Funnel Cake (Episode 21)

Funnels, lead magnets, email sequences, automations. When did building a business get so complicated? Kyle and Kim question whether entrepreneurs are spending more time learning how to sell than improving what they’re actually selling, and why no amount of marketing can replace having something people genuinely want.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's Legacy Live. We are back with another episode. I'm your host, Kyle Hosik.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

And I'm your host, Kim Fitzpatrick.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Today we're going to the fair.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

We are.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

We're going Canada's Wonderland or six flags for you American listeners to get funnel cakes.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

We're going for funnel cakes.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

And we're back. We're not actually leaving the studio. We're just going to talk about funnels. Have you heard about funnels? Because I have.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

This is Kyle's favorite word.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

He's at the same time, my least favorite word.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

He's actually, I've had to start saying the word tunnel so that I don't say funnel.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Um, because it is, it's a huge the worst F word in the marketing business.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

And I think that that's an important distinction for Kyle to have such a passion about this and why I'm excited about this topic today, because that has been one of the bone of contentions I've had. I think I've talked to you about for a year and a half, being like, but I don't have this, and I don't, and we have funnels to a certain extent, but it's always been something that I'm like, oh, once we have this, then this will happen. So it's always this, like, but you know, let me buy this course to learn this thing, but it never teaches me the one thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

So then I'm like this, and then I'm in all these circles of like, I don't have the thing, but well, because you need a funnel, you need an upsell, you need a down sell, you need a lead gen system. Like what I hate about uh this side of marketing is that the more mystified you are kept, the more money you will spend trying to demystify and learn. And what we want to talk about today, and I think we've done a topic about you know the story and the product. Like, if you have a great product, people are gonna funnel to you to get it without you building any mysterious way for them to find you. And uh, and if you have a shit product, you can spend all the money you want on courses and learning and building systems. It's this thing like while you sleep, you could have 50 new people funnel into your business. It's not true. I just fundamentally not true.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

I mean, if you have a great reel pop-off and you've got a many channel.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

That's not a funnel, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

That's another way that you can directly have like I just saw a reel yesterday where this awesome guy, he was like, I just had 13,000 people click on my lead magnet, which was through his menu chat. Wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 2:32

What's a lead magnet?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

So that would be like a freebie, for example, that's like, hey, here's the not, and not everyone needs a freebie.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

But where do you go to get the freebie?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Well, you go to the website and you get on the email list and right.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

And that freebie is a product that he or she produced that might be good, but oftentimes it they're not good.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Right. I remember, and I I like I would always, if I was ever to do like I did a lot of those, right? A lot of freebies, a lot of like monthly reflection sheets and things like that. And I loved those because those had value, but I would say like they didn't necessarily lead to the next thing that I was selling to them all the time. It didn't, you know, whether that's good or bad. That could be a faux pas in the marketing world, um, depending on who you ask, right? But it's just like I think one of the bones that we want to talk about here is when you have a product that sells, that is worth selling, that you're proud of, that makes impact, that moves the needle, that's a quality product. And often you're the you're the product. So you know, for example, like what we sell, a lot of that is like we become that product. It's not something you can kind of like carbon copy and paste, et cetera. Um, but you know, yeah, yeah. Right? But like what does that what does that all look like for you? And I think this is we just want to open up the conversation today and the dialogue today on A, what are you super proud of in your business? B, what do you have as a way of people can either find you, get a hold of you, uh, where are they going when they find you? You know, what does that look like? And what are you confused about? Because if you feel confused, you know, then and we talk about this on our legacy league call. But one thing that really stuck out to me in the last couple weeks, and we're talking about brand and brand story and website and marketing and visibility, is is your website actually functioning where when people come in, they are actually clicking on the right things that lead to you.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

That is something that unless you have someone that's a connect that connects all the things to all the things, you might not you might be putting out tons of content and none of it's working.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

You you should be able to sell a product with a website and a contact button and a buy now button. Yeah, and that could be your entire system.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

That was my entire system for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

