The Story Part 2 (Episode 17)

Most businesses believe great marketing creates great brands. We believe the opposite.

In Part 2 of The Story, Kyle and Kim explore why storytelling can only amplify what's already true. Using companies like Dyson as an example, they unpack why relentless innovation, exceptional products, and authentic leadership always come before marketing.

The conversation also explores the role of vulnerability in leadership, why showing your process builds trust, and how the strongest brands create loyal communities by standing for something meaningful.

If you're an entrepreneur, leader, or anyone building a personal brand, this episode will challenge the way you think about business, branding, and legacy.

Because in the end, you can't story your way out of a bad product.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's Legacy Live. I'm your host, Kyle Hosser.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And I'm your host, Kim Fitzpatrick.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

We are back for part two of the story.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

You cannot story your way out of a bad product. Let's start with.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Wholeheartedly, I like that. And I think you know, we touched on maybe fumbling the story a little in part one, but yeah, let's talk about trying to story your way out of a bad product and how important a good product is always and forever. Yes. Right? Is that just what it boils down to?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

I think so. And also, like, let's define what a good product is. Like, what are products that people stay for? Like, you have built so helped so many companies build businesses, marketing, brand 25 years. Like, what are some, what would you say, like maybe top three things people need to be really thinking about when they're like developing a product, marketing a product, bringing it to market?

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Uh, I'm not gonna talk about my client products because I don't want to leave anyone out, but I'll talk about brands that I've I think I've made this point before on the podcast, or it's part of my book, actually, is just because a product already exists doesn't mean you can't make it better.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

And that's so there's so many examples of that. My favorite is James Dyson, the Dyson vacuum. Yep. A vacuum have been around forever and it sucks dirt up off the floor, ultimately. He is my god for looking at something, and then he Dyson owns vacuums now, literally owns vacuums and hair supply, I would say. Well, but isn't that the weirdest? Uh you know, that's just making products better at everyone. Innovating a product. Do you know that the Dyson vacuum started as a wheelbarrow? I that is where he went first. He said, I can make a better wheelbarrow. So he put remember the first Dyson ball vacuum? Yes. The wheelbarrow had that ball under it, so there was no legs. Oh, yes, so you could move left, right, forward, backward. And then um, he just shifted to the vacuum. Um, and but that you know, he's wired that way, he thinks different than everybody. But you know what didn't scare him? He didn't go, Hoover is the big name in vacuums. I could never take them on. He went, as long as I do this better, yeah, and we have a better product, we will win. And he did. Yeah, and now like Shark and these other everyone's trying to look like a Dyson. Um, we tried some other brand that had like TikTok and Instagram real popularity. They're not the same. No, like he nailed something there.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Okay, so another example I have, and I I've shared this before, but it was the concept that uh Jamie and his brother Mike brought to Canada, which was Barkinfits, right? It's that doggy boutique.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Well, they didn't bring to Canada, they thought of it. They thought of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

No, you're right. They were it, they were Barkinfits, they were at the end of a dock, and they're like, you know what? There is not a high-end, like whole Renfrew Nordstrom for dogs. Love that. And we're gonna make and they had like Burberry fur coat, like they had Burberry coats, they had like doggy biscuits, you name it. But one of the things that they did that was unique to anybody else, and now most dog stores you go into, you'll see the color blocking, you'll see all the things. They started that, and people were like, that is such a good idea. We are going to edify that, copy that, do that. And I think that's so fantastic. And they're like, But they didn't get stopped by super pet and pet value and no, they wanted to, again, it goes back down to exactly what you just said, which is about Dyson. They wanted to make it better. And I think that's the thing as business owners, as anything, even if you're running a mastermind, even if you're running community groups, even if you are an consultant, even if you are an executive leadership coach, how can you make your model, your framework, your questions, your craft you better? Like it comes down to you leading you to make the story actually make sense. And I'll say this, and I I this may be bold and it actually might annoy the shit out of people because I'm serious. But it's like when you outsource your own authenticity to the AI, to the all, and I love a, I love support. I love team, I love all of those things. But when you outsource your final say, your imprint on it, you will lose the authenticity of your company. I believe that. Like I remember when I had a, you know, working in my wellness world, I had a an upline who like was like, oh, my assistant runs all my things. She runs all my groups, she answers all my messages. I don't have any face-to-client interaction. And what happened was she became so dissonant. There was so much dissonance in what I'm sharing, what I'm doing, because when you are not in practice of actually, and this is where we talked about service, there is a brand and a story, but there's service behind that. You literally will become a different person in DNA when you're serving and you're in the moment and you're practicing and you're getting your reps in and you're sharing the story and you're showing up authentically. Like that matters. And if you lose that, if you lose that connection, it is so easy to just not care.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

