Ranking the Scream Franchise

Ricky and Brandon rank the best scream movies, killers, and opening scenes. They also debate if the franchise has run its course or if we need more meta-breaking movies. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to a very scary episode of a mostly film podcast. We are the followers of franchises, the survivors of sequels, we are the true final girls. My name is Brandon, and with me as always is Ricky. Ricky, how are you today?

SPEAKER_03 0:42

I was fine until that. Ooh, are you too scared?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Oh no. I didn't mean to frighten you. I didn't mean Ricky, come back. It's the first rule of these movies. You can't just say you have to go and you'll be back or anything. That's how it always works.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

True. Well, you can't say I'll be right back. Yeah, I'll be right back. If you just leave. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

It never happens in movies. Don't even say peace. Just look at someone in the doorway, turn around and leave, and they the audience will just have to think, I I alright, I guess they're safe. I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

You make eye contact with the killer and then just start like slowly backing out.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Just give them a disappointed look. Just come on, man. You're better than this. Ricky, why is today a very scary episode? What is our topic? What are we talking about? What's going on?

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Sorry. I love it. We are talking about the Scream franchise.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yes, this is our first episode dedicated to an entire franchise. The Scream franchise now having seven films most recently coming out this year. Was number seven on the list, and I saw that one pretty recently. Ricky, did you see all the Scream movies as they came out, or did you kind of binge them all in a day, or do you what do you mean? Do you remember? Um What's your history with Scream?

SPEAKER_03 2:17

I I probably saw the first one too young. Um but uh it's weird because it's always been um like I was never really traumatized by it. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Um Well your your parents are murderers, so you you saw a lot of murder.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Yeah, like like it's kinda weird because I mean it is fairly graphic at times, but uh yeah, I definitely re-remembered the first one. The second and third I probably saw a little later. And then uh four through seven I tried to watch like as soon as they came out.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, I I feel like I saw one and two, maybe not when they came out, but maybe my middle school or teenage years. Three I maybe saw as well, but I blocked that out. Spoiler alert, we'll get into that. And then I end up re-watching all of them maybe in the past month, and uh saw seven in theaters. A friend of mine bought me the ticket. And yeah, so now I'm all caught up, and it's one of the few franchises that I've seen probably every film of. It's like this in Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I've seen all of those. Still haven't seen all like the Friday the 13th. I probably tapped out well before Jason went to space.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Yeah, um. I can't think of any other horror uh franchises that I've seen every one of Well the the the uh conjuring movies I've seen.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Oh duh yeah, those have you and the spin-offs like the nuns and stuff or just conjuring?

SPEAKER_03 4:15

I haven't seen all the spin-offs. Like I think the Nun 2 is the only one I haven't seen. Maybe I think I've seen all the Annabelles and everything. None of your business. Like the uh no, that is the uh third. Oh, my mistake. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

If only I I can't believe Hollywood keeps rejecting our scripts. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

She's back and she's sassy.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

She's having a bad habit. She's sassy. Why did that just click for me?

SPEAKER_03 4:57

Why do you keep uh killing everyone? None ya business.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Just finger wagging.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

The horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

This is a perfect film. This this is 100% gonna be the parody in the new scary movie. It's just gonna be a sassy sister.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

I am I am worried about that that movie. Like, I want it to be good, but I'm not sure. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

We'll see. I yeah, we'll definitely comment on that. That might be a franchise. I've seen almost every one of those.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Yeah, I've seen all of them.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

I I don't remember if I saw was it six? Did they have six?

SPEAKER_03 5:36

No, six is the the one that was. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

So then I have seen all of them. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Don't remember five really. Not in the slightest. I just remember Mac Miller and Snoop Dogg are in it.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Are they really?

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah. I think that was like the opening scene, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

That's fantastic. Let's go back to Scream for a moment. I want to ask something that I was thinking about to myself. Uh, I was talking out loud, making my wife fall asleep to these thoughts recently. Uh, which was Is Sidney Prescott the ultimate final girl, or do you still give that to Lori Strode?

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Um, I think there can be arguments made for like a lot of them. I I think she's she's our generation's like uh for sure. Final girl, but I mean, you know, if you're a little older, yeah, definitely Lori Strode.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

And then for those who don't know, the final girl trope is exactly what it sounds like. It is the final girl who lives in the horror movies that happens in so many of them, and usually it ends with like the final girl getting their revenge or you know beating the killer or the monster or what have you. And in both Sidney's case and Lori's Strode's case is boy, do they go through a lot of shit in so many movies? Because it's not just a one-and-done situation, they are in movie after movie after movie, constantly dealing with dealing with the same threat. Do you think as a whole the Scream franchise is pretty good? Do you think it kind of ward its welcome out?

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Um we can kind of get into that. Like, it's it's one that I will always get excited for a new movie. Um and I can't say that about like a Halloween or Friday the 13th or Yeah, it's just I'm like, uh, you know. But yeah, like I'm always excited for screens.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Well I mean we we can hop into it, although I may have a slightly differing opinion, as you said, you might get a little excited. I I I I kinda do too, but boy, my uh have my what's the word I'm looking for? Have have my uh excitement meters dropped dramatically after the most recent one. But let's go ahead and hop into it, Ricky. I mean, do you want to cover what your least favorite is first?

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Do you want to Yeah, let let's start with the worst and work our way up.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Um I I will say for mine, before I take my worst, my number one and number two, I constantly flip back and forth, my number three and my number four, I keep switch flipping back and forth, my number five is static, and my number six and seven I keep debating on which one's the worst. So like they can you can ask me every other day and I'll give you a different answer, most likely. But I don't think my one and two spot will ever drop lower, my three and four spot will never drop lower, and then my six and seven, they're never going higher. So go ahead, Ricky. Tell us what you're feeling.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Alright, so I think the worst pretty clearly is Scream 3.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

I have that as my bottom as well in the end.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Yeah, I re-watched it yesterday and I texted you, spoiler alert, still sucks. Sure did. Yeah, um It's like Wes Craven was like, hey, um, what if I made a bad scream movie? What about that?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I believe one of the things you texted me before was this is the movie that killed Wes Craven. And I said he directed four, and you said, I stand what I said what I said.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

It's so it bums me out so much because I What do you hate about it? Um Well, alright, so I wrote down here. I wonder if you'll agree with this. So do you know what I put? Well, alright, so the worst part I put the story sucks. Yeah. So um that was one thing. But maybe the worst part, Courtney's hair.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Dude, I looked back at my text to you when I watched it, like I rewatched it a couple weeks ago as well, and I believe I said to you that whoever did Courtney Cox's hair needs to be fucking thrown into a river. Like that it is awful that hair.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

