Identity, Family, and Transition

In this deeply personal episode of Cruz Control, Aaron Cruz sits down with Kiki Solano for an open and honest conversation about identity, family, and the journey of transitioning from female to male.

Together, they reflect on self-discovery, growing up, navigating today's world, and the challenges and rewards of understanding one another through change. Along the way, they explore how family relationships evolve, what it means to be seen for who you truly are, and the importance of curiosity, communication, and compassion.

This isn't a political debate or a discussion of headlines. It's Kiki's experiences, perspective, and lessons learned along the way.

At its heart, this episode is about family, identity, and the courage to become who you are.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Cruise Control. Navigating the Chaos. One conversation at a time. This is an ongoing conversation with Aaron Cruz, a competitive bodybuilder, mixed martial artist, ironworker, business owner, researcher, philosopher, spiritual explorer, and much more. Each episode explores where physical discipline meets inner work, where strength, belief, ancestry, and purpose intersect. No scripts, no personas, just an honest conversation about the many layers that shape how to move through the world. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Hello and welcome to Cruise Control, Navigating the Chaos One Conversation at a Time. Well, today's episode is something special. It is officially our first guest, and dare I say a little bit more personal. Over the years, Aaron and I have talked about strength, identity, belief systems, and what it means to find your place in the world. Today, we are joined by someone who has lived that journey in a real way. This conversation is not about politics, headlines, or social media debates. It's about family, identity, self-discovery, and the experience that shapes who we become. Aaron, who do we have the pleasure of having on the show today?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Well, hello, everybody. Um seems like it's been a while since we've been here, but welcome back to all the listeners and friends and family out there. Um, like Errington was saying, we're super excited. We have a little bit different show today, a little bit different discussion today. It's less about me, finally. And I'm excited about that because I don't want to bore you guys with all my details and stories all the time, but there's there's many more to come. But today we have Kiki, Kiki Solano, joining us today on Cruise Control Podcast. And it's uh it's a conversation that I'm fascinated to have. Uh Kiki is part of my family. Um and I'll get into a little bit detail of of how we're connected down the timeline of Kiki's story, but I want to welcome Kiki to the podcast and uh introduce introduce Kiki to the world. How's it going, Kiki?

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Good, good. Uh I want to thank you guys for having me. I've been following along with the show uh since the beginning, and every conversation is a good one.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Oh, good, good. This is gonna be a gooder one.

SPEAKER_06 2:22

Definitely privileged to be here. So thank you. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Thank you. Um let's just start at the beginning. Um I know a lot of these answers um because of our connection, but I want to approach it kind of like I don't know any of anything about you, right? So I'm fascinated to get to know you uh in a different different light and a deeper level. Obviously have nothing but respect and love for you and adore you as much as the rest of your family does. So um thank you for being here. Um we really appreciate it. And I know this conversation is gonna reach a lot of listeners and it's gonna help people kind of navigate through some things that maybe they're tripping up on or maybe don't understand about their own lives, right? So um where were where where'd you grow up?

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Uh grew up. Here in Palm Springs. Um my whole life until I was about 16. Um, then I left and moved straight to LA to go to college. And that um that kind of skyrocketed my growth as far as the conversation we're gonna have today. Um, but how do you want me to start? What what do you want me to do?

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Well, hang on. I uh real quick, I want to back up. Yeah, let me help set a foundation here because you come from a huge family. I've known you, we've been training for over a year, that's three to five days a week. Uh, and inevitably you talk about your personal lives, and you have a tremendous amount of brothers and sisters, and then we bring in your immediate kids. Correct. I've seen the Hawaii family vacation photo, and I needed one of those, you know, tickers to keep track of the amount of kids in in this in this photo. It's truly incredible. So you grew up with a lot of brothers and sisters, correct? Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

So there's uh six of us total, um, five of us from the same two parents, one um with a different dad, but you know, she's grew up with the rest of us just the same. And um, I was a middle child, so you you know, the the common thing you hear about middle kids they're kind of forgotten about. So that kind of gave me the freedom kind of to kind of do what I want and be who I am. Uh so that was kind of nice. But um it was nice to always have somebody around. And even though we're all kind of grown up, we're all like 20s, 30s, um, the younger one is still only 11. But the way we grew up, we still keep in contact and we're still very close. And I think the one thing our parents taught us, and I don't know how to replicate this and to teach other kids if I were to have my own, but no matter how far we are, you can always ask any of them for help and they'll say yes. Well, that's good. They'll try and figure out a way to help you. And you know, the same thing, they can always call me and I'll figure out what I can do for my siblings. Um, because we were just that close growing up. Like we always had each other summers, we didn't do summer camps, we hung out with each other and bugged each other until we got sick of one, go find another one to play with.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

You know, plenty of options to run through.

unknown 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

So, and you said something about because I can relate to it, this must have felt like a small place to grow up. And you had your sight set on the big city. Is that kind of what happened?

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Uh honestly, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be real about it. And and I just wanted to leave because there was a lot of drama happening in my house at the time with my mom and whoever she was dating at the time. And my parents got divorced when I was in high school, and after that, it just got really messy. And and it was kind of it kind of felt like we had to pick a side um between my mom and my dad. And I just it was really hard for me because I wanted to be with my friends, but they're like, Oh, this is your dad's weekend, you gotta go spend time with your dad. And he lived in La Quinta, which Palm Springs to La Quinta isn't far, but if you don't have a car and you're a high school kid, you know the tail's like a million miles away.

SPEAKER_06 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

And I wanted to be with my friends, and I didn't want to be over there sitting in the house waiting for him to come home from work. Um, no disrespect to my dad, you know, he's a very artworking man, and and he's taught me everything I know, and I have the work ethic of my dad. And I can work seven, eight, nine nights in a row, and I'm, you know, I won't complain. But um, I think I also have my mom's heart. So I I will show up any anywhere and anywhere that my family wants me to be. So I feel like I'm a good mix of both of them, and I got I got a little bit of mix of their best and worst qualities.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

So yeah, yeah, yeah. I know I can relate. My parents got divorced really young and married a series of people, uh, most of which I would say I wasn't a fan of, still not a fan of. That never goes away. So I I got on the on the run and moved off to cities and whatnot. But um, so that was a a big game changer for you, though, once you got out on your own and moved to Los Angeles. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

It was it was kind of me removing myself from the drama and being able to focus on my own needs and my own life and uh kind of getting myself started. And along the lines of dating terrible people, I will say Aaron is the first and only man that my mom has dated that I like and love even, you know, to welcome him as a part of our family and and uh you know, we're blessed to have him around and and to to know his kids as well. And you know, that Hawaii family vacation was amazing. You know, that was the first time we all had spent multiple days together and it was seamless. Like everybody got along, everybody was there for each other, the the jokes, the memories, everything was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Thank you for that. Absolutely, yeah. I've I've that's you you know me, and that's very mutual. Like I love all of you guys like my own kids too. So um it's it's it's amazing. But to circle back a little bit about being raised with a big family and kind of always having that support. Was there ever a time in your in your life where you didn't feel like you had support, or were they always behind you and with you and supportive of of what you're doing?

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Um I want to say they were always there. There was a long time where they didn't know about what I was going through because I was so far removed in LA and I just wouldn't answer their phone calls, I wouldn't come and visit. I I just needed time to be by myself and to kind of figure my own stuff out. But um I'm I'm pretty sure this conversation is gonna be more geared towards like gender and sexuality. Um, because I'm the one in my family who is straight the furthest away from what I was born as. Um so I feel like I've lived three separate lives. You know, now I identify as a non-binary, trans mass person. My preferred pronouns are they, them, but I use any of them. It doesn't really bother me too much. Um, my family will still call me she, her, which kind of gets confusing to people in public because of the way I look and sound, and people will get really confused, but it doesn't bother me at this point. I've been living my life this way long enough that if you know me, you know who I am and what I stand for. And if you don't know me, I really don't care what you think or what you have to say about the way I live my life. Um but my first life I lived, I grew up as a I was born as a little girl. And I grew up from birth to about 12 years old, and then I came out as a lesbian. Um, I just never really felt like liking men was something I that came natural to me. It felt something that I had to force. And so I was like, you know, this doesn't feel right. And so I lived one life from zero to twelve as a straight identifying female uh kid. And then I came out as twelve at 12 to my mom. 12 might seem a little bit young, but I was already in high school.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

So So from from zero to twelve, were you already having kind of like conflicting thoughts or uh issues battling around in your mind or confusing thoughts about yourself at that point or not not so much yet?

