F&*K You Brandy. Ethics, Reputation & The Long-Term Game (Episode 12)

In this episode, Kyle and Kim explore ethics, reputation, and the long-term consequences of the decisions people make when no one is watching.

From business dealings to leadership, coaching, and personal relationships, this conversation examines how integrity is truly tested under pressure, and why short-term wins can create lasting damage.

Because people rarely forget what happened and they never forget how someone made them feel.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And we're back with another episode of Legacy Live. I'm your host, Kyle Hosek.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

And I'm your host, Kim Fitzpatrick.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

You may think today we've completely lost the plot or we've started a completely different podcast, but the title of today's episode is Fuck You Brandy. Okay, are you intrigued? Why would we go with Brandy for the title of an episode? What could we be talking about?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

What could we be talking about? So here's what we want to talk about. We want to, and this is really important in business. This is really important in leadership. It's really important in our co in coaching and the in the coaching practice, which is ethics, right? It's ethics in business, it's ethics in life because they're what we have if we don't have ethics, right? Right? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

The entire economy would shut down if ethics went out the window for every business.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, exactly. And one of the things, too, that we really want to tell like dial in on today is like ethics do not appear when things are they don't appear or they aren't tested, sorry, when things are going well. Ethics are never tested when things are going well, or yeah, or it seems great, or you're doing that thing, and that ethics are tested when no one is watching.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

What do you do when no one's paying?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

When no one's watching, or you know, things are pressure tested, or you know, you've got a certain agreement, now there's more things to gain. You know, there's lots of different things, and that's when they're reimagined, and it really, really is a problem. What have you experienced in your business? I mean, you have so much, you've got 20 plus years of experience with this. Yeah, we can go for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Yeah, I love this. Right? Uh, okay, so I can go back to as pretty much my first business interaction. I needed this goes back to the year 2002. Okay. And I needed an accountant. I was doing all this business. I had these customers and clients, and I had all my paperwork. I was still totally green. Like, I knew I'm supposed to cash checks, I'm supposed to offer a service, but I was like, I don't know when my year end is, I don't know what to do with all this paperwork, and I know I can get in shit if I don't treat this seriously. I took all of my stuff to an accountant, someone whose place I had driven by several times. I didn't know who they were. And I said, How much is this gonna be? Like, I need my personal and my business taxes done. And they said, Well, let us just go through all your stuff. So naively, I handed it all over, and in hindsight, what happened is they got to go through how much money I had at the end of the year and then determine their price to me. And that's happened to me twice. I had somebody else buy a certain percentage of shares in my company pretty early on. It was like a huge amount of money for me because I was gonna do half of my work for another company that that person owned.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So it was a big chunk of change. Like I owed my dad some money that he had lent me to buy my first place. I paid him back within 60 days the full amount, and he was like, Okay, whoa, I was giving you like 10 years to do this. And I went to a lawyer to say, I need you to go through the agreement I'm about to sign with this person. It's like a boilerplate share purchase agreement. In hindsight, it's supposed to cost me about five to five hundred to a thousand bucks. I paid thirty, five hundred bucks um to have that done because that lawyer knew exactly the check I just got because it's in the paperwork. Yeah. And you know, I'm not trying to besmirch lawyers. I know there's one who's close to you, and um, or accountants. I I want to hear a story from you before I keep going here because I have several more. This isn't just about stories, this is about evoking awareness of ethics in your life. Like, who in the last year, who in the last five have you been like, uh, they were a brandy. Yeah. F them because they did something to me that I'm not fond of. Let's hear one of yours.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, well, I, you know, one of my experiences was with, you know, and again, everything's confidential, but I just had you're gonna have clients when you're coaching. I'm a coach and I have so many clients. And for the normal majority, 99.99 have been absolutely a match, but there will be the one-offs that aren't. And, you know, I knew very early on in one of the experiences that I had that I probably should have ended the contract because value-wise, it just didn't align. And I was like, no, no, no, it's gonna be fine. And I almost like efforted my way through. And that was actually a negotiation against my own ethic. And that's something we want to talk about today, too. It's not just about the ethics of other people, but it's like your own ethics, your own values, your own morals. And that's the difference, right? It's like really knowing like, is this in full alignment with the what you represent and you know, your your faith and like what you feel, you know. I have a lot of compassion for a lot of people, and I don't, I don't hate anybody. I don't, I actually don't have the capacity.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I'm getting I'm trying to get her there.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Um, but I I I actually feel like that to me is like the highest level of your consciousness you can get to. The only way that I got through that really tough, unfortunate experience with the one client that I had. Um, because she just wasn't unfortunately a really great person. No, she's not a great person. I'm gonna say that she's not, and it's burn burning her way through a lot of things. And I, to me, that's not, I'll never mention that. I'll never talk about that. I don't need to. But what I did is I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna pray on this because, and maybe that's not gonna relate to some of the people here, and that's okay. That's listening, but it's me. That's an ethic for me. That's a that's a faith for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Let it be said that you would never, of course, you wouldn't talk about this, but this is the topic of the podcast, and we purpose You know, I just don't want you to feel like you're not being you by now talking about it. No, I am me. This is you you've been put in that position with ethics being the topic, and I asked you the question.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