And I'm pretty sure she liked like when uh Scream 5 was coming out, like her, uh David Arquette and um Nev Campbell were doing the circuits, and I'm pretty sure she was like, Yeah, wasn't great.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Well, it's so I don't even know what the hairstyle was. It was like so it was very long, but then had these really choppy bangs, and it wasn't a 90s hairstyle, it wasn't a 2000s hairstyle. I don't know who like I don't know if it was like a make-a-wish fit situation where it's like I want to do the hairstyle for Courtney Cox, and they're like, go ahead, kid. But man, it is it is distractingly bad. It like normally I don't harp on these kind of things. Right, but I was like, girl, what you doing? I always forget that you also write for BuzzFeed's best worst in drastic comms.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Girl, nah.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, that that is a really unfortunate hairdo. And weirdly enough, that movie is for the first hour, it is Gail Weathers, Courtney Cox, and Dewey Arquette. Like, it's just them, and I love them as characters, but there is no Sidney Prescott for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I realized that again watching it yesterday, like she's barely in it. Like, she's um she comes along in like the end stretch, really. But um because like the whole premise is like I don't know which stab movie they're on, but they're like filming a stab movie, and um Dewey is a consultant, he's like working with uh Parker Posey, who Parker Posey like adds so much to anything she's in. Absolutely. Like, I mean I I love her and she sh she's great in this. Um she she can't save it though, I'm sorry. But um but yeah, so he's working with her, and then I don't even remember how like Gail gets to be a part of it. Oh well.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

And you just watched it recently and you've already blocked it out.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

I mean it's like I I just you know, I don't give a shit about this movie. Like like it's just like why does it exist? Like and the um the uh first are alright, so so I did so the opening kill is um you know, Cotton Weary ge gets Lead Schreiber. Yeah, and um, you know, from from the beginning he's the one first accused of uh killing Sydney's mother, so they like think that um he's like the scream killer and whatever, and that comes he's in he you first see him in the second one, um, and then turns out, you know, spoiler, he's good. But um so he ends up getting like his own talk show, I guess. And um one of the things I loved was the uh title of it, which is 100% cotton. Such a great title.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

That's very stupid.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Um but uh yeah, so he he's the one who uh dies in the first, so it's like they're like connected to him, so they're like, oh god, ghost face again, blah blah blah. And then uh yeah, so that sets off everything, I guess. And it's just it's weird. Like there there's a disconnect, I feel like, from the first two, and maybe it is because Sydney's like kind of like taking a back seat.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yeah, it's I will say like the opening scene, the opening cone scene's not one of the worst ones, I think, in the franchise. I I really I I don't like it because I liked Leave Shre I can't say his name. Man, I I cannot speak again. I'm gonna cut that out. I'm gonna look like a genius. Um, but I like Cotton's character in Scream 2, and so when I saw them in the opening of Scream 3, my reaction was like, oh damn, they're gonna kill him. Like, so I already was kind of taken out of it because of that, because it just felt like, oh, if you're gonna bring back Cotton, even though he felt like he was relatively resolved in two, might as well, you know, do something with them. But so I'll give them the benefit that, okay, he's at least related to everything. So that's at least something. The big issue I had with Scream 3 was it felt like it was becoming a parody of itself at that point, where one and two I think are quite masterful in their meta commentary and still able to put on a good movie while being a bit self-referential at times or overly referential. But three just felt like it it was a lot of, hey, remember this, that's cool, right? Because the whole as you said, the whole point is that they're shooting the film of you know, the stab movies, and they basically redo Woodsboro within like a set. And so it's just running around the exact same locations, and it's just I don't know. It on one hand you could go, oh that's kind of neat, but on the other, I just felt like I was just completely checked out at that point. I think it's also because it's it's arguably one of the worst sidecasts in the franchise.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

And like it has people I love like Patrick War Warburton, Parker Posey, Emily more. Um But yeah, it's just there aren't really any likable characters there except there I do kinda like how like um Parker Posey and Courtney Cox, like, because Parker's playing Gail in the uh movie, and um so she's like uh shadowing Gail like that's kind of funny. And I mean that that is like sweet and like they're like dynamic, like they they end up kind of working together, which is cool, but like that is like a very small part, and um we'll like talk about this with another thing, but they really there isn't a lot of development, and they really are there just to be killed off.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, I think that's the biggest attractor, because even if you don't like all the characters in all the screen movies, they still have some sort of purpose besides, hey, we just need someone to kill in you know the first 15 minutes, or we need someone to kill at the hour mark. You know, like it it really does feel almost pretty soulless in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Yeah. Yeah, I definitely agree with with that.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

What do you think of the killer reveal? How what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Um so I ranked So this is my least favorite of the opening scenes, and I feel like that is cause like I just um they kind of make Cotton just like a shitty, like, you know. Like he he's kind of out there for the fame, but it's like you you kind of want to see him like grow and like his character is just like he's an asshole and then he's killed off. Um there is no real like development. Yeah. Um as for the A killer, I think I put the killer around like uh I put the killer at four. And I put it at at four because the whole idea of him being Sydney's half-brother is cool, the idea of it, and um there is uh a justification there, I guess, where it's like, you know, he's um taking it out on her, you know, he didn't have his family and everything, and he's like pissed. So that was kinda cool. I I think Scott Foley as the killer, he's not very good. I mean, like like I don't really care for him. But the whole idea I I rank a little higher.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yeah, I kind of flip-flopped with Scott Foley. Roman Bridger was the character's name, and the main reason I flip-flopped were sometimes I was actually in the same boat as you where I thought, okay, as the half-brother, kind of a fun gimmick. I didn't necessarily buy the motivation as much because there's another movie that does a similar motivation that I love way more, and we will get to that. But the one I don't like about Roman Bridger is okay, so I I you can maybe make an argument that his whole thing about being abandoned, because I believe he says in the movie, I went to go find my mom and she didn't want me, and that's what made me snap, or whatever. But at the same time, at this point, he's already a full grown man who theoretically has already he already has this lucrative job, and then he gets rejected by like I guess it's I mean, mental health is mental health, you can have a break at any time, but it felt weird to me to go, hey, you're 30, and yeah, your mom doesn't want to see you now whenever he maybe he went when he was earlier. I I can't remember if he clarified, but I just remember thinking to myself, this is a grown man who has a lucrative career, but and I know that doesn't mean every if everything, but you can afford therapy, my guy.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

There is so much. Yeah, right. Yeah, he's a Hollywood director. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

I also hate that the biggest thing I think I hate from three is the voice modulator in that movie. I believe I did text you when I watched it just saying, fuck this voice modulator. Because in the first two movies, it it does the whole like, oh, do you like scary movies? And it was just that one voice. Great, love it. This voice modulator and three can copy anyone's voice in history. Living or dead. It is the most overpowered device ever. And this is again 2000. That wasn't, you know, AI, where seven you can kind of justify it in seven because everyone has AI access, but here this was 2000, and sure, he's Hollywood, but that doesn't it felt too unrealistic and too silly for me to like it.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

And what what is great too is like you you can pick up on it right away that it's like not the the actual um person. It's so silly. They're they're they're they're very like One note like a monotone just like like dude, that's clearly the the the the the killer. So yeah, that is um that's a really funny uh it thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, I I think three man, it is tough to say that it's better than any other movie. Like I said though, I do flip-flop it sometimes because my other option would have been Scream 7.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

So go go ahead. Is that your uh that is your number six?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

That'd be my number six as of right now. Just mine as well. Yeah, the only reason I have it at not bottom is just because the kills are at least slightly more memorable. That's basically it, though. That Scream 7 I really disliked in so, so many ways. First, I want to start off with what I end up putting as my least favorite killer reveal in the franchise, which uh spoiler alert for everyone. I mean, this whole thing's a spoiler alert, you know this by now. Is uh Anna Camp playing Jessica and Ethan Embry playing as Marco. This was the first time in Scream history that I called both of them so quickly.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