And in that business, the product is you, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

I this is like there's a lot of businesses where you're the product. So are you the Dyson? Are you the Hoover? Yeah. Or are you just sucking and you're not a vacuum?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

See what I did there. Right. But if I go back to Dyson, there's no like story other than holy cow, have you tried this vacuum? It is so good.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Do you remember the animal? Did you ever get the animal? I love the animal. Yeah. It was the best vacuum.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

It's incredible. So let's talk about product and story.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

And an example, like, so we've started Legacy League.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

And I'm proud because we have an entrepreneur coming in to talk to our sort of mastermind members later next month, about a month from now, who I came to met meet through Revenue Brand. We're both entrepreneurs, and she came to an event that I had. And like her story is ridiculously good. But at on paper, you could see where it would be a story you might want to hide.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

And she has owned this so much that like she's on speaking tours as much as she is on popping popcorn now. This is Emily O'Brien from Comeback Snacks. Shout out to Emily. Um, she got caught smuggling drugs through Pearson Airport, I think in the mid-201s. Yep. And went to jail. Went to jail and kept she was an entrepreneur at heart, I guess, because they were making popcorn in prison. That was part of what you could like spend your loonies and tunies on in there. And the women in prison with her um were seasoning popcorn in different ways, and she looked at it and was like, Orville Redenbacher does popcorn, Colonels does pop. There's all kinds, and I can do this better. And I'm gonna call this Comeback Snacks, and I'm gonna lean right into the fact like her logo is her in a jail costume. Like, do you see how we talked about in the last episode someone avoiding story where they're like, I don't know whether this fits in the perfect way. Yeah, there's a way that it can fit perfectly no matter what it is, and Comeback Snacks is the best example I have for that. And I can't wait to like we get to interview her. Normally, when I see her, it's she she's telling her story, but I have I can already think of 10 questions that I want answered from a business perspective. Like, what was step three? Now you've got your story, you've got your product. What was the next thing you did to unite them and and take that to the world? I can't wait to hear from her.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

And she's in every store. Like, I was in Indigo yesterday and was like, Oh my gosh, look at this comeback snacks. I like completely did up.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

We had seen her for the first time come back snacks at the Pearl Hotel over here. And I said, Hey, that's right, she's coming to my thing, and this goes back to last year. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

I think that that's so incredible. And I think one of the things as well that's so important too is when it comes down to a product, a lot of people think it needs to be something that's physical. Yeah, that's true. And I want to say too, like I've built masterminds. We have new ones starting called the Legacy League. It's an executive leadership mastermind, which I'm super excited about. The caliber of the humans that are in that community. I really believe that live events and community and connectedness. I will share this, and I think this is important to note. So I ran a mastermind for a long time, a year and a half, and we took a break in between the um the league forming of the league. Because there's stuff like a storming, norming, like we had to like really perfect it, if you will, to really like make sure we wanted to land this. But we've done like eight weeks without that group. I've noticed my I want to say like my like enthusiasm, my connection. I thrive in being in community and like challenging each other and following up with them and helping people. Like, I'm like, get me out June 2nd, like get me in the ring. Like I am like like a dog with a bone right now to be like, yeah, let's go. Because I know I'm about to turn it on because I need that. And that's the problem.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Like you said, it doesn't have to be like it or I touch it or I prick it.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

You're now selling mugs, which I we did do. But you know, like it's like I love that. But it's like, no, it's it's a really is about like service is a product. Yeah, service is a product, service and offer is a product, right? Like your what you know and what you can teach, what only you can teach is a product, and I will die on this hill. When you remove yourself out of the daily work that allows you to become refined in your craft, you will experience cognitive dissonance in how you show up. And this is what I mean by that. If you are trying to promote a journal that you don't write in, right. Good luck. It will show. And you can only perform for so long if you're like, I'm so godly, and then you're like slashing tires over here.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

All I have to do is market it and other people will buy it. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