SPEAKER_04 9:29

It wasn't too many like thoughts. It was more my actions. So like I wanted to wear my dad's t-shirts, I wanted to wear soccer shorts, I wanted to wear all these sporty athletic boyish things. And my mom came, no, you need to wear this shirt with the lace on it, you need to wear this dress, you need to wear uh just you know, a bunch of like feminine girl clothes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

So the the the the probably just thought you were like a tomboy at that point.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Yeah, so that for a long time that's what that's what she thought. And and I never had the desire to pick out feminine clothes, it was always my mom dressing me. And so I'm like, you know, I'll wear it because she wants me to, but this I don't feel comfortable in this. And um to I thought I would just grow out of that, to be honest. And I never grew out of it. I more grew into it and kind of just started I would steal my little brother's clothes because my mom wouldn't buy me the boy clothes I wanted to. So he's a little he's a lot slimmer than me. So it was slim pickings for what would fit me. But I would go in his closet and grab a couple things and he would never see him again.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

But um it was never the Sunday dress and and girl sandals, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Yeah, and I think that's trying to get us to go to church every Sunday, and I think that was part of the reason why I didn't want to go. Not because I didn't want to practice religion or I didn't want to learn about God and Jesus and all those things, but because I didn't feel comfortable dressing that way to go there.

SPEAKER_06 10:39

Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

And um school clothes I can get away with, you know, school uniform, it was easier, but to go in into public spaces like that where I have to dress more feminine for like a fancier event, that that was the things that I I didn't like to do.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

So where where does where does that go unpacking that from from zero to twelve and then kind of realizing you don't you don't like wearing the Sunday dress and the and like the cute little girly sandals and purses and this and that? Like what what does that lead you into next?

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Uh so it's funny because my mom would always ask me, she kind of presented the idea, she would ask me all the time, like, Oh, are you gay? Are you gay? Are you gay? And it kind of felt like uh like one of those things when you're a little kid and you get in trouble because you did something and they're asking you, Did you do this? And you know you did, but you still want to lie about it anyways. Sure. Like if I say yes, I'm gonna get in trouble. So it felt like that. So I always told her no until one day she asked me and I said yes. And I think it caught her by surprise because she was like, What do you mean? I said, Well, you've been asking me repeatedly, it seems like this is the answer you want. And uh I was a smart kid. I was a smart kid, but I was also a smart were you pacifying her questioning you that, or did you actually feel gay at the at the moment? Yeah, I felt like this is what the truth is, and so now I'm gonna tell you. You've been asking me for so long, so now I'm gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

And you were 12? I was 12.

unknown 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

How did your mom take it? I mean, other than I mean, what was the reality of her reaction?

SPEAKER_04 11:56

Uh she broke down crying and she was like, Oh, um, because she has she's been around gay people before, you know, and she's very welcoming of the LGBT community, well, at least at the time she was. And she had a bunch of gay coworkers and gay friends, and she her reaction was like, Oh, I guess it's okay for my friends to be gay, but not my kid. Because she she was devastated. Like, she's like, Oh, you're gonna go to hell, like Jesus doesn't accept this and this and that. And my reaction was like, Okay, can I go to my room now? I don't want to be here for your breakdown. Can I go to my room? And I know my mom's gonna listen to this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We haven't we've never unpacked this conversation the way that it happened. Um, because she she I she came to me a few hours later that same night and she's like, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't mean what I said. I love you no matter what. Uh I just that wasn't the right way to react. And I think that's the woman I've come to know, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I think my mom does this where she'll have reactions immediately off of emotion, and yeah, people do it all the time. You know, I do it, I get angry, I say something, and I'm like, you know what? I didn't mean that. That was that was a reaction to the situation, not to how I feel about you. And I think her coming to repair that means a lot. She didn't want me to go to bed thinking that, oh, she my mom hates me, or my mom was never gonna see me.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

You're not in trouble. Right, right, right. Did nothing wrong.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

Yeah. And so that was reassuring. But then uh that same night, she's like, Oh, why don't you uh my dad came home from work. He usually would would come home late, 11, 11:30. She he came home late and she's like, Well, come out to the living room and tell your dad what you told me. So that was difficult because now that we're educated about these topics, you know, they've been around more and people talk about it more. You never want to force anybody out before they're ready. And this happens all the time when uh people get outed on the internet, celebrities or you know, people in the public eye. And that's kind of what it felt like is she was forcing me to expose myself to him. She could have had a conversation separately and uh waited until I was comfortable to come out to him. Um, but my dad actually reacted way different than I thought. My dad's a he's uh he's a pretty reserved, stern guy. You won't get many words out of him the first, second, third meeting. Um, you have no idea what he thinks about you. Most of my friends that I introduced to my dad, they're like, oh, he hates me. I'm like, oh, he just doesn't, he's not he doesn't open up anything. Yeah. And uh when I told him, he's like, okay, that's fine. He didn't, I was surprised that there was almost no reaction from him. You think he knew? I I'm gonna say yeah. I'm pretty sure he knew. It was it was pretty obvious. My my sister Crystal had come up to me um maybe like a month before I actually admitted it to my mom. She's like, you know, if you like girls, that's okay. I just want you to feel comfortable enough to like be who you are. And like, if you want to tell me, I won't tell anybody. But you know, you can tell me if you want to.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

I don't even have memories of me being 12 and being interested in boys or girls and that and that like I think I was too too busy like throwing rocks and chasing lizards. Yeah. I think that I mean I I developed early, but I couldn't imagine being 12 and just trying to navigate through those kind of thoughts and ideas and identities in myself. Um yeah, it's it's impressive that you're you're the person you are today and ha having to to navigate those things at such an early age is is is pretty overwhelming, it seems like.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

Yeah, I think also I was used to hanging out with older kids. So I my birthday's kind of late in the year, and so I started kindergarten when I was four, and then I ended up skipping second grade. So I was maybe two years behind most of the kids in my grade, but I was also used to spending my entire life with my two older sisters who are two and four years older than me. And so I didn't want to talk about the things that kids my age wanted to talk about or do the things that they wanted to do. Um, I didn't even want to do the schoolwork in second grade because I said it was too easy.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Seemed too challenging. Yeah, too juvenile and unchallenging. I get that in school. So, where where do we go after 12, 13 years old? Mom and dad know what's going on inside of Kiki, at least uh with your sexual preference and that you're into girls and and not not boys. What's next?

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Uh it was a little bit rocky in the beginning. Um, but then my parents kind of got the drift of this is who I want to be and this is how I want to dress. So when we would go back to school shopping, I would go shop in the boys section with my brother and my sisters would go on the other side. And that's kind of how it started, allowing my parents' way of allowing me to be who I am is letting me pick what clothes I want to wear. And that was that was a pretty good start. And uh I honestly felt like so much of myself once I started high school that way. I started high school out as I was 12. So the summer after I came out, I went to high school. I think I I came out two or three days before the last day of eighth grade. And uh so that was the perfect time for me because in high school nobody knew me. I went to a school that was kind of outside of I wasn't supposed to go to that one, it was a little bit outside. But it was a perfect time to recreate my identity and to introduce myself to people who will only know me this way as lesbian or whatever I was at the time. And that was great. I enjoyed high school so much. A lot of people hated high school. I loved it. I was dating women and most of them were older. Living your best life. Clea. And so it was nice to just be free and experience life that way and to find, you know, there's a lot of queer community in Palm Springs. So yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, yeah. To be able to find people who felt the same way I did or uh were interested in the same things that I was, and and it was just it was a a great first experience as to finally feeling like myself.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Was there something that made you feel included? Like, is there something, you know, now there's so much um Yeah, these topics are so I don't know, in today's the in the forefront of people's minds, right? Especially here in Palm Springs, and we have a lot of flags and and and well it's it's definitely saturated in the society and culture of where we live.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

So it's it feels so normal to me. I'm sure it's not.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

But but did you I mean, did you was there enough here that made you feel included? Absolutely. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

There was a nice little uh gay and lesbian community at Palm Springs High School. Um, so we would all kind of hang out, or we would all we were just you know the city's so small that you know, even with straight people, you end up dating, you're like, oh, I'm dating somebody who's my friend's ex or my cousin's brother's sister's ex, or you know, everybody knows everybody. And so in the gay community, it was very much the same. Like I you're gonna date somebody who dated one of your friends, and that's just that's just the way it goes.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Did you did you ever have did you ever go to a dance or anything with a boy or to a movie? Did you try just normal vanilla straight dating at all? Or you already were confident that that was not for you? No, it just didn't feel natural. So you you never had to navigate down that street at all?