It's funny because like as soon as I saw Anna Camp, I was like Oh, it's you. I was like, is it gonna be her? And I was like, I hope not. So this is my my worst, too. It's by by far the worst.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

I wrote in my notes, who are these people? Yeah, and I I yay for subversion, I guess, because it's not really anyone they truly know. But I guess Jessica is friends with Nev Campbell's character, she's friends with Sydney, but at the same time, why would Sydney be like it's Sydney Prescott, she's been through this so many times, she knows how to protect herself, why would she even be friends with this person in general? That seemed kind of weird that she'd be like, this person passes my not bullshit crazy detector test. But I think the big giveaway is I think Scream 7 was trying to cater to fans so much with the constant Stu Mocker uh Matthew Lillard callbacks, which dear God, I hate the use of the whole AI thing. I I'm just over AI as a topic in movies, it's so boring and not interesting. Yeah, it's it's just like fucking just be better at everything. Stop relying on this kind of nonsense. But there is a spot where Marco recognizes Stu, or yeah, recognizes Stu when they're saying, Oh, we we this guy is trying to chase us, but he should be dead, and Ethan Embry's character goes, Oh, that's John, he was here. And then you go, Well, then it's you, because Stu Mocker's dead. And I know there's a bunch of fan theories like maybe he's alive, but fans are morons. So when when Marco, when Ethan Embry's character says, I recognize this person, it's an instant, okay, well then you're the killer. Because there's no way why why don't I just say, sorry, I don't know who that is. You there's no reason for you to go, Oh I think he might be living. He could just go sorry, I can't help you.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

That he might have been Stu, like cause you know, his face is crushed and and all that, so it's like, oh yeah, to have re reconstructive surgery. Um so I had this idea that I'm gonna throw out to you and see what what you think. Instead of like the whole Matthew Lillard thing, do you think it could have worked if they had used Rose McGowan? Whereas Sydney clearly knows that she's dead. But that was her her best friend, she named her her daughter after her. Right. So it's like they're like using this to like mess with with Sydney.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Um like you you're saying would the movie be better if Rose McGowan was actually the killer or that Rose McGowan was the AI?

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Because I mean she's she's clearly dead, but if they were gonna use the AI, why not just like tug on the the heart strings, like make it personal?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah, I think that would have been a better option because one again, I get that they were trying to appeal to the online fans who were trying to make it that Stu Mocker was alive, but also how if if someone died I never knew knew that, like Yeah, I never knew that was a thing. That would have to be like a whole 20-year conspiracy of oh, some random cop maybe was Stu's dad. Like they would have to create a bunch of hurdles. So already Stu Mocker had to be dead. So I think just going, hey, we're gonna show you Rose McAwan's character as a fuck you to just fuck with your head would have been better, because we would have gone, okay, that's not the killer, but it is someone who is here to put Sydney off her game.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Cause I mean, they they don't talk about her uh a ton after the uh first one, and clearly, I mean, Sydney loved her, she named her frickin' daughter after her. So yeah, and that that could have been like like something I feel like that that could have really worked. Um I also So I I know you you said you you liked the A kills. The a kills are really creative, that is one of the things I like. And also the the whole thing that keeps me from putting it at at the bottom is Nev Campbell and it it Isabel May playing Tatum, her her her daughter. Yeah. I feel like they're they're great. Like their their story's great, but everything around it, like this is the the the most like these characters are literally just here to die that the series has ever been.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

The most infuriated I was watching the movie was when Tatum's boyfriend they get in the car and he opens up his laptop and depend doing the AI thing be like, I'm gonna slit your throat, you know, Sydney Prescott. And she's like, Why do you have this? And he says, I just wanted to do it if I could. Like, see if I could. And it's okay. If that was true, why that line? You could have just said anything. You you could have said, I'm gonna go shop at Ashley Furniture. Like, you could have said whatever you wanted. You didn't have to say.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Oh darn it, I did this at the wrong place at the wrong time.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

I was flabbergasted because it was obvious, like, okay, it's going to be another red herring that he actually didn't do it, and he didn't. The boyfriend was fine. But dude, what what would possess you to say I killed my girlfriend's mom, or I'm gonna try to kill my girlfriend's mom, who is actively being hunted all the time.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yeah, it's like this guy was clearly gonna be the next killer, so it's pretty good that he died. She hugs him later.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

She hugs him like, oh, I'm so glad you're safe. That should have been he gets killed, but at the same time, it's I feel like I'd be pretty mad still. Like, no, like whatever happens you happens to you, man. That's fucked up. That gives a break. Just because I decided to cosplay as a killer about your mom who's constantly trying to get killed. Ladies, that's a red flag right there. Don't date boys who make videos about killing your mom. But maybe that's me. Maybe I have high standards. I don't know. It's it's so weird. I was so when I saw Scream 7, I saw it with a friend, and we were the only ones in the theater, so we were just talking the entire time, going, Fuck this, just getting furious. It's fantastic. Uh I did have this uh the opening scene as my second least favorite of the series, just because it's the Stu Mocker house, which is kind of fun, but it was completely random people, which was boring, didn't really hold anything to the plot. Some good tension, but it was completely unrelated to the entire movie, more or less. So there's one that I I disliked just a little more, but yeah, it's it's the one I really I think it stylistically was cool, and like I said, great tension, but because it was completely unrelated to everything, I didn't really care.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

I had it at four. Oh wow. Be because I thought the actors were were were good. Like I like um I think it was Michelle Randolph and Jimmy Tatru, I think.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

I believe so.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Um like they're they're sweet and everything. They're they're a couple like going on a vacation to this house, the Steelmacher house, which has become an attraction, like a haunted house thing that you you can stay in. Like an Airbnb almost. Yeah, yeah. But I I I definitely uh uh uh understand your argument there. It is probably the most random of them all. When it gets to my lower ones, I think we're gonna have a disagreement, but there's like one thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

I'm excited. I was also surprised that they let Mindy and Chad Meeks Martin both live, because again, it was a they were stabbed uh multiple times. I mean, Chad's been stabbed a thousand times. I think it was was it six that he gets stabbed like fifty times and lives?

SPEAKER_03 32:34

He's just constantly getting stabbed.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah, and I like those characters, but it was just weird again that it was they felt very forced in there. Yeah, they they didn't need to be in this movie as much. And they also weren't great at what they were trying to do. They were trying to like protect the kids, and so they're they know one of you are the killers, and they put them all in a single location and then let them all split up. You two are the you've been through this twice now, and you put them in the most dangerous situation possible. It really is an idiot plot.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

It it is. Um and they they had done that in uh five, I think was the first one where like Mindy's um got 'em all in the the living room and Dewey's there and they're like talking about it, and then it's like, yeah, they're they're doing that again.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Um and that's almost acceptable because it's the reboot and it's their first time through the situation.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah. Yeah, for for sure, but it's like they're they're copying it again.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yeah. Any any last thoughts on seven before I fucking die from anger?

SPEAKER_03 33:44

Um I guess not as bad as three. For for for me. I know you can go back and forth, but yeah, I think Nev Campbell and Isabel may save it. Um for for me.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

I guess we should also discuss some of the weird um controversies about it. I don't know if we want to address any of them.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Or if it's Yeah, um, I I I feel like you know more about it than I do.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

I'll I'll make it quick just because you know I'd rather get back to the movies and not dwell too much. But for one, uh Scream Six didn't have Nev Campbell, which was a big you know, Jesus Christ, why?