It's not, you know, and that's as you see this, right? Where you've got million people with million dollar or sorry, million fans, and they are not producing actual sales. Whereas you've got a small creator account that's got 4,000 followers that are loyal, that are believable, that are like, I see you, I know you. Like there is merit in that. And I we want to be that like the literally this lighthouse for you that is like shining this light on you, being like, you may be in all these tugboats right now, like trying to find your way, but like you have the light inside of you, you have the idea, you need to just make a decision, go for it boldly with reckless abandon, and we'll help you if you need it. Like, get in the league. But like, you know, like it's so important to be thinking about that. And there is a danger in staying safe in not being visible and not sharing the idea and not being brave to tie this.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Keeping it a secret, a story, yeah. And we talked about writing in your own journal. If you're marketing a journal, here's another like, let's go negative again and talk about where this backfires. A lot of listeners have seen or heard of Fire Festival.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Oh, yes. Tell Okay, because I I I am, I think I live under a rock. I'm I'm like I called Kyle Worldly today about the McDonald's thing. He's like, ah, thanks for the worldly. But like I like I'm going there. Okay. I love my burgers.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

There's definitely there, you know, I don't think I consume, I like to stay on top of pop culture.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

So I love that because you teach me that, and I will say that. I will say that. Like, proximity's power, Kyle, with how much you know. And I I do want to just I I want to say this before, and I don't mean to interrupt you, but like I am a self-help junkie, and one of the things that you've opened my world to, like, I like I love Brendan Bouchard, Wayne Dyer, Robin Sharp. I love them. They're the greats. But what I'm learning is that what got me here won't get me to where we're going. I have to critically think. I have to be in the mind of like the aviator nation founders. Like, I love that you're like homework, because that's helpful. And this is, you need a partner andor a community that is challenging you to not be cozy and comfy and things that make you feel good, but actually stretch you to be like, go learn Canva.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yeah. I got I gotta call out another podcast positively here. How I built this is my oh, yes, I love that. And that, you know, I talk about Dyson's.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

That's a great resource. How I built this. That's a great resource.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Dyson's an episode, AV itternation's an episode. I I think there's like 400 episodes.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

I loved that. And I did. I remember I was in Arizona and I was like, okay, this is okay. I'm I'm expanding my and and if you're going to be that founder, you're going to be that person that's like really being able to like get in there. You need to be able to think creatively in this.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

It's funny because we're talking out of both sides of our mouths a little bit when we're talking about consuming. Sure. This is very different. I want to make sure we're clear.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Educational though, I think.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

When I watch the Firefest documentary, I'm watching it as an advertising agency. I'm watching it as a potential attendee. Like I like live music. Yep. I'm watching it. I'll go with you.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Is it a real thing though?

SPEAKER_02 15:04

No. Do they sell oak? Not yet. We're not going. We're not. But I like I love watching. I watched like Brandy Hellville, which is a documentary about another brand. Like, because I'm in that space. It's Hellville because so much went wrong behind the scenes. Do you know Brandy Melville?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

I know Brandy Melville.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah. Oh, they're on Queen Street. I waited in a line for two hours.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Guys, this is Brandy Melville. Look at this.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Look at this. Brandy Melville.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

See? So that content. Crazy. That's educational to me. I'm not just sitting there watching like people doing dance routines on TikTok. Yeah, I get that. There's consumption that's conspicuous consumption and smart and intelligent and will advance your business. Like listening to a good podcast. Um, Fire Festival is a documentary. I bring these things to Kim when I'm like, like I'm trying to get with the program. Give our list. No, I think we need the listeners and anyone watching this. It's always handy to have a visual that you can be like, oh yeah, that example. Yeah. And I like working from examples or analogies, and that's just how my brain functions. Firefest is the perfect example of all story, contrived, manufactured, and no product whatsoever. Like the guy went to jail.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

And not in a way you were can recover and start making popcorn and come out of and turn into a story. You like you're in there for all the wrong reasons, which was manufacturing a story and becoming a fraud to market a product that didn't exist. Like Caitlin Jenner, Jenner, one of the Jenners. Is Caitlin the dad who's a girl now? Yes. Who are the kids? Kylie and Kim Kardashian. Yeah, they were all on a buck. The marketing was insane for Fire Festival. It's a documentary, it's on Netflix. It's a few years old now. Yeah, yeah. Five, maybe ten. Um, definitely worth checking out for like a don't do that. Like you cannot manufacture a story if there's no product there. And always start with yeah, start with product, weave your story into it, no matter how small or how big or how you may struggle to think it fits in. And I I was I've said this a few times about having this idea for an ACDC book in my head that I was like, that's ridiculous. Why would I ever do that? But that I'm passionate about it, and it's a product, and that's the story, and it was my story, and it's small, it's so niche that some people would be like, Well, I'm not reading that, that doesn't matter. But it's found its audience of the ACDC fans and people who care about business. That's a great book. And then one piece of tinfoil, you know, doesn't need to be a giant ball.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