SPEAKER_04 18:31

I would have like crushes and my friends, you know, when you're kids and you talk about, oh, who's your crush? Well, I don't know, it's different in circles of of girls. Yeah. But they always talk about, oh, who's your crush, or who do you like, or you know, who you're hoping talks to you today, or whatever. And so I would pick people just because you know I felt like I was supposed to, but I was never really interested in these guys. Like uh how I realized I was a lesbian, I was on a softball team. You know, this is you know, it's funny. That's a good tale already.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

We could just the only way it gets better is if it was field hockey.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

That's that's that's a tall tale. Mom, I want to play softball. Volleyball.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

There we go. Right, right. The way it usually happens. Do the things that lesbians do, right? Play software. But um Did you ever drive a Subaru route? We thought about it, but in Portland sports cars.

SPEAKER_06 19:16

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Um, but there was a a girl on the team who would who would sometimes come and sit on my lap. There was plenty of bench to sit on, but she would just come and sit on my lap. I don't know if she was anywhere on the spectrum of being a lesbian or what her sexuality was, but in that moment, for me, it felt normal. I was like, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm playing this masculine role for a woman, and this is what feels right to me. Like I want to, I feel like I play the role of protector and provider a lot of the times, and that's just feels like what I was born to be. And that feels natural and I'm happy in that role.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

I think that's why we get along so good because that's my role in the house and in my life too. I mean, I totally, totally get that feeling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Well, is there something that people misunderstand uh about being transgender? I this is where I get a little lost. And I mean, I've I've lived in London, New York, DC. I've lived it outside of Soho. I lived in Union Square, I lived in DuPont Circle, I've lived in West Hollywood. I was raised by a pretty much a single mom who went a travel agency. Like the gay community, gay men have been in my life. As a straight man, I moved to Palm Springs. Like I'm a I'm the minority, a straight single man in Palm Springs. Definitely my life. I moved there, like all my friends are gay. And sometimes I I like to have a conversation with them because it's the labeling that sometimes I get lost on. I'm not, I can't keep up with the new lines and the flag or what this means. So it's confusing for a lot of people. I'm told based on the Camelot movie theater slides before the movie that I'm supposed to ask. You know, like I don't this is where I get. So I mean, what would you I mean, like based on your journey, is there something, you know, that you know that you could impart on, you know, someone who maybe is dealing with what you dealt with and help them out?

SPEAKER_04 21:11

Um I feel like the biggest thing is there, like you said, there are so many ways to label people and to name people and things like that. And the biggest thing that I like to tell people, especially trans people, is you can't get upset if somebody misgenders you. If they repeatedly do it, then this is this is just my opinion. You can parallel it.

SPEAKER_06 21:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

But my opinion is that if okay, they misgender you once and you correct them. No, actually, I prefer these pronouns, or these are my pronouns, or this is the name that I I liked that I'm like to use. Okay. And if they repeatedly keep using your we call it our death name, um, dead name or birth name, the name that you were given at birth that you decided to change if you did decide to change.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Death name? Uh dead name.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

Yeah. So it's it's Exactly how it sounded.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah. Yeah. Dead to me. Yeah. Can we open up that a little bit? Just to help me understand more. Like what dies with your name? Like what what what part of you are you shedding at that point when you give up your birth name or your what your mom or dad named you? Like what what what's the process of that and what are you getting rid of?

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Uh I feel like for me, it was getting rid of trying to be something that society wants me to be. It's the person that I was being because I felt like I should be that person and do those things and act that way. And uh it might be different for everybody, but for me, it was more picking a new name is giving me the opportunity to grow into who I want to be. Yeah, because you know, I loved my childhood. There was nothing wrong with it. I loved being who I was as a kid. I, you know, everything happened in due time. And I kind of reinvented myself each time I felt like I was somebody else. So I lived my life from zero to twelve as a straight kid, from twelve to about maybe twenty-one. I came out in in 2020 as as trans, non-binary. And I have gone through several different pronouns, several different identities, labels, things like that. Um, but the one I identify with now is non-binary, trans mask, meaning that trans, I identify as something different than what I was born with. Mask, I resonate with the more masculine side of life. And then non-binary, I don't subscribe to one side or the other being female or male because I don't feel like I could. Because I lived so much of my life as a woman, it's not fair to me to kind of discredit that part. Um, and that's still so much alive in me now where I feel like I don't have very many male friends because I can't relate to the things that most men like to talk about. I don't like sports, I don't like cars, I don't like objectifying women, and I don't like to say that, you know, I'm just talking bringing popular topics. I don't go to the strip club, I don't like being in environments like that, like it's things like that. I most of my friends are women. And I work in a in a field where 90% of my coworkers are women. I work in a neonatal intensive care unit like my mom. And most of the people that take care of babies are women. I do have male coworkers, most of them being gay. So it's I just feel more comfortable around feminine energy. So that's why I say non-binary, because I still have the pers I had the perspective of a woman for so many years that I don't feel like I can't let that go because it's always in the back of my head, or in the way I do things, I still have a certain level of femininity or female perspective.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah. And to to tap into the imagery and we're all presented how we create ourselves, right? And me personally, and specifically to my own walk of life, I I hear this all the time. People say that I've just met, people that I've known, people that I don't know. They say that when I walk into a room, and this isn't not me tooting my own horn, it's me self-looking at myself through psychology. They say when you walk into a room, you have a presence that demands respect. You almost look scary or intimidating, or you know, people might want to put their purse under the table if I walk by their table. There's a presence, there's something that comes off of me. And I had to think about that for a bit because I think I created my image, right? Because my image is what I want the world to see of me subconsciously, not even thinking about that. You look at me, I have muscles, I'm bald headed, I have tattoos. It's a little intimidating to most people. But I think when I look at myself and what I've what I've experienced and went through in life, it's kind of my armor. So I want people to see me as like, okay, he's not so insecure, he's not weak, he's not uh, you know, feeling alone or this or that. It's a presence that's coming out of me for a reason. Like, how important do you think recreating your image has been for obviously the the person that I know and and and care about today and and respect? Tell me a little bit about the process of you creating your image from a young girl to the man that I see today.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

Um It's been tricky, to say the least. I mean, I've always known that I prefer to be more masculine. Um, and this kind of ties in with Errington's question from earlier how do you navigate the different identities of people? Um, but I am aware that I look like a straight male. I do.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

You do, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

If if I'm walking down the street, you have no idea that I was born one way or that I used to have a different name or that um I just used to be somebody different completely. And I feel like I that is a privilege to be able, we call it passing, right? Where you can navigate the world as a straight male who it becomes more of an issue, I want to say in other states. California is the best place, in my opinion, to be gay, lesbian, trans anywhere along the lesbian, uh sorry, LGBTQ spectrum. Um, because for several reasons. The there are several places you lived, Arrington, where you're saying that you're around plenty of gay people, West Hollywood, Model Springs, um, where they're they're several hundred miles apart, but they're still so they're saturated with so many people that are a part of these communities. And you can go to West Hollywood and you'll see, whether you want to see it or not, men walking around in speedos, G strings, um, you know, just expressing openly who they are and how they identify, holding hands with their boyfriend or husband or whatever, same thing with women holding hands with their their partners. And it's it's the best place to be who I am, in my opinion. I get scared thinking about moving to other states like Texas, where Texas is going to create the first detransition clinic because of some case that this hospital had with the Department of Justice, uh, where they have to provide services for the first five years of their operation for kids to detransition. Um, this is a a children's hospital in Texas because they it's just it's just so much harder to be along the spectrum in a place like that where or like red states where they think being trans is unnatural. It's it's against it's a demomination. It's it's they just don't agree with a lot of the ways that I live my life or the way that these people choose to live their lives who identify as something other than what they were born as. And California, for the second reason, um gender-affirming care is covered by health insurance in California. So I had top surgery in 2021. I didn't pay anything.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

And for the for the listeners that don't know what top surgery is, can you explain what top surgery is that you've undergone?