SPEAKER_03 34:24

She wanted to get more money. And they should have paid her more money.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

She's Nev Campbell.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

And Seven really saw that and said, what if we did like weird shady shit too? So they didn't bring back uh Melissa Barrera, who was in five and six. They claimed it was because of anti-Semitic comments. You can find the quotes online, I'm not gonna debate them uh whether you think it is or not. I will just say that there was 1,200 other actors who kind of agreed that what's going on with like Gaza and Israel, and none of them got their careers ruined. So that that was kind of a bummer that she wasn't in it, or uh Jenna Ortega did not return, and she specifically did say it had nothing to do with pay or scheduling, it was the Melissa stuff, so it seemed like Jenna kind of was backing Melissa as well, and then the uh Anna Camp weirdly was uh kind of criticizing all the boycotts that people were saying, just saying like boycotts aren't gonna matter, who cares? Which in the end she was kinda right because the movie did very well financially. And the movie also did a very strange thing, which was uh they did their marketing through betting apps, so you could go on these betting apps, and I'm not gonna say their names because fuck those apps, but you could basically bet in advance who was gonna live, who was gonna die, and I just find that really fucking scummy and gross. So everything around Scream 7 is just nasty and not great.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Oh, um were the radio silence guys were they already off? Did they already say they weren't directing this one before like Melissa because they were the ones that did five and six?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

I can't no, I I think they got fired after maybe? I I honestly can't remember because that was another video.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

It was Melissa first. I think so. And they were still in line to direct.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

I think so, yeah. That was another big thing, was there was a lot of production hell where the writers and directors kept getting kind of swapped around, and then Kevin Williamson, who was you know the original writer, got thrown into direct, and I think he was just kind of given a raw deal more than anything. I don't think this was like a slam on him being a bad director or writer. I think this movie was almost doomed from the start to be good. I mean, it still made lots of money, so what the fuck do I know in that regard? But yeah, pretty bad film. Not a vif, not a fan, not a fan of this one. And again, not any shade towards the actors. Like you said, Isabel May as Tatum I thought was really great. Nev Campbell, I think, does one of her strong performances as well, so it's just a lot of dumb choices that I hate. Yeah. Shall we jump to uh what's your next one, Ricky? Because this is where I think things might start getting a little faculty. This will be interesting. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

My next one here is six. Oh my god, that's mine. Okay, maybe our list is gonna be the exact same. Um the I I think so from what you said earlier, you do you like this killer reveal a lot? Um No. Okay. Not really. I was kind of uh because I was like I was kinda worried that because I really don't I have it at five. Okay. Yeah, this one's my so we have my bottom three here already have been announced. Yeah. This is my six. Um wait, or isn't my my seven, this might actually No, no, set seven's Anna Camp. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's no way in hell. That would be wrong.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Um My opinion is wrong. I need to change it.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yeah, yeah, that this one's my my six and um it feels so weird and like this is where these films I kinda realized that they're really starting to like the the reboot kinda copies the the originals. Yeah. Um where like the five copies one and then six here copies two.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Um and yes, six so it's kind of I guess we we can my my next one ranked is uh five. I don't know if like you wanna like just talk about both of them.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

We have the exact same fucking rankings right now. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Alright, so so that that that kind of helps because like I feel like we we can't talk we need to talk about five and six to make at the same time. You you you go go ahead like yeah, I I think we might have a lot of the same thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

I I don't think five and six are bad by any means. I actually still enjoy them both quite a bit. I think five is dramatically better than six though in a lot of ways. Yes. So five was the reboot of the franchise, and I think it did enough meta enough references from the reboot from the first movie where it was great, so that you know, they had the opening scene of girl, phone call, killer. Very similar to number one.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Um one thing I'll I'll say I I hate that opening scene so much. Oh, is it's your bottom?

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Please go.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

This one is This one's six for me. The the the the five uh opening. And do you know why? Because Jenna Ortega should not have survived. She is murdered! She is like she is killed in that. There's no way, like, like, yeah, like um Mason Gooding's ki character, like like Chad, right? He's like, you know, stabbed throughout all of them, and like uh Courtney Cox is like shot and stabbed and everything, but god, like they set it up, and this is the only one where the opening, like, the the the character survives, and it's like she shouldn't have survived.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Like, it's too much. I'm weird. You're this is where we had to defer a bit. I actually have this opening at three. Oh dear. And here's here's the reason. Shega can fucking act like a motherfucker. She she she can. And you're right, no, she should not have survived. But also, we're we've now seen movies where people are getting stabbed 30 to 40 times and they're fine. We've seen Dewey get stabbed a thousand times and he's completely fine. So, like, in a weird way, the reason I liked it was because it was subversion enough. It wasn't just trying to copy the first one where the first girl dies and there's a boyfriend who dies. They still go, hey, it's just girl and killer and phone call. She lives. I also kind of like that the scary movie talk was her being like, nah, I like elevated horror films like hereditary and midsummer, like the Baba Duke and stuff like that. I thought that was very funny and also topical because I think a lot of people are now like, oh, Silasha films. So that made me laugh. Uh I I think I liked it just because it it was very visceral and it was just cat and mouse. It wasn't a lot of extra gimmicky things. It was just this thing. And I I thought they did a good job making that. Where I think six deviates is six really tries to copy two in so many beats. Where I feel like five does enough to go, we're we're clearly referencing the first. We're gonna copy a little bit of the first, but we're still gonna make our own, you know, movie here. Six it still has the same reveal as two, so I have to have to spoil two a little bit here, in that it is a one, a partner, like it's it's like a you know, it goes back to the boyfriend. So it's um I'm sorry, I'm I'm getting things mixed up. It's a parent seeking revenge in six, and that was the same thing with two. There was a parent seeking revenge in six, and I thought that was kind of a uh okay. There is how do I put this? It just felt like six was being more of a retread of two as opposed to five, which was being more homage to one. And again, I don't hate six. I think there are some really good, you know, kills. I actually think that Melissa is better in six than she is in five. I think she gets a few more moments to shine in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

I think the whole idea, so with the with five and six, I guess the big re reveal is that Melissa Barrera, her her character is Billy Loomis's daughter. Yes. Which is cool as hell, but like and it bums me out that we can't see like how that Yeah, we're not gonna see that resolution screaming. Um 'cause yeah, in six, like 'cause in five you like see it a little bit and um she she sees her uh dad. She has like visions of him. Um in like six so like she has those moments where it's like oh she's a killer.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Um and that's really cool, that whole dynamic. And I do understand like in that is with uh the opening of five, it's like they're flipping the script. They don't want to like copy it like directly, which is like their their own spin on it. Which is cool, yeah. It it i it's just I I have trouble like suspending my my disbelief, I guess. Um but yeah, and I I also I like the the cast of five and the the the the characters more. Yeah and you have like Marley Shelton re re returning from four.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

