts, yeah. And a really thin blanket. And actually, these blankets that were handmade for me when I when I when I do these ceremonies, that depiction that's on the blankets, it's called a star quilt. And that star quilt has the same star that's tattooed on my forearm right here, that morning star. And the last time that I had one of those made for me, that I did that ceremony, and I gave that blanket to my mom. So I don't know if she understands that's what the blanket is. That blanket was around me when I was vision questing my last time, and she has that blanket with that same star depicted on it. Got it. Well, she does now. She does now, yeah. I'm pretty sure I told her.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

But you know, okay, so you've had this incredible experience. Now you've got a path that you're walking on that you have come to by your own actions. How did it make you view organized religions after obtaining this knowledge or experience?

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Well, in general, I think religion is pretty solid. You know, religion, like I said earlier, it's kind of a platform and a guidelines to prepare you for what's next, right? What I don't like about organized religions is the human aspect. I don't trust people, man. I don't trust human beings. We're not very trustable animals. We lie, we cheat, we steal, we manipulate, we try always trying to get over on each other. I don't trust people. So to me, traditional religions are designed by human beings. And if anything's designed by human beings, I already, there's already red flags associated with me. And this has to do with like my family experiences as a as a as a young person of religion as well. I don't think the Bible is a bad thing. I think that it's written by men is a bad thing. I think it's a really good outline of how to live a just and true and prosperous life. But the Bible gets rewritten every year. There's constantly new editions and revisions. And if that was the words of some God for us that we call Jesus, Buddha, Allah, whatever we name, if that was God's words, how can men revise and edit it? How is their books omitted from the original text that that Bible was written in? So to me, it's it's it's a trust thing. I don't trust people. So if people say, hey, this is this is our guideline, this is what we're gonna go off, I'm gonna call bullshit on it. Not everybody, you know, like my my companion, your companion, there's some relatives in my family that really live just beautifully. They they they walk the best that they can, and re traditional religion helps them accomplish that. So I can have nothing but support for that. It's just not for me. I don't trust it myself.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

You know, something there was uh two events that sort of led me to where I'm at now that have happened within the last year. And one of the things that you said, because I was throwing shade, I think, or being doubtful with regards to people who always do use the word spiritual. And I said, I don't know. I mean, it just sounds like you know some hippy-dippy stuff. Yeah, it sounds like when someone says African American, like they're trying not to say something else. Right. You know? And let me clarify that real quick. I, you know, I call people black or white. I don't go, you're an American. You're not, I mean, I'm what part of Africa are you from? Are you Egyptian?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

No, I don't think so. And if someone called me Swedish American, I'd probably laugh in their face, but that's a whole nother episode. So what you the thing that you've said and when sort of correcting me, going, No, you are spiritual, and started asking me a series of questions. And religion is man-made. And I thought, you know what? You're absolutely right. It's been created by man, and I don't mean to get ahead of myself here, but in thinking about use, I'm gonna use the word God as something, or maybe someone, something that has created this universe. I don't think we as human beings on planet Earth have any more of a grasp on what that is than my dog looking at my clock. How could we? Do you know what I mean? And to be able to say it was this chain of events, it was this person, that's where it loses me a little bit. And I've been my whole life, it's in me to automatically kind of like try to like, I don't know, have some sort of not doubt, but I'm not someone that just follows a group. I never have in anything, and a little bit of a devil's advocate in that way, but devil's advocate. Um but it's man-made and it's produced by a publisher, and you know, I want to be able to speak on this intelligently. So this is called the road to astrotheology, and when we actually talk about astrotheology, looking at the story of Jesus, that story or very similar stories have been told throughout history. I mean, to the day.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

Yeah, thousands and thousands of years before the concept of the world.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

And speaking of Africa, correct. I mean, that story has mirrored it, goes all the way back to the Phoenicia Canaanite days, pre-Egypt, even. And I'm gonna have to, I've been working on some notes based on some materials that I'm using, and you go, well, that's an awful coincidence. But they're all drawing from the same source. Right. And but I just don't know that's that God has ever been man-made, especially by Random House or King James. That's where it starts to lose me a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

But to your point, well, King James, King James actually paid scribes. What is a scribe? A scribe writes scripts, right? So he King James actually paid scribes and golden hookers to write the to write the his version. Paul comes back to that. Yeah, so gold and in and whores were the cost of of of what he paid for the King James version to be published.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

And he he correct me if I'm wrong, what was the relationship between at the time King James and the Pope?