There's nothing wrong with that, you're not missing something. And I think this episode also is about how much time do you have in a day? And if you took if say you were gonna work 12 hours today on your business and you took six to think about your systems and your funnels, and six to think about your product, I think you're making a mistake. Because if you can take 10 to focus on the product and your actual marketing strategy, and then maybe two for the customer journey that doesn't include the word funnel, like there's again, remove the mystery of like funnel. I picture like funnel cloud, like Wizard of Oz, like where it's smoke and mirrors, it's a guy behind a curtain selling you uh a system that's gonna revolutionize and change your life. Like I remember infomercials when I was a kid, like there's a guy Tom Vu who was like, Come to my seminar, and you remember those infomercials? This is there's a bunch of them. Like, I think even maybe Tony Robbins had an infomercial at one point for his cassettes, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Um, I definitely bought those.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

I think I still have them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

But uh, but like I just that I think that's the start of it, where it's like I have a magic bean that I'm gonna sell you that's gonna solve all of your business woes. And that magic bean today is a funnel, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

And one of the things that's so important about this, and and I wonder if this will be helpful for any of you that are listening to this, is the more you know you and the product you have and the offer you have, when uh when you're going into other people's um worlds and being taught, one thing to be discerning of is are you learning their method? Are you learning from their lived experience? Are you learning from their examples that you can then maybe say, oh, one of those actually really applies to this business over here that was worth that investment? It doesn't mean that, because I've worked with clients before that have just caught carbon-copied what other people have done and they're like, I've made and made zero sales. There will be some that those marketers will highlight that says, look at this, they turned this, they used this thing, and now it's ten thousand dollars. I remember when I built a beautiful mastermind and I had a great somebody helping. I remember they actually said, look what happened with my coaching, this built this amount of income from this mastermind. I said, Hold on, no, no, no. That was 10 years of me nurturing and building. And like I knew when I launched my Awakener Clarity Mastermind, it was the best product.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

It was, it was the best mastermind. I loved it. I'm so proud of that. I still so proud of that, and so much of it has come in through my life and in our retreats. But that wasn't because of the person that maybe helped with a few things. That was because of what you put your heart and soul into developing. So for to be able to say, oh no, if you do this, you'll build this. No, I had been building that for 10 years. Yeah, and that's it. I want you to hear that because that doesn't mean you can't have that. Doesn't mean you can't have a $200,000 launch. You can. Doesn't mean you can't have a $1 million launch, but that doesn't mean that that'll happen today. That might happen in five years because of the seed you're sowing today. So just being aware of that. And so, what are you doing today? So, to your point of like, you got 10 hours in a day, you're working on your business, like that's that shit lights me right up. Like, what are you actually doing?

SPEAKER_02 8:19

I love that too.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 8:20

It's easy, it's easy to look at us and be like, but you guys have a mastermind. You're trying to tell people what to do. And it's like, yeah, we are, yeah, but we're we are actually demystifying the mystified.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Like, that's the point of why we're doing the phone being like, you need to set it at this setting.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and so I'm proud of that. I know that I don't like the side that it could get kind of bunked in with all the the people who are selling the way I'm saying I don't like. Right. Because truthfully, on those calls, we're like, ignore this and focus on this. Yeah. Ignore, you know, clear the clutter, take get clarity, shut down the volume on the what's noise, turn up the volume on what's valuable for your business from our experience. So I love that part. But like, speak to, I know there was a funnel that you were like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at this funnel just to see what the experience is like. And we won't say whose funnel it is, or but talk about like that journey through the funnel is bumpy, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:23

I never want to ever like this is never putting down anyone else, you know, at all. This is just what I what resonates with me and what doesn't. And I think that's always just what is important, right? To celebrate what everyone's doing because they're super successful and I love that. Love them as a person. I love what they're doing. But what as I were was I walked through the funnel and I did, I said, hey, I'm just gonna test this out. The first thing was for me, and this is important, right? Like it, I think what you said was really key. Like, is it clear of this is what you're gonna buy, this is what you're gonna get? Where I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so confused because there's so many, I don't know how and what I'm gonna buy in and how to get to the buying. So when I finally was like, okay, I'm gonna get to this one thing and buy this one thing, then it was like, oh, but you then can buy four other things. And then I was like, but where's the thing that I thought I was gonna get? Where's like I was like, I'm so confused right now. Now that being said, that works for some because it's that, it's that I don't know whether that aligns for you, those are that are listening with that. That might not stress you, that might jazz you up. That's what we're trying to say to you. Perfect. If that jazzes you up, that's your style. If it doesn't, that's your style.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