You know, it's interesting when you say that, and and I would love your feedback. Like, tag us on your stories, uh share with us. What's your story? Like, yeah, like share that with us. Like, share the the hiccups and the the fears and the doubts, and like let's like get through that because when you can see the other side, when you can see, okay, this is worth sharing, this is worth pursuing, this is worth making a decision that I'm going to be bold. And I believe it's brave. It's so brave to be like, I'm putting myself out here to figure this out. I need this in my life, I'm on it. Let's go. Like, that is a decision, you know. And I would say this too like Lumina was a decision, and I'm so grateful. I rem I'll never forget sitting in your office, and we were just, I was like literally like on paper. I was like, okay, Kyle, like this is a pipe dream, but I think I honestly think that we can do this, and we've been a little bit quiet in our promotion of Lumina and what we're doing until we're accredited, just based on like what we're legally allowed to do until we're accredited.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

There's a story there.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Dude, the the tap is in August when we're accredited because I believe we believe so deeply in the work. Like those 25 students are literally changing 26. It's literally changing the DNA of who they are, how they show up, how they serve, and that it came from an idea. It came from how do we make how do we complement the International Coaching Federation? How do we bring our flair? How do we build in a business? Yes, because business training is huge. We're gonna be doing continuing educations that anyone can be a part of. Like, I'm excited about it. And it's like we're sort of the Dyson moment there. We're in a holding pattern of it right now. We're in a holding pattern right now, but like we will not be in a holding pattern in eight weeks.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Like, but this was your this is your James Dyson moment. You went through coach education to become a PCC coach. You're right, and you got to look at what was out there, and you said this can be done better. This is the perfect example.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And I will tell you this too like the the next level of certification scared me.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Because and I want to share this, and I think this is important because I think it's like you can't story yourself out of a bad product, but you can story yourself into a great mission and business, yeah. And business, you can. And when I think about like that mastery, and I want to implore all business owners to think about that. What are you most excited about with your business? What are you willing to do, and what are you not willing to do? What are you avoiding that you know would move the needle? Maybe that's face to camera. Maybe it's being clunky.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Telling your story. That's what face to camera is, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:23

And and yapping. You know, do you want to know something? There yapping is like the thing right now. I've been yapping for four years.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I'm like, well, like, why did I stop it?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

You know what I mean? Because it's like, is that ego? Is that like, oh, it's just I'm tired at the end of the day. Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_02 21:42

But it's like your story out.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Don't overthink your content. You have a voice, you matter.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Like it is Just be careful not to take a tiny bite of your burger. That's all we will say. Cause it can backfire on you.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

I mean, take a whole bite. You're gonna Like invest if you're gonna bite it, like get a mental.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

You already believe in your product, you're not a disconnected CEO, so you take a freaking bite out of it. Yeah, and you go for it and you run with it.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Like and you run with it.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Did you say you bun with it? Oh, that would have been funny.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Bun with it. You know, one thing I remember, and I like again, this is so funny, right? And here I want to share this. I think this is important. Do you remember when I remember when we had a couple partners leave us, right? We did, and that was hard. Like that was an ego, that was an ego blow.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

It was so fresh in the process, though. To me, I was like, Well, were they ever really here?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Oh, but for me, it's like that's when I will tell you this. Your business will expose the deepest weaknesses of you. I'm just saying it.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

And I feel bad for the people listening who didn't see your facial expression.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