SPEAKER_04 28:49

It's just uh removing breast tissue and a masculinization of the chest. Um so if I'm in the gym with no shirt on, I also have tons of tattoos, um, short hair, facial hair, uh, deeper voice. So I would look like a cis man. Sorry, cis being you identify with what you the gender you were born as, cisgender. Um so I look like a cis man. You can't tell that I was born any other way.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

And have a more masculine top.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

But no, I I I I can definitely vouch for that. You know, like I've I've been in a pools and jacuzzi's and in the beach with you, Kiki, and you 100% look you definitely look like a man. Like yeah, there's there's no there's no questioning that. So that presentation that you've created, it's it's amazing because it represents how you feel inside and you've been able to figure out a process to to let that come out of you for the world to see and to to function, like you said. Just, you know, go go through the trials and tribulations of life, you know, and walk around in life and have your experiences. Like you're you're you're definitely one of the most confident, thoughtful people that uh are are are part of my life at this point. And you you you have that coming out of your presence, you know, and you're very confident when you walk in a room, also. So yeah, I don't there's no there's no doubt at face value you see what you want to be seen in the world. Yeah, you've you've accomplished it very well.

unknown 30:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

Yeah, absolutely. And going back to something you said, I mean, as a straight male who, you know, is drawn to women, I I you said something earlier, uh, because I'm the I can only handle so much of my sort of straight male friends with who watch Sports Center 24-7 eat chicken wings and have like a golf weekend somewhere. Like I I fucking play it. Yeah, like I can only deal with that. And I I enjoy the company of women more. And I think that's why I've always been comfortable around gay men, because it's more about like art and creativity and face it, partying, you know, a little bit. Um, you know, there's always much more vibrant and lively, and I've been drawn to that, even as a straight man. I mean, that's one of the reasons why I enjoy living here as a straight man, is there's a vibrancy that I just don't find in sort of more suburban, uh white, typically uh, you know, uh states, like you mentioned. Right. So regardless of what who you are, who you identify with, instinctually, there's going to be preferences. Right. Um, and I think it's important to listen to those sort of things. Um I always joke that part of my reason I pay Aaron is is that we get our our kind of bro time. It's bro therapy. Yeah, yeah, like we're in the gym, definitely. Like there's a group of us that we all like enjoy each other's company for an hour in the morning before we go back into the the world here in the desert.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

I I there's something in my brain since since Kiki said it, the cop surgery. Um I don't want to I wanna m move on from this, obviously, but just to circle back a little bit. How old were you when you decided that was the right move for you? I think I was like 22, 21. So you were already out of the house, yeah. You're living life? Since I was 16. I moved out and I didn't go back. And when you decided to go ahead and do that, did you was there a process? Did you like have to consult with your mom or your dad or your sisters or the doctor? Like, what was the process of of having that a thought and turning it into an action? Like, how did that work for you?

SPEAKER_04 32:38

So this took a lot of research, actually. And uh this was actually during COVID. So I had plenty of time to sit at home and do research. Uh and this is actually where I figured out my Your surgery was during COVID? It was kind of right afterwards. Gotcha. Um it was 2021. So we're kind of moving out of COVID, but it's still there. We still believe it's a thing. Um still a lot still a lot of cases uh around of COVID at the time. But 2020 was when everybody had the time to sit at home alone with their thoughts and kind of figure out who you want to be and what you're doing with your life, and are you actually who you want to be? Are you doing what you're you set out to do in your life?

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Right. A lot of self-reflection time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

No matter you know how you identify where you were in the world, that's you had plenty of time to do that, I imagine. And that's where I figured out that I'm sitting at home all the time, and so without the influence of the society and public, how do I feel internally? How do I want to portray myself naturally in my environment? Interesting. Yeah. And so I feel like removing the pressure of society to be a certain way allowed me to fully navigate the depths of my identity and how I actually felt and who I actually wanted to be. The the issue of of who I was attracted to um was solved really early. As soon as I was 12 years old, I like women's ever since. Yeah, you knew. The the difficult part was figuring out who I want to be and how I want to identify and how I want to how am I gonna change my body from the way it is now to the way I want it to be.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

And was that a scary process to even have those kind of thoughts? Were you questioning yourself or no?

SPEAKER_04 34:14

I I was with uh my my girlfriend at the time was very supportive, very educated about um queer topics and uh queer experience, queer black experience specifically. And so I feel like she honestly played a big part in catapulting my transformation and being supportive and educating me on the things that I had questions about, or telling me where I can find this information, or putting me on to different people on YouTube who are talking about their experience because being trans is not new. Right. So there were plenty of people on YouTube, on uh I mean YouTube was probably the biggest thing at the time, uh, who were talking about their experiences of how they did it in different states and things like that and what their body looked like before. This is me, um, like 10 days on testosterone, a month on testosterone. And I actually used to make YouTube videos when I first started my transformation of um uh so I I changed my identity in I think it was February of 2020. I got started on testosterone hormone hormone replacement therapy by August of 2020. And as soon as I started that, it felt good. It felt normal. It felt like I didn't I didn't have regrets. And you know, hormone replacement therapy, you can stop at any time and your body will revert to well.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

I am a fan of testosterone. It does feel great. It feels better than normal for me for myself as well.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

The reassuring part was that that's reversible. If I want to stop taking testosterone, my body will go back to what it was before.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

So when you s when you started taking testosterone, how like when a when a a man takes testosterone for it to enhance whatever he's taking testosterone for, it feels amazing immediately. How how long after you took your first shot or two did you actually start feeling the testosterone take take root into your body and into your your DNA and change things?

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Uh it took like a month and a half to two months. Um and then it's kind of like a boy going through puberty for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

And this is definitely pre-top surgery, the testosterone.

SPEAKER_04 36:03

Yeah. I'm just starting at the beginning to kind of navigate the timeline of the city. Perfect. Um, but yeah, I was on testosterone for a few months, and then you go through puberty, the voice changes, all that stuff. But the good thing about when I started my transition was I had done the same thing where I moved from one city to another one and I got a new job. And this was the perfect opportunity to again recreate myself so people only know me this way.

SPEAKER_06 36:27

Fresh start.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

Exactly. Yeah. And that that for me, that's the best way to do any transition is to put yourself in a new environment where you don't have the pressures to be who you used to be. You can just be who you are now, yeah, or who you want to be. And that that was great for me. But moving into testosterone, it more I had body dysmorphia growing up a lot. Um, a lot of struggles with my weight as a kid and a lot of childhood trauma and that part, but it's not really related to my gender identity, so we don't have to get into it.

SPEAKER_06 36:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

But um, it redistributes your body fat. So instead of all the fat going to my hips and my thighs, it would go to my belly, which is fine. Not a problem. But my shape in general was more masculine. And to me, I was happier that way.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

It was changing within the first year.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Yeah, exactly. And it was pretty quick. My I used to hate listening to recordings of my my own voice uh when I before testosterone, after testosterone, I don't mind it. I could listen to recordings and videos all the time. And I I didn't know if that's how people normally felt. Like, okay, for you guys, would you cringe listening to a recording of yourself when you were younger?

SPEAKER_03 37:27

I just thought everyone had southern accents. And that move from North Carolina to Massachusetts. That would make me cringe. I learned I learned how to fight immediately, fight and run, you know, talking like Liz up there in Massachusetts, boom, you know, fissed out of nowhere. So I think that was it. But uh no, I mean, uh no, I just at this point I I always I always thought it was weird.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

I I've I've got to do a few cool things in life. I've been on some movies and and some music and some songs and stuff and different recordings and spoken in public public places and and always the playback, I'd be like, man, that's is that what I sound like? Ugh, god, that's horrible. Yeah, yeah. And then we started the podcast. Like Arrington's like, we're gonna use this kind of microphone, they're beautiful, these kind of headphones. And the first time I put the headphones on and spoke through the mic, I was like, ooh, I love my voice, man. That's awesome. Like it sounded really good. I like how it sounds on the podcast. So but um yeah, earlier on, I definitely had had issues hearing my own voice being recorded and stuff played back. It's kind of trippy.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Yeah, you know, hang on, I there's something I um I'm curious to know about what you're discussing. Knowing what you know now, um, at your age, do you feel, let's say you become a lawmaker, do you feel there's a certain age that you would say, this is, I think you should be this old before taking uh some sort of steps like top surgery, you know, where you're changing something or hormone reporting hormone. I mean, do you think, I mean, we have, you know, an age uh 18 and 21 here in the United States seem to be the two ages where you can vote uh go to war, uh drink beer. Yes. Exactly. Do you feel because I feel like that's kind of a hot topic at the moment, you know, at what age are you allowed to say, this is who I am, and here are the changes that I'm gonna make? Is there what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_04 39:28