I know, but I feel great. I think this is important to talk about all these things. Okay, and I'm and this is part of this podcast, and you're gonna see this with us where you get to, and I'm not uncomfortable at all. I'm like really, I'm open to that because you there, I'm not naive either. Like, you're not ever gonna have a seamless experience. You know, I have something that I'm walking through right now that, you know, until it's all buttoned up, like I'm not talking about it at all. But you know, it's like sometimes the answer is willing to walk away, take the loss, never work with that person again. Exactly. You know, and like really no, it's like that's one thing that I'm really realizing is there are so many people, and this has come up a lot in the last year, where there are people that want the short-term result. They want the short-term win. I'm gonna quick formula.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

I'm gonna make this from you, and then the rules go out the window.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, the rules go out the window. I win. And it's like you are so short-sighted, you have no clue of what this could have been because we're on, we're different business owners. So it's just really thinking about that, like the difference between the ethics and the morals, and like your morals are your personal beliefs and and and about like what feels right to you. And that's for me the share, the story I shared about the disalignment with someone. I wish that I had acted on my morals, you know, far more than like the ethics, because it didn't cross any lines. Everything was fine and everything was, you know, absolutely okay and safe and good, but it went against who I am. Yeah. And that's a reflection on your character. The people you work with are a reflection on the character you have, the people you hire, the people you surround yourself with. And this is really important because, you know, the cheapest person may not be the best person, the most expensive person may not be the best person. But as you're like, I love the word discernment because as a business owner, as people that are operators, we're founders, we're leaders, we're business owners, like we have to have massive discernment to make sure that there's standards, agreements, and that's another thing. Agreements are so important to have in place to protect you. I think that's one thing I've really learned this year.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah, yeah, because well, this is where you get burned the one time and your whole opinion changes about agreements. Like, I do like that I give most people the benefit of the doubt. Like, I work with a lot of subcontractors, um, people who do obviously different jobs. I still want to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to red tape myself into like double the work. It's pained me as you've shared some pieces of the story of what the ethics have been called into question uh in this dealing you're having now, where like we could be doing so much work with the time you're having to dedicate to try to teach ethics to someone, frankly. Yeah, um, so you know, that part of it sucks. Like, I hate that for you. You know, on the topic of agreements, like the fact that you've even gone there, like obviously money's involved and shit gets super sensitive. As soon as money's on the table, people's perception and their inter what I hate is when a handshake agreement gets reinterpreted when new facts come to life. So I have another story here. Yes, tell me. Last year, agency one, we did what would become a national commercial for a major Canadian company. But I reached out to all the people who, if I was producing a video normally, that wasn't going to be a national commercial, a videographer, I needed a PA, a production assistant, I needed two hands on site to help with lighting and rigging. I reached out to all of those people. I said, What do you need to do for a full day's work with me? I had quotes. Um, and one of the people who gave me a quote, as soon as they got on site and saw the scale and scope of the production, nothing changed. Nothing changed about the amount of money I was being paid necessarily. Their quote changed after the fact. I got their invoice and there was uh 50% markup. I had an email trail where I said, here is the date November 11th, I'm gonna say, where I asked you specifically this amount of hours, this type of work, this deliverable. It is in writing. Yeah, and you you know, you set agreements. I'm like, we have it right here. Yeah, and that person, I think, got their backup and then said they didn't want to work with me ever. And I was like, did ethics just flip the freaking table on me somehow? I was gonna say that to you. You don't say that to me because I caught you doing it. Yep, and that was their defense mechanism, was literally like, I just want this conversation to be over.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Well, yeah, because they can't handle the discomfort of their honestly of what's coming to light, and everything comes to light.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Fuck you, Brandy. They heard her name, it was a guy.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Yeah, but that's where everything comes to light, and it's really where you're gonna deal with these things. Like, if you're a business owner, be prepared for that. If you are, you know, even if I I love a good handshake. I am such a person of commitment and verbal commitment, and this is what we'll do, and this is what you'll do, and we'll figure that out down the road. Over deliver, you know, and it's just so that's what it comes down to, right? It's like ethics and and business in life and in business are the same. It's how you do one thing. I honestly believe is how you do others. Yeah, you know, you you uh and I just really think about this. It's like, how do you want to go to bed at night? How do you want to lay on your head on the pillow pillow? Like, I always love this idea of like, how can I show more poise? How can I show more professionalism? And how can I be squeaky clean? And what I love about being squeaky clean, like in an emoji, if we had our phones up right now, it's like a sponge that has like glitters shining out of it. Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Squeaky clean.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