You have the final appearance of Dewey.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Yep, Dewey's back.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Which I've seen a lot of people complain at Dewey's death because instead of you know killing the ghost face when Dewey has a chance, he helps the people escape and then he goes back and he's like I have to, you know, shoot him in the head. And even though I know a lot of people complain about that, I kinda like it because Dewey's never been a badass by any means. Like I feel like we mostly see him misfiring and missing the ghost face. But I think what he does have is a good heart and he's a protector, and he did the right thing to get his loved ones out first before doing the cool badass action shot. So I kind of forgive that. Uh five has maybe one of my favorite lines in the series, and it is delivered by Dewey, at least it's my favorite Dewey line. And it's when they are doing the homage to um uh uh Jamie Kennedy in their in the living room and everything, where someone accuses Dewey of being the killer. He's like, Well, maybe you're the killer because you're a bad cop whose wife left him and you know basically piles on his shitty life, and Dewey just goes, Well, maybe you're the killer because that cut me deep. Legitimately hilarious line. I think that's another thing that I liked about Five, because this was the introduction of uh Jamie Kennedy's uh niece and nephew as uh the film knowers, basically, the people to go, these are the rules of films. And I kinda like that. I didn't think it was too shoehorned in. I thought they did it well enough to make those characters fun. Randy a goat. Randy is the goat, R.I.P. man.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

So, you know, I'm I'm all for uh Yeah, and um they they had his uh sister there. Um who I don't know if she had her first appearance was three. I don't re remember exactly. Um but yeah, she she comes back and um yeah, so Chad and Mendy are her her kids and Randy's niece and nephew, so that that is cool. They're they're not as great as Randy, but I I I I r respect like what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

I like them the most in five.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Yeah, oh oh yeah, yeah. For for sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Well, we talked about Jenna Ortega's intro in Scream 5. What do you like about Scream 6? I mean, this has to be at least in your top four now.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Uh no, that this one is like um so my opening goes Scream Three, the the worst, then five, then six. Oh wow. Yeah, so where did you have seven? You had it at four probably or okay, okay. Um so six God it's tough because it's Samara Weaving and Samara Weaving.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

She's a Scream Queen. She's so good.

SPEAKER_03 48:15

So I was, you know, when we were talking about Lori Strode and uh Sidney Prescott, you know, Samara Weaving's just I I mean she is this generation this generation str Scream Queen. Like like I don't I don't know if she could really be a final girl. I mean if they make more ready or not, possibly. Yeah. But I mean she's she's doing she mainly does horror movies and she's so great. But um yeah, so it's the guys who directed five and six also directed ready or not. Um and so you know, they they probably like were like, hey, you you wanna come do this? She was like, sure. And um it's just I don't really so Tony Revelori and I guess Is there another guy who's like supposed to be like they're like film students?

SPEAKER_04 49:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

And they wanna like copy like the ghost face thing and stab and everything, so they they kill Samara Weaving, who's like the teacher, um, but then Tony Revelori gets killed by I guess the daughter?

SPEAKER_01 49:41

I would imagine so. I I'm sure we could do the math and figure it out, but I yeah But so you you don't like that reveal. You don't like the the killer gets killed that early?

SPEAKER_03 49:51

I mean, I I just don't really like the like it's fine, but it doesn't like really do anything.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

I I okay, I see where you're coming from because that was sort of my I have it at four, so it it's still in that you know we're we're we're clear ballparking it. Where I think if it was just Samara weaving, it would have been kind of like, oh, okay, so girl gets alerted into Alley and dies like alright, that's you know, spooky, it's scary. I thought it did get a little bit elevated by the reveal because I remember thinking, oh, weird, they're showing a ghost face right now, and then he gets killed. And I was more so hoping that it was going to create this much grander scenario that there's multiple ghost faces that were all kind of killing each other.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

That would have been cool.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

That's what I thought they were setting up, and then it just never gets addressed, and so you go, oh, okay, well.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Yeah, that would have been a really cool idea.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Well, we should write it.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

And then it's like the uh main group like like has to like be like, who's the ghost face killing the ghost face?

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah, exactly. It's just everyone's so obsessed that it becomes a giant, mass, violent mayhem.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

Let's stop talking.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

No one take our ideas. Don't take that or uh nonsense or whatever we call them. None of your business. Yeah, none of your business. Can't take any of those.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

But yeah, yeah, so so I do like it is I guess because the payoff kind of like sucks. Maybe that is why the payoff in the opening. The uh payoff in six as a whole. Like I just don't so I guess we should talk about the uh killer in five who ends up being um the the the the boyfriend. Yeah. Like like in one which is a good idea. But he's with but they also use a friend from the group who's um his actual like girl girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah. So they've like met 'cause like they're um They were on a message board, right? Yeah, they're they're big fans of the stab series, so they met on a message board and they just set out to like, you know, re recreate. So he he ends up he he he's found out that Melissa Barrera is Billy Loomis's daughter, so he like meets her and on like maybe a dating site or or something. And um they get together and so his whole thing is he he wants to doesn't he wanna is that the one where like he wants to frame her, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:41

That is like um that what it ends up being like Jack Quaid's trying to frame Mikey.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

No. Um he's trying to frame Melissa Barrera as Oh yes, the killer, right? Yeah, yeah. Um it copies, I think, one maybe too much for for for me. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

That it's the whole boyfriend.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

Yeah, yeah, it's like they're they're directly copying. And um, I mean it's kind of like four too, where where it's a guy and a girl.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

We'll get to four.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

But yeah, I I had Amber and Richie as my fourth favorite reveal, so beating Scream 6, 3, and 7. I'm not crazy about the reveal as much either, but I still like the movie as a whole. Um that was actually another thing from Scream 6 that I thought was a bit more derivative in that uh the cop Dermot uh Mulroney, who plays Officer Bailey, tries to gaslight everybody into thinking that it's uh Kirby Reed from Scream 4 is the killer. And that's the same tactic that was used in Scream 2. So like it was another like deliberate take that you go, uh, okay. So if you've seen Scream 2 and then you watch Scream 6, you go, okay, well, I know this kind of beat for beat. And I I think, yeah, Scream 5, I think, still does that a little bit. It doesn't bother me as much as I think it it bothers you, but um I also just like Mikey Madison in it. She's very fun.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Yeah, I mean she's a shadow in it. Once upon a time in Hollywood, she's very nuts. Both of those. She goes crazy. Um yeah, I I definitely enjoy it more than six, and then six is like Dermot Mulroney is Richie's dad, and um then it's Richie's brother and sister, so it's the the the whole family doing the uh killing instead of um you know just the parent.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Yeah, so that was a a first for the series, which was three killers.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Yeah. And yeah, it's just re rewatching them, I'm like Well, I don't wanna like they they they I don't wanna I don't wanna spoil like my my rankings too much. We're almost to the end here, but yeah, it's they they do start to become re repetitive and yeah, I mean that that's the the main thing. It's like you've you've seen it be before and even when they're trying to do something new doesn't work as well, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Yeah. No, I mean uh so far our rankings they might be the exact same. Uh yeah, yeah, they they are so far. Should we jump for the next one? Yeah, because I have a feeling it's what's scary scary movie. Uh Scream 4 is my next one. Yeah. Yeah. So Scream 4, I I will say, this is this this is my maybe our way we'll differ a little bit. This is my least favorite opening of a Scream franchise.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Oh, dang.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