SPEAKER_03 36:46

He said, Hey, look, if all falls apart, we're gonna lean into the Well at the time the Pope was named by the king as the vicar of the country. And the vicar is supposed to be the stand-in for God until God returns. So when God returns, if Jesus or whatever you name it, returns, the Pope will no longer be the boss of the sauce, not run the church. But until that happens, the Pope's going to be understood to be the vicar of the community, which means the representative between the government and God. So it was it was a it was a partnership between politics and religion developed way back that you'd never have a political decision that wasn't supported by religion, you wouldn't have a religious decision that was supported by the government.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

So a man-made institution is aligned itself with political interest.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

You know, and folks, let me be very clear. I've been in bad enough turbulence to find Jesus real quick. Yeah, it just makes me so sick to my stomach that it's used politically, especially now more than ever, and you know, God bless, and you know, some dickhead at the Academy Awards thanking or crediting God, and it just uh puked. But through my girlfriend and through her, you know, exposing me to what it is to be a Catholic, I really have seen the good that it can do.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

It's beautiful. It's beautiful. There's beautiful Catholics, there's beautiful Christians, there's beautiful Buddhists, there's beautiful people in religion. It's just the institution of religion is a hard one for me to swallow.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

I just don't trust people in general.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

And when you see what it's all based in, yeah, which is something that's since the dawn of time, right? As far as times of the year where the sun is. Absolutely. Light, no light, the brightest. My only goal here is, and it's really hard, folks, is to capture a percentage of what we how natural conversation unfolds while we're training.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Yeah. And these are all conversations we have. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

And I'm always like, shit, I wish the mics were on. The whole age of Aquarius and why things are happening at this point in history as we move into the next.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Right. And and and again, I'm not run with that. I'm not a crystal totin hippie new age kind of person at all. I actually kind of frown on that whole community a little bit. They're a little obnoxious. You go to you go to Sedona, Arizona, or Zion, you know, and you go to these other places and oh my gosh, this vortex, and they get out their crystals and they kind of take over the town. This is not the the direction I'm coming from at all. Oh, I don't wow. But like I said, when you're out there on the landscape and it's you and everything that is represented by creation above you and below you, and there's no distractions, you have a different perspective on things. And all you have to do is look up at the sky at night, and there's something amazingly magical if you're away from the city enough to where there's no light pollution, and you can see all the stars and all the planets and all the constellations crystal clear, and you're out there for four days and four nights at a time, and all you have time to do is watch it and study and be a part of it. Let's start with the sun. The sun rises every day and brings light onto the world, makes the plants grow, makes the animals happy, it feeds us, it gives us vitamin D, takes away the darkness and the scary things that the lions and the tigers and the bears of the old world that used to come and feed on people in the night. That was a scary time to be on the planet. Now we have concrete buildings, steel buildings, you know, guns, alarms, lights, fences. We have all this stuff to kind of keep everything else out. But what it does is it keeps us in. So if you look at the sun, let's let's do this. Everybody that's listening right now, just go on your Google browser and just type in one word. No other commands. And I just want you to type in the word Jesus. Just that it, that alone. Just type in Jesus and click images. I guarantee you, 99% of the images that you're gonna scroll through right now display either a full body or a face of a man with some kind of a sun radiating behind his head. Think about that for a minute. Look at those images, scroll up and down. Not saying anything about it yet, just look at what you're seeing. No other commands other than the word Jesus. Now, if you look up into the sky and you start looking at all these constellations and this movement and this magical planet universe that we live in, you asked about Aquarius. And we're in the age of Aquarius, which means for about 2,250 years, at the equinox, the sun is delivered from the constellation Aquarius, which is which is known as the water bearer. We're not quite in Aquarius yet. We're entering into that period. We're leaving the age of Pisces. And Pisces is represented by a constellation that depicts two fish. So we're leaving the age of Pisces and we're entering into the age of Aquarius, meaning that for the next 2,150 so years on the equinox, the sun is going to have the constellation Aquarius behind it. And that's a picture of water being poured by a man in the visual version of Aquarius. We're entering the age of Aquarius. Just like all those old hippie songs from our parents, Age of Aquarius.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

It's why you see Jesus written in the fish on the back of pickup trips.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