So as you're learning from others, be discerning. Okay, I love that. Ooh, that okay, I'm gonna take this one little thing. You know, there was the the one person that really helped me launch my, I will forever be grateful because there's such great value of what I learned from that. Everyone, you can learn from something from every person. It's just making sure that you're not making you're not making yourself that person. You have to stay completely solid. So as I was going through, getting back to the question, as I was going through the parts of the funnel, like I've literally had 70 emails.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

70 emails in three weeks.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

In three weeks, seven. But that's been their chat GPT with to the green arrow and the red thing, and and I'm like, like not uh poo-pooing anything or disclaiming anything. That's not my jam.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Well, I now it's noise. Poo-pooing green arrows and red arrows and chat GPT dumped into an email. If you send me that, you've lost me.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, I'm lost. And I'm like, nope. And yeah, you got the money, and that's how you've made the millions because you've got you got people in at a low price and you volumize that. Yeah, to me, that's not what I align with or what you align with or what we align with. That's not saying that you can't and we're judging you at all, but just the the the the point of this is like God be discerning in a noisy world. Yeah, well, and know yourself, so you know what you want to put out there.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Exactly. This is about the mystification where it's like, oh, I think I think I need to do this because I think that's what's working for other people. And it's okay to go, I'm not doing that. I'm putting my foot down, and that's one what line I won't cross in my marketing. And just remember this episode where it's okay to have a buy now button and focus solely on your product, and the people will find you that need to find you.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And then the other thing we'd say is what are they getting from the delivery?

SPEAKER_02 12:19

What's the delivery? Well, user experience on your website.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

What's the user experience? What's the client experience?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Super important.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yeah. You know, if you think about this too, like what who was the mentor that you really loved that you bought into? What was your experience with that? Because if you loved it and and you want to create something like that, that's amazing. But if you didn't, it's like, oh, that's interesting. I learned a lot from that. Okay, perfect. So this sometimes I invest, I remember once I invested $30,000 into a mastermind, got a little bit out of it at the beginning, and then I realized halfway through, I'm like, oh, this really isn't my right. It was, but I didn't, you know, yes, that's a lot of money, and that was it, it felt irresponsible laughter because I did, you know, like, but now I'm like, that's okay. It every that had it had a reason. It was an experience. I'm still really celebrating. It's there's no animosity. I didn't think that that person wasn't worth that.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

I just realized, oh, this isn't for me. So again, it comes back to when you're being taught that or you're thinking, I need this before I can be successful. I want you to hear what Kyle just said. Like we literally did. We sold out of our mastermind, which is small and intimate. We're not wanting it to be massive because it's just a different container. We had a buy now page signed up. Join now. Join now.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

It's as easy as that.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

And there's no web cells, it's really simple.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

And arguably, our our mastermind was so new that we were having email deliverability problems because our domain was brand new. It had no reputation. So not only were we not flooding inboxes with 70 emails in three weeks, we couldn't email people. And we had to use a Gmail account and say, hey, yeah, welcome. Yeah. This, you're no, maybe once a week. Sorry, Matt.

unknown 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Once a week, we're gonna send you an email that says, here's the topic for tomorrow. Bring your questions, and hopefully, you completed your homework. And that's it. That's it. And it's hands off. And I'm proud of the discernment to go, to not go, okay, if we send 10 more emails, we can sell 10 more slots. This isn't about selling slots. This is about every Tuesday, our hour-long product is the best thing it can be because the time we had to dedicate to that hour was spent on the product only. Yeah, only, never the system, never the funnel. Making sure the customers we do have say, Holy shit, for every hundred I spend there, I get 200 instantly in what I take away and what I can sell. Yeah. That's that's a trade I would do every day. I would drive to Barrie, Ontario to make a hundred bucks just to hand someone a hundred.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's really what's important is having that discernment. So when we talk about the fact that quality marketing is not a trick, what do you really what are like if you were to leave leave everybody listening with like maybe three key takeaways when you think about quality marketing? Kyle has been in in brand marketing, sales over 25 years.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