I really don't like this. And now I will admit, I maybe if I saw Scream 4 back in 2011, it would have been really cool. But I feel like meta anything, whether it's meta comedy or meta movies or you know, just whatever, it's just been so beaten to the ground and a lot of times done so poorly that I am burnt out on it. And so when it is the there first it's a it's basically a movie within a movie within a movie, so it's three different openings, and I'm just I don't care at that point. Like I get burnt out by it so fast because it's first it's the bad acting of the purposeful bad acting, I should say. So good, purposeful bad acting. Where the girls get killed and it turns out they're watching a movie, and it goes to Anna Packin and um uh Kristen Bell watching a film, and then actually there a movie and Kristen Bell stabs Anna Packin, and then it zones out again, and then it's like the real character is going like, This is dumb, and I'm just on one hand it's very fun, but like I said, I think I've seen it so many times, and and maybe that's on me. Maybe if this movie maybe did this way before other people, but when you've seen so much like it anyway, it just burned me out. But that is just a testament, though, of why this movie I think is still very good. Like I hate the opening, but I love the rest of the movie. Where do you have the opening? Is it your number one? Three. Three.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

I I I I love it. Um I love the actresses they that they got, and so they were they were pulling from when this came out, they were pulling from uh Chine Grimes was on 90210, Lucy Hale had a show, uh Amy Tegarden was on Friday Night Lights, Brit Britt Robertson. So I was watching like all all the these shows they were in, and like Anna Packwin was on True Blood, and uh Kristen Bell, she was Veronica Mars. But it's like so Anna Pacquin and Kristen Bell are older. Yeah. Um and it's like just like see seeing them, it's like it it is just fun for f for me personally, and like liking the these actresses and just like enough where you were probably watching it going, okay, these are all care famous people. Yeah, and I I didn't mind the the the whole movie and a movie and a movie. Um yeah, it's uh it's silly, but but it's like fun for for for for for me. So I kinda like I feel like our our opinions are kind of different when it comes to like the four and five openings. Yeah. Or like I really like. Yeah. But man, like if three didn't exist and like but maybe three had to exist so he could make four because four comes eleven years after, and it's just so much better.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Like Yeah, four is crazy good. And also you have uh Alison Bree in there, who I believe was just in her second year of community at that time, so she wasn't, you know, a big superstar yet.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

Allison Bree. He's he's taken a lot from TV, actually, yeah, because Adam Brody from, you know, his he had mainly just done the OC. Um and he's in it. Anthony Anderson had had done movies. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Anthony Anderson is one of the cops.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

Yeah. Uh gets stabbed in the skull, I believe. Yep. And he's still walking around like, oh, oh god, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

The main thing for me for this one is two things. One, I love that this is probably like the most confident Sidney Prescott we get, because she's already been through three horrific um experiences, and so this is her kind of in her redemption, and I'm healing arc. So I kind of like seeing that side of Sydney because we get to see her arc grow. I will say. And this is tough. I might switch back on this later. I think this is my second favorite killer reveal.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

It's my third.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

Yeah, it's my my third and my second, I can swap him back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

It's tough for for for me, because I just put like, you know, one and two up there. Spoiler, they're the only films we have left. If you were surprised by this, you wouldn't have been listening to the first five minutes of this podcast. Um but but yeah, like like the it is a really cool I re remember like being very shocked um by the reveal. Um they they play it up very well, and I mean the main character of this one is the the the killer. I think that is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

So Emma Roberts is the qu it seems to be the Sidney Prescott character, because we see her perspective from the get-go, she's constantly getting attacked, or you know, she's in rooms where people are getting attacked, which is nice to you know subvert that as well. But I think what I love, because there's also Rory Colkin who plays Charlie Walker in it, who's the killer alongside Jill Roberts. And his his thing is fine. Like, you know, he's just I I would say he's a little less fleshed out. But I think what I love so much about Emma Roberts being the killer as the reveal is I think her character is a fantastic mix of both one, two, and three. Because uh, in one, we you know go back to the duo being this uh being the setup uh and trying to both survive, very similar to one with uh Billy and uh Stu. So there's that. But then we get a betrayal where Jill betrays Charlie Walker and kills him, which is what we see in two. So we get that kind of reveal. But also Jill has the kind of aspirations of Timothy Oliphant and two, where she really wants that fame. She wants to be the final girl. And I also think it has a little bit of three in there because, well, it is also a family dynamic. I believe they're cousins, correct? And cousins are and I think her family dynamic and wants make way more sense than uh Roman's did in three, where Jill Roberts is saying, you know, she's just a normal kid, and all she heard growing up was Sidney, Sidney, Sydney, Sydney, Sydney.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

And that I feel like it works because she's younger, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

It works because she's younger, and that that's a big thing, is being overshadowed by someone else and not having your own life. Whereas Roman is already like, he has a great life. He's fun. People know who Roman Bridgers is. No one's like, hey Roman, Sidney Prescott, right? Like, no one's going up to him about that, except maybe in movie interviews, because he's inter doing a movie about fucking Sidney Prescott. So I think the motivations for Jill Roberts is significantly better than I would argue almost everybody in the movie besides one and or in the franchise besides one and two. But I still put it up more and I'll I'll get to two why in a minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

Yeah, um, I definitely agree with that. I do think two and one for for me, like well like one's weird. Um but two, like, yeah, you you understand that. Plus she's crazy. Yeah. But but four, like, if you're separating like one and two, and then four, I think, holds up on its own, and then it's five through seven for f for me, like, there's definitely a a gap there. Four's like weird. It's the last one that Wes Craven did. Um, and it is like a redemption kind of after three.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:50

Um it's weird. Like, I don't know the the full story. I'll have to like read more into it. Um because Williamson wrote I don't remember if he wrote all of them. Maybe he didn't write five and six. But he wrote one through four and seven.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:15

Um, did he not write five and six?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

Uh he did I I think no, I I think he might have only been credited as characters created by Oh okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

Yeah, and I I think this one because he he he created Dawson's Creek. He sure did. And I've never never watched Dawson's Creek, but like I know that it's like teenagers. You know, and like going going through life and everything. And I feel like four does that, like, really well.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:53

Um and they're they're presented I think a little younger than than they are in the first Two. Maybe because I feel like the the actors too were a little older in one.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

I feel like the 90s were way more comfortable with having like 20 somethings play 15 years old.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:14

Yeah, but like they're actually getting like Yeah. Um so yeah, I I I think that that helps it. And also I love the um they're they're kind of like the the Randy guys, I guess. They there isn't really a true Randy guy, yeah. But the um the Rory Culkin who ends up, you know, not being great, but uh the the other guy they're they're like you know really into film and they're like showing like you know the stab show showcase and whatever and yep they're like doing screenings of it like like they're uh doing their own like rocky horror thing but with the the stab movies so so that is cool. Um and yeah it is kind of like you know I am a sucker for that that age group, the whole coming of age thing, and it is like you know probably the the the the best at focusing on what the high schoolers are going through, I guess. Yeah, I would agree to that. Yeah. Yeah, so that that is really cool for for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Well, shall we move on to the final two movies? Because I believe we both have scream two and scream one. So I want to know, Ricky, and as I said at the top, my one and two swap daily. Like if I That's crazy, it's tough to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Really? Like, so so so do you go two and then one?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:47

I in the end I went my number one is Scream One, and my number two is Scream Two.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Yeah, like like so Scream One, spoiler, is my favorite horror film.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

Um We had the exact same movie rankings.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

Yeah. Which is uh, you know, it's I feel like that is the pretty popular up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