I think kids are really smart and kids know themselves, and if they're given the freedom and the space to express themselves in the ways they want to, they'll show you a lot more than you think. Uh there are little boys who will want to wear dresses or want to do makeup, and that's not to say that's who they're gonna be when they grow up, but if you give them the freedom to express themselves in that way when they want to, then they're more likely to be more in touch with their true identity once they get older, in my opinion. Um, and I think for kids who are under 18, they have this thing uh like um hormone blockers. Well, it will kind of delay puberty for male and for females. Um, it'll delay puberty so they can kind of live life in their own body before major changes start happening. You can always stop um the hormone blockers and then puberty will take its natural course. Um but I think education is the biggest thing. Like inform these kids about what the options are, what what is reversible, what's not reversible, what things look like before and after the realities of things. Um top surgery sounds great, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong. So that's the main um avenue that required a lot of research on my end is what surgeon do I want, what surgeons are available to me, what is the recovery process like? Uh, what are my options based on my body fat percentage, my build, um, things like that, and then my insurance plan, uh, what will that cover? Which surgeon am I allowed to pick? Um, luckily, my mom had great insurance, and so I could pick pretty much anybody I wanted. And the only thing that they required for me was uh two letters from therapists or a doctor or my primary care doctor saying that I have gender dysphoria and uh that top surgery will help alleviate that. And I had to do, I actually had to do therapy for three months before they would write me that letter. And so we would just talk about how I felt my gender identity, how I I felt when I was younger, things like that. Would I want to maybe they always ask about reproduction? Like, do you want to have kids later on? Because you can do egg preservation before you start testosterone therapy, which I opted not to do. Um, and then I always I just felt like I never had the desire to carry my own children. And so that was an easy, easy okay. I don't care about the egg.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Easy no.

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Yeah, yeah. Just give me the shot. I don't care about the egg, I don't care about the reproductive, whatever. Uh, even if I do have kids, I'm not the one to carry it. I date women. If my partner wants a kid, they will likely be able to carry it. Um, but navigating through top surgery was really easy. My mom and my family were super supportive. Um, my mom actually came with me to San Francisco to get the surgery done and took care of me for the the week after post-op. And my sister was there as well, and they were both very supportive. Um, it couldn't have been an easier experience.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

So, what age do you think you feel that if you had to um put an age on making that decision, along with all the the process that, you know, the checks and balances, I guess, of of making that decision. And I'm happy to hear that there are those systems in place. So, you know, people aren't making decisions based on something other than truth. Yeah. There's internal truth.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

Right. But there's you know, like you said, there's a lot of um just making sure that you know, before you have any operation, they want to make sure you're aware of the risks, aware of why you're having it, and aware of just kind of in general what the surgery is gonna be and what is it's gonna entail. Um, but I want to say I feel like at six sixteen, I mean, we could keep it at 18 since that's the typical you know, across the board. Adult 10-year-olds can decide to smoke or not, then okay, let them make decisions about their own body. Because in turn, smoking is make a decision about your body. Sure. Um, so I think 18 is fine. But as far as the um like hormone blockers for when they're to block delay puberty, I think as long as they have the support of their parents, then sure, all parties are educated, let them do it because it is something that's reversible. Even top surgery is reversible. I could have breast implants and become a woman again if I wanted to. It's it's it's completely possible in our day and age.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Got it. Um, circle back a little bit. How how far was it between the first shot of testosterone and the top surgery? What was that that what's that timeline in between that?

SPEAKER_04 43:34

I started testosterone August 2020 and I had top surgery April 2021, but it was scheduled by October of 2020. So it was like two months. I immediately knew that I did not want to have a woman's chest. I knew most of my life, honestly, I hated it. I was always so uncomfortable with having that part of my body. I never I never owned a real bra. I would only wear sports bras or things that would kind of compress it to my chest. Yes, I know. But also like a good Trial way to trial it out if you would enjoy top surgery is there's things called binders where they kind of just flatten out your chest to give you more masculine chest. If you like the way that looks, you will likely be okay with top surgery.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Other than the displacement of your of like your fatty tissues from the from the male hormones um being introduced to the body and deepening of the voice, what's some of the other characteristics did you experience before the surgery that knew you were shaping and forming the right presence of who of how you felt internally? What were some of the other effects that you got from the hormone therapy?

SPEAKER_04 44:36

I will give you a positive and a negative because not everything was positive about testosterone, and it's still not positive. That is life. I will say I've always enjoyed the gym and I've always wanted to look a certain way. So the fact that I don't want to say it's easier for me to put on muscle, but you know, the way a man's body works is different than the way a woman's body works in terms of muscle mass. And that was one of my favorite things of like being able to actually build a chest and build shoulders and build girth and width and you know, just look I don't want to say massive because I still I could still grow plenty. You definitely fit, you're definitely fit, you definitely look like you go to the gym quite a bit, right? You do have muscle. Thank you. But yeah, that that was one of the other pluses is I've been working out for so long and I can finally build the body that I want. Like my body will allow me to look the way that I want to if I put in the work.

SPEAKER_06 45:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:23

That was the other positive. I did it. Reaffirmative surgery. Like these these breasts are just in the way of seeing my my hard work mass masculine chest. Like they don't fit on the sculpture. Right. They're just they're they're blocking what my hard work here. So um, but the negative thing that I still experience is the ability to express emotion, which was really difficult. I felt like as soon as I used to be very um very open to talking about my feelings, at least with my partner at the time. And after I started testosterone, it was really hard to access deeper emotions for me.

SPEAKER_06 45:56

I could just cry for months, even if I wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

I've never heard that. Yeah. That's that's very, very interesting. And it's still that way?

SPEAKER_04 46:04

It's still that way. It's I haven't I can't even tell you the last time I cried. I can feel sadness, but not enough to make me cry.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Did you feel that before like pre-surgery? Like, did you feel that disconnection from your emotions as soon as you started taking testosterone, or was it later on in life?

SPEAKER_04 46:19

It was maybe three or four months in. Like it was almost immediate as soon as all the other like effects came in, that one came in with it.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Do you have to supplement like your your estrogen or your progesterone to to balance your body at all, or you just supplement testosterone solely?

SPEAKER_04 46:34

Right now I just do testosterone. Um I I could do estrogen, but I don't feel like I need to. Um it's more for like uh women. Uh no, but like I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

That was a joke, people.

SPEAKER_04 46:48

Because I used to still I had another surgery, I had a hysterectomy. So before the hysterectomy, it would cause issues with those parts because I didn't have enough enough estrogen. So that was the issue of why I would I would supplement estrogen um for the other reproductive parts that I still had. But I had that surgery uh November of 2025. I had a hysterectomy. Not total, I still have one ovary. So technically, if I wanted to retrieve my eggs, I still could.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

You still could.

SPEAKER_04 47:15

I still could. I know that I would never want to carry, but in case I ever want to have my own biological child, it's still an option.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

So obviously they kept one intentionally.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

Yes, but also because if ever in the sense that I don't have access to testosterone, I need something in my body that will make hormones, which will be ovary.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Yeah, keep you balanced.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

So it's kind of like a a fail-safe.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Sure.

unknown 47:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

That's smart.

unknown 47:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Good choice. I you know, I it it's so I'm so impressed with how you've navigated all of this because, you know, it's sometimes it's just human nature to sit here and think about myself. And I think, you know, I didn't have any confusion. And I knew very early on, probably got into a little bit of trouble, uh, that I liked, you know, I was a heterosexual man and that I liked women. Um, Christy Fields, the monkey bars fourth grade. I was like Christy. Yeah, became very aware to me. So I, you know, I think I didn't have all this like how easy it's it's just been easy, I guess, is what I'm realizing and hearing you talk today and all the things that you've had to do and education and the fears and the anxieties and the triumphs and all of that about becoming who you want to become, you know. I mean, it's impressive. And I think for from speaking for myself, I mean, part of this is even though I've lived in in and around gay communities and had gay roommates, and you know, you think you have this idea of what something is, and then there's always room to learn. And I think ultimately that's what we were my thinking for myself, today's episode was about is because everyone has such a sharp reaction now to this conversation and gender, and I'm this, and someone says it wrong, and then everyone's upset, and it's just exhausting to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