You go into the light side of the emojis, mine are devil horns, lightning bolt, flames, mine are smiling, laughing, like which now apparently is crying. If you do crying face as a teenager, like they're they're laughing at you. Yeah, and I'm not up to the emoji thing, but now I have like a sponge with sparkles coming out of it because it really does remind me. It's like, how can I be squeaky, squeaky clean in my intention, in how I show up, in you know, like how I present myself, and even when it's hard, you know, even when it's hard, even when it's uncomfortable, when no one's watching is the key thing for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Do you know do you know the show What Would You Do? Have you ever heard of it? Oh, I feel like I have, yeah. So there's it's on ABC, I think, and it's like they stage these scenarios where something's happening in public. Oh, yes, but they're filming the reaction of the public. Like that's ethics in motion.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Um, so it could be like someone comes in and totally verbally abuses someone behind the Starbucks counter, and 10, 12 people all sit there and just go, not my business. Yep. Ethics and morals to me is like okay, they're being mistreated. Yeah, and there's the the star of that show is the person who goes, I don't think I'm on camera right now. I'm gonna stand up and stand up for that person. I think that's a good summary here. For like, and you as a viewer, you're like, Yes, somebody did it. Yes, and they didn't know I was watching this. Yeah, and there you feel so good for that about that person, for that person, yeah, for the girl or boy behind the counter who's 15 years old, and just yeah, and like that's ethics for me. That's the best way. Like, yeah, you gotta pretend there's a camera on you at all times. Would you make the same decision, Brandy? Amazing, not to go back to Brandy here.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I do think too, and I have another great example that I watched, and I think it might have been a commercial, but it was a short film, and it was about two people applying for a job. Okay. Okay. Um, so they shot the first scene in an airplane. There was a a uh a woman that was looked like she was homeless. Okay. She was brought up to first class and sat in first class. So that's just what happened in the commercial. And there was a two people. So the first one showed to a man in a business suit being like, oh, this is disgusting. I have to sit beside this woman, this woman who's home, like he made such a fuss that so much so that the stewardess actually moved him to the back of the plane and then moved someone else up to the front of the plane. And the person that they moved to the front of the plane was a woman. And now these two characters intermix, they were both going for the same job. You wouldn't have known that, right? Because I was watching the commercial. They're both going for the same job. The man that was belligerent, awful, disgusting. You're so disgusting. What are you doing here? The woman that came up and sat beside her put her hand on her on her hand and said, I've been there. I'm so grateful that I get to sit beside you and tell me more about yourself, yourself. And she was just this beautiful connection between the two. So fast forward, they go to the you come to they come the next day, they're at the interview, the CEO of the multi-million dollar company and non-for-profit organization walks in and it's the person that was dressed in the homeless outfit.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

And she did it on purpose. She knew the two candidates were there. It was staged because it was the biggest role they'd have to go into. And the man was like, oh my God, what are you doing here? He blew it by ego and his ethic and his lack of professionalism and the fakeness. And this other woman who did no clue was just a good human and a good steward.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Well, we and there's there's merit in that. Yeah, well, we talked about like the there's a point you gotta just walk away because you can't correct at somebody else's ass. And you're not meant to do that. No matter what you try to do.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