This is that joke in Futurama of like the two presidents who are the exact same, like Josh Johnson and John Josh Johnson or whatever. Where it's like your your tax on three percent tax doesn't go high enough, but your three percent tax goes too far. Like the exact same thing as this. No, we're different, we swear.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:33

But yeah, I I could not like there's a big gap because like I just put Scream One like on a pedestal, I think. And why why it's my favorite horror movie is because this is the one where they they they reference all the other horror movies. They know about horror movies. It's that that meta thing where like and Randy is my my favorite horror movie character. He's great. He's like, he's like that is me. Like, you know, he's the this film nerd, um but like he also he has some friends. Yeah, it's like he's he's still like l likeable nerd. Yeah, yeah, he's he's likable. And I just I I can relate to to him and um it's just it's so so cool what what it does. I I think it still holds up so so well. Um but especially like uh at at this time it's like oh shit, like they know about all the others, and it's setting out these rules like this is what you can't do in a horror movie. That uh I'll be right right back on shit, and you're not supposed to say that. Like, and Randy gets so upset, like, dude, you know, you're you're you're so stupid. Um But yeah, it's just it's it's such a cool movie. Um and and two is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

Do it two might be an impossible sequel to me. Because Scream One is so iconic and brilliant that to make a sequel to it, you go, How do you make this even remotely good? And I kinda think they nailed it. I think Scream Two is fantastic. Four is a high bar to clear, and then three fucking hit its head on the door.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

Yeah. Um two is I feel like cause two, they don't try and change too much. The worst thing about two, I think, is that they kill off Randy. Yeah, that's brutal. Sucks. You know, it's like no, don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:11

I like him. My my my character, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:15

The um thing that I wrote for Scream One. I mean, you you basically said everything I was gonna say. That they it really was a movie for horror fans, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:26

Probably the most important thing that I didn't mention about one, they do the psycho thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

Oh, but the corn syrup, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:36

No, they they do the psycho reference. So this is gonna be a spoiler for for psycho. Sorry, people. It it's what, it's almost 70 years old by now, so sorry. Get on.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:50

This is on this.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

But so so Janet Lee is the elite throughout, and then she's killed. Yes. And what they do in Scream One is you have Drew Drew Barrymore, who's I mean, I think people know who that is when you see her. Like she was the little girl in E.T. poltergeist.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

She's been famous or doing movies for decades.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:19

So it's like, oh, you know, Drew, Drew Barrymore, and Drew Barrymore is so good in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:25

Like if she had gotten an Oscar nomination. Yes. That's this is my my my my my Oscar number one.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

It is an incredible performance by Drew Barrymore. It's it's heroine.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:38

It's so good, and she is like maybe she's never been better. Like, but like she's so convincing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:47

Yeah, she's panicking better than I've ever seen someone panic in one of these situations.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:52

So brutal and visceral.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

That's some sorry to interrupt, but that's something I kind of forgot is how fucking realistic that first slashing scene is.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:05

Oh, it's and I think they had to tone it down to not get the NC17. They did. Yeah. Cause like I think they had her entrails and stuff out. But I think they like cut that down to not get the NC17. But yeah, man, it's still like brutal as hell, and you know, her her her parents are showing up and she's calling for for them. But it is that uh fake out, it's like you don't know that, you know. Hey, Drew, Drew, Drew Barrymore, this well-known actress, she getting killed in the first really is a wow, they hired this amazing actress.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:49

Surely she'll be fine. Surely she's gonna kill Ortega it.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:54

I don't think that um uh I haven't read exactly, but I have a feeling Wes was like paying homage to Psycho with them. Oh, I'm sure. Like, I mean, how how could you not not be? But it's like, yeah, the the whole fake out there. Um and then that sets off, you know, who actually is the main character in Sydney Prescott.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:22

Um, so it's like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

Thank you. It's it's a a brilliant opening, and I even think that two has a pretty fantastic opening as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:34

Yeah, how do you rank them?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:37

I I I would agree. It's that that one is the best. Yeah, it's because it is re-watching it. I also forg kind of always forget that it's not that she just gets stabbed a bunch and dies. They hang her. Like and you go, like, oh, oh my god. Yeah, and I think they they reference that again. I think it's six, they have like two people get hung, or maybe five. There's like a quick flash, like after they get killed. It's very, very quick. Uh I think it is six, I who knows, I can't remember. But it I think hanging is always such a brutal, like it almost feels more jarring a lot of times to me than just seeing someone get stabbed. Like, stab obviously is horrible, but being hung up for display just creeps me out way more. Like it really fucks with me, and it is brutal. And and the fact that the the small details in that opening scene of the parents hearing their daughter on the phone get murdered, that's dark. That is dark as shit. And like, I think that's sort of my problem with some of the other openings and later's movies. Like, even if they're enjoyable, like seven is fun in some ways, they still feel very like, oh, those cheeky murderers. Like, it's it's very like not cutesy, but it doesn't feel as like, oh, this is a horror film, by the way. This is actually something to be fucking on guard about.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:02

I think Drew's per performance you you care about her so much more than any of the others. And maybe it's cause it's the the the first where like the others, it's like you know what to expect.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:20

Sure. But I mean let's compare it with two for a moment. Because I I do love two for what it represents and how it sets up the movie. I think it's a really two's cool as hell, yeah. But I think the the lead actress in it doesn't have the same chops that Drew Barrymore does. I I would say her name, but I do not want to get slapped.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:38

And it's Jada Pinkett Smith.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:42

Look up look at And not that Jada's bad in it by any means, but she does have a very like ah like scream at the end that's very like over the top in a silly way.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:54

Um what I do love about two, I I guess I should say one thing you kind of also do for two is you you're not rooting for Jada to get killed, but she is the entire time like, this movie's dumb, this is scary, I don't like it, so you're kind of like, oh, you're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:09

And so it it sets up a different tone than And I think she's probably supposed to be a little over the top. Um, because you know, they're at the screening for this is for stab one. Stab one, yeah. Yeah. Um, so like there are tons of people there dressed as ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

Or dressed as ghost case, and they're stabbed in the air. They have like blown the dark knives.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

So it's like when w after she's stabbed and she's dying, um, they're they're they're like thinking it's a joke and then stunt, and yeah. Yeah, finally at like the end, they're like, Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

Yeah, it's it's really cool because also I think one thing that I I think Scream 2 does really, really well is talk about the impact that movies have on real-world violence, and if if there even is an impact on that. And it's interesting because in this world, these are real murders, and yet people are going to these movies dressing up and you know, trying to replicate and having a good time, and they're ha they're they're having fun, like, yay, murder! Ha ha, that's so cool. And in a weird way, we do that as a society. Like, we're obsessed with true crime, we're obsessed with serial killers. That being said, we're not going to like, you know, a movie about Casey Anthony or whatever, and like, you know, we like dressing up in that. So there is a difference. It I think that's something I love about Scream 2, because they have that whole conversation in their movie class of does violence cause uh it do violent movies cause violence and all that stuff. And that has that great scene of like sequels suck, which is very funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:53

That is another great, great moment when they're talking about sequels. Um that is another thing that I love. They're in film class just talking about films, Godfather 2, and you know, that is a great sequel, and all this, and also the uh casting again, Joshua Jackson from Mighty Ducks, um, and Dawson's Creek and uh randomly sho showing up there. I wish he was in it more. That would have been fun, like if he had gotten like a death scene. Um but thankfully we get Sarah Michelle Geller in it, which is awesome. Love love that. Um and she gets a great death scene. Um so ye y y yeah, like they and you know, of course, my my boy Timmy oh Timmy Shallop shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:58