It's a conversation that we're really fortunate to be able to have live today, like this close to home, right? Because most people have opinions about all these things that we're talking about, but have no reference point other than what they see online or what their neighbor said or what the person at the gym said or uh another person's idea about it. So to hear straight from Kiki is is um it's fan, it's f fascinating. It's absolutely amazing. And there's I know you don't speak for the whole community, but it's just your experience is extremely valuable to have this conversation with. And what I was saying the other day was like this platform that we're creating on a podcast, you know, it's it's really cool. Um it captures conversations and it captures moments and it captures things that once we click publish on that computer after editing, it goes out into the world and becomes part of the world forever, right? So if there's more conversations that go out into the world forever where people can tap into these stories and these experiences, I think it's very, very beneficial for humanity in general. Like today the world's falling apart, and we all make our own opinions and you know, damn everybody else if they don't believe what I believe, because I'm right and you're wrong, and then it's not that way, people. So we're gonna have a few conversations coming up on the podcast soon, but it's just an honor to have you as as the first one outside of my own personal stories. So again, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Um now let's get into go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, you know, it's interesting because I the older I get, you you said something about testosterone, and I don't know if this applies because once I started taking it, uh just because I'm a man of a certain age, and I told Aaron, I said, I went and laid down, woke up, and I'll when I woke up, I looked around and I thought of everything I needed to do, and I wasn't down about it. I wasn't second guessing myself, I wasn't overanalyzing, I wasn't emotional. I just sort of handled what I needed to handle that day. So based on what you just said, I'm using that lack of emotion, because I used, you know, he's a little sensitive, I guess, uh, in in my like is a good thing, you know. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm not thinking what would be stereotypical like a woman, right? I mean, you know, the the the feminine side, I think maybe I'm wrong about that, but you know, you just no one's ever walked a mile in your shoes. And um, we're also quick to sort of judge. And the other day I was at the movies and somebody was acting foolish in the movie, and I started to get in a little aggro, and then I was like, you know what, I don't know what that person's deal is. And I walked out of the movie theater, and that person who was talking on their phone, making noises throughout the movie, held the door for me. And I had this idea that moving forward, I don't care what you're identify as or what your gender, your sexuality, I'm going to base an opinion, my opinion on people's uh manners. How mannerly are they? How open are they to hearing your story or my story or Aaron's story or Liz's story, you know, your mom. Uh, I think that's fascinating that the knee-jerk reaction was religion when you first came out. Yeah. That seems to be kind of a default for a lot of people's issues.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

That someone's that's I mean, that's that's wired into our program.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

That's what I mean, you know. And I believed in it too until Aaron started putting all this sun business in my head, the sun rising. That's another episode. You know, um uh but uh I think until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes, maybe we should all just be a little bit more tolerant. And if someone's you know on a trip, let them have their moment and just don't become the monster to defeat the monster. Yeah. You never know what someone's going through. Just all be a little bit more tolerant and a little bit more mannerly.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

Cause like you're saying, people have all these opinions about trans people and gay people, and I guarantee you everybody knows a trans person. You just may not know they are trans because either they don't feel comfortable enough to come out and expose it to you, or you know, like me, I'm just I pass so well as what you want me to be that you wouldn't second guess about who I actually am.

SPEAKER_06 53:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:23

And I think, you know, I'm I'm glad to be able to have this conversation and to be able I feel very fortunate to be able to have both experiences of living as a woman and as someone who was portrayed as a man. I don't identify as a man, um, but I know how I present, so I don't get mad at anybody who calls me a man or he, him, or whatever else. Um, but the one thing I will say is the amount of respect that men get versus women. I I used to work at In N Out, and um I used to work in the drive-thru and handing out food, you know, the the last person you see before you leave the drive-thru. And I worked at one store before my transition and a different store after. And the way that customers would talk to me when my voice sounded this way versus when I was a woman, night and day. So much more respect when I come off as a man, which is ridiculous. I'm doing the exact same job, saying the exact same words, but I get a completely different treatment from these people because I look like a man to you.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Why is that? I mean, I think that's that's hardwired in DNA and and in the nature in general. Like Kiki said, and like I said in the beginning of the podcast, men are protectors. They're they represent, you know, that masculinity represents something that femininity does not. And masculinity commands respect. I mean, it's that's the law of the land, you know. You you you put two silver back gorillas in the same same cage, they're gonna they're gonna figure out which one's the one standing up at the end of the day, you know, and the other one's gonna bow down and respect. And I think that's kind of a watered down version of what Kiki's trying to explain, you know, from female to male, anyways. It's just uh But have we evolved from that?

SPEAKER_03 55:07

I don't think so. I think as a human race, should we be evolving from that? I mean, when you talk about toxin, toxic masculinity and all this, you know, um I want to say it may be just because of ignorance.

SPEAKER_04 55:20

And this is my own personal opinion. But people who are educated and who know about the different ins and outs of several different parts of life. And you know, you can you can come up to Aaron and talk about anything. Aaron knows everything about a l a little bit of everything about every topic, right? And it's I feel like you're more open to hearing other people's side.

SPEAKER_06 55:38

I agree.

SPEAKER_04 55:39

Exactly if you're educated about those things or have an open mind to learn new things, versus if you're closed off and you think people can only be one way, society's supposed to be this way, women have this role, men have this role, and that's it. That's where it causes problems. Because you can't expect everybody to fit your blueprint of what you want them to be. And that's that's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

I mean it is interesting. It's it's very interesting. And I'm more interested to to know too, like you said you had full support of your siblings, your family, um as you were coming out as a lesbian at a young age and you know, weren't wanting to wear dad's and brothers' clothes and not not the Sunday dress and and the bows and the hair kind of kind of vibe and image.

unknown 56:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

That's obviously a big contrast from hey family, I'm having a surgery to r to remove my my breast. Was there any pushback at all from any of your your family or relatives at that point that you were going to that level next, or was it always very supportive?

SPEAKER_04 56:42

Um I feel like everybody was very supportive, at least in my immediate family. Yeah, that's amazing. Your family's amazing. I'm very fortunate. I've heard several stories of people who are like, I don't talk to my mom and my dad anymore because they don't agree with the way I live my life, and I don't have a relationship with most of my family because of whatever reason. And I am aware of how fortunate I am and how lucky I am to have a family that will support me in anything. That's just allows me to be who I am and to feel more comfortable in the world. And I feel like I I go through all these things and I am this way and I identify this way, and I've done all these things to my own body. But I feel like I try to navigate the world in a way that I'm making a positive impact. No matter what I look like or who I am, I can I have tattoos everywhere, and I can bench 250 pounds, but I work with the smallest population ever. I work with neonatal babies, 23, 24-week-old babies that you know are the most delicate patients that you could take care of, and that's what I do, and I love doing it. I genuinely love going to work, taking care of these kids, educating these parents, doing what I do. And I feel like looking at me, you wouldn't expect me to do that job. You wouldn't expect me to be that person.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Yeah, face value. That's a that's a different different experience at face value.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

For sure. I mean, is that the moral here, the the lesson?

SPEAKER_01 58:02

I mean, I can't don't judge a book by its cover. Yeah, you know, it's it's kind of cliche to say that, but it's uh unfortunately humans we're all prejudiced. Yeah. And being prejudiced doesn't mean that you have a sheet over your head and you're chasing people across the cornfield. You know, like we all have prejudices, and it's a very natural instinct that helps us navigate and experience and and know what's right and what's wrong or what's harmful to us. We have to judge everything that happens in front of us. It's it's survival of the fittest. We're only here because we've we've preserved ourselves by by judging the book by its cover, but also on the on another end of humanity, it's destroying humanity. So the hard part to navigate today in society, I think, is trying to figure out that healthy balance between the two. We all have our prejudgments and we all have our our ways that we think are just and and solid until it's broken down. And and I think conversations like this is gonna help break it down a little bit to where people are not so judgmental. And like I said, Kiki's a part of my family. You're a part of my family, love you to death. And we've never had this conversation. We've gotten to know each other pretty good, um, somewhat over the few years, couple years that I've been around, and and and we've we've shared family together. But conversations like this are very significant. It's just uh I think families in general, people in general, are losing conversation. You know, there's not communication anymore. We tap into social media and we get that instant gratification from this fake, this fake reality, and we and we we base ourselves on that. And I think it's really, really important, and I think it's very significant that we need to kind of put those things down, look at each other in the eyes, and have honest conversations about what's going on, right? And I think that's an amazing thing that's lost. And um yeah, conversations like this are gonna do it's gonna go far.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