So if you were to give like three tangible, like if we were gonna riff for the next few minutes on like three things you can like literally picture a ribbone, you're like nine.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

No. Um well the first uh and and this is something we our first league call was on personal brand and the the tether that connects your personal brand to the brand story of your business. I think your visibility everywhere is key to your marketing. But I also use this analogy of, and I want this to be its own episode in the future, so we promise it will if you feel like we cut this off short, but like everyone knows what a market is. You go there and you shop. Use a farmer's market, for example. There'll be 20 stalls. There's a reason you were attracted to walk up to one, it could be because you wanted corn, and that's the one with the corn. That's easy marketing path. The customer's already looking for this product. But there might be one booth where the guy has or the girl farmer has dragon fruit. You're like, I never even tried this. Are you intrigued? What brought what were they saying, or how did they design their booth that got you into their orbit to check it out and hear their pitch? That's a market. And as soon as I add ing to the end of market, people get confused. Like marketing seems like a very impossible journey to some people because it can be confusing if you don't break it down to why is someone gonna choose you over something else, some person, some product. And as long as you keep that at the forefront, you know, there are companies that do it well. We just in our our two podcasts three, five ago, talking about brand story, like that whole McDonald's and the Burger King thing, like they've been at each other's throats for years, right? And then there's like one vulnerability on the McDonald's side, and the Burger King guy jumped on it and turned it into a marketing campaign. So I think it's nimbleness, it's awareness, it's always paying attention to your competition. Like that's more important than your funnel. And you may look at your competition and go, they're using a funnel, so I need one, but their funnel might be the one that's garbage and their product is also garbage, and you only think they're doing two million bucks a year because they're telling you they are.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

They might then might not sell a thing, and you're all in your head going, I think I should do what they're doing, and they're using Chat GBT to send 40 emails a week. Yeah, you could be wrong, and it might be keeping up with the Joneses thing where your pro just make your product better, keep talking in your voice, and think of one new way to reach that new audience this week that you maybe haven't tried.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, I love that. And one thing to add to that too is just know like your social media is your storefront. Yeah. So if you really are wanting to get more visible, get your reps in there. Yeah, practice there, get in your stories, sell the product, you know. Try and sell one thing a day.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

You're never gonna outfunnel yourself.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

And this is another, okay, this is another podcast we promise. It's sales. Sales is amazing. I love selling. I'm a saleswoman. So we all are. We all are. You're a salesman, I'm a saleswoman. Like, it's so fall in love with the process of service and selling. Know that you're paid through people. That's not an ugly, bad concept. Because if you're serving and someone is looking for what you have as a service, they will pay you for that. You and this is important, right? So to think about that, it's so, so key is to really be thinking about what am I selling each day? How am I showing up and selling each day? A lot of people are waiting for it to be perfect before they start selling that thing. And I always say sell, then build. Sell the idea, then build it, right? That could be for something that's more like, okay, I really want to do this. Do I have buy-in of that? Go test your audience. If I were to bring this product out, I have this idea. Maybe you don't give away all of it, but you create this small little test group and you get those user feedback, testimonials. Like, would you try this? Like, this is a time to be creative. And you said something really, you said a lot of things that were really important. But the one thing landed on me is we with me is that you can always be looking at what other people are doing and it will actually steal your creativity.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

It there have you ever had times where you're scrolling and you haven't posted yet, but you're a business owner? That's when you know something's up.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

And you need to catch yourself on that. And that doesn't mean you need to create content in that day if you're depleted. It means, oh, go have a go rest, turn your camera off, get where you do get creative. Give yourself the permission to come back to what your product is. And then if you realize your lackluster in actually selling your product because you're not proud of that, that's where you focus your time in before you start to build a funnel, the website, all those things. You got to get solid on that.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Okay, I was your this is supposed to be your thing, but I was like, I just like it.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

It's not supposed to be my thing, it's our thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I know, but I just like it.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

I want to go back to you said sell, then build, but you didn't quickly go then market. Build is the most important step. Yeah, you can't market if you don't build. I I should air quotes be on TikTok every day talking about revenue brand and what's going on behind the scenes and trying to make my uh story relate, you know, making it about me, but I'm I I I should. I should be doing that. I know that.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Do you want to do that?