The fish definitely have to do with Christianity. Yeah, Pisces the fish. There's a reason. There's a reason. If you if you look at bumper stickers and and and shirts and you know emblems and designs of Christianity, there's always those fish. And it's not because they say Jesus was the fisher of man. What they're saying is the Son of God, the sun that rises every day and delivers us from the darkness, was delivered from the constellation of Pisces. And when you go counterclockwise on the procession of the zodiac, every 2,150 years, it changes into a new house. And to the date on the calendar, plus or minus 50 years, 2,157. Years, the major religious influence on the world shifts. And for the past 2,000 plus years, we've been in the age of Christianity under Pisces. But we're shifting into the age of Aquarius soon. So I think there's a little bit of disarray on the planet. People are getting nuts because there's a transition that's coming. And that transition that's coming might lead to a different kind of theological approach on the world as it has every couple thousand years in the past. So it has to do with the constellations and where they're positioned for a couple thousand years that determines the religious influence that's heavy on the planet at the time. So before us, we were in Aries, before Pisces. And Ares represented the Hebrew. And the Hebrew, Aries the Ram, if you look at any synagogue or you talk to any very, very traditional devout Jewish person, there's always a ram's horn on their altar. And a couple thousand years ago, when that was the major influence, and we were in the constellation of Ares the Ram, those people thought that in the mornings the priests would wake up, they would take that ram's horn because of Ares the Ram, and they would blow it east at the sky. And they thought that Ramshorn would help the sunrise and deliver him from the darkness. Before that, you go back into Phoenicia Canaanites, two, 2,000 plus years before the Hebrews had the religious influence on the world. It was Hebrew, and it was under the golden calf of Taurus the Bull. So early, early, early, early Phoenicia Canaanites, Africa, Egypt, they would slaughter the sacred calf to help the sun come up every day. So they would spill the blood of the of the calf of Taurus the Bull. And they did that for about 2,000 years. So every 2,000 years, there's a huge shift in religious approach. And it always comes back to those changing of the zodiacs.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Interesting. Well, you know, this is a lot to digest. And this is going to be an ongoing conversation because we're leading to something that I think, you know, and I think everyone, you just need to find something and identify with it. I'd prefer that we all identified with something that didn't create war, you know, that didn't wasn't used as a tool of, you know, human life loss, the loss of human life, but that's just me. And leading to astrotheology, because I'd never heard of it. And you started telling me about it as I was taking extremely long walks every morning in the pitch black and watching the sun come up. But here we're going to stay on point with religion. I mean, do you think religion is more about truth or maintaining order in society?

SPEAKER_03 47:01

I mean, you can debate either aspect. I don't know if it's more or less one way or the other. I think that depends on the religious person that you have a conversation with. And me not being a religious person, I have I have an opinion that it's probably about more about maintaining order. It's a it's a huge system that helps kind of control and manipulate the flow of people in general. And I think anytime you have a system like that, it could be a little dangerous and exploitive. But there's beautiful, devout, amazing, positive people within those religious dynamics that live amazing lives, right? They're they're they mean well and they're living their best life and and and they're living how they feel they need to live, and I think that's amazing. Yeah. But in general, I think it's it's more about controlling. In general, the institution of it.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Not the individual.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Why do you think so many religions claim exclusivity?

SPEAKER_03 47:59

Because one has to be right.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

That theirs is the only truth.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

Because there can only be one truth if you're speaking God's word, right? You can't have five different opinions or ten different opinions because that would mean there would be ten different God opinions. So everyone has to claim that they are the just, the true, and the only way, because it wouldn't make any sense to have anything else out there that would be equal to. It has to be only one voice for it to work. That's where our all these people war and hate each other. So if you look at what's happening in Palestine, that's an old religious war, man. That that's not political. That's that's an old religious war. Gaza, all that place, everything that's getting smothered in death and bombs has always been death and bombs there.

unknown 48:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

And it's it's always because there has to be only one religious view. There has to be one opinion. And if there's one opinion that is correct, every other religious opinion has to be not incorrect, right? For it to make sense. So if every religion thinks they're correct, every other religion is incorrect. So there is no correct or incorrect. They're all wrong. If there's only one right, then they're all wrong. They're all wrong. And they're all wrong because they're human-based. Humans the human is the ingredient in that failure. Not spirituality, not God, not the universe. It's the human interaction what makes it not work.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

I can't remember what we've talked about on the air and what we we have and haven't, but I I liked one day we were talking, and you had mentioned that we're the aliens. We're always constantly like, where are the aliens coming? We're the we're the aliens. We come here, we suck all the resources, screw each other over, for sure. Fight for a little piece of dirt, yeah, claim our own folks. Look in the mirror, we're the aliens.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