No, no. We can't bring him up every episode. Timothy Oliphant.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:03

Oh man. If you want to slap me, that'd be like a big thing. One of my favorite actors of all time.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:11

He's fantastic as the killer reveal.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:13

Yes, he's he's just so good in everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:17

So I I guess the question is it if one's your favorite, is the Billy Loomis Doomaka reveal better than the uh Mickey slash Nancy Loomis reveal?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:30

Yeah, so I think. Let me just double check here. Yeah, so Scream One is like and I don't know. I mean, maybe it's just cause like it it holds a special place for me, but I put it as number one for my killer. I did number one for the opening scene, and it's my my number one. Um because I mean it is like like my I'll say it again, my my favorite horror movie, and it's just it's and without one, you know, you don't get two, so but I mean maybe do you put Nancy and Mickey uh ahead of Stu and Billy?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:20

I don't. Nancy, I I I actually end up putting at three below Emma Roberts and Billy Loomis and Stu Maker as one. The reason for that is as much as I love that reveal because it is a continuation of the first one, we don't get a lot of the Debbie Salt character by Lori Metcalf too much in that one. So it it feels not like out of left field, but it doesn't feel like it has that big enough impact. It's very cool still. I still love it, especially even the fake out when they reveal Gail Weathers walks out and they're like, Gail, you're the killer, and you know, she just Corney Cox does a really good just like nope, not me, like a little head shake, and I love that. And Timothy Oliphant as Mickey is fantastic because as I stated before, he's just kind of fame-chasing, and I love that Lori Metcalf pops him and is like, nope, that's not what we're about. And I think that's so cool to have that. Again, two killers, but they're gonna fuck with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:19

And Timothy probably relates. I mean so Stu and Billy, Billy is upset because um Sidney's mother had sex with his father, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:44

That's the whole Sydney's mother had sex with um Billy Loomis's dad.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:50

And that's the whole justification. Um and then Stu's Stu just crazy. You know, Stu Stu's like Mickey. Stu is like Mickey, right? Yeah. Um it's just he wants that that that's game. You know, it's just Yeah, so I feel like Stu and Mickey. Mickey probably even more so relates most now to like, I mean, it's sad to say, but like these school shooters and like you know, everything, these killers now, it's like what do they want to do? A lot of them like say they're like copying Columbine, and like Columbine was the the whole, you know, we want the fame and we wanna be known and I mean they really succeeded because it's like everybody like goes, you know, for f for them as like, you know, the the the big, you know, like the number one, and that is what Mickey wants. He wants that notoriety. And um Stu's kind of like, yeah, sure. You know, I'm nuts. Like, I'll I'll I'll go along with this. And like Matthew Lillard is so good, you know. Like, I love Quentin Tarantino, I feel like he's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:16

Yeah, Quentin Tarantino says I don't want to work with Matthew Lillard. Like, he can't act.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:22

Lillard sucks. And I'm like, you know, he's pretty good in Scream. He's just he's crazy, he's over the top, but man, like when he's like his end scenes, oh man, he's like just going nuts and like yo, this guy unhinged already.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:40

When uh when uh Stu gets hit with the foam and Skeet tries to throw it and it hit Stu. That was an improvised line, it like slipped out of its hand, and so Stu just goes like you hit me with a fucking phone!

SPEAKER_02 1:24:54

I think you stabbed me too deep.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:58

Billy Loomis and Stu Mocker, they have such a good dichotomy because they're both unhinged, but I think Skeet Ulrich does a legitimately haunting job in it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:09

He's legitimately more reserved, more internal, like more, more, more menacing, where like Matthew Lillard stew is like the over the the the the top, like wait there's more like you know, he's gonna go And it's so good And they're both un they're both uncomfortable to watch in the best way possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:32

Yeah, Skeet, Skeet Ulrich when they when they asked Billy Loomis, what why are you doing this? And he just said like I think it's scarier when there's no motive. And so like it it does kind of make you wonder, does he does he give the motive of like I believe his line is your slut mother was fucking my father? Does he actually care about that? Because I mean he ended up having sex with someone and had a secret love child. Is that a a part of it? Like, was his father's behavior what caused his like you can really dig deep into Billy Loomis as a a figure of um cinema and kind of break him down, but I kinda like that his first line is I think it's scarier when there is no motive. Cause you know what? Right kinda, kinda it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:19

It is. Um what is it? There's the uh the the Las Vegas shooter never found out. Yeah. Like, you know, still to this day there's no clear cut like why he he he did that, and it's like it's yeah, I mean it's infuriating, I guess, maybe even more more so. I when when you you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:50

Yeah. I I want to end this uh with my my last two thoughts, and I'll let you have your final thoughts because you uh you obviously you love love love scream as your favorite horror film, so I'll let you get the final words here. I just want to bring up two things real fast. One of my favorite callbacks in Scream 2 is how Tori Spelling plays uh plays uh Sydney Prescott in like the made for TV movie. Very funny, because in the first movie she's like, oh god, I'll probably get played by someone like Tori Spelling. And they do actually get Tori Spelling.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:19

They reference her in three angry.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:22

They reference her, I think, in a couple of them, which is very funny. But I want to touch back up on your favorite character for uh uh your boy uh Jamie uh Kennedy. Um so I think one thing I love about Randy is has one of my favorite moments in Scream One, is as I said, I I kind of get a little bit bored of the meta stuff, and I think Scream One and Two masterfully do it without being too like, We're being meta. Get it. Like, they one of my favorite things is when uh he's sitting on the couch watching Jamie Lee Curtis on TV's watching Halloween and he's going, Look out behind you, Jamie. Jamie, look out behind you. And the other killer, of course, comes up behind him, and then they go to the van and they have Sydney and uh Kenny the cameraman going, look out behind you, look out behind you. It's it's so fucking clever and good. And it's like they're on a delay. They're a 30-second delay.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:24

Yep. Yeah, and it's like, oh man, and that adds the attention there. Where did it go?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:30

Where what happened? Yeah, it's so great. But Ricky, we should probably wrap up. Do you have any final thoughts on Scream and the Scream franchise? Do you want Scream 8?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:42

One thing that I was sad about, like like when I was like doing my rankings, it's like, yeah, they they kind of do go downhill. Um, you know, it's like pretty much four breaks it up, you know, because three's the worst f for me, but you know, it's four, five, six, seven, yeah. Six, seven. So but I just love uh one and and two so much, and and four I I really do love two. And like this whole idea is like I do still get excited just seeing what they can do. And I think the possibilities are still there, um if it's put in the right hands. Um so yes, I would definitely get it get excited for for Screamate just to see what they can do. Will it be good? I don't know. But I'm always hopeful. Well uh you know, because it is my my my favorite horror film, and I do I don't know know if it's my favorite series as a whole. Like there there might be better ones, but I do still get excited.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:04

Well, I think that is a fantastic note and a positive note to wrap up on. Thank you for listening to another episode of a Mostly Film podcast. I've been Brandon. With me as always is Ricky, and please go watch some movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:20

Bye bye.