I literally had like abandonment. I'm like, I'm in abandoned. And then I realized God is like, and I don't mean to bring in faith, but I mean that like when one door closes, a million doors open. And I will share this, and I think this is important from a story because I remember every single leader that decided to enroll with cohort one. We've got cohort two starting in January. I got on a call with them. You did too. You came on a couple of mine for sure. But like I remember telling um one of our cohort members, and this was right after one of our people had bowed out. And again, I have honor and respect and compassion. Like that wasn't, it wasn't for her. I love that. I love when someone is discerned to know, hey, I'm supporting you. This isn't for me. I'm gonna go do my own thing. Like there's zero animosity. But I remember and I share this because it's like you can't story yourself out of a bad product, but you can story yourself into something that you believe in. And I remember getting on the call, and I was like a little shell, and I was kind of hunched down, and I was sharing this story, and I was like, okay, so this is what we want to do. And like, gosh, I know you're looking at IPAC and all these other amazing competitors. Like, we are a small fish in a really big pond. And I was like, but I believe in it, and I know that we're gonna do so. I know the guest experts, I know what we're doing. Like, I, you know, and again, it was like, I know these things, and I remember, I'll never, I will never forget this. It was Angie, shout out to Angie. She said, Kim, I've followed you for a really long time. I know you, I love you. She's like, I've never seen you so small. And I was like, it's because I know this is gonna be so big, and I'm scared. And I believe that if you aren't a little scared with your idea.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Your one piece of tinfoil.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Your one piece of tinfoil, like, and you're bold and asking for like, yeah, this is what I'm doing. It's either for you or it's not. Like she said to me, Kim, I don't care if you've built this curriculum on post-it notes. And this is a superintendent, knows her stuff, phenomenal, like informs curriculum, and we I really believe that we're like blowing it out of the water. And and and imagine I was my ego got in the way. Imagine, imagine I just threw it to the wind. It's not gonna work. And I'll never forget this. You said to me, Kim, we're opening our incorporation September 1st. And I remember opening the letter. Remember, I sent you that picture of it. I was like, look, Kyle, this is real. And I remember not sharing that story on social media for fear of being seen small.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Really?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

And I wish I did because that's part I might share it now. I might tell. I might just be like, okay, we're starting from scratch. But like, share the smallness. It's not for likes, it's not for virality, it's for the story that people can know, like, and trust. And you cannot story yourself out of a bad product, but you can story yourself into something that you believe in with your full body in your belly, in your soul. You are doing it. Authenticity is everything.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah. And what you're saying there is like this is the Dyson of ICF coach education, where we're you know, if you build focus on the product, what's not happening here is we're not like, how do we market the hell out of something that isn't there? This is you said we've been a little quiet. Well, you know why we're quiet? Because we're making the product insane, literally, the best it can be, and then we're gonna be loud, then we will share the story.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

We will, yeah, and I'm excited about it, and I'm proud of that. And I think that's the thing like learn to amplify your voice, and people love brands that they can be a part of and they can witness your start, the community and the work that goes in. Yeah, don't be afraid of showing the behind the scenes, don't be afraid of showing the mishaps, don't be afraid of showing the real background, what's behind you right now?

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Like, because that's where I struggle sometimes. I'm like, yeah, no one wants to see this, but then I go on and it's my best performing yakity yak content.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

I remember when I like would used to share, like, I'm like, who wants to see my breakfast? You know what I mean? Where I'm like, because I believe, and again, this is all ties into coaching and loving leading yourself. Like, I believe that fuel is important and all the things like that all compounds, right? And it's like, oh, people do care, like that you're reminding them to fuel the body or whatever that is. Like, people do care, and the right people will care. And I I'd love to share this last little bit as we like think about the story. It's like, and especially when you show up on social media, it's like there's these two camps one is naive vulnerability, and one is awake vulnerability. This is a Danielle Laporte, and I love her so much. Like, she's an incredible guru. And she talks about this idea naive vulnerability in marketing and brand and small business and building anything is I'm gonna show up, everyone's gonna love me. This is amazing. I've got the product, it's so aesthetic. I'm so great. That's naive vulnerability. Awake vulnerability, and this is where I'd love to invite you listening to live. Awake vulnerability is not everyone's gonna agree. Not everyone's gonna love it. Some people are gonna freaking love it. They're gonna be your biggest advocate and champions, and like you need to be a part of this. They're gonna be the ones that are rallying the community, coming on the retreat, doing the things because they believe in the awake vulnerability of like you are putting your line in the sand, saying, I stand for something in a world that doesn't stand for a lot for fear of judgment. Stand for something. Do it, stand for something, stand for the brand, stand for the authenticity, stand for what you want to bring to the world because your your assignment, it like who benefits from you playing small? No one.