And on the topic of religion, since we're talking about religion, you know, like I've like I said, I've read the Bible many times. If you go into Genesis, the book of Genesis in the beginning, it's the creation story, right? And how we interpret Genesis is, you know, there's Adam and Eve, and they're supposed to be the first people. And this is where I called bullshit, even at a young age. Sorry to my family and and relatives that believe it so heartily. I love you guys, and I love that you love these stories, and I love that it's a part of your life. It's just not my my conclusion to my truths. But if you read the read the Bible, there's Adam and Eve, and they're protected in this what is it, the Garden of Eden, correct? And they're told to stay within this Garden of Eden because they'll be protected. So they they have kids, Cain and Abel. But if God created men, man, Adam and Eve, and kept them protected in a garden, if there was nothing else out there, what are they protecting them from? Okay, so now you're talking to archaeologist Aaron. Archaeologist Aaron knows that there's hominid creatures that predate 2,000 years ago when the Bible started, or Christianity started. There's fossil records of humanoids and hominid creatures out there for tens and thousands of hundreds of thousands of years, and go all the way back to the skeleton of Lucy. So these cavemen that were on the planet, you know, they kind of grunted and they they had a hard time even figuring out how to build fire. All of a sudden on the timeline, Homo sapiens come around, Adam and Eve, whatever the first people that you think are, and they're already so more advanced than the cavemen that's outside of the garden that they're being protected from. They were all functioning out there. There's Neanderthals out there before Adam and Eve. That's provable. We can go to the museum, we're not gonna find Adam and Eve skeleton, but we will find the Neanderthal skeletons. They were out there. So if they were out there pre-Adam and Eve, this made me question the story that I read in Genesis. And I started talking to rabbinical leaders, rabbis in in Los Angeles, and what they said was that you're you're not reading that right. If you read that in the the old text, it says Elohim, and this is a religious talk, so this is just something to think about, people. Elohim pluralizes God into gods, so it's not a singular person. And Elohim says in Tofu Vavohu it was a waste and a desolation. And we interpret the Genesis story of void, what's the words they use in modern terms? Without shape and void. So there was nothing. That's how we interpret it. And God created Adam and Eve. In the original text, it's translated the gods, Elohim, and Tofu Vavohu. Look that up. It's a waste and a desolation. There was already creation there and it went to shit. Fell apart. So they replenished men and man. And the Bible, it says it in the Bible, and I'm not religious, it says we're gonna re-replenish man. Really? What does re mean? Do it again. Something fucked up. There were some mistakes. Didn't like the way the caveman worked. They weren't quite getting it. So we're gonna re-recreate man more in our likeness, is what the words actually say. So we're gonna give them a little bit of our mojo and our magic, our intelligence, our wisdom. And now that's what we're from. We're from the recreation of the hominid creatures that predate Adam and Eve, the Neanderthals. We're a redo. We're a redo. We're I don't know, second, third, fourth, five, sixth, seventh, eighth batch of hominid creatures until we get to this point. There's a fossil record that goes way, way, way back. And the original text in the Bible, because I I I've written it many times or read it many times and talked to rabbis and people that understand old old Hebrew and language. They said Elohim said to replenish the earth in more in our likeness. That's the original interpretation.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Well, folks, I want you to think on all of this and now imagine an intense kettlebell legs day. Come and get it. Right in the middle of doing all that legs work, Aaron hits you with this. Come and get it. I mean, there's just it's just uh an abyss of uh, you know, possibilities and information. But I I think when you're talking about things or challenging things, you know, you need to offer a solution. And an episode coming up very soon will offer the solution. But in closing, I feel like there is something you had on your chest that you wanted to talk about with regards to this episode, religion, sharing it, you know, with the people, with the people that know you. Is there something that you'd like to say?

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Uh it was more an opportunity just to kind of let people know when they were wondering or wondering, I'm sorry, about what I was doing, why I disappeared, why I was kind of out and about and not coming to lots of family function. It's because I was out learning about myself, and that was it. Everybody has their own vision and story of their friend Aaron or their brother Aaron or their son Aaron or their cousin Aaron or you know, their coworker Aaron, and he's got all these amazing stories and experiences, but what was he actually doing out there? I was very simply just trying to find my place in the world and the universe and kind of sift through, like this podcast says, you know, through the chaos. And I was having converse conversations with myself and the universe a whole lot. And there's just some amazing experiences that I've had in that process. You know, I've seen very, very miraculous things. I've seen life-changing things. I've been a part of life-changing things, and it's it's shaped and kind of formed who I am. And I just want everybody to know that you don't really need to create your own narrative of what I was doing or what I'm about. You know, I'm open to conversations nowadays, man. You can just come up and talk to me about it, family or friends, or strangers or not. You know, I'm I'm ready to have these conversations with everybody and kind of express myself honestly and not have to pull back anymore. So if you're interested, you know, even my my immediate family, just that's all you have to do is talk to me.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

What so hang on a second. Your mother did not know where you were when you were doing these things, these vision quests. No. You just disappeared, you're out in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Good heavens.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Yeah, it was for me. It wasn't for anybody else. Sure, I I get that.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

But and I can see the worry why someone might not worry is maybe not, but I think it's a great word, actually.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

I think she always knew that I was okay. I mean, I'd check in, I'd come back, you know, a year later or whatever. Sorry, mom, to put you through hell if I did that, but I mean, you know, I have a great relationship. Your daughter disappears. Yeah. I mean, we're we're very open and have a great relationship nowadays. Yeah. I was out discovering myself and the world, and to me, that didn't include everybody else. I had to go do that my own. I couldn't expect anybody else to come along for that ride or to to understand the ride that I was trying to go on or how far down the road I was trying to get. Yeah. You know, because I think other people, it's kind of weird. When you when you go out on a on a journey by yourself, and this is for everybody to think about, when you go out and try to figure out yourself and the world that you live in, you know, you can't expect other people to hop on that that train with you. You have to do it for you. You have to put in the work, you have to put in the experiences, you have to, you have to put in the walk and the effort and not expect any support from anybody else. And in doing that, now I can come back to everybody else that I have in my life and love and adore and share those experiences and hopefully it helps, you know. But I had to do that myself. So to answer your question, yeah, my mom didn't know exactly what I was doing. She's learning just as all of you are right now.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

In real time. In real time.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

She's she can't wait for this episode and all the rest. She's kind of one of the biggest fans of the podcast because she's she's anticipating like, what is my son going to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Yeah, that is for you. In closing, do you think people are afraid to question religion because of what they might lose if it's not true?

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a big part of it. And plus you're conditioned to not question it. But yeah, that like I said, you know, and like a lot of people say, truth will set you free. So, you know, a lot of people can't handle the truth, you know. It's just like that Jack Nicholson movie, or I think it was Jack Nicholson. You want the truth, you can't handle the truth. So we're not we're not ready to handle the truth. And, you know, our life experiences are kind of interpreted and and filtered through our mind and our senses, and even those can trick you and lie to you. But um, people can't handle the truth, man. And and something deep as religion, you're kind of conditioned and told not to question it, right? You just stay in line. If you want to go up into heaven and see all your relatives and have that big meal waiting for you, you you you do what you're told and you don't ask questions, you don't step out of line, you know, because you don't want to burn in that fire forever. Torture and pain. Yeah, or whatever they teach nowadays. I don't know if that's still a thing, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Um have you ever had a colonoscopy? No, you've never had a colonoscopy.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

No. No, I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

You're not gonna it's coming though. It's coming. I'm definitely overdue. God aside, you need to have a colonoscopy.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

And where I'm going with this is Is that a religious experience?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

There's a drug they give you. I think it's called properol. Properol? Propofol. Maybe that's it. And you have never drifted off faster, more relaxed. Like I've had surgeries, I've had propofol before. Okay, yeah. You know what I mean? Like you are, you feel a little chilly and boom, you're gone. Yeah. I think that's what death is. And the problem is life is like the preparation day before the colonoscopy. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Get ready for it. It's coming. That's life, folks. You know, you gotta take the shit medicine. Yeah. And then so I don't know that, like, you know, I'm gonna wake up after closing my eyes and being a you know, a garden and all that. It'd be great. I hope I'm wrong to some degree. You are, you know. But you know, I say it confidently, you are.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

Yeah. A garden is very human experience, it's not a spiritual experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

You know, I have a hard time with it. Yeah, but so all right, folks. Well, this has been Cruise Control. Thank you for tuning in. If you've uh enjoyed this episode, feel free to let us know if you've had a problem with this. By all means, take it up with Aaron. This is his show. The fireballs begin. This has got nothing. I'm just the host here, okay? Like leave me out of it. This has been cruise control. We're looking forward to what's next. We're either going to continue this conversation and you know, provide perhaps some some guidance or some, I guess for lack of better words, answer. Or we're gonna talk about your life working at a strip club. I'm gonna one of the two of them. They're both amazing. Sure, what episode is gonna come next. We are really looking forward to bringing it to you. I am uh Arrington Williams, Aaron Cruz. We'll see you guys next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

Bye guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

That's it for this conversation on cruise control. Thank you for spending time with us, listening, thinking, and navigating the chaos. These conversations don't end here. So take what resonates, question what doesn't, and carry it in your own work. Physical, mental, and spiritual. If you enjoyed the show, subscribe, follow, and share it. We'll be back soon with another conversation. Until next time, stay grounded, stay curious, and keep your cruise control steady.