SPEAKER_02 21:09

I do, but I'm focused on our stuff and what we're gonna sell. And like clothing has seasons, like there's fall, winter 26 coming up where I know September 1st, there's a whole bunch of stuff we need to do, and it takes my work now. So I do feel guilty that I'm not face to camera enough and being like, here's why I'm building this brand. I know that I could sell a lot if I got a million views on something and I talked and I kept talking, which I know is what it would take to get that many views, but uh you know what? I'm also cool with not doing that right now because it's not what I need right now. I will I will need it at some point and I will leverage it when I have the time and I can go. I've never believed in a collection that we have. I'm pointing at my suitcase over here where there's samples in it. I've never believed this wholeheartedly in this collection. Now I'm getting on. And now I'm gonna talk about it. And now I'm gonna hold stuff up. And now I don't care whether everything's perfect. Because you know what is perfect? The stuff we're selling.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

And okay, you just like if you could put a bit so like, do you hear the difference in Kyle's voice? If he was getting on right now, haphazardly talking about it just to show up, just to do it, depleted. That's where the cre that's where creators and small business owners and founders get burnout from.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Because, but when you're like, oh no, this is the best thing ever, the passion you have, the magnetism, so he's building it. That and here's the coolest part it's it's in eight weeks. Yeah, people think, oh my god, I haven't put like we I have hardly posted in June on Instagram for me. Okay, because we're building Lumina, yeah, and I could cry. I can't wait to be like, oh my god, we did it. We're accredited, whatever that is. Like, and this is important. That doesn't mean what we're saying is the way you should do it. It's just giving this perspective and whether you need that permission to pause to build.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Take that pressure off yourself because you're like, it's exploding your code.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

You will explode. Kyle's ready to go with tick. Like, he's gonna do it when because you should see. He showed me the stuff for September. I'm like, I want to buy one, two, and three immediately. Like, add two cart.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

I could get all down that it took me two years to get here almost. I'm not. This is the process.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

This is the process, and we want you to fall in love with the process because if a lot of you are sitting there, and myself included, this is part of our calls every week. Being like, oh, we're not far enough along. You are you are if you are invested in what you're building right now, you're feeling this doing the thing, you're showing up, you're finding the right audience. A lot of people will say, This person didn't buy my thing, it's not good enough. Well, then you need to go to someone who will and what you believe in and start talking about that, and you will find your audience. But if you don't know you and you're not proud of what you're building, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Okay, and honestly, keep the funnels at the fair. We said we were going to the fair today. That's the only place they belong. Wizard of Oz and at the fair. And we're done. Perfect timing. Kim's got a call.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

I think it's that funnel she signed up for is now has her personal cell phone number.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

I'm not answering, but it's just that's the thing. Okay, one more, one more hot take. One more hot take on marketing.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

What do you think? From me?

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah. One more time.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

I think we covered the hot takes. Like we talked about that it's the product, it's process. Just just remember the farmer's market. And if you need to look at the person beside you and go, what are they doing? Then you need to level up. And there's got to be a creative way that you can go. I need to stand out. What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah, and that's important. What are you what do you need to do to level up? And if you're bored with your product, other people are bored with your products.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

And I'll tell you this, it's not a funnel and it's not a system.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

There's the last hot take.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, it's and I think this is really important. And I I and we want to invite you for conversation on this because if this leaves you feeling defeated or frustrated or like, shit, I just invested that much money in this and it's not really working. What is working, right? It's getting back to you. That's what we'll always ask you to get back to is what actually feels good in your body. Because if you believe in what you're selling, if you can put the humanness back in it in a world of AI, if you can show your heart, if you can show your vulnerability, you can show your courage, I will buy that all day long. You know, like that's the thing. It's just you need to remember who you are, why you're building what you're building, and just lean in on that. And build. And building.