Speaking of conversation, uh is there anything that you haven't told your mother or father about your journey? Anything that you haven't shared with them that maybe might be the right time.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:26

You know, you know what's funny is we're having this conversation, but I haven't had this conversation with most of my family members. Because of them being so accepting, they don't ask these kinds of questions. If you're happy this way, okay, I support you. That's mostly how it is, fortunately. Um but as far as my mom and dad, you know, they they raised me in a way, and this this is why I felt once I came out, it wouldn't matter what other people thought, because they raised me in a way where it's a good thing and a bad thing that I don't need anybody. I can support myself financially, I can find my own friends for emotional support, I can live on my own, I can accomplish any goal that I've set my mind to if I work hard enough. And it's good and bad. Good for independence, bad for relationships. But that has made it easier to feel like I can come out and be who I am without the fear of the things that I would lose because I will always be okay. Whether I will be happy about it or not, I will always be okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

That's that's a powerful thing to experience and understand about yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

I feel like that's a part of a parent's job, though, is to kind of go, here you go. Like, here are the tools, you might not like it, but this is what you're gonna need to navigate the chaos, you know, get out into the world. Um uh, you know, some tough love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

I think parents going along the lines of anything that I would say to my parents that I haven't said to them yet, um, I think parents can beat themselves up for a lot of things all the time, of all the things they did wrong, all the things they could have done better. And I think my parents did a great job. They made mistakes like anybody would. I do have childhood trauma. We all have childhood trauma. Yeah, it's unavoidable. You didn't know better at the time. I have childhood trauma because of something that you did, but I don't blame you for it, and I don't hold you against it. I don't hold it against you. I and it's funny because I have a a younger sibling still, where a couple years ago I would tell my mom things that you know she did to us when we were younger that kind of had a negative impact on me or us. And she would take it as like, well, I did the best I can, and I'm sorry, I'm a terrible mother. And I said, That's not why I'm saying it to you. I'm saying it to you because you still have my little sister at home, and you can avoid creating these things for her. I'm giving you input to help you be a better mom for her. And like I I love my parents, they've both been great. My dad, my mom, they've always supported me no matter how old I am. My mom still pays my phone bill, my dad paid my car insurance for the longest time. I'm 28.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

You know, I could Yeah, it sounds I might I might transition twice. Well, I do. Oh, your mom loves you like your mother. Yeah. Ask your mom is she adopting? That sounds like a pretty good no. Um, well, that's good. I think that's important to hear. It's interesting because uh after we started the podcast, your mom, you know, kind of blurted out my name. She was in the gym and I didn't know where this is. She was gonna hug me or tackle me. You know, like what's gonna happen? She gave me a big hug and I was like, it dawned on me. I was like, oh, you she's getting to know you, things about you through the podcast. Absolutely. I was a very, very private individual.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

Speaking to your family. Like I said, you know, this once we push publish and and put it on on the internet, it goes out there forever. And a lot of my early life was very private. I I kept everything into myself. And then uh I I did that as I was going through my experiences to create this image and this presence that walks in the room like we were we were talking about, right? So I was I was navigating my own chaos and and obstacles in life, trying to figure out who I am and what I wanted to represent and what I wanted to be seen at. And yeah, it's it's it's it's a wild ride. But yeah, my mom she taps in and she she gets to learn a whole different level of of of stories and experiences about her son that she's never been keyed into. And like this conversation with you, too. Like, I know your mom listens to the podcast, she's definitely gonna hear it. I'm I'm pretty sure most of your siblings do. I'm guessing your dad doesn't. Um Yeah, so you know, it's it's it's a way to bring communication back, and I think that's so valuable just to support what we were talking about just a couple couple sentences back, you know, like it's it's extremely important to communicate and express yourself, be heard, listen, love, be loved, give love, reciprocate. Like there's a whole back and forth thing that doesn't happen between people anymore because of technology and social media and this expedited, you're born, you rush through and you die. And you know, we we need to slow down a little bit and kind of get humanity back, and this is definitely one one way to do it. On that note, like Kiki today, the presence in the room that you've created, the the everything about you, your isms, the image, the what you represent, what you stand for, what you love, what you're passionate about. Is there any is there any part of you that maybe you got rid of when you got rid of your your birth name that you would express something to at this point? Do you have do you have it's kind of cliche, but do you have anything that your adult presence would say to your younger self?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:53

I don't know. I don't really live life with like regrets or like should have, could have, would have done things. Um We just said everything's gonna be fine. Everything will always be okay. Whether you know, it's it's also another cliche is that one door closes so another one will open, right? 100% does though. And and it's funny. I just told my brother this the other day is that the universe will remove something from your life to make room for something better. 100%. And that's kind of what happened with the old me. I was removed from or who I used to be was removed so that I could be who I am now. And I I am so happy with who I am. I'm so happy with what I do and what I stand for and the way I feel about people. And I I am so open about my journey and my transition. And you can ask me anything, you know, aside from you know, just asking too much. Um okay, when you ask a trans person about their genitals, you've done too much. Uh it's not for education at that point, it's just your curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

Yeah, it's not necessarily.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

I don't want to know conversation about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

I don't want to talk about yours either. I'm straight.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:01

You know, there's no situation where we should be talking about the so I mean other than that, like if you want to know about my journey, my transition, how I got from point A to point B, I will 100% be a resource for you. I changed my name legally and paid nothing for it because I was able to get a fee waiver from the court. If you can't afford to pay for it, because I think it's like $450 or something like that to file for a name change. Um, but if you're doing it for gender affirming reasons, you can get a fee waiver. Most people don't know that. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:31

Why not? You can have your procedures covered by surgery. My bill for my hysterectomy was $73,000. But because I have insurance in California and gender affirming care is covered, I didn't pay any, I think maybe a $20 copay. Copay. But I'm so that's insane. That $70,000 plus maybe the $40,000 top surgery. My body's very expensive now. Yeah. And then the tattoos and all the testosterone.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

Jewelry. I know, I know people they it's kind of funny, just on a on a different topic. They look at your my tattoos and people that are heavily tattooed, and they're they like fear like, oh, this guy's gonna snatch my purse. And it's just like, woman, my tattoos cost more than that Fendi or Gucci bag. I have more art on my body than than what's worth in your wallet. Knock it off.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:22

There is something I do want to ask. I was at um um Tropicali, which is the abbey, uh call it of Palm Springs. Anyone from LA knows what I'm talking about. Thanks for the reference. Yeah, no, you know exactly what that is. And I was drinking my martini and I overheard these conversations these two guys were having. I think they were husbands. And there was a line for the men's room, and there was no one in the line for the women's room. So the conversation at the bar turned to what is the purpose of a men's room and a women's room? What is the what is the reason? And I'm not talking about the you know, the one you go in, you lock it, you have your own space. Is it privacy? Is it hygiene? Does that whole thing need to be restructured now? What is the purpose of a men's room and a women's room at the airport, at a restaurant, in any given public space, Disney?

unknown 1:09:17

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:18

I think it's more for comfort. Many, and this is something I noticed from my transition as well, is that there are plenty of women who feel uncomfortable being alone in a room with a man that they don't know. And that's society is crazy for that because of the things that happen and the things that some men do, you know, they give they give other men a bad look. But I feel like that's the main reason. Also, I used to use women's rooms, and now I use men's restrooms, and it's disgusting. I hate it. I would take the women's restroom of the state.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

No doubt about it. Worst thing that ever happened is the the gender uh bathrooms. I'm like, men are horrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Yeah, piss everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:53

Disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

But it would be awkward to see you walk into a woman's restroom and even before my transition. That wouldn't make sense to me. Yeah, it wouldn't make sense to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:01

I'm like, just go to the bathroom and get out, lady. Nobody's asking. I'm not coming up to you, I'm not looking at you, I'm not, you know, bothering you. Why do you have to come at me and make me uncomfortable now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

But you and I, we've traveled places, we've been to Disneyland and public places, and you always use a men's room, and it's never crossed my mind like that question's never crossed my mind in your your situation at all. It just it it looks very natural, seems very natural. Right. It just I used to fear going into a medical.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:29

They're gonna know. They're gonna know that I'm not I don't belong in here. Yeah, they're gonna know.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

Is he peeing sitting down with the windows?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:37

There's plenty open. There's plenty of them open. Well, I mean, you know, it does, I think we're gonna have to make some adjustments, right, in today's world. Do people feel comfortable? I you know, it having lived in LA for 22 years, you belong to an equinox, you go into the men's room. I mean, you know, it's just naked guys everywhere. Not all of them are straight. And it's just something you get used to. I mean, I don't um, but I I wonder with all the different identities and you know how people prefer to be seen. It was just a a a conversation that was brought up, and I was like, you know, that got me thinking, what is the purpose?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:15

I think for in my opinion, it would be safety. Many women just don't feel safe. Safe places like that. I get it. But I love a gender neutral restroom. You have a male's room. I've seen it that some airports still have a men's, women's, and a gender neutral. So if you feel comfortable using the gender neutral, go ahead. Um, I'm also very fortunate to live in LA where they have the uh largest LGBT center on the West Coast, the LA LGBT center. And all their restrooms are gender neutral. They have urinals and stalls in every restroom. And you can go wherever you feel comfortable. And I think that is so I mean, for for cisgender heterosexual people, it may not mean much to you, but for somebody like me, that is so liberating that I can walk in here and not worry, am I man enough to be in here? Am I woman enough to be in here? Legally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

No, no, in those neutral restrooms, is there multiple people in the restroom at the same time?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:03

Yeah. And they all they all look they all look different. Like you could some you can identify as male, female, some are a little more ambiguous.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:09

So it's not like a one stall for all.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:11

No, no, there's like several, there's several urinals or several stalls.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

I'm totally ignorant and naive to that. That's that's that's cool. That's kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:19

Well, the the the moral of that story is everyone has to behave themselves, above all men. That's it. Because you're not the time to grow up. Yeah, I feel horrible when you're gonna be able to do it. Well, it's lucky that you were able to do all of this, this your journey here in a place like California that offers so much uh uh support and systems because you know I don't know much about it, but you mentioned Texas, and perhaps that's gonna be a bit more of a challenge for someone whose journey is different than what's uh uh appears to be normal, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:02

But it yeah. The thing that sucks is it's not safe everywhere for people like me. So on my passport, I identify as non-binary, so on my California driver's license, I have the X, but on my passport I put mail. Because if I put non-binary going to some countries, that's not a good look.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Have you ever been in an uncomfortable situation um as an adult since you've represented yourself and and and restructured the image of your your yourself and your your your body and your person, your persona? Has have you had any negative interactions in public like that?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:39

Has have people ever threatened you or raised a fist to you or screamed at you or no, not particularly, not like one-on-one, but there have been uh I remember starting my new job. Um, we did like a little bio on the walls, like you know, all the new employees get get to introduce themselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

Hi, my name's Kiki. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:57

A little intro. I like to do this for fun, blah blah blah, whatever. And I remember one of the things that would get on my nerves is there was uh this one nurse that worked there who she would go around and ask people was Kiki a border girl. Is Kiki a boy girl? Oh yeah. She would ask everybody else except for me. And it would like come around to me and I'm like, I see her all the time. If you have a question, you can come up and ask me, and I'll tell you it's none of your business. But yeah, so shut the fuck up and move on. We all have that neighbor, right? You know, just a pain in the ass. That one is not it's it's not for any reasonable purpose. It's just because you're nosy or you you can't your brain can't wrap itself around.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:34

Yeah, there's no substance behind the the action of the questions that people like that ask.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:38

Those are really the only circumstances that I've encountered. Nobody's been disrespectful to me up front or cause me any problems up front. It's normally people just kind of asking questions around, but also I publicly show myself online. So it's like if you are following me on any of my pages, you'll kind of recognize pretty quickly that I am who I am.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:56

So I don't hide it. It's just don't go around asking everybody else except for me. Yeah. If you have questions, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Yeah.

unknown 1:15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:03

And that's another thing I totally admire about you is your just your confidence and your your openness. And I mean, we need so much more of that today. And uh if more people were confident, open, and like I said, bring back the conversations, man, and just talk through our differences and figure out what we can learn from each other, it's very healing to the world. So I'm I'm I'm looking forward to this this podcast to to get released, you know, because there's lots of people that I've never met that are tapping into cruise control podcasts now. And uh this conversation and the next few, it's it's gonna reach people in a way that I don't even understand how it's gonna reach them. And I feel fortunate to to be a part of it and to to kind of create this platform with Arrington and and have discussions with people like yourself and and future conversations that are coming up. And um I just want to say thank you for being part of my family. And uh I'm truly honored and really appreciate you being a part of my life. So um keep doing what you're doing, please. And you've you've gone from point A to point B. What's point C look like for you?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:18

I just want to say I'm also grateful that you have joined our family and that you know you've been as accepting and welcoming as you are, and my mother wouldn't have chosen you if you weren't. So um, and you know, just bringing your family into ours, and so now we have extra bonus siblings and nieces and nephews, and you know, the more the merrier in our family. Absolutely. Yeah, so it's been great getting to know you and you for sure. You know, you can go into your mom's house, uh your sister's house on Thanksgiving, and everybody's just you know giving hugs and you know, nice to see you again. And it's just there's so much love in our, you know, between the two of our families, and now that's become one. It's a good fit.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:52

But uh moving forward, I don't know. I feel like for the most part, I've accomplished everything that, you know, I've I've set for myself in in the foreseeable future. Um now it's just like little things. Like I'm training for a half marathon or like educating people about topics like these or just being a resource to people. Now it's not what can I do for myself, but what can I do for the rest of the world, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:13

And are you are you happy with what you're presenting and and have created in yourself?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:18

Yeah, absolutely. I could, you know, muscle-wise, I could always be bigger. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:24

Keep up conversation, keep on coming over to the whole rod.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:29

That's my struggle. Bread. The gym level struggle against it. Don't eat bread.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:36

Um that's like the the goals everybody should have is continue to educate myself and continue to take care of my body and build generational wealth and you know, maybe work on building a family at some point.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:48

Uh but you know, it takes two.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

So it does take two.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:53

Well, I don't care w what you're you're um, you know, you've you're drawn to. LA is that's a tough place to date. It doesn't matter. Gay, straight, what your identity is. LA is not really built for meeting someone uh of quality and signing a legal document, inviting every lawyer in the state of California into your love life. I came here and within minutes found a beautiful, wonderful woman, fell in love. So uh, you know, that's yeah, LA is tough no matter who you are. The hardest part for me is dating.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:29

Yeah. Because I don't fit the exact stereotype of a man, but I also can no longer really date lesbians. I've had that that issue where I will I was dating lesbians for a while, identifying the way I do, and then it becomes an issue because I'm too masculine. Oh my god. That that's that's the other thing that's been kind of tricky is as a lesbian, I am visible to the LGBTQ community as a lesbian. But now I you can't tell. So it's a good thing and a bad thing where I'll start honing in on queer topics and they're like, why do you have a say in this? You date you're a heterosexual man. Why are you they don't actually say that.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

So do you feel a little prejudiced against you now as someone who visually perhaps looks like a heterosexual male? Sometimes. I would see that would happen if you yeah, especially in the dating campaign. Especially in West Hollywood, if you went out to certain place, you would some woman might go, oh God, straight God. It's it's harder for me to find women than men.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

Men will come up to me all the time, you know, in West Hollywood. Yeah. Oh yeah. I used to go to the bars and stuff in West Hollywood, and I'm like, you know, I'm sorry, I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:36

I'm I'm here for other reasons.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:38

Yeah, yeah, that's a great long weekend at best. Exactly. Trunks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That might not be the best spot. Yeah, yeah. I hear ya. Well, Kiki, thank you so much for coming on, and I I think that wraps up today's episode of Cruise Control. We appreciate you sharing your story, your perspective, your experience with honesty and openness. No matter where you come from, what your views may be, conversations like this remind us that behind every label, headline, debate is a human being, and in this case, a large family, trying to understand one another. At its best, that's what cruise control is about listening, asking questions, and navigating life's complexities together. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time as we continue to navigate the chaos. One conversation at a time. Couldn't have said it better, by guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:32

That's it for this conversation on cruise control. Thank you for spending time with us, listening, thinking, and navigating the chaos. These conversations don't end here. So take what resonates, question what doesn't, and carry it in your own work. Physical, mental, and spiritual. If you enjoyed the show, subscribe, follow, and share it. We'll be back soon with another conversation. Until next time, stay grounded, take care of it, and keep your cruise control steady.