No, you don't know what they've gone through or what the what what's driving them, or if it's a husband in the ear, or like, oh, you deserve this. Look, they they you know, like it's just you know, I I like and there's often where I'll get a proposal and it's like remember you said you're like it's double the price for me than it would be for someone else. Because it's like, oh yeah, this is perfect. She can afford it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's not the point of it. It's like the point of it is the work that you're willing to do. You know, it's like I love investing in amazing people. I love giving great value. I love paying people what they are owed. Like it gives me Because you're an ethical person. Very much so. And I think that's what this comes down to is like, what's your ethic? How are you maintaining yourself? Ethics is really important in the coaching world too. Like, confidentiality is huge, ethics is huge, like it is something we, you know, we do a lot of training on. I'm I'm I love it so much. Ethics is really important to me, and you know, it's just really something that I'm gonna keep leaning in on.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Good. We talked just about the title of this episode. I do have to go back to this because I was pushing for F you Brandy. It was pulling Kim a little out of her comfort zone. I was like, we should pray. Yeah, she said, I pray for Brandy. And I said, Well, I want I want Brandy to get hit by a car. And I think whose side are you on? Are we yeah, like let's talk about this? Oh, sure, I don't want her to die, but like just like one tire over a leg. Like, you know, like just stop in what you're doing, Brandy. Let's take Brandy off the street for a bit. Yeah. And let her think about her ethics in a hospital bed.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

You know? But Kim went to pray for her.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

No, because I think this is why. It's like you never know what someone's walking through. Yeah, yeah. You never know, you never know what the other, you never know what that other situation is on the other end and what it's driven from. And it's like, again, it's like, I love the above-the-line leadership. It's like, how can you take the higher road here? And, you know, yeah, you could, sure, you could, you could, you know, reveal all the things and tell all the, and there's never good in that. I actually feel the most proud when people, you know, mention someone that maybe doesn't isn't in alignment. And I'm like, that is amazing. I love how they connect with you. That is so fantastic. And you move forward because that again is high integrity. It's high composure, it's high compassion. And, you know, that's just like one of the levels of consciousness, too. And it's like, love is the way. And I'm gonna win, we're gonna win Kyle over. Maybe it might be an episode 100.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

I have to walk back getting hit by a car.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

You do love back, you do love people.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

I do, I do a hundred years. You're a big love band. What I'm what I meant by getting hit by a car is it's easy for me to go. I don't I don't identify with you, and I'm done with you now. Yeah, yeah. We're never working together again. I've moved forward. I'm not giving you another brain cell or another second of my thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

And that's the way I move forward in love.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah. And I think it's important because it's hard. Like, I have a hard, I have a hard time just like with my brain cell not take you. Okay, yeah. Can let's just talk about that. Like, I have a hard time being like, I'm never giving another brain. Well, that's not true. There's a hundred brain cells I need to move through because I I am an empath and I do care deeply about people. And it's like, I really appreciate that that you're able to just be able to turn that off. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there. I definitely can feel like, okay, enough's enough here, and it's professional. It's not, this is business. This isn't personal. Like, sorry, like I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

You know what? Now that you just said it's business, it's not personal. Yeah, I think sometimes unethical people get away with massaging that line. Yeah. It's just business. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That does not mean you get to act like an asshole.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

I love that. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

You know, so fucking like this isn't personal. I'm about to screw you over. Yeah. But business means I get to screw you over. And that's like the misnomer here. I agree. That's why I want Brandy to get hit by a car.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

And I'm gonna pray.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

At her bedside.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Oh. Oh, I'm glad we're having this conversation because I think it needs to be talked about. I think, you know, you always have to come back home to is this the right decision? Is this, is this an integrity? Is this the best? Like, and I also like that too. It's like when you're thinking about a situation, it's like, okay, what's the next best action of integrity that I can make for moving forward? What's the best thing that'll protect my reputation, my brand? It aligns in my mission and my vision, and the rest is up to the ether. Our rest is up to the big guy because I just we have to know that. And you that's where I can feel peace in that.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

We talked about long-term implications of running without ethics, and I think we did a good job of not only telling the stories, but like, do you think if that accountant thought for a second that 24 years later I would be filming a podcast and can think of the look on his face handing me the invoice that he made up? That's talk about long-term implications. Oh, yeah. I have not forgotten about that. I still drive by the same place, it is still there, and I give it the finger when I drive by.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yeah. When I remember, and that's energy. Yeah, it's energy, and it's really important to be like I just said I'm easy at letting things go and moving on.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Vindictive. Vindictive.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

So it is taking up some of your brain cells.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Don't believe anything I say because I don't know where I land on it. We're pulling her to the dark side.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

You know, like it is, it's ethics is the decisions you. Make when no one's watching you, and it's just really knowing like short-term wins would never ever ever result in the long term. This is the long-term game, and this is about relationships, this is about connection, this is about reputation, and that trumps it's priceless. It